[BaoXu]

Would you just rent for the rest of your lives?? Or would you move elsewhere??

[asian_XL]

planning to get your ass back to China, baoxu?

[orange7]

move somewhere else.

[BaoXu]

planning to get your ass back to China, baoxu?

hahaha actually i'm planning to hit up the motherland in a year or so.

the housing market in china is apeshit crazy too. probably more crazy in china since there's so many people!!

[impactX]

You're right. If you can't afford a place in Vancouver, you probably can't afford a decent place in mainland China.

[Marioo1991]

i'd buy a condo/townhouse instead.

[thumper]

you have to move away from vancouver... my friend just had her second child and the little rental they had in vancouver was too small to raise their family in, and they can't afford to rent something larger or a mortgage at current rates so now they have been forced to move out to pitt meadows and commute every day :(

[SkinnyPupp]

You're right. If you can't afford a place in Vancouver, you probably can't afford a decent place in mainland China.
It totally depends on what is an acceptable lifestyle to you. If you life in a gated area closed off from the China-ness of China, then it will be quite a bit more. But then, you are basically locked in your own home.

Of course you could move to a regular neighbourhood, but then you are still in China... Not the kind of place I'd want to live personally.

[hotjoint]

i'd buy a condo/townhouse instead.

this

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

i'd buy a condo/townhouse instead.

:thumbsup:

[dachinesedude]

cant afford a house but really want one? move to Detroit

[BaoXu]

how much are apartments going for nowadays??

[alex.w *//]

^ as low as 200k

[Marioo1991]

how much are apartments going for nowadays??

they can go from 100k way out in the suburbs to $10 mil+ for a dt penthouse. I would say average condo in vancouver would be 300-400k?

[amanonfire]

Rent for as long as possible then move to a different city, outside of the lower mainland. Long commutes are horrible.

Unemployment is as high here as many other places in the country, while the average wage is lower. The only reason to stay in the weather, since the lifestyle becomes unaffordable if you buy real estate (unless you live off credit, then your days are numbered).

Most wives/mothers value owning cause it is stability, so even if you think you'll rent forever, most likely your girl will pressure you to buy so she can nest.

[Ducdesmo]

I would move out east. It's more affordable there.

[The_AK]

you have to move away from vancouver... my friend just had her second child and the little rental they had in vancouver was too small to raise their family in, and they can't afford to rent something larger or a mortgage at current rates so now they have been forced to move out to pitt meadows and commute every day :(

Ouch!

[vafanculo]

Do you mean stay in bc in general, or tottaly change it up and move far away from van?

Farthest I would move would be Langley, but that's if I HAD to. Would rather live in an older smaller place in Vancouver/Richmond than commute everyday. But then again even if commuting wasn't an issue I'd stay around here.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[unit]

they can go from 100k way out in the suburbs to $10 mil+ for a dt penthouse. I would say average condo in vancouver would be 300-400k?

3-400k is entry level in vancouver for a new-ish condo. you might get 700sq ft if you're lucky, and it depends on which part of vancouver. in downtown you'll prob get under 600sq ft. not the kind of place you'd want to stay for long.

personally i need 1000sq ft to live in and be comfortable.
not something i can afford right now!
when i decide to buy it'll hopefully be a townhouse.

i would consider moving out of vancouver, however of all the places i've visited so far, i cant see myself living in them for a long period of time other than here.
guess i gotta keep travelling and see more of whats out there. all the good cities in the states are more expensive than vancouver to live in.

[Phat_R]

Time to start developing the downtown eastside

[TheKingdom2000]

I honestly believe the best investment you can make today is moving and buying a house in Surrey.

That is probably the last city that has reasonable prices for housing and isn't too far from Vancouver.

And in about 10-15years it's going to be a completely different city imo. If I had a lot of extra cash I would buy a house in Surrey.
And if you want to eventually move back in Van/Burn/Rich the ROI on your Surrey house should appreciate enough that getting a mortgage would be more realistic.

[Marioo1991]

3-400k is entry level in vancouver for a new-ish condo. you might get 700sq ft if you're lucky, and it depends on which part of vancouver. in downtown you'll prob get under 600sq ft. not the kind of place you'd want to stay for long.

personally i need 1000sq ft to live in and be comfortable.
not something i can afford right now!
when i decide to buy it'll hopefully be a townhouse.

i would consider moving out of vancouver, however of all the places i've visited so far, i cant see myself living in them for a long period of time other than here.
guess i gotta keep travelling and see more of whats out there. all the good cities in the states are more expensive than vancouver to live in.

you can get over 1000 sq/ft easily in that 300-400k price range, but your going to be sacrificing age/location, and will be paying for it in ridiculous maintenance fees.

For myself, I put location and age the top of my priority list. It all depends on lifestyle, i spend most of my time at work or school, aside from sleeping i spend maybe a few hours a night at home.

[Tapioca]

Renting is pretty good in BC because tenants have a lot of rights that they do not necessarily enjoy in other parts of the country.

I live in a "shoebox in the sky" and it's not bad for a bachelor. But, if I'm going to have a family, it would be a bit of a challenge. Staying in Vancouver is probably far more doable as a bachelor because of the large amount of housing available that is designed for singles (1 or 2 bedroom apartments less than 1000 sq. ft.)

[quasi]

I prefer the burbs to living in Vancouver so I guess my answer is stay elsewhere?

[unit]

you can get over 1000 sq/ft easily in that 300-400k price range, but your going to be sacrificing age/location, and will be paying for it in ridiculous maintenance fees.

For myself, I put location and age the top of my priority list. It all depends on lifestyle, i spend most of my time at work or school, aside from sleeping i spend maybe a few hours a night at home.

you can, but i dont wanna live in maple ridge or langely.
i meant strictly in vancouver, possibly burnaby.
and yeah age does matter. older than 10 years is too old.

[!Aznboi128]

I've been looking at some townhouses in burnaby.... it's quite a bit better in terms of pricing

[Ch28]

Either buy into Surrey now while housing costs are relatively ok or get a condo.

[hotjoint]

I honestly believe the best investment you can make today is moving and buying a house in Surrey.

That is probably the last city that has reasonable prices for housing and isn't too far from Vancouver.

And in about 10-15years it's going to be a completely different city imo. If I had a lot of extra cash I would buy a house in Surrey.
And if you want to eventually move back in Van/Burn/Rich the ROI on your Surrey house should appreciate enough that getting a mortgage would be more realistic.

Either buy into Surrey now while housing costs are relatively ok or get a condo.

This

Langley isnt even that far or bad. A buddy of mine bought a 2 year old townhouse for about 320k and its huge. A few friends of mine are looking for places and have checked out surrey. They can get a pretty decent townhouse for just a little over 300k here. I told them to move to surrey but they're bitches and want to stay in vancouver because they're used to living there. I told them at the end of the day its not where you live, its how much you can afford and not kill yourself

[Marioo1991]

This

Langley isnt even that far or bad. A buddy of mine bought a 2 year old townhouse for about 320k and its huge. A few friends of mine are looking for places and have checked out surrey. They can get a pretty decent townhouse for just a little over 300k here. I told them to move to surrey but they're bitches and want to stay in vancouver because they're used to living there. I told them at the end of the day its not where you live, its how much you can afford and not kill yourself

The problem with Langley is if you work in vancouver/dt the commute would be horrible. Surrey isnt bad since theres the skytrain, but i know people who spend 3-4 hours/day commuting from Langley to downtown.

[tonyvu]

i'd buy a condo/townhouse instead.

same.... couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

[amanonfire]

all the good cities in the states are more expensive than vancouver to live in.
With the obvious exception of downtown NYC, almost all American cities are cheaper.

[q0192837465]

Live closer to the border so u can save by shopping down in the states.

Or maybe buy in the states & commute up here everyday

[amanonfire]

I honestly believe the best investment you can make today is moving and buying a house in Surrey.

That is probably the last city that has reasonable prices for housing and isn't too far from Vancouver.

And in about 10-15years it's going to be a completely different city imo. If I had a lot of extra cash I would buy a house in Surrey.
And if you want to eventually move back in Van/Burn/Rich the ROI on your Surrey house should appreciate enough that getting a mortgage would be more realistic.
Please don't take this advice unless your timeframe is 10+ years.

We're nearing a peak in housing values (active listings are increasing faster than 2008 when the market dropped). After the last housing peak in Vancouver it took 8 years before housing hit the same level again, > 10 years if you account for inflation.

[amanonfire]

I told them to move to surrey but they're bitches and want to stay in vancouver because they're used to living there. I told them at the end of the day its not where you live, its how much you can afford and not kill yourself
At the end of the day it is about living.

For the same price I'll take renting a 2bdrm condo 4 blocks from Kits beach and a lovely 10 min commute on my bicycle vs mortgage/taxes on a house in Surrey with a 10'x20' backyard and an hour commute in traffic.

[amanonfire]

Either buy into Surrey now while housing costs are relatively ok or get a condo.

There's a few developments in Surrey where the prices have dropped from the presale prices. Expect to see more of that, there's no hurry to buy.

[babykiller]

Was talking about this with the wife the other day.

When I was growing up I always assumed that I would have a place like the one my middle class parents owned, which was a pretty nice three level house, 3000+ sqf in Aldergrove. Now we're thinking about buying a place here in van for the same amount, relatively, that they paid. 700sqf if we're lucky in kits / vgh, marginally bigger then farther away we go from that area. It's fucking crazy.

One one hand, we love living in Van, but is being here worth living in a shoe box? I don't know if I want to spend that much money on a place when I stink up our ENTIRE HOUSE every time i take a shit.

[Tapioca]

Please don't take this advice unless your timeframe is 10+ years.

We're nearing a peak in housing values (active listings are increasing faster than 2008 when the market dropped). After the last housing peak in Vancouver it took 8 years before housing hit the same level again, > 10 years if you account for inflation.

The current housing boom is fueled by offshore money. I know it's just one example, but a colleague of mine rents a house on the west side and guess who bought the big house down the block? Some guy from Mainland China. And Mainlanders seem to frequent the open houses in my building.

One one hand, we love living in Van, but is being here worth living in a shoe box? I don't know if I want to spend that much money on a place when I stink up our ENTIRE HOUSE every time i take a shit.

Compared to other cities in Canada, yes. Toronto is a good place if you work in finance, but Ontario generally is in a heap of trouble. Calgary is also intriguing, but they have a different outlook there. Montreal may have nice women and a "joie de vivre" that can't be described, but decaying infrustructure and seemingly endless debates about Quebec's place within Canada leave a lot to be desired. Ottawa is a recession-proof city and has relatively cheap property, but you need to be able to tolerate +40C summers and -40C winters.

[quasi]

The problem with Langley is if you work in vancouver/dt the commute would be horrible. Surrey isnt bad since theres the skytrain, but i know people who spend 3-4 hours/day commuting from Langley to downtown.

I live in Langley my wife works in Burnaby and it's 50 minutes in the morning and 60-70 minutes on the way home. Your friends commute sounds brutal, but I had a friend that lived in Chilliwack and worked at UBC for a year now that was a commute.

[Teh Doucher]

i always told myself that i would buy my own house once i was married but after seeing how the market is now, i think im just more comfortable inheriting my parents house.

[woob]

I'd move to Portland. <3 Portland.

assuming I could find some Geotech work there.

[Marioo1991]

I live in Langley my wife works in Burnaby and it's 50 minutes in the morning and 60-70 minutes on the way home. Your friends commute sounds brutal, but I had a friend that lived in Chilliwack and worked at UBC for a year now that was a commute.

Langley to Burnaby is not bad because its all highway, but from Burnaby to downtown could add on another 30-40 mins.

Chilliwack to ubc? why even bother commuting, just move for the year, not only would you save 4-5 hours of your day, you would save a ton of gas money

[DsZ24]

They should build a skytrain that goes along hwy 1 from abby or chiliwack and connects to the expo line in burnaby somewhere. Can have stops near each hwy exit. It would help out people in the valley who worked downtown every day and there wouldn't be nearly as many cars on the hwy during rush hour. Too bad translink is broke lol

[Hondaracer]

They should build a skytrain that goes along hwy 1 from abby or chiliwack and connects to the expo line in burnaby somewhere. Can have stops near each hwy exit. It would help out people in the valley who worked downtown every day and there wouldn't be nearly as many cars on the hwy during rush hour. Too bad translink is broke lol

there already is a train that goes from mission to downtown

a skytrain along HWY 1 from chilliwack? lol.. and you thought the Canada Line to richmond brought in crime? :haha:

for me, and in my eyes people who grow up in the lower mainland and choose to move to a place like kamloops etc. and try to insist that Kamloops is better than the lower mainland basically just failed early on and gave up at any attempt at being successfull enough to live in the lower mainland

for me, i'd consider myself a failure if i cannot make a decent enough living to at least buy a condo etc. here, Vancouver is the best city there is and there's no way i'm moving away because it's "easier"

[SkinnyPupp]

I would move out of the lower mainland for a while. And since that is the only place I would ever want to live in Canada, that means leaving the country. Hey that's what I did 4 years ago! :thumbsup:

[quasi]

Langley to Burnaby is not bad because its all highway, but from Burnaby to downtown could add on another 30-40 mins.


She doesn't take the HWY our daycare is in Cloverdale. She goes Alex Fraser and Queens Burrow. Taking the Port Mann in the morning when she leaves is 45 minutes just to get from 200th to the bridge.

[rien]

http://www.crackshackormansion.com/

[Marioo1991]

She doesn't take the HWY our daycare is in Cloverdale. She goes Alex Fraser and Queens Burrow. Taking the Port Mann in the morning when she leaves is 45 minutes just to get from 200th to the bridge.

Oh ok well eitther way driving in the suburbs isn't usually as bad as driving in Vancouver...
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[amanonfire]

The current housing boom is fueled by offshore money. I know it's just one example, but a colleague of mine rents a house on the west side and guess who bought the big house down the block? Some guy from Mainland China. And Mainlanders seem to frequent the open houses in my building.
No, it is not. I'll correct the rest of your inaccuracies now.

Toronto is a good place if you work in finance, but Ontario generally is in a heap of trouble.
Unemployment in Ontario is 9.2% compared to 7.9% in BC. Not a huge difference, and Ontario has the benefit of several company headquarters. Vancouver has only one major company headquartered here.

Calgary is also intriguing, but they have a different outlook there.
Real estate still has not recovered to peak values in Calgary and Edmonton, despite equities recovering and new investment in the oil sands.

Ottawa is a recession-proof city
No it is not. Ottawa property values dipped 12% during the 2008 downturn.

Ottawa just got a hiring and salary free at all 3 levels of government. That affects 1 of 3 people who work in Ottawa.

Please try to post correct information, not inaccurate assumptions.

[BaoXu]

I would move out of the lower mainland for a while. And since that is the only place I would ever want to live in Canada, that means leaving the country. Hey that's what I did 4 years ago! :thumbsup:

out of all places, how'd you end up in HK?

[raygunpk]

out of all places, how'd you end up in HK?

only place where he's considered large.

[JesseBlue]

guys remember when they said that the housing prices should go down after the olympics? hasn't happened yet...i live in surrey close to the skytrain...i know surrey is 'bad' in eyes of some/many but i do love living here...only thing is you really should have a car as everything is so spread out

[acurael]

Surrey is the place to be. I never understand why someone would live in Vancouver (excluding downtown) - (unless you are living in a mansion etc). The houses are small, cramped, no parking. For the same price you can get a nice crazy nice house in South Surrey.

Surrey is close to every major city (half hour drive) - van, langley, burnaby, coquitlam. People that talk shit about Surrey have never lived here. Yah there is some crime but most areas have crime. Look at downtown eastside.

Its not like Surrey is cheap either....lowermainland is ridiculous right now. I just dont get why people would spend so much money for Vancouver....get a car and commute if you work downtown etc.? Well thats my opinion

[Mananetwork]

I'd move to Portland. <3 Portland.

assuming I could find some Geotech work there.

I heart Oregon, Cannon beach here I COME!

[TheKingdom2000]

Surrey is the place to be. I never understand why someone would live in Vancouver (excluding downtown) - (unless you are living in a mansion etc). The houses are small, cramped, no parking. For the same price you can get a nice crazy nice house in South Surrey.

Surrey is close to every major city (half hour drive) - van, langley, burnaby, coquitlam. People that talk shit about Surrey have never lived here. Yah there is some crime but most areas have crime. Look at downtown eastside.

Its not like Surrey is cheap either....lowermainland is ridiculous right now. I just dont get why people would spend so much money for Vancouver....get a car and commute if you work downtown etc.? Well thats my opinion

I think you're confused friend. In BC, Vancouver is the place to be.
It hurts every time a friend has to cab home from DT after a party/club when they live in surrey or langley or poco...

Compared to everywhere else, Surrey is as cheap as it gets... relatively of course.

Have you ever lived in Vancouver? If you have, will you honestly say you prefer living in Surrey Vs. Vancouver? If so, why?

[cowcowcafe]

cant afford a house but really want one? move to Detroit

i was in detroit last week, and saw an ad for a house in a ghetto for 7k

[goo3]

Have you ever lived in Vancouver? If you have, will you honestly say you prefer living in Surrey Vs. Vancouver? If so, why?

He said he likes crazy nice houses and thinks half hour drives to nowhere are short. It's what he's used to.. that's why he likes it.

[raygunpk]

lol slurrey

[Hondaracer]

Hmm live in a 1800sq foot 1.2 mill shit box on the north shore with no view or live in a 4500+ sq foot newer home in a neighborhood like Fraser heights, Morgan creek etc

not a hard choice for me, I think the majority of the ppl who live on the north shore in these shit boxes just got in early and couldn't imagine telling someone they live anywhere but Vancouver
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[7seven]

You could not pay me enough to live in Surrey. Vancouver or Burnaby only for me, my office and all the spots I hang out at are in downtown Vancouver and the majority of all the film studios are in Burnaby, not a fan of long commute times and traffic, so for me, I'm ok paying more living in Vancouver/Burnaby area.

[amanonfire]

Surrey is the place to be. I never understand why someone would live in Vancouver (excluding downtown) - (unless you are living in a mansion etc). The houses are small, cramped, no parking. For the same price you can get a nice crazy nice house in South Surrey.
Not everyone prides themselves on material possessions. Yes you have have a bigger nicer house in Surrey, yet it is just more room to fill with over-priced wasteful junk.

I prefer living blocks from the beach, parks, and trails that the city takes care of. I used to have a house and backyard, it sucks to take care of it yourself, and it wasn't even big enough to throw a football.

Surrey is close to every major city (half hour drive) - van
It is not 30 mins to downtown from Surrey unless you're breaking every traffic law and there's no traffic. 45 mins easy, 60+ in traffic.

get a car and commute if you work downtown etc.? Well thats my opinion
A couple years of losing 2 hrs a day in traffic will change your mind.

[amanonfire]

Hmm live in a 1800sq foot 1.2 mill shit box on the north shore with no view or live in a 4500+ sq foot newer home in a neighborhood like Fraser heights, Morgan creek etc
Living on the north shore only mins from the mountains, or live in a huge house in the middle of nowhere.

If you like staying home, sure take the big house. Yet I moved to Vancouver for the outdoor lifestyle, not to be a couch potato.

Plus what the hell are you going to do with 4500 sqft? 2000 sqft is more than enough for a family of 4, the rest would be seldomly used rooms filled with expensive toys rarely used.

[Tapioca]

No, it is not. I'll correct the rest of your inaccuracies now.


Unemployment in Ontario is 9.2% compared to 7.9% in BC. Not a huge difference, and Ontario has the benefit of several company headquarters. Vancouver has only one major company headquartered here.

So, you tell me that offshore money isn't fueling (partially, at least) the real estate market here, then you point out that we have a small industrial base here (which is true). So, what's exactly fueling the market here? Home equity leading to trading up? The wealth management business is pretty healthy here, but I would imagine that most people didn't earn their money here in Vancouver.


Real estate still has not recovered to peak values in Calgary and Edmonton, despite equities recovering and new investment in the oil sands.

You missed what I was trying to say; I wasn't commenting on the real estate market in Alberta. It's a broad statement, but many people have said that Alberta is the Texas of Canada. That's what I meant by "outlook."


No it is not. Ottawa property values dipped 12% during the 2008 downturn.

Ottawa just got a hiring and salary free at all 3 levels of government. That affects 1 of 3 people who work in Ottawa.

Yeah, so that means real estate is even cheaper now.

A hiring freeze doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things as it's very hard to fire and layoff people in the public service. Money will always be flowing to the city because it's the capital - that's what I meant by saying "recession-proof." Unless there's a massive downsizing of government operations in the near future, the economy will remain relatively stable there.

I lived in Ottawa for a while and the amount of "poverty" there is small potatoes compared to the inequality you see out here.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

You could not pay me enough to live in Surrey. Vancouver or Burnaby only for me, my office and all the spots I hang out at are in downtown Vancouver and the majority of all the film studios are in Burnaby, not a fan of long commute times and traffic, so for me, I'm ok paying more living in Vancouver/Burnaby area.

werd

the traffic along will drive me nuts trying to come to work everyday

[amanonfire]

So, you tell me that offshore money isn't fueling (partially, at least) the real estate market here, then you point out that we have a small industrial base here (which is true).
Thank you for correcting yourself. Fueling implying it is the primary driving factor. Yes offshore money is a factor, as well as immigration, yet not a very large factor.

So, what's exactly fueling the market here? Home equity leading to trading up? The wealth management business is pretty healthy here, but I would imagine that most people didn't earn their money here in Vancouver.
More inaccurate assumptions. Stop grandstanding.

Maybe among the $M+ homes, yet the majority of condos and lower prices homes in the burbs are bought by average working people.

You missed what I was trying to say; I wasn't commenting on the real estate market in Alberta.
This is a thread about real estate, please stay on topic or yes we will miss your point.

Yeah, so that means real estate is even cheaper now.
Except that it has risen 16% since the downturn, and is up more than most cities. Please do your research before making comments.

A hiring freeze doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things as it's very hard to fire and layoff people in the public service. Money will always be flowing to the city because it's the capital - that's what I meant by saying "recession-proof." Unless there's a massive downsizing of government operations in the near future, the economy will remain relatively stable there.
These statements contradict each other. I understand what you mean, yet your over-the-top language doesn't help make your point.

All 3 levels of government have enacted a budget and hiring freeze. This means just to pay the 1.5% increase of salaries in the union contracts there has to be attrition, as there is no 1.5% budget increase in a budget freeze.

Unless the economy picks up expect this to get even worse. The public sector has been a target for the provincial Conservatives before (Mike Harris) and it looks like Dalton McGuinty is on his way out.

I lived in Ottawa for a while and the amount of "poverty" there is small potatoes compared to the inequality you see out here.
I lived in Ottawa 13 years and grew up outside Ottawa the 14 years prior. Please don't act like an expert, especially if you don't do your homework.

[Great68]

a skytrain along HWY 1 from chilliwack? lol.. and you thought the Canada Line to richmond brought in crime? :haha:



Crime or not, there IS a need for it. Like the RER trains in Paris that connect the suburbs to the city.

Either way it doesn't matter much to me, since moving across the straight I don't think I ever want to move back to the mainland.

[Tapioca]

Thank you for correcting yourself. Fueling implying it is the primary driving factor. Yes offshore money is a factor, as well as immigration, yet not a very large factor.


More inaccurate assumptions. Stop grandstanding.

Maybe among the $M+ homes, yet the majority of condos and lower prices homes in the burbs are bought by average working people.

I would argue that people are buying because of all of the activity at the higher end of the market which has a trickle-effect to lower-priced condos, homes in the Burbs, etc. The market had to have been fueled by something. Maybe it was Bob Rennie? Record low interest rates? You have, rightly or wrongly, debunked my opinions, but you haven't answered what you think is driving the market.


Except that it has risen 16% since the downturn, and is up more than most cities. Please do your research before making comments.

Okay. But, real estate is a heck of a lot more affordable than it is here.


All 3 levels of government have enacted a budget and hiring freeze. This means just to pay the 1.5% increase of salaries in the union contracts there has to be attrition, as there is no 1.5% budget increase in a budget freeze.

Unless the economy picks up expect this to get even worse. The public sector has been a target for the provincial Conservatives before (Mike Harris) and it looks like Dalton McGuinty is on his way out.

The public sector will obviously become victim to cuts, but I can bet that the job losses will be less than what occured in the private sector. What will happen will be nowhere near what happened in the 90s.

[amanonfire]

I would argue that people are buying because of all of the activity at the higher end of the market which has a trickle-effect to lower-priced condos, homes in the Burbs, etc. The market had to have been fueled by something. Maybe it was Bob Rennie? Record low interest rates? You have, rightly or wrongly, debunked my opinions, but you haven't answered what you think is driving the market.
Stupidity.

Prices will always be higher here than the rest of the country as living here is desirable for both Canadians seeking a better lifestyle/weather, and immigrants choosing Vancouver as the nearest point of entry.

The rest is stupidity.

Lack of education/experience: Most young first time buyers (FTB) I meet in Vancouver have a "get rich quick" opinion of buying real estate. In their adult lives all they've known is the massive run-up from 2002 till now. They've never seen a downturn, or were too young to appreciate it. The downturn in 1994 where prices didn't recover till 2002 (or 2005 if indexed to inflation).

Credit lifestyle:The same FTBs are the first generation of credit, willing to accept paying future debt to acquire possessions now. My parents bought furniture with savings, using a CC or LOC was not the norm as it is now.

Credit has allowed people to buy more and more. Lower rates and longer amortizations means people can afford more, so they'll pay more. Real estate has increased accordingly.

For example:
My $67K salary with few debts in 2003 only allowed me to finance a $220K mortgage over 25 years at 4.3% qualifying with a 40% TDC and 32% GDC and 5% down. So that is the house price I went shopping for.
That same salary would allow me to finance a $350K mortgage over 35 yrs at 3.8% qualifying with a 46% TDC (credit score > 720) and unlimited GDC (credit score > 700) and 5% down.

Effectively the new government rules and rates allowed me to buy > 50% more house. If I was stupid, I would go out and do that without worry that I'll now take 10 more years to pay it off, I'm paying more per month (46% vs 40%) and that my payment will go up significantly in 5 years.

I'll repeat: Stupidity is driving the market.

[Ikkaku]

Honestly, how many young first time buyers are actually people that are making money locally? Over half of the newer Richmond areas are bought out by people who have businesses in China.

Hell, a good portion of my old neighbourhood (Oak and 46ish) was bought out by mainlanders. Directly across the street, they were buying 3-5 houses at a time for townhouse development. In fact, my house was eventually bought out for the same reason.

Most Vancouver specials are heading close to 1mil. That alone would deter FTB, credit increase or not.

[Leopold Stotch]

cant afford a house but really want one? move to Detroit

i'd move to detroit.

but the commute to school would take too long.

[Marioo1991]

Stupidity.

Prices will always be higher here than the rest of the country as living here is desirable for both Canadians seeking a better lifestyle/weather, and immigrants choosing Vancouver as the nearest point of entry.

The rest is stupidity.

Lack of education/experience: Most young first time buyers (FTB) I meet in Vancouver have a "get rich quick" opinion of buying real estate. In their adult lives all they've known is the massive run-up from 2002 till now. They've never seen a downturn, or were too young to appreciate it. The downturn in 1994 where prices didn't recover till 2002 (or 2005 if indexed to inflation).

Credit lifestyle:The same FTBs are the first generation of credit, willing to accept paying future debt to acquire possessions now. My parents bought furniture with savings, using a CC or LOC was not the norm as it is now.

Credit has allowed people to buy more and more. Lower rates and longer amortizations means people can afford more, so they'll pay more. Real estate has increased accordingly.

For example:
My $67K salary with few debts in 2003 only allowed me to finance a $220K mortgage over 25 years at 4.3% qualifying with a 40% TDC and 32% GDC and 5% down. So that is the house price I went shopping for.
That same salary would allow me to finance a $350K mortgage over 35 yrs at 3.8% qualifying with a 46% TDC (credit score > 720) and unlimited GDC (credit score > 700) and 5% down.

Effectively the new government rules and rates allowed me to buy > 50% more house. If I was stupid, I would go out and do that without worry that I'll now take 10 more years to pay it off, I'm paying more per month (46% vs 40%) and that my payment will go up significantly in 5 years.

I'll repeat: Stupidity is driving the market.

I agree. People dont really understand the difference between what they can afford vs. what they can get credit to buy.

I know someone who bought a place, and put 0 down, and used the HBP to purchase a car, now that's stupidity.

[Ducdesmo]

I am personally waiting to cash in on other people's mistakes.

[Marioo1991]

I am personally waiting to cash in on other people's mistakes.

Some of the ppl that i know who have dug themselves deep are being rescued by their parents, so they dont really learn.

[Lomac]

Have you ever lived in Vancouver? If you have, will you honestly say you prefer living in Surrey Vs. Vancouver? If so, why?

I lived in Yaletown for a short period of time with a friend of mine and to be perfectly honest, I hated it. I hated looking out the windows and seeing concrete-glass-concrete-concrete-steel-a bit of sky-and more concrete. I grew up in a well-established neighbourhood in South Langley, where I was surrounded by 100+ foot trees, giant lawns, fresh air, and most importantly, privacy even in your own front/backyard. I enjoy being able to go into my backyard, turn on the BBQ and fire up the firepit. I like going into my driveway and working on one of my three cars without having to worry about a Strata Council berating me for doing a simple oil change (much less an entire engine overhaul). Yes, not everything is within walking distance and, yes, it's such an established neighbourhood that the house prices here are starting to rival the more lavish homes in Vancouver, but given the choice between the two locations, I'd choose Langley each and every time.

Living in a shoebox would be okay if you're on your own or living with a girlfriend, but raising a family in one is just far too much. Trust me, I helped my ex through it in a place that's maaaaaybe 700 square feet. Luckily she also has 22 acres to let her kids roam if they get to be too much. And I'll guarantee that anyone who says raising two kids in a typical Vancouver shoebox is absolutely doable has either 1) Never raised a child of their own, or, 2) has the patience of a rock and a will of steel. For 99.9% of the general population, it just wont work.

[Lomac]

The problem with Langley is if you work in vancouver/dt the commute would be horrible. Surrey isnt bad since theres the skytrain, but i know people who spend 3-4 hours/day commuting from Langley to downtown.

I commuted from South Langley to Commercial and Venables for a year. To be honest, it wasn't a bad drive. On average, it was a 45-55 minute commute. The only times it took longer was when there was an accident on a bridge or tunnel.

However, when I took transit for that commute after writing off one of my cars, the amount of time it took jumped to 2.5 hours each way. :\

[amanonfire]

used the HBP to purchase a car, now that's stupidity.
To me, anyone using the HBP for more than just a temporary loan is in trouble.

For example: I get back ~35-40% of what I contribute into my RRSPs. If I took a $25K loan (and had $25K contribution room) I could put $25K into my RRSP and get back a $10K tax return. I could then withdraw the $25K HBP from my RRSP and pay back the loan. Now I have $10K for a few $100 of interest on the loan.

Do this x2 as a couple, and you've got $20K for a downpayment, and you haven't touched your retirement savings. Even at a 30% tax bracket, that's still 2x$7.5K = $15K

There is no reason to delete your retirement for a house.

[Marioo1991]

To me, anyone using the HBP for more than just a temporary loan is in trouble.

For example: I get back ~35-40% of what I contribute into my RRSPs. If I took a $25K loan (and had $25K contribution room) I could put $25K into my RRSP and get back a $10K tax return. I could then withdraw the $25K HBP from my RRSP and pay back the loan. Now I have $10K for a few $100 of interest on the loan.

Do this x2 as a couple, and you've got $20K for a downpayment, and you haven't touched your retirement savings. Even at a 30% tax bracket, that's still 2x$7.5K = $15K

There is no reason to delete your retirement for a house.

I agree. When me and my SO purchased our first place, I had her contribute to her RRSP to the 20k mark, took it out 90 days later, and used the huge refund to put towards the downpayment. I have friends who also bought young who didnt do this, and wish they did.

[falcon]

I honestly believe the best investment you can make today is moving and buying a house in Surrey.

That is probably the last city that has reasonable prices for housing and isn't too far from Vancouver.

And in about 10-15years it's going to be a completely different city imo. If I had a lot of extra cash I would buy a house in Surrey.
And if you want to eventually move back in Van/Burn/Rich the ROI on your Surrey house should appreciate enough that getting a mortgage would be more realistic.

this.

My commute to D/T last year was 40 mins. And I took the skytrain too which make it nice and easy everyday. always on time.

[Ride]

I know someone who bought a place, and put 0 down, and used the HBP to purchase a car, now that's stupidity.

so does he know he has to pay a penalty to CRA or he hasn't figured that part out yet

[falcon]

It is not 30 mins to downtown from Surrey unless you're breaking every traffic law and there's no traffic. 45 mins easy, 60+ in traffic.



No it's not. 30 mins is an easily doable time. #10 to the east west, over oak and down granville.

Working as a delivery driver for 3 years I have spent more time on our local roads than many of you. You can go from west van to richmond/surrey/langley much faster than you think.

[Hondaracer]

^ yeap

fastest i ever made it home from Granville/Helmken is 23 minutes to the port mann at 4 am lol

[Meowjin]

i can do 4 and williams to granville and nelson in 16 minutes.

[ShadowBun]

thats why you gotta try harder

its a dog eat dog society...

[orange7]

thats why you gotta try harder

its a dog eat dog society...

i'd prefer man eat dog society..

yummm

[DsZ24]

I can see it now, in a couple days there will numerous threads in the police section from people asking how to get out of speeding tickets when they tried to beat the times in this thread lol.

[Durrann]

vancouver is so convenient
its the centre of everything

[amanonfire]

No it's not. 30 mins is an easily doable time. #10 to the east west, over oak and down granville.

Working as a delivery driver for 3 years I have spent more time on our local roads than many of you. You can go from west van to richmond/surrey/langley much faster than you think.
Next time you do it post pics of the time you left, and the time you arrive. There is no way to do this in 30 mins without breaking many laws, especially in rush hour traffic.

BTW I want door-to-door time. Sure I might beable to make it from the Surrey bridges to downtown, yet how long did it take to get to the bridge, then how long were you stuck in traffic downtown before getting to your destination.

[amanonfire]

i can do 4 and williams to granville and nelson in 16 minutes.
I've done 4th/Blenheim to No 6/Westminister in 18 mins, yet the stars and moon aligned and I hit every green light. I was also doing 100+ on Oak, 120+ on 99, and 100+ on Westminister and eventually speeding like that will result in a ticket, so I don't do it often.

There's no way to repeat that in rush hour, its ~25 mins usually with light traffic, 35 mins with normal traffic.

[jmvdesign]

No it's not. 30 mins is an easily doable time. #10 to the east west, over oak and down granville.

Working as a delivery driver for 3 years I have spent more time on our local roads than many of you. You can go from west van to richmond/surrey/langley much faster than you think.

yea good luck with that. 4AM? yes. but taking 30 mins to get to and from the municipalities you mentioned is no where near realistic driving during rush hour.

[Marioo1991]

Its so easy to say how long it can take you to get from x to y, but until you actually prove it its all talk.

[Marioo1991]

I've done 4th/Blenheim to No 6/Westminister in 18 mins, yet the stars and moon aligned and I hit every green light. I was also doing 100+ on Oak, 120+ on 99, and 100+ on Westminister and eventually speeding like that will result in a ticket, so I don't do it often.

There's no way to repeat that in rush hour, its ~25 mins usually with light traffic, 35 mins with normal traffic.

I once made it from Kitsilano to Metrotown in 14 minutes, I'm surprised I didnt kill myself

[quasi]

No it's not. 30 mins is an easily doable time. #10 to the east west, over oak and down granville.

Working as a delivery driver for 3 years I have spent more time on our local roads than many of you. You can go from west van to richmond/surrey/langley much faster than you think.

I agree with him. I drive a lot for work, my office is in Surrey and most our site work is in Vancouver. It depends what part of Surrey your in and what time of day but I can get from our office Surrey to downtown in probably 30-35 minutes no problem but I can't do it during rush hour. If it's before 6am or between 10am-2pm no problem at all but my office is right on the border of Surrey and Delta so getting to the Alex Fraser doesn't take long.

[Meowjin]

I've done 4th/Blenheim to No 6/Westminister in 18 mins, yet the stars and moon aligned and I hit every green light. I was also doing 100+ on Oak, 120+ on 99, and 100+ on Westminister and eventually speeding like that will result in a ticket, so I don't do it often.

There's no way to repeat that in rush hour, its ~25 mins usually with light traffic, 35 mins with normal traffic.

well its easy, just stay in the right lane, it always goes faster down oak.

[Marioo1991]

well its easy, just stay in the right lane, it always goes faster down oak.

last time i was on oak i saw some car ripping down the right lane and smoked some car turning left