[sp00n_oo7]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/introduces+drinking+driving+penalties+those+betwee n/2956961/story.html

The B.C. Liberal government introduced new rules for drinking and driving into the House this morning.

Drivers who blow above 0.08 will face a 90-day suspension and a $500 fine. As well, they will have their vehicle impounded for 30 days and may also face criminal charges.

Those who are between 0.05 and 0.08 will get a three-day ban and a $200 fine for a first offense.

Penalties in this range increase with subsequent offenses.

Solicitor-General Michael de Jong said the new rules, to come into effect in the fall, will give B.C. Canada's most immediate and severe impaired driving penalties.

"Despite increased enforcement and significant efforts to promote awareness, we've begun to see a rise in impaired driving across British Columbia," said de Jong. "That trend is unacceptable and that's why we're bringing in these new laws: to get impaired drivers off the road with clear, swift and severe penalties."

In addition, drivers who blow once in the "fail" range (above 0.08 per cent BAC), or three times within five years in the "warn" range (between 0.05 and 0.08 per cent BAC), will be required to take part in the rehabilitative Responsible Driver Program. They must also for one year use an ignition interlock device, which tests a driver's breath for alcohol every time they operate their vehicle.

[vafanculo]

Sounds good to me. What happens under current law if someone blows over for first time?

I wish along with the 90 day suspension they get jail time
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

roughly how many beer get you to blow 0.08?

and 0.05?

[penner2k]

Sounds good to me. What happens under current law if someone blows over for first time?

I wish along with the 90 day suspension they get jail time
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Right now if you blow between .05 and .08 you could get a 24 hour.

[penner2k]

roughly how many beer get you to blow 0.08?

and 0.05?

http://www.thespec.com/article/590648

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

interestn article

[The_AK]

Where can i actually GET a Breathalyzer? I'm a pretty big guy but I'm always concerned after having one beer and heading home.

[Great68]

Why do they complicate it by introducing two different limits, separated by less than half the difference.

How many people can tell the difference whether they're 0.05 or 0.08?

Just make the limit 0.05 period, and be done with it.

[unit]

agreed.

you know whats gonna happen, 3 years later they're gonna change it to .05 as the max limit, and introduce a new law that starts at .03

[bengy]

meanwhile you can take whatever prescription drugs you want and drive with no penalty.

[Mizter]

Where can i actually GET a Breathalyzer? I'm a pretty big guy but I'm always concerned after having one beer and heading home.

I've seen a few on Amazon but I'm not sure about its accuracy.

[q0192837465]

Good job, we should ahve done this 5 years ago. But still props for trying to make our roads safer (and more money to the government)

[taylor192]

Why do they complicate it by introducing two different limits, separated by less than half the difference.

How many people can tell the difference whether they're 0.05 or 0.08?

Just make the limit 0.05 period, and be done with it.

No.

If you're not going to allow for some sort of warning, then make the limit 0. That way there is no second guessing, if you've had a drink, you're over.

I agree with the warning and the increasing punishments for future warnings, cause if you don't learn after the first time, you deserve a bigger penalty.

[Mananetwork]

agreed.

you know whats gonna happen, 3 years later they're gonna change it to .05 as the max limit, and introduce a new law that starts at .03

And a year after that 0.01, which would get you caught for second hand drinking :haha:

[InvisibleSoul]

Better not use Listerine before driving!

[Bouncing Bettys]

stiffer penalties won't keep people from drinking and driving much like stiffer laws like the death penalty don't reduce crime. polititians and off duty cops are still going to drink and drive and still get away with it. our asshole premier is a known drunk driver afterall.

[taylor192]

Here's a hint that the officers on here can verify:

The breathalyzers in the vehicles do not work well if you've just had a drink. They'll register a higher value cause of the recent booze in your mouth. Thus if you're ever worried about blowing over, mention you just had a drink and they'll give you a 15 min grace period.

I don't condone drinking and driving, yet we all make stupid decisions sometimes. I had to do this once, blew a 0.03 after having a drink right before driving. Not smart, yet I'm 6'2" and 225 lbs, so one beer shouldn't even push me over 0.05.

[taylor192]

stiffer penalties won't keep people from drinking and driving much like stiffer laws like the death penalty don't reduce crime.
It will reduce repeat offenders. Ask any parole officer how may of their cases are repeat offenders - just dealing with them would drop the stats significantly.

[dinamix]

the real problem is the repeat offenders. alcoholism is a mental disorder. they should put more money into rehab and treatment.

if you can afford to have more than 5 drinks at a bar downtown you can afford to cab home. dont be a cheap ass. downtown condo FTW.
..
ill stick to my mdma.its cheaper and cleaner

[Synarchist]

zellers has those keychain testers for 20 bux and it works pretty accurately

[hchang]

http://thetyee.ca/2003/12/19/CampbellMugShot2b.jpg

[penner2k]

I'd rather do MDMA. its cleaner and cheaper

if you can afford to have more than 5 drinks at a bar downtown you can afford to cab home. dont be a cheap ass. downtown condo FTW.

A better thing would be for them to actually have transit running till a decent time.
It doesnt make any sense that bars close at 3 yet the skytrain stops running at 1:15. Who really wants to leave at 1 already.

[dinamix]

meet officer peter hodson, lol

http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00610/hodson1_jpg_6027_610181gm-a.jpg

2008:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/11/24/bc-vancouver-officer-charged.html

2010:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-officer-plans-to-plead-not-guilty/article1543471/

[RiceIntegraRS]

the real problem is the repeat offenders. alcoholism is a mental disorder. they should put more money into rehab and treatment.

if you can afford to have more than 5 drinks at a bar downtown you can afford to cab home. dont be a cheap ass. downtown condo FTW.
..
ill stick to my mdma.its cheaper and cleaner

i actually tried going clubbing. went to the club by skytrain, and after the club........ i had to wait 2-3 hours to find a cab. Last time i ever tried doing that. Its not only expensive but also inconvient to take a cab in Vancouver.

zellers has those keychain testers for 20 bux and it works pretty accurately

my friend actually had something similiar where it actually gave u a reading. I dont think its that accurate cause me and my friends were playing a game "Who can blow the highest reading" and from 10-15 drinks it blew the same and another 5 more drinks still the same.

[SpuGen]

my friend actually had something similiar where it actually gave u a reading. I dont think its that accurate cause me and my friends were playing a game "Who can blow the highest reading" and from 10-15 drinks it blew the same and another 5 more drinks still the same.

I have one of these things sitting on my desk right now.

I tried my best during thanksgiving to make it blow over .20, but I got nothing.
I had a really nice sleep afterwards though.

Also, the breathalyzer only shows WARN and FAIL. and the WARN could be anywhere from 0-0.10. Fail is anything higher than that. So this new limit will pretty much fuck ALOT of people over for even having a beer with thier dinner. That little 0.02 in between is whats going to tell you if the cop thinks you're pretty or not.

[CP.AR]

http://thetyee.ca/2003/12/19/CampbellMugShot2b.jpg

I've always wondered if he was laughing cause he was so drunk, or was he actually doing the "oh shit how am I gonna get outta this mess" kind of laugh

[tegz]

Where can i actually GET a Breathalyzer? I'm a pretty big guy but I'm always concerned after having one beer and heading home.

Just make sure u give urself a couple hrs to sober out before u drive..

From my experience last month.. after 7 shots of hard n 2 beers which was 3 hours before I touched the wheel, I blew a 0.036 and was good to go after blowing during a road stop on the way home.

[aznrsx1979]

It's gonna cost quite a bit for one offense. On the news it said the total will come up to $3750 after you take in all the fees.

Taken long enough, this should deter people from drinking and driving.

[twitchyzero]

http://thetyee.ca/2003/12/19/CampbellMugShot2b.jpg

the irony is that his gov't will put this penalty forward

[jigga250]

IMO they should be targeting the repeat offenders who blow twice the legal limit, not the guy stopping in for a beer on his way home from work. Thats not the guy who blows through a red and takes out a family.

[InvisibleSoul]

It's gonna cost quite a bit for one offense. On the news it said the total will come up to $3750 after you take in all the fees.

Taken long enough, this should deter people from drinking and driving.

Anyone recording a .08 blood alcohol level on a Breathalyzer will face a:

$500 administrative penalty.
$250 licence reinstatement fee.
$700 bill for towing and vehicle impoundment.
Mandatory participation in an $800 drivers program.
$1,420 bill for one year's use of an ignition interlock device once they start driving again.
The total cost would be $3,670.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/04/28/bc-impaired-driving-laws-legal-rights.html

OUCH.

[Greenstoner]

Anyone recording a .08 blood alcohol level on a Breathalyzer will face a:

$500 administrative penalty.
$250 licence reinstatement fee.
$700 bill for towing and vehicle impoundment.
Mandatory participation in an $800 drivers program.
$1,420 bill for one year's use of an ignition interlock device once they start driving again.
The total cost would be $3,670.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/04/28/bc-impaired-driving-laws-legal-rights.html

OUCH.

wow

close to 4 g, i might as well drink at home and phone up some escort and stripers lol

drink and drive is bad. Period !!

[quasi]

Anyone recording a .08 blood alcohol level on a Breathalyzer will face a:

$500 administrative penalty.
$250 licence reinstatement fee.
$700 bill for towing and vehicle impoundment.
Mandatory participation in an $800 drivers program.
$1,420 bill for one year's use of an ignition interlock device once they start driving again.
The total cost would be $3,670.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/04/28/bc-impaired-driving-laws-legal-rights.html

OUCH.

Expensive but those who are dumb enough to drink and drive with this type of deterrent deserve everything they get.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Anyone recording a .08 blood alcohol level on a Breathalyzer will face a:

$500 administrative penalty.
$250 licence reinstatement fee.
$700 bill for towing and vehicle impoundment.
Mandatory participation in an $800 drivers program.
$1,420 bill for one year's use of an ignition interlock device once they start driving again.
The total cost would be $3,670.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/04/28/bc-impaired-driving-laws-legal-rights.html

OUCH.

$700 for towing and impoundment?

ughh.....kinda expensive?

[Soundy]

Why do they complicate it by introducing two different limits, separated by less than half the difference.

How many people can tell the difference whether they're 0.05 or 0.08?

Just make the limit 0.05 period, and be done with it.

They're not "introducing" two separate limits.

0.08 is a federal limit under the Criminal Code of Canada.

0.05 is a provincial limit under the Motor Vehicle Act and has been in place for years.

You people watch too much TV.

[bloodmack]

I don't get why they introduced this warning system. Considering when I get warnings from cops when I get pulled over for speeding etc. I expect no fine or points. Their just doing this to cover up the HST. The reason they have a limit and not zero tolerance is because people have different tolerances based on weight and what not. I know that my driving isn't impaired until at least 3 - 5 beers. 0.05 is pretty much no alcholic drink at all mabye half a glass of wine but thats about it. And even though some of you are saying good for them your obviously blind to the fact that they're just doing it for extra money.

[Soundy]

Anyone recording a .08 blood alcohol level on a Breathalyzer will face a:

$500 administrative penalty.
$250 licence reinstatement fee.
$700 bill for towing and vehicle impoundment.
Mandatory participation in an $800 drivers program.
$1,420 bill for one year's use of an ignition interlock device once they start driving again.
The total cost would be $3,670.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/04/28/bc-impaired-driving-laws-legal-rights.html

OUCH.
.08 is also a potential CRIMINAL OFFENSE. A criminal conviction can prevent you from crossing the border, from getting a lot of jobs... etc.

[Soundy]

And even though some of you are saying good for them your obviously blind to the fact that they're just doing it for extra money.

Wow, that fails so hard, it's off the scale.

Pssst... you really wanna stick it to the man? Screw the cops out of their ripoff money? DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE. That'll show them!

[threezero]

A better thing would be for them to actually have transit running till a decent time.
It doesnt make any sense that bars close at 3 yet the skytrain stops running at 1:15. Who really wants to leave at 1 already.

said it so many times already and it so true. No everybody goes clubbin with a big group of people with desinated drivers. Cab fee in Van is so expensive and its such a hassle honestly its reserve for people living close to dt core or for the ballers/group of friends living in the same area.

For the habitual clubber that goes either by himself or with a buddy, the whole spent a bill or 2 at the clubs for drink and than half a bill to get home while waiting for 30 mins for cabs get tire real quick. Than he is going to risk it once and drive home drunk, chance are he won't get caught. Than he will risk doing it again. The more he doesn't get caught the more invincible he feels.

Honestly I hope all the income from charging drunk people goes to getting skytrain to close just 2-3 hrs later. Would make a hell of a difference. Hell I would even start clubbin again in vancouver.

[bloodmack]

Wow, that fails so hard, it's off the scale.

Pssst... you really wanna stick it to the man? Screw the cops out of their ripoff money? DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE. That'll show them!

They shouldnt have to implement such a ridiculous system, but they will, because they know it will increase the size of their wallets. I don't drink and drive and I'm not defending drunk drivers. A harsher penalty was introduced and now their just implementing this warning system for an extra buck. My post wasn't a fail, its the truth.

[LiquidTurbo]

It's about time.

[penner2k]

said it so many times already and it so true. No everybody goes clubbin with a big group of people with desinated drivers. Cab fee in Van is so expensive and its such a hassle honestly its reserve for people living close to dt core or for the ballers/group of friends living in the same area.

For the habitual clubber that goes either by himself or with a buddy, the whole spent a bill or 2 at the clubs for drink and than half a bill to get home while waiting for 30 mins for cabs get tire real quick. Than he is going to risk it once and drive home drunk, chance are he won't get caught. Than he will risk doing it again. The more he doesn't get caught the more invincible he feels.

Honestly I hope all the income from charging drunk people goes to getting skytrain to close just 2-3 hrs later. Would make a hell of a difference. Hell I would even start clubbin again in vancouver.

I've gone out a couple times not really expecting to drink and ended up having friends buying shots and drinks for me. End of the night I'd think I was fine but once I actually started driving I would realize I wasnt. The problem is if I leave my car downtown it will get towed in the morning so not only am I having to pay towing fees but also a $70 cab ride home. If the skytrain had been running late I wouldnt have ever even drove downtown in the first place since once you factor in gas and parking the skytrain would be cheaper...
I'm not trying to say it wasnt my fault for being dumb and driving anyways since it was. But the system they have in place right now is really dumb.

[RiceIntegraRS]

I dont know how many drinks it really takes to blow over .05 im assuming its not that much i know a couple people that blew over and they told me they barely drank at all. I dont like this blood alchohol level bs, cause theres people that can handle 10 drinks and not feel a thing, where theres others will drink one and there already tipsy. If we actually didnt have asshole for cops id say it should be at the Officers discretion to deem a person too drunk to drive or needs a warning. I totally agree with Bloodmack that this is just a cash grab.

I think this situation is kinda similiar to our speeding laws. Where if ur caught speeding 3 times in 3 years u have to pay $1000. If we had speed limits that actually made sense here, id be all for it. So i say raise the speed limit with that penalty and raise the blood alchohol level with a stiffer penalty.

[BlackV62K2]

When I was living in Stockholm, the trains there operate the same hours as the Skytrain here during the weekday but on weekends it's open 24 hours. I wish it was the same here.

[ninjatune]

It's hard for officers to use discretion with impaired driving... If a member thinks you are still okay to drive, and you end up hitting somebody, guess who gets sued? The police department. It creates way too many liability problems for the individual officer too. Police Act charges for neglect of duty, civil action against the officer, civil action against the department etc... doesn't sound like much fun.

The discretion should be made by the indiviual consuming the drinks in the first place.

[Harvey Specter]

About time if you ask me.

[XtC-604]

ah i can imagine already, light weight guy eats a whole bunch of brandy filled chocolates

[ninjatune]

ah i can imagine already, light weight guy eats a whole bunch of brandy filled chocolates

The limit under the BC MVAct has always been .05 so that hasnt changed... It's just the penalties.

[hotjoint]

About time if you ask me.

Yup. I know tons of people who drink and drive. I refuse to get into the car with them. My one buddy always brags how he can drive so much better when he's stoned. Being able to drive when you're impaired is nothing to be proud of.

[MR_BIGGS]

They have a real opportunity to increase public safety here, but they have to give the public options.

Have the skytrains running later from Thursday-Sunday, more latenight bus service etc.

[taylor192]

I dont know how many drinks it really takes to blow over .05 im assuming its not that much i know a couple people that blew over and they told me they barely drank at all. I dont like this blood alchohol level bs, cause theres people that can handle 10 drinks and not feel a thing, where theres others will drink one and there already tipsy.
Please stop driving. You're not intelligent enough to be behind the wheel.

The rule of thumb (ROT) is 1 drink takes 1 hour to work its way through the body. Adjust accordingly if you're a small or large person.

Anyone that has 10 drinks is impaired, whether they feel it or not is just how used they are too being that drunk that often.

[taylor192]

They have a real opportunity to increase public safety here, but they have to give the public options.

Have the skytrains running later from Thursday-Sunday, more latenight bus service etc.

There are already options:
- designated driver
- cab
- do not drink

[taylor192]

I've gone out a couple times not really expecting to drink and ended up having friends buying shots and drinks for me. End of the night I'd think I was fine but once I actually started driving I would realize I wasnt. The problem is if I leave my car downtown it will get towed in the morning so not only am I having to pay towing fees but also a $70 cab ride home. If the skytrain had been running late I wouldnt have ever even drove downtown in the first place since once you factor in gas and parking the skytrain would be cheaper...
I'm not trying to say it wasnt my fault for being dumb and driving anyways since it was. But the system they have in place right now is really dumb.
The system is not dumb, you are.

It is not that hard to say 'no' to a few drinks and shots. Or to say "hold on" and go move your car to a lot with overnight parking allowed.

When I know there is even a remote possibility I will be drinking, I leave the car in a lot where it will not be towed.

[fatal]

the cab business is gonna be booming in vancouver

[threezero]

The system is not dumb, you are.

It is not that hard to say 'no' to a few drinks and shots. Or to say "hold on" and go move your car to a lot with overnight parking allowed.

When I know there is even a remote possibility I will be drinking, I leave the car in a lot where it will not be towed.

still doesn't solve the $$$$ charge for parking your car over night and than the 70$ cab ride home.

But i guess that is my fault because i'm poor?

to many is going to people risk it, because in their mind (drunk mind) more sensible than paying $100 to store their car + get home.

compare to say $15 to store your car and $3 transit to get home?????

now if the whole world is is sensible and socially responsible as taylor, we wouldn't have this law in the first place.

[Soundy]

I dont know how many drinks it really takes to blow over .05 im assuming its not that much i know a couple people that blew over and they told me they barely drank at all. I dont like this blood alchohol level bs, cause theres people that can handle 10 drinks and not feel a thing, where theres others will drink one and there already tipsy.

You obviously don't have a clue how the limits work (but don't feel bad, most people here are equally clueless). Yes, it's true, one drink can affect some people more than ten can affect someone else... that's because people of different weights and different metabolisms process the alcohol differently, and why they can't make a law specifying the number of drinks. Blood Alcohol Content, however, is an absolute measurement of the percentage of alcohol to blood. Different types of alcohol, different consumption rates, different body types, different amounts of food eaten while drinking can all have an effect on how impaired you are, but however you get to that 0.05% or 0.08%, once you're there, you're roughly the same level of drunk.

So would you prefer if they did away with "this blood alcohol level bs" and just made one drink the legal limit? Would that be more fair?

I totally agree with Bloodmack that this is just a cash grab.

This is the most fucking ignorant statement ever.

A "cash grab" is the city raking up your property taxes, TransLink jacking up SkyTrain fares, a town built entirely around toll bridges with no free alternatives.

You don't want to pay out to this "cash grab"... DON'T DRIVE AFTER YOU'VE HAD ANY ALCOHOL. Pretty fucking simple math, even a first-grader could figure that one out.

Obviously the laws we've had so far haven't been working that well. Look at some of the posts here in the Police Forum - even taking away some people's licenses doesn't stop them from driving. Getting downright medieval with the hit to the wallet is the only way some people will learn.

[_Hotsauce_]

I don't get why they introduced this warning system. Considering when I get warnings from cops when I get pulled over for speeding etc. I expect no fine or points. Their just doing this to cover up the HST. The reason they have a limit and not zero tolerance is because people have different tolerances based on weight and what not. I know that my driving isn't impaired until at least 3 - 5 beers. 0.05 is pretty much no alcholic drink at all mabye half a glass of wine but thats about it. And even though some of you are saying good for them your obviously blind to the fact that they're just doing it for extra money.

One drink is one to many.

[Qmx323]

I say skytrain runs for 24 hours on weekends, and bump up fares for weekends.

People are going to break the law, its human nature. You can't expect every single club goer in Vancouver, especially here because of the demographics (18-24) to obey the law of no driving after drinking, even knowing these stiff consequences.

Yes I can admit I have driven under the influence a few times (thank god I didn't hurt anybody), and I don't plan on driving under the influence ever anymore.

All I'm saying is the City of Vancouver should make it easier for people who do decide to drink outside the confines of their home, to get home easier by running the skytrain 24/7 with a looser schedule after 1am (such as one train every 20 mins instead of 10 or 5, whatever it is now), or just 24 hours on a weekend.

and btw Soundy, they did raise transit fees because of some transit tax raise. Month passes and FareSavers cost about 10% more. Although they say its to "maintain" higher standards of roads and transit systems.

[taylor192]

still doesn't solve the $$$$ charge for parking your car over night and than the 70$ cab ride home.

But i guess that is my fault because i'm poor?
You gotta pay to play. If I'm out drinking I'll easily drop $100/night on food and drinks, I'm sure you're no better.

to many is going to people risk it, because in their mind (drunk mind) more sensible than paying $100 to store their car + get home.
and they will possibly pay $1000s in fines when eventually caught. Plus if you had an accident while drunk, your insurance is null and void. You could even be on the hook for millions in liability.

now if the whole world is is sensible and socially responsible as taylor, we wouldn't have this law in the first place.
Hopefully you'll become more responsible as you get older, as I have.

I was 16, driving with a case of beer inbetween the rear seats and joking about the DDD (designated drunk driver). I even grew up in a small country town where losing classmates to drunk driving was the norm and wasn't really a big deal.

I'm smarter now, and hopefully others will be smarter too.

[taylor192]

One drink is one to many.
In Russia the law is 0. This would be easier to enforce.

[bloodmack]

One drink is one to many.

Then why don't they have a zero tolerance for all drivers?

@soundy How is he being ignorant if he thinks the gov't is just doing for the extra money?.. Look at our gov't their still taxing us for the world war which was how many years ago? You keep saying that we should stop drinking and driving if we dont want them to make money from this. Guess what bud, I don't drink and drive, and I am only one person. If anything your the one whose ignorant about our gov't and their quick cash schemes.

[BlackV62K2]

I've been denied by cab drivers in DT to take me back to Surrey lol. No I wasn't piss drunk or anything. Guess they just didn't want to drive all the way to Surrey.

[Great68]

I've been denied by cab drivers in DT to take me back to Surrey lol. No I wasn't piss drunk or anything. Guess they just didn't want to drive all the way to Surrey.

That's a good point. Even if you are responsible and plan ahead to take a cab, you can still be screwed.

I had a party and tried to get a cab to pick up my buddy and his girlfriend to take them home at around 1:00am. After calling a couple cab companies twice, and waiting almost an hour NO FUCKING CABS SHOWED UP. I felt bad, they ended up walking home.

It's easy to legislate these "Get Tough" laws, but somehow they never think about making it easier for the public to comply with the laws.

Running transit late would be a MASSIVE help.

[7seven]

I've been denied by cab drivers in DT to take me back to Surrey lol. No I wasn't piss drunk or anything. Guess they just didn't want to drive all the way to Surrey.

That actually happens a lot. I've personally heard many stories of cabbies refusing to take fares from downtown Vancouver to Burnaby and Surrey from friends. I believe CTV news actually did an undercover story on this awhile back too.

[Soundy]

In Russia the law is 0. This would be easier to enforce.

And in some countries, the penalty for DWI is death by firing squad... so yeah, suddenly BC's laws don't see so bad (especially since a good coffin will run you $8k or more).

[Soundy]

@soundy How is he being ignorant if he thinks the gov't is just doing for the extra money?.. Look at our gov't their still taxing us for the world war which was how many years ago? You keep saying that we should stop drinking and driving if we dont want them to make money from this. Guess what bud, I don't drink and drive, and I am only one person. If anything your the one whose ignorant about our gov't and their quick cash schemes.

Because "cash grab" is the first thing people cry when they find out they're going to have to pay for breaking the law. It's an ignorant, self-centered, self-righteous frame of mind. Don't break the law, and it won't matter how stiff the penalties, right?

If the previous penalties were "sufficient" there'd be no more drinking and driving now (aside from the few chronics). Obviously they weren't sufficient. And if the new penalties aren't enough of a deterrent, guess what? They'll get even stiffer. Here are some suggestions:

http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/drinking-and-driving-the-laws-in/
Other countries have different laws than the US. Some are more lenient and some are harsher. In Australia, the blood alcohol content is .05, and lower (.02) for new drivers and those with learner’s permits. The punishment for drinking and driving in Australia includes fines, suspension of license, imprisonment, and medical assessment before a driver’s license is reinstated.

In some countries, drinking and driving is punishable by death. A first time offense in El Salvador leads to execution by firing squad, while a second offense in Bulgaria also leads to execution.

In France, drinking and driving is punishable by the equivalent of a $1,000 fine, imprisonment for one year, and loss of license for three years. Finland and Sweden automatically sentence drunk drivers to one-year jail sentences including hard labor. In Norway, a drunk driver is jailed for three weeks with hard labor and loses their license for a year. If they do it again, they lose their license forever. In South Africa, drinking and driving results in a ten-year prison sentence or the equivalent of a $10,000 fine and, in some cases, both.

...

In England, a drunk driver pays the equivalent of a $250 fine, spends a year in jail, and then loses their license for one year. In Russia, drunk drivers simply lose their license for life. Yes, even Russia has laws against drinking and driving.

Some countries are more creative in their attempts to keep the inebriated off the road. Turkey, for example, punishes drunk drivers by taking them 20 miles from their town and making them walk back with a police escort. In Poland, drunk drivers are subject to jail, fine, and even worse, mandatory attendance at political lectures. In Malaya, if a man is caught driving drunk he is jailed. If he is married, his wife is jailed, too. In Costa Rica, the license plates are removed immediately from the cars of those who drink and drive.

[threezero]

You gotta pay to play. If I'm out drinking I'll easily drop $100/night on food and drinks, I'm sure you're no better.


and they will possibly pay $1000s in fines when eventually caught. Plus if you had an accident while drunk, your insurance is null and void. You could even be on the hook for millions in liability.


Hopefully you'll become more responsible as you get older, as I have.

I was 16, driving with a case of beer inbetween the rear seats and joking about the DDD (designated drunk driver). I even grew up in a small country town where losing classmates to drunk driving was the norm and wasn't really a big deal.

I'm smarter now, and hopefully others will be smarter too.

I understand where you are getting at. I admit in the pass I have driven drunk before, I'm alot more sensible now the result is I havn't gone out clubbin in vancouver for more than 2 yrs now. Spending $100 on drink and $100 to get home just to grind on sum slutty chicks is not my cup of tea anymore, I have a billion other places to spent the $200. The ones driving drunk are not the ones who is going to be drunk sitting on the sidewalk and having a mental debate of cause and consequence.

It's easy to legislate these "Get Tough" laws, but somehow they never think about making it easier for the public to comply with the laws.

^^ sums it up.

People above have made suggestion on keeping the train running on certain days and/or adjusting the time between each train, even raising transit price pass 12am is a good way to go than not having this option at all.

If harsh punishment is all that is needed to slap sum senses into ppl, countries with death penalty like China wouldn't have any murderers. All it does it scare the sensible and honest ppl into not commiting the crime, but they wouldn't commit it in the first place even if the law isn't so harsh.

[Soundy]

If anything your the one whose ignorant about our gov't and their quick cash schemes.

Oh, and by the way, here's where this theory falls on its face: if this actually works and EVERYONE stops drinking and driving... the revenue dries up completely. What sort of "quick cash scheme" is that?

If it was all about the quick cash, DWI offenses wouldn't involve any jail time, any license suspension, any vehicle impoundment... it would be only the fines...and small fines at that. You get stopped, you blow over .08, you pay maybe $250, and go on your way... price of an evening's fun, right? Then everyone would be getting loaded and driving home, and the gov't would just rake it in!

Now, try to engage your brain before participating again, mmkay? :thumbsup:

[taylor192]

@soundy How is he being ignorant if he thinks the gov't is just doing for the extra money?
Cause if he knew the policing, court, and legal costs for prosecuting a DUI he would know it is a money losing venture.

[Soundy]

It's easy to legislate these "Get Tough" laws, but somehow they never think about making it easier for the public to comply with the laws.

Running transit late would be a MASSIVE help.


^^ sums it up.

People above have made suggestion on keeping the train running on certain days and/or adjusting the time between each train, even raising transit price pass 12am is a good way to go than not having this option at all.

The problem is, things like running SkyTrain late and cabbies not running to the 'burbs aren't under the cops' control, and aren't legislated by government. So why blame the cops, or the gov't for making the tougher laws? Are they supposed to just sit back and leave things going the way they are and not enact tougher laws, waiting until TransLink and the cab companies shape up?

How would that sound? "Yeah, drinking and driving is a big problem and the penalties aren't working, so we want to make the laws tougher... but we're going to wait until the cab companies decide to actually take people to the burbs and TransLink decides to run the SkyTrain past 1am... so for now, people will have to keep dying."

And how does any of this have anything to do with areas outside the GVRD? BC is a lot bigger place than just the area between Aldergrove and UBC. How about, the new laws take effect in Chilliwack, but not in Kits, until SkyTrain is 24/7?

Fuck, you people have the most discombobulated logic ever.

If harsh punishment is all that is needed to slap sum senses into ppl, countries with death penalty like China wouldn't have any murderers. All it does it scare the sensible and honest ppl into not commiting the crime, but they wouldn't commit it in the first place even if the law isn't so harsh.

Wow... what?? So you're saying, if there were no laws against murdering people, then nobody would get murdered? WTF?

[bloodmack]

Oh, and by the way, here's where this theory falls on its face: if this actually works and EVERYONE stops drinking and driving... the revenue dries up completely. What sort of "quick cash scheme" is that?

If it was all about the quick cash, DWI offenses wouldn't involve any jail time, any license suspension, any vehicle impoundment... it would be only the fines.

Now, try to engage your brain before participating again, mmkay? :thumbsup:

Thats a big if. Its just like that speed camera thing(I cant remember what exactly it was) they tried to enforce a long ways back, they spent millions to put them up and everyone stopped speeding. The difference here is speeding isn't an addiction like drinking, many people are alcoholics and don't even know it. If drinking wasn't an addiction then fine, I understand. But it is and they know it.

Instead of ticketing and throwing them in jail. How about they use that money they just took from them and invest it into some AA classes, and force them to take it. If you aren't deemed responsible enough to have a license after that (from a 3rd party source) then you cant drive until then.

FYI Soundy, most people who live on vancouver side of the bridge dont even know the rest of BC exists, at least thats what most of them show when I tell them I come from abbotsford. SkyTrain will never come out this far because Translink has no power up here. Unless the company that runs transit up here is a sub company of translink.

[threezero]

^^ there will never be any society with no laws against the most basic things like not stealing and no murders. I'm pretty sure ever since caveman times there are primitive laws for murders. Even without governmental laws against it there is still religious laws. What I'm saying is laws like this work on the principle of deterrence and general deterrence doesn't always work.

Would be an interesting social experiment to have a society with no laws against murder, but thats never going to happen lol

[Greenstoner]

my buddy total his car drunk driving with a semi and license suspsend for 6 or 9 months. He was lucky that he didnt even got any injury.

anywas, now he takes bus to everywhere, lesson learned.

[Soundy]

FYI Soundy, most people who live on vancouver side of the bridge dont even know the rest of BC exists, at least thats what most of them show when I tell them I come from abbotsford. SkyTrain will never come out this far because Translink has no power up here. Unless the company that runs transit up here is a sub company of translink.

That's what I'm saying: what's the point of whining that "oooh, they shouldn't make such tough laws when the SkyTrain doesn't run late enough to be an option" when SkyTrain (and much of transit in general) only applies to such a small percentage of the problem?

[Soundy]

http://www.revscene.net/forums/drivesmartbc-impaired-before-t613388.html

[gilllgamesh]

Its not over yet. That's why I'm all for good ID and a true sobriety test.
This is a real tough one.
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[gilllgamesh]

Btw. Slamming the brake at 45 should be under 2 car lengths.
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[welfare]

i think part of the problem is the margin, which after a drink or two can become lost in perception. i mean, it is the desired effect. to remove consequence and cloud judgment. i dunno. maybe just make the limit 0. get rid of the gray area.
sounds harsh, i know. but so is the aftermath of this problem

[zulutango]

[QUOTE=taylor192;6927669]Here's a hint that the officers on here can verify:

The breathalyzers in the vehicles do not work well if you've just had a drink. They'll register a higher value cause of the recent booze in your mouth. Thus if you're ever worried about blowing over, mention you just had a drink and they'll give you a 15 min grace period.


If the driver admits to consuming I always ask them how long it has been since their last drink. If it's less than 15 minutes, we wait. To blow sooner could give an artificially high reading. In practical terms it's gone in about 5 minutes. You will be under observation in the PC while waiting so that you do not take anything that could influence the readings. Alcohol based mouthwash is used in training to give a fake "fail" reading but in a couple of minutes it's back to normal. I don't want to waste my time or yours. It's to your advantage to tell the truth and not waste a couple of hours back at the Cop shop and have your car towed & impounded.

[Soundy]

Hey zulu, are blood tests taken to confirm breathalyzer readings as well?

If so, seems to me that slugging a quick one to screw up the breathalyzer, would come back to bite you if you have to give a blood sample later, when THAT extra alcohol has had time to work its way into your system...

[zulutango]

Not in Canada. I did a ridealong in New Zealand with buddies there and a DWI gets 1 sample on the datamaster and 1 blood sample taken by a qualified person at the Cop shop. Sure gets rid of all the lawyer stuff. If you have a DL there you must agree to random breath testing...don't agree, no problem, no DL. US, Australia, Europe,...most other countries have the same condition. Sure cuts thru all the bs we have to wade thru here in Canada.

[Tegra_Devil]

i fully respect the new penalties...hopefully it leads to less innocent people that have to be scraped off the street

[What_the?]

Please stop driving. You're not intelligent enough to be behind the wheel.

The rule of thumb (ROT) is 1 drink takes 1 hour to work its way through the body. Adjust accordingly if you're a small or large person.

Anyone that has 10 drinks is impaired, whether they feel it or not is just how used they are too being that drunk that often.


My 2 cents on this one... rule of thumb should actually be more like it takes 2 hours for the drink to fully work it's way out of your system. As a very broad generalization, you're looking at a drink raising your blood alcohol level to 0.03, and your body can breakdown about 0.015 per hour...

Again, this is highly dependent on the person, their genetic makeup, the drink, size of drink, etc...

[underscore]

Sorry I'm not familiar with downtown Van but aren't there any cheapish hotels/motels/whatever down there? Drive down, split one of those with a few people and you get a place to crash plus a place to park your car.

Personally I like all this new stuff, I have a few friends who drink and drive quite often and it pisses me off to no end as I've seen the bad results of drinking and driving several times. Maybe telling them it's gonna run them $4k if they get caught will wise them up.

I've gone out a couple times not really expecting to drink and ended up having friends buying shots and drinks for me. End of the night I'd think I was fine but once I actually started driving I would realize I wasnt. The problem is if I leave my car downtown it will get towed in the morning so not only am I having to pay towing fees but also a $70 cab ride home. If the skytrain had been running late I wouldnt have ever even drove downtown in the first place since once you factor in gas and parking the skytrain would be cheaper...
I'm not trying to say it wasnt my fault for being dumb and driving anyways since it was. But the system they have in place right now is really dumb.

The key is to turn down the free drinks because you're driving... I do it quite often cause I seem to always end up the DD :cry:

[mkchoi0801]

For fuck's sakes, the more I read on this forum, the more ridiculous it gets.
All people argued here was the fact that we have crappy transit system after-hours. I'm certain most, if not all, agree to this.
Yet some of you ignorant fuckers are too ignorant and are tackling them for whatever reason, you have yet to argue back. The correct way to argue back is saying that we actually have a reasonable system if you haven't noticed. WHICH YOU HAVE NOT.
Let's face it, we're all humans prone to mistakes. We all like to have a drink with friends and all. But oh no, there are no buses or skytrains. Not to mention my house is an hour walk from the nearest bus stop anyways. I don't see any taxis, but it'll cost me $100 to get home. Wheee how convenient is that?
And to that guy that mentioned a country with death penalty for DUI. FUCK YOU, you can go live in that shit hole of a country, let me guess, is it some random third world country? DING DONG.
You can keep wishing that harsher penalties will reduce DUI, but psychology taught us that if we get a ticket for speeding, we don't learn to stop speeding, instead we learn where not to speed. So unless you have this plan to change the human nature, don't argue that this isn't a huge cash grab.
/rant

[aznrsx1979]

I'm all for these tougher penalties. Whatever it takes to get idiots who think they can handle it.

Before I turned 21, I'd known 3 guys killed by drunk drivers and no they weren't the ones that were drunk. 1 guy was waiting for a bus and the other 2 guys were killed by drunk drivers crossing over the median and going into oncoming traffic.

[q0192837465]

I dun drink, so I couldnt care less about stiffer penalties. lol

[Soundy]

I'm all for these tougher penalties. Whatever it takes to get idiots who think they can handle it.

Before I turned 21, I'd known 3 guys killed by drunk drivers and no they weren't the ones that were drunk. 1 guy was waiting for a bus and the other 2 guys were killed by drunk drivers crossing over the median and going into oncoming traffic.

When I was in high school (more years about than I want to admit), I knew plenty of kids and their families who were injured or killed by drunk drivers... sometimes themselves, sometimes others. My brother's best friend in high school was killed when a drunk crossed the center line and hit him on his bike. So yeah, I agree with you.

You can keep wishing that harsher penalties will reduce DUI, but psychology taught us that if we get a ticket for speeding, we don't learn to stop speeding, instead we learn where not to speed. So unless you have this plan to change the human nature, don't argue that this isn't a huge cash grab.
Of course it is: it's grabbing the cash from the idiots who are too stupid to plan ahead for other ways to get home. If you know transit doesn't run late, then don't party late. If you know you'll have to use a cab, call and book one in advance. It really doesn't take a lot of brains.

And look at it this way: even if it doesn't change human nature, it will at least keep the serious drunks off the roads a little longer. Someone under the old rules could get busted for a suspected DUI, get the 24-hour roadside, and be back out drunk again the next night. Now they're off the road for at least a few days... like, until AFTER the long weekend. Any way you look at it, it's safer for the rest of us.

I'd like to inject a quote from another thread, as well, because it fits here:

mkchoi0801, one day, when you graduate from school, come back and reread your posts, and you'll see how ridiculous they are

[no_clue]

wow this guy does not take into account any risk or liabilities

mkchoi, I hope you get drunk and smash your moms bmw/benz into a pedestrian. Start crying when ICBC denies your insurance and that person sues you for 3 million+ and your family goes bankrupt. Watch your dad deport you to the Korean army for 2 years.

[mkchoi0801]

You can start spamming all the bullshit you want here man, but that's not gonna happen. I never mentioned anything about taking a pro- drink and drive side. Was I the one charged with DUI here? I must have missed something????
I never said anything about myself drinking and driving yet you gather around like a pack of homeless dogs. You still haven't constructed your argument yet, there are numerous countries that have far superior transit system that runs late to all locations. WTF is a bus for if I have to walk 90 minutes to catch one? Think about it for a second, my argument was that if Canada had a more convenient system that allowed drunk people to get home at later times to different places, there would be less drunk drivers. What's yours?

[mkchoi0801]

wow this guy does not take into account any risk or liabilities

mkchoi, I hope you get drunk and smash your moms bmw/benz into a pedestrian. Start crying when ICBC denies your insurance and that person sues you for 3 million+ and your family goes bankrupt. Watch your dad deport you to the Korean army for 2 years.

Getting a little personal are we now :D
I don't know the exact statistics of drunk drivers involved in an accident compared to drunk drivers caught by officers, and before you rage on this post, just chill out and listen for a change.
Imagine that you were drunk and considering driving. What are the odds that you'd risk your OWN life to drive? If I was ever caught drinking and driving, it'll be by a cop, not in an accident. Think before you spew out more shit out of your ass please, thanks and come again.

[EXV603]

i do agree with mkchoi that our transit system sucks.

[4chinit]

Getting a little personal are we now :D
I don't know the exact statistics of drunk drivers involved in an accident compared to drunk drivers caught by officers, and before you rage on this post, just chill out and listen for a change.
Imagine that you were drunk and considering driving. What are the odds that you'd risk your OWN life to drive? If I was ever caught drinking and driving, it'll be by a cop, not in an accident. Think before you spew out more shit out of your ass please, thanks and come again.

Your risk assessment is impaired when you're drunk.

[goo3]

You can keep wishing that harsher penalties will reduce DUI, but psychology taught us that if we get a ticket for speeding, we don't learn to stop speeding, instead we learn where not to speed. So unless you have this plan to change the human nature, don't argue that this isn't a huge cash grab.
/rant

That's the point. You've obviously never taken psychology.

[threezero]

i was going to say i agree with mkchoi about our lousy transit system but i got lost reading the rest of his stuff. I think you should take your rants to xanga because all it does is take away from your argument and allow others to make fun of you.

[mkchoi0801]

So no one has argued anything in this thread. Keep reading selectively and make fun of sarcastic points that I did make. You guys are hilarious, never change :D

[mkchoi0801]

Your risk assessment is impaired when you're drunk.

That's the whole point. There's a massive difference when I had 2 beers compared to when I chugged a mickey of vodka. I'm way more likely to drink and drive when I had the 2 beers, and also less likely to get involved in an accident.

If you buy a lotto ticket, do you assume that you are going to win every time? Probably not, but you're probably going to assume that you have a higher chance of winning the smaller winnings. That's the reason I play lotto.
The chances are certainly there, getting in an accident while you're drunk. All I was saying is that there's a much higher chance of just getting caught by a cop. Even getting away with nothing but maybe a scratch on your bumper. That would be the reason I'd drink and drive, if I ever did.

I probably just made another ridiculous analogy, at 7:30AM, but let's see how you tools respond again. Please answer by saying, you don't kill anyone by playing lotto, or something of equivalent stupidity.

[mkchoi0801]

That's the point. You've obviously never taken psychology.

I don't get it? We don't learn jack shit from those tickets, that's proven. What are you trying to argue.

[hotjoint]

Anyone get busted yet?

[mkchoi0801]

Hey how about saying something instead of failing big guy :D

[aznrsx1979]

I don't get it? We don't learn jack shit from those tickets, that's proven. What are you trying to argue.

Well I'm sure people will learn their lesson if they're going to be paying $3750 to get their car back and have their license suspended for 3 months. I doubt a lot of people can afford to pay that often and not have the ability to drive especially if they need to for work. The penalties are even more if there's an accident involved.

[vafanculo]

That's the whole point. There's a massive difference when I had 2 beers compared to when I chugged a mickey of vodka. I'm way more likely to drink and drive when I had the 2 beers, and also less likely to get involved in an accident.

If you buy a lotto ticket, do you assume that you are going to win every time? Probably not, but you're probably going to assume that you have a higher chance of winning the smaller winnings. That's the reason I play lotto.
The chances are certainly there, getting in an accident while you're drunk. All I was saying is that there's a much higher chance of just getting caught by a cop. Even getting away with nothing but maybe a scratch on your bumper. That would be the reason I'd drink and drive, if I ever did.

I probably just made another ridiculous analogy, at 7:30AM, but let's see how you tools respond again. Please answer by saying, you don't kill anyone by playing lotto, or something of equivalent stupidity.

I know it's just an analogy, but when you play lotto you are risking only your money. When you drink and drive, even just 2 beers, you are not just risking your money (assuming you blow over), but more importantly jeopardizing other drivers on the road.

If you don't play the lotto, you have NO CHANCE of winning. If you drink and drive, you have a CHANCE of 1) getting caught 2) killing someone. Why take that chance? I wouldn't care if it's just your life on the line, but unfortunately I know alot of loved ones, including myself, that have to share the road with people that have your mentality. Don't be like that other idiot who posted up a thread about fully knowing he was driving while prohibited, got caught, and is now shitting his pants.
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[Soundy]

I don't get it? We don't learn jack shit from those tickets, that's proven. What are you trying to argue.

What mean "we," white man?

I'd suggest that the vast number of tickets handed out - for any infractions, not just drinking and driving - compared to the relatively few stories we see in the news of the CHRONIC re-offenders, proves that most people DO "learn their lesson". Unfortunately, the only time you hear about it is the stories of the ones who refuse to clue in - doesn't mean it's not having the desired effect for the rest of society.

[Greenstoner]

Should offer cheap hotels in vancouver or cheap cab home.

[Soundy]

Should offer cheap hotels in vancouver or cheap cab home.

Great idea... who's going to "offer" these? You expect the hotels and cabs are going to take the hit out of the goodness of their collective hearts? Perhaps you could suggest that the cops subsidize them out of their own paychecks?

[Greenstoner]

^ they will probably make more money if you think about it
how many hotel in downtown is full on a daily basis ? This will generate their revenue thats for sure.

[Soundy]

^To be offset by the cleanup costs - you ever seen the back of the average cab after a drunken fare??

[91LS-VTak]

People have to remember that driving is a privilege, not a right. If you abuse the rules, you should have that privilege taken away from you. Personally, i think that if you're caught drinking and driving once, you should lose your license for a year. The second time, lifetime ban. Or maybe have the igintion breathalyzer thing installed for a long time, something harsh.

[RiceIntegraRS]

^i dont think many of us are complaining about the penalties that are being imposed for drunk driving. My arguement is the how they deem someone too drunk to drive. EVERYONE is aloud to Drink and Drive, You just cant be impaired and driving. The breathalyzer is all over the map from the stories i hear from my friends and personal experience. And now the punishment for having a warning is the same as the old .08 punishment.

As for our Transit systems, We have safe injection sites for those few people that like to shoot up yet we dont have our transit systems running late for the people(and its alot of us) who like to drink. And theres not 1 person who will complain about it running late if it means less impaired drivers on the road. But in BC that means someone has to pay for that and thats us cause Government will never pay for something we do want and need.

[Soundy]

^i dont think many of us are complaining about the penalties that are being imposed for drunk driving. My arguement is the how they deem someone too drunk to drive. EVERYONE is aloud to Drink and Drive, You just cant be impaired and driving. The breathalyzer is all over the map from the stories i hear from my friends and personal experience. And now the punishment for having a warning is the same as the old .08 punishment.

You're contradicting yourself - you say few are complaining about the penalties, but then you sound like you ARE complaining about them.

The breathalyzer doesn't test how "impaired" you are, it tests the percentage of alcohol in your blood. It's not "all over the map", it's a long-proven and refined technology that's deemed "accurate enough" by just about every jurisdiction in the world.

We're told a larger person can drink more without getting drunk, and whaddya know, a bigger person will have more blood and thus require more alcohol to reach the same BAC.

Your impairment goes away as your body metabolizes the alcohol, and surprise surprise, your BAC goes down as well.

Unfortunately there's no OBJECTIVE way to actually test "impairment" so the next best option is testing BAC and setting a hard limit.

The limits haven't changed; all that's changed is the legal consequences.