[ZhangFei]

http://www.unitedsikhs.org/US_News/sikh-knife.ap.jpg

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - The RCMP say Amritdhari Sikhs will be allowed to wear kirpans into 2010 Winter Games venues. The 2010 Integrated Security Unit says it's developed guidelines in consultation with the Sikh community. RCMP say with few examples of the kirpan being used as a weapon, they don't expect any additional risk.

Those wearing a kirpan will have to inform venue security. The total length of the ceremonial sword won't be able to exceed seven and a half inches. As well, it will have to be worn under clothing and not be easily accessible.

source: http://www.news1130.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20091015_160628_10148

[2damaxmr2]

that is BS.

[MR_BIGGS]

that is BS.

Why is it BS?

[MG1]

You call that a knife? Now this, is a knife!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9gn6KLa5xtY/Smh1byWzcbI/AAAAAAAAEtU/23T3FC68qN8/s400/CrocodileDundeeWithKnife

[TRD Rs200]

They will still find a way!
Posted via RS Mobile

[unit]

i know its a religious thing, but have there been many related cases of these being used as weapons? do they have to be kept so sharp even though they arent to be used? should just make dull blunt ones :\

[greendb7]

why is this an exception? i thought it would be like ABSOLUTELY no weapons allowed, it's like saying "we'll let you have it if you promise not to use it"

[jtanner_]

^ True that,

must not be easily accessible.. simply upon entering maybe lol

[silk]

why not scan their head with metal detetor ? and shave their hairs on the face as penalty

[SaviorSelf_666]

why not scan their head with metal detetor ? and shave their hairs on the face as penalty

Your fucking stupid. Your going to disgrace them and their beliefs by doing that.

[MR_BIGGS]

Your fucking stupid. Your going to disgrace them and their beliefs by doing that.

+1. But this is the Internet..shit breeds stupidity..

[silk]

Your fucking stupid. Your going to disgrace them and their beliefs by doing that.

that's why i called it a penalty, idiot....

[shenmecar]

lame...............

[ajax]

You do realise that there are thousands of people at work, in malls and at school wearing one underneat their clothing. It is not a weapon, but simply a sign of their religion. My grandmother wears one, and I have only seen it a handful of times. This really not be a concern to anyone considering the number of attacks there have been using a Kirpan. Google it and let me know if you find more than 3.

[GLOW]

must be worn under clothing...wouldn't that be like a concealed weapon?

i wonder what will happen if someone abuses this rule and uses it as a weapon during the olympics. seems like the authorities are playing with fire on this one

[LikeASir]

i know its a religious thing, but have there been many related cases of these being used as weapons? do they have to be kept so sharp even though they arent to be used? should just make dull blunt ones :\

they are dull...my mom wears one and i bet a butter knife is probably sharper than it

[MR_BIGGS]

Some are duller than the posts in this thread...

[ZhangFei]

someone answer this:

how do sikh's board planes then? do they wear the kirpan on board? or do they put it inside their the luggage? if its in the luggage then.. won't they find the kirpan through the x-ray??

[ajax]

someone answer this:

how do sikh's board planes then? do they wear the kirpan on board? or do they put it inside their the luggage? if its in the luggage then.. won't they find the kirpan through the x-ray??

They put it in the check in luggage, like the big suitcases and let them know I guess.

[ws6ta]

the kirpan's that the average joe wears is so dull that you can't even cut an apple with it. people carry pocket knives all the time I don't see what the issue is. there is no fucken way that an average person has a kirpan as sharp as the one that is shown in the picture.

[ws6ta]

someone answer this:

how do sikh's board planes then? do they wear the kirpan on board? or do they put it inside their the luggage? if its in the luggage then.. won't they find the kirpan through the x-ray??

a lot just want to avoid the hassle and wear a really tiny one around their neck and put the actual one inside their suitcase.

[Harvey Specter]

why not scan their head with metal detetor ? and shave their hairs on the face as penalty

Why don't you go find a random Sikh guy and do this and see what happens to you tough guy.


On a side note, Punjabi will be the 4th most spoken langauge in Canada by 2011. It'll pass Italian and German.

[ZhangFei]

what is the 3rd?

1st is english obviously
2nd is french?
3rd?

[Harvey Specter]

Chinese.

[El Bastardo]

I could see this being an issue if we didn't have a significant sikh population but here in Canada we've made accommodations for sikh police officers and motorcycle riders based on their traditional wear. Those are permanent conditions.

The olympics will last a few weeks at best.

With the Americans lending their security expertise in a post Atlanta Olympics and 9/11 world I really doubt that there'll be many problems at all.

[lacubrious1]

You call that a knife? Now this, is a knife!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9gn6KLa5xtY/Smh1byWzcbI/AAAAAAAAEtU/23T3FC68qN8/s400/CrocodileDundeeWithKnife

thats not a knife, THIS is a knife http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/spoon.jpg

[StylinRed]

so i guess i can dress up as a sikh if i was planning on stabbing someone at an olympic venue

[El Bastardo]

If I was attending the olympics and wanted to stab someone bad enough, I'd find a way. kirpan or no kirpan.

[Rx harnek]

The kirpans are not dull if u were sikh u would know that if they are unsheathed they are meant to see blood im sikh too just get the facts rite they are not dull they are kept in good condition and they shouldnt be unsheathed for any reason either

[Rx harnek]

any why does it matter if we allowed to have kirpans its not like were gonna walk in and start using its not a really a urgent and dangerous and stupid thing the pigs are doing

[minoru_tanaka]

You do realise that there are thousands of people at work, in malls and at school wearing one underneat their clothing. It is not a weapon, but simply a sign of their religion. My grandmother wears one, and I have only seen it a handful of times. This really not be a concern to anyone considering the number of attacks there have been using a Kirpan. Google it and let me know if you find more than 3.

Pretty sure it's used to stab muslims. And in today's society the muslims are the ones we are worried about.

Yesterday the sikhs protected India from the muslims and today they will protect Vancouver from the Muslims. I for one thank you Sikhs!

[StylinRed]

what hole do all the lurkers come out of...

[ilvtofu]

k where do i sign up?

[ws6ta]

The kirpans are not dull if u were sikh u would know that if they are unsheathed they are meant to see blood im sikh too just get the facts rite they are not dull they are kept in good condition and they shouldnt be unsheathed for any reason either

you're a goof. the general public wears DULL kirpans. you want me to post pictures of it? i'm talking about general public not people that go out of their way to have sharp kirpan's.

i can take a kirpan and rub it across my hand and it won't cut me. the pocket knife i have in my car if I rubbed it across my hand I'll need to get stiches. the kirpan a normal person wears is not capable of killing anyone. there are much easier ways to stab/kill people then a kirpan.

[Harvey Specter]

what hole do all the lurkers come out of...

I think most of these "new" members popping up in threads are members on here who have 2 accounts because they're too afraid to post using their real account.

[MR_BIGGS]

I think most of these "new" members popping up in threads are members on here who have 2 accounts because they're too afraid to post using their real account.

LOL...I agree.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj94/kellyjpk/lurkers-1.jpg

[nack]

thats not a knife, THIS is a knife http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/spoon.jpg

no man, this is THE knife http://news.filefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/lightsaber.jpg

[TheKingdom2000]

that is effed up..

what if my religion said i could carry around a religious gun around??

just because my religion dictates something doesn't mean it should be allowed everywhere...


This could get very dangerous.
i'm not saying it will be dangerous because real sikhs will abuse this. but the people who pretend to be sikh could take advantage of this...
very scary imo.

[JHatta]

fucking sikhs

i should be able to carry a gun

[azzurro32]

I viewed a home the other day and the lady showing it had one attached to her pants. Caught me offguard cause I never really seen one before. No big deal. But, the whole time I had amusing thoughts in my head like it would be funny if I had a gun in a sling like a cowboy !
Posted via RS Mobile

[Rx harnek]

Hey im just throwin my opinion out there which is that the sikhs are aloud with kirpans in the olympic venues with reason tho like guys in fukin ed hardy and CA show up with 3 feet long kirpans there has to be reason u know like im sikh i have a very small kirpan that i got wen i was young im just sayin there has gotta be limits do u guys agree???

[Rx harnek]

and this is my first account not tryin to start shit here just throwin out opinions like i said

[MR_BIGGS]

Hey im just throwin my opinion out there which is that the sikhs are aloud with kirpans in the olympic venues with reason tho like guys in fukin ed hardy and CA show up with 3 feet long kirpans there has to be reason u know like im sikh i have a very small kirpan that i got wen i was young im just sayin there has gotta be limits do u guys agree???

I don't think anyone will agree or disagree with you because no one knows what that fuck you are trying to say! Please articulate your thoughts more clearly..:thumbsup:

[mickz]

thats not a knife, THIS is a knife http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/spoon.jpg

Ah, I see you've played knives and spoons before.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/knifey-spoony-6582.jpg

[ajax]

Ah, I see you've played knives and spoons before.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/knifey-spoony-6582.jpg

Fucker! You beat me to it!:D

[Rx harnek]

Im saying they should be allowed to wear kirpans within reason there i said it on my other post

[Manic!]

Sikhs have been wearing kirpans to sporting events for years. I don't see the problem with them wearing them at the Olympics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJKS1KQ2d1w&feature=related

[minoru_tanaka]

Let's just say that we make plenty of concessions for Sikhs as is and allowing them to carry a weapon around is just going way too dam far. Saying it's for peace and self defense is a bullshit line cause peaceful people don't carry weapons with them. Besides, muslims have AKs now. What's your kirpan going to do against an AK?

[El Bastardo]

Let's just say that we make plenty of concessions for Sikhs as is and allowing them to carry a weapon around is just going way too dam far. Saying it's for peace and self defense is a bullshit line cause peaceful people don't carry weapons with them. Besides, muslims have AKs now. What's your kirpan going to do against an AK?

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

[unit]

i dont really see it as a big deal.
sikhs are everywhere, and ive never heard of a stabbing with a kirpan.
if even once such incident happened in the GVRD it would be instantly banned in public.
how many times have u been in the bus, in a mall, on the street, etc, just feet away from a guy carrying one? its not threatening imo.

[tiger_handheld]

I think most of these "new" members popping up in threads are members on here who have 2 accounts because they're too afraid to post using their real account.

thought they had a 1 account limit which was forced by ips? no?

[Blue_StreakR]

That is Canada for you. They have to be "Politically Correct" about absolutely everything. They gotta make everyone happy.

With that being said, I have no actual issues about this. I have never heard of an incident in North America of someone using a Kirpan as a weapon against another human being.

Also, you can't just say you are Sikh and be allowed in with one. There are a few requirements such as your attire, to have uncut hair, wear a turban etc etc

[Blue_StreakR]

i dont really see it as a big deal.
sikhs are everywhere, and ive never heard of a stabbing with a kirpan.
if even once such incident happened in the GVRD it would be instantly banned in public.
how many times have u been in the bus, in a mall, on the street, etc, just feet away from a guy carrying one? its not threatening imo.

Actually if there was a stabbing in public they still couldn't ban them, as one could argue that it would infringe on there rights under the Charter. In an Olympic Venue however it is Privately Run so they can set whatever rules they want. If it happened on Olympic Grounds then they could ban them if they wanted too.

[m4k4v4li]

in gr 8 i was playing basketball with my fat hindu friend who has a huge turban

i ripped it off by accident when i was coming down and he went ape shit and tried to kick my ass HAHHAH hes so fat like prob 230lbs 5'10 and he tried kicking me

[van_driver]

Pretty sure it's used to stab muslims. And in today's society the muslims are the ones we are worried about.

Yesterday the sikhs protected India from the muslims and today they will protect Vancouver from the Muslims. I for one thank you Sikhs!

Let's just say that we make plenty of concessions for Sikhs as is and allowing them to carry a weapon around is just going way too dam far. Saying it's for peace and self defense is a bullshit line cause peaceful people don't carry weapons with them. Besides, muslims have AKs now. What's your kirpan going to do against an AK?

WOW are you for real?

[Harvey Specter]

FYI Hindu's don't wear turbans.


This subject does have some minor concerns but the problem, like with any news story related to the Punjabi community, is that some people love to vent and rant their racist views and not talk about the subject at hand and blow the entire subject out of proportion. It's a shame that such a minor issue is been turned into such a major issue.

[MDMA]

this is the most unnecessary thread i have ever seen on RS

[Manic!]

If you want to ban knifes at sporting events what not at other public places. I don't see anyone wanting to ban knifes at restaurants or grocery stores. Costco sells knife sets right in the open and it would take me like 30 seconds to take one out of the package and stab some one.

http://content.costco.ca/Images/Content/Product/141737c.jpg

[minoru_tanaka]

Actually if there was a stabbing in public they still couldn't ban them, as one could argue that it would infringe on there rights under the Charter.

Maybe we should allow honour killings cause we are infringing on their rights to protect their daughters from talking with the horrible gora. Doesn't our Charter protect their rights to protect their family honour?

Give an inch take a mile. If you let people carry weapons, next they'll want it to be acceptable to use them. Seriously it 300 years ago and it was practical then. If muslims were invading India today a Guru would be telling sikhs to carry a holy rifle and if it happens in 300 years maybe a holy phaser but this is Vancouver, Canada. Maybe I should get to carry a samurai sword around

[minoru_tanaka]

If you want to ban knifes at sporting events what not at other public places. I don't see anyone wanting to ban knifes at restaurants or grocery stores. Costco sells knife sets right in the open and it would take me like 30 seconds to take one out of the package and stab some one.

http://content.costco.ca/Images/Content/Product/141737c.jpg

OK then. Sikhs can bring kirpans to watch figure skating if they are selling them or using them to cut up their hot dogs.

[threezero]

People are ranting because its unfair. knife, ceremonial or not are permitted for one special group of ppl. imagine going into the olympic and you have nail clipper in your purse or whatever and the security take it from it or you can't go in, than the sikh guy beside u walk straight through with a knife on the belt.

like somebody said before, the kirpan are usually dull but it is a knife still and can be sharpen if wanted to. I can totally see how this rule can be taken advantage by protential shit starters. sure you must have certain defining characteristic to be a sikh, should a security detain and question someone they feel is a fake? if they are allow to is that not discrimination base on religion? How will one prove they are in fact sikh? is there some kind of official document to prove that? With more than 300 people per hours going through the gate, how likely is a fake sikh carrying sharp kirpan looking to start shit going be questioned by the already stressed out security guards?


not being racist or anything, looking at this strictly through a security point of view

[Black SC2]

Let's hope this means the Scottish in the crowd can wear their Sgian Dubhs without reprisal then.

http://www.jarodkearney.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sgian1.jpg

[Manic!]

Let's hope this means the Scottish in the crowd can wear their Sgian Dubhs without reprisal then.

http://www.jarodkearney.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sgian1.jpg

When did being Scottish count as a religion?

[Black SC2]

When did being Scottish count as a religion?

When did being religious count as an excuse to be armed in public?

The Sgian Dubh is traditional Scottish wear. So why would the tradition of one group of people be more important than that of any other?

[minoru_tanaka]

The Sgian Dubh is traditional Scottish wear. So why would the tradition of one group of people be more important than that of any other?

The reason is because one of them is Sikh, that's why it is more important.

[ZhangFei]

When did being Scottish count as a religion?

when you are a presbyterian

[maxxxboost]

I don't see a problem with it now, but once an incident happens with the Kirpans, that is when society is going to go ape-shit!


Just pray that the person beside you with the Kirpan is not going to f you up during the events.

[Manic!]

Just pray that the person beside you with the Kirpan is not going to f you up during the events.

I guess you should also pray the guy eating a steak beside you at the Keg doesn't f you up with a steak knife.:rolleyes:

http://salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/840529R.jpg

[Harvey Specter]

http://theanteheroes.com/Humor/MassFacepalm.jpg

[ZhangFei]

I guess you should also pray the guy eating a steak beside you at the Keg doesn't f you up with a steak knife.:rolleyes:

http://salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/840529R.jpg

lol. for the most part sikhs won't go to the keg because they don't eat beef steaks. it offends them.

[azzurro32]

lol. for the most part sikhs won't go to the keg because they don't eat beef steaks. it offends them.

Perfect. For anyone who has a serious issue with this and feels it's unfair, strap an 8oz steak to your belt for retaliation
Posted via RS Mobile

[Great68]

I find it funny that people use the argument that just because they haven't heard of anyone getting stabbed by a kirpan in the past means it should be OK to wear it.

How many people heard of box cutters being used to hijack planes before 9/11?

[7seven]

People are ranting because its unfair. knife, ceremonial or not are permitted for one special group of ppl. imagine going into the olympic and you have nail clipper in your purse or whatever and the security take it from it or you can't go in, than the sikh guy beside u walk straight through with a knife on the belt.

like somebody said before, the kirpan are usually dull but it is a knife still and can be sharpen if wanted to. I can totally see how this rule can be taken advantage by protential shit starters. sure you must have certain defining characteristic to be a sikh, should a security detain and question someone they feel is a fake? if they are allow to is that not discrimination base on religion? How will one prove they are in fact sikh? is there some kind of official document to prove that? With more than 300 people per hours going through the gate, how likely is a fake sikh carrying sharp kirpan looking to start shit going be questioned by the already stressed out security guards?


not being racist or anything, looking at this strictly through a security point of view

I tend to agree with this, allowing sharpened kirpans into Olympic venues could be a potential problem with people looking to start trouble. The Olympics in Vancouver could be a likely target not just for terrorist, but more likely the anti-Olympic protesters we have locally. What is to stop a Sikh member of these groups or someone pretending to be Sikh from carrying a sharpened Kirpan with the intention starting trouble and using it. I don't think anyone really has an issue with practicing Sikh's carrying them, its more the trouble makers looking for an excuse.

I have worked private security at several high profile events in California and the compromise we have allowed for Sikhs to carry Kirpans into these events are that they either must be dull or they must be in sheathes that are glued that make it impossible to unsheath. I believe the state of New York also has this rule about carrying Kirpans into Schools and Federal buildings which was accepted by local Sikh groups. Maybe it would be best to adopt the same policy for the 2010 Olympics? Would you think local Sikh groups in Vancouver find that acceptable?

[91civicZC]

Once again, Canada pulls out the “white guilt” we seem to love. You’re not a white male 25-60? Well do whatever you like then, just don’t call me racist!

The issue here isn’t fairness or racism. Its safety. The Olympics are not a public event, you need to buy tickets for it. You are warned there are no weapons of any kind allowed in the venues. By having a knife of any kind you are violating that rule. No one is banning Sikhs from attending. As a Sikh it is up to you to decide what’s more important. 2010 bobsledding, or your ceremonial knife. Why is that a problem? I’m sure most Sikhs would have no problem making the decision that is best for them, and what works with there own lifestyle.

The same argument has been made over an over again. Take bike helmets, motorcycle or otherwise. If you wear ceremonial headgear of any kind of religion, you are taking that upon yourself, and it should be realized you won’t be able to ride a bike because we have helmet laws. But Canada caves, and makes one group of people exempt over others.

Here in Canada, you have freedom of religion, for all people. That’s a great thing! It becomes not such a great thing when any group of people seems to exploit this at the cost of safety and reason of others. Freedom of religion means you are free to choose. Those choices may lead you to not being able to attend certain events or be involved with certain activities. But it’s still your choice. Why is my safety and the safety of my friends and family and the mercy of ones groups freedom of choice in religion? Seems odd doesn’t it?

Hopefully one day Canada drops the Ultra PC BS.

As a side note, no, I don’t think any Sikhs will be pulling the knife out and stabbing anyone, but that’s really not the point. Weapons are banned for a reason, the safety of everyone. These are private events on a world stage. It might not take much to set someone off, Sikh or not.

[ajax]

The issue here isn’t fairness or racism. Its safety. The Olympics are not a public event, you need to buy tickets for it. You are warned there are no weapons of any kind allowed in the venues. By having a knife of any kind you are violating that rule.

But in true form, the Kirpan is not a weapon. That's where I think the misunderstanding is.

[tool001]

Chinese.

chinese is not a language..

.....besides isn't it suppose to symbolize that you are baptized(for lack of a better word) sikh or something

stupid useless thread anyways...as obivously,,,, govnments in many countries have done more research (than some dumbasses posting on this thread) about this and letting people wear it for religious reason.

[Brianrietta]

But in true form, the Kirpan is not a weapon. That's where I think the misunderstanding is.

True form? In a very real physical sense, the Kirpan is indeed a weapon. What exactly would you classify an iron blade say 9 inches long as? A paper cutter? (Also considered a weapon, by the way.)

I mean I fully understand that most observant Sikhs don't consider it a weapon, but as a religious sacrament. That being said, even a dull hunting knife, is still a hunting knife, and considered a weapon even if it's not sharp. While I'm not particularly religious myself, I personally have no problems with Sikhs carrying a Kirpan, however to create a safer environment I would propose that for events like the Olympics or in situations where carrying a kirpan is questioned, that there must be some form of compromise. Like what 7seven said, there are areas of the world where kirpans are carried while being riveted into their sheath, greatly reducing the risk that it could be used by them, OR by someone else, against them.

[91civicZC]

But in true form, the Kirpan is not a weapon. That's where I think the misunderstanding is.

From the reading I’ve done, it seems like it is mostly an idea. A reminder of several different teachings. But certainly it also seems to play the role of “defensive” weapon, to protect ones self or others from violence in some of the stuff I read. Its all off the internets, so who knows what’s real and what’s not. I’m not a Sikh, so I have no idea.

The point is, its still a knife. No matter what its function to a Sikh is.

I understand that the Sikhs don’t necessarily view it as a weapon (even though it is, kind of like saying a gun isn’t a gun unless someone shooting it). But is IS a knife, and that’s the issue. The potential for it to be used as a weapon is much greater than other religious objects. Trying to Shank someone with a Jewish kippa probably wont do much good.

[3seriesBeeM]

I dont have a problem with sikhs carrying the knife. But I do think there should be some kind of restrictions like the knife has to be dull or it has to be sheathed.

[MR_BIGGS]

I dont have a problem with sikhs carrying the knife. But I do think there should be some kind of restrictions like the knife has to be dull or it has to be sheathed.

To ensure the screening process runs smoothly, the new guidelines require anyone wearing a kirpan to inform security personnel prior to being screened at venues, and to meet the following stipulations:

1) All articles of faith must be worn.
2) The maximum TOTAL length of the kirpan, including the sheath may not exceed 7.5 inches with a blade of not more than four inches and a handle of two inches or less.
3) The kirpan must be worn in keeping with Sikh traditions including being secured into its sheath, attached to a fabric belt and worn across the torso.
4) The kirpan must be worn under clothing and not easily accessible.
If these stipulations are not met, the V2010 ISU reserves the right to refuse admittance.

[Black SC2]

To ensure the screening process runs smoothly, the new guidelines require anyone wearing a kirpan to inform security personnel prior to being screened at venues, and to meet the following stipulations:

1) All articles of faith must be worn.
2) The maximum TOTAL length of the kirpan, including the sheath may not exceed 7.5 inches with a blade of not more than four inches and a handle of two inches or less.
3) The kirpan must be worn in keeping with Sikh traditions including being secured into its sheath, attached to a fabric belt and worn across the torso.
4) The kirpan must be worn under clothing and not easily accessible.
If these stipulations are not met, the V2010 ISU reserves the right to refuse admittance.

Now that sounds pretty logical.

[acurael]

get over it...nothing is going to happen. If you are so scared and think you are gonna be stabbed to death or the whole olympics stopped because of "terrorism" with a small kirpan then you shouldnt leave your house ever. Stay inside and watch it on TV.

I think the Olympics commitee has thought this through and there are already stipulations in place to ensure that people that are "non-religious" dont take advantage of the rules.

There is enough security there that even if somehow the kirpan is used (which it will not) the person would be stopped. You guys complaining are acting like one kirpan can kill a whole bunch of people like a gun can.

Get a life. This is Canada and this is why Canada is a great place to live - multiculturalism. Not like the States - although we still have some ignorant people around - thats for sure.

[Bouncing Bettys]

I remember this being an issue reguarding public schools back when I was in high school over a decade ago. I'm reading here the very same arguments for and against. In high school I was against the decision to allow them to wear the kirpan in schools largely because I was ignorant of the Sikh religion, the use of the kirpan, and immediately saw kirpan = knife = weapon. I never even made that connection with the pocket knife I had attatched to my keychain that I brought to school everyday. Some years of growing up, educating myself, and getting to know a few practicing Sikhs has helped changed my stance on the issue.

[ajax]

To ensure the screening process runs smoothly, the new guidelines require anyone wearing a kirpan to inform security personnel prior to being screened at venues, and to meet the following stipulations:

1) All articles of faith must be worn.
2) The maximum TOTAL length of the kirpan, including the sheath may not exceed 7.5 inches with a blade of not more than four inches and a handle of two inches or less.
3) The kirpan must be worn in keeping with Sikh traditions including being secured into its sheath, attached to a fabric belt and worn across the torso.
4) The kirpan must be worn under clothing and not easily accessible.
If these stipulations are not met, the V2010 ISU reserves the right to refuse admittance.

This makes sense, and is exactly what is needed. I believe it would be a shame if they weren't allowed to wear it, as it's importantance is parallel to that of wearing a Kippah if you are Jewish.

[minoru_tanaka]

This makes sense, and is exactly what is needed. I believe it would be a shame if they weren't allowed to wear it, as it's importantance is parallel to that of wearing a Kippah if you are Jewish.

Sorry but Kippah been around for thousands of years. Kirpan a couple of hundred years.

[asahai69]

you people are fucked up. theres a million other things you should be more concerned about than a kirpan. i could do more damage throwing a rock than a kirpan could do.

[minoru_tanaka]

you people are fucked up. theres a million other things you should be more concerned about than a kirpan. i could do more damage throwing a rock than a kirpan could do.

Probably wouldn't let you bring a rock to olympic events either

[asahai69]

Probably wouldn't let you bring a rock to olympic events either

There has to be rocks on the ground that could be thrown. Or atleast a snowball
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[GLOW]

and security would probably be on yours ass if they saw you carrying one around.

[7seven]

and security would probably be on yours ass if they saw you carrying one around.

Maybe he can pass it off as his pet rock???
http://z.about.com/d/familycrafts/1/0/d/O/2/petrock6.jpg

[shenmecar]

Maybe he can pass it off as his pet rock???


I haven't had a pet rock since I was 10!

[GLOW]

Maybe he can pass it off as his pet rock???
http://z.about.com/d/familycrafts/1/0/d/O/2/petrock6.jpg

Genius!

[ajax]

Sorry but Kippah been around for thousands of years. Kirpan a couple of hundred years.

What's that got to do with its importance? A religion is a religion. That's all. It has been practiced for over 300 years. Is the cross irrelevant in this case because Christianity is not as old as Judaism?

[will068]

What's that got to do with its importance? A religion is a religion. That's all. It has been practiced for over 300 years. Is the cross irrelevant in this case because Christianity is not as old as Judaism?

I believe it's one of the attributes why there are disagreements with this issue. Other attributes include the the magnitude of people from different nationalities and ethnicity that follow this religion. In western society, religions that have an ethnic majority base are scrutinized more so.

[minoru_tanaka]

What's that got to do with its importance? A religion is a religion. That's all. It has been practiced for over 300 years. Is the cross irrelevant in this case because Christianity is not as old as Judaism?

Consider that there were 9 Gurus before who did not think it was necessary for everyone to carry a knife. Can nobody see that it was a policy that was implemented for practical reasons as the sikhs were under constant attack?

300 years ago steam engines were invented, electricity was being investigated and people had long been shooting each other with guns. That's just too late to still be making claims of mysticism.

What if tomorrow a Muslim leader says that every muslim should carry a loaded AK for self defense and the defense of innocent people? In the future do we have to respect their religious rights to carry AKs to olympic events?

[ctsport]

get over it...nothing is going to happen. If you are so scared and think you are gonna be stabbed to death or the whole olympics stopped because of "terrorism" with a small kirpan then you shouldnt leave your house ever. Stay inside and watch it on TV.

I think the Olympics commitee has thought this through and there are already stipulations in place to ensure that people that are "non-religious" dont take advantage of the rules.

There is enough security there that even if somehow the kirpan is used (which it will not) the person would be stopped. You guys complaining are acting like one kirpan can kill a whole bunch of people like a gun can.

Get a life. This is Canada and this is why Canada is a great place to live - multiculturalism. Not like the States - although we still have some ignorant people around - thats for sure.

Haha, it must be the Surrey in you.

1. People in contention are not asserting the Kirpan to be a weapon of mass destruction. The argument is-why has a select group of people been given the right to carry such a weapon while everyone else is bared from doing so. It's not like its a staff, its a deadly weapon. Since a subset of society has been given this right, then it is only fair that I or any other citizen should have the "right" to carry our own "sacred" weapons by merely claiming it to be in "our beliefs" to do so. :rolleyes:

2. How are the security guards going identify the "religious" from those who are in-disguise (possibly with the intention to harm)? By asking them? By giving them a questionnaire? And aren't the terrorists the "most religious" ones? LOL

3. Millions of people will be watching the games. You seriously believe that there's going to be "enough security" to watch over every single person at the venues? Its pretty easy to think of a scenario in which a confrontation takes place involving someone with a kirpan or someone taking the kirpan from some-other-person and severely injuring several people before security reaches them-if at all.

4. The ignorant person is you. Multiculturalism does not mean blind acceptance. Multiculturalism works only if its within the confines of the Canadian context, otherwise you get anarchy. Cultures around the world still routinely burn brides to death as a legitimate form of divorce. There are cultures that mutilate girls' vagina's to keep them from "indecency." According to your logic, we should turn a blind eye to such crimes if they were to occur in Canada because "it's multicultural time baby and you're ignorant if you think otherwise."

:D

[Mephology]

in gr 8 i was playing basketball with my fat hindu friend who has a huge turban

i ripped it off by accident when i was coming down and he went ape shit and tried to kick my ass HAHHAH hes so fat like prob 230lbs 5'10 and he tried kicking me

Hey, I saw this happen when I was in gr 8. Was his name Mandeep and at a school in North Delta?

[Mephology]

Haha, it must be the Surrey in you.

.................


calm down...

[asahai69]

wow. i always knew there were dumb fucks on this website. but this is on a whole new level. how may sikhs wearing kirpans do you actually think will attend these games. sikhs that wear kirpans are a small minority of a minority. lol. u morons are acting like these guys are gonna be everywhere u go. honestly. nobody i can think of in my family wears one. none of my friends parents wear one. this is such a non issue that i dont even know why its news.

[Brianrietta]

wow. i always knew there were dumb fucks on this website. but this is on a whole new level. how may sikhs wearing kirpans do you actually think will attend these games. sikhs that wear kirpans are a small minority of a minority. lol. u morons are acting like these guys are gonna be everywhere u go. honestly. nobody i can think of in my family wears one. none of my friends parents wear one. this is such a non issue that i dont even know why its news.

If so few Sihks wear one, then why is it so important that our society should go out of it's way to cater to those few that do?

[asahai69]

If so few Sihks wear one, then why is it so important that our society should go out of it's way to cater to those few that do?
Why does it piss people off if so few wear it. And half the time u don't see it.
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[silk]

i changed my POV on this....from nagative to supportive
there are risks for any other things, just let it be...

if its happening, its bond to happen

why not step back and relax a bit people ..

[Great68]

Come join my religion!

The sacred symbol of my religion is the desert eagle, and all in my faith MUST wear one on their person at all times!

If anyone should contest our wearing of the sacred symbol we shall say that they are contradicting our freedom of religion by the charter of rights and freedoms!

[asahai69]

Come join my religion!

The sacred symbol of my religion is the desert eagle, and all in my faith MUST wear one on their person at all times!

If anyone should contest our wearing of the sacred symbol we shall say that they are contradicting our freedom of religion by the charter of rights and freedoms!

Way to trivialize the significance of the kirpan. Dipshit
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[Brianrietta]

Way to trivialize the significance of the kirpan. Dipshit
sikhs that wear kirpans are a small minority of a minority.
honestly. nobody i can think of in my family wears one. none of my friends parents wear one.

Sounds pretty significant to me...

[Great68]

Way to trivialize the significance of the kirpan. Dipshit
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Way to trivialize my right to equality under the charter, asshole.

[asahai69]

Way to trivialize my right to equality under the charter, asshole.

If u feel so bad about it. Take it up with the supreme court. Retard :)
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[Death2Theft]

Why would sikh's be intrested in seeing the olympics in the first place? I mean are there any competitors also wearing a turban?

[asahai69]

Sounds pretty significant to me...

I am not baptized. Thats why I don't wear one. That does not mean its not a part of my religion
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[J____]

People are ranting because its unfair. knife, ceremonial or not are permitted for one special group of ppl. imagine going into the olympic and you have nail clipper in your purse or whatever and the security take it from it or you can't go in, than the sikh guy beside u walk straight through with a knife on the belt.



Life is unfair. You can say their religion allows them to carry a 'weapon' in this case that others cant, but they're religion also prevents them from enjoying many things that we can. I dont see them complaining and asking for equality. And besides i doubt any sikh would even consider disgracing their whole religion and people just to use this as a chance to attack someone at the olympics.

[J____]

Sorry but Kippah been around for thousands of years. Kirpan a couple of hundred years.

your point being? If i'm older than you are, does this mean i deserve to live and you should be killed?

[Manic!]

Why would sikh's be intrested in seeing the olympics in the first place? I mean are there any competitors also wearing a turban?

Guess we shouldn't watch hockey either.


I thought team Canada represented all of Canada not just the white people of Canada.

[ajax]

Wow, the ignorance is off the charts in this thread. Here, allow me to educate you on the significance of the Kirpan

Kirpan Strapped sword - This small sword is a defensive sidearm with it's use only allowed in the act of self defense, and the protection of others. As such, it stands for showing bravery and protecting the innocent/weak. Sikhs carry this beside their waist and are expected to wear it at all times, just as a police officer is expected to wear a public-defensive weapon at all times. In Sikhism, the carrying and use of this Kirpan is 100% synonymous with a police officer's given power to carry and use a weapon, as the reasons are entirely selfless, for the protection of all who need it regardless of race or caste. It also stands to always remind the Sikh carrier of the meaning behind it, as a tool in the safety of all, and their personal duties and responsibility as a Sikh in the message of peace.

If you click on the link and actually read, you will see that a baptized Sikh does not just carry around a knife. It's just a small part of the bigger picture. Also, the number of Sikhs who wear a Kirpan is probably well below 20%. So here let me do some logical math for you.

Number of Sikhs in Vancouver(2001)=2.8% (In this case, I'll estimate that it is 4% now.)
Percentage of Sikhs who wear a Kirpan=15%(Again, estimate from Google research)
Seating Capacity of GM Place for a hockey game=18,810

So if GM place is to scale with Vancvouer, out of all the people watching in GM Place, the number of Sikhs will be 752.4.
112.86 will be wearing a Kirpan.
Now, how many of those Sikhs do you think will be wanting to pull out their Kirpan and attack all those around them for no apparent reason? Please let me know, with information backing it up.

Sikhs have earned the right to wear the Kirpan. That's what all of you are failing to understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver#Religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_k%27s#Kirpan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Place
http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enCA288CA288&q=percentage+of+sikhs+who+wear+kirpan

[ctsport]

Way to trivialize the significance of the kirpan. Dipshit
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Haha pathetic.

Hey dumbass, if you want a debate you have to actually come up with a decent argument. Unfortunately for you pea-brain,you seem to lack the mental faculties to so.

You = FAIL

[ctsport]

Life is unfair. You can say their religion allows them to carry a 'weapon' in this case that others cant, but they're religion also prevents them from enjoying many things that we can. I dont see them complaining and asking for equality. And besides i doubt any sikh would even consider disgracing their whole religion and people just to use this as a chance to attack someone at the olympics.

OMG you really don't understand logic do you?

1. Their religion does not ALLOW them anything, at least not in Canada. It may be part of their religion but religion does not give you special privileges (like carrying a weapon). They should not have the right to carry a Kirpan if everyone else is bared from doing so period. First and foremost, its not an issue of safety but of EQUAL RIGHTS.

"The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law"

2. I eat mostly a plant-based diet because it is in "my belief" that such a diet leads to better health. Because of "my beliefs" I don't get to enjoy many kinds of foods that I would like. The DIFFERENCE is that this is SELF-IMPOSED. It does not affect nor TRAMPLE on other people's rights. What part of this do you not understand? LOL

3. Are you saying that 100% of religious people are non-violent and aren't susceptible to the follies of the human condition? Do they not get angry? Do they not get into confrontations? I would argue religious people are MORE dangerous than non-religious people. Read newspapers much? Israeli/Palestinian Confilct, India/Pakistan disputes over Kashmir, America's Holy War in the Middle-East. LOL

You also conveniently fail to mention the very possible scenario in which someone seizes a kirpan from a carrier and in doing so attacks someone else. It is the same reason guns are outlawed. Its common sense that many gun-owners are well trained and are responsible, but what happens if some-other-person gets hold of said gun? It is thus for the benefit of everyone if weapons are outlawed (which they are in Canada) even if it may be of some small nuisance to a small number of people.

[asahai69]

Haha pathetic.

Hey dumbass, if you want a debate you have to actually come up with a decent argument. Unfortunately for you pea-brain,you seem to lack the mental faculties to so.

You = FAIL

Have you ever seen a real kirpan. That is worn daily. Up close in person?
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[ajax]

You also conveniently fail to mention the very possible scenario in which someone seizes a kirpan from a carrier and in doing so attacks someone else. It is the same reason guns are outlawed.

Actually, the Kirpan is worn underneath your clothing 90% of the time, and 99% of the time you're out in public. It's going to be pretty tough to get underneath someones clothes, unsheath the Kirpan and then go on your violent spree.

[GLOW]

Have you ever seen a real kirpan. That is worn daily. Up close in person?
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is it similar in size and design to a boning knife?

[asahai69]

is it similar in size and design to a boning knife?

its thicker. but most of the time the blade is duller than the lip of a tea cup

[Revive]

i know its a religious thing, but have there been many related cases of these being used as weapons? do they have to be kept so sharp even though they arent to be used? should just make dull blunt ones :\

I don't know where you get your info from, but they are NOT SHARP, but rather very dull. Get your head out of your ass before making a comment.

[asahai69]

I don't know where you get your info from, but they are NOT SHARP, but rather very dull. Get your head out of your ass before making a comment.

i can see where some of these people are coming from. they are not really too enlightened as to why the kirpan is worn and how much it actually means to the people wearing it. its like asking a Christan to remove his cross or asking a person who practices Judaism to remove his kippah. its just too bad alot of people actually see this as a weapon (which its not) and not for what it actually is. a religious symbol.

alot of you that dont really understand what its for should really read up on what it actually means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan
take 10 minutes out. read it and come back here if you feel the same way

[GLOW]

i can see where some of these people are coming from. they are not really too enlightened as to why the kirpan is worn and how much it actually means to the people wearing it. its like asking a Christan to remove his cross or asking a person who practices Judaism to remove his kippah. its just too bad alot of people actually see this as a weapon (which its not) and not for what it actually is. a religious symbol.

alot of you that dont really understand what its for should really read up on what it actually means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan
take 10 minutes out. read it and come back here if you feel the same way

the idea of riveting the blade in to the sheath stated in wiki is a creative idea to balance fear of it being pulled out and also demenstrating one's faith.

[Harvey Specter]

This is a quote from an article posted last week about a failed Kirpan bill in California which would have made it a requirement for law enforcement officials to learn about Sikhs and the kirpan in California;

The POST Commission regularly gathers training officers from across the state to discuss training priorities for law enforcement agencies.

"If in these training needs assessments it is determined that training is needed in regards to the kirpan, training will be developed," POST spokesman Bob Stresak said.

Stresak said that compared with total arrests made, "statistically (the kirpan) wasn't a significant issue." He also noted that the agencies that interact with the state's two largest Sikh communities have not reported a major concern.

All the fear mongers make it sound like Sikhs with kirpans are going around and stabbing and killing people when law enforcement in the States is basically saying the Kirpan is not a major issue or concern.

It's fucking sad that some members in this thread and you know who you are, always act cute and post some sort of hateful post when it's a thread about Sikh's. Like the idiot in this thread who posted about knocking his friends turban off, like buddy what the fuck does that have to do with anything? Shame on all the members who's job it is to spew hateful shit whenever they get a chance but for the rest of the members who really do have valid concerns, continue asking questions, even if it offends some people, because that's how you learn about different cultures and people. You don't learn by reading articles.

[acurael]

Haha, it must be the Surrey in you.


4. The ignorant person is you. Multiculturalism does not mean blind acceptance. Multiculturalism works only if its within the confines of the Canadian context, otherwise you get anarchy. Cultures around the world still routinely burn brides to death as a legitimate form of divorce. There are cultures that mutilate girls' vagina's to keep them from "indecency." According to your logic, we should turn a blind eye to such crimes if they were to occur in Canada because "it's multicultural time baby and you're ignorant if you think otherwise."

:D

So you are comparing burning people to death, or cutting a girls vagina - to wearing a kirpan?
LOL...i guess i am stupid huh? You make much more sense dont you?

"It must be the Surrey in me?" - very mature. Another comment that shows what an idiot you truely are

Either way the decision is made - so if the olympics commitee is ok with it then get over it. If you want to protest then don't come to the games. Its better without people like you anyways.

End this thread already...too many stupid people on these forums :thumbsup:

lets go look up some bodykits and rice out our cars instead! :haha: