[Timpo]

interesting read...they tried 10 times to see if Veyron could win
http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/General_News/Veyron-Top-Gear-race-faked-20100412

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXqSedWSu2k

[Tegra_Devil]

McLaren > Veyron......any day

[LiquidTurbo]

"When we did the race in Abu Dhabi, we beat it off the line so many times that the film crew was getting frustrated because the outcome was supposed to be for the Bugatti to win."

"So we had to do that whole thing about ten times before it managed to get off the line cleanly and catch us up. Because every time they dropped the clutch it bogged down and we were gone."

WTF? Screw Top Gear, if that's the case. If the F1 is faster, then that needs to be portrayed. Perhaps Bugatti paid them off or something.

[!LittleDragon]

I don't know why people compare the two. They're built for different things. One is a light, nimble, balls out sports car and the other is a luxury cruiser that just happens to be able to go 252mph.

[LiquidTurbo]

I don't know why people compare the two. They're built for different things. One is a light, nimble, balls out sports car and the other is a luxury cruiser that just happens to be able to go 252mph.

They're compared because both are considered the pinnacle of Supercar engineering for its time. Not to mention they both hold the title Fastest Production car for their respective time periods.

The design philosophy is different, but the end goals were the same.

[Dentz]

I kinda think McLaren is a little but-hurt after getting dethroned; seems kind of like poor looser to me, no?


Anyways, they're both highly respectable vehicles, and I'm sure they're both great at what they were designed to do.

[reaver64]

I kinda think McLaren is a little but-hurt after getting dethroned; seems kind of like poor looser to me, no?


Anyways, they're both highly respectable vehicles, and I'm sure they're both great at what they were designed to do.

I don't think that McLaren designers or anyone for that matter is disputing the fact the Veyron is faster. However, I would be butt-hurt too if two professional drivers pilot the cars, mine happens to win 9/10 times, and they only show the one where the other driver wins. On top of that, the program doesn't mention the nine other times. So sure, the Veyron is "faster", but consistency is not one of its high points.

[skyxx]

We all know Top Gear is a Bias show and we love it for that. ;)

[shenmecar]

We all know Top Gear is a Bias show and we love it for that. ;)

agreed

[G-spec]

Top Gear is British however, I am very surprised that they chose to be biased towards an Italian made car as opposed to the British McLaren. (and yes I know about Bugatti Audi, and Mclaren BMW engine...etc... for all the RS nitpickers)

And yes, the only thing that binds these two cars together is their top speed.... everything else is worlds apart in terms of automotive engineering.

I know top speed is a big deal, but I still don't get the push to have these in the same category, it doesn't make sense to any true automotive enthusiast.

[Lomac]

Some numbers:

McLaren F1 -
0-30 mph (48 km/h): 1.8 s[3]
0–60 mph (97 km/h): 3.2 s[3]
0–100 mph (160 km/h): 6.3 s[3]
0–124.28 mph (200.01 km/h): 9.4 s[26]
0–150 mph (240 km/h): 12.8 s[3]
0–200 mph (320 km/h): 28 s[3]

Bugatti Veyron
0–100 km/h (0.0–62.1 mph) 2.5 seconds
0–160 km/h (0.0–99.4 mph) 5.5 seconds
0–240 km/h (0.0–149.1 mph) 9.8 seconds
0–300 km/h (0.0–186.4 mph) 16.7 seconds
0–400 km/h (0.0–248.5 mph) 50 seconds

From everything I've read, the Bugatti is quicker at the top range of speed than the F1, so it's not surprising it started pulling away in the TG video near the end of the 1 mile drag.

This is the recorded F1 1 mile drag:
0-1000 m: 19.6 s at 177 mph (285 km/h)

At 19 seconds, the Bugatti should be doing around 200 mph. Theoretically this means the TG video is correct. I know there's

[Tegra_Devil]

the bugatti is just a rednecks dream car....straight and fast..

[FerrariEnzo]

why else do you think thaty USED the 1mile track, so it can catch the McLaren...

if its on the quarter mile.. NO contest..

[orange7]

Some numbers:

McLaren F1 -
0-30 mph (48 km/h): 1.8 s[3]
0–60 mph (97 km/h): 3.2 s[3]
0–100 mph (160 km/h): 6.3 s[3]
0–124.28 mph (200.01 km/h): 9.4 s[26]
0–150 mph (240 km/h): 12.8 s[3]
0–200 mph (320 km/h): 28 s[3]

Bugatti Veyron
0–100 km/h (0.0–62.1 mph) 2.5 seconds
0–160 km/h (0.0–99.4 mph) 5.5 seconds
0–240 km/h (0.0–149.1 mph) 9.8 seconds
0–300 km/h (0.0–186.4 mph) 16.7 seconds
0–400 km/h (0.0–248.5 mph) 50 seconds




LOL.. are you should be more consistent with the units. You brain fucked me for 1.5 sec.

[ericthehalfbee]

Has everyone missed this quote?

So we had to do that whole thing about ten times before it managed to get off the line cleanly and catch us up. Because every time they dropped the clutch it bogged down and we were gone.

How can you drop the clutch on a car with no clutch pedal (Bugatti has DSG)? And how can a car with launch control get bogged down? Or are they saying the launch control on the Veyron fails 9 out of 10 times, and if so, why haven't we heard about this before? Do people who pay this kind of money for a car put up with a car that only launches good 1 in 10 tries?

If there's one thing the Veyron is known for (good or bad) is that any Joe Schmuck can get in, press a couple buttons, step on the gas and run consistent blistering 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. How many countless reviews have their been of the Veyron where they have shown this to be true?

And now we have a car that for some reason can't launch?

Something really doesn't add up in that statement about "bogging down".

[Kim Jong Un]

Did anyone noticed this? But OMFG Timpo is back!

[underscore]

Has everyone missed this quote?

So we had to do that whole thing about ten times before it managed to get off the line cleanly and catch us up. Because every time they dropped the clutch it bogged down and we were gone.

How can you drop the clutch on a car with no clutch pedal (Bugatti has DSG)? And how can a car with launch control get bogged down? Or are they saying the launch control on the Veyron fails 9 out of 10 times, and if so, why haven't we heard about this before? Do people who pay this kind of money for a car put up with a car that only launches good 1 in 10 tries?

If there's one thing the Veyron is known for (good or bad) is that any Joe Schmuck can get in, press a couple buttons, step on the gas and run consistent blistering 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. How many countless reviews have their been of the Veyron where they have shown this to be true?

And now we have a car that for some reason can't launch?

Something really doesn't add up in that statement about "bogging down".

Honest question: Can the traction/launch control be turned off?

[orange7]

Did anyone noticed this? But OMFG Timpo is back!

OMGWTFBBQ!!1!~~

When did this happen?

He's back for real???

now when is chopsticks coming back?

[TRD Rs200]

I will take F1 over the Veyron anytime

[ericthehalfbee]

Honest question: Can the traction/launch control be turned off?
My understanding is launch control is off and has to be specifically enabled. There are lots of Veyron launch videos around and they all look a lot faster than the Top Gear race. The engine RPM's are also clearly different from the Top Gear race. I'm betting they they didn't use launch control.

Maybe the quote was referring to the F1 not getting a good start and they had to give it 10 tries to not be totally embarassed by the Veyron. Oh, and turn off launch control.

Completely lame video.

F1 would've gotten killed if they used launch control.

[Amaru]

I call bullshit. F1 is obviously a better overall car (probably the best ever), but the Veyron is faster in every single test I've ever seen, including off the line. Not really shocking, it has the highest power to weight ratio of any street car.

[underscore]

My understanding is launch control is off and has to be specifically enabled. There are lots of Veyron launch videos around and they all look a lot faster than the Top Gear race. The engine RPM's are also clearly different from the Top Gear race. I'm betting they they didn't use launch control.

Maybe the quote was referring to the F1 not getting a good start and they had to give it 10 tries to not be totally embarassed by the Veyron. Oh, and turn off launch control.

Completely lame video.

F1 would've gotten killed if they used launch control.

Gotcha, thanks.

Either way, there's a lot more important shit than drag times. Anyone paying that much for a car should be able to excel at things on top of just going in a straight line :haha:

[Timpo]

I call bullshit. F1 is obviously a better overall car (probably the best ever), but the Veyron is faster in every single test I've ever seen, including off the line. Not really shocking, it has the highest power to weight ratio of any street car.I beg to differ...

Bugatti Veyron
4500 lbs
1001 hp
4.49lb/hp
http://cultureshoq.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bugatti_veyron.jpg

Caparo T1
1482 lbs
575 hp
2.57lb/hp
http://www.carkeys.co.uk/images/cm_images/gallery/caparo/gcpt106.jpg

[penner2k]

Lets rephrase that... The Bugatti has the highest power to weight ratio of any car that hasnt tried to injure or kill almost everyone that has attempted to test the car.

[Timpo]

Lets rephrase that... The Bugatti has the highest power to weight ratio of any car that hasnt tried to injure or kill almost everyone that has attempted to test the car.
well the Caparo T1 isn't the only one...I just did some reserch and I came up with several

Saleen S7 TwinTurbo

2950 lbs
750 hp
3.93 lbs/hp

http://www.bangalorebeats.com/images/saleen-s7.jpeg

Lotec Sirius

2822 lbs
1334 hp
2.11 lbs/hp

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/lotec_sirius.jpg

SSC Ultimate Aero

2750 lbs
1287 hp
2.13 lbs/hp

http://tagorock.up.seesaa.net/image/SSC-Ultimate-Aero2.jpg

Aerial Atom

1102 lbs
500 hp
2.20 lbs/hp

http://www.edmunds.com/media/il/features/general/aerial.atom/ariel.atom.f34.500.jpg

Koenigsegg CCXR

2601 lbs
1018 hp
2.55 hp/lb

http://www.lmpcars.com/image/Koenigsegg-CCXR_Edition_2008_1280x960_wallpaper_07--thumb.jpg

Zenvo ST1

3034 lbs
1104 hp
2.74 lb/hp

http://blog.mybarachois.com/b1/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/zenvo-st1.jpg

Nissan R390 GT1

2420 lbs
550 hp
4.40 lbs/hp

http://www.fastestlaps.com/photos/Nissan_R390_GT1_4892f505c6961.jpg

Ferrari FXX

2546 lbs
860 hp
2.96 lbs/hp

http://file.photoshocks.blog.shinobi.jp/ferrari_fxx_edo_.jpg

Porsche Dauer 962

2271 lbs
730 hp
3.11 lbs/hp

http://img.autofan.com.cn/2007-09-04/10/4dcdc808c58d.JPG

McLaren F1

2513 lbs
627 hp
4.00 lbs/hp

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3166/2855261882_7283bf5ea4.jpg

Toyota GT-ONE Road Car

1984 lbs
660 hp
3.30 lbs/hp

http://www.totalmotorsport.com/Features/Cars/Storage/Toyota%20GT%20One%20Road%20car2.jpg

Caterham Seven RST-V8
1146 lbs
500 hp
2.29 lbs/hp

http://static.autoweb.cz/photo/thumb/38575_620x0x85.jpg

Porsche Schuppan 962CR

2315 lbs
600 hp
3.85 lb/hp

http://www.goldengod.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/porsche_schuppan962cr.jpg

[racerman88]

can anyone find the clip of the other races where the Mclaren wins?

[Timpo]

can anyone find the clip of the other races where the Mclaren wins?

no, watch the video clip again...according to top gear, it was "first time ever" those cars raced head to head.

[ericthehalfbee]

can anyone find the clip of the other races where the Mclaren wins?
I don't think the F1 ever wins a race - I think it was the one bogging down and getting a poor launch. Somehow the story got reversed and people assume the F1 was the onw winning.

[freakshow]

I don't think the F1 ever wins a race - I think it was the one bogging down and getting a poor launch. Somehow the story got reversed and people assume the F1 was the onw winning.

This is a the quote found in another article.. it sounds like they are definitely inferring that the Veyron has a clutch.

His criticism extended beyond aesthetics. He said a recent televised road race organised by the BBC in Abu Dhabi between the Veyron and the McLaren F1 roadcar – the fastest roadcar in the world from its launch in 1992 until the Veyron was produced in 2005 – had to be rigged to make the Veyron look quicker than it was.

“I know that they have to cut the car open to take the engine out. To make an engine in that configuration, you know, it doesn’t go around corners. When we did the race in Abu Dhabi, we beat it off the line so many times that the film crew was getting frustrated because the outcome was supposed to be for the Bugatti to win.

“So we had to do that whole thing about ten times before it managed to get off the line cleanly and catch us up. Because every time they dropped the clutch it bogged down and we were gone.”

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/585091-ron-dennis-brands-2m-bugatti-veyron-piece-of-junk

[ericthehalfbee]

^ Veyron has a clutch (two clutches actually) and they are computer controlled. There's no clutch pedal and it's impossible to drop the clutch on a Veyron.

Also, since it's computer controlled, how can it make mistakes and get "bogged down"? As I mentioned earlier, are people going to buy a Veyron and put up with a car that bogs down 9 out of 10 times? Why haven't we heard about a Veyron bogging down until now? It's been tested by numerous drivers and they have all said how easy it is to enable launch control and make a perfect start every time.

This is the complete opposite of what they're saying about the F1/Veyron race.

Even the driver in the Veyron is going "how is this happening" because he probably knows the Veyron will walk away from an F1 every single time from a start.



Oh, and Ron Dennis accusing them of cheating? Take a look at your own racng career before you accuse someone else of cheating, hypocrite.

[underscore]

they could be referring to the launch as "dropping the clutch," and they don't state whether LC is on or off in the video.

either way, it's a gimmicky race for a TV show. I don't get why it's a big deal.

[Timpo]

"McLaren F1 was built utterly without compromise"

well...that is NOT true, there's one compromise that Gordon Murray had to take..the engine.

Murray was hoping to get Honda's V10 or V12 in it, Honda decilined 3 times, so Murray had to get a BMW engine instead...which was heavier than what he was hoping for, but because of big displacement, it had more power.

The McLaren F1's was built to celebrate Honda and McLaren's partnership to win numerous races in F1, so it was only natural to go for Honda engine.