[Senna4ever]

Shit. :(

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/26546--olympic-luger-killed-during-practice-run

[Ch28]

http://www.revscene.net/forums/official-vancouver-2010-t592748.html?p=6813713#post6813713

[achiam]

Yeah just read that too on BBC; several olympians were complaining that the track was way too fast:
This BBC report has much more information than the news1130 link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/vancouver_2010/luge/8513595.stm

[Jermyzy]

Vid of the crash

http://www.buzzfeed.com/akdobbins/nodar-kumaritashvili-luge-crash

[q0192837465]

I suggest this thread be merged instead of locked so some members' prayers won't be locked away.

[notching]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3025/126600699215fqge.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2164/12660070522qvpxg.jpg
http://yle.fi/ecepic/neon3/archive/00280/kelkkailu_bw_280313b.jpg

[twitchyzero]

RIP
don't they test these tracks beforehand?

[Roach]

Having pillars next to the track itself seems like such a glaringly obvious oversight.

Especially at the fastest point in the track.

RIP

Kev

[Grandmaster TSE]

RIP
don't think it was the track's fault, looks like he lose control out of the turn and just went flying off
sad to see this, condolences to his friends and family

[4doorVIP]

high quality crash vid

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/video/index.html?assetid=3350f67a-7694-4f9b-830f-09d957013d41&cid=sbcp24

[twitchyzero]

RIP
don't think it was the track's fault, looks like he lose control out of the turn and just went flying off
sad to see this, condolences to his friends and family

if you read the bbc link it said a few others got injured as well
messed up..inexperienced or not this shouldn't be happening

[Noir]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3025/126600699215fqge.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2164/12660070522qvpxg.jpg
http://yle.fi/ecepic/neon3/archive/00280/kelkkailu_bw_280313b.jpg

Wow. That turn is gonna gain notoriety to the other lugers now. What a mindfuck running that turn knowing somebody just died on it hours ago, or days ago.

[Qmx323]

god damn he was going 90 mph


rip

[RRxtar]

absolutely horrible

[Death2Theft]

Hello tirewall.

[Blue_StreakR]

Shit! This reminds me of that slide at Splashdown where they tell you to sit up near the end of it. If you don't sit up then you come really close to going over the side. You would have thought they would have taken extra measures on such a dangerous turn but hindsight is 20/20.

It's not like they have kindergarten students making these tracks. They are people within the sport along with very educated people.

It's too bad that such a tragedy has to occur on the first day. It kind of puts a dark cloud over the opening ceremonies.

[achiam]

if you read the bbc link it said a few others got injured as well
messed up..inexperienced or not this shouldn't be happening

exactly. the BBC page also quotes other country's teams as having expressed concern saying it was too fast and dangerous; witnesses also said this dude was scared coz he was poking his head up in the last lap...

fuck i hope they at least board that shit up or do something to slow the track down

[johny]

they need 360 degree tubes in the corners like the water slides!

[notching]

no padding on those poles right next to the track...wtf were they thinking? steel beams right beside the track?...terrible

[TL_99]

which dumbf**k designed the track? the side barrier could've and should've been at leats twice the height as they are now given the speed of these luges. And what's up with the steel poles being so damn close to the track. At least put some sort of safety net between these poles and the track.

[RRxtar]

which dumbf**k designed the track? the side barrier could've and should've been at leats twice the height as they are now given the speed of these luges. And what's up with the steel poles being so damn close to the track. At least put some sort of safety net between these poles and the track.
the dumbfuck has probably spent more time than you've been alive designing luge tracks. im sure the endless precise calculations done in the design go well beyond your scientific conclusion of "at leats twice the height as they are now"



dont blame the designers.

[danny_d19]

which dumbf**k designed the track? the side barrier could've and should've been at leats twice the height as they are now given the speed of these luges. And what's up with the steel poles being so damn close to the track. At least put some sort of safety net between these poles and the track.
+1 on the safety net thing. Should use ones similar to the downhill skiing runs

[J____]

the dumbfuck has probably spent more time than you've been alive designing luge tracks. im sure the endless precise calculations done in the design go well beyond your scientific conclusion of "at leats twice the height as they are now"



dont blame the designers.

lol nicely put

[q0192837465]

i think they make the walls low intentionally so spectaotrs can see.

[maxxxboost]

Sad
Nature of Luge. Going down an icy tube wearing nothing. Just tragic
I don't think the design was flawed, i bet it was within regulation but it could have been safer.
Because of this death, luge tracks will be forever changed and will be safer because of it.
Can't say much. Shouldn't pass blame. Hope they have a moment of silence for him.
RIP

[ryugeeh]

Just saw this on the news and watched the video. Guy was the same age as me.
RIP

[sh0n]

the dumbfuck has probably spent more time than you've been alive designing luge tracks. im sure the endless precise calculations done in the design go well beyond your scientific conclusion of "at leats twice the height as they are now"



dont blame the designers.


Uh in this case you do blame the designers for the following reasons.

1. Why would you place the steel columns after the fastest and hardest turn.
2. Why wouldn't you have the walls to be twice the height.
2. Why wouldn't you put some sort of safety net, safety pad the the steel columns or put up some fiberglass to help mitigate and at least absorb the athelete's crash.

I know its all in retrospect but a little bit more diligence would have saved a life today.

MAJOR FAIL right there!

[johny]

no padding on those poles right next to the track...wtf were they thinking? steel beams right beside the track?...terrible


if you hit a pad at 140km/h I doubt it'll help much.

[StylinRed]

wow thats horrible

im not sure if it was those pillars that killed him or when he initially wiped out because if u watch the video the moment the luge leaves him his head looks like its crushed into the ice sheet before flipping into the pillars

[achiam]

The designers may have done tonnes of calculations; but in the end the experts failed here, as the end result shows...

[johny]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3025/126600699215fqge.jpg
[/img]

this would have been bonus points for the snowboard half pipe.

[bengy]

Fucking fail design. Thinking only about speed. Guess they didn't take into consideration situations like these.

Durrrrrr, come to to Vancouver Olympics. Only the strong, or lucky, will survive. :thumbsup:

[hotong]

rip

[Death2Theft]

They keep it low for the cameras/media etc.

[hal0g0dv2]

rip

[Klobbersaurus]

wow thats horrible

im not sure if it was those pillars that killed him or when he initially wiped out because if u watch the video the moment the luge leaves him his head looks like its crushed into the ice sheet before flipping into the pillars

thats what helmets are for, its obvious the beam killed him, he went from 140k/hr to 0k/hr in less than 2 seconds

[hoking]

video of the accident here;

http://www.twitvid.com/34A88

[RacePace]

video of the accident here;

http://www.twitvid.com/34A88

damn he was going fast

[ajax]

Really hope there's a momemt of silence or some sort of tribute from the committee and all countries. Otherwise it'll just show that the olympics are really just a toy for the rich.
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[sunny_j]

rip

[you!]

damn vtec just kicked in

[keitaro]

If it means anything, teams have been practicing since last year. i.e. Canada. The thing is that you bring inexperienced Lugers' on the fastest track in the world, with little or no training on the course itself. It's a recipe for disaster like today. :( RIP

I hope they install some netting, and boards there to prevent further injuries.

[1exotic]

damn vtec just kicked in

your a fag, you have no soul... the 21yo guy just died, not cool.

[Jsunu]

damn vtec just kicked in

Dude, i get that you are trying to do a shock joke here but the joke itself isnt even that fucking funny.... FAIL

[rsx]

RIP.

Agreed that they should've increased the side wall or at least placed the beams somewhere else. Don't they do accident simulations here? Impact forces, etc??

[StylinRed]

Luge Events Suspended

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010wintergames/Luge+events+suspended+Whistler/2557453/story.html

lots of info, about the course and the practice runs
turns out canada got 300 practice runs and other countries 40 only

the spokesman who built the track says they'll put in speed limits for the next olympic track (2014)

[Great68]

the dumbfuck has probably spent more time than you've been alive designing luge tracks. im sure the endless precise calculations done in the design go well beyond your scientific conclusion of "at leats twice the height as they are now"



dont blame the designers.

Obviously they missed a few precise calculations here.

[Great68]

RIP.

Agreed that they should've increased the side wall or at least placed the beams somewhere else. Don't they do accident simulations here? Impact forces, etc??

Ex-fucking-actly.

[Tim Budong]

this will probably piss off a few people but this is what I think, its going to sound harsh and too early, but the underlying truth about this is here...

before all that, YES I am absolutely shocked and disgusted that there was no safety net or anything, and its HEARTBREAKING that this had to happen.

here it is

Designers have calculated the concerns of this track, but why is it so fast?
Technology is to blame

Example would be hockey gear, technology has allowed athletes to becomes better, faster, stronger than say 15+ years ago. Gear is lighter and have more "tech options" than ever before such as how much flex and how the shaft is made in a hockey stick

Luge is no exception. The tracks are faster with technology, the sleds are probably lighter and more durable for speed and those body suits they wear are made of some crazy aerodynamic shit.

As much as safety is a concern, the designers of these elements aim for speed. It was bound to happen may it be the past, now or in the future.

Technology will now take over and limit the speed while staying competitive in the sport.

its a sad day, and i too feel the pain. Vancouver is now open to the world and the world today is in mourning

RIP

[Porschedog]

R.I.P

Can't belive the speed he was going at

[Analixis]

the dumbfuck has probably spent more time than you've been alive designing luge tracks. im sure the endless precise calculations done in the design go well beyond your scientific conclusion of "at leats twice the height as they are now"



dont blame the designers.

That dumbfuck fucked up. That's all that matters here, really. The "precise calculations" must've been pretty shitty.

[Acura604]

damn vtec just kicked in

i hope vtec kicks in and runs over your head jackass.. have some respect.

[moomooCow]

RIP.

I'm curious about who actually designs the track? IOC?

[JSALES]

that's so brutal, can't believe that happened


R.I.P.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

touch down...!

[vapour_lock]

they aired the crash on ctv, thought that was distasteful. dont need to see that on opening night..

[Not really racist!]

fuckkk

RIP
now everybody going down that same course is gonna be so psychologically unstable and mindfucked that somethin happened

[jello24]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3025/126600699215fqge.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2164/12660070522qvpxg.jpg
RIP to the luger. Hope designers learn from this.

The designers may have experience, but not once did they see the possibility of a rider leaving the track? isnt this partly the same reason why they surround race tracks with steel fences? it may not happen at all, but you should be preventing this stuff, not watching and fixing after.

and those steel beams. they could have moved those steel beams back a few metres and just use longer trusses to support what i think is the roof. the guy could have landed on the pavement with nothing but broken bones to show for it.

then again, hindsight is 20/20. frustrating to see deadly accidents when they can be prevented.

[Noir]

Can Lugers control their speed or do they just brace for the ride?

I know they're supposed to tackle a course as fast as possible but if they have control over speed, isn't part of tackling courses managing your turns?

[mc.]

r.i.p

[bcedhk]

how come there is no padding on those posts? i know it probably might not have done much better, but you would never know right?

[tonyvu]

simply putting up a bigger barrier or move the damn poles would've prevented this tragedy...

RIP... he died doing what he loved

[dimdiu]

Uh in this case you do blame the designers for the following reasons.

1. Why would you place the steel columns after the fastest and hardest turn.
2. Why wouldn't you have the walls to be twice the height.
2. Why wouldn't you put some sort of safety net, safety pad the the steel columns or put up some fiberglass to help mitigate and at least absorb the athelete's crash.

I know its all in retrospect but a little bit more diligence would have saved a life today.

MAJOR FAIL right there!

uh...i actually agree with RRxtar, as an undergrad of a designer school, it's not as easy as u think designing every single thing in its place, not just put it there and get the result u wanted to get...i'm not an expert in designing professional olympic tracks, but as u can see in the picture and video, the "steel columns" supports the metal roof above all the way outside of the track, they didn't just build it right at the corner, so i'm guessing there must be a purpose for it to be there. i'm not saying it's the luger's fault to propel himself to the steel column, just saying it's all an unwanted accident.

really, dun blame the designers, they actually do more math on this single track...actually more than some people would in their lifetime. if it's just as simple as double the wall height, put safety pad/fiberglass and that would save the dude's life, then i guess anyone could be a designer.

btw doubling the wall height won't work, so if he actually went out of control and on to the wall...the way he comes back down would've killed him too since the other side of the track is open...

[Vansterdam]

RIP

[Spaceship_coupe]

RIP.

If you watch the video closely and turn up the volume, you can hear him trying his fuckin hardest to slow down on that turn. He was out of the line as he entered high then went low to create a slingshot effect which ultimately caused the horrific accident. Such a sad day for the world. :(

[Boostslut]

RIP, thats just horrible to happen to anyone. I hope some serious lesson's get learned from this event. I feel for the athletes family. He died doing something he loved. 60,000 person standing ovation for him and his country. Wow.

To anyone making any sort of joke, or trying to be smart in this thread. Get a life. A person wiith family, loved ones, and many friends just passed away. Give him, his family, and his country some respect.

[Nvasion]

RIP

[bcedhk]

maybe nets or foam pads are not put in place cause atheltes dont want it cause it may be a distraction?

I donno, but i dont really think is a "design" issue, more of a distraction for cameraman and paramedics to get into the track..

[bing]

RIP

[SkinnyPupp]

Why is everyone blaming the track? The guy is going down a track at 90 MPh on a tiny little sled. It's pretty easy to make a small mistake and die. That's why it's so dangerous and exciting. Accidents happen, and it's unfortunate. But everyone is using this as another excuse to shit on the Vancouver olympics.

[bengy]

Why is everyone blaming the track? The guy is going down a track at 90 MPh on a tiny little sled. It's pretty easy to make a small mistake and die. That's why it's so dangerous and exciting. Accidents happen, and it's unfortunate. But everyone is using this as another excuse to shit on the Vancouver olympics.

Maybe because nobody has died before? Especially on the first day, before the opening ceremony?

[Noir]

Maybe because nobody has died before? Especially on the first day, before the opening ceremony?

All the previous tracks where you have someone going down 100+ kph with nothing but a body suit and helmet is all equally susceptible for an accident.

It just happened here. This sport has long since been dangerous well before Vancouver.

[twitchyzero]

Why is everyone blaming the track? The guy is going down a track at 90 MPh on a tiny little sled. It's pretty easy to make a small mistake and die. That's why it's so dangerous and exciting. Accidents happen, and it's unfortunate. But everyone is using this as another excuse to shit on the Vancouver olympics.
yeah, cause the sled's got brakes right?
give me a break...no one on this board is using a tragedy to shit on the games.

read the bbc link, other athletes have already injured themselves on this track and have expressed their concerns before this accident. Accidents happen, but when it's the first to kill an athelete in a sport that's been around for ages something tells me there's a poor design in the track

[bengy]

All the previous tracks where you have someone going down 100+ kph with nothing but a body suit and helmet is all equally susceptible for an accident.

It just happened here. This sport has long since been dangerous well before Vancouver.

Considering other athletets that "survived" it are complaining about it, not to mention that they suspended the event, I think there's something up with the track. If somebody can somehow FLY off the fucking track, into STEEL beams inches away, yeah, I think something is up with the fucking track???

[Kite]

This was being shown live all over whistler when it happened. A very sad situation.

RIP
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[Sean@Home]

Im not going to luge any sleep over this. He will go down as the biggest... luger.

Thats really all i got.

[fishing666]

uh...i actually agree with RRxtar, as an undergrad of a designer school, it's not as easy as u think designing every single thing in its place, not just put it there and get the result u wanted to get...i'm not an expert in designing professional olympic tracks, but as u can see in the picture and video, the "steel columns" supports the metal roof above all the way outside of the track, they didn't just build it right at the corner, so i'm guessing there must be a purpose for it to be there. i'm not saying it's the luger's fault to propel himself to the steel column, just saying it's all an unwanted accident.

really, dun blame the designers, they actually do more math on this single track...actually more than some people would in their lifetime. if it's just as simple as double the wall height, put safety pad/fiberglass and that would save the dude's life, then i guess anyone could be a designer.

btw doubling the wall height won't work, so if he actually went out of control and on to the wall...the way he comes back down would've killed him too since the other side of the track is open...

lets see some example calculations that an olympic designer would do. i know for a fact for things are not complicated. it's just that people make it complicated. I mean seriously if it was that complicated..give yourself a bigger safety net.

[RRxtar]

as they said in the news article "no one has ever come out of a track before." if no one has ever come out of a track before, and the general consensus is that it just doesnt ever happen, why would anyone think twice about those posts?


if sydney crosby somehow blew a tire at full speed and slid head first into the boards and killed himself, would everyone be sitting here saying "well obviously if the boards were made of balloons this never would have happened. WHY HAVENT THEY MADE THE BOARDS OUT OF BALLOONS!?!


accidents happen, and this is an extremely tragic one.

[penner2k]

yeah, cause the sled's got brakes right?
give me a break...no one on this board is using a tragedy to shit on the games.

read the bbc link, other athletes have already injured themselves on this track and have expressed their concerns before this accident. Accidents happen, but when it's the first to kill an athelete in a sport that's been around for ages something tells me there's a poor design in the track

The sled doesnt have brakes but they can control the speed..
This situation sucks but when it comes down to it the guy on the sled fucked up (I'm not trying to be disrespectful)...
You can say they could have moved the beams back a couple feet but realistically I bet instead of hitting the beam at 140+ km/h he would have hit it at 130 km/h.. Either way he is dead.
Padding would have maybe made it that instead of dying instantly he would have died an hour later.. or a day later.. personally if I were him I would rather hit the exposed beams. Painless and I bet he didnt even know what happened.

[goo3]

Anyone flying out of the track is pretty much dead. They need to keep them inside, no matter what.

[InvisibleSoul]

as they said in the news article "no one has ever come out of a track before." if no one has ever come out of a track before, and the general consensus is that it just doesnt ever happen, why would anyone think twice about those posts?


if sydney crosby somehow blew a tire at full speed and slid head first into the boards and killed himself, would everyone be sitting here saying "well obviously if the boards were made of balloons this never would have happened. WHY HAVENT THEY MADE THE BOARDS OUT OF BALLOONS!?!


accidents happen, and this is an extremely tragic one.

Yes, this is a freak accident.

People have to keep in mind that this track probably had to be approved by numerous sanctioning bodies, so it's not like the only person that could be responsible is the designer.

[Lude S]

pillars not being covered.......is Canada doing anything right for the games? seems like the Olympics is a big fail.

[InvisibleSoul]

Just a random thought... I can't think of a single situation where more people would know about and honour a seemingly random athlete's death. I mean, if it had happened during the actual competition, sure it would make the news worldwide, but it wouldn't have made a fraction of the impact it did to get several portions of the opening ceremonies dedicated to him, being watched by possibly hundreds of millions of people.

The timing of his death couldn't have come at a better time in terms of him being etched into history.

[Manic!]

pillars not being covered.......is Canada doing anything right for the games? seems like the Olympics is a big fail.

Covered pillars wouldn't have done anything at 140+ Km.

Know matter how safe you make something you can't make it 100% safe. Just look at car racing.

[twitchyzero]

The sled doesnt have brakes but they can control the speed..
This situation sucks but when it comes down to it the guy on the sled fucked up (I'm not trying to be disrespectful)...

Padding would have maybe made it that instead of dying instantly he would have died an hour later.. or a day later.. personally if I were him I would rather hit the exposed beams. Painless and I bet he didnt even know what happened.


as they said in the news article "no one has ever come out of a track before." if no one has ever come out of a track before, and the general consensus is that it just doesnt ever happen, why would anyone think twice about those posts?

accidents happen, and this is an extremely tragic one.

Just look at car racing.

I think you guys are missing the point. The athletes pratically have no control over their sleds, they cant stop or correct their sleds fast enough when they're gong that fast. So it's almost entirely up to the design of the track to ensure safety (to some extent their gears too).

Sure paddings or putting the pillars further back probably won't help a whole lot, but there must be something wrong here. This has been an Olympic sport for so long and no one's ever died from it so this accident SHOULD be raising red flags.

[InvisibleSoul]

I think you guys are missing the point. The athletes pratically have no control over their sleds, they cant stop or correct their sleds fast enough when they're gong that fast. So it's almost entirely up to the design of the track to ensure safety (to some extent their gears too).

Sure paddings or putting the pillars further back probably won't help a whole lot, but there must be something wrong here. This has been an Olympic sport for so long and no one's ever died from it so this accident SHOULD be raising red flags.

False. Another luger died during training for the 1964 Olympics, when the sport was first added.

[Qmx323]

oh yeah red flags were raised,

luge is suspended.

[InvisibleSoul]

oh yeah red flags were raised,

luge is suspended.
Not anymore.

http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-news/n/news/fil-statement-on-mens-luge-competition_274462nE.html

The FIL, through its technical officials, further investigated into the cause of this tragic incident. Based on a physical inspection of the track and a thorough review of the tapes they have concluded the following:

It appears after a routine run, the athlete came late out of curve 15 and did not compensate properly to make correct entrance into curve 16. This resulted in a late entrance into curve 16 and although the athlete worked to correct the problem he eventually lost control of the sled resulting in the tragic accident. The technical officials of the FIL were able to retrace the path of the athlete and concluded there was no indication that the accident was caused by deficiencies in the track.

Based on these findings the race director, in consultation with the FIL, made the decision to reopen the track following a raising of the walls at the exit of curve 16 and a change in the ice profile. This was done as a preventative measure, in order to avoid that such an extremely exceptional accident could occur again.

The FIL will resume men´s training Saturday morning with two full training runs prior to the competition taking place as scheduled at 17h00.

Freak accident is freak.

[felixy69]

I am a total fag.

[RCubed]

RIP.

[Armind]

I hope no other athletes will face this when doing a run in the upcoming days. =\

[MWR34]

RIP,


i think that padded rails wouldnt help, but higher walls might have prevented this tragedy.

[Qmx323]

oh well Taiwans only competitor can actually compete now lol.

[Boostslut]

Im not going to luge any sleep over this. He will go down as the biggest... luger.

Thats really all i got.

Ohh wow your so witty! JERK.

[dimdiu]

lets see some example calculations that an olympic designer would do. i know for a fact for things are not complicated. it's just that people make it complicated. I mean seriously if it was that complicated..give yourself a bigger safety net.

well i can't provide a calculation that an olympic designer would do, but i know for sure if it's just as easy as building a wall double in height, we won't have certified designers and engineers working on the site. We would just have random people giving suggestions and see which one gets the most vote.

They are there for a reason, and we, who knows nothing about the industry, dun think have the right to judge it's the designer's fault just by some picture and a video.

as someone mentioned, it's a freak accident, and RIP the guy who died in the practice

[ra1nn]

RIP

[DC5-S]

Ohh wow your so witty! JERK.

Seems like Sean needs a good ass whooping
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[twitchyzero]

oh well Taiwans only competitor can actually compete now lol.
why do they even bother rofl. they should just focus on getting one gold medal in each summer games haha

[seakrait]

yeah, padding the pillars would have done nothing. especially with the pillars so close to the track. if they were further away, at least there'd be more room for the padding that you'd need to decelerate a what, 90kg man? safely from 144kmph to 0?

higher walls for sure are the only sure way. even the netting would be better as long as the nets don't stretch...

RIP. ominous start to the games.

[underscore]

I think this is a case of the tech for the sport bypassing the human limitations. they cranked up the speed levels for the suits, sleds and tracks too far and now something has happened that, as posted above, hasn't happened before. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason those pillars were left so close in the designs is because noone has ever left the track before, thus no reason to expect anyone ever would. After this accident I would expect some changes in either course safety or slowing down the event.

RIP to the athelete, and condolences to his family, friends and teammates.

[Mkhun]

RIP..

[penner2k]

ok this is in bad but I will admit I laughed (and felt bad after)..
anyways found this on the Joe Rogan board

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2425/1266018946780.jpg

[m4k4v4li]

im not a rocket scientist but wouldnt higher walls and a net that could withstand luge speeds or something that is designed to keep the lugers INSIDE the track seem more safe? maybe it wont make a difference but anything is better than going straight into a concrete wall @ 100mph...

[Amuse]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2164/12660070522qvpxg.jpg

That's just horrible. Wasn't there tests done on this track before? Why are there concrete poles after a high speed turn? Making it padded doesn't help. If they crash, they will break their neck.
I don't think inexperience was much of a factor, since how can you really control at 144km/h in a practice run?
The designers of the track should have made it slower and safer. Maybe put safety netting and removing the concrete poles.

[rice cooker]

whats worse than going down a frozen slide at 100mph wearing nothing?

doing the exact same thing except going headfirst.

these 2 sports belong in the winter xgames not the olympics

[Sean@Home]

Seems like Sean needs a good ass whooping
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It was probably in bad taste, but im heartless.

[maxxxboost]

That's just horrible. Wasn't there tests done on this track before? Why are there concrete poles after a high speed turn? Making it padded doesn't help. If they crash, they will break their neck.
I don't think inexperience was much of a factor, since how can you really control at 144km/h in a practice run?
The designers of the track should have made it slower and safer. Maybe put safety netting and removing the concrete poles.

I agree on putting netting or putting higher barriers, but removing the poles would prob do more harm in terms of structure.
Like others said, the designers probably done many calculations, designs and test simulations to meet the requirments and regulations of the track.
I think inexperience was a big factor, along with many others, like chance and luck. Like the others said, one big freak accident.
Why would we make something slower and safer when the world is going the other way? Technolgy is a major factor. If they cared a bout slower/safer, they would pad thenselves up and use dull skates so going down the hill.
Maybe everything was so technically advanced (board, clothing, track) that the average luger couldn't handle it, but then that goes again with experience and luck/chance.

It is just the nature of luge. I'm surprised there arn't more deaths.
But now the utilitarian view is, since his death, others will learn from it making it safer hopefully.

[Alpine50]

RIP. It was pretty hard to watch when they showed it.
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[Manic!]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2164/12660070522qvpxg.jpg

That's just horrible. Wasn't there tests done on this track before? Why are there concrete poles after a high speed turn? Making it padded doesn't help. If they crash, they will break their neck.
I don't think inexperience was much of a factor, since how can you really control at 144km/h in a practice run?
The designers of the track should have made it slower and safer. Maybe put safety netting and removing the concrete poles.

Many people have tested the track and people have gone over 150 km/h. He didn't have to 144 km/h he could have gone slower but he wanted the fastest time in the practice session.

[R&R]

rip, imo they should postpone the use of the luge track

[XtC-604]

I see that most ppl here dont have any physics knowledge at all... whether that was a side wall, or a concrete beam, or pillows he would have died. IMPULSE know it? FORCE/TIME(s)

[jello24]

apparently, they're blaming the athlete for not following the right line through the course. whatever weight shifting they do can't possibly offer such a precise amount of control that they can change lines if they fuck up a corner exit.

they're fucking ice sleds, not F1 cars, you insensitive safety officials.

sure... make the walls higher, just so the next athlete can now safely do an assgrind 180 into the pole right after that one. i guess that gives the next dead athlete style points.

i sure hope they make the safety wall reach the roof to catch anyone that can't take a proper line through the ice.

[kungpow]

I see that most ppl here dont have any physics knowledge at all... whether that was a side wall, or a concrete beam, or pillows he would have died. IMPULSE know it? FORCE/TIME(s)

I agree. Forget the paddings, he needed more time to slow down. He went from 140km/hr to 0 in 1sec. His heart, lungs, brain, vessels, etc all got knocked out of place when he smacked at the wall with so many g's.

[umpadupa]

^ i would agree
netting/fences would just cut into him considering the speed
and im assuming the pillars were also designed to help hold some weight, cuz a human body flying around a corning at 140+ km/h would exert A LOT of force onto the track
RIP

[SkinnyPupp]

yeah, cause the sled's got brakes right?
give me a break...no one on this board is using a tragedy to shit on the games.

read the bbc link, other athletes have already injured themselves on this track and have expressed their concerns before this accident. Accidents happen, but when it's the first to kill an athelete in a sport that's been around for ages something tells me there's a poor design in the track
Unless　they totally cancel the luge event and tear down the track, you are wrong. This was a freak accident caused by a mistake in an event he knew was deadly going in. All the bullshit here and on news sites making up stories as if the athletes were warning people this would happen is just bullshit.

[slammer111]

I see that most ppl here dont have any physics knowledge at all... whether that was a side wall, or a concrete beam, or pillows he would have died. IMPULSE know it? FORCE/TIME(s)Um, pillows would totally help. Would you rather jump off a building onto a layer of pillows or a concrete floor? If forced to choose I'd take 1 layer over 0 any day.

Since when is impulse F/t? Last time I checked it's F*t. You might want to pay more attention in physics class. ;) Technically it's the integral of F(t)dt but this is getting beyond highschool physics.

The deceleration is actually pretty crazy. 143.3km/h = 39.8m/s. Assuming his helmet has 3cm of padding and the pillar didn't flex, the acceleration on the guy's head is 26408m/s^2, or 2694.7Gs. :eek: Your brain would turn to goo. His head would reach a full stop (assuming he doesn't bounce) in 0.0015s.

They really should pad those things and raise the walls to be honest. Might not reduce the injuries by too much but keeping them inside the track would be a whole lot safer. Also the extra 0.05s or whatever deceleration time provided by a pad may have prevented this guy's death. Then again, nobody ever anticipated someone flying out. Design oversight if anything. Hopefully the raised wall will prevent another fatality at this point. And yes, they do keep walls low on purpose. Not just so people can see better, but also to minimize costs. Concrete isn't free you know.

[AzNightmare]

wow thats horrible

im not sure if it was those pillars that killed him or when he initially wiped out because if u watch the video the moment the luge leaves him his head looks like its crushed into the ice sheet before flipping into the pillars

Upon closer look, his head never hit anything until it hit that pole.

Can Lugers control their speed or do they just brace for the ride?

I know they're supposed to tackle a course as fast as possible but if they have control over speed, isn't part of tackling courses managing your turns?

They have some control, otherwise victory would purely depend on the initial acceleration at the start. I think he just over pushed that run... and sadly, it cost his life.



This can be partial blame on both sides. I assume the designers had made the track how all tracks have been designed in previous years. (I'm not 100% sure did other tracks in previous years had poles so close or not, or were they padded or not.) But also, the luger himself went too fast, his own error.

Although common sense would tell you that putting poles so close like that is not very smart. An Engineer may be able to calculate what angle to make the turns according to the expected speeds of a luger, and the size and strength of the colums (poles) to use for supporting the track, but their main concern probably isn't going to be "WHAT IF's" for lugers that make mistakes.


btw doubling the wall height won't work, so if he actually went out of control and on to the wall...the way he comes back down would've killed him too since the other side of the track is open...

A higher wall would have helped. The way he fell off, he would have hit the wall and just rolled back into the track (he wouldn't have flew out to the other side). Probably still injured, but death would have been unlikely. Another thing they could have done is to make the base of the pole farther away by making them diagonal. So the top point is still the same, but the bottom can be farther away from the track. That may have helped a bit.

I'm not a luger myself, so I don't know the techniques on what to do if something goes wrong. While exiting that corner, he knew he was already in trouble, as you can see both his hands were not holding the luge anymore. In other words, he bailed. I'm thinking would it have been any better if he had decided to hang on to dear life... He probably didn't expect to go out of the track if he decided to let go of the luge.

He had already "crashed" earlier prior to that. And I think it said over a dozen other lugers had wiped out on this track. I don't know what's the rate for previous years. Is this common to have that many accidents? All of them walked away without injuries... It's unfortunate that this one wasn't so lucky.



Are they planning to do anything about this now for safety?
And how will this effect other lugers in the actual games? It's only natural to be a bit hesitant of pushing it as hard as they can, knowing someone has died by doing so.

[Gh0stRider]

After the investigation, they said it was pilot error that lead to the crash.

They made some changes to the track. I think they raised the wall.
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[Tim Budong]

I believe a higher wall could have led to the lugers pushing either harder cuz theres more room to go

[Great68]

Higher walll, and now men start at the women's start. Starting from the women's start they loose 2 turns and about 10 stories of height.

[penner2k]

One good idea someone came up with was to plexiglass the side of the track.. people can still watch.. Cameras can still tape and it would keep him in the track..
One thing I dont like is they are talking about putting speed limits in place. If they do that they should just remove the event from the Olympics. They dont have speed limits in any other events. Its all about pushing yourself to your limit. That is why this finally happened. Hell this guy was only going 144 km/h.. Someone has done over 150 km/h and survived.
If they had more time I'd say use plexiglass and then have some sorta shock absorber attached from the glass to those beams to minimize impact and then allow them to go all out..

[Hondaracer]

the new NHL glass used at GM place etc. flexes like 2-3 feet outwards on impact

i dont know if a big hit is the same impact at somone hitting it at 140km/h but could be an idea

[penner2k]

I'm sure they can figure something out. With a shock system in place it would absorb some of the impact. I'm sure the NHL glass would do just fine..

[Tim Budong]

Safety nets and High walls with line to show which is track and which is safety zone is a good idea

as for the nets,
theres gotta be room for the net to give out for the athlete in order for it to work, plus the amount of force would be tremendous, especially if you can hit 5G on that course

[Inaii]

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the other luge athletes. Being able to run on a course you know someone has died on, I don't think I could do it. You gotta wonder what they're thinking as they come up to that bend in the track...

[Ikkaku]

^ what a mindfuck that would be.

Skeleton and luge are some of the most extreme shit you can do imo. It's just between you and the board you are laying on.

[penner2k]

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the other luge athletes. Being able to run on a course you know someone has died on, I don't think I could do it. You gotta wonder what they're thinking as they come up to that bend in the track...

They arent thinking of anything..
There is a saying "look where you wanna go.. not where you dont wanna go"..
Anyone that cant get this out of their head should just drop out.. They are more a risk to themself if they are thinking about this while going down the track.
I know its an asshole thing to say but pretty much the mentality that they need to have is that it was that guys fault for being inexperienced. This competition is really gonna be psychological.. Whoever has the most control over their brain will win..

[4chinit]

heard on the radio that they move the men's starting line to the women's starting line, thus slowing the whole course including that final turn.

[Inaii]

They arent thinking of anything..
There is a saying "look where you wanna go.. not where you dont wanna go"..
Anyone that cant get this out of their head should just drop out.. They are more a risk to themself if they are thinking about this while going down the track.
I know its an asshole thing to say but pretty much the mentality that they need to have is that it was that guys fault for being inexperienced. This competition is really gonna be psychological.. Whoever has the most control over their brain will win..

That's a very good point. But I don't think it was his inexperience with the track that killed him. If you watch the video, it actually looks like he clips something when he comes up the other side, just before he's thrown off.

Either way, something went wrong and someone paid the ultimate price.

[underscore]

Agreed on the amount of balls and mental control it must take to do this stuff, there's no way you could get me to dive on a sled in only a spandex suit and do 150km/h down a curved track with no brakes.

Safety nets and High walls with line to show which is track and which is safety zone is a good idea

as for the nets,
theres gotta be room for the net to give out for the athlete in order for it to work, plus the amount of force would be tremendous, especially if you can hit 5G on that course

I think solid plexi would be best, you don't want it to flex out and then spring you back off the inside of the track. The impact with said wall of plexi wouldn't be that bad, nor your body falling back down to the track, it's slick ice so the impact would be the same as normally falling only a few feet. The vertical or side to side speed isn't the issue here, the problem was that his body went from 150km/h forward to 0km/h forward. You'd be pretty much fine sliding up a plexiglass wall and falling back down into the track, then sliding to a stop a ways down.

[The_AK]

this really sucks, even /b/ is all over him now

[LiquidTurbo]

My god, this happens and then suddenly everyone is an Safety Engineering expert. WTF?

Hard to watch. RIP.

Let's examine all the possibilities as logically as possible without dumbass 20/20 outbursts like "They should have put padding!"

1. Situation as it is. Obviously we know the outcome.
2. Padding. Nothing would have changed. Odds are you can't even survive a 144km/h CAR accident.
3. No beams - Would have flung out and landed on concrete/skinned him alive
4. Higher wall - Still would have flung out and been seriously injured/killed.

Some sports are inherently dangerous. The only consolation this guy had is at least it was virtually instant death, compared to a lifetime of suffering if he had 'survived'.

[LiquidTurbo]

RIP.

Agreed that they should've increased the side wall or at least placed the beams somewhere else. Don't they do accident simulations here? Impact forces, etc??

Of COURSE the engineers do simulations. However it's like modelling a car accident that can happen at any time. Impossible to control all variables.

If you looked at crashing lugers at this turn, there are nearly an infinite different ways the outcome of the crash could have turned out.

[Jobo]

Right before the beams, I noticed there was a slight turn on the wall which he bumped into as he was sliding along the wall. If that bend wasn't there I wonder if he would've hit the beam at all...probably his legs. But then again the outcome would be just as bad.

Rest in Peace...

[XtC-604]

Um, pillows would totally help. Would you rather jump off a building onto a layer of pillows or a concrete floor? If forced to choose I'd take 1 layer over 0 any day.

Since when is impulse F/t? Last time I checked it's F*t. You might want to pay more attention in physics class. ;) Technically it's the integral of F(t)dt but this is getting beyond highschool physics.

The deceleration is actually pretty crazy. 143.3km/h = 39.8m/s. Assuming his helmet has 3cm of padding and the pillar didn't flex, the acceleration on the guy's head is 26408m/s^2, or 2694.7Gs. :eek: Your brain would turn to goo. His head would reach a full stop (assuming he doesn't bounce) in 0.0015s.

They really should pad those things and raise the walls to be honest. Might not reduce the injuries by too much but keeping them inside the track would be a whole lot safer. Also the extra 0.05s or whatever deceleration time provided by a pad may have prevented this guy's death. Then again, nobody ever anticipated someone flying out. Design oversight if anything. Hopefully the raised wall will prevent another fatality at this point. And yes, they do keep walls low on purpose. Not just so people can see better, but also to minimize costs. Concrete isn't free you know.
K that formula was me in my tired mode. But regardless. That pillow would of done shit all. Why don't you go jump off a bridge thats 600m above water. Water is soft right? To be effective you'd need like 8000000 pillows to be able to even walk away.

[Great68]

K that formula was me in my tired mode. But regardless. That pillow would of done shit all. Why don't you go jump off a bridge thats 600m above water. Water is soft right? To be effective you'd need like 8000000 pillows to be able to even walk away.

I agree, padding on the post would have done nothing.

What would have done something is a taller wall, which they ended up figuring out had to be put in.

[keitaro]

I don't like how the Woman luge is starting from the Junior position. I think luge and skeleton for both men and woman should start from the shorten track, while bobsled starts from the upper position.

[Gh0stRider]

Georgians thank Canadians for their compassion following luge death

http://www.vancouversun.com/Georgians+thank+Canadians+their+compassion+followi ng+luge+death/2562616/story.html

[fliptuner]

The changes made to the track were done to appease the general public, media, athletes and other mourners.

It's a 2 year old course with no fatalities.
Fast? Yes.
Dangerous? Not for the experienced.
Accidents happen.

There was nothing wrong with the track or it's design. I can appreciate why they made the changes to it but also feel that shortening it almost 200M on top of adding the new wall was a little much.

[DC5-S]

clearly it is a dangerous track if someone dies on it.. And why the hell did they want to make it the fastest track in the world? for bragging rights? that was a retarded decision.

[Sky_2000]

The changes made to the track were done to appease the general public, media, athletes and other mourners.

It's a 2 year old course with no fatalities.
Fast? Yes.
Dangerous? Not for the experienced.
Accidents happen.

There was nothing wrong with the track or it's design. I can appreciate why they made the changes to it but also feel that shortening it almost 200M on top of adding the new wall was a little much.

Safety of the track was in question by alot of experienced Luger:

"I think they are pushing it a little too much," [Hannah] Campbell-Pegg said. "To what extent are we just little lemmings that they just throw down a track and we're crash-test dummies? I mean, this is our lives."



"American luger Tony Benshoof told NBC: "When I first got on this track, I thought that somebody was going to kill themselves."
[...]
"There is a human limit," says Canadian luge coach and former German doubles medalist Wolfgang Staudinger. "I hope we don't increase the speed of our tracks. Whistler is on the limit."

http://deadspin.com/5470753/tracks-safety-was-already-in-question-before-fatal-crash


Just because the luge was 21 when he died didn't mean he was inexperienced:

""But the argument that Kumaritashvili wasn't really good enough to tackle such a fast layout was rejected by Saakashvili.

“Look, much more decorated sportsmen, as well, have seen the problem,” he said. “This sport of luge, I have found out, is a matter of experience, and it's like Formula One, you need to have experience accumulate with years.

“Having said that … Nodar was a very rapidly progressing sportsman. The last result he showed he was 12th in training. That's a very high result. He came here on merit. He had to go through international competition, he was at this place before – so the last thing you can blame this on is inexperience.”

Kumaritashvili's father and uncle were both lugers, and his uncle was a coach of the French team. His hometown of Borjomi, Saakashvili said, was once the training centre for the entire Soviet Olympic team. And though facilities there have largely been destroyed by war, he said, “I don't think his uncle would have put him at risk if he had not been sure what kind of training and preparation he had gone through.”"

http://www.vancouversun.com/Georgian...616/story.html

[chouchou]

Understandably so, this event held back a fellow luger from Georgia from competition.
Instead of competing in an event on the track today (where he was officially stated on the score sheet), he left flowers on the curve 16 and left the Olympics. Such a sad sad event, RIP.

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/news-centre/newsid=41081.html#fallen+lugers+friend+cant

WHISTLER - They were fast friends in the fastest of winter sports. They grew up together in the in the town of Borjomi in the thick of the Georgian mountains. They were classmates and training partners; a couple of 21-year-olds eager to test their skills at their first Olympics.

Luge was their sport, their passion.

And now Nodar Kumaritashviliv is gone and his buddy Levan Gureshidzev has become a man so wracked with sorrow he couldn't bring himself to do what they both loved.

Every competitor in Saturday night's opening runs of the men's singles event wore a strip of black tape on the left side of their helmet. It was a symbolic tribute to Mr. Kumaritashvili, who lost control Friday morning coming out of the left side of curve 16 and was catapulted from his sled into a metal pole.

But Mr. Gureshidze wore no stripe, no helmet, no spandex outfit. He was listed on the start sheet but did not compete as the 38th racer down the same track that claimed his teammate. Instead, he laid a bouquet of flowers at curve 16. How do you slide when your friend is gone and so many grieve his loss? It was a question left to others to explain.