[What_the?]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/091114/canada/canada_britishcolumbia_bc_ambulance_shortage_param edic_strike

VANCOUVER (CBC) - The B.C. Ambulance Service is urging residents throughout B.C. to call 911 only in life-threatening situations after a number of paramedics booked off their shifts with little notice Saturday.
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In a written release, the B.C. Ambulance Service said more than 50 paramedics booked off their scheduled shifts just prior to the shift start time.

On Saturday, 10 ambulances were out of service in Metro Vancouver and 10 more in the Fraser Valley.

Three were out of service in the Sea to Sky Corridor and no ambulances were staffed in Boston Bar, Hope, Agassiz or Pemberton.

Only one ambulance was available in Mission and Whistler.

The B.C. Ambulance Service says the move is likely a protest after members of the B.C. legislature pushed through a bill ordering B.C.'s 3,500 ambulance paramedics back to work last Saturday, ending a strike that started in April.

Lee Doney, the CEO of the B.C. Ambulance Service, said this degree of absenteeism has never happened before.

"I understand that paramedics are frustrated. Tempers are high because of the back-to-work legislation, but this is no way to protest. Putting people's lives at risk is no way to protest," he said.

However, John Strohmeier, the president of CUPE Local 873, said the union had nothing to do with the cancelled shifts.

"There is a pandemic going on right now. I suspect that any paramedics that may be symptomatic are probably following the advice of the province's chief medical officer and staying home," he said.

"So I don't think there's any concerted effort by paramedics here. It's just a question of there not being enough staff to begin with."

The B.C. Ambulance Service said low-priority calls would likely be delayed but all emergency calls would be handled on a priority basis.

People with minor injuries or illness were advised to visit their doctor's office or walk-in clinic.

[CRS]

Ugh, though I am not for the legislation that pushes them back to work, this is certainly not a way to fight back.

In fact, this is pretty fucked up that they would even think about risking people's lives in the name of "protesting". This certainly does not make me want to fight their cause when they are hurting the people they are suppose to help.

[Meowjin]

Lol... Why work when you get paid pennies?
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[PiuYi]

this is terrible
paramedics should get their raises... they seriously get paid shit for what they do

[Lude S]

this is terrible
paramedics should get their raises... they seriously get paid shit for what they do

dont like it, find another job. Should of known before you started, you signed on knowing how much you get paid.

[dachinesedude]

Lol... Why work when you get paid pennies?
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

so i guess you'd rather die in a car accident than have them come save you, since they shouldnt work right?

[Ch28]

Ugh, though I am not for the legislation that pushes them back to work, this is certainly not a way to fight back.

In fact, this is pretty fucked up that they would even think about risking people's lives in the name of "protesting". This certainly does not make me want to fight their cause when they are hurting the people they are suppose to help.

+1

[Meowjin]

so i guess you'd rather die in a car accident than have them come save you, since they shouldnt work right?

if they arn't getting paid why work?

You honestly think all doctors/nurses/health care workers are in it to do better for the world and save lives?

Pay these guys what they deserve (they arn't asking for an outrageous wage, they are just asking for STEADY pay, since they get paid by the CALL. Also if they are saving lives shouldn't this be enough to pay them more?)

Making legistlation to FORCE THEM from striking (lol essential service) is borderline unconstitutional, and proves that these guys NEED to get paid more.

I will gladly support the paramedic union. These guy's have been responsive in the past when my mother went into shock pre-death, and gave her a few more days to live so I can say my final goodbyes.

Also the raises are made so they keep up with INFLATION. So STFU if you think they are greedy.

[Meowjin]

dont like it, find another job. Should of known before you started, you signed on knowing how much you get paid.

...

dumbest

thing

ever.

anyways


As in any contract dispute, the bottom line is money. Paramedics say it goes deeper than a 3% pay raise both sides seem to agree on.

The union wants to fix a complicated pay scale that gives on-call workers $2 per hour, while full-time attendants get anywhere from $19 to $35 per hour.

"Specifically we're looking for third-party arbitration to come in and address the issues of the B.C. Ambulance Service. Issues of staffing, recruitment and retention," said Stuart Myers, a union spokesman. "Pay is obviously one issue. We see a complicated payscale and it's impossible to explain in a sound bite."

[!SG]

they arent fighting just for raises, but work hours. there just arent enough ambulance paramedics to go around. but this is a tough one. how can the gov't help out if there arent enough ambulance paramedics? you cant expect them to suddenly clone ppl.

i am for fair wages, and if they are not being paid fairly then they should get just pay. i also remember when i was in the ambulance, after the getting out of the hospital, they mailed me an invoice for about 60 bucks, and the letter stated that they dont get paid for the service. if thats true then than really sucks, i gladly wrote them a cheque.

all i can think of that the gov't can do is create more incentives, market and advertise it more, make it more welcoming for ppl to consider being a paramedic for a career.


its just shitty timing with the economy and how businesses are all cutting back.

[Great68]

Ugh, though I am not for the legislation that pushes them back to work, this is certainly not a way to fight back.

In fact, this is pretty fucked up that they would even think about risking people's lives in the name of "protesting". This certainly does not make me want to fight their cause when they are hurting the people they are suppose to help.

Agree, but they really have no other effective means of getting their message out there. What else can they do?

[Razor Ramon HG]

I agree with CRS. This is fucking stupid.

[CRS]

Agree, but they really have no other effective means of getting their message out there. What else can they do?

That doesn't justify it at all.

These people are trusted with essential services like saving lives and they want to fight back by saying "oh fuck these people, I want more pay first". I'm sorry, but that is fucked. There is no valid excuse to do such a thing when it is harming the very people that they depend on and vice versa.

[Great68]

That doesn't justify it at all.

These people are trusted with essential services like saving lives and they want to fight back by saying "oh fuck these people, I want more pay first". I'm sorry, but that is fucked. There is no valid excuse to do such a thing when it is harming the very people that they depend on and vice versa.

So what else can they do?

[CRS]

So what else can they do?

You're not getting it.

You have terrible logic if you think this is the only thing they can do to protest. With questions like "what else can they do?" is like asking well since there is no viable option, this must be the course we should take! Are they so helpless that they are going to revert to 5 year olds and pull stupid as stunts like this that is uncalled for?

Harming the very people you depend on is NOT an answer and should never be an answer. This is why we live in a democracy, sure it has its downfalls but we vote for the guys that put up the legislature. Perhaps we should vote differently?

There are a million things they can do but doing this is never called for. But then again, I guess being shot would be better than getting tased here too.

[Great68]

You're not getting it.

You have terrible logic if you think this is the only thing they can do to protest. With questions like "what else can they do?" is like asking well since there is no viable option, this must be the course we should take! Are they so helpless that they are going to revert to 5 year olds and pull stupid as stunts like this that is uncalled for?

Harming the very people you depend on is NOT an answer and should never be an answer. This is why we live in a democracy, sure it has its downfalls but we vote for the guys that put up the legislature. Perhaps we should vote differently?


I think you're not getting it.
What part of what I have said has suggested what they are doing right now was RIGHT?

I asked you what can they do instead? You have not provided an answer. Maybe because there is nothing else they CAN do.

[godwin]

It had been said over and over again, their union screwed themselves and they are now bitter. They were offered a better deal 4% year over year + signing bonus (during the economy was collapsing) union miscalculated and they rejected it.. so now they are ended up with nothing.

^^ What they can do instead? How about quit?

[Great68]

How about quit?

Who's going to replace them?

If they did decide to quit en masse, we'd be fucked. You can't exactly hire any Tom, Dick, or Harry to do their job.

[dutch]

Gotta go with the paramedics on this one. These guys are having their rights trampled on.

Their last decent chance of getting what they want is the Olympics. If there are no paramedics, there are no Olympics.


http://www.saveourparamedics.com (http://www.saveourparamedics.com/)


make sure you guys watch this, a documentary detailing all the issues the paramedics have.

http://vimeo.com/7176039



.

[Jeffield]

Check this out guys..

http://www.saveourparamedics.com/


Paramedics have came to my old high school and gave a talk, it was very eye opening how much they get screwed over.

[Jeffield]

Damn dutch, you beat me to it.

[7seven]

I feel for the paramedics and agree that they do deserve some sort of raise, however, this whole thing has been horribly mismanaged by their union

This article sums up pretty much how I feel
Was there ever any doubt the strike by B.C. paramedics would end the way it did Monday - with the government legislating ambulance attendants back on the job?

You could see this one coming back in January when the paramedics demanded a 29-per-cent wage hike at the height of the global economic meltdown.

Talk about lousy timing. That's like marching into your boss's office and asking for a raise on the same day the company declares bankruptcy.

The paramedics' stratospheric wage demand reminded me of 2001, when the B.C. teachers union demanded a 34-per-cent raise a few weeks after the 9-11 terrorist attacks had sent world stock markets into freefall.

And guess how that one ended? The teachers went on strike and the government forced them back to work. You don't have to be the Amazing Kreskin to predict this stuff.

That's not to say paramedics don't work their butts off or that they're not a crucial part of the health-care system or they're not respected and appreciated by the public. Just the opposite is true.

It's just that a major aspect of these sort of disputes is the public-relations battle _ and you don't get much public sympathy by asking for the moon when the economy is on the rocks and thousands of people are out of work. (Ask the 535 people just laid off in Kitimat if a 29-per-cent raise is a reasonable demand.)

And was there ever a genuine chance of a negotiatied settlement? When the government offered a three-per-cent raise, the union executive responded in the bluntest of terms.

"The offer of settlement amounts to a piece of crap," CUPE Local 873 presidents John Strohmaier wrote in his official recommendation to union members.

A "piece of crap"? When the economy is flatlining and the annual inflation rate is actually below zero?

At some point, there's no sense talking anymore.

The union demanded such a big raise because they wanted to be paid the same as Vancouver police officers, despite the fact that the two jobs are completely different and haven't been in the same wage ballpark since the 1970s.

The bitter irony for the union is they could have settled back in March for a three-per-cent raise and a $4,100 signing bonus.

Now the bonus has gone bye-bye, at a time when paramedics could have used the cash.

And by the way: If paramedics are so underpaid at up to $91,000 a year, why are 350 paramedic students trying to train for jobs right now - training that's been stymied by the strike because the union won't participate in their practicums?

Throw in the H1N1 flu virus, and critical ambulance shortages during the strike, and the government saw the perfect opportunity to bring the hammer down.

CUPE blew it: They should have taken the bonus bucks, like every other public-sector union was smart enough to do.

http://www.theprovince.com/business/Striking+ambulance+attendants+blew+taking+spring+o ffer/2174393/story.html

[Eff-1]

And for those who are wondering what's the pay structure like:

Paramedics need to put in quite some time before they can be bumped up or fill in an OFFICIAL full time PCP position.

Until that time (approx 6 years is the amount of time it takes to accumulate that seniority now as far as I'm told as I'm getting into the field myself) to be eligible for such a title.

Until that time paramedics work on call or FOX shifts - an on call shift (usually the back up car) entails 12 hours of $2 an hr pager pay, at which point if you get a call on the back up car you get bumped up to 3-4 hours at PCP wage which I'm told is between $15-$30/hr. Whether you get ONE call-out or SEVEN in that time frame, you get paid for 3-4 hours from the initial call, and then go back down to pager pay. Keep in mind at $2 an hr, whether you get a call or not, you need to be within range of the station, if not on site, with uniform ready to go, can't make plans with your family etc, need to stay sober, its as if you're working, but you're not!

Then there's a fox shift - where you can be paired with a full time paramedic for a 12 hour shift on the Alpha car - main responding ambulance from the station, and you are at $10 an hr, but same thing goes, you don't get full PCP wage until you get a call, and the wage is only for that specific period of time, regardless of how many calls you recieve, and then you're back down to the $10/hr.

For the first 10 years or so unless you're prepared to pull ridiculous amounts of overtime, the training facilities are VERY up front that it is NOT a job that you can live off of, particularly at today's cost of living, unless you are prepared to offer full time, damn-near 24/7 abvailability spread out amongst a few different stations, to block you for as many shifts as you can do.

Argyle or any other PCP's correct me if I'm wrong here, just trying to explain it as its been done with me.

[Eff-1]

Think about this next time you crash your civic and lying in a ditch waiting for help:

Paramedics pay up to $10,000 and go to school for about 6 months, live in Vancouver but get their first station in lets say Litton

they drive up to Litton having to put in a minimum of 8 shifts of availbility, grab a pager and sit and wait for one of lets say us, to go off the road and down the bank

the pager goes off and they hop in the ambulance...to that point they are making 2.00 an hour ...then they get paid for minumum 4 hr call out at our rate ( starting is around 17.00 first year) I believe

In my case I worked in Chemainus for 8.5 years before getting enough senority for full time hire. back then we had no pager pay, so we carried a pager for free

It was a great part time job, but you had to do something else besides... to make ends meet

2.00 an hour pager pay was only implemented a few years ago

I have been over in Vancouver for close to 7 1/2 years now full time

to put it in perspective there are approximately 3800 paramedics in the province and only 1300 are full time

[StylinRed]

I agreed with the paramedics throughout their dispute, but this tactic that they're taking now is despicable and doesn't deserve support from the public.. i had always assumed that they yearned to help people while trying to get what they want (which should have the full backing of the public) but what they're doing now is just playing with peoples lives

[StylinRed]

Who's going to replace them?

If they did decide to quit en masse, we'd be fucked. You can't exactly hire any Tom, Dick, or Harry to do their job.

they could grab a Doctor, RN, RCMP, FireFighter, bring paramedics in from outside the province/state, military medics, coast guard, rescue workers, certified level ?? first aid workers, and throw them into a Ambulance while they speed train new paramedics to replace those who left

it may be rough for awhile but probably work out better

[Devastator]

So these doctors, firefighters, rcmp are willing give up there 60000 a year position so they can hold a pager and get 2 bucks an hour?

they could grab a Doctor, RN, RCMP, FireFighter, bring paramedics in from outside the province/state, military medics, coast guard, rescue workers, certified level ?? first aid workers, and throw them into a Ambulance while they speed train new paramedics to replace those who left

it may be rough for awhile but probably work out better

[Nocardia]

they arent fighting just for raises, but work hours. there just arent enough ambulance paramedics to go around. but this is a tough one. how can the gov't help out if there arent enough ambulance paramedics? you cant expect them to suddenly clone ppl.

actually there are tons of paramedics, i think it only takes 1 yr to become a emergency medical responder. my understanding is that its quite intense but quite a few people have the training.

The problem is that all the new ones have to go work on call for 48 hours somewhere in the interior every weekend b/c its quite hard to get a full time position in metro vancouver.

[StylinRed]

So these doctors, firefighters, rcmp are willing give up there 60000 a year position so they can hold a pager and get 2 bucks an hour?

thats kind of ridiculous to mention.... in an emergency situation those things should be considered last and dealt with afterwards

ur not telling them to quit their jobs and work as paramedics....

jesus ur remark was retarded.....

[jACEDesignsLtd]

lol. Like it or not, the paramedics now have politicians' attention. I'm curious as to what will happen next.

also note that handyDART service is on strike as well.

[Roach]

When someone dies as a result of this situation, do you think the public's outcry is going to be to immediately give these people a raise?

This has the potential to be severely detrimental to their own cause.

Kev

[taylor192]

Lets stop the whining about $2 pay and actually post up some yearly figures. How much are paramedics on average making? If they get a single call and get paid for the next 3-4 ours, then in an 8 hour shift they only need 2 calls to get paid for the entire shift.

With the pandemic, how likely is it they get 1 call in a 4 hour period?

That sounds awesome to me, I'd love to only work for 2-3 hours and get paid for 8.

[StylinRed]

majin and nsmb u lil twerps.... -_-

i was speaking in hypothetical terms if the paramedics did just say "fuk u" and quit, what would be a possibility to deal with the missing paramedics in the short term

heck we're already bringing paramedics in from the interior to replace these guys taking holidays

[Meowjin]

uh, if they are asking for a 4k signing bonus this isn't a career that people are running to.

[taylor192]

The problem is the union.

Paramedics in remote regions should be paid more and be offered full time work.

I have a friend that does dental assistant work in the NWT and Yukon. She gets paid a small fortune to visit all these remote areas. Yet a typical dental assistant doesn't get paid much in a city.

The union would dictate same pay for everyone, instead of allowing this sliding pay scale for remote jobs to encourage people to take them.

[Graeme S]

Quick thing:

As far as the teachers' strike thing goes that 7even mentioned, that was what teachers asked for after taking a 0/0/0 contract in exchange for new hiring and class size reductions (which the government didn't go through with) resulting in ridiculously low wages (ie: they took pay CUTS with inflation) and class sizes that were the same or bigger than before.

Didn't help that Conrad Black decided that no media he owned would give positive messages about the Teachers, and it's still funny that BC is the only place in the WORLD that has school teachers mandated as an essential service.

[static]

anyone know approx how much they get paid ?

[Meowjin]

^^wow

[Hehe]

IMO, I'm in with a pay raise in a form of a bill raise to offer paramedic a better work environment.

Seriously, I don't make much off my regular job (get earning mostly on my investment, which is powered by daddy to a certain extend) but I'd be glad to pay $1000 bill for ambulance service if I ever need one. $1000 for a chance to survive is pennies IMO.

How many times have you ever needed an ambulance in your life? I have yet needed once (knock on wood) and I'd believe that throughout my life, I would need it less than 5 times.

Gov't should just subsidize those who can't pay (say if the person income is less than x amount) and offers payment plans for those who can. Say the $1000 bills is payable in 12 payments if you ever needed one. This should minimize cost to government and yet providing a decent level of service along with decent pay for paramedics.

[goo3]

Google says this:

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/11/05/bc-paramedics-strike-legislation-debate.html

According to the union, B.C. ambulance paramedics are the lowest-paid in the country, with an average wage of $28 per hour, compared with $31.25 in Calgary and $43.27 in Edmonton.


http://www.timescolonist.com/health/Judge+rules+overtime+striking+paramedics+breaches+ essential+services/2013604/story.html
From comments section:

I work as a Paramedic in Vancouver. Last year, I worked in excess of 70 overtime shifts and could have worked more if I wanted to. I did so to pay for an Advanced Life Support course that I plan to take in the future. In March of this year, the admission requirements changed for the course and I now have to complete 1 year of university prior to enrolling. I am presently in contempt of the Supreme Court order because I refuse to work or submit overtime availability as I have done “historically” in the past. I do, and always have worked my regularly scheduled shifts. But now I am expected to work 2 overtime shifts, study, and try to fit in some time for myself and my family before starting the cycle all over again. Many of my colleges are in similar circumstances for different reasons. It is not our fault that we are short paramedics on the street. We have been short “historically” for years.

Paramedics work for the most part 12 hour shifts (2 day shifts followed by 2 night shifts with 4 days off). The overtime we are being asked to do isn’t an hour or so. It is a full shift. My overtime rate is 1&1/2 my base rate ($30.01). If my regular shift runs into overtime because of a late call, I receive $45.02 per hour. If I work an overtime shift on my days off, I receive only $37.51 per hour instead of my overtime rate of $45.02. A difference $7.50 per hour. The BC government realized a long time ago that it is cheaper to have Paramedics work overtime than hire more fulltime staff.

On average, 15 ambulances are staffed with Paramedics on overtime costing the taxpayer approximately 15 million a year. This doesn’t include sickness or injury incurred while working these extra hours. To staff these ambulances normally, would cost approximately 9 million.

Paramedics are for the most part, are very busy. I seldom see my station during my shift, and usually go from call to call without seeing my station, and if I do, it is to restock, organize stock, clean my station, clean my ambulance and try to find time to take care of the necessities of life (eating, washroom, etc.).

There are only 3,471 Paramedics in the province working out of 470 ambulances (including spare vehicles). We did 534,688 calls in 2007/2008 (excluding hospital waits and area stand-bys). If you take these numbers in perspective, Paramedics had contact with 1 in 8 people living in the province BC. If you are to compare the BC Ambulance Service with any other ambulance service. You will see very quickly that we are, by far, the busiest.


So base pay is about $60K yearly (assuming avg 40hr work week) plus OT @ 1.5x.

[Spectre_Cdn]

I would rather have paramedics getting pay raises than the Liberal bureaucrats.

[hotjoint]

wow only 60K a year? I thought they made way more then that

[silk]

They should be paid more because they are constanly working under stress.
I don't mind my tax money goes towards them, same goes the firefighter.

I once had a accident on Lougheed highway, firefighter and ambulance were here within the 5 mins, that was pretty impressive. I thank whoever made the phone call.

[taylor192]

They should be paid more because they are constanly working under stress.
I don't mind my tax money goes towards them, same goes the firefighter.

Then you should look up what a basic foot soldier makes, or what a youth care worker makes. Both deal with the same kinda stressful crappy people, yet make pennies compared to that.

These are government jobs. What they lack in salary they make up for in job security and pensions.

[marc0lishuz]

My bro is a paramedic. Believe me, he hates cancelling his shifts because cars become unstaffed, and he doesn't get paid.

But ask yourself this - do you think they'd be protesting if they haven't exhausted all other efforts to gain attention?

Firefighters and cops already got huge raises, but paramedics were left out in the cold. Again.

[StylinRed]

so ur brother agrees its a deplorable tactic yet he still takes it? wow...

[Gt-R R34]

i hate to say it but i'm with the paramedics, i wouldn't hold it against them if that was me in an accident, i would only have to blame the govie and the "work order".

If your job is to save lives, they better get paid for such a job. IN no way shape or form should they not.

[iEatClams]

I don't blame this on the government
I don't blame it on the actual paramedics.

I blame it on the Union Management. They fucked up HUGE!!!
First not accepting the deal back at the start of the year when almost everybody else did because the economy was so bad, and then now advising the medics to be absent. FUCK, fire the union management already.

I feel bad for the paramedics cause they really do deserve a pay raise.

[marc0lishuz]

so ur brother agrees its a deplorable tactic yet he still takes it? wow...

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[CRS]

I don't blame this on the government
I don't blame it on the actual paramedics.

I blame it on the Union Management. They fucked up HUGE!!!
First not accepting the deal back at the start of the year when almost everybody else did because the economy was so bad, and then now advising the medics to be absent. FUCK, fire the union management already.

I feel bad for the paramedics cause they really do deserve a pay raise.

Pretty much summed up what was posted before but agreed.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

That is still not a justified cause. PEOPLE WILL FUCKING DIE BECAUSE OF YOUR PIECE OF SHIT "PROTEST".

Tell me, what amount of money will equate to a life? Or maybe 2 lives? How about every single life that is lost in BC for this "desperate times for desperate measures"?

If it were just, why don't the paramedics straight up come out and say "yeah, we all did call in and say we can't work at the very last moment to protest" but instead, they are hiding behind the union (who is BS in itself).

That shows that they know it is fucked up and shouldn't be doing it. If this is the mentality that the paramedics want to take, I am sure as hell not in for giving these people a raise. I mean seriously? Threaten us and harm those who need help and still demand a raise?

You can go and fuck yourselves.

[Meowjin]

^ :rolleyes:

[mgarba]

I'm with the paramedics on this one.

They deserve the pay, it sure as hell isn't an easy job.

Besides if you are against them taking this tactic, than complain to your damn government and get them to put a good deal on the table.

I'm sick of this stupid government we have in place.

[PiuYi]

Tell me, what amount of money will equate to a life? Or maybe 2 lives? How about every single life that is lost in BC for this "desperate times for desperate measures"?


exactly. so whats a raise if it'll get these ppl to go back to saving lives?

i'd hate to see somebody die because the gov't was too jewbag to give these paramedics what they deserve

[CRS]

exactly. so whats a raise if it'll get these ppl to go back to saving lives?

i'd hate to see somebody die because the gov't was too jewbag to give these paramedics what they deserve

Ugh, no.

Let's say that this "tactic" worked. And the paramedics got a raise. What happens if say the firefighters have to go on strike and they pull the same stunt? Hey, lets like fires be fires and burn and see those "jewbag" government officials make the next move.

This is retarded. If you seriously think that this is a way to go about protesting, you need to re-access your life.

I would hate to see somebody die because some paramedic thinks they deserve more money rather than saving someone's life. This was something the paramedics chose to do.

[marc0lishuz]

Police and Firefighters (who are also part of Essential Services) got hefty raises a long while ago. Paramedics didn't. They are only asking to be on par with those other services because they, too, are exposed to risks DAILY.

And BC is one of the lowest-paid regions for Paramedics in NORTH AMERICA.


PS - I don't see a big hissy fit when teachers walk off the job! And hey, they've done that TONS of times.

[Great68]

PS - I don't see a big hissy fit when teachers walk off the job! And hey, they've done that TONS of times.

There WAS a big hissy fit when the Teachers "illegally" walked off the job. Mostly because people were inconvenienced by having to find someone else to babysit their kids. Hard to believe teaching is an essential service, but that's a topic for another thread.

[StylinRed]

lil kids arent going to die cuz their teachers arent teaching them what 3 divided by 5 is

[Great68]

So how many people gave the paramedics' cause a second thought when they were legally on strike?

Hardly anyone. No one cared. Why? Because they still had to work. No one was really inconvenienced. Completely ineffective.

So what can they do to get Effective positive attention now? Something that will get the public to rally around them demanding the government give them what they deserve? Something that won't get the bitches screaming "SOMEONE MIGHT DIE! SOMEONE MIGHT DIE!"

Nothing.

[Canadian Rider]

Ok, I am a paramedic working in the interior at a "fox" station. I have 4 years in with no benifits (you don't get them until you can go full time and with that you HAVE to pack up and move to vancouver) or until after 7 years. Health care worker with no health benifits? I work over 40 hours a week at the station and am on par to make maybe $36,000 this year... I still have not paid off my student loans from 3-4 years ago because I don't make enough. In fact I have gone farther into debt because I want to help people.

I don't have the time to write out everything that we're working for or what is going on but you can ask me any questions you want and I'll answer them.

As for the ambulances in Vancouver that went down.. that was not the union.. at least 1/3 of that were regular bookoffs due to sickness/injury.. 1/3 of that was them not being able to fill the overtime shifts they normally fill because for once in this career we're saying we actually want a life and it's hard to help out the company by filling shifts for them after they proceeded to fuck us.. and the other 1/3 well that could of been an effort between some dumb ass union rebelling paramedics I don't know because I don't work down there.. But the union did proceed to send a threatening email after that saying no more.
It's funny how much the media is controlled by the gov. and of course they want to make us look bad rather then it be on themselves. But "50 paramedics calling in sick right before their shifts as a union effort" is complete BS.

Questions?

[Chicken Balls]

So how many people gave the paramedics' cause a second thought when they were legally on strike?

Hardly anyone. No one cared. Why? Because they still had to work. No one was really inconvenienced. Completely ineffective.

So what can they do to get Effective positive attention now? Something that will get the public to rally around them demanding the government give them what they deserve? Something that won't get the bitches screaming "SOMEONE MIGHT DIE! SOMEONE MIGHT DIE!"

Nothing.

maybe CRS knows? he seems to be following up on this topic really well...

Wait, he hasn't given a single suggestion!

[nsmb]

You can go and fuck yourselves.

haha wow

[StylinRed]

Ok, I am a paramedic working in the interior at a "fox" station. I have 4 years in with no benifits (you don't get them until you can go full time and with that you HAVE to pack up and move to vancouver) or until after 7 years. Health care worker with no health benifits? I work over 40 hours a week at the station and am on par to make maybe $36,000 this year... I still have not paid off my student loans from 3-4 years ago because I don't make enough. In fact I have gone farther into debt because I want to help people.

I don't have the time to write out everything that we're working for or what is going on but you can ask me any questions you want and I'll answer them.


I dont think anyone here is questioning the fact that Paramedics need to get more for what they do, in terms of pay and benefits. Im pretty sure everyone here supports that effort.

What people are at issue with is this tactic of a coordinated walking-off the job, veiled as "oh we're just taking time off thats due to us.. there's no coordination by the union or anything of that nature". thats just bs not to mention a despicable tactic to take.

[Great68]

^ Daffy Duck in the house.

That's Dessssssthhhhpicable!

Hahaha

[Canadian Rider]

I dont think anyone here is questioning the fact that Paramedics need to get more for what they do, in terms of pay and benefits. Im pretty sure everyone here supports that effort.

What people are at issue with is this tactic of a coordinated walking-off the job, veiled as "oh we're just taking time off thats due to us.. there's no coordination by the union or anything of that nature". thats just bs not to mention a despicable tactic to take.

Once again, not the union, some employees that decided to take actions into their own hands. And also once again that was not even half the book offs. It's funny how BCAS now dropped all the charges against the union and employees because the Labour Board came into some very incriminating evidence about this "shortage" on BCAS's part.

[Lomac]

That is still not a justified cause. PEOPLE WILL FUCKING DIE BECAUSE OF YOUR PIECE OF SHIT "PROTEST".

Tell me, what amount of money will equate to a life? Or maybe 2 lives? How about every single life that is lost in BC for this "desperate times for desperate measures"?

If it were just, why don't the paramedics straight up come out and say "yeah, we all did call in and say we can't work at the very last moment to protest" but instead, they are hiding behind the union (who is BS in itself).

That shows that they know it is fucked up and shouldn't be doing it. If this is the mentality that the paramedics want to take, I am sure as hell not in for giving these people a raise. I mean seriously? Threaten us and harm those who need help and still demand a raise?

You can go and fuck yourselves.

Ugh, no.

Let's say that this "tactic" worked. And the paramedics got a raise. What happens if say the firefighters have to go on strike and they pull the same stunt? Hey, lets like fires be fires and burn and see those "jewbag" government officials make the next move.

This is retarded. If you seriously think that this is a way to go about protesting, you need to re-access your life.

I would hate to see somebody die because some paramedic thinks they deserve more money rather than saving someone's life. This was something the paramedics chose to do.

Okay, seriously... CRS, stop. Just stop. Step back, take a deep breath and think about what it'd be like to walk a mile in their shoes for a month, a week, even a day. I have/had friends and family members work as paramedics and the one thing they all agreed upon was that their line of work was horrendously stressful, partially due to the hours that were more or less forced on them, and partially due to the emotional stress that's part and parcel with the job.

A cousin of mine was a paramedic for fifteen years before he quit. The ultimate reason came down to the fact that the amount of physical and emotional stress that comes with typically being one of the first people onto a scene doesn't correspond with the wages that he made. Yes, he knew what he was getting into when he signed up for the job, but that frankly "knowing" and actually experiencing it are two completely different things. Because of where he was based, he was almost always the first responder to a traffic accident or homicide or any other sort of incident that required his presence. There's a lot that he refuses to talk about, but I do know that much of what he had seen put a huge emotional toll on him. And because he was basically forced into overtime, his family life suffered horribly as a result.

A buddy of mine is a Whistler S&R leader. He enjoys helping and saving people. He's experienced with human trauma, death, life threatening injuries, etc, so he figured he'd be perfect to become a paramedic. Well, he did his schooling and applied for a job, only to find out that he would have absolutely zero health benefits for a few years, he'd basically be on call for 80 hours a week with no guarantee for actual work outside of the pager call wage, and wouldn't be able to pay off his student loans for at least five years. Needless to say he's now back in school to become a triage nurse.

CRS, you say that these paramedics are putting people's lives at risk by refusing to work? The majority of those people are simply refusing to work overtime hours. Why? Because they want an actual life. The government feels it's cheaper to force someone to work a shit load of overtime and risk them burning out instead of hiring more employees to help unload the stress from existing members. Where's the logic in that? The paramedics have been on strike, but were working. Something about only refusing to do all of their paperwork while on strike. But I don't think anyone really noticed or cared about it. It's only now that they're actually threatening to do something that people are knee jerking their responses.

How do you expect people to act when every time they do something that's still in the best interests of everyone involved, they get ignored? There comes a breaking point where you need to do something a little more drastic.

[Gt-R R34]

in my own head, what made me side with the paramedics was this fact here:

We know walking off has a chance at costing a life, but i thought in their shoes, counting everything, financials, family, everything. What the hell was their living standards to their lives, they are here to help save lives, but what about their own. How many divorces, lost time with their children's soccer game or even just random day out to the shopping mall with the kids has these men and women lost?

Has the people that felt so passionate about that it was "WRONG". But if you work a gazillion hours a week, not get paid enough, and still have to help out in the family, is it worth it?

Thats why i side with the paramedics, they god damn deserve to get what they want in wages, hours and benefits.

[StylinRed]

^ Daffy Duck in the house.

That's Dessssssthhhhpicable!

Hahaha

rofl that actually came to mind when i typed it ;)





and i think you guys backing them taking time off might be missing something...

its not that they're taking time off that is the issue....if they typically took their time-off that was due to them no one would care; its the fact that they decided to do it at the same time with the purpose of fucking shit up, a coordinated effort to throw things in disarray...

[CRS]

Okay, seriously... CRS, stop. Just stop. Step back, take a deep breath and think about what it'd be like to walk a mile in their shoes for a month, a week, even a day. I have/had friends and family members work as paramedics and the one thing they all agreed upon was that their line of work was horrendously stressful, partially due to the hours that were more or less forced on them, and partially due to the emotional stress that's part and parcel with the job.

A cousin of mine was a paramedic for fifteen years before he quit. The ultimate reason came down to the fact that the amount of physical and emotional stress that comes with typically being one of the first people onto a scene doesn't correspond with the wages that he made. Yes, he knew what he was getting into when he signed up for the job, but that frankly "knowing" and actually experiencing it are two completely different things. Because of where he was based, he was almost always the first responder to a traffic accident or homicide or any other sort of incident that required his presence. There's a lot that he refuses to talk about, but I do know that much of what he had seen put a huge emotional toll on him. And because he was basically forced into overtime, his family life suffered horribly as a result.

A buddy of mine is a Whistler S&R leader. He enjoys helping and saving people. He's experienced with human trauma, death, life threatening injuries, etc, so he figured he'd be perfect to become a paramedic. Well, he did his schooling and applied for a job, only to find out that he would have absolutely zero health benefits for a few years, he'd basically be on call for 80 hours a week with no guarantee for actual work outside of the pager call wage, and wouldn't be able to pay off his student loans for at least five years. Needless to say he's now back in school to become a triage nurse.

CRS, you say that these paramedics are putting people's lives at risk by refusing to work? The majority of those people are simply refusing to work overtime hours. Why? Because they want an actual life. The government feels it's cheaper to force someone to work a shit load of overtime and risk them burning out instead of hiring more employees to help unload the stress from existing members. Where's the logic in that? The paramedics have been on strike, but were working. Something about only refusing to do all of their paperwork while on strike. But I don't think anyone really noticed or cared about it. It's only now that they're actually threatening to do something that people are knee jerking their responses.

How do you expect people to act when every time they do something that's still in the best interests of everyone involved, they get ignored? There comes a breaking point where you need to do something a little more drastic.

I'm not saying that they don't have fucked up conditions. I'll all for giving them a raise but the fact of the matter is that some would decided to walk off the job in a co-ordinated manner.

I'm simply saying if they did choose to walk off, that is fucked up.

I feel for their cause but not at risk for lives lost in the public.