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11-30-2009, 12:07 AM
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#1 | | y'all better put some respeck on my name
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| Swiss ban mosque minarets in surprise vote
  Quote:
GENEVA – Swiss voters overwhelmingly approved a constitutional ban on minarets on Sunday, barring construction of the iconic mosque towers in a surprise vote that put Switzerland at the forefront of a European backlash against a growing Muslim population.
Muslim groups in Switzerland and abroad condemned the vote as biased and anti-Islamic. Business groups said the decision hurt Switzerland's international standing and could damage relations with Muslim nations and wealthy investors who bank, travel and shop there.
"The Swiss have failed to give a clear signal for diversity, freedom of religion and human rights," said Omar Al-Rawi, integration representative of the Islamic Denomination in Austria, which said its reaction was "grief and deep disappointment."
About 300 people turned out for a spontaneous demonstration on the square outside parliament, holding up signs saying, "That is not my Switzerland," placing candles in front of a model of a minaret and making another minaret shape out of the candles themselves.
"We're sorry," said another sign. A young woman pinned to her jacket a piece of paper saying, "Swiss passport for sale."
The referendum by the nationalist Swiss People's Party labeled minarets as symbols of rising Muslim political power that could one day transform Switzerland into an Islamic nation. The initiative was approved 57.5 to 42.5 percent by some 2.67 million voters. Only four of the 26 cantons or states opposed the initiative, granting the double approval that makes it part of the Swiss constitution.
Muslims comprise about 6 percent of Switzerland's 7.5 million people. Many are refugees from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s and about one in 10 actively practices their religion, the government says.
The country's four standing minarets, which won't be affected by the ban, do not traditionally broadcast the call to prayer outside their own buildings.
The sponsors of the initiative provoked complaints of bias from local officials and human-rights group with campaign posters that showed minarets rising like missiles from the Swiss flag next to a fully veiled woman. Backers said the growing Muslim population was straining the country "because Muslims don't just practice religion."
"The minaret is a sign of political power and demand, comparable with whole-body covering by the burqa, tolerance of forced marriage and genital mutilation of girls," the sponsors said. They said Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan compared mosques to Islam's military barracks and called "the minarets our bayonets." Erdogan made the comment in citing an Islamic poem many years before he became prime minister.
Anxieties about growing Muslim minorities have rippled across Europe in recent years, leading to legal changes in some countries. There have been French moves to ban the full-length body covering known as the burqa. Some German states have introduced bans on head scarves for Muslim women teaching in public schools. Mosques and minaret construction projects in Sweden, France, Italy, Austria, Greece, Germany and Slovenia have been met by protests.
But the Swiss ban in minarets, sponsored by the country's largest political party, was one of the most extreme reactions.
"It's a sad day for freedom of religion," said Mohammed Shafiq, the chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, a British youth organization. "A constitutional amendment that's targeted towards one religious community is discriminatory and abhorrent."
He said he was concerned the decision could have reverberations in other European countries.
Amnesty International said the vote violated freedom of religion and would probably be overturned by the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.
The seven-member Cabinet that heads the Swiss government had spoken out strongly against the initiative but the government said it accepted the vote and would impose an immediate ban on minaret construction.
It said that "Muslims in Switzerland are able to practice their religion alone or in community with others, and live according to their beliefs just as before." It took the unusual step of issuing its press release in Arabic as well as German, French, Italian and English.
Sunday's results stood in stark contrast to opinion polls, last taken 10 days ago, that showed 37 percent supporting the proposal. Experts said before the vote that they feared Swiss had pretended during the polling that they opposed the ban because they didn't want to appear intolerant.
"The sponsors of the ban have achieved something everyone wanted to prevent, and that is to influence and change the relations to Muslims and their social integration in a negative way," said Taner Hatipoglu, president of the Federation of Islamic Organizations in Zurich. "Muslims indeed will not feel safe anymore."
The People's Party has campaigned mainly unsuccessfully in previous years against immigrants with campaign posters showing white sheep kicking a black sheep off the Swiss flag and another with brown hands grabbing eagerly for Swiss passports.
Geneva's main mosque was vandalized Thursday when someone threw a pot of pink paint at the entrance. Earlier this month, a vehicle with a loudspeaker drove through the area imitating a muezzin's call to prayer, and vandals damaged a mosaic when they threw cobblestones at the building.
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11-30-2009, 12:47 AM
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#2 | | The sound of inevitability
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Jah Gekko  | who cares, maybe now they'll realize what they're doing to christians in the middle east and smarten the fuck up.
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11-30-2009, 03:22 AM
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#3 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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read about this earlier, Im surprised at the racism and prejudices spewing out of Europe these days
they've been warned too that this move would be against international law
didnt read the report you quoted but i read this vote for banning has sparked hate crimes that werent even present before
so pathetic Quote:
Originally Posted by The7even who cares, maybe now they'll realize what they're doing to christians in the middle east and smarten the fuck up. | are you equating Saudi Arabia with an entire religion? whose members, also, far exceed the number of Saudi Arabians out there? and are in fact mostly asian... are you saying two wrongs make a right? are you placing Switzerland at the same level or barbarity as Saudi Arabia?
Last edited by StylinRed; 11-30-2009 at 03:41 AM.
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11-30-2009, 05:48 AM
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#4 | | The sound of inevitability
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed read about this earlier, Im surprised at the racism and prejudices spewing out of Europe these days
they've been warned too that this move would be against international law
didnt read the report you quoted but i read this vote for banning has sparked hate crimes that werent even present before
so pathetic
are you equating Saudi Arabia with an entire religion? whose members, also, far exceed the number of Saudi Arabians out there? and are in fact mostly asian... are you saying two wrongs make a right? are you placing Switzerland at the same level or barbarity as Saudi Arabia? | ....
What I'm doing is nothing you've mentioned.
Muslims in the mid east treat people of other religions unfairly.
Christians in Iraq, Iran , Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Lybia , Palestine , etc.
ALL treated unfairly.
I'm well aware what the Muslim majority is comprised of.. and I'm aware of SA's backward ways and the Swiss are much more leniant than the retarded Saudi's... I'm not sure where you're going with your argument.
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The only ocean creature you can call yourself is the giant squid. He's the destroyer of ships, and the eater of seamen. At least you share one of those traits. -Hypa
mixed girls that look predominatly asian with subtle caucasian features=what i'd give my left nut for
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11-30-2009, 06:21 AM
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#5 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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i was just trying to understand ur comment
why would u mention Palestine??? are you considering the ottoman empire for some sort of acts against christians? most scholars seem to claim that the mass exodus of christians was due to poverty and finally israels violence that drove them out. currently the news shows what christians that are there are on good terms with palestinians
(i think the last modern issue was a political one, when the lebanese christians walked into a refugee camp and killed thousands of muslim palestinians due to the death of their political leader)
as for Coptic Christians in Egypt from what i understand (even the Pope of the coptic church suggests) is that the sectarian violence is blown out of proportion by the media, and judging by the fact that Coptic christians are in government and even own their own television station im willing to believe him
(as i dont know much about the current issues except for what must only be partial truths and propaganda from US Coptic lobbyists)
for Sudan... if you look into it the Christians started horrific acts themselves but with the Sudanese, they're crazy Africans with their own cultural issues that were increased due to the addition of religion, i dont think you can really blame religion with this issue it just seems like tool that was added into the already fucked up mix
these issues are going to come down to who you want to believe.
Also since you're suggesting that no1 should care because middle-eastern muslims are doing it too... shouldn't you also say then "who cares about what middle-eastern countries are doing to christians, considering all the fucked up shit christians have done to them" ?
for the main point of Switzerland.. don't you expect more from them though? (if i were to agree with middle-eastern mistreatment of christians that is) and it doesnt change the fact that what they're doing is fucked up.
sorry i dont think i made much sense... i really need to stop making posts when its 7am and i havent gone to bed yet
Last edited by StylinRed; 11-30-2009 at 06:28 AM.
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11-30-2009, 07:35 AM
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#6 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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In the past, religion is what brought people together.
Today, religion is what will tear them apart.
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11-30-2009, 07:48 AM
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#7 | | The Lone Wanderator
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by adambomb In the past, religion is what brought people together.
Today, religion is what will tear them apart. | No, it is today what it always has been: bringing people together in order to tear each other apart. Posted via RS Mobile | |
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11-30-2009, 08:41 AM
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#8 | | Da Vinci's real masterpiece: The Mona Diesel
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Originally Posted by adambomb In the past, religion is what brought people together.
Today, religion is what will tear them apart. | In the past, religion was the excuse for mass genocide and wars: ie crusade
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11-30-2009, 09:28 AM
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#9 | | Official Texas Ambassador
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| Quote: |
Muslims comprise about 6 percent of Switzerland's 7.5 million people. Many are refugees from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s and about one in 10 actively practices their religion, the government says.
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So we're talking about 4500 people here? Or is my math way off?
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11-30-2009, 10:55 AM
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#10 | | Need to Seek Professional Help
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Originally Posted by StylinRed i was just trying to understand ur comment
why would u mention Palestine??? are you considering the ottoman empire for some sort of acts against christians? most scholars seem to claim that the mass exodus of christians was due to poverty and finally israels violence that drove them out. currently the news shows what christians that are there are on good terms with palestinians
(i think the last modern issue was a political one, when the lebanese christians walked into a refugee camp and killed thousands of muslim palestinians due to the death of their political leader)
as for Coptic Christians in Egypt from what i understand (even the Pope of the coptic church suggests) is that the sectarian violence is blown out of proportion by the media, and judging by the fact that Coptic christians are in government and even own their own television station im willing to believe him
(as i dont know much about the current issues except for what must only be partial truths and propaganda from US Coptic lobbyists)
for Sudan... if you look into it the Christians started horrific acts themselves but with the Sudanese, they're crazy Africans with their own cultural issues that were increased due to the addition of religion, i dont think you can really blame religion with this issue it just seems like tool that was added into the already fucked up mix
these issues are going to come down to who you want to believe.
Also since you're suggesting that no1 should care because middle-eastern muslims are doing it too... shouldn't you also say then "who cares about what middle-eastern countries are doing to christians, considering all the fucked up shit christians have done to them" ?
for the main point of Switzerland.. don't you expect more from them though? (if i were to agree with middle-eastern mistreatment of christians that is) and it doesnt change the fact that what they're doing is fucked up.
sorry i dont think i made much sense... i really need to stop making posts when its 7am and i havent gone to bed yet | Have you ever talked to a palestinian christian? Especially in recent times?
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Surf, Party, Sleep.
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11-30-2009, 11:02 AM
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#11 | | My dinner reheated before my turbo spooled
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Originally Posted by El Bastardo So we're talking about 4500 people here? Or is my math way off? | 45,000 I think
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11-30-2009, 12:00 PM
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#12 | | Official Texas Ambassador
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Originally Posted by Bali Vince 45,000 I think | I think you're right, yeah. 450k Swiss Muslims, 10% of those are actively practicing.
So with 45,000 practicing Muslims did they truly expect to win a democratic vote? Even if you had all of the (estimated) Muslims voting (450,000) with a 10% margin of error (an additional 45,000 people) its less than half a million people in a country of roughly 7 million.
This is how 21st century European society works. Democracy prevailed. The vote (by the people, not the government) passed.
2.1 (roughly) million people said no. Nuff said.
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11-30-2009, 12:34 PM
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#13 | | My homepage has been set to RS
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Originally Posted by El Bastardo I think you're right, yeah. 450k Swiss Muslims, 10% of those are actively practicing.
So with 45,000 practicing Muslims did they truly expect to win a democratic vote? Even if you had all of the (estimated) Muslims voting (450,000) with a 10% margin of error (an additional 45,000 people) its less than half a million people in a country of roughly 7 million.
This is how 21st century European society works. Democracy prevailed. The vote (by the people, not the government) passed.
2.1 (roughly) million people said no. Nuff said. | It's a bit of a sad day to see this, but I kind of hate to say that the quiet majority won for once. Usually it's the loud minority that rocks the vote and gets everything their way. I know, blanket statement, but you see the point I'm trying to make.
__________________ Quote: Originally posted by CRS
I would make a comment in regards to your intelligence but I don't think that you would appreciate the full mockery of that comment.
In other words..
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11-30-2009, 01:36 PM
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#14 | | Banned By Establishment
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Originally Posted by Jsunu In the past, religion was the excuse for mass genocide and wars: ie crusade | holy fucking shit you are a dumbass.
GOVERNMENTS, have been responsible for more murders/genocide than any ONE religion TO DATE.
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11-30-2009, 01:37 PM
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#15 | | Banned By Establishment
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Originally Posted by StylinRed i was just trying to understand ur comment
why would u mention Palestine??? are you considering the ottoman empire for some sort of acts against christians? most scholars seem to claim that the mass exodus of christians was due to poverty and finally israels violence that drove them out. currently the news shows what christians that are there are on good terms with palestinians
(i think the last modern issue was a political one, when the lebanese christians walked into a refugee camp and killed thousands of muslim palestinians due to the death of their political leader)
as for Coptic Christians in Egypt from what i understand (even the Pope of the coptic church suggests) is that the sectarian violence is blown out of proportion by the media, and judging by the fact that Coptic christians are in government and even own their own television station im willing to believe him
(as i dont know much about the current issues except for what must only be partial truths and propaganda from US Coptic lobbyists)
for Sudan... if you look into it the Christians started horrific acts themselves but with the Sudanese, they're crazy Africans with their own cultural issues that were increased due to the addition of religion, i dont think you can really blame religion with this issue it just seems like tool that was added into the already fucked up mix
these issues are going to come down to who you want to believe.
Also since you're suggesting that no1 should care because middle-eastern muslims are doing it too... shouldn't you also say then "who cares about what middle-eastern countries are doing to christians, considering all the fucked up shit christians have done to them" ?
for the main point of Switzerland.. don't you expect more from them though? (if i were to agree with middle-eastern mistreatment of christians that is) and it doesnt change the fact that what they're doing is fucked up.
sorry i dont think i made much sense... i really need to stop making posts when its 7am and i havent gone to bed yet | June 2009 national geographic. Educate yourself.
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11-30-2009, 02:40 PM
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#16 | | Da Vinci's real masterpiece: The Mona Diesel
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Originally Posted by MajinHurricane holy fucking shit you are a dumbass.
GOVERNMENTS, have been responsible for more murders/genocide than any ONE religion TO DATE. | That still doesnt negate the fact that it has been historically responsible for attroticies in the past. I am not arguing that religion IN ITSELF causes these things per say. In fact, governments have often used religion as justification. What I am just saying that religion did not foster cooperation between people in the past, of which this poster was indicating.
I didn't argue that government mass genocide < religious imperative. But go ahead, make more strawman/ad-hoc arguments.
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11-30-2009, 06:11 PM
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#17 | | Banned By Establishment
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Originally Posted by Jsunu That still doesnt negate the fact that it has been historically responsible for attroticies in the past. I am not arguing that religion IN ITSELF causes these things per say. In fact, governments have often used religion as justification. What I am just saying that religion did not foster cooperation between people in the past, of which this poster was indicating.
I didn't argue that government mass genocide < religious imperative. But go ahead, make more strawman/ad-hoc arguments. |
Pol pot, hitler, Lenin, stalin, mao
/thread Posted via RS Mobile | |
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11-30-2009, 06:15 PM
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#18 | | Banned By Establishment
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Turks too Posted via RS Mobile | |
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11-30-2009, 07:42 PM
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#19 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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if the swiss were worried about radical islams before, they damn sure have a reason to be worried now
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11-30-2009, 08:00 PM
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#20 | | y'all better put some respeck on my name
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11-30-2009, 08:16 PM
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#21 | | Official Texas Ambassador
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God.. why the fuck does that article have a "human rights" tag to it. Switzerland isn't repressing the right to worship, they passed a building code referendum. Vancouver's bleeding heart bullshit hippie population makes me embarrassed at times.
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11-30-2009, 08:52 PM
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#22 | | My homepage has been set to RS
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right wing parties are on the rise in europe ,, this is just the start...
and dont they have church's that have similar kinda towers with cross on them .. like we do here...  | |
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11-30-2009, 10:09 PM
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#23 | | The sound of inevitability
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed
Also since you're suggesting that no1 should care because middle-eastern muslims are doing it too... shouldn't you also say then "who cares about what middle-eastern countries are doing to christians, considering all the fucked up shit christians have done to them" ?
| What exactly have they done recently ? They have barely any rights there, don't kidd your self.
And Muslims really don't give a shit what happens to Christians in the middle east anyway.. that's actually what pisses me off.
One single little thing happens to upset the muslims in europe and they cry, but to what their governments are doing to christians , they turn a blind eye.
Fuck that. A lot of muslims are full of shit, just like their counterparts .
The thing that pisses me off the most is that only the muslims believe their own bullshit.
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The only ocean creature you can call yourself is the giant squid. He's the destroyer of ships, and the eater of seamen. At least you share one of those traits. -Hypa
mixed girls that look predominatly asian with subtle caucasian features=what i'd give my left nut for
-6chr0nic4 | |
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11-30-2009, 10:27 PM
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#24 | | y'all better put some respeck on my name
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The sad reality is that far right parties in the EU are also been supported by non-whites because of their hatred towards Muslims. I have friends and family in the UK that want to leave the UK because of Muslims. I've had visitors from the UK openly make racist comments about Muslims infront of me and how much they hate them.
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11-30-2009, 10:40 PM
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#25 | | Official Texas Ambassador
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Muslims can be their own worst enemy. I understand that not each one conforms to the stereotype but I can easily list some acts taken in the name of Islam over the last couple of years. The guy who ran over his daughter in Arizona because she was "too American", the TV station owner who beheaded his wife in upstate New York, the Fort Hood shootings, the attempted invasion of Fort Dix, etc etc etc.....
If Islam doesn't want to be seen in a bad light it needs to condemn these actions and speak out against them to hopefully prevent similar things from happening in the future.
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