[Jackygor]

Bob Lutz from GM issued a Challenge for people to submit their cars to compete against the 556hp Cadillac CTS-V.

http://www.ctsvchallenge.com/

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/19/cadillac-cts-v-challenge-nets-120-applicants-heinricy-to-stand/

It was supposed to be Jaguar XFR vs. M5 vs. Audi RS5 vs. Cadillac CTS-V. But Jaguar backed out of the competition (admitting that they'd lose), and its been replaced by an EVO X MR!

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2009/10/cts-v-challenge-jaguar-bails-lutz-talks-smack.html

http://jalopnik.com/5391942/cadillac-cts+v-vs-mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-mr-by-the-numbers

summary:

Just to recap the original story....it didn't start out as EVO X vs. Cadillac CTS-V.

The auto editor at Jalopnik was going to race a Mercedes C63 AMG. But Mercedes pulled-out (didn't want to get embarassed and lose to a Cadillac again).

Then Jaguar was supposed to give them a Jaguar XFR for racing...but then Jaguar pulled-out.

So the EVO X was the THIRD choice (not the original first or even the second choice). From what I've read, it sounds like the EVO X is the editor's daily driver!

haha, the evo is going to get destoryedddddd! But it will be interesting nonetheless!

[GabAlmighty]

Jacky, I got excited and thought you were gonna run your car hahah

[RabidRat]

LOL me too

[124Y]

^ LOL!! All the SFASC members think a like! I was thinking of that as well! :lol

[shenmecar]

Is the CTS-V really that invincible........

[Jackygor]

LOL me too

Jacky, I got excited and thought you were gonna run your car hahah

^ LOL!! All the SFASC members think a like! I was thinking of that as well! :lol

it would be such good publicity for SFASC lol!

but too bad I am not :p

[keifun]

I admit. the CTS-V is a really nice car.

One of the few American cars I like, but I like the XFR too..

[orange7]

get the gtr in the race, and it'll be over.

[mpr]

CTS-V is the new sedan king.

pretty cheap for that kind of power. $77 K

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

^:haha::haha::haha:

[rooster328]

how about the V10 TT rs6?

[orange7]

CTS-V is the new sedan king.

pretty cheap for that kind of power. $77 K

get a regular gtr for a bit more, and the power output is very similar in term of HP.

[mpr]

I don't consider $101,200 + 15% tax a bit more. That is $27,000 more and on RS that means 3 cars. :haha:

This is comparing a 4 door sedan.

ur right. where is the RS6.

get a regular gtr for a bit more, and the power output is very similar in term of HP.

[GabAlmighty]

Let's get my car in there, game fucking over

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

woot my 8888 posts


i better go buy lottery

[Meowjin]

^:haha::haha::haha:

your right, your rsx can totally destroy the cts-v

[maxx]

just wait for the new M5 :evil :evil

[orange7]

I don't consider $101,200 + 15% tax a bit more. That is $27,000 more and on RS that means 3 cars. :haha:

This is comparing a 4 door sedan.

ur right. where is the RS6.


:eek:!! wasn't this car suppose to sell for 82k?

where have i been??

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

your right, your rsx can totally destroy the cts-v

since when the hell did i said that :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

i meant to laugh at this post

get the gtr in the race, and it'll be over.


but the other guy replied before me

[cococly]

get the gtr in the race, and it'll be over.

I believe this race is about the FASTEST production-spec 4-door sedan :confused:

[orange7]

I believe this race is about the FASTEST production-spec 4-door sedan :confused:


lol.. they only made those specifications so that the gtr can't join.

they might as well change the rule to all cars, except the gtr, within the hp range to compete in this race.

cause i have no idea how an evo x mr fits into the race... if the evo can get in, then so should the gtr.

[68style]

The EVO gets in because it's a sedan with 4-doors... is the GTR a sedan with 4-doors? No it is not... use your head man

[GabAlmighty]

get the gtr in the race, and it'll be over
Cuz you know, the gtr is the greatest thing since sliced bread...

[orange7]

lol.. they only made those specifications so that the gtr can't join.

they might as well change the rule to all cars, except the gtr, within the hp range to compete in this race.

cause i have no idea how an evo x mr fits into the race... if the evo can get in, then so should the gtr.

The EVO gets in because it's a sedan with 4-doors... is the GTR a sedan with 4-doors? No it is not... use your head man


lol.. you just backed me up. Thanks.
(btw, i knew someone would say it, so technically i was using my head.)

my point earlier was that the requirement for this race is bias so that the gtr doesn't fit it.

For example, having 4 doors is a must instead of having a minimum of 6 cylinders or a minimum of a certain car weight.

In my opinion even though the gtr doesn't fit into that category as well as the evo x, but it makes more sense to have it over the evo.

more point was that gtr seems to be a better match up than the evo x, even though the gtr doesn't fit in the category as well.

[orange7]

Cuz you know, the gtr is the greatest thing since sliced bread...

T&T egg bread >>>> western whole wheat or white bread

[Adrenaline Rush]

I don't consider $101,200 + 15% tax a bit more. That is $27,000 more and on RS that means 3 cars. :haha:

This is comparing a 4 door sedan.

ur right. where is the RS6.

Don't think the RS6 is out in North America yet - would be a very close race though.

[SpuGen]

get the gtr in the race, and it'll be over.

Spotted: GTR Fanboi.

Its a competition to see which is the fastest 4 door Sedan.
If you want to compare a GM Coupe vs the GTR, then it's already been done. The Corvette won. Get over it.

[68style]

lol.. you just backed me up. Thanks.
(btw, i knew someone would say it, so technically i was using my head.)

my point earlier was that the requirement for this race is bias so that the gtr doesn't fit it.

For example, having 4 doors is a must instead of having a minimum of 6 cylinders or a minimum of a certain car weight.

In my opinion even though the gtr doesn't fit into that category as well as the evo x, but it makes more sense to have it over the evo.

more point was that gtr seems to be a better match up than the evo x, even though the gtr doesn't fit in the category as well.

No it doesn't back you up at all, I don't think the GTR is the world's best performing production car do you? The point was Cadillac claims they have made the world's fastest production sedan ie: 4-door... otherwise Bob Lutz could take a ZR-1 off the production line and destroy the CTS-V around the course and what would be the point of that? The point is that it is the fastest thing you can buy that can comfortably carry 4 or 5 people in it with 4 fully opening doors and 2 or 3 bags of golf clubs in the trunk and nothing Mercedes or BMW etc. make can beat it....

I mean seriously... the GTR? Why not line up an Enzo with it? Or a Veyron for that matter? Who cares about cost right, that's just another "exclusion"... those cars must have been excluded by Lutz and that is the whole reason he put the "4-door" thing in just so the CTS-V wouldn't have to face them and lose :rolleyes:

It's a category, just like Honda says it sells the most compacts and Toyota says their full-size pickup is better than anyone else's etc... Cadillac claims they have made the fastest SEDAN and so far they are right... why is this so hard for you to understand?

[too_slow]

I highly doubt a RS6 or a new M5 would be in the same price range as the CTS-V.. Hell, even the B7 S4 and M3 costs around 70k if you slap on NAv, and all the premium/tech packages..

CTS-V ftw fo sho..

oh, and orange7 is a dumbass.. stop posting.. Weren't you the guy that judges a car based on whether it offer fog lights? (or was that the q128378914728 guy)

[death_blossom]

I highly doubt a RS6 or a new M5 would be in the same price range as the CTS-V.. Hell, even the B7 S4 and M3 costs around 70k if you slap on NAv, and all the premium/tech packages..

that is exactly why GM is issuing out this challenge. they're trying to show that with 70k, they can beat (or match) the likes of more expensive sports sedans like the M5, etc.

I'm surprised that BMW did not provide an M3 sedan for this challenge as well. I think that would have a pretty good chance against the CTS-V.

[shenmecar]

I highly doubt a RS6 or a new M5 would be in the same price range as the CTS-V.. Hell, even the B7 S4 and M3 costs around 70k if you slap on NAv, and all the premium/tech packages..

CTS-V ftw fo sho..

oh, and orange7 is a dumbass.. stop posting.. Weren't you the guy that judges a car based on whether it offer fog lights? (or was that the q128378914728 guy)

ROFL

[Jackygor]

the track is wet...

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/10/Jalopnik-EVO.jpg

so far the time is

Second lap for Chris F. in the CTS-V 03:14:292
Second lap for Wes Siler in the Mitsubishi EVO 03:08:126
First lap for Chris F. in the CTS- V 03:18:050
First lap for Tom L in the Audi RS4 03:15:702

OHH SNAPP

[RE-Jo]

So the competition is held on a track instead of a 1/4mile strip eh?
Originally I thought this was gonna be a straight acceleration contest, didn't think the EVO would have a chance if so.

[Jackygor]

So the competition is held on a track instead of a 1/4mile strip eh?
Originally I thought this was gonna be a straight acceleration contest, didn't think the EVO would have a chance if so.

Its this track

http://cache-06.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_Monticello_Map.jpg

[mpr]

http://twitter.com/Cadillac

Best lap time for Bob Lutz is 02:56:321. Smoking hot time. CTS-V


CTS-V is the new king of sedan!! even in wet.

[Jackygor]

run down for round 3

Top lap time for the thrid round goes to Aaron L in the CTS-V at 02:48:902
Best lap time for Bob Lutz is 02:56:321. Smoking hot time
Third lap for Bob Lutz is 02:56:732
First lap for Bob Lutz in the CTS-V is a hot 02:58:072. Beats Wes Siler's best by 10 seconds.
Second lap for Michael M in the BMW M5 03:08:989
First Lap for Aron L. CTS-V 02:48:902
Frist lap for Michael M. BMW M5 05:17:580

[mpr]

Top lap time for the thrid round goes to Aaron L in the CTS-V at 02:48:902

damn it. evo sucks

[Qmx323]

lots of straights on that track it seems. Looks like fun
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[orange7]

No it doesn't back you up at all, I don't think the GTR is the world's best performing production car do you? The point was Cadillac claims they have made the world's fastest production sedan ie: 4-door... otherwise Bob Lutz could take a ZR-1 off the production line and destroy the CTS-V around the course and what would be the point of that? The point is that it is the fastest thing you can buy that can comfortably carry 4 or 5 people in it with 4 fully opening doors and 2 or 3 bags of golf clubs in the trunk and nothing Mercedes or BMW etc. make can beat it....

I mean seriously... the GTR? Why not line up an Enzo with it? Or a Veyron for that matter? Who cares about cost right, that's just another "exclusion"... those cars must have been excluded by Lutz and that is the whole reason he put the "4-door" thing in just so the CTS-V wouldn't have to face them and lose :rolleyes:

It's a category, just like Honda says it sells the most compacts and Toyota says their full-size pickup is better than anyone else's etc... Cadillac claims they have made the fastest SEDAN and so far they are right... why is this so hard for you to understand?


but it's a geee teeeaaa arrreee... :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

[Jackygor]

overall time

CTS-V (John Heinricy): 2:46:560
CTS-V (Brian Redman): 2:49:183
CTS-V (Aaron Link): 2:48:902
CTS-V (Lawrence Ulrich): 2:53:026
BMW M3 (Michael Cooper): 2.50:424
CTS-V (Jack Baruth): 2:51:153
CTS-V (Bob Lutz): 2:56:321
Evo (Wes Siler): 3:08.126
BMW M5 (Michael Mainwald): 3:08:989
CTS-V (Chris Fairman.): 3:14:292
Audi RS4 (Tom Loder): 3:15:702
Jaguar XF (Archan Basu): 3:16.670

3rd car overall is not bad, considering the competition it was up against

[mpr]

BMW M3 (Michael Cooper): 2.50:424


wow! makes me wanna buy a M3 now. then sc it to 550 hp. or gtr. or cts-v :cry:

[shenmecar]

lots of straights on that track it seems. Looks like fun
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

CTS-V + straights. Win.

[asahai69]

CTS-V + straights. Win.

it did the "ring" in under 8 minutes. so it can corner aswell

[GabAlmighty]

http://www.bryanappleyard.com/blog/uploaded_images/duty_calls-742039.bmp

[maxx]

no doubt: the Caddy is amazing for the money you pay.

[PiuYi]

http://www.bryanappleyard.com/blog/uploaded_images/duty_calls-742039.bmp

bahahhaaa

to be honest, nobody's willing to give the CTS-V credit cuz its an american car
its a damn good car (performance-wise) ppl, admit it

altho the interior is another story...

[thumper]

what is wrong with the interior?

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/09_ctsv_interior.jpg

[Supafly]

what is wrong with the interior?

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/09_ctsv_interior.jpg

everything.

i find the steering wheel way to cluttered and confusing....same with the center console.

I personally like the clean sleek look with not so many buttons and lights everywhere....its a car, not a spaceship.

[thumper]

really... ugh most of the reviews i've read seem to favor it :confused:

what other interiors are you comparing to?

[twixxer]

i think the interior looks really good, better than any previous caddy interiors.

[RacePace]

Top lap time for the thrid round goes to Aaron L in the CTS-V at 02:48:902

damn it. evo sucks

do you even realize how much more power the CTS-V has over the Evo?

[thumper]

well i'll admit to the seats (even though they are recaro) are not nice to look at... chunky headrests?:

http://image.motortrend.com/f/27098496+w750/112_0910_26z+2009_cadillac_CTS-V+drivers_seat.jpg

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

what is wrong with the interior?

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/09_ctsv_interior.jpg

i personally love the interior


i mean we are pretty much in 2010 now, this isnt year 2000

where everything was plain and simple, you gotta stay trendy in terms of interior design.

Not the same boring plain interior every 3 series has

[mpr]

I think the interior looks great with all that functionality.

Things I can pick for my personal taste is the steering wheel is large. I like it more simple without all those buttons to distract me. Also the move up monitor might be another distraction while driving, but it might go down when you drive. As for the seats, it looks like it is made for a big fat american. I probably can save 100 lb of weight just to take those seats off. Other than that, I think it will be a bitch to take off that center console.



not sure. is it 43 horsepower?

do you even realize how much more power the CTS-V has over the Evo?

[RacePace]

not sure. is it 43 horsepower?

about 265....the CTS-V has almost double the hp

[mpr]

HOLY COW!!! 265 HP MORE!!! :eek::eek: Now it really deserves the spaceship interior. ITS A ROCKET!!


about 265....the CTS-V has almost double the hp

[xpl0sive]

CTS-V is best bang for the buck right now as far as luxury sport sedans go... I mean if Audi ever brings the RS6 over here, it would smoke the CTS-V, but it would cost almost twice as much... I am pretty sure I will be buying a CTS-V in a year or two once it depreciates like a stone like every other Cadillac... white with a 6 speed and recaros.. Mmm

[Z3guy]

^ in 2 yrs, I bet the CTS-V will go for $40K. Have you seen the prices on the prev gen CTS-V? they are like $20K...not bad for 350hp

[xpl0sive]

that's what i'm waiting for

[asahai69]

if the cts-v had a japanese or german badge. everyone on here would be singing its praises.

[xpl0sive]

well thats why they did the whole marketing thing... Obviously most people would say they would rather have an M5 over some american cadillac... especially people on revscene who are all BMW fanboys... or like the other retard who is going off about buying a GTR for "not much more"... when it comes down to it, CTS-V is a good car. now it's too early to tell what the reliability will be like, which is why I wanna wait a few years before buying one

[Z3guy]

^ if the CTS-V had the fit and finish, quality of materials, and resale value of a german badge, then I would be singing it praises.

same argument as Corvette Vs 911

[thumper]

^ if the CTS-V had the fit and finish, quality of materials, and resale value of a german badge, then I would be singing it praises.

same argument as Corvette Vs 911

your statement about the corvette i have to agree with... it's pretty horrific in there :o

z3guy... have you been in a cts?

[xpl0sive]

so you would rather get a Carrera 4S instead of a Zr-1? casue you're not getting a 911 turbo for that price... I know what you mean, American interior quality sucks... plastic always feel cheap and seems like it all wants to come apart. I havent seen the interior in the ZR1 in person, so I don't know what its like. I havent been inside a cts-v yet either, but from pictures it looks on par with cars in it's price range, see C63... Like i said, I'm not saying everyone should run out and buy a brand new CTS-v... but for a person looking at an M5 or an XFR, the cadillac puts up a good fight.

[Z3guy]

^ I agree with you xplosive, just like a used Z06 ($50K) the CTS-V is by no doubt the best bang for your buck. When I sell my 5 series, I will replace it with a used M5 or M6, not so much because it is better value, but for me, it is a better overall pkg imo. Maybe not faster, but I just can't get over the cheap feeling of the CTS-V switchgear & quality of plastics. Plus in 5yrs the M5 will still be kool, but I don't know if the CTS-V will be....no one seems to care about the first gen CTS-V. IMO, the E39 M5 is still a really kool car

thumper, I have been in a new CTS, but not the V.....at first glance the interior looks awesome, but when you touch the materials, open the glovebox, you can feel the lack of quality. Nothing wrong with it, I just value fit and finish and quality of materials more than the regular consumer. IMO, Audi make the best interiors.

[Great68]

Fuck, The ricer way seems to be if you can't pick on anything else you pick on the interior :rolleyes:

BMW could design the interior for Cadillac and I bet you people would STILL say "It's got a crappy domestic interior".

For the ZR1, its practically a race car for the street, like a ferrari enzo a lush fancy interior is not the point.

[Z3guy]

^ nothing to do with the design, it has to do with fit and finish and quality of materials....I wish Cadillac charged $3000 more for the CTS-V and upgraded the interior.

[jonny123]

I personally love the CTS V interior. Looks SICK.

Some other nice interiors:
RS6: http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/4/z/rs6avant_dash.jpg
Lincoln: http://www.carspace.com/arvin1/Albums/Interior%20Car%20Pictures/originals/lincoln-mks-5555.jpg/photo/v./original.jpg

Interiors aside, the CTS did pretty well. It would have been nice to see Lutz get embarrassed by a 4 cylinder, but it didn't happen. As sick as the EvoX is, (really good power for money - almost 300 being produced from a inline4, good handling, etc etc etc) it didn't beat the CTSV. Maybe this is because of the fact it has almost twice the hp?

Also, depends a bit on the drivers. Get a pro driver in the M3 (6 seconds short) or the Evo, and I bet we'd have different results. (But then you'd want a pro driver in the CTSV too, and it might just turn out the way it did)

At the end of the day, yes, CTS V has the power and the bragging rights to the times, but I'd rather drive a BMW or Lexus over a Cadillac. (No hate esp for the CTS V, its verrry NAICE)

[thumper]

cts-v interior again...

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/09_ctsv_interior.jpg

bmw m5:

http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2005-bmw-m5-dashboard-1280x960.jpg

i'm guessing the bmw interior gets away with more simplicity because it's eliminated many switches/buttons by incorporating them into the i-drive system?

[too_slow]

^I think ALL BMW dashes are hideous looking. The only exception is the E92Coupe individual WITHOUT the NAV screen.
If anything, the new Merc E/S classes have a far hideous looking dash than the Bimmer.

CTS-V's dash layout > M5 > E/S63

[xpl0sive]

the CTS-V even has a leather stiched dash, unlike the simple plastic ones in the M5/BENZ... leatehr dashes are for aston martins and jags lol

[too_slow]

^Werd. I didn't even notice that. You would have thought that french leather stitching dash would be standard on a $100,000+ car..

[PiuYi]

what is wrong with the interior?

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/09_ctsv_interior.jpg

its hard to tell with pics but just the materials, the plastics, and the fit and finish seems very cheap n not as high class as german/japanese luxury models
i dunno maybe im biased too but just my personal take on it :)

[too_slow]

^Yes, I'm sure a Honda Fit has a much nicer interior than a CTS-V..

[Great68]

its hard to tell with pics but just the materials, the plastics, and the fit and finish seems very cheap n not as high class as german/japanese luxury models
i dunno maybe im biased too but just my personal take on it :)

How exactly do you tell fit and finish from a picture? Explain now it "seems" less high class? What exactly is less high class?

I know! It must be because it has vertical air vents instead of horizontal air vents! Everyone knows vertical air vents means cheap! yeah!

[d1]

^Yes, I'm sure a Honda Fit has a much nicer interior than a CTS-V..

He said luxury model, not entry level.

[thumper]

audi rs4 dash:

http://l.yimg.com/dv/izp/audi_a4_2.0_t_sedan_quattro_manual_2009_dashboard_ dashboard.jpg

it's pretty much just business and not much else in there :o

[xpl0sive]

Audi interior design > life

[tgill]

its hard to tell with pics but just the materials, the plastics, and the fit and finish seems very cheap n not as high class as german/japanese luxury models
i dunno maybe im biased too but just my personal take on it :)
funny looking at the m5 dash the shifter, idrive, and all the buttons on the wheel looking cheap as fuck,all beamers have that same ugly dash.tbh cts-v looks great.

[crazyazn]

The CTS-V interior looks pretty nice in the pics...but I'd say the Audi ones look better

[Meister1982]

LOL the bmw m5 interior shot makes it look pretty ugly

[PiuYi]

its hard to tell with pics but just the materials, the plastics, and the fit and finish seems very cheap n not as high class as german/japanese luxury models
i dunno maybe im biased too but just my personal take on it :)

How exactly do you tell fit and finish from a picture? Explain now it "seems" less high class? What exactly is less high class?

I know! It must be because it has vertical air vents instead of horizontal air vents! Everyone knows vertical air vents means cheap! yeah!

:confused: i think i answered everything b4 u asked it

[trollguy]

evo's are slow


...........


:D:D

[asahai69]

:confused: i think i answered everything b4 u asked it

have you ever sat in the caddy? how could you assume the interior and shit is cheap and the fit and finish is not up to par if you are only looking at a picture? the bmw interior looks cheaper than the caddy if you wanna go by pictures.

[Meowjin]

cts has one of the best interior's i've seen in a car.