[StylinRed]

Cactus Club given thumbs up for English Bay
Park Board approves chain restaurant
Dave White Mar 22, 2010 20:55:04 PM
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VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Vancouver's park board has decided to let a Cactus Club restaurant to set up shop in place of the concession stand at English Bay.

The deal promises to bring $240,000 a year in rent plus four per cent of revenue. Last year the concession stand, which stands in the spot now, only pulled in $63,000.

The 4,000 square-foot restaurant is expected to be completed by June, 2011.

Commissioner Stuart MacKinnon was the only member of the board to vote against the plan.

Many critics worry the restaurant will block public access to the beach, but the board says the facility will be located above the beach, where the concession stand is currently located.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/38226--cactus-club-given-thumbs-up-for-english-bay

i thought it was just proposed not certain...

ugh i think its a bad idea, they should leave the concession on the main floor and put the cactus club upstairs

[Inaii]

Or pick a better restaurant...

[StylinRed]

yeah that too :)

[TOS'd]

Lol, Stuart MacKinnon.

I know who that is. Always trying to be different and votes against everyone else.

[orange7]

they should put a a pho restaurant instead.

[hal0g0dv2]

they should put a a pho restaurant instead.

That would be dope
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[bengy]

^ Yeah nothing better like hot soup on a hot sunny day at the beach...

[Durrann]

yeah i agree put a better restaurant there

the only restaurants that can afford it i guess are corporates

[StealthFighter]

Doesn't Jericho or kits have a restaurant there?

I think a more seafood oriented restaurant should have gone there instead.


LIKE THE CANNERY!!!!

[Levitron]

Only if they dress in bikinis.

[F1 4ever]

Doesn't Jericho or kits have a restaurant there?

I think a more seafood oriented restaurant should have gone there instead.


LIKE THE CANNERY!!!!

You are right it would be great, but then the amount of money they will need to put in to build the restaurant is one thing, not every restaurant is a chain restaurant like cactus or earls where they can pulls out that much money to build a restaurant. Second to attract the same amount and the same kind of customer to the Cannery might be hard. Plus where are they going to find parking.

[Mananetwork]

Only if they dress in bikinis.

I like where you're going with this idea!

[Nocardia]

What kind of restaurant do you guys want?
Who eats sushi or pho on the beach?

Cactus club is a good match, its locally owned and operated. They plan to have a concession type area plus the restaurant and that way its not super sketchy getting some fries or a hot dog. I only really see an upside to this, does anyone have any realistic complaints other than whining about a place they probably never go to anyways?

[StylinRed]

wally's burger :thumbsup:

[SkinnyPupp]

Hi, I'm from Greater Vancouver, and I like to complain about everything.

[StylinRed]

Hi, I'm from Greater Vancouver, and I like to complain about everything.

:haha: i guess that's true, but thats probably because we have it so great here; so we hate seeing things changed

[Vansterdam]

they shouldof opened another captain happy bubble up stairs :thumbsup:

[tacobell]

city of vancouver is estimating this deal would net them $4 million over the next four years; it's gonna be tough for another restaurant that can offer a better deal for COV.

I'm all for the city trying to generate revenue than the usual tax hike.

[Tapioca]

The park board chair was on CBC Radio One on Monday morning and he said that only 3 companies submitted proposals to the city after posting its Request-for-Proposal. So, before people complain about Cactus Club, there were indeed a lack of choices.

The city got a pretty darn good deal for this. They are basically charging Cactus a ridiculous amount of rent and Cactus has to pay for the construction of a building too.

[orange7]

they shouldof opened another captain happy bubble up stairs :thumbsup:

haha.. Captain Happy Bubble right at English Bay. That would be awesome....

[Inaii]

What kind of restaurant do you guys want?
Who eats sushi or pho on the beach?

Cactus club is a good match, its locally owned and operated. They plan to have a concession type area plus the restaurant and that way its not super sketchy getting some fries or a hot dog. I only really see an upside to this, does anyone have any realistic complaints other than whining about a place they probably never go to anyways?

You mean besides the fact that their food is terrible and their service is even worse? EVERY cactus club I have EVER been to has had horrible food for the amount they charge, which I'm sure they will increase because of the location. And it's ridiculous that it takes the waitresses 15 minutes to come back with a simple drink, when it's not busy. They should maybe think about employing waitresses who can handle multiple tasks rather than ones with huge boobs.

[Tapioca]

You mean besides the fact that their food is terrible and their service is even worse? EVERY cactus club I have EVER been to has had horrible food for the amount they charge, which I'm sure they will increase because of the location. And it's ridiculous that it takes the waitresses 15 minutes to come back with a simple drink, when it's not busy. They should maybe think about employing waitresses who can handle multiple tasks rather than ones with huge boobs.

Well, out of the 3 companies who submitted a proposal, the fact that Cactus Club was probably the one who was able to put up the money the city wanted under this deal says something about our city. Cactus (and Earls and Joey's) are only offering what the market demands.

Say what you want, but males, between the ages of 20-45, run the racket in this town. :)

[nns]

You're all quick to write the history books before the events have even happened.

There are plenty of peons out there who would willingly visit this location. Convenience is a huge factor. Brand name is another. I don't go to a concession stand looking for prime service and food quality; I go for quick food. As for their full-fledged restaurant, like I said before, there are plenty of peons who will happily fill their guts and empty their wallets there.

You guys talk about bad service/food like it's a deal-breaker. How is it that every other crappy restaurant is still open then? Fish on Rice, ABC, etc.

Unless you guys can think of an alternative that can generate a guaranteed $4 million, I suggest you sit down and take a lesson in humility.

[raygunpk]

You're all quick to write the history books before the events have even happened.

There are plenty of peons out there who would willingly visit this location. Convenience is a huge factor. Brand name is another. I don't go to a concession stand looking for prime service and food quality; I go for quick food. As for their full-fledged restaurant, like I said before, there are plenty of peons who will happily fill their guts and empty their wallets there.

You guys talk about bad service/food like it's a deal-breaker. How is it that every other crappy restaurant is still open then? Fish on Rice, ABC, etc.

Unless you guys can think of an alternative that can generate a guaranteed $4 million, I suggest you sit down and take a lesson in humility.

1. go into a future where everyone picked bj's
2. open a cheese stand
3. ???
4. profit

[Tapioca]

You're all quick to write the history books before the events have even happened.

There are plenty of peons out there who would willingly visit this location. Convenience is a huge factor. Brand name is another. I don't go to a concession stand looking for prime service and food quality; I go for quick food. As for their full-fledged restaurant, like I said before, there are plenty of peons who will happily fill their guts and empty their wallets there.

You guys talk about bad service/food like it's a deal-breaker. How is it that every other crappy restaurant is still open then? Fish on Rice, ABC, etc.

Unless you guys can think of an alternative that can generate a guaranteed $4 million, I suggest you sit down and take a lesson in humility.

Bang on.

If you work downtown, you know how hard it is to get a table at the Burrard Cactus for lunch, or after work on Friday nights.

If you're upset about Cactus because they have poor food, that is a different issue. Now that I think about it, my preference would have been for a White Spot/Triple O outlet because at least their burgers are good, but I'm sure the money wasn't there to top Cactus' bid. This is simply about dollars and cents. Cactus is banking that their loyal customer base will follow them to English Bay, while the City reaps $4 million plus 4% of total sales.

$4 million means the continued maintenance of the city parks. If the City didn't sellout this piece of real-estate, where would they have gotten that money? And don't bring up the Olympics.

[Inaii]

I wasn't saying they shouldn't put a restaurant there, I was saying they should have chose a better one. And I agree with you, White Spot would have been awesome to have on the beach.

[SkinnyPupp]

Yeah, white spot is so much better than cactus club.

[Inaii]

Considering they don't undercook their burgers and take forever with their drinks, ya they are.

[dizzystar]

man its not like rich needs the money, fucking one in delta pulls in 5.5+ million a year in sales.

[Graeme S]

FYI, this is a cactus-OWNED place, not a cactus restaurant. They said it was "highly unlikely" to carry the cactus club brand.

[StealthFighter]

If you're upset about Cactus because they have poor food, that is a different issue. Now that I think about it, my preference would have been for a White Spot/Triple O outlet because at least their burgers are good, but I'm sure the money wasn't there to top Cactus' bid. This is simply about dollars and cents. Cactus is banking that their loyal customer base will follow them to English Bay, while the City reaps $4 million plus 4% of total sales.



that's a great idea.

triple o's at the bottom for people walking on the beach

and a full white spot on top for sit down/patio.

[SkinnyPupp]

man its not like rich needs the money, fucking one in delta pulls in 5.5+ million a year in sales.
Those bastards! They don't deserve to make money, they should be giving it to us normal folk! And they shouldn't be allowed to open a restaurant in a park, because I had an undercooked burger there before! GRRR I AM SO MAD!!!

[Inaii]

God damn it, we should be allowed to fail your idiocy.

[hotjoint]

I like cactus clubs so it's all good
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[goo3]

no big deal, there's other places to eat across the street

[beanzzz]

man its not like rich needs the money, fucking one in delta pulls in 5.5+ million a year in sales.

When the Bentall 5 location opened in the summer of 08 they were doing around a quarter of a million in sales a week.

[tiger_handheld]

how many of you would go to this cactus club on December 11? or Jan 23 or Feb 5 or Nov 18?

location will only bring in seasonal sales. 8/10 will not want to sit near a beach on day that's snowing...

20k per month in rent , seems like ALOT, when you consider all the overhead, and food costs.

[tacobell]

how many of you would go to this cactus club on December 11? or Jan 23 or Feb 5 or Nov 18?

location will only bring in seasonal sales. 8/10 will not want to sit near a beach on day that's snowing...

20k per month in rent , seems like ALOT, when you consider all the overhead, and food costs.

You think the current restaurants on beach ave, davie street get no business during the cold season? lol. Heck, there's even a gelato place right on beach ave that is open year round and there's no shortage of ppl inside.

If you want a direct comparison, there's the restaurant at Kits beach, 'Watermark', it's certainly not the best restaurant out there, but reservations for dinner are still required.

I would love for a Triple O's as well, however it's not likely there will be another proposal that offers more compensation that what cactus is offering. I'm all for the city trying to get money from them, rather than the tax payers.

[Gt-R R34]

I agree with all points posted by tapioca and skinny. For anything burgers/hot dogs that people still want, I can already forsee, stalls openning up around the beach to service those clients. No one is losing out there.

I would prefer Cannery, but from the value to city and just the revenue generated. You can't really go wrong with corporate.

The deal promises to bring $240,000 a year in rent plus four per cent of revenue. Last year the concession stand, which stands in the spot now, only pulled in $63,000.

That alone already sold me. 240K plus 4% revenue, not even profit, straight rev.

Win/Win stand point from the city.

All those complaining about the restaurant, how bout they charge your property tax, an extra 100bucks for the use and maintenance of parks/beachs while keeping status quo? Or another scenario, Another better tasting restaurant or burger joint like Triple O's revenue is 100K in rent, with 1.75% in revenue, or 5% profit.

The city loses out on 600K a year in revenue.

Cactus Club OR that?

[Tapioca]

I agree with all points posted by tapioca and skinny. For anything burgers/hot dogs that people still want, I can already forsee, stalls openning up around the beach to service those clients. No one is losing out there.

I would prefer Cannery, but from the value to city and just the revenue generated. You can't really go wrong with corporate.


I doubt you'll see burger/hot dog stands spring up on the beach because the city is pretty anal about granting licenses for outdoor food stands. I would love to see other types of food other than hot dogs, but health and safety concerns trump all (which I suppose is defensible.)

I think we've basically convinced ourselves on this forum about the Cactus deal. The challenge, though, is to convince all of the other naysayers on other public forums. I understand how Cactus is a bit of a magnet for criticism because of their ho-hum food, questionable hiring practices, etc. If White Spot had won the bid, the optics would have been much better since they have a long-standing history.

As with the Olympics, the silent majority will win again with respect to this deal and we, the taxpayers, will benefit.

[BeachLover]

The Watermark at Kits Beach has ruined the quietness of that beach not just directly in front of the restaurant, but off to the sides too. Instead of being able to hear the sound of the waves and the wind, you hear the clanking of dishes and cutlery, and the bustle of a commercial operation. If we want to go to a large restaurant, there are plenty of options on Cornwall or Yew Street. A small scale concession, like they had, is suitable for that beach.
Ditto for English Bay. The charm of the old stands could have been enhanced with a renovation. There are plenty of large scale restaurants, like Milestone's and The Boat House, on Beach Avenue. The beaches must be a non-commercial zone.
I have now heard that Cactus is going for Jericho Beach as well. You can see where this is going...all our quiet public beaches with commercial businesses on them, and I'm sure Stanley Park is not far behind.
I am not against those restaurants - they are plenty of them near the beaches, but they are noisy, and will have to generate so much business to pay these bills, that they will undoubtedly be cranking out customers, specials nights and the associated noise.
$20,000 / month rent is a joke. My company pays $10,000 / month for a basement in the industrial area of Vancouver. The City could make that money by raising property taxes 2 cents per house.
I don;t remember any public enquiry, forum, or town hall meeting to discuss these proposals. The day I heard about Cactus at English Bay was the day before it went to vote. Why are we consulted when a condo is proposed, or a change of use for other buildings, and not something major like this? It seems it was all done in secret. I am a resident near Kits Beach and I didn;t hear a work about Watermark until it was too late.
Did any of you hear about this in advance, or were any of you given an opportunity to make your views heard before the deals were done?

[nipples]

Shouldve put a Harveys there. Those burgers are to die for!
Cactus only if maria works there naked! Sigh lol
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[nipples]

Scratch that. Maria, yass, and ayane! All naked!!!!!!
Celica knows what I'm talking about! Hahaha
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[Slifer]

^werd..thats a deadly combination :agree::ratedb:

[jigga250]

The Watermark at Kits Beach has ruined the quietness of that beach not just directly in front of the restaurant, but off to the sides too. Instead of being able to hear the sound of the waves and the wind, you hear the clanking of dishes and cutlery, and the bustle of a commercial operation. If we want to go to a large restaurant, there are plenty of options on Cornwall or Yew Street. A small scale concession, like they had, is suitable for that beach.
Ditto for English Bay. The charm of the old stands could have been enhanced with a renovation. There are plenty of large scale restaurants, like Milestone's and The Boat House, on Beach Avenue. The beaches must be a non-commercial zone.
I have now heard that Cactus is going for Jericho Beach as well. You can see where this is going...all our quiet public beaches with commercial businesses on them, and I'm sure Stanley Park is not far behind.
I am not against those restaurants - they are plenty of them near the beaches, but they are noisy, and will have to generate so much business to pay these bills, that they will undoubtedly be cranking out customers, specials nights and the associated noise.
$20,000 / month rent is a joke. My company pays $10,000 / month for a basement in the industrial area of Vancouver. The City could make that money by raising property taxes 2 cents per house.
I don;t remember any public enquiry, forum, or town hall meeting to discuss these proposals. The day I heard about Cactus at English Bay was the day before it went to vote. Why are we consulted when a condo is proposed, or a change of use for other buildings, and not something major like this? It seems it was all done in secret. I am a resident near Kits Beach and I didn;t hear a work about Watermark until it was too late.
Did any of you hear about this in advance, or were any of you given an opportunity to make your views heard before the deals were done?

if you want a quiet beach, maybe you should be looking somewhere other than the middle of a large city

[BeachLover]

Cities are inherently noisy, I agree. That is why parks are created, as a refuge from noise and commercial activity. Most cities, ours included, have desgnated areas for industrial, retail, commercial, residential, and park areas. This is so that quiet exists in residential neighbourhoods, and if you want noise and excitement, you go to Granville or Robson Street, or the PNE etc. With all due respect, it is a ridiculous argument that we should allow any noisy commercial activity on our beaches, just because we live in a city and it is noisy anyway.

[Meowjin]

Cities are inherently noisy, I agree. That is why parks are created, as a refuge from noise and commercial activity. Most cities, ours included, have desgnated areas for industrial, retail, commercial, residential, and park areas. This is so that quiet exists in residential neighbourhoods, and if you want noise and excitement, you go to Granville or Robson Street, or the PNE etc. With all due respect, it is a ridiculous argument that we should allow any noisy commercial activity on our beaches, just because we live in a city and it is noisy anyway.

the beach is right int he heart of the city.

you = fail

[BeachLover]

Yeah, you'r eright, it is centrall - hey, why not put a Wal-Mart there too, and maybe a new casino?

[Graeme S]

Yeah, you'r eright, it is centrall - hey, why not put a Wal-Mart there too, and maybe a new casino?
People tend not to want to buy a bulk bag of serviettes or a new cutlery set while at the beach (though be careful about the casino crack). There are, however, lots of people who want to take a brief break from being out in the sun to do some dining. Yeah, true--everyone loves peace and quiet. But I don't think I can remember the last time I thought "Jesus christ, the sound of forks on plates is driving me fucking insane, why the hell won't they just shut up?!"

Certainly, a concession style eatery would be great. But I am probably not the only one who wonders why I pay $8 or more for a burger and fries that is smaller yet exactly the same as the one I can purchase at the costco concession. Yet there's no real place to sit and keep my food on a plate if it's windy, the lines are generally atrocious and the service/food is slow as hell.

I very much doubt that the concessions were providing this much revenue for the city. Admittedly, the bidding/acquisition process could have been more open. But then again, ask yourself this--how many non-Vancouverites go to Vancouver and will be appreciative of this? I live in Burnaby and would have no say about how this went, yet I have no problems with how it went. Long story short: progress is eternal and Vancouver is the new Aspen.

[goo3]

The other end of the beach should still be quiet, no?

[Meowjin]

i hate NIMBY'ists.

[pintoBC_3sgte]

Scratch that. Maria, yass, and ayane! All naked!!!!!!
Celica knows what I'm talking about! Hahaha
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Lol me? Haha so derrty Chandler .. But would make for better business :p
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[Tapioca]

The Watermark at Kits Beach has ruined the quietness of that beach not just directly in front of the restaurant, but off to the sides too. Instead of being able to hear the sound of the waves and the wind, you hear the clanking of dishes and cutlery, and the bustle of a commercial operation. If we want to go to a large restaurant, there are plenty of options on Cornwall or Yew Street. A small scale concession, like they had, is suitable for that beach.


Unless you happen to live in a house directly behind the restaurant, there are many places at the beach where it is still quiet.


I don;t remember any public enquiry, forum, or town hall meeting to discuss these proposals. The day I heard about Cactus at English Bay was the day before it went to vote. Why are we consulted when a condo is proposed, or a change of use for other buildings, and not something major like this? It seems it was all done in secret. I am a resident near Kits Beach and I didn;t hear a work about Watermark until it was too late.


Why should there be a town-hall meeting when there are no residents on the beach? You basically just answered your own question.

If there were town-hall meetings for every decision to be made, nothing would ever get done because there will always be someone (or a small minority) who will oppose any decision. In cases like these, I'm glad the Parks Board is run by a bunch of "wise bureaucrats." Have a little faith in the decision-makers once in a while.

[Soundy]

how many of you would go to this cactus club on December 11? or Jan 23 or Feb 5 or Nov 18?

location will only bring in seasonal sales. 8/10 will not want to sit near a beach on day that's snowing....

You think the current restaurants on beach ave, davie street get no business during the cold season? lol. Heck, there's even a gelato place right on beach ave that is open year round and there's no shortage of ppl inside.

Have we all forgotten that until just recently there was a Cactus Club right there as well, right on the corner of Denman and Davie (across from the Gelato place)? You think cold weather slowed THEIR business??

Personally, I'm looking forward to a Cactus on the beach... especially since I get to put in their security cameras ;)

[murd0c]

Another advantage of not having a concession stand is the garbage. Just think how careless people have been these days with all the garbage they leave behind. At least with the cactus club no garbage or not as much garbage will make it to the beach as with a concession stand.
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[nipples]

Fuck the food. Save the dried out burgers. Me don't want. Just gimme a milkshake made by Y&A lmao
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[pintoBC_3sgte]

Fuck the food. Save the dried out burgers. Me don't want. Just gimme a milkshake made by Y&A lmao
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hahaha ur obsessed wit those 2 man

[nipples]

Haven't you heard yet? 70% of canadians don't get enough milk!!!! It's a public service they're doing. Can feed all the kids in africa!
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[BeachLover]

OK, lots of reasonable comments, and different perspectives draw different conclusions. First, the Wal-Mart comment was an exaggeration, but I see we have a casino-lover here (for the record, I'm also against a mega-casino at Georgia and Beatty.
If you ever spent 2 or 3 hours in front of Waternark at Kits Beach, you would know what I mean. Restaurant noise isn't intolerable, like a jackhammer, but it is noticeable and annoying at a place that used to be quiet. You can't lie on the beach on one side due to the volleyball courts, and to the other side, the beach ends. That beach is, in effect, now commercial.
Most parks are quiet. They don't have businesses on them. They have very low-key concession stands for a drink and a snack. I'm not against Cactus Club. I just don't want it, or Earl's, or Joey's, or Watermark, building a 4,000 sq ft two storey structure on a public beach. There as so many locations for those restaurants that they don't need one on the beach.
I don't live where all you people live, or relax the same way you do, so we can't know how each other is affected. But I am wondering; if you lived on a quiet block full of houses, would you want a Cactus Club right next door to you? I'm sure some will say yes, but if you notice, moat residential zones have no commercial activity, except corner grocery stores, etc.
The City of Vancouver zoning was set up to have quiet zones, residential areas, industrial areas, entertainment districts, parks, etc. I think this should be continued, and areas like Stanley Park, English Bay, Kits, Jericho, Spanish Banks, etc., be left as parks. Goodness knows, it's not hard to find an Earl's,Cactus Club, Milestones, etc on Robson, Broadway, Granville, Beach Avenue, etc., if you want to.
If you let the camel's nose under the tent, so to speak, we are liable to have all kinds of excuses to put commercial enterprises in our parks, for the sake of money.
Thanks for all your comments. If there was a vote or a public process for this development, and enough of you out-voted me, so be it. But the fact is, that didn't happen. This was done behind closed doors and I sense there is more to this approval than we know about.

[Graeme S]

I live in a quiet residential zone, and I wish it were different than what it is. The zoning here restricts businesses off the hill--for people who do not own cars in my area, you either have to walk almost a kilometre up a hill, or wait for 30 minutes for a small shuttle bus that brings you up to the top (only from the West, mind you--if you work/shop on the east you've gotta hike your ass all the way over to the other side).

There once was a corner store a block and a half away--but they charged too much and had no business and ended up selling their house to someone who didn't want a corner store. When the new owners cut out the commercial aspect of their land, it was rezoned to pure residential. No more corner store anywhere near where I live.

A cactus right next to where I live? Might be a bit impractical. A generic restaurant or coffee shop? Hell yes. I would not complain at all if one opened up, and would be quite happy to walk down the block to patronize it. My neighbor would consistently play thumping bass until 3AM when I was in highschool. Cops did nothing. A restaurant would closer earlier and be less disruptive. During the day, I wouldn't notice any real major change at all, since I have several italian neighbors who can get quite rowdy during world cup season and have great summer barbecues.

If I had a cactus open next to me, I probably wouldn't go. I don't particularly find the food appealing, although the waitresses are. If I were hungry late at night and too lazy to make anything (like I am now), I may reconsider my statement though.


As far as the "casino loving", I personally have no problem with casinos, but do wish that there wer an ID requirement, and that those losing over a certain amount be given a 30-day cool-off period--I'm all for business, but I'm not blind to society's plights. I do think that the government has been nannying things a bit much, and I'm quite frankly glad to see the municipal governments lightening up the strict and rigid zoning laws a wee bit.

[hotjoint]

I'm all for cactus club. I barely ever go downtown but Cactus club always has hot chicks working so something to look at :)