[Harvey Specter]

By BILL POWELL / SHANGHAI Bill Powell / Shanghai – 50 mins ago
When Google finally ended the suspense, it did so by stating the obvious. "Figuring out how to make good on our promise to stop censoring search [in China]," wrote David Drummond, the company's chief legal officer on the company's blog last night, "has been hard." For more than two months, ever since its Jan. 12 announcement that it would soon stop censoring its search results in the country with the largest number of internet users in the world, the California giant was headed for a direct clash with the authorities in Beijing, who have been repeatedly unambiguous in their stance. Censorship is the law of the land in China, and Google had to abide by it or "suffer the consequences," as one official put it last week.


Google's decision is to route all of the traffic on its Chinese search engine, Google.cn, to its Hong Kong based site, Google.com.hk. The company has added simplified Chinese characters to the site (Hong Kong Chinese use traditional characters for reading and writing), and a color coded list of features (shopping, maps, music etc) which are still available, and all of which make it now look "a bit like an eye test," as Shen Liling, a young Shanghai netizen, says. (See pictures of China mourning the potential loss of Google.)


But the practical result was, for a few hours at least, search results were no longer censored. On Tuesday morning in China netizens could type in "Falun Gong," the banned religious cult, and what popped up was far different than what popped up just last night. (Among other things, the official Falun Gong website showed up in search results.) So after nearly four years of doing business in China, Google has lived up to its campaign promise. It is no longer censoring its search results for web surfers behind China's Great Firewall. But it took the Chinese government less than 24 hours to start censoring searches itself: Typing in "Falun Gong" from the mainland later in the day prompted only a "web page not available" response.


For a few hours, at least, the Hong Kong route was a relatively elegant solution to the dilemma in which the company found itself. Xinhua, a government-owned news service, quoted an unnamed official in Beijing's State Information Council calling the move, "totally wrong. [Google has] violated its written promise. We're uncompromisingly opposed to the politicization of commercial issues." (See pictures of life at the Googleplex.)


From Beijing's standpoint, at least, there's a lot of that going around at the moment. For the past two weeks China's been in a rhetorical firefight with the U.S. about the value of the renminbi versus the dollar. President Barack Obama called on Beijing to let the RMB more accurately reflect market fundamentals - most economists believe the RMB is undervalued relative to the dollar - because doing so would help boost U.S. exports to China. Premier Wen Jiabao said China had no intention of doing that anytime soon because so many of its exporters are barely profitable as it is. And in response to calls in the US Congress for tariffs on Chinese goods should RMB revaluation not occur, China's Minister of Commerce Chen Deming said bluntly told the Washington Post on Sunday that in the event of a trade war, the "American people and U.S. companies" would suffer more than China.


Just before Google moved its China site to Hong Kong - a switch that came in the dead of Monday night, China time - Beijing had given some indication that it understood the time was coming for some adult supervision, at least when it comes to the overall U.S.-China relationship. Wen met with a group of foreign businessmen in Beijing the same day. His tone, participants in the meeting say, was calm and relatively conciliatory. He told them China had no interest in "trade and currency wars," and pointed to a forthcoming meeting in Washington - the so-called bilateral Strategic and Economic Dialogue - as a moment both sides could use to bring it down a notch. "The dialogue in May will be very important," Wen said. "It's an opportunity to address the problems between the U.S. and China." As one participant said after the session, "There was no finger pointing or threats... He obviously understands very well the stakes involved, and that everyone needs to calm down a bit."


How calm Beijing will be when it comes to Google's latest move is still very much an open question. "We very much hope that the Chinese government respects our decision," Drummond said in his statement on Google's blog, "though we are well aware that it could at any time block access to our services." The odds are it will probably come to that; and even if for some reason the authorities allow Google.cn to operate via Hong Kong, e-commerce executives in China who advertised on the search engine appear glum. One noted that Drummond's own statement acknowledges that the complicated nature of the switch means a slowdown in service is possible, and "some products [might be] temporarily inaccessible as we switch everything over." That, this Chinese executive said, "is the best case scenario. The worst is that they are completely blocked in China at some point. So there's no good scenario here from our standpoint." (See pictures of the making of modern China.)


Nor, frankly, does there appear to be one for Google. Financial analysts all note that the revenue the company makes in China amounts to just 1 or 2% of its global revenue. So for now, from a strict bottom line standpoint, the China contretemps is immaterial. But they also note, as Bank of America/Merrill Lynch analyst Justin Post wrote, that in the longer term, the decision to effectively exit the market with the most internet users on the planet "doesn't seem to make a lot of business sense."


Last month, Google co-founder Sergey Brin told a technology conference in California that he still wanted "to work within the Chinese system and provide more and better information." At heart, he added, he's "an optimist." Moving his Chinese search engine to Hong Kong is Brin's shot at trying to live up to those words. In the same meeting, however, he acknowledged that "a lot of people think I'm naÏve." The Chinese government, it s safe to say, will now be the judge of that.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100323/wl_time/08599197439200
.

[SkinnyPupp]

They're just going to block google.com.hk

I saw some footage of people in China leaving flowers at Google's front door, thanking them for standing up for their rights. I thought that was pretty cool, and hopefully sparks a trend with the more truly educated people in that country.

[impactX]

And according to the security of Tsinghua Science Park where the Google HQ is located, the act of leaving flowers at Google's front door is illegal without the authorization from the respective authority.

[LiquidTurbo]

And according to the security of Tsinghua Science Park where the Google HQ is located, the act of leaving flowers at Google's front door is illegal without the authorization from the respective authority.

Man. You serious? Anyway. Interesting to see how a COMPANY is playing a role in a COUNTRY's politics.

[SkinnyPupp]

And according to the security of Tsinghua Science Park where the Google HQ is located, the act of leaving flowers at Google's front door is illegal without the authorization from the respective authority.
<3 China

[SkinnyPupp]

Toldjaso (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/technology/24google.html?hp)

In addition, they are having China Mobile and China Unicom cancel their deals with Google, removing them from their start pages, and removing Android phones.

Someone said they are surprised to see companies taking part in politics.. Well to me, that is not shocking. Companies are just People. What is really revolting is when politics interfere with the companies, and control how they run.

[Vansterdam]

they prob gonna block alot of shit still

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

communist country.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[TOPEC]

whats going to happen to all the people that worked for/in google china?
i think they should be fearing for their lives and should flee the country right about... now.

[Qmx323]

Google is gonna fucking run the world in 30 years

[shenmecar]

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2010/3/10/47%20That%20is%20One%20Slappy%20Face.jpg

Harro? Gooogoal? Fuk u!

[Gt-R R34]

^ LOL

How big is Google in India? I can see them attacking or positioning themselves in markets that are up and coming as well but not necessarily in the China realm of influence.

[q0192837465]

Freedom isnt free. Props to Google for having a spine.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Man. You serious? Anyway. Interesting to see how a COMPANY is playing a role in a COUNTRY's politics.

dude, corporations, mega corporations... like those u see in distant futures, they'll be running everything.

corporations run the country, government tries to regulate it haha

[m4k4v4li]

Toldjaso (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/technology/24google.html?hp)
What is really revolting is when politics interfere with the companies, and control how they run.

except politics ALWAYS interfere with how companies are run? lol @ you if you think this move by google is ANY different. it makes 0 business sense. what does google have to gain from it? you seem naive to think a force as large as google pulls a stunt like this merely to look righteous in the public eye. its far beyond that... dig deeper

[fetched]

Baidu's stock went up 50% since google's announcement to pull out of China.
Damn.............................................. ............................
Google is just pulling the righteous card just like what US does to "rogue" countries. In the end, China doesn't give a shit about what google thinks or does.
It might seem like a good idea now, but in 2-3 years investors will realize what google did was one of the dumbest choices ever, most probably already think that way.
Why is an American Company interfering with China's politics? The US didn't even let arabs buy a PORT.

[BaoXu]

the majority of chinese don't even care about being censored, well except for falun gong practioners and tibetan seperatists.

[SkinnyPupp]

except politics ALWAYS interfere with how companies are run? lol @ you if you think this move by google is ANY different. it makes 0 business sense. what does google have to gain from it? you seem naive to think a force as large as google pulls a stunt like this merely to look righteous in the public eye. its far beyond that... dig deeper
http://carlrules.com/images/wut.jpg

[wouwou]

^ LOL

How big is Google in India? I can see them attacking or positioning themselves in markets that are up and coming as well but not necessarily in the China realm of influence.

Google has 88% of the search engine share in India.

38% and 8% in Japan and Korea respectively.

Google had 36% in China. Now it's probably .36% with the blocking.

Baidu went up 5% yesterday, over $600 lol

[wouwou]

except politics ALWAYS interfere with how companies are run? lol @ you if you think this move by google is ANY different. it makes 0 business sense. what does google have to gain from it? you seem naive to think a force as large as google pulls a stunt like this merely to look righteous in the public eye. its far beyond that... dig deeper

actually GOOG wasnt even that profitable in China yet. it's still in a startup phrase in the Chinese market.

[J____]

They're just going to block google.com.hk

I saw some footage of people in China leaving flowers at Google's front door, thanking them for standing up for their rights. I thought that was pretty cool, and hopefully sparks a trend with the more truly educated people in that country.

no matter how educated the general public is, china wont back down on it's laws. Its like no matter how many dope heads are in BC, the government wont legalize marijuana.

[J____]

In the end, China doesn't give a shit about what google thinks or does.
It might seem like a good idea now, but in 2-3 years investors will realize what google did was one of the dumbest choices ever, most probably already think that way.


Exactly, China was an opportunity for Google, not the other way around. Regardless, Googles got their roles mixed up. Oh well, they'll still take over the world, just not China

[m4k4v4li]

google doesnt like how china gets to monitor and control their shit. so they were like yo don't do that you evil commies. and the evil commies were like fuck u we do what we want.

[InvisibleSoul]

China has already started blocking searches on google.com.hk

[TOPEC]

China has already started blocking searches on google.com.hk

u sure?
both falun gong and 64 still works.

[InvisibleSoul]

u sure?
both falun gong and 64 still works.
I think they block it from the their side, so if you're searching from China on google.hk, you'll get filtered results or failed searches.

If you're searching on google.hk from Canada, you'll get unfiltered results.

[skyxx]

China doesn't give two shits about Google. It's really Google's lost on the Chinese market. That's it!

[rageguy]

you can go to the .hk google with no problems. but if you are located in china, you won't be able to search properly due to the great firewall.

[SkinnyPupp]

the majority of chinese don't even care about being censored, well except for falun gong practioners and tibetan seperatists.
Wait, are you saying that is okay?

[MelonBoy]

China doesn't give two shits about Google. It's really Google's lost on the Chinese market. That's it!

Unless this is a whole marketing scheme :O
Think about.. google gets the image of trying to help the peoples right in china...
People like us in Canada/US/Other countries... see this and may overall have a better image of the company..

Either way this goes.. i think google is winning a bit..

[SkinnyPupp]

Dell will be the next one to leave China, wait and see.

[fetched]

Maybe Microsoft can leave with Dell.
Last year was the banks, this year the tech companies.
I actually hope what your saying is right, HP Lenovo stocks are gonna be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

[asian_XL]

^ Microsoft can leave...that doesn't stop the pirating anyway.
Dell can leave as well, two weeks later China will have a new company called "Nell" building computers.

stupid Americans...you want to do business in people's country, follow their fucking rules.

[SkinnyPupp]

People who think this is an "American vs whatever country" issue is... I don't even know how else to respond.

Just bury your head in your ass, and keep it there please.

[Mancini]

Freedom isnt free. Props to Google for having a spine.

QFT.

[!LittleDragon]

I wonder what the Aussies and Germans block with their firewalls...

[BaoXu]

The PRC censoring information is just like mods on RS deleting threads,closing threads, and/or banning users because they are too controversial and they don't support their agenda.

What's the difference?

[AE98]

alot of ppl probably dont know that the US, Europe and Australia censors their internet too..

China censors information contain pornography and violent on the internet..I dont see whats wrong in that. Seeing how fucked up american kids are growing up, I think China has done good.

[Manic!]

^ Microsoft can leave...that doesn't stop the pirating anyway.
Dell can leave as well, two weeks later China will have a new company called "Nell" building computers.

stupid Americans...you want to do business in people's country, follow their fucking rules.
Ya but who is going to buy a Nell computer in North America and Europe.

Rumors about Dell leaving China: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17964

[AE98]

Ya but who is going to buy a Nell computer in North America and Europe.

Rumors about Dell leaving China: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17964

The computer's brand doesnt really matter..after all they are mostly manufacured by a few Taiwanese companies with factories in China...after all, its all the same if you bought from Asus, Acer, Sony, or HP, they are all made by Honhai and Quanta of Taiwan anyways.

[MarkyMark]

Good on them, fuck China
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[twitchyzero]

alot of ppl probably dont know that the US, Europe and Australia censors their internet too..

China censors information contain pornography and violent on the internet..I dont see whats wrong in that. Seeing how fucked up american kids are growing up, I think China has done good.

of course there's is censorship to an extent..but the degree is nothing comparable to what china's doing

pornography and violence..that's a parents job not the governments.

edit: and please...there are fucked up younger generations regardless of culture. You get snobby mainlander kids who are neglected from their parents and the only form of love or attention comes in cash allowance

[SkinnyPupp]

alot of ppl probably dont know that the US, Europe and Australia censors their internet too..

China censors information contain pornography and violent on the internet..I dont see whats wrong in that. Seeing how fucked up american kids are growing up, I think China has done good.
Why don't you move there then, you dumb cunt?

Then you can be around the WONDERFUL China kids, who grow up in their beautiful protected environment to become perfect citizens.

Just don't wallhack on them or you'll end up like this guy (http://kotaku.com/5499061/accused-game-cheater-gets-knife-through-head-and-survives)

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/03/500x_knife.jpg

[AE98]

Why don't you move there then, you dumb cunt?

Then you can be around the WONDERFUL China kids, who grow up in their beautiful protected environment to become perfect citizens.

[/IMG]


so you are making personal insults now? just because others have a different opinion doesnt make it right to insult them. You are worse than censorship...you just a puny pile of shit who can only hide like a coward behind your computer desk..try getting an education, dont waste your parents money and our resources, better yet, move to europe since you hate mainlanders so much. too many of them here for you. Or even paint yourself white since you hate your heritage so much. worthless shit

[CorneringArtist]

^:Popcorn:

Ohh, shit.....can't wait to see the end result of this...

[SkinnyPupp]

I'll I'm going to do is laugh and watch him fail, as usual :lol

Although I may follow his advice and paint myself white

And for the record, I don't hate mainlanders or have anything against the people of China. It's the country that is fucked, and the people are getting fucked. It's not their fault. I also hate religion, but many of my friends are religious. I don't hate them, and as long as they don't try to push their shit on me, I don't care that they're religious.

[AE98]

I'll I'm going to do is laugh and watch him fail, as usual :lol

Although I may follow his advice and paint myself white

try say something intelligent beside your usual bs and giving fails, its getting lame

[SkinnyPupp]

I ran out of fails, so I had to thank you. Damn that brings your total to 6 thanks! You are pretty popular around here :)

[AE98]

so we can finally be friends now?

[BaoXu]

Skinnypupp you still haven't answered me about RS mods deleting threads, closing threads and banning people.

Isn't that censorship too?

[SkinnyPupp]

Yup, it is. Good thing this is an internet message board and not a country, huh?

[Lomac]

Skinnypupp you still haven't answered me about RS mods deleting threads, closing threads and banning people.

Isn't that censorship too?

There's a slight difference between running a private website that's dependant on sponsors to stay alive and a country that censors information that may cause their downfall.

We have limited restriction on various companies because they've spammed. If we allowed everyone to spam their wares/companies, the companies that advertise with us would see no need to pay. No payment = No Revscene.

We rarely delete or close threads. The only ones that tend to get closed are those that ask the same questions week-in and week-out, or those that have run their course. If it gets out of hand, it gets dumped into Fight Club if its deemed suitable. If not, there's no point in letting a bitchfest of a thread continue on in the more "civilized" sections of Revscene.

We don't censor competing online automotive forums. In fact, we have stickies listing every site we can think of. Want more information on a car? Please visit a different site! We embrace the community between car clubs. We don't ban other sites because we think that they threaten Revscene's existence. (And here is where you can draw a parallel between this and a country censoring information about things they feel is a "security threat.)

Oh, and people get banned for being either spammers or repeated shit disturbers. And even in the case of the latter, it's usually only a temporary week-long ban. Without even thinking, I can list off a dozen other forums online that will perma-ban someone for even saying "Hi" the wrong way.

That said, if someone is unhappy with the site, they're welcome to never log back in again. We didn't force them to come to us, and we wont force them away.

[MarkyMark]

And that ladies and gentleman, is why Revscene is not like China...if you REALLY needed an explanation.

[Lomac]

Or even paint yourself white since you hate your heritage so much. worthless shit

Half my relatives were Nazi's during WW2. Does that mean I shouldn't hate them for what they did in the war? My Opa saved General Rommel a couple times while in Africa while being one of the doctors on his personal staff. Should I hate him for doing that?

You can hate a country's government, policies put in place, laws, etc., etc., but that doesn't mean that you hate the country or the heritage... I hate the Nazi regime, but I still love Germany as a country.

[Manic!]

The computer's brand doesnt really matter..after all they are mostly manufacured by a few Taiwanese companies with factories in China...after all, its all the same if you bought from Asus, Acer, Sony, or HP, they are all made by Honhai and Quanta of Taiwan anyways.

It does when you talk about things like customer support. Dell has spent a lot of money making a name for themselves. Also anyone can build a compter but the hard part is finding out what a customer wants.

[m4k4v4li]

Half my relatives were Nazi's during WW2. Does that mean I shouldn't hate them for what they did in the war? My Opa saved General Rommel a couple times while in Africa while being one of the doctors on his personal staff. Should I hate him for doing that?

You can hate a country's government, policies put in place, laws, etc., etc., but that doesn't mean that you hate the country or the heritage... I hate the Nazi regime, but I still love Germany as a country.

u mean u love present day germany. would u say u love nazi germany if u lived in the times?

we're talking about modern day china. and the majority of modern day chinese are confident china acts in the interests of the country as a whole. the rest of the world needs to realize china doesn't really give a flying fuck what they think and will continue to do w.e the fuck it pleases. see china has a history of submitting to foreign rule and learned to never repeat that mistake.

[m4k4v4li]

If it gets out of hand, it gets dumped into Fight Club if its deemed suitable. If not, there's no point in letting a bitchfest of a thread continue on in the more "civilized" sections of Revscene.
.

weird. i made a thread in FC before calling out skinnypup and he took it down in ten minutes lol

[Manic!]

u mean u love present day germany. would u say u love nazi germany if u lived in the times?

we're talking about modern day china. and the majority of modern day chinese are confident china acts in the interests of the country as a whole. the rest of the world needs to realize china doesn't really give a flying fuck what they think and will continue to do w.e the fuck it pleases. see china has a history of submitting to foreign rule and learned to never repeat that mistake.

The only reason foreign companies are in China is because the Chinese are willing to work for peanuts and do what ever they are told.

[fetched]

of course there's is censorship to an extent..but the degree is nothing comparable to what china's doing

pornography and violence..that's a parents job not the governments.

edit: and please...there are fucked up younger generations regardless of culture. You get snobby mainlander kids who are neglected from their parents and the only form of love or attention comes in cash allowance

Someone's mad. :haha: Sending their kids abroad does not equal neglect.
I agree some kids are just here to fuck around with their parent's money, but the other half who also drive nice cars also take education seriously. Doesn't matter mainlander, honger, white, persian, or any nationality/race, your always gonna get snobs.
btw, why is it everytime i see you post, it has to do with hating on rich mainlanders? was the bus driver that hit you mainlander too?

[Ronin]

China is one of the most fucked up, backward places in the world. Everyone is pissed at places like Iran, North Korea, etc but China is just as bad when it comes to human rights, censorship and other garbage that wouldn't fly in a real country that people actually want to live in. That is...unless you're rich and then you can just do whatever the fuck you want.

Google, Dell, and all the other companies that do business in the free world need to pull the fuck out of there. Yes...everything is made in China but shit, take your business to India or whatever instead. Just as cheap and the money isn't funding goddamn communism. Let's see how well they'll do with only their crappy knockoff versions of things.

[!SG]

china policy, if you want ur business to exist and sell to chinese ppl in china, you need to have a base of operations in china.

a country of what, 1.xxx billion ppl is a huge gold mine of consumers. even the peasant farmer strives to do better and own some item of luxury.

china has surpassed the US as the largest consumer of oil. that huge market is what every company is trying to tap, hence why some are willing to bend over backwards just to have access.

The only reason foreign companies are in China is because the Chinese are willing to work for peanuts and do what ever they are told.

[ziggyx]

china has surpassed the US as the largest consumer of oil. that huge market is what every company is trying to tap, hence why some are willing to bend over backwards just to have access.

sun tzu's art of war? lol I'm just saying..

[twitchyzero]

Someone's mad. :haha: Sending their kids abroad does not equal neglect.
I agree some kids are just here to fuck around with their parent's money, but the other half who also drive nice cars also take education seriously. Doesn't matter mainlander, honger, white, persian, or any nationality/race, your always gonna get snobs.
btw, why is it everytime i see you post, it has to do with hating on rich mainlanders? was the bus driver that hit you mainlander too?
that's what i said. I just like to use mainlanders as my examples ;)
lolol no bus driver wasn't mainlander..but yes i'm jealous i can't drive a gallardo to school and have a materialistic gf

[AE98]

And that ladies and gentleman, is why Revscene is not like China...if you REALLY needed an explanation.

I hope you are being sarcastic..I have been working in China for several years..and their internet is totally free, unless you are on the net trying to organize an unauthorized parade or a march, or you are posting pornography or graphic stuff, then your post will be deleted..other times you are totally free of what you say and what you post.

China is rapidly changing...nowadays you can even organize protests in front of the government building. The only taboo right now, is still if you are supporting tibet seperatists or trying to over throw the government, which of course most of the citizens don't even give a shit about.

[BaoXu]

Oh, and people get banned for being either spammers or repeated shit disturbers.

That said, if someone is unhappy with the site, they're welcome to never log back in again. We didn't force them to come to us, and we wont force them away.

In China the shit starters are Falun Gong practioners, the Tibetan separatists and Uyghur separatists. For instance, the Dalai Lama was a spammer and shit disturber so guess what? He's permanently banned from China.

That being said, if someone is unhappy with how things are in China, they're welcome to leave and never come back again. But guess what? Some of them actually leave the country and DO come back.

[Manic!]

In China the shit starters are Falun Gong practioners, the Tibetan separatists and Uyghur separatists. For instance, the Dalai Lama was a spammer and shit disturber so guess what? He's permanently banned from China.


So who's left.

[jeff_alexander]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OM4Ezud-yOY/SwW2EToBwCI/AAAAAAAAAT4/bHYeKJaDRys/s1600/alg_barack-obama_hu-jintao.jpg

Problem Solved