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01-19-2010, 05:11 PM
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#1 | | y'all better put some respeck on my name
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| Bible verses on US army rifle scopes prompt concern
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZZWgkQwXuo Quote:
Bible verses on rifle scopes prompt concern
By Dan Lamothe - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Jan 19, 2010 18:27:07 EST
The Marine Corps plans to meet with the manufacturer of rifle optics used by thousands of U.S. troops in combat after the company said it stamps its products with biblical references, prompting criticism that the military and religion were mixing too closely.
Officials with Michigan-based optics maker Trijicon Inc. said Monday in news reports that their optics have been inscribed with references to Bible verses for years. In a statement released Tuesday, the company explained further.
“For two generations our Michigan-based family owned business has been working to provide America’s military men and women with high quality, innovative sighting systems for the weapons they use,” it said. “Our effort is simple and straightforward: to help our servicemen and women win the war on terror and come home safe to their families.
“As part of our faith and our belief in service to our country, Trijicon has put scripture references on our products for more than two decades. As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation.”
The use of the biblical references has been blasted by The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an independent organization that first brought the concerns to light after being contacted by active-duty troops. Mikey Weinstein, MRFF president, conceded that Trijicon may have meant well, but the practice allows insurgents to claim the U.S. is waging a holy war and puts some troops in an unfair, unwanted situation.
“As a private company, they can do whatever they want to,” Weinstein said, adding that most of the blame lies with the Pentagon. “But when you become a defense contractor, you have certain responsibilities.”
Marine officials said they are “aware of the issue and concerned with how this may be perceived.”
“The Marine Corps … does not use Trijicon’s markings for any purpose, including [the] purchase, tracking or management of systems,” said officials with Marine Corps Systems Command, based at Marine Corps Base Quantico, Va. “We will meet with the vendor to discuss future sight procurements.”
Army officials could not be reached for comment.
Weinstein said troops have complained that an inscription on the Advance Combat Optical Gunsight, used by thousands of Marines and soldiers, includes “JN8:12,” a reference to John 8:12, a Christian gospel reference: “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
The inscription on another optic includes “2COR4:6,” which refers to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
Weinstein said his group was glad to see the Marine officials say they are concerned, but is incredulous the service was not aware of it. After initially signing a $7.5 million contract with Trijicon in 2005 for 6,000 optics, it entered into an additional multi-year deal worth up to $660 million for as many as 800,000 optics.
“It’s like a husband and wife sleeping in a bed for two years and saying they weren’t aware of the nest of rattlesnakes in it,” he said.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/0...ptics_011910w/
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Last edited by Harvey Specter; 01-19-2010 at 05:43 PM.
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01-19-2010, 05:28 PM
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#2 | | ESKETIT
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are u fucking kidding me? i wonder who uncovered this , looks like a bunch of numbers and letters to me
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01-19-2010, 05:32 PM
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#3 | | HELP ME PLS!!!
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2010RS
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01-19-2010, 05:35 PM
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#4 | | I have named my kids VIC and VLS
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if i was buying a $1200 scope i'd probably want the choice to have whats printed on it and i'd probably prefer to not have bible verses :/
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01-19-2010, 05:37 PM
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#5 | | 14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
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I just lost respect for msnbc. This seems like a pretty FOX News thing to do.
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01-19-2010, 05:39 PM
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#6 | | RS.net, where our google ads make absolutely no sense!
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This is why I use a laser site on my M16
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01-19-2010, 05:41 PM
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#7 | | Hypa owned my ass at least once
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damn religious freaks
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01-19-2010, 05:46 PM
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#8 | | nuggets mod
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Don't like how they make the product? Buy from someone else.
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01-19-2010, 05:47 PM
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#9 | | nuggets mod
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Originally Posted by AVS_Racing  damn religious freaks | I will assume that you are referring to the ones who raised this issue in the first place.
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01-19-2010, 05:51 PM
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#10 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowtservo I just lost respect for msnbc. This seems like a pretty FOX News thing to do. | Also on BBC's website.
Military concern at 'Jesus sight'
Coded references to biblical passages are inscribed on gunsights widely used by the US and British military in Iraq and Afghanistan, it has emerged.
The markings include "2COR4:6" and "JN8:12", relating to verses in the books of Corinthians II and John.
Trijicon, the US-based manufacturer, was founded by a devout Christian, and says it runs to "Biblical standards".
But military officials in the US and UK have expressed concern over the way the markings will be perceived.
The company has added the references to its sights for many years, but the issue surfaced only recently when soldiers complained to an advocacy group.
Raised lettering
Versions of Trijicon's Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (Acog) are used by the US Special Operations Forces, the US Marine Corps and the US Army.
“ Many soldiers know of them and are very confused as to why they are there and what it is supposed to mean ”
US soldier, quoted by Military Religious Freedom Foundation
Britain's Ministry of Defence has just ordered 480 Acog sights for use on its new Sharpshooter rifles - to be used by troops in Afghanistan. Other versions of the Acog sight are "widely in service", the ministry says.
The inscriptions are subtle and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number.
John 8:12 reads: "When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, 'I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
The nod to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians, found on the company's Reflex sight, references the text: "For God, who said, 'Let light shine out of darkness,' made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ."
An MoD spokesman told the BBC the ministry appreciated the biblical references could cause offence and was talking to its supplier, but was "not aware at the time of purchase that these markings had any broader significance".
'Propaganda tool'
The US Defense Department is a major customer of Trijicon's, signing deals for $66m (£40.3m) of the company's products in 2009 alone.
The US Marine Corps told the BBC they were "concerned with how this may be perceived" and were meeting with the company to "discuss future sight procurements".
“ We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals ”
Trijicon
The US Army said it was looking into any potential policy violation.
The issue has been thrust into the spotlight by the US Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) - an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military.
On 14 January, the MRFF received an e-mail, purportedly from a Muslim US Army infantryman, complaining about the markings.
"Many soldiers know of them and are very confused as to why they are there and what it is supposed to mean."
The email adds: "Everyone is worried that if they were captured in combat that the enemy would use the Bible quotes against them in captivity or some other form of propaganda."
MRFF president Mikey Weinstein says the inscriptions could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool.
"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Koran were being inscribed onto these US armed forces gunsights instead of New Testament citations," he said.
A Trijicon spokesman told the BBC the company "has been working to provide America's military men and women with high quality, innovative sighting systems for the weapons they use".
"Our effort is simple and straightforward: to help our servicemen and women win the war on terror and come home safe to their families.
"As part of our faith and our belief in service to our country, Trijicon has put scripture references on our products for more than two decades.
"As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation," the spokesman added.
The company states on its website: "We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals."
Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...as/8468981.stm
Published: 2010/01/19 22:05:25 GMT
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01-19-2010, 05:54 PM
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#11 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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If this were true, the troops should have a choice of whether or not they have the scriptures engraved. Easiest way to keep everyone happy is to have 2 versions of the scope available.
Of course, the cheapest option is to remove them entirely. Makes 'em cheaper to manufacture too.  | |
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01-19-2010, 06:42 PM
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#12 | | SardaukarMod
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they shouldn't have the scopes engraved with any sort of religious verses at all. if anything, the soldiers can carry rosaries or verses themselves... mixing religion and military equipment on the part of the government (even though they "didn't know about it") isn't right, especially when supposedly religion is separate from government.
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01-19-2010, 06:58 PM
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#13 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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the report makes perfect sense, and is a serious concern not just for the issues the reporter voiced
but consider it a subtle indoctrination, luckily its just a small step of listing it in codes... but its just a small step from actually printing the verses on the scope
also consider the nutjobs in the military who are over there this push of religion onto them will push their extremism
its almost exactly what the americans are supposedly fighting against "religious extremism" they're doing the same.. i cant remember which documentary it is but it also shows how all military bases are highly influenced by christian groups
too tired... but if you can't see the concern ur as a dumb as the ppl who support fox news
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01-19-2010, 07:27 PM
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#14 | | nuggets mod
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weeeee, I can use the fail button for no good reason as well!
So let me get this straight, they have a huge issue with scripture on a rifle scope that they chose to buy, but have no issues with the dollar bill?
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01-19-2010, 07:30 PM
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#15 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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the news agency had no decision making on the purchasing of the scopes nor did the soldiers who voiced their concern...
the military officials had no concern until troops started complaining to advocacy groups... (that's different from the Department of Defense, who actually does the buying)
also how the hell does the dollar bill come into this... the bill isn't physically in a war zone killing ppl
Last edited by StylinRed; 01-19-2010 at 08:51 PM.
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01-19-2010, 08:00 PM
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#16 | | RS Operative (G)
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w0w fucking dumb
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01-19-2010, 09:07 PM
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#17 | | My homepage has been set to RS
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He's just trying to get enough kills for a thermal.
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01-19-2010, 09:08 PM
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#18 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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Originally Posted by ajax He's just trying to get enough kills for a thermal. |  i cant stand the thermal, acog ftw
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01-19-2010, 09:10 PM
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#19 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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military and religion CANT mix.
these douchebags at trijicon shouldn't have put their religion where it does not belong
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01-19-2010, 09:20 PM
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#20 | | ...in the world.
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowtservo I just lost respect for msnbc. This seems like a pretty FOX News thing to do. | Not really. This is actually a legitimate concern as having Bible verses on weapons implies this is a religious war...which it is not. The US is fighting against terrorism and such, not Islam.
Fox News is heavily pro-Christian, meaning they would probably support something like this...or if it wasn't on there, they would probably argue for it to be added like the fucking morons they are.
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01-19-2010, 09:40 PM
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#21 | | ESKETIT
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i would love to get PHO20 on my rifle... hell even PHO:2010
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01-19-2010, 09:48 PM
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#22 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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They should tag this on: EZ25:17. Quote: |
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.
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01-19-2010, 09:50 PM
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#23 | | I don't get it
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Originally Posted by StylinRed i cant stand the thermal, acog ftw | acog licks balls...
holographic ftw
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01-19-2010, 10:49 PM
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#24 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
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red dot for lyfe
only newbs run holo
acog is too zoom.
but my thermal on my barrett makes baby jesus cry
and religion has always been a LARGE part of US history.
"in god we trust" ring any bells? guess what, its already been brought up, but it was a good point
guess if there are still christian prayers said over mess? they sure are. christianity is a large part of military today, even in canada. dont like it? harden the fuck up. its part of life
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Originally Posted by RRxtar Ugliness and fatness are genetic disorders, much like baldness or necrophilia, and it's only your fault if you don't hate yourself enough to do something about it. | | |
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01-20-2010, 08:21 AM
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#25 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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Originally Posted by Vansterdam i would love to get PHO20 on my rifle... hell even PHO:2010 | On the other side, you'd have 420 inscribed, right?
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