[simsimi1004]

I just put it in for diagnostics
335i 2008 cabrio, sports package
I sometimes felt that coming to a slow stop, the rear brakes? feel that it grinds? sometimes i can feel a little rumble when this happens.

Anyways this doesnt happen all the time, so i went to BMW this morning and i left the car there.

They said they gonna CHARGE me 70$(half hour labor) if they cant find anything wrong. Am i just new to these things, or is this BS.

Few weeks ago i left my car there for a brake change cuz i heard squealing, but apparently it was just dirty rotors and they didnt charge me anything. Mind you they decided it was time for an oil change so they did that.
Another thing is that they said to fix the squeal problem, i pay to get the rotors cleaned. and ALOT of 335s have this problem.

if they dont find any problem, iis there anyway i can not get charged? im thinking of writing a letter to BMW corporate. iis this how the system works?
I dont get charged for any diagonistics at my Infiiniti dealer.(even if they dont find anything).

BMw disappoint

[JiggaZed]

The squeaking is a common issue. Some people will hear it for the rest of their lives.
I on the other hand only had to mention it once to them and they fixed it and I never heard it again.

I'm not so sure about the grinding/rumbling though.

Next time, search here: http://www.e90post.com

If they try to charge you, I just wouldn't pay. That's bullshit. I think it's just a threat to make sure you're not just sending your car in all the time for a free car wash or something LOL.

[simsimi1004]

you got it fixed at BJ for free?
how is it that they know the problem and know the solution but want to charge me while they fix yours for free. BJ has so many inconsistencies. if i want to writhe a letter to BMW where do i send it?

i posted here because its likely anyone on e90 thats local is also on here (since this is a post regarding a local dealersihp)

[JiggaZed]

you got it fixed at BJ for free?
how is it that they know the problem and know the solution but want to charge me while they fix yours for free. BJ has so many inconsistencies. if i want to writhe a letter to BMW where do i send it?

i posted here because its likely anyone on e90 thats local is also on here (since this is a post regarding a local dealersihp)

Why wouldn't they fix it for free? You still have warranty...and here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=24

A lot of those people are local.

[simsimi1004]

they told me the squealing was part of wear and tear. (brake dust buildup)
did i get bsed?

also i was told id get refunded for labor fees if they find the problem later on but if they cant find now, how can they find it later? who should i speak to if thhey find nothing.
i probably take them on a drive, and go from there.

[JiggaZed]

It's complete bullshit. They tend to do that a lot. I had switched my rims and had the flat-tire signal coming on as soon as I did so. The service advisor tried to tell me it's because my new rims don't have TPMS and that they'd charge me shitload to turn the signal off....It took me 10 minutes to explain to the service advisor that the stock rims in Canadian BMW's don't have TPMS and unless they sold me an American car, that shouldn't be the issue.

Finally, he's like okay I will bring that up with the technician.


This brake issue is complete bullshit. I don't really think it has anything to do with the dust. More like the sensors grinding or something. If I were you, I just wouldn't give up on the issue, nor would I pay for anything. Your car is brand new, you shouldn't be having to deal with "wear and tear" issues already.

[JulyZerg]

2008, you should be under warranty for at least another year.. and definitely write a letter to BMWNA to complain.

[bcedhk]

I don't think brake pads/Rotors are under warranty. Unless there is a problem right after installation/during installation will BMW pay for it. (dont 100% quote me on this).

you get free service if it is "regular maintenance" meaning when your warning light goes on (oil change, XXXXXXkm check, etc)... other problems like yours require you to pay.

The squeeky brakes indeed is a common issue to almost all E90/92's. Mostly you get it during start up right? The best solution is to change to an aftermarket pad.. I dont think BMW can void your warranty, since brake pads are even part of the warranty anyways lol.The OEM rear pads burn quick, almost around 25,000km will you have to change it.. I suggest an aftermarket solution and sticking with the OEM sensor. Nixon and CG offers good install rates and has cheaper parts compared to OEM.

Oh and JiggaZed, your flat tire goes on because you changed to a different tire spec. the sensor probably thought it is a flat tire due to the change in wheel rotation.. WHen ever you change rims/tire size, reset your tire sensor in "PARK" mode.

[bcedhk]

i bring my car to nixon or CG whenever there is a problem that is not a part of the regular maintenance package... BMW has the right to charge you $70 for the checkup cause thats the 30min rate.

[Eff-1]

It's a fuzzy area. Ideally it goes like this:

- If they check it and find a problem that is a warranty issue (defect), there is no charge to you.

- If they check it and find a problem that warranty doesn't cover, then you'll be billed for the diagnostic and repair.

- If they check it and find no problem, theoretically it should be covered under warranty. But every manufacturer is different, and every dealership is different.

Before you complain to BMWNA, i'd post your question at E90 forums. Then try another dealership. Phone in advance to find out their policy.

[Kalize]

weird my pads don't make any noises at all...

[wstce92]

I would definitely ask to speak to another SA or someone higher up. From my experience, there is NO way they would charge you for not finding a problem with your car while it's under warranty. Who's the SA you're dealing with right now? I know of at least two that work there that have 0 knowledge of any BMW's, and consistently try to screw over customers with crap like, "not covered, you'll have to pay". Last time that happened to me (no appointment so I couldn't deal with my regular SA who was busy), I asked to see my sales guy, who then told me to leave the car with him to have the tech's look at, and gave me a courtesy car to go home. And of course, no charge at all for me.

[bcrdukes]

Umm...even my 1989 BMW 325i brakes squeel. This is normal for German cars.

[Dinan3]

Request to go for a road test with the Shop Foreman. Maybe it's normal, then you can take your car back. If you need your brakes serviced, it's not covered under warranty so you'll have to pay.

If you still have a problem or concern, PM me your number and I'll look into it for you tomorrow at work.

[skyxx]

Umm...even my 1989 BMW 325i brakes squeal. This is normal for all cars.

Fixed it.

[Dinan3]

I would definitely ask to speak to another SA or someone higher up. From my experience, there is NO way they would charge you for not finding a problem with your car while it's under warranty. Who's the SA you're dealing with right now? I know of at least two that work there that have 0 knowledge of any BMW's, and consistently try to screw over customers with crap like, "not covered, you'll have to pay". Last time that happened to me (no appointment so I couldn't deal with my regular SA who was busy), I asked to see my sales guy, who then told me to leave the car with him to have the tech's look at, and gave me a courtesy car to go home. And of course, no charge at all for me.

May I ask how your Service Advisors were trying to "screw" you over? :)

[endless402]

i have same problem. it's due to glazing. shop guy said i have extreme glazing but cant be fixed cause it's not part of warranty. he just told me to brake harder....so stupid. theyre sticky when theyre cold and sweak and vibrate like hell at slow speeds


there was a service bullitin re brake sensor causing squeak. might try to force them to fix it next time

[!SG]

thats how it is with ALL DEALERSHIPS!

inspection fee, if u choose to get it fixed, they may or may not wave that 1/2 hr inspection fee.

hell, when i brought in my TV to get fixed at a TV repair place, they charged me $30 bucks to examine what was wrong with the TV. this was the diognose fee. if they found what was wrong, and it was under warranty, then the fee is waived. if they found what was wrong and it wasnt under warranty, they give me an quote, and if i choose to get it fixed at their shop, they would waive the fee. if they found what was wrong, and i didnt want them to fix it, they charge me that $30 bucks.

at the end of the day, someone has to pay for that tech to see about your car. either you pay, or the warranty pays (which is the head quarters eg toyota, honda, mazda, bmw, benz, audi...etc...).

[mj_39]

thats how it is with ALL DEALERSHIPS!

inspection fee, if u choose to get it fixed, they may or may not wave that 1/2 hr inspection fee.

hell, when i brought in my TV to get fixed at a TV repair place, they charged me $30 bucks to examine what was wrong with the TV. this was the diognose fee. if they found what was wrong, and it was under warranty, then the fee is waived. if they found what was wrong and it wasnt under warranty, they give me an quote, and if i choose to get it fixed at their shop, they would waive the fee. if they found what was wrong, and i didnt want them to fix it, they charge me that $30 bucks.

at the end of the day, someone has to pay for that tech to see about your car. either you pay, or the warranty pays (which is the head quarters eg toyota, honda, mazda, bmw, benz, audi...etc...).


Honestly that has never been the case for me or my dad. I have an 08 g35 he has an 03 which we've taken in for a couple reasons/concerns. Whether it was a warranty issue or not, neither of us have ever been charged an inspection fee. I have even had my brakes changed through warranty without hassle, completely free of charge. Why would you be charged for a inspection fee while your car is still under factory warranty?

[!SG]

because some parts arent under warranty. some are considered wear and tear.

and the brake thing with infiniti was well know warranty issue.

the question is if the problem IS a warranty issue or not. if it isnt, then who gets the bill?

Honestly that has never been the case for me or my dad. I have an 08 g35 he has an 03 which we've taken in for a couple reasons/concerns. Whether it was a warranty issue or not, neither of us have ever been charged an inspection fee. I have even had my brakes changed through warranty without hassle, completely free of charge. Why would you be charged for a inspection fee while your car is still under factory warranty?

[ivanz]

thats how it is with ALL DEALERSHIPS!


No it is not. I have dealt with Lexus, Honda, and Mitsubishi dealers for under warranty cars, and none of them charged me a diagnostic fee nor did they ever mention it...even for items that could potentially be related to wear and tear components.
I would personally feel insulted after buying a new car and being treated that way...I have better things to do than waste the dealers time and waste mine while I am waiting for them to diagnose it. So if I take the time to come to a dealer, that means there is a problem...and denying it plus charging extra is just a smack in the face.
I'll be sure not to buy any car from BJ if that is how they treat their customers, that's for sure.

[!SG]

maybe because you happen to just know someone there.

ever had ur car scanned by an obd reader from the dealership? they charge for that.

if the part is under warranty, then the dealership should not charge anything. if its something small, that could be quickly diognosed, then there should be no charge. however, if its something that requires putting the car on the hoist and or removing the wheels off the car to inspect, then a 1/2 hr inspection fee is standard practice.

smaller shops will bypass this, especially to familiar customers.

No it is not. I have dealt with Lexus, Honda, and Mitsubishi dealers for under warranty cars, and none of them charged me a diagnostic fee nor did they ever mention it...even for items that could potentially be related to wear and tear components.
I would personally feel insulted after buying a new car and being treated that way...I have better things to do than waste the dealers time and waste mine while I am waiting for them to diagnose it. So if I take the time to come to a dealer, that means there is a problem...and denying it plus charging extra is just a smack in the face.
I'll be sure not to buy any car from BJ if that is how they treat their customers, that's for sure.

[toyota86]

just a thought
get a flashlight and check actual thickness of pads and condition of rotor.
if nothing looks out of the ordinary, find a empty stretch of road, bring it up to 100 and apply the brakes firmly without engaging abs. repeat a few times. if the squealing goes away then you have just fixed the problem yourself.

[TRD3000GT]

If you can replicate the problem anytime, make an appointment with The BMW Store requesting a testdrive with the shop foreman called Albert. He is the only one who has the knowledge fixing different problems on my car. People at the other dealerships are just too "industry standard"... ;)

[JiggaZed]

Here is where I am confused about the situation.

This squealing issue is a common problem in almost all BMW's. Why is it that when I have driven to about 20,000 ticks that most BMW's start making this squealing noise. Is BMW telling me that this is normal in cars? I've had 2 Hondas and an Audi. My Honda started squealing when the brakes need to be replaced. That is not the case with the BMW squealing issue. So is that's SUPPOSED to happen with BMW's? Is it my fault? Yes, brakes wear out, but this has nothing to do with the brakes being worn out.

What should be happening with this issue is a ginormous recall and some1 figure out how to prevent this stupid shit from happening in the first place.

[ezekiel]

hey guys im the op, i got my acc banned for a week cuz of posting in buy/sell and not using PM. anyways,

The inconsistency is what pisses me up the most.
They didnt charge me for diagnostics fee. even though its a good thing, why would the SA bring it up in the first place then? is that a scare tactic so the mechanic doesnt have to do work? (btw, me nor bmw could replicate the problem so nothing was done)

About the squeling problem.
when they checked for squealing that determined it was wear and tear (brake dust buildup on rotors) and they didnt charge me diagnostic fees either. I believed it.
But reading more on the problem, i learned, and how can i be sure that brakedust is the problem. I mean come-on the brake squealing problem is a well known problem in the e90 community. theres even a TSB at http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B340808g.htm im guessing it is an official bmw site.
Anyways was my car really a case of brake dust buildup that nothing can be done about. Or is it the the problem in the TSB.

BJ dealer said its buildup but i think otherwise. how can i make them fix it.
On the drive with forman trying to replicate the grinding noise, i mentioned about this squealing, and how i did some reading online. and how i found a TSB.
he said well i have to becareful with online blah
so i said well its from the offical bmw site.
he said oh, well you also have to see whether its from the US or canada and such.
so i said ok, i havent been reading that far into it so ill research some more and come back.

Is there any reason why mechanics try to avoid fixing a TSB and lieing about it?
Or am i being a internet biased annoying person. This might be the case. dont know but im going to try to capture the sound on video and see what e90 community thinks about it. once i have approval, then i can be more confident at bitching to the dealers.

[JiggaZed]

When I changed my wheels, I had the deflated tire warning come up.

I took it into the dealer and the SA called me a couple hours earlier asking if my new wheels had TPMS in it. I told him no and he told me that I would have to pay $300 if I wanted to get the signal removed. I kid you not, that is exactly what he told me.

I then did some research and found out that Canadian vehicles don't have TPMS system in the wheels. I called my SA back and told him this. He denied it at first. I read out exactly what I read on the computer screen in front of me and even then he was like "Okay, I will mention it to the technician that is working with your car."

Right...cause the technician doesn't already know that, right? So had I not known anything or even bothered to do research, they would've charged me $300 to simply turn a "deflated tire" warning off.

That's pretty cool.

[Dinan3]

When I changed my wheels, I had the deflated tire warning come up.

I took it into the dealer and the SA called me a couple hours earlier asking if my new wheels had TPMS in it. I told him no and he told me that I would have to pay $300 if I wanted to get the signal removed. I kid you not, that is exactly what he told me.

I then did some research and found out that Canadian vehicles don't have TPMS system in the wheels. I called my SA back and told him this. He denied it at first. I read out exactly what I read on the computer screen in front of me and even then he was like "Okay, I will mention it to the technician that is working with your car."

Right...cause the technician doesn't already know that, right? So had I not known anything or even bothered to do research, they would've charged me $300 to simply turn a "deflated tire" warning off.

That's pretty cool.

Which dealership did you go to? You could have reset the TPM yourself.

[Dinan3]

Here is where I am confused about the situation.

This squealing issue is a common problem in almost all BMW's. Why is it that when I have driven to about 20,000 ticks that most BMW's start making this squealing noise. Is BMW telling me that this is normal in cars? I've had 2 Hondas and an Audi. My Honda started squealing when the brakes need to be replaced. That is not the case with the BMW squealing issue. So is that's SUPPOSED to happen with BMW's? Is it my fault? Yes, brakes wear out, but this has nothing to do with the brakes being worn out.

What should be happening with this issue is a ginormous recall and some1 figure out how to prevent this stupid shit from happening in the first place.

Brake squeal is normal over time (from BMW bulletin re: brake squeal). You can have your brakes serviced to make it better but it may come back.

If I'm not mistaken, BMW brakes require replacement between 20,000km to 40,000km depending on driving conditions.

The brakes on my S2k and RSX squeal too. :D

[Dinan3]

hey guys im the op, i got my acc banned for a week cuz of posting in buy/sell and not using PM. anyways,

The inconsistency is what pisses me up the most.
They didnt charge me for diagnostics fee. even though its a good thing, why would the SA bring it up in the first place then? is that a scare tactic so the mechanic doesnt have to do work? (btw, me nor bmw could replicate the problem so nothing was done)

About the squeling problem.
when they checked for squealing that determined it was wear and tear (brake dust buildup on rotors) and they didnt charge me diagnostic fees either. I believed it.
But reading more on the problem, i learned, and how can i be sure that brakedust is the problem. I mean come-on the brake squealing problem is a well known problem in the e90 community. theres even a TSB at http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B340808g.htm im guessing it is an official bmw site.
Anyways was my car really a case of brake dust buildup that nothing can be done about. Or is it the the problem in the TSB.

BJ dealer said its buildup but i think otherwise. how can i make them fix it.
On the drive with forman trying to replicate the grinding noise, i mentioned about this squealing, and how i did some reading online. and how i found a TSB.
he said well i have to becareful with online blah
so i said well its from the offical bmw site.
he said oh, well you also have to see whether its from the US or canada and such.
so i said ok, i havent been reading that far into it so ill research some more and come back.

Is there any reason why mechanics try to avoid fixing a TSB and lieing about it?
Or am i being a internet biased annoying person. This might be the case. dont know but im going to try to capture the sound on video and see what e90 community thinks about it. once i have approval, then i can be more confident at bitching to the dealers.

Not sure if you received my last PM, but I can help you look into this so there's no misunderstanding. :)

[Dinan3]

No it is not. I have dealt with Lexus, Honda, and Mitsubishi dealers for under warranty cars, and none of them charged me a diagnostic fee nor did they ever mention it...even for items that could potentially be related to wear and tear components.
I would personally feel insulted after buying a new car and being treated that way...I have better things to do than waste the dealers time and waste mine while I am waiting for them to diagnose it. So if I take the time to come to a dealer, that means there is a problem...and denying it plus charging extra is just a smack in the face.
I'll be sure not to buy any car from BJ if that is how they treat their customers, that's for sure.

If you just bought a new car, you probably wouldn't need to worry about a "wear and tear" item anytime soon.

What SG's implying is that at the end of the day, some one has to get paid for the time spent and work done. If the repair is not covered by BMW Warranty (Ie: Brakes, Alignment, Upholstery, Tires, Batteries, Paint Finish, etc), and the customer refused to pay for it, who's going to pay the Techs for time spent?

With that said, we will always listen to the customer's point of view and their reasons. That's why we have a management team and Customer Relations Dept to address your concerns. ;)

[JiggaZed]

Which dealership did you go to? You could have reset the TPM yourself.

Brian Jessel, I could have, but my car was due for service anyway so I thought it would be a lot easier for them than it would be for me. Plus, who knows if it may have been some other issue as the system didn't throw me the signal until a couple days after I had changed the wheels. And whether I could reset the TPM myself or not is besides the point...

Brake squeal is normal over time (from BMW bulletin re: brake squeal). You can have your brakes serviced to make it better but it may come back.

If I'm not mistaken, BMW brakes require replacement between 20,000km to 40,000km depending on driving conditions.

The brakes on my S2k and RSX squeal too. :D

I still had 50% of my brake pads left, they even told me that at the time....They did "service" my brakes and I haven't heard the noise since. That was about a 1.5-2 years ago.

[Dinan3]

Brian Jessel, I could have, but my car was due for service anyway so I thought it would be a lot easier for them than it would be for me. Plus, who knows if it may have been some other issue as the system didn't throw me the signal until a couple days after I had changed the wheels. And whether I could reset the TPM myself or not is besides the point...



I still had 50% of my brake pads left, they even told me that at the time....They did "service" my brakes and I haven't heard the noise since. That was about a 1.5-2 years ago.

Yes, whether or not you can reset the TPM light has nothing to do with your concern at hand, I was just wondering. You can PM me your info and I'll check out your Service History and provide you with a better explanation of what was communicated to you and why.

As for the brakes, I'm happy to hear that the squeal is not coming back. :)

[!SG]

build up of brake dust.

in recent years, manufactuers have been pushing for better braking. thus you see cars coming out with standard 16in wheels now to clear the ever larger brake rotor. on that note, most know that brake pads wear out faster than brake rotors. to get the best optimal braking power possible, manufactuers have opted for a harder brake compound with a softer brake rotor. this also evens out the life span of both to be closer to similar hence why nowadays, the dealers tell you to get the pad and the rotor changed instead of just machining the rotor (also a good way to make more money).

so after 20,000km, you build up a lot of dust, and that causes a lot of the squeeling. its probably also the brake compound itself. if u ever looked at the front wheels on a bmw, there is a lot of brake dust! A LOT!

a good rule of thumb for any vehicle is to have your brakes checked every 1.5 to 2 years.

if you think bmw brakes are bad, you havent heard my hawk hps, every time, cold, wet, dry, rain, snow, dry, DRY, they squeal inches upon a dead stop, they squeal!!

and educated service advisors are hard to come by. they have to be good at customer service, BUT nowhere in the hiring book says they have to be educated about cars in general.

If you have a canadian BMW, you have no tpms. HOWEVER, switches wheels back n forth all the time, plays around with the computer that monitors it. so if you get the signal warning, either drive it around for a bit longer and hope the computer realizes it didnt goof up, or reset it ( i think there was a button you hold or mash like on a ps3)

Here is where I am confused about the situation.

This squealing issue is a common problem in almost all BMW's. Why is it that when I have driven to about 20,000 ticks that most BMW's start making this squealing noise. Is BMW telling me that this is normal in cars? I've had 2 Hondas and an Audi. My Honda started squealing when the brakes need to be replaced. That is not the case with the BMW squealing issue. So is that's SUPPOSED to happen with BMW's? Is it my fault? Yes, brakes wear out, but this has nothing to do with the brakes being worn out.

What should be happening with this issue is a ginormous recall and some1 figure out how to prevent this stupid shit from happening in the first place.

[!SG]

and word of caution, using the internet to do ur research is great, use it as a tool, but not the final be all and end all answer to what problems you have.

just make sure u provide the right info to help the tech along to solving your problems. providing them with a video of "2 girls 1 cup" will not get ur car back on the road... just because you found it on the internet.

if i believed everything i saw on the net, then everyone is emo, playing poker, and learning hebrew online.

[ivanz]

maybe because you happen to just know someone there.

ever had ur car scanned by an obd reader from the dealership? they charge for that.

if the part is under warranty, then the dealership should not charge anything. if its something small, that could be quickly diognosed, then there should be no charge. however, if its something that requires putting the car on the hoist and or removing the wheels off the car to inspect, then a 1/2 hr inspection fee is standard practice.

smaller shops will bypass this, especially to familiar customers.

Nope, don't know anybody at those dealers apart from the service people who I meet when I bring the car in...and I "know" them as in remembering their name or how they look like. In my case Regency Lexus, Vancouver Mitsubishi, and Kingsway Honda...not some mom and pop places.

It is the dealers responsibility to look into customer issues with the car; that's why they are an official dealer. The whole point of a dealership is to ensure the customer has the best buying and servicing experience. Otherwise, we would be buying cars at SuperStore. It is their obligation to check if an issue is warranty related for free...and lets face it, most of it can be determined in quite a short time if it is wear and tear. The worst that the dealer would have to do is put it up and take off the wheels.
If they are not willing to do this for free, then they are not honouring warranty service which they are obligated to. Not to mention if they find it to be worn brake pads, they would most likely earn money from replacing them.

If you just bought a new car, you probably wouldn't need to worry about a "wear and tear" item anytime soon.

What SG's implying is that at the end of the day, some one has to get paid for the time spent and work done. If the repair is not covered by BMW Warranty (Ie: Brakes, Alignment, Upholstery, Tires, Batteries, Paint Finish, etc), and the customer refused to pay for it, who's going to pay the Techs for time spent?

With that said, we will always listen to the customer's point of view and their reasons. That's why we have a management team and Customer Relations Dept to address your concerns. ;)

Lots of newer cars have brake noise issues which are totally unrelated to wear and tear. The dealer could just charge a fee and say there is nothing wrong when something clearly is. What are you supposed to do then? Play the lottery again at a different dealer?

Techs are paid per hour, not by their hourly charge (which is like 4x their pay). They have free times and bays during the day that can be used to diagnose problems...most dealers have you make an appointment when they have a free slot in order to check out the problem. It's not rocket science, I'm sure the 3 dealers I went to don't look at stuff because they like me and have warm and fuzzy feelings that offset their costs.

[!SG]

hence why in my post i said if it was warranty related, the dealership SHOULD waive the inspection fee. wear and tear may or may not be covered under warranty. this all depends on what type of regular warranty the car has, and or any extended special warranty was purchased.

reading comprehension...

what is stopping someone from bringing in their car, having it inspected, then turning around and saying "ill just get it fixed at abc shop, but thanx for telling me whats wrong!". that is why there is an inspection fee, to prevent everyone from doing this. good technicians will tell you straight out weather u can live with the issue for a bit longer, or it needs immediate attention.

you may have an outstanding track record, and thus by history, you get the premium treatment.

not all techs are paid by hour as you describe. some are paid by job. its dependant on the dealership/shop policy.

I think you are confusing what is considered warranty. please desrcibe what your definition of warranty is?

Nope, don't know anybody at those dealers apart from the service people who I meet when I bring the car in...and I "know" them as in remembering their name or how they look like. In my case Regency Lexus, Vancouver Mitsubishi, and Kingsway Honda...not some mom and pop places.

It is the dealers responsibility to look into customer issues with the car; that's why they are an official dealer. The whole point of a dealership is to ensure the customer has the best buying and servicing experience. Otherwise, we would be buying cars at SuperStore. It is their obligation to check if an issue is warranty related for free...and lets face it, most of it can be determined in quite a short time if it is wear and tear. The worst that the dealer would have to do is put it up and take off the wheels.
If they are not willing to do this for free, then they are not honouring warranty service which they are obligated to. Not to mention if they find it to be worn brake pads, they would most likely earn money from replacing them.



Lots of newer cars have brake noise issues which are totally unrelated to wear and tear. The dealer could just charge a fee and say there is nothing wrong when something clearly is. What are you supposed to do then? Play the lottery again at a different dealer?

Techs are paid per hour, not by their hourly charge (which is like 4x their pay). They have free times and bays during the day that can be used to diagnose problems...most dealers have you make an appointment when they have a free slot in order to check out the problem. It's not rocket science, I'm sure the 3 dealers I went to don't look at stuff because they like me and have warm and fuzzy feelings that offset their costs.

[ivanz]

hence why in my post i said if it was warranty related, the dealership SHOULD waive the inspection fee. wear and tear may or may not be covered under warranty. this all depends on what type of regular warranty the car has, and or any extended special warranty was purchased.


What's to prevent a dealer from saying it is not a warranty issue when it clearly is?


reading comprehension...


eh?


what is stopping someone from bringing in their car, having it inspected, then turning around and saying "ill just get it fixed at abc shop, but thanx for telling me whats wrong!". that is why there is an inspection fee, to prevent everyone from doing this. good technicians will tell you straight out weather u can live with the issue for a bit longer, or it needs immediate attention.


Why would anybody get it fixed somewhere else and pay when it is covered under warranty?



you may have an outstanding track record, and thus by history, you get the premium treatment.


Not really, they just do it because it is policy. If they didn't, I would raise hell for them trying to charge me x amount of dollars just to see if it is under warranty. I've had a warranty repair rejected that required a test drive + take off wheels, and I didn't get charged anything.


not all techs are paid by hour as you describe. some are paid by job. its dependant on the dealership/shop policy.


That's usually in smaller shops. They don't do warranty work and are not certified for it usually. But anyways, regardless, they have funds to do this.


I think you are confusing what is considered warranty. please desrcibe what your definition of warranty is?

No I think you are confusing warranty with no warranty at all. Warranty = either b2b or powertrain limited for x amount of years or kms. If the car has a valid warranty, then it is the dealerships job to diagnose any complaint that may be related to the parts covered under the warranty.
If there is any squeaky/vibrating brake TSB for example, it is their job to inspect the brakes to confirm whether it is a problem or not. They have funds to cover this sort of stuff, and they will most likely get money from the customer to replace them since they are already there if they simply need new pads.

[?NR]

well, just because you per say didn't get charged for it, doesn't mean they didn't charge anything. They'll charge back to warranty for flat rate diagnosis time, in which case alot of times dealers won't tell you.

Dealers will charge warranty if they can get away with it, otherwise they'll charge you and usually they'll tell you upfront. If they don't, lucky you because they probably internal the charges as a good will gesture.

Say for example you have a noise issue on brakes, they'll shove it onto the hoist to determine the fault. Bear in mind the moment it goes onto the hoist, tech time is running already. Most of the time, the dealer would tell you of the diagnosis charge that you are responsible for on the spot IF they cannot fault it to a warranty issue or manufacturer defect. If they can fault it and it is consistent with your complaint, big chance it will be completely covered by the manufacturer. If they cannot fault it to a manufacturer, which means no coverage, then you are responsible for the charges incurred since the car is hoisted up whether it'd be flat rate diagnosis or per hour charges.

it's just business, someone has to pay. Dealer or not, it is still a business regardless of who they represent. It is allowed by the parent/corporate office. IF you happen to disagree with a charge, you can always write to the corporate office to voice your concerns if you cannot resolve with inhouse customer relations or service managers, they are there for that purpose.

[!SG]

all, see thats what i mean, b2b, bumper to bumper, does not mean wear and tear.

wear and tear is just that. if its something like oil change, it will actually say, lifetime oil change, or actually list it out on the warranty card. however, brakes usual are not covered. unless its a manufactuer defect, then thats considered manufactuer warranty.

that is why there is the whole inspection fee in place, if you choose to get the car fixed at the same place it was inspected this fee is usually waived, cancelled, removed, gone. this is to prevent ppl from bringing in their car, have it inspected, told whats wrong with the car, then have the customer drive away and bring it to a cheaper shop using cheaper inferior aftermarket parts. this comes down to the original question, warranty. brake pads are not covered under warranty. most fluids are not covered under warranty unless outlined specifically in the warranty card.

a dealer has to be credible for everything they do under that car makers brand. they get audits to show and confirm that anything they do under warranty is, lack of a better word, warranted. they represent the brand, and its reputation, so thus if they are incorrectly representing that brand, they will be held accountable. It doesnt take rocket science to know there are far more complications to running a dealership than "sell cars, fix cars".

this comes back to the original question, what you consider as warranty? because bumper to bumper, does not mean wear and tear. read the warranty card, it will outline it clearly, and clearer than i can.

so... you are one of those guys that raises hell at futureshop/bestbuy like in those youtube videos =)

What's to prevent a dealer from saying it is not a warranty issue when it clearly is?



eh?



Why would anybody get it fixed somewhere else and pay when it is covered under warranty?




Not really, they just do it because it is policy. If they didn't, I would raise hell for them trying to charge me x amount of dollars just to see if it is under warranty. I've had a warranty repair rejected that required a test drive + take off wheels, and I didn't get charged anything.



That's usually in smaller shops. They don't do warranty work and are not certified for it usually. But anyways, regardless, they have funds to do this.



No I think you are confusing warranty with no warranty at all. Warranty = either b2b or powertrain limited for x amount of years or kms. If the car has a valid warranty, then it is the dealerships job to diagnose any complaint that may be related to the parts covered under the warranty.
If there is any squeaky/vibrating brake TSB for example, it is their job to inspect the brakes to confirm whether it is a problem or not. They have funds to cover this sort of stuff, and they will most likely get money from the customer to replace them since they are already there if they simply need new pads.

[ezekiel]

and word of caution, using the internet to do ur research is great, use it as a tool, but not the final be all and end all answer to what problems you have.

just make sure u provide the right info to help the tech along to solving your problems. providing them with a video of "2 girls 1 cup" will not get ur car back on the road... just because you found it on the internet.

if i believed everything i saw on the net, then everyone is emo, playing poker, and learning hebrew online.

Yes you are right! that is why i wrote Or am i being a internet biased annoying person. This might be the case. dont know but im going to try to capture the sound on video and see what e90 community thinks about it. once i have approval, then i can be more confident at bitching to the dealers.

Despite my bitching on RS, I havent disagreed with anything the a BJ employ has said, because i dont know who is right. That is why i plan to make the video and show it to the e90 community or even just jiggazed to decide. I dont know if the squeal im hearing is what the e90s are referring to so yea.

If even just jiggazed confirms that the problem he had was same, then thats whenn all hell breaks lose.
Why was his fixed but mine?
Why didnt they fix it the first place.
why do i have to create this thread and research when it couldve been a known fix from the dealer?


And As i mentioned before, im sure i do have a Service inclusive 3/60Term.
which on the BMW site says
Brake lining, Brake rotors, engine belts, wiper blades, clutch components, minor adjustments.
Is brake lining / rotors = brake pads? The package i have gives me free brake pad replacement if i go under a certain % left.
Anyways, if it is the package that i have, shouldntSqueal should fall under brake rotors and minor adjustments no?
I asked if my package does anything to cover that.
but obviously they said, oh well the squeal isnt covered under that package etc.

Dinan3 you got PM.

[!SG]

if what you find is suppose to be covered under warranty, go give them hell! im a believer that SA's should be at least up to date with some basic knowledge on the cars they are suggesting services on. What i suggest is print out all material you can, and use those as possible issues to look into.

What i was trying to illustrate in my posts was that not everything is covered under warranty. bumper to bumper does not mean that if u crash ur car, the dealership will give you a new hood, door, fender. yes they sit between ur front bumper, and rear bumper, but does not mean they are covered under warranty.

The worse i ever had to deal with was tire shops that were first introduced to the tpms sensors. they were cutting them off and throwing them away when doing new tires on wheels/cars that had them. Then those customers come to me (the shop i worked) and ask us to diognose the problem. In the end, no one wants to pay another 70 bucks per tire for a new tpms just because an uneducated tire shop decided to throw the old ones away like regular tire stems.

Yes you are right! that is why i wrote

Despite my bitching on RS, I havent disagreed with anything the a BJ employ has said, because i dont know who is right. That is why i plan to make the video and show it to the e90 community or even just jiggazed to decide. I dont know if the squeal im hearing is what the e90s are referring to so yea.

If even just jiggazed confirms that the problem he had was same, then thats whenn all hell breaks lose.
Why was his fixed but mine?
Why didnt they fix it the first place.
why do i have to create this thread and research when it couldve been a known fix from the dealer?

[?NR]

Request to go for a road test with the Shop Foreman. Maybe it's normal, then you can take your car back. If you need your brakes serviced, it's not covered under warranty so you'll have to pay.

If you still have a problem or concern, PM me your number and I'll look into it for you tomorrow at work.

:p should determine whether or not they have service inclusive package before you make that statement Tim

[Dinan3]

:p should determine whether or not they have service inclusive package before you make that statement Tim

Thanks. :D

[endless402]

interesting to see if BMW actually fixes this problem, then maybe they can fix my brakes too

[no_clue]

I don't get brian jessel bmw, I asked for a visual inspection report of my car and they quoted me $450 while autowest quoted $79.

I used to be a big fan of BJ bmw but nowadays autowest is stepping up in their service department.

[endless402]

you would think with all the recalls lately that they would take this issue more seriously.

[ezekiel]

this is not my own video but its same to what it sounds like.
YouTube- BMW E90 335i Brake Squeal / Squeak

what do u guys think? so far ive been told its normal wear and tear.

[Iron Chef]

Mercedes has a 2 year warranty on brakes which i find surprising. Even if you go through brakes within 2 years they will replace them under warranty.

I though BMW would have similar warranty.

[skyxx]

I don't get brian jessel bmw, I asked for a visual inspection report of my car and they quoted me $450 while autowest quoted $79.

I used to be a big fan of BJ bmw but nowadays autowest is stepping up in their service department.

"Stepping up" as in having a cheaper price? I guess you can call that a "step up".

[ivanz]

all, see thats what i mean, b2b, bumper to bumper, does not mean wear and tear.

wear and tear is just that. if its something like oil change, it will actually say, lifetime oil change, or actually list it out on the warranty card. however, brakes usual are not covered. unless its a manufactuer defect, then thats considered manufactuer warranty.

that is why there is the whole inspection fee in place, if you choose to get the car fixed at the same place it was inspected this fee is usually waived, cancelled, removed, gone. this is to prevent ppl from bringing in their car, have it inspected, told whats wrong with the car, then have the customer drive away and bring it to a cheaper shop using cheaper inferior aftermarket parts. this comes down to the original question, warranty. brake pads are not covered under warranty. most fluids are not covered under warranty unless outlined specifically in the warranty card.

a dealer has to be credible for everything they do under that car makers brand. they get audits to show and confirm that anything they do under warranty is, lack of a better word, warranted. they represent the brand, and its reputation, so thus if they are incorrectly representing that brand, they will be held accountable. It doesnt take rocket science to know there are far more complications to running a dealership than "sell cars, fix cars".

this comes back to the original question, what you consider as warranty? because bumper to bumper, does not mean wear and tear. read the warranty card, it will outline it clearly, and clearer than i can.

so... you are one of those guys that raises hell at futureshop/bestbuy like in those youtube videos =)

Ok, you either haven't read my post(s) or don't have a firm understanding of English (which I doubt). I am not talking about brake pads worn down to the metal and squeaking, but warrantable repairs. If somebody has a new car, they have to usually service it at the dealer. Most dealers check your brake pads, and it would be obvious if it started squeaking after they inspected it a while back and found them to be at 10%.
However, stuff like warped rotors or similar, if covered under warranty (which most high end manufacturers do), can produce the same issues. So it is the dealers responsibility to investigate anything which can potentailly be an issue covered under warranty.

I see that you work in parts, so I can understand that you may not know the correct procedure when it comes to warranty issues, so I wont take your response as an official BJ policy guide.
And by raise hell I do mean contacting corporate and getting an investigation going. I have done it with Lexus, and got a prompt response where the dealer was forced to fix what they denied before. I also got an apology for them wasting my time by making me come down 3 times only to deny the problem exists.
All I can say is if you buy a new car and expect that kind of treatment, your dealer will walk all over you while laughing all the way to the bank.

[!SG]

I have read your post, and i do have an understanding of english, however, IN this thread, the OP stated his case with involved the brakes. You however brought up warranty. We tried to explain that wear and tear of brakes are not considered warranty. Warped rotors, are iffy at best. The dealership has to show the big parent corporation that the claim for each item must be "warranted" for warranty. The inspection fee, should be waived, if the part is found to be under warranty, or can be claimed under warranty. But until that can be proven or claimed, the inspection fee is there as a safe guard.

It isnt the consumers right to assume everything is under warranty. i see that you are a consumer, and may not know all the policies, as am i, to automotive warranty. hence, go read the warranty card as i stated.

i myself have had brake pads claimed, under warranty, by honda, before on my previous car. the original set that came with the car, had a fracture along the brake pad, creating a gap between the metal and the brake pad material. i had the car inspected, they said that there is an inspection fee, but is waived if i get the job done there, and or found any problems to be under warranty. they found the brake pad to be defective, and thus put a claim through honda canada (parent corp) to have them covered under warranty. Pictures were taken, and sent. all was done and ok'd within an hour.

and if you are not happy with the answer you got, by all means, contact the parent company. but do no expect to always have your way, just because you purchased a high end vehicle. it doesnt make you any better of a person as the next person that purchased from another brand.

top dealers provide top service, but if you are expecting to be treated like caesar, then you got your delusions wrong. that may happen if you buy a lambo in vegas though. they may even open a few bottles of bubbly for you.




assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.

Ok, you either haven't read my post(s) or don't have a firm understanding of English (which I doubt). I am not talking about brake pads worn down to the metal and squeaking, but warrantable repairs. If somebody has a new car, they have to usually service it at the dealer. Most dealers check your brake pads, and it would be obvious if it started squeaking after they inspected it a while back and found them to be at 10%.
However, stuff like warped rotors or similar, if covered under warranty (which most high end manufacturers do), can produce the same issues. So it is the dealers responsibility to investigate anything which can potentailly be an issue covered under warranty.

I see that you work in parts, so I can understand that you may not know the correct procedure when it comes to warranty issues, so I wont take your response as an official BJ policy guide.
And by raise hell I do mean contacting corporate and getting an investigation going. I have done it with Lexus, and got a prompt response where the dealer was forced to fix what they denied before. I also got an apology for them wasting my time by making me come down 3 times only to deny the problem exists.
All I can say is if you buy a new car and expect that kind of treatment, your dealer will walk all over you while laughing all the way to the bank.

[!SG]

i see that you were not happy with my response and thus did a search on my username quickly to get any dirt you could to respond back.



good on your part for using the search function! I've always encouraged our members to use it! :)



I see that you work in parts, so I can understand that you may not know the correct procedure when it comes to warranty issues, so I wont take your response as an official BJ policy guide.
And by raise hell I do mean contacting corporate and getting an investigation going. I have done it with Lexus, and got a prompt response where the dealer was forced to fix what they denied before. I also got an apology for them wasting my time by making me come down 3 times only to deny the problem exists.
All I can say is if you buy a new car and expect that kind of treatment, your dealer will walk all over you while laughing all the way to the bank.

[ezekiel]

anyone notice that i posted up a video?
feedbacks please.
jiggazed, is that the same noise you had?

[!SG]

from what ive seen on bmw's, they create a huge amount of brake dust! (after working on them before at previous work)

the brake compound and softer rotors make for great stopping power, but do cause that squealing.

if enough ppl write into bmw (not talking about the dealer, but the top, the original, the headquarters) about the problem, and be persistant, there may be a chance, slight though, they will respond with action, like look into different brake compound or something. its highly doubtable, but who knows, maybe they will address the issue.

anyone notice that i posted up a video?
feedbacks please.
jiggazed, is that the same noise you had?

[JiggaZed]

anyone notice that i posted up a video?
feedbacks please.
jiggazed, is that the same noise you had?

That's the exact noise I had....and I am sure it's not brake dust, because if it was, I would hear the noise again by now....

[ezekiel]

If it's not too much trouble, maybe Jiggazed can give his info to Dinan3 for him to check what was actually done to Jiggazed's car and see why that can't be applied to my situation? Do you still happen to have the service report?