[Harvey Specter]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20091119/i/r4044789016.jpg?

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091127/capt.e657083364b14595a06fb0f6a76ff67f.switzerland_ minaret_ban_che402.jpg?x=235&y=345&q=85&sig=iDEF9TMRNW8QmVGo9qeZ6w--


GENEVA – Swiss voters overwhelmingly approved a constitutional ban on minarets on Sunday, barring construction of the iconic mosque towers in a surprise vote that put Switzerland at the forefront of a European backlash against a growing Muslim population.

Muslim groups in Switzerland and abroad condemned the vote as biased and anti-Islamic. Business groups said the decision hurt Switzerland's international standing and could damage relations with Muslim nations and wealthy investors who bank, travel and shop there.

"The Swiss have failed to give a clear signal for diversity, freedom of religion and human rights," said Omar Al-Rawi, integration representative of the Islamic Denomination in Austria, which said its reaction was "grief and deep disappointment."

About 300 people turned out for a spontaneous demonstration on the square outside parliament, holding up signs saying, "That is not my Switzerland," placing candles in front of a model of a minaret and making another minaret shape out of the candles themselves.

"We're sorry," said another sign. A young woman pinned to her jacket a piece of paper saying, "Swiss passport for sale."

The referendum by the nationalist Swiss People's Party labeled minarets as symbols of rising Muslim political power that could one day transform Switzerland into an Islamic nation. The initiative was approved 57.5 to 42.5 percent by some 2.67 million voters. Only four of the 26 cantons or states opposed the initiative, granting the double approval that makes it part of the Swiss constitution.

Muslims comprise about 6 percent of Switzerland's 7.5 million people. Many are refugees from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s and about one in 10 actively practices their religion, the government says.

The country's four standing minarets, which won't be affected by the ban, do not traditionally broadcast the call to prayer outside their own buildings.

The sponsors of the initiative provoked complaints of bias from local officials and human-rights group with campaign posters that showed minarets rising like missiles from the Swiss flag next to a fully veiled woman. Backers said the growing Muslim population was straining the country "because Muslims don't just practice religion."

"The minaret is a sign of political power and demand, comparable with whole-body covering by the burqa, tolerance of forced marriage and genital mutilation of girls," the sponsors said. They said Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan compared mosques to Islam's military barracks and called "the minarets our bayonets." Erdogan made the comment in citing an Islamic poem many years before he became prime minister.

Anxieties about growing Muslim minorities have rippled across Europe in recent years, leading to legal changes in some countries. There have been French moves to ban the full-length body covering known as the burqa. Some German states have introduced bans on head scarves for Muslim women teaching in public schools. Mosques and minaret construction projects in Sweden, France, Italy, Austria, Greece, Germany and Slovenia have been met by protests.

But the Swiss ban in minarets, sponsored by the country's largest political party, was one of the most extreme reactions.

"It's a sad day for freedom of religion," said Mohammed Shafiq, the chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, a British youth organization. "A constitutional amendment that's targeted towards one religious community is discriminatory and abhorrent."

He said he was concerned the decision could have reverberations in other European countries.

Amnesty International said the vote violated freedom of religion and would probably be overturned by the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.

The seven-member Cabinet that heads the Swiss government had spoken out strongly against the initiative but the government said it accepted the vote and would impose an immediate ban on minaret construction.

It said that "Muslims in Switzerland are able to practice their religion alone or in community with others, and live according to their beliefs just as before." It took the unusual step of issuing its press release in Arabic as well as German, French, Italian and English.

Sunday's results stood in stark contrast to opinion polls, last taken 10 days ago, that showed 37 percent supporting the proposal. Experts said before the vote that they feared Swiss had pretended during the polling that they opposed the ban because they didn't want to appear intolerant.

"The sponsors of the ban have achieved something everyone wanted to prevent, and that is to influence and change the relations to Muslims and their social integration in a negative way," said Taner Hatipoglu, president of the Federation of Islamic Organizations in Zurich. "Muslims indeed will not feel safe anymore."

The People's Party has campaigned mainly unsuccessfully in previous years against immigrants with campaign posters showing white sheep kicking a black sheep off the Swiss flag and another with brown hands grabbing eagerly for Swiss passports.

Geneva's main mosque was vandalized Thursday when someone threw a pot of pink paint at the entrance. Earlier this month, a vehicle with a loudspeaker drove through the area imitating a muezzin's call to prayer, and vandals damaged a mosaic when they threw cobblestones at the building.

[The7even]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20091119/i/r4044789016.jpg?

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091127/capt.e657083364b14595a06fb0f6a76ff67f.switzerland_ minaret_ban_che402.jpg?x=235&y=345&q=85&sig=iDEF9TMRNW8QmVGo9qeZ6w--

who cares, maybe now they'll realize what they're doing to christians in the middle east and smarten the fuck up.

[StylinRed]

read about this earlier, Im surprised at the racism and prejudices spewing out of Europe these days

they've been warned too that this move would be against international law


didnt read the report you quoted but i read this vote for banning has sparked hate crimes that werent even present before

so pathetic


who cares, maybe now they'll realize what they're doing to christians in the middle east and smarten the fuck up.

are you equating Saudi Arabia with an entire religion? whose members, also, far exceed the number of Saudi Arabians out there? and are in fact mostly asian... are you saying two wrongs make a right? are you placing Switzerland at the same level or barbarity as Saudi Arabia?

[The7even]

read about this earlier, Im surprised at the racism and prejudices spewing out of Europe these days

they've been warned too that this move would be against international law


didnt read the report you quoted but i read this vote for banning has sparked hate crimes that werent even present before

so pathetic




are you equating Saudi Arabia with an entire religion? whose members, also, far exceed the number of Saudi Arabians out there? and are in fact mostly asian... are you saying two wrongs make a right? are you placing Switzerland at the same level or barbarity as Saudi Arabia?

....

What I'm doing is nothing you've mentioned.

Muslims in the mid east treat people of other religions unfairly.
Christians in Iraq, Iran , Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Lybia , Palestine , etc.
ALL treated unfairly.

I'm well aware what the Muslim majority is comprised of.. and I'm aware of SA's backward ways and the Swiss are much more leniant than the retarded Saudi's... I'm not sure where you're going with your argument.

[StylinRed]

i was just trying to understand ur comment


why would u mention Palestine??? are you considering the ottoman empire for some sort of acts against christians? most scholars seem to claim that the mass exodus of christians was due to poverty and finally israels violence that drove them out. currently the news shows what christians that are there are on good terms with palestinians
(i think the last modern issue was a political one, when the lebanese christians walked into a refugee camp and killed thousands of muslim palestinians due to the death of their political leader)

as for Coptic Christians in Egypt from what i understand (even the Pope of the coptic church suggests) is that the sectarian violence is blown out of proportion by the media, and judging by the fact that Coptic christians are in government and even own their own television station im willing to believe him
(as i dont know much about the current issues except for what must only be partial truths and propaganda from US Coptic lobbyists)

for Sudan... if you look into it the Christians started horrific acts themselves but with the Sudanese, they're crazy Africans with their own cultural issues that were increased due to the addition of religion, i dont think you can really blame religion with this issue it just seems like tool that was added into the already fucked up mix


these issues are going to come down to who you want to believe.


Also since you're suggesting that no1 should care because middle-eastern muslims are doing it too... shouldn't you also say then "who cares about what middle-eastern countries are doing to christians, considering all the fucked up shit christians have done to them" ?



for the main point of Switzerland.. don't you expect more from them though? (if i were to agree with middle-eastern mistreatment of christians that is) and it doesnt change the fact that what they're doing is fucked up.


sorry i dont think i made much sense... i really need to stop making posts when its 7am and i havent gone to bed yet

[adambomb]

In the past, religion is what brought people together.
Today, religion is what will tear them apart.

[Graeme S]

In the past, religion is what brought people together.
Today, religion is what will tear them apart.

No, it is today what it always has been: bringing people together in order to tear each other apart.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Jsunu]

In the past, religion is what brought people together.
Today, religion is what will tear them apart.

In the past, religion was the excuse for mass genocide and wars: ie crusade

[El Bastardo]

Muslims comprise about 6 percent of Switzerland's 7.5 million people. Many are refugees from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s and about one in 10 actively practices their religion, the government says.


So we're talking about 4500 people here? Or is my math way off?

[m!chael]

i was just trying to understand ur comment


why would u mention Palestine??? are you considering the ottoman empire for some sort of acts against christians? most scholars seem to claim that the mass exodus of christians was due to poverty and finally israels violence that drove them out. currently the news shows what christians that are there are on good terms with palestinians
(i think the last modern issue was a political one, when the lebanese christians walked into a refugee camp and killed thousands of muslim palestinians due to the death of their political leader)

as for Coptic Christians in Egypt from what i understand (even the Pope of the coptic church suggests) is that the sectarian violence is blown out of proportion by the media, and judging by the fact that Coptic christians are in government and even own their own television station im willing to believe him
(as i dont know much about the current issues except for what must only be partial truths and propaganda from US Coptic lobbyists)

for Sudan... if you look into it the Christians started horrific acts themselves but with the Sudanese, they're crazy Africans with their own cultural issues that were increased due to the addition of religion, i dont think you can really blame religion with this issue it just seems like tool that was added into the already fucked up mix


these issues are going to come down to who you want to believe.


Also since you're suggesting that no1 should care because middle-eastern muslims are doing it too... shouldn't you also say then "who cares about what middle-eastern countries are doing to christians, considering all the fucked up shit christians have done to them" ?



for the main point of Switzerland.. don't you expect more from them though? (if i were to agree with middle-eastern mistreatment of christians that is) and it doesnt change the fact that what they're doing is fucked up.


sorry i dont think i made much sense... i really need to stop making posts when its 7am and i havent gone to bed yet

Have you ever talked to a palestinian christian? Especially in recent times?

[BinsentoW]

So we're talking about 4500 people here? Or is my math way off?

45,000 I think

[El Bastardo]

45,000 I think

I think you're right, yeah. 450k Swiss Muslims, 10% of those are actively practicing.

So with 45,000 practicing Muslims did they truly expect to win a democratic vote? Even if you had all of the (estimated) Muslims voting (450,000) with a 10% margin of error (an additional 45,000 people) its less than half a million people in a country of roughly 7 million.

This is how 21st century European society works. Democracy prevailed. The vote (by the people, not the government) passed.

2.1 (roughly) million people said no. Nuff said.

[TekDragon]

I think you're right, yeah. 450k Swiss Muslims, 10% of those are actively practicing.

So with 45,000 practicing Muslims did they truly expect to win a democratic vote? Even if you had all of the (estimated) Muslims voting (450,000) with a 10% margin of error (an additional 45,000 people) its less than half a million people in a country of roughly 7 million.

This is how 21st century European society works. Democracy prevailed. The vote (by the people, not the government) passed.

2.1 (roughly) million people said no. Nuff said.

It's a bit of a sad day to see this, but I kind of hate to say that the quiet majority won for once. Usually it's the loud minority that rocks the vote and gets everything their way. I know, blanket statement, but you see the point I'm trying to make.

[Meowjin]

In the past, religion was the excuse for mass genocide and wars: ie crusade

holy fucking shit you are a dumbass.

GOVERNMENTS, have been responsible for more murders/genocide than any ONE religion TO DATE.

[Meowjin]

i was just trying to understand ur comment


why would u mention Palestine??? are you considering the ottoman empire for some sort of acts against christians? most scholars seem to claim that the mass exodus of christians was due to poverty and finally israels violence that drove them out. currently the news shows what christians that are there are on good terms with palestinians
(i think the last modern issue was a political one, when the lebanese christians walked into a refugee camp and killed thousands of muslim palestinians due to the death of their political leader)

as for Coptic Christians in Egypt from what i understand (even the Pope of the coptic church suggests) is that the sectarian violence is blown out of proportion by the media, and judging by the fact that Coptic christians are in government and even own their own television station im willing to believe him
(as i dont know much about the current issues except for what must only be partial truths and propaganda from US Coptic lobbyists)

for Sudan... if you look into it the Christians started horrific acts themselves but with the Sudanese, they're crazy Africans with their own cultural issues that were increased due to the addition of religion, i dont think you can really blame religion with this issue it just seems like tool that was added into the already fucked up mix


these issues are going to come down to who you want to believe.


Also since you're suggesting that no1 should care because middle-eastern muslims are doing it too... shouldn't you also say then "who cares about what middle-eastern countries are doing to christians, considering all the fucked up shit christians have done to them" ?



for the main point of Switzerland.. don't you expect more from them though? (if i were to agree with middle-eastern mistreatment of christians that is) and it doesnt change the fact that what they're doing is fucked up.


sorry i dont think i made much sense... i really need to stop making posts when its 7am and i havent gone to bed yet

June 2009 national geographic. Educate yourself.

[Jsunu]

holy fucking shit you are a dumbass.

GOVERNMENTS, have been responsible for more murders/genocide than any ONE religion TO DATE.

That still doesnt negate the fact that it has been historically responsible for attroticies in the past. I am not arguing that religion IN ITSELF causes these things per say. In fact, governments have often used religion as justification. What I am just saying that religion did not foster cooperation between people in the past, of which this poster was indicating.

I didn't argue that government mass genocide < religious imperative. But go ahead, make more strawman/ad-hoc arguments.

[Meowjin]

That still doesnt negate the fact that it has been historically responsible for attroticies in the past. I am not arguing that religion IN ITSELF causes these things per say. In fact, governments have often used religion as justification. What I am just saying that religion did not foster cooperation between people in the past, of which this poster was indicating.

I didn't argue that government mass genocide < religious imperative. But go ahead, make more strawman/ad-hoc arguments.



Pol pot, hitler, Lenin, stalin, mao
/thread
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Meowjin]

Turks too
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[PiuYi]

if the swiss were worried about radical islams before, they damn sure have a reason to be worried now

[Harvey Specter]

Another view...........

http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/thesearch/archive/2009/11/30/swiss-ban-on-minarets-strange-way-to-preserve-a-culture.aspx

[El Bastardo]

God.. why the fuck does that article have a "human rights" tag to it. Switzerland isn't repressing the right to worship, they passed a building code referendum. Vancouver's bleeding heart bullshit hippie population makes me embarrassed at times.

[tool001]

right wing parties are on the rise in europe ,, this is just the start...

and dont they have church's that have similar kinda towers with cross on them .. like we do here...
http://www.whitton-church.org.uk/church%20exterior.jpg

[The7even]

Also since you're suggesting that no1 should care because middle-eastern muslims are doing it too... shouldn't you also say then "who cares about what middle-eastern countries are doing to christians, considering all the fucked up shit christians have done to them" ?





What exactly have they done recently ? They have barely any rights there, don't kidd your self.

And Muslims really don't give a shit what happens to Christians in the middle east anyway.. that's actually what pisses me off.
One single little thing happens to upset the muslims in europe and they cry, but to what their governments are doing to christians , they turn a blind eye.
Fuck that. A lot of muslims are full of shit, just like their counterparts .
The thing that pisses me off the most is that only the muslims believe their own bullshit.

[Harvey Specter]

The sad reality is that far right parties in the EU are also been supported by non-whites because of their hatred towards Muslims. I have friends and family in the UK that want to leave the UK because of Muslims. I've had visitors from the UK openly make racist comments about Muslims infront of me and how much they hate them.

[El Bastardo]

Muslims can be their own worst enemy. I understand that not each one conforms to the stereotype but I can easily list some acts taken in the name of Islam over the last couple of years. The guy who ran over his daughter in Arizona because she was "too American", the TV station owner who beheaded his wife in upstate New York, the Fort Hood shootings, the attempted invasion of Fort Dix, etc etc etc.....


If Islam doesn't want to be seen in a bad light it needs to condemn these actions and speak out against them to hopefully prevent similar things from happening in the future.

[impactX]

The sad reality is that far right parties in the EU are also been supported by non-whites because of their hatred towards Muslims. I have friends and family in the UK that want to leave the UK because of Muslims. I've had visitors from the UK openly make racist comments about Muslims infront of me and how much they hate them.

Just to clarify a point: Muslim isn't a race.

[Harvey Specter]

Well you know what I mean.

[StylinRed]

June 2009 national geographic. Educate yourself.

its about the exodus right? there's been reports by the BBC and papers by european profs that said the exodus was due to poverty for everyone there, not just christians but the muslims as well.. however the christians had more money to get out. that as well as the violence brought upon by israel (remember they also forced an exodus of christians etc)

however there seems to be another argument which blames the ottoman empire, etc, this argument is taken up more by america and israeli news media etc

so its not really a matter of "educating myself" but rather a "who do you want to believe" as there's two sides to the argument which seems to be British Scholars or America/Israel

[seakrait]

federal popular initiative started with 100,000 minimum signatures leads to national referendum. the initiative needed a double-majority to win and did. seems extremely democratic to me, more so than what we have here in Canada where the popular vote isn't necessarily the winning vote.

not that i'm agreeing with the initiative itself, mind you, but i do find their democratic process rather fascinating.

[Meowjin]

its about the exodus right? there's been reports by the BBC and papers by european profs that said the exodus was due to poverty for everyone there, not just christians but the muslims as well.. however the christians had more money to get out. that as well as the violence brought upon by israel (remember they also forced an exodus of christians etc)

however there seems to be another argument which blames the ottoman empire, etc, this argument is taken up more by america and israeli news media etc

so its not really a matter of "educating myself" but rather a "who do you want to believe" as there's two sides to the argument which seems to be British Scholars or America/Israel

my brother who is super religious (greek orthodox) went on a religious honeymoon to jordan, egypt, israel, etc.... and said that when he was in jordan our spiritual father (a bishop in an area of greece) was being spat on by zionists. alot of people seem to forget that there is a huge christian arab population... they just usally automatically assume muslim.

[Eastwood]

Islam is a violent religion. I must be the only one who thinks this goes beyond skin color.

[StylinRed]

my brother who is super religious (greek orthodox) went on a religious honeymoon to jordan, egypt, israel, etc.... and said that when he was in jordan our spiritual father (a bishop in an area of greece) was being spat on by zionists. alot of people seem to forget that there is a huge christian arab population... they just usally automatically assume muslim.

ah, yeah the arab jews experience racism as well from the european jews which is ridiculous since arabs are historically the first to become jews. hell they were researching a weapon they got from south africa that they wanted to use to target arabs.. regardless that it would kill their own

[StylinRed]

somewhat of an update


Vatican and Muslims condemn Swiss minaret ban vote

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46821000/jpg/_46821556_008306689-1.jpg
One of four minarets in Switzerland

There are only four minarets in Switzerland

Religious leaders across the world have criticised Switzerland's referendum vote to ban the building of minarets.

The Vatican joined Muslim figureheads from Indonesia and Egypt, as well as Switzerland, in denouncing the vote as a blow to religious freedom.

France's FM Bernard Kouchner expressed shock at the ban which, he said, showed "intolerance" and should be reversed.

But European right-wing groups welcomed the result, calling for other countries to take similar measures.

More than 57.5% of Swiss voters and 22 out of 26 cantons - or provinces - voted in favour of the ban on Sunday.

The proposal had been put forward by the Swiss People's Party (SVP), the largest party in parliament, which said minarets were a sign of Islamisation.

'Expression of intolerance'

The Vatican on Monday endorsed a statement by the conference of Swiss Bishops criticising the vote for heightening "the problems of cohabitation between religions and cultures".

Egypt's Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa described the ban as an insult to the feelings of the Muslim community in Switzerland and elsewhere.

Gavin Hewitt
Much of the concern is based on fear... There are only four minarets in Switzerland but there are widely-held concerns of society dividing into 'parallel communities'.
Gavin Hewitt

Gavin Hewitt's blog on Europe
Send us your comments
Minaret vote: Your views
Tough debate to follow Swiss ban

Sunday's surprise result also prompted dismay from secular leaders in Europe.

"I am a bit shocked by this decision," Mr Kouchner told France's RTL radio on Monday. "It is an expression of intolerance and I detest intolerance.

"I hope the Swiss will reverse this decision quickly."

But Marine Le Pen, the deputy-leader of France's far-right National Front, praised the outcome, and said France should now hold a wider referendum on multiculturalism.

"The elites should stop denying the hopes and fears of European peoples who, without opposing religious freedom, reject ostentatious symbols forced on them by politico-religious Muslim groups, often verging on provocation," she was quoted as saying by Agence France Presse.

In Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands, anti-immigrant movements called on their own governments to debate similar measures.

"What can be done in Switzerland, can be done here," said Geert Wilders, the head of the Freedom Party in the Netherlands.

Meanwhile Roberto Calderoli, a member of Italy's Northern League, which is part of the country's ruling coalition, said: "Switzerland is sending us a clear signal: yes to bell towers, no to minarets."

In recent years, countries across Europe have been debating how best to integrate Muslim populations.

France focused on the headscarf, while in Germany there was controversy over plans to build one of Europe's largest mosques.

Government ignored

The vote is very bad news for the Swiss government which fears unrest among the Muslim community, says the BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Bern.
Geert Wilders
Wilders welcomed the ban and called for the Netherlands to follow suit

The Swiss government had opposed the ban, saying it would harm Switzerland's image, particularly in the Muslim world.

Voters worried about rising immigration - and with it the rise of Islam - had ignored the government's advice, our correspondent adds.

The government said it accepted the decision, and that the construction of new minarets would no longer be permitted.

Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf said: "Concerns [about Islamic fundamentalism] have to be taken seriously.

"However, a ban on the construction of new minarets is not a feasible means of countering extremist tendencies."

She sought to reassure Swiss Muslims, saying the decision was "not a rejection of the Muslim community, religion or culture".

'Major problems'

Switzerland is home to some 400,000 Muslims and has just four minarets.

After Christianity, Islam is the most widespread religion in Switzerland, but it remains relatively hidden.
Bernard Kouchner, file pic from November 2009
Kouchner said he hoped the Swiss would reverse the decision

There are unofficial Muslim prayer rooms, and planning applications for new minarets are almost always refused.

Supporters of a ban claimed that allowing minarets would represent the growth of an ideology and a legal system - Sharia law - which are incompatible with Swiss democracy.

But others say the referendum campaign incited hatred. On Thursday the Geneva mosque was vandalised for the third time during the campaign, according to local media.

Amnesty International said the vote violated freedom of religion and would probably be overturned by the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.

The president of Zurich's Association of Muslim Organisations, Tamir Hadjipolu, told the BBC: "This will cause major problems because during this campaign mosques were attacked, which we never experienced in 40 years in Switzerland.

"Islamaphobia has increased intensively."

Sunday's referendum was held after the SVP collected 100,000 signatures from voters within 18 months calling for a vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8385893.stm



long read ;)

[Jsunu]

Pol pot, hitler, Lenin, stalin, mao
/thread
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

did you actually read my post?

[The7even]

Islam is a violent religion. I must be the only one who thinks this goes beyond skin color.

You're one stupid person.

[The7even]

If Islam doesn't want to be seen in a bad light it needs to condemn these actions and speak out against them to hopefully prevent similar things from happening in the future.

That's what I'm trying to explain to StylinRed and michael, who are really quick to defend anything Islam related without actually looking inward and asking the question 'are we also to blame' .

The two are like my mother who quickly jump to comparing christian faults to muslim faults almost immediately.
Stop that fucking shit, you're not some backward village people , are you?

Be open minded and ready to take criticism and when you're criticized, look how you can fucking improve your self as a muslim and NOT try to find a way to say "but look dood , christians do it too"
I'm so tired of that shit.

[The7even]

The sad reality is that far right parties in the EU are also been supported by non-whites because of their hatred towards Muslims. I have friends and family in the UK that want to leave the UK because of Muslims. I've had visitors from the UK openly make racist comments about Muslims infront of me and how much they hate them.

I'm not surprised.. I wouldn't want to live with those motherfuckers either.
I've seen the shit they do. They live in England, a Christian nation, and they try to impose their own laws onto the people..
The Quran it self states that if one is living in a foreign land, with foreign laws and customs, he/she is to abide by them.

If I were in charge, I would kick those faggots and send them back to pakistan or whereever they fucking came from.

They hold up signs that say 'england will burn'...
YOU'RE LIVING IN ENGLAND ASSHOLE!

Back in durka durka land he'd be hanged for saying shit like that..


I guess my case in point is.. don't ever, under any circumstances give freedom to a bunch of retarded apes.

[bengy]

They need to stop allowing immigration from middle eastern countries.

[Ferra]

I don't think the European "hate" muslim or middle-eastern people..it is just that these immigrants often come to their land, but instead of contributing and abiding to the country and its culture, they come here trying to change someone else culture into their own. (Look at Canada, we can't even have christmas tree in some places because it offends these people.)
To top it off, the majority of the middle-eastern population in Europe are refugees that leeches off the system instead of contributing to it.

So the vote turn out really isn't surprising. No one likes to have their culture and heritage eroded by some group of immigrants coming here seeking refugees.

If you want to stay at someone's house, you follow their rule. If you don't like the rule, move somewhere else.

[StylinRed]

I don't think the European "hate" muslim or middle-eastern people..it is just that these immigrants often come to their land, but instead of contributing and abiding to the country and its culture, they come here trying to change someone else culture into their own. (Look at Canada, we can't even have christmas tree in some places because it offends these people.)
To top it off, the majority of the middle-eastern population in Europe are refugees that leeches off the system instead of contributing to it.

So the vote turn out really isn't surprising. No one likes to have their culture and heritage eroded by some group of immigrants coming here seeking refugees.

If you want to stay at someone's house, you follow their rule. If you don't like the rule, move somewhere else.

The reason why Europe has a large influx of Indians and middle-easterns, asians is due to their colonial past... they went to these nations to leech off of them as a result (mainly with Indians) they're let into europe. unlike the colonialst most of the immigrants aren't "leeches"

Europe is just reaping what it sowed

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

holy fucking shit you are a dumbass.

GOVERNMENTS, have been responsible for more murders/genocide than any ONE religion TO DATE.

yeah but there were a lot less people to kill back then.

and i bet if christians had nukes back then, there would be a lot more dead people hahaha.

as time went on, there were a lot more of us, and we had weapons that were a lot more efficient at... well, doing what weapons do.



i bet if a crusade happened with today's technology, they would wipe out more people in one crusade than all wars in all of mankind combined.

you know what though, i don't really fucking care. I have come to accept that we humans, as much as we want world peace, or whatever, will never be able to achieve that until the day we have learnt to master ourselves, and become our own gods. We still obey the our natural instincts, we still obey the millions of years of evolutionary programming instilled in us.

we're the apex predators of earth, our world. we are the tip and edge of the sword, we are bred killing machines. humans are in the business of destruction, it is the destiny of our race. to obliterate our enemies, and when they run out, we kill each other. Until the day we can reprogram ourselves, and, like i said, become our own gods, and worship ourselves, we're going to keep killing each other, or whatever is out there to kill.

as one person, we're not very good at causing trouble. but when banded together, we love destruction. and it's too bad, cuz we're socially programmed to be very sociable and want to be part of groups.


oh and as for the topic, u know what, i don't really fucking care cuz they're on the other side of the world, i'd rather spend my effort trying to figure out how to get surround sound working while playing left 4 dead 2 on my big screen tv, than worrying about a few more churches going up with moon crescents on top of them instead of crosses.

[Meowjin]

^add me to steam.