[matter]

5th April 2010 10:44 EST WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.

Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

If you have played COD, it will look EERILY similar.

[LiquidTurbo]

http://www.revscene.net/forums/collateral-murder-t611026.html

[Presto]

Thanks OP. The original post on RS is in the NSFW section, and I don't think people want to go there on their work machine.

[babykiller]

They had this on Gawker (http://gawker.com/5510094/wikileaks-video-demonstrates-conclusively-that-innocent-people-get-killed-in-wars?skyline=true&s=i), and the commentariat have a lot of good thought provoking stuff to say about the nature of war and "collateral damage".

[StylinRed]

i've read some comments elsewhere about the AK-47 so i thought id just say

everyone in that area of the world has an ak-47

the us military has made a point of... pointing that out when speaking with the media and saying its something they must consider when encountering locals (this is for the troops on the ground)

so i cant see anyone accepting that as an excuse for the apache opening up

[TOPEC]

it says the locals had a RPG and were firing at the apache. did that ever happen? cause i didnt see anyone bullets flying arnd prior.

[StylinRed]

^^^ yeah i was just listening to the whole video

it starts off with an 2 AK's than the camera mans camera becomes an RPG and who's getting ready to fire... then they have small arms fire.... which later on becomes rpg fire

and when they find the little girl they're like "shouldnt bring their kid to a battle"

-_-


edit: and im ssuming the guy laying on his stomach that looks like he's lying on an rpg round is probably the camerman and his camera



and near the end of the video they get a couple guys who have ak's walk into a building and they say its 5-6people from their "previous engagement" who are in an "abandoned building, looks like its under construction" and it just looks like your typical building...

[Toeknee]

Fuck that was unbearable to watch... the guy trying to crawl away on the curb... some guys with van trying to save him

Im fucking tearing up godamn it

[StylinRed]

the building at the end that got taken out... after the 1st missle there were a lot of people who went to check out what was happening you could see them yet they didn't care when firing the 2nd and 3rd hellfire

[Presto]

It's interesting to see how the various media outlets spin this. Reuters has it on the front page. CNN has it buried somewhere in the pile, where they make no mention of the children, and try to wash it. Fox(Faux) News has no mention of it, instead opting for the latest celebrity trash.

My GF and I were raging after watching it, and we were already raging from watching Manufacturing Consent, which fits right in line with the media response.


EDIT: Faux News does have an article on it, which, surprisingly, has all the details. The article is fairly buried. It's under Politics > Pentagon.

[twitchyzero]

the americans wonder why they aren't welcomed..

[LUUUUUUUU]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLYk07oGN4&feature=related

[StylinRed]

^^^ thought that was going to be a video of an iraqi soldier talking about killing americans

wow that's messed, never knew about it

[Vansterdam]

^ same and yea that first vid looks like a ac130 too much cod lately for me with double xp -_-

[hal0g0dv2]

^ same and yea that first vid looks like a ac130 too much cod lately for me with double xp -_-

Was thinking the same thing
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[fsy82]

and american's wonder why they are so hated

[Ronin]

^ same and yea that first vid looks like a ac130 too much cod lately for me with double xp -_-

It's either an AC-130 or an apache. I'd lean toward the helicopter gunship though since the gun sounds different than all the AC-130 videos I've watched.

But yeah, this is appalling that they can fire on people that are not in any way a threat (seriously...AK-47's are little threat to helicopters from that height...) with such shoddy intelligence. The guy peeks around a corner and his camera is suddenly an RPG? I think they were just seeing what they wanted to see there...since I don't think they would have authorization to fire if they were carrying AK's but RPGs are a different story.

What's worse is how most of the major news outlets are not reporting on this apart from Reuters because it was their own people that were killed.

[Gumby]

Reports say it was an Apache, and the unit looks like it's traveling much slower than an AC-130. The targeting crosshair (probably for the chain gun) appears to be linked to the gunner's helmet - it points where he looks.

The gunner was pretty bloodthirsty - he was almost treating this like a video game!

[twitchyzero]

i dont see how the camera gear can mimick an ak-47
only when the guy was crouched down the corner did it look like a rpg

[vafanculo]

Care package glitch
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[- kT]

that gunner is way too eager to hit the trigger

at 8:33, you can hear him say "come on buddy, all you gotta do is pick up a weapon"
there wasn't even anything in the area that looked like any kind of weapon

[babykiller]

I gotta say, gunship is such a cool term...

[TheKingdom2000]

this is one of the saddest things i've ever seen.


fuck. i can't believe this.



"I know that two children were hurt, and we did everything we could to help them."
-Major Brent Cummings

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME.

[LsquareD]

-Major Brent Cummings

i chuckled a little.

[Hondaracer]

Enemy and friendly all look the same in these places

id say guys carrying AK's and hiding around corners as the one guy is in the beggning at least looks like a threat.

[TheKingdom2000]

Enemy and friendly all look the same in these places

id say guys carrying AK's and hiding around corners as the one guy is in the beggning at least looks like a threat.

This is true, it's really sad to see..

I think it's you're dammed if you do or you're dammed if you don't.
I mean what if these people were actually armed?

[bcedhk]

for the guys that did the killing, i wouldn't mind the Westboro baptist church going to their funeral when they die.

[cressydrift]

If your in a war zone, expect to be shot. That being said, the worst part of the video was when the van came. CLEARLY A RESCUE!

I remember reading about these guys in Colorado, who fly UAV's over Iraq and Afghanistan from a base in Colorado. Some UAV's are armed and they would kill many people everyday 9-5 Mon-Fri. Imagine that, killing kids, women etc etc, in a place half way around the world, then coming home and watching the 6 o'clock news and eating dinner with the family. FUCKED.

[gearshifter]

Fuck man.... I watched a quarter of it and it was hard to bare... fuck!

[m4k4v4li]

im desensitized

[babykiller]

If your in a war zone, expect to be shot. That being said, the worst part of the video was when the van came. CLEARLY A RESCUE!

I remember reading about these guys in Colorado, who fly UAV's over Iraq and Afghanistan from a base in Colorado. Some UAV's are armed and they would kill many people everyday 9-5 Mon-Fri. Imagine that, killing kids, women etc etc, in a place half way around the world, then coming home and watching the 6 o'clock news and eating dinner with the family. FUCKED.

Yeah, but it was rescuing "bad guys", at least in the eyes of the gunners.

I gotta say, you have to wonder about the mentality of guys who are pulling the trigger. Not like, "oh they are so insensitive, those monsters". These are the guys who HAVE to make the decisions to take another persons life. You always hear people going on about how theres no respect, like the guys in the videos, but how do they want them to react? "Oh I'm emotionally torn about the tragedies of war, it's an outrage, BLAM BLAM BLAM". These guys have to be ok with killing in that situation.

I know a bunch of guys who are firefighters and they see dead people all the time, and sometimes lose people they are trying to rescue. They have total gallows humour about it, like "haha so-and-so, lost another one! You've got the death touch man!"

It's not exactly the same, but it kind of shows the mindset you have to be in to deal with stuff that is literally life and death.

[Presto]

The main point of the video is to expose the lies of the original report. This video exposes that established Rules of Engagement are not being followed. A lot of the statements that were made officially are completely false, like what actually happened to the children, contrary to the official statement. According to the ROE at the time, non-combatants are off-limits, which includes the injured.

[babykiller]

The main point of the video is to expose the lies of the original report. This video exposes that established Rules of Engagement are not being followed. A lot of the statements that were made officially are completely false, like what actually happened to the children, contrary to the official statement.

It would be hard for the Pentagon to even back up their statements, considering they don't even know (http://gawker.com/5511200/wikileaks-better-at-finding-classified-pentagon-videos-than-pentagon) where the original is...

[Tegra_Devil]

I know a bunch of guys who are firefighters and they see dead people all the time, and sometimes lose people they are trying to rescue. They have total gallows humour about it, like "haha so-and-so, lost another one! You've got the death touch man!"


the guys you know are shitty firefighters if thats how they act...the fire dept doesnt need people like that...and i dont think they should be firefighters

but i also think they could be verbally cover up emotional trauma like that..ive seen lots of firefighters who do this. but then down the road they turn into total wrecks.

oh ya...and fuck american soldiers...they are disgusting...i wouldnt be so upset if they came clean, and said we made a horrible mistake...but the fact that they try to cover it up thats sick....

and where are these weapons that were on the ground when the ground troops showed up...did the 30mm shells magically change every weapon into Cannon cameras? i dont think so, just like WMD's....Americans look at yourself, everyone in the world hates you and more of you will die in foreign countries and die on your own soil.

[babykiller]

the guys you know are shitty firefighters if thats how they act...the fire dept doesnt need people like that...and i dont think they should be firefighters



:squint: Shitty firefighters? Dealing with death and pretty upsetting experiences in a way that you don't agree with makes them bad at their job?

[babykiller]

:squint: Shitty firefighters? Dealing with death and pretty upsetting experiences in a way that you don't agree with makes them bad at their job?

Oh wait I see you are a firefighter yourself. Maybe you know a little better than I do :o

[murd0c]

Fire fighters and doctors normally act that way when dealing with things like that. My mom used to work in a burn unti and when children came in they used to call them crispy critters. Yes it may sound sick but its a way a lot of people deal with the sad situtation they are faced with.
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[Ulic Qel-Droma]

the guys you know are shitty firefighters if thats how they act...the fire dept doesnt need people like that...and i dont think they should be firefighters

but i also think they could be verbally cover up emotional trauma like that..ive seen lots of firefighters who do this. but then down the road they turn into total wrecks.

actually it's quite normal for anyone in any job where you deal with this kinda shit to joke about it.

it's very normal for soldiers to laugh about death and poke and joke about it. it's the only way people can deal with it. laughing is a stress reliever. you turn everything into a joke.




im just gonna quote what i wrote in the NSFW thread

it doesn't matter what they say or how they treated it. They followed what anyone of you guys would do if you were in that situation.

http://streetbonersandtvcarnage.com/blog/the-iraq-report-collateral-murder/#more-16247

read that article.

the pilots have no way of knowing the full story.

i'm just gonna quote my friend:
" i think because the wounded included children, and because it's so shocking to see the tragedy caught on tape people are really quick to condemn the pilots and soldiers as "murderers" etc. on the flip side, if they'd have circled around closer and the men had been carrying RPGs and that was a video of an apache getting blown up, or of a suicide bomber killing iraqi civilians, would anyone really give a shit?"

exactly. so on the flipside, are you gonna take the risk? you see a buncha guys down there with things on their shoulders and things in their hands, you really gonna just sit there and wonder if they're gonna blow you up?

say the video had no audio, would you guys still be as offended? does it even matter what they say? they could have been completely egoless, and the result still would have been the same.

[Sid Vicious]

yea
the journalists embedded themselves with people carrying rpgs and ak47s in a warzone

what did they expect? play with fire, get burnt

[jeff_alexander]

Deserved it, peaking around a corner to look at ground forces with a camera that looks like an rpg.
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[cressydrift]

Deserved it, peaking around a corner to look at ground forces with a camera that looks like an rpg.
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Don't think he "Deserved" to die... it was maybe a matter of time, but deserved to die is very harsh .


I think what makes all this worse (In my eye's) is not the fact that 10 people got shot up. It just the fact that America does not belong there. They made a mistake on intel and are still there? Estimates are all over the place with casualties of the war. The estimates for innocent civilian deaths range from as low as 100,000 to 1,000,000+. Regardless that is way to many people to die for no reason.


Here is my question? Why don't they just win the god damn war's? They got all the money, all the tech and kit, and support of the world. Go in there and finish the fuckin job. This is war, not a fuckin art project.

[impactX]

The ironic thing is that we are sitting in our own comfortable home/office with the carebear mode on, criticizing people who were half a world away and potentially getting blown up, and thinking we are qualified to make the decision for them.

Other than the guy peeking out, check out 3:40-3:48, second guy from the left who was also carrying an object that looked like an RPG.

Hindsight is 20/20; but if you were there, you probably would've done the same thing with your training and experience.

FYI, I don't support the war in Iraq either.

[Hondaracer]

Don't think he "Deserved" to die... it was maybe a matter of time, but deserved to die is very harsh .


I think what makes all this worse (In my eye's) is not the fact that 10 people got shot up. It just the fact that America does not belong there. They made a mistake on intel and are still there? Estimates are all over the place with casualties of the war. The estimates for innocent civilian deaths range from as low as 100,000 to 1,000,000+. Regardless that is way to many people to die for no reason.


Here is my question? Why don't they just win the god damn war's? They got all the money, all the tech and kit, and support of the world. Go in there and finish the fuckin job. This is war, not a fuckin art project.


How do you win a war in which you cant distinguish Ally from Enemy?

[JD¹³]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLYk07oGN4&feature=related
The commanding officers of these guys........ fucking pathetic. They should be dishonourably discharged for allowing that kind of shit to go on let alone encouraging it.

[LUUUUUUUU]

real life AC130
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OkoWEMCnLQ

[TOPEC]

^ what the hell is the guy yelling in the back?

[J-Chow]

^ doesn't he say something like "Gun READY!" or something along the lines of that.

I remember it from COD.

[rice cooker]

He didnt deserve to die but its still collateral damage. Its a warzone. He looked like a threat they acted on it
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[keitaro]

^ what the hell is the guy yelling in the back?

^ doesn't he say something like "Gun READY!" or something along the lines of that.

I remember it from COD.

Looks like they are firing the main 105mm Howitzer thus they need to load it after each round.

[DA9ve]

If you guys ever get the chance, go watch Green Zone with Matt Damon. Similar premise and shows how fucked up how high ranking officers act like robots to bs intel.

Its seems pretty obvious some of the shit happening in Iraq is wrong and yet the world seems to turn a blind eye.

[seakrait]

Looks like they are firing the main 105mm Howitzer thus they need to load it after each round.

exactly. M102 howitzer.

[BlacknJean]

Loader yelling gun ready gun ready so gunner will know when to shoot

[dj bally]

If you guys ever get the chance, go watch Green Zone with Matt Damon. Similar premise and shows how fucked up how high ranking officers act like robots to bs intel.

Its seems pretty obvious some of the shit happening in Iraq is wrong and yet the world seems to turn a blind eye.

i also recommend this movie all abt bullshit intel coming in and wasting soldiers time looking up sites and coming up with nothing. You will be saying FUCK YOU AMERICA by the end of it if you aren't already