[Hide625]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/hide625/accident.jpg

I was heading southbound on the street heading home w/ my gf on the leftlane as in pic. The other driver came out of a complex (not 3/4-way stop or intersection) trying to make a left turn to go northbound. He either didn't check or didn't see me coming & I hit him. I did brake if that makes any difference. Anyways ICBC says I'm @ 25% faul since there were cars in the right-lane & he was inching in already. But I don't feel I should stop to let him thru if my lane has no traffic. I would find it more dangerous if I just brake & let him thru as I might get rear-ended. I feel like I'm being penalized 25% for being @ the wrong place @ the wrong time.

What do you guys think? I can't find anything about actual law/rule saying if there's traffic in the right-lane & that I'm suppose to stop for him. If there is I guess I'll have to accept it.

[hk20000]

which part of the car did you hit him? If it's in the rear half you are kind of responsible too he has to be in front of you for some time by then.

[Hide625]

I hit him driver-side square on. I hit the driver & passenger door. Damage to my car was starting from passenger-side front bumper up to around where my driver-side head-lights starts.

[illicitstylz]

I always thought that the stream of main traffic always has right of way, so the guy turning out of the complex has to yield until safe to turn.

In this incident, it wasn't safe to turn so he should be at fault 100%?

[flagella]

I acted as a witness to a similar situation before. ICBC called me and specifically asked me if the person in the right lane already stopped and let the car out of the complex coming out or not. I think what they are saying is, if the car in the right lane has already stopped and let the other car come out, then you should've paid attention to it and let it out as well.

[shenmecar]

I acted as a witness to a similar situation before. ICBC called me and specifically asked me if the person in the right lane already stopped and let the car out of the complex coming out or not. I think what they are saying is, if the car in the right lane has already stopped and let the other car come out, then you should've paid attention to it and let it out as well.

That is a good point.

[boatcaptain]

maybe you should talk to a lawyer

[SuperSlowSS]

square on?? you are lucky you are not 100% at fault.

[icemiko]

I acted as a witness to a similar situation before. ICBC called me and specifically asked me if the person in the right lane already stopped and let the car out of the complex coming out or not. I think what they are saying is, if the car in the right lane has already stopped and let the other car come out, then you should've paid attention to it and let it out as well.
Good point but wouldn't he still have the right of way and the car should have made sure that he was going to stop being going?

[freakshow]

I was always under the impression that you would have the right of way since you're going straight, and on a main road, and the other guy is just turning out of a driveway.

[Leopold Stotch]

that's stupid if they're trying to say you're 25% at fault



but if you are 25% your ins doesn't get dinged does it?

[TOPEC]

another situation similar to urs
car A was traveling south on grandville street on the right curb lane, there was traffic so the left and middle lane stopped before the intersection, car B was taking a left from northbound grandville street onto 49th ave. car A was approaching the intersection and car B took a left out of no where. car A was 100% at fault.

this is pretty BS as car A(and u) has the right of way, yet ur at fault because some douch decides to pull a dangerous move. and car B should be at fault because im sure he did not have a clear view so it was unsafe to make the turn.

[TOPEC]

that's stupid if they're trying to say you're 25% at fault



but if you are 25% your ins doesn't get dinged does it?

25% fault doesnt affect insurance premiums, but still, ur getting dinged for doing the right thing.

[flagella]

Good point but wouldn't he still have the right of way and the car should have made sure that he was going to stop being going?

That's what I think so too. Sometimes it seems the guidelines they follow are quite arbitrary.

[freakshow]

If you're going north through an intersection, and you hit someone making left turn from a southbound lane, I think they would be 100% at fault.. how is this any different?

[zulutango]

Emerging from alleys
176 (1) The driver of a vehicle in a business or residence district and emerging from an alley, driveway, building or private road must stop the vehicle immediately before driving onto the sidewalk or the sidewalk area extending across an alleyway or private driveway, and must yield the right of way to a pedestrian on the sidewalk or sidewalk area.

(2) The driver of a vehicle about to enter or cross a highway from an alley, lane, driveway, building or private road must yield the right of way to traffic approaching on the highway so closely that it constitutes an immediate hazard.


I would be talking to a lawyer and seeing what he had to say about this scetion of the MV Act.

[jpark]

yea i say there trying to 'ding' it down, i dont see any way that you get 25%

[RollingStone]

I don't see how you could be responsible in anyway. You have the right of way.

[fishing666]

you could fight it out and win if you want to. but generally if you see the guy on ur right slowing and stopping, you should be aware of what's going to cross. I've almost seen a fatal accident because this.

a pedestrian crossing the street; a big truck stops but a benz on the right did not see the pedestrian crossing and zipped through crosswalk and almost hit pedestrian

in the end, you should decide if you want to be at fault or not. forget about morals and do what's right :)

[godwin]

I am curious what is the function of the lawyer besides pointing out the finer details of MV Act?

Since the process is not a court of law, the lawyer can't advocate for the OP?

To the OP, it might help if you draw your map in a more easy to read manner eg N pointing at the right direction, and fits your description. More often than not, the manner you present information really affects the outcome.

There is also an arbitration process if you object to the result?


I would be talking to a lawyer and seeing what he had to say about this scetion of the MV Act.

[tool001]

whatever happened to pull out or turn when its safe to do so.... if they are cars on the road . traveling (not crawling) how can it be safe for the other guy to pull out of complex to make a left turn.

[freakshow]

I'm obviously no lawyer, but I don't see what finer details there are to the MVA. It states that the driver leaving the alleyway must yield because the crossing highway has right of way; unless there is another portion in the MVA that states that a driver travelling on a highway must yield to a car coming out of an alley.. which would make no sense at all.

[SpuGen]

Was there a Double Solid Yellow Line?

If there was, I don't think he's allowed to cross and make a left.

[Hide625]

I always thought that the stream of main traffic always has right of way, so the guy turning out of the complex has to yield until safe to turn.

In this incident, it wasn't safe to turn so he should be at fault 100%?

That was my understanding as well.

I acted as a witness to a similar situation before. ICBC called me and specifically asked me if the person in the right lane already stopped and let the car out of the complex coming out or not. I think what they are saying is, if the car in the right lane has already stopped and let the other car come out, then you should've paid attention to it and let it out as well.

I'd agree if there were traffic in my lane (left-lane) as well. But I don't find it safe for me to stop in the middle of the street w/ no traffic in my lane & endanger myself & my gf being rear-ended.

maybe you should talk to a lawyer

I'm considering it. I'm not sure if being @ 25% fault is going to affect me in any sense other than having to pay 25% of my $300 deductible. Can the other guy sue me somehow & me accepting 25% fault be disadvantage compared to 0% fault?

that's stupid if they're trying to say you're 25% at fault



but if you are 25% your ins doesn't get dinged does it?

No, they said my premiums will not be affected. I'm responsible for 25% ($75) of my $300 deductible.

Emerging from alleys
176 (1) The driver of a vehicle in a business or residence district and emerging from an alley, driveway, building or private road must stop the vehicle immediately before driving onto the sidewalk or the sidewalk area extending across an alleyway or private driveway, and must yield the right of way to a pedestrian on the sidewalk or sidewalk area.

(2) The driver of a vehicle about to enter or cross a highway from an alley, lane, driveway, building or private road must yield the right of way to traffic approaching on the highway so closely that it constitutes an immediate hazard.


I would be talking to a lawyer and seeing what he had to say about this scetion of the MV Act.

Wow thanks, you wouldn't happen to have a direct link of that would you?

you could fight it out and win if you want to. but generally if you see the guy on ur right slowing and stopping, you should be aware of what's going to cross. I've almost seen a fatal accident because this.[QUOTE]

Yes it could have been avoided perhaps if I paid attention & scanned the roads. But to me it's pointing the finger in the wrong direction. It all originated w/ the driver who didn't yield or was careless coming out of the complex.

[QUOTE=godwin;6888348]I am curious what is the function of the lawyer besides pointing out the finer details of MV Act?

Since the process is not a court of law, the lawyer can't advocate for the OP?

To the OP, it might help if you draw your map in a more easy to read manner eg N pointing at the right direction, and fits your description. More often than not, the manner you present information really affects the outcome.

There is also an arbitration process if you object to the result?

Sorry I just drew it quickly before work from my perspective. But that's what I drew to ICBC.

Was there a Double Solid Yellow Line?

If there was, I don't think he's allowed to cross and make a left.

I don't know, if it makes a difference this occuered on Hazelbridge Way in Richmond, I was coming back from Aberdeen heading southband towards Lansdowne area where I live.

Thank you everyone for your input.

[CRS]

I don't know, if it makes a difference this occuered on Hazelbridge Way in Richmond, I was coming back from Aberdeen heading southband towards Lansdowne area where I live.

Thank you everyone for your input.

Well, if it was a double yellow, the left turn would be illegal. This will help your case. Go check it out on googlemaps and report back with the exact location.

[fliptuner]

Hazelbridge = single yellow

[impactX]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/hide625/accident.jpg

I was heading southbound on the street heading home w/ my gf on the leftlane as in pic. The other driver came out of a complex (not 3/4-way stop or intersection) trying to make a left turn to go northbound. He either didn't check or didn't see me coming & I hit him. I did brake if that makes any difference. Anyways ICBC says I'm @ 25% faul since there were cars in the right-lane & he was inching in already. But I don't feel I should stop to let him thru if my lane has no traffic. I would find it more dangerous if I just brake & let him thru as I might get rear-ended. I feel like I'm being penalized 25% for being @ the wrong place @ the wrong time.

What do you guys think? I can't find anything about actual law/rule saying if there's traffic in the right-lane & that I'm suppose to stop for him. If there is I guess I'll have to accept it.

The statement to use in this case would be "I've exhausted all options to stop my car in time in order to not result in a collision with the other party and other motor vehicles behind me; but despite my effort, the other party crashed into me because he/she failed to yield to the traffic on the highway (including me) who had the right of way which is a violation of section 176 of the Motor Vehicle Act."

If you actually told ICBC, "I don't feel like I should stop," ICBC would think that you hesitated in braking just because you had the right of way.

[johny]

if he is inching through, and you hit the driver / pass door, then you must have seen his front end long before you hit him....

you probably saw his front end in lots of time but failed to make any attemps to stop untill the last sec...

[Hide625]

Well, I never gave the a statement to them claiming "I don't feel like I should stop". The way ICBC put it they made me understand that I should have stopped & let him thru. When they advised me that I was going to be 25% fault I asked for their rational behind the decision. They said b/c he was already inching in on the right lane I should have proceeded w/ caution. But if the guy didn't see me, or failed to check for traffic, & came out I can't stop the car to a dead-stop. I braked & did what I could to have prevented the accident. That's what I told ICBC.

[Hide625]

if he is inching through, and you hit the driver / pass door, then you must have seen his front end long before you hit him....

you probably saw his front end in lots of time but failed to make any attemps to stop untill the last sec...

No I never saw his front-end. Not @ least in the left-lane I was travelling on. He honestly came out pretty quickly w/ maybe 1.5 car lengths. In all honesty, put in my situation I don't think anyone could have stopped in time to avoid collision.

That make no sense. Why would I choose to stop until the last sec? Have I seen his car in my lane w/ ample distance/time I would have stopped. If I had a choice I wish I was never in the accident so I can go on w/ my life as it was instead of taking time out of my life dealing w/ this whole ordeal.

[impactX]

Was he really "inching" or was he coming out quickly to beat the traffic? I fail to see how anyone could inch past the right lane.

If he came out quickly, then you just defeated ICBC's argument. But yeah, best to fight it with a lawyer. Never know when ICBC is going to change their policy regarding people who have been involved in 25% fault accidents in the past not having to pay a premium.

[underscore]

I don't see how this could be anything other than 100% the other guys fault. Anyone making a left like this should wait until either there's no traffic coming at you, or you have a car in each lane that you are crossing stopped for you (or at least obviously on their way to stopping).

[falcon]

THis exact situation happened to my dad years ago. He is still battling in court for a proper payout. His arm was permanently damaged and he only had about 10% movement. He was deemed 100% not at fault. It's the driver turning who was labelled at fault.

[underscore]

^ I'm not sure how it works in Canada but maybe if the OP can reference your dads case it might help.

[ivanz]

I think they got you on these:

Yielding right of way on left turn

174 When a vehicle is in an intersection and its driver intends to turn left, the driver must yield the right of way to traffic approaching from the opposite direction that is in the intersection or so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but having yielded and given a signal as required by sections 171 and 172, the driver may turn the vehicle to the left, and traffic approaching the intersection from the opposite direction must yield the right of way to the vehicle making the left turn.

179(3) If a vehicle is slowing down or stopped at a crosswalk or at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the highway, the driver of a vehicle approaching from the rear must not overtake and pass the vehicle that is slowing down or stopped.

Section 171, and 172 involve giving turn signals and don't affect the meaning. Remember that "highway" means any legal street.

What you can argue is what constitutes an immediate hazard...but they can still argue there may have been a pedestrian which was in front of the stopped car which you didn't see. That leaves you to argue that you though the car was parked and didn't see the other car at all as it shot out from there.
I doubt you can do that though...25% is being generous if there was a witness for the other driver.

So you are lucky it was only 25%...you could have been more responsible.

[underscore]

fail, because he was not at an intersection.

[ivanz]

fail, because he was not at an intersection.


How about you getting mass failed for not understand what an intersection is? An intersection is where two roads join. What you think is an intersection is called a 4 way intersection. This was a 3 way intersection...FAIL. You are right about the first one not applying though, I didn't understand his diagram....still partly responsible though.

[underscore]

Nice try buddy, but double fail because, as stated in the OP, the guy was coming out of a complex, not off a road.

I was heading southbound on the street heading home w/ my gf on the leftlane as in pic. The other driver came out of a complex (not 3/4-way stop or intersection) trying to make a left turn to go northbound. He either didn't check or didn't see me coming & I hit him.

[ivanz]

Nice try buddy, but double fail because, as stated in the OP, the guy was coming out of a complex, not off a road.

Double fail for you again:

"highway" includes

(a) every highway within the meaning of the Transportation Act,

(b) every road, street, lane or right of way designed or intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles, and

(c) every private place or passageway to which the public, for the purpose of the parking or servicing of vehicles, has access or is invited,

but does not include an industrial road;

[underscore]

the public is not invited to come park in a housing/apartment complex. unless you are a guest or resident they don't want you to park there, and can tow you.

[ivanz]

the public is not invited to come park in a housing/apartment complex. unless you are a guest or resident they don't want you to park there, and can tow you.

So in other words you don't want to admit you are not familiar with the definition of an intersection or a highway? I guess a "private place" (see above) is public but a housing complex drive is private? Give me a break...
I was man enough to admit I made a mistake about Section 174. Still at fault for 179(3)...so 25% is more than fair.

[underscore]

179(3) refers to a pedestrian crossing at an intersection or crosswalk...the op hit a car...

[jlenko]

179(3) refers to a pedestrian crossing at an intersection or crosswalk...the op hit a car...

:haha:

Fail for not knowing the difference between a pedestrian and a car
:haha::haha::haha:

[Hide625]

The last few posts actually made me laugh on otherwise a depressing situation :lol

[13spoons]

i had some one turn left on me and icbc put it 50/50
i said noway and they changed it 100 to him

[RiceIntegraRS]

Hide625, u dont even really need a lawyer. Next time you talk to them say "well ive talked to a lawyer and he said..........." I used that line to bump up my ICBC settlement and it worked.

Anyways every1 has given you alot of good advice, but to me it comes down to the fact your going straight and hes coming out of a sidestreet/privatestreet turning left. Hell if he was making a right turn and got rear ended, it would of been his fault. He was the one that proceeded through without care. It isnt your job to full on brake at everysingle sidestreet you see to your side. And from your picture it looks like cars were even stopped past that sidestreet, which leads me to believe that traffic was stopped for a Light ahead not for that car so theres no way u would of known that traffic was stopping for him.

Only way ICBC seeing you being 25% at fault is if he was already in your lane for awhile, and you just hit him without trying to stop. But that would mean either 2 things, You were speeding and couldnt slow down in time to stop(they cant prove this unless a cop saw u speed) or You just decided to hit him cause you didnt care. Both options dont make no sense so obviously your not at fault for this at all

[UFO]

Interesting situation, I would have give 100% fault to the other guy too. I think ICBC is trying to pin you on not being prudent/careful enough about your surroundings to see him 'inching' into your path, which they MAY have a case since you hit him square on the side and not his front. He may have pulled through the curb lane quite fast though, these things are difficult to recall when you are actually in the accident.

If they are saying you should have slowed down because the curb lane car slowed down or stopped, you can also say that you don't know whether the car in the curb lane was trying to turn right to enter that complex. With the number of cars that turn or change lanes without signalling, you have a valid argument there. If the curb lane car was slowing down, it really shouldn't be up to you to figure out whether he's actually trying to stop or if he's only trying to make a right turn.

It sounds like you did what you could to avoid the accident and it sucks you may have to shoulder some of this for the other driver's careless actions. They should also ding the curb lane driver for 25% for slowing his flow of traffic down and risking a rearender to himself to let this guy 'inch out' and cause this accident, makes about as much sense to me.

[impactY]

ivan needs to be banned

[PDA_86]

I think one of the possible reasons why ICBC left you with 25% is because if you were not at fault, you could've also claimed for injury for this and that, resulting more money claimed back for you.

I have a uncle that had a similar situation and he kinda faked injury with his family and they paid him $10,000+. There's probably too many people doing that nowadays and so that's why ICBC is trying to figure out ways to prevent paying so much.

Nevertheless, don't give up. I'm sure you can fight for what is rightfully yours.