[Gt-R R34]

No help for man, 79, mugged by on Toronto subway train; two men sought

An elderly man who cried out for help as he was being mugged on a Toronto subway train received no assistance from other commuters.


The 79-year-old victim, Yusuf Hizel, told City-TV that two thugs asked for change and when he told them he didn't have any they grabbed him and took his wallet out of his pocket and smashed his glasses.


He tried to activate the passenger-assistance alarm _ a yellow strip above the seats _ but could not reach it.


He said Monday night that the train was half full and despite screaming for help, no one came.


The attackers fled when the train pulled into an east-end station and his wallet, with the money gone, was later found on the street.


"It is disappointing," said Brad Ross, a spokesman for the Toronto Transit Commission.


"People may feel intimidated about getting involved."


The suspects are believed to be in their 20s.


News of the Toronto incident came amid reports that a homeless man who was stabbed when he rushed to assist a woman being attacked on a New York City street died on the sidewalk as pedestrians strolled by.


A surveillance video obtained by The New York Post shows Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yaxe lying face down for more than an hour. Several people turned their heads, and a few gawked before moving on.


Police were investigating.


Ross said other people on the Toronto subway car may have been concerned that pressing the alarm would have drawn attention to themselves but stressed the alarm on subway cars is silent.


Pressing the strip alerts only the guard and driver, who then notify transit control and security officials before the train pulls into a station, he said.


"We do encourage customers, if they see another customer or passenger in distress _ whether it's a medical incident or a criminal occurrence _ to press the yellow strip," Ross said.


Transit officials said snatch-and-grabs of iPods or cellphones and similar items are fairly common.


However, a robbery of an elderly passenger is "rare," Ross said.


Police were using security-cameras located throughout the system to try to identify the two thugs.

They are asking anyone who may have information on the incident to contact them.


This is the 3rd story i read today about people just by-passing or pretending not to see to help someone out. Another one was in NY where, a homeless man saved a woman from an attacked got stabbed and no one helped him until 2 hours later where he was found dead.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

these days ppls mentality is every man for themself, sad but true tho..

[Marioo1991]

these days ppls mentality is every man for themself, sad but true tho..

I agree, it sucks.

[hk20000]

the trouble you could have got into for helping.....

it's a different story if it's a hot chick that got robbed.

[fishing666]

it's dangerous to help the old guy..a knife stab or a gun shot would be the end for any passenger. The old guy is 79 years old. The rewards seem small. There might be a small chance that this old guy is super nice with loads of money.

Obviously the risk was too high for any payouts.

[q0192837465]

cost/benefit

Cost: calling 911 & stay at the scene, getting questioned by police = losing half day of pay, the mugger might target u instead, the old guy could sue u

Benefit: a thank you if u'r lucky

You do the math.

To add insults to injuries

People Walk By Hero Bleeding To Death
The man was stabbed in the chest after stopping a woman from a knife-wielding attacker.


Homeless man Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax, 31, a Guatemalan immigrant, collapsed on a New York street after being stabbed by a knife-wielding attacker. Tale-Yax had reportedly protected a woman from an attack, and was stabbed several time in the chest. Dozens walked by the dying man on the sidewalk. One even stopped to snap a picture of the man on his camera phone.




Sauce: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-viral-man-left-to-die-story,0,644252.htmlstory

It's just not worth it to be a good Samaritan

[babykiller]

So bad... but think about it. You get stabbed or cut or whatever, now you have a cool scar. And a badass scar with a cool story behind it is better panty remover than lemon gin.

Except if you get stabbed in the balls. Then it's not that great.

[NeoDestinyZ]

It's time to call for Kick-Ass http://the-void.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/kickass1.jpg

[Porschedog]

^
ohh shit kick ass haha

[hk20000]

^ great movie.

[Retrac]

Wtf so he saved her life resulting in a knif wound, and she leaves him there to bleed to death?? Fucking chaotic out there.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Gt-R R34]

dude, if your fellow passenger wouldn't even press the damn yellow strip on the car...

WTF!

[taylor192]

To all the angels on here: how many homeless people have you walked by and not even noticed? or avoided purposely?

Crowds tend to have a deer-caught-in-headlights reaction until someone steps up. If one passenger had confronted the thugs it may have inspired others, and then a group of angry passengers vs 2 thugs becomes better odds.

[notching]

we asians don't like minding other people's businesses
we keep to ourselves and stay outta trouble

[welfare]

cowards

[Retrac]

Homeless or not when you see a person on the floor bleeding you should not be snapping pictures with your phone, instead pull it out and call 911 you don't even have to stay but at least your helpIng. And not all Asians are like that I know plenty that would help others regardless. It's the way your brought up.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[FN-2199]

Nowadays it's very rare to find good samaritans..

[EX-R]

we asians don't like minding other people's businesses
we keep to ourselves and stay outta trouble

But they really love to stare for some odd reason
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Greenstoner]

this is very common on other cities or countries

[m!chael]

http://www.revscene.net/forums/chinese-real-estate-t613086.html

[optiblue]

wow... another reason to not take transit! But it could happen anywhere honestly~

[tiger_handheld]

cost/benefit

Cost: calling 911 & stay at the scene, getting questioned by police = losing half day of pay, the mugger might target u instead, the old guy could sue u

Benefit: a thank you if u'r lucky

You do the math.

To add insults to injuries



Sauce: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-viral-man-left-to-die-story,0,644252.htmlstory

It's just not worth it to be a good Samaritan

this is the second time i've seen u misspell it. it's Source

[TheKingdom2000]

What would happen if you got into a street fight or bar fight back in the day? The worst that would probably happen is that you'd get your ass kicked.

What could happen if you got into a street fight or bar fight today? You might get shot/stabbed. Times have changed. It's not what it used to be.

My uncle used to be a meat head back in the day. He told me the craziest stories ever. He said he and his friends would look for trouble on purpose... and he said the worst thing that ever happened was he got a black eye and some bruised ribs...
He then told me that he wouldn't dare try to do things he did now. Even he recognizes that guns and weapons are more prevalent these days. He's about 6'3'' 220lbs, he told me that he wouldn't mess around anymore. He said it's not worth it. He has a wife and three kids, why would he risk it?

So how can you expect people, complete strangers to risk their lives for you? If someone wants to rob you, just let them rob you? Who cares? You may lose your wallet, you may lose your phone, you may lose your necklace. So in total you could lose up to $500??? or if you fought back, you could lose your life.

Now tell me, what's worth it? Some material objects or your life?

Pussy or no pussy, it's not worth the risk.

"News of the Toronto incident came amid reports that a homeless man who was stabbed when he rushed to assist a woman being attacked on a New York City street died on the sidewalk as pedestrians strolled by."
^ strait from the article. my point exactly.

[fishing666]

wtf i just said the same thing others have said and i get failed for it. you guys need to fail yourselves for discrimination against me

[shawn79]

no one gives a shit anymore these days, all they do is watch or film shit on their cellphone and put it on youtube for laughter

[MR_BIGGS]

Reminds me of the last Seinfeld episode where Jerry, Elaine, George and Kramer see that fat guy getting carjacked at gun point and they record it and point and laugh at him and end up in jail because of the duty to rescue law.

[welfare]

What would happen if you got into a street fight or bar fight back in the day? The worst that would probably happen is that you'd get your ass kicked.

What could happen if you got into a street fight or bar fight today? You might get shot/stabbed. Times have changed. It's not what it used to be.

My uncle used to be a meat head back in the day. He told me the craziest stories ever. He said he and his friends would look for trouble on purpose... and he said the worst thing that ever happened was he got a black eye and some bruised ribs...
He then told me that he wouldn't dare try to do things he did now. Even he recognizes that guns and weapons are more prevalent these days. He's about 6'3'' 220lbs, he told me that he wouldn't mess around anymore. He said it's not worth it. He has a wife and three kids, why would he risk it?

So how can you expect people, complete strangers to risk their lives for you? If someone wants to rob you, just let them rob you? Who cares? You may lose your wallet, you may lose your phone, you may lose your necklace. So in total you could lose up to $500??? or if you fought back, you could lose your life.

Now tell me, what's worth it? Some material objects or your life?

Pussy or no pussy, it's not worth the risk.

"News of the Toronto incident came amid reports that a homeless man who was stabbed when he rushed to assist a woman being attacked on a New York City street died on the sidewalk as pedestrians strolled by."
^ strait from the article. my point exactly.

it's not about the material objects.
it's about morality. yours and theirs

-silence is betrayal-martin luther king

[tonyvu]

yea i find that people just stand and watch if something does go down... its pretty sad

[hk20000]

^ free movie.

[TheKingdom2000]

it's not about the material objects.
it's about morality. yours and theirs

-silence is betrayal-martin luther king

is your morality > your life?
if so, you are a stronger man than I will ever be. And I commend you for that.

[Leparto]

wtf i just said the same thing others have said and i get failed for it. you guys need to fail yourselves for discrimination against me

your an idiot, what your saying is that you would only help somone for a reward.

what your saying is if you saw a kid being mandhandled into a shady van u would walk away and not call the police.

cuz u know no reward and all why the bother?

[welfare]

is your morality > your life?
if so, you are a stronger man than I will ever be. And I commend you for that.

that man had no idea he was going to die. we rarely do.
from your aspect, it's not worth it to help; from mine, it wouldn't be worth it not to.
i suppose what i'm saying is that yes, we should hold our morals in a higher regard than our fears

[CanadaGoose]

Where have all the civilian sheepdogs gone?

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

it's dangerous to help the old guy..a knife stab or a gun shot would be the end for any passenger. The old guy is 79 years old. The rewards seem small. There might be a small chance that this old guy is super nice with loads of money.

Obviously the risk was too high for any payouts.

ughhhh ok dude

u better wish u never get old one day

[FI-Z33]

^ lol..can't believe people are so ignorant these days eh?

[Kamui712]

reality is that people are either too interested to "see what's going to happen" or they have the mentality of "better them than me".

In vancouver, there are two main problems.

1. People are too self centered
2. The fucking transit police show up 20 - 30 minutes after being called, waddle over with a pissed off look on their face because they had to actually do something... ask you what happened, THEN call the real police who take another 20-30 minutes to arrive.

I'm not from Vancouver, I grew up in a place where people were much friendlier and it was a shock to me how cold people here are.

A few months back a big drunk construction worker was harassing a young girl sitting beside me on the skytrain. He was an inch from her face saying smut to her and telling her to go home with him. She said "Please leave me alone I'm uncomfortable" loudly enough that everyone could hear. By her expression she really wanted someone to help her. The cart had about 15-20 people in it, old, young, and even some tough looking guys. NO ONE did anything! I stepped in and the guy tried to fight me. He ended up taking off when we reached the next skytrain station.

I am by no means intimidating, I'm 5'3 and 120lbs. If I can stand up to a guy that's a hundred pounds heavier than me, so can other people. You don't need to personally know someone to care about their safety.

Some people will say "What about MY safety, if I help out than I'm in danger." Well, that may be the case but if your ass was the one that was in need of help I'm sure you'd have wanted someone there. If you don't help out personally then do something else: call the cops, push the yellow emergency strip on the skytrain. Just don't fucking stand there gawking and updating your twitter/facebook status.

[InvisibleSoul]

It's called diffusion of responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

If it was only one person or a few people who witnessed it happening, there is a far greater likelihood that they would have taken action.

But since there were dozens of people that saw it, nobody wants to take charge, and everyone expects or wants someone else to do something about it, but in the end nobody does.

[fishing666]

your an idiot, what your saying is that you would only help somone for a reward.

what your saying is if you saw a kid being mandhandled into a shady van u would walk away and not call the police.

cuz u know no reward and all why the bother?

wut...i just don't get that heroic sense of justice for helping others like that. that could be your reward, sure but not mine. that particular risk to me is worth a lifetime. someone better feed me for a lifetime to take on that risk. that's all im implying. I'm not saying I wouldn't help the guy..it's just that that sense of justice doesn't benefit me like it would to others.

ok? relax cuz the old guy is still alive.

[Walperstyle]

I would have helped...but its Kind of difficult when the government of canada makes it almost impossible for Canadians to own handguns legally

I have no problem with stopping someone if odds are in my favor. me vs 2 guys that could potentially be armed, probably I'll take a picture, give a statement and go to court if I have to, but I'd rather have the law on my side to bring out the ol .45 and tell them to make my day.

[El Bastardo]

I would have helped...but its Kind of difficult when the government of canada makes it almost impossible for Canadians to own handguns legally

I have no problem with stopping someone if odds are in my favor. me vs 2 guys that could potentially be armed, probably I'll take a picture, give a statement and go to court if I have to, but I'd rather have the law on my side to bring out the ol .45 and tell them to make my day.




This is why most Canadians can't get a carry/conceal permit. This sort of attitude right here.

[Alphamale]

I would have helped...but its Kind of difficult when the government of canada makes it almost impossible for Canadians to own handguns legally

I have no problem with stopping someone if odds are in my favor. me vs 2 guys that could potentially be armed, probably I'll take a picture, give a statement and go to court if I have to, but I'd rather have the law on my side to bring out the ol .45 and tell them to make my day.


Yes, because having a gun cures all the world's problems.

[Walperstyle]

Because of my attitude? I don't ever plan on shooting someone. I'd gladly pull it on some guys kicking the crap out of some old dude if odds were against me.

I am capable of defending myself against knives and such, but two guys with knives, or guns is a different story.

Criminals will always have guns, I don't see why the public cant have them. If you are afraid of them, then don't have one, or take the proper courses on how to use them so you learn how to make it 'automatic' in you training. Anyone who is RCMP or Military knows what I'm talking about.

I like hearing the stories every year of some old granny that blew away some street thug because they under-estimated them. If everyone on the skytrain was packing a gun, criminals would maybe think twice about robbing someone.

Society is as good as you guys.

[XtC-604]

Because of my attitude? I don't ever plan on shooting someone. I'd gladly pull it on some guys kicking the crap out of some old dude if odds were against me.

I am capable of defending myself against knives and such, but two guys with knives, or guns is a different story.

Criminals will always have guns, I don't see why the public cant have them. If you are afraid of them, then don't have one, or take the proper courses on how to use them so you learn how to make it 'automatic' in you training. Anyone who is RCMP or Military knows what I'm talking about.

I like hearing the stories every year of some old granny that blew away some street thug because they under-estimated them. If everyone on the skytrain was packing a gun, criminals would maybe think twice about robbing someone.

Society is as good as you guys.
You're an idiot, so if every iron-hearted citizen were to carry a gun, and some thiefs break into your house and steals that gun, then what? thats one extra gun on the streets

[Marioo1991]

Its a tough situation. I'm sure no one would want to go in alone to try and stop the muggers. What I would do is try and get at least 3-4 other guys on the subway to team up and beat the shit out of the muggers. Yah 4-5 guys vs 2 isnt fair, but neither is 2 muggers against a 79 year old, just a taste of their own medicine.

[Greenstoner]

its better not to help because you know never if someone will press charge on your ass even you were the victim or hero. Only in Vancouver, buddy !!

[hotjoint]

Its a tough situation. I'm sure no one would want to go in alone to try and stop the muggers. What I would do is try and get at least 3-4 other guys on the subway to team up and beat the shit out of the muggers. Yah 4-5 guys vs 2 isnt fair, but neither is 2 muggers against a 79 year old, just a taste of their own medicine.

:werd:

[Great68]

If everyone on the skytrain was packing a gun, criminals would maybe think twice about robbing someone.



Because firing a gun on a loaded skytrain would be a good idea.

[babykiller]

Because firing a gun on a loaded skytrain would be a good idea.

Totally. You know it would bounce around the car in this sequence:

Ping off a wall
Ping off the roof
Explode a wine glass someone is holding
Ping off a handrail
Go right through someones top hat / afro / novelty beer drinking hardhat
Ping off the floor
Ping off a cuckoo clock, causing the bird to come out
Ping off a wall again
Kill a baby

[Tapioca]

cost/benefit

Cost: calling 911 & stay at the scene, getting questioned by police = losing half day of pay, the mugger might target u instead, the old guy could sue u

Benefit: a thank you if u'r lucky

You do the math.

To add insults to injuries


Your employer is going to penalize you for helping someone out? Any reasonable boss would understand.

I've taken first aid courses in the past and from what I've been told, the Good Samaritan Act will protect you if you cannot save someone's life or prevent injuries. Unless you are grossly negligent, there's little chance that the victim will sue you.

You can't break it down into a simple cost-benefit analysis. It's not necessarily about being a "hero" either; it's about doing what's right.


Sauce: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-viral-man-left-to-die-story,0,644252.htmlstory

It's just not worth it to be a good Samaritan

And how often does this happen? That a mugger turns around and stabs someone else to death?

[ecchiecchi]

If we keep turning our heads to things like this, it's bound to happen more. I won't be surprised if thugs start thinking "Oh shit, no matter how busy the street is, we can just mug people coz no one will care anyways."

And one day, you're gonna get so lucky that you're going to be the one who gets robbed with a gun/knife. Don't cry when you start calling for help and no one tried to help you.

I never thought I'd say this but, I have more respect for the bum who died than the people who automatically think about the cost and the risk.

You don't need a reason to save someone in trouble, you just do. But you don't have to be stupid about it.

[Marioo1991]

I never thought I'd say this but, I have more respect for the bum who died than the people who automatically think about the cost and the risk.


I agree with this, you shouldnt put a value on someones life by using a cost/benefit analysis, but the US health care system does.

[ecchiecchi]

It's called diffusion of responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

If it was only one person or a few people who witnessed it happening, there is a far greater likelihood that they would have taken action.

But since there were dozens of people that saw it, nobody wants to take charge, and everyone expects or wants someone else to do something about it, but in the end nobody does.

Now that people know of this theory, they should never ever fall prey to it.

Always assume that everyone's too pansy to do something about it.

[bloodmack]

I would have helped...but its Kind of difficult when the government of canada makes it almost impossible for Canadians to own handguns legally

I have no problem with stopping someone if odds are in my favor. me vs 2 guys that could potentially be armed, probably I'll take a picture, give a statement and go to court if I have to, but I'd rather have the law on my side to bring out the ol .45 and tell them to make my day.

Im pretty sure if we could own a handgun legally we wouldn't be able to fire it legally. Sure a gun will persuade a guy not to mess with you, but if he's smart he knows your gun isn't most likely loaded.

[q0192837465]

Your employer is going to penalize you for helping someone out? Any reasonable boss would understand.

I've taken first aid courses in the past and from what I've been told, the Good Samaritan Act will protect you if you cannot save someone's life or prevent injuries. Unless you are grossly negligent, there's little chance that the victim will sue you.

You can't break it down into a simple cost-benefit analysis. It's not necessarily about being a "hero" either; it's about doing what's right.

And how often does this happen? That a mugger turns around and stabs someone else to death?

Any reasonable employer will not penalize u, but how many reasonable bosses are out there? It doesnt matter if u'r out there trying to save the world from evil aliens, u dun work, u dun get paid, end of story.

Responsibility has more than just 1 dimension. Yes, you are morally responsible to help the person in need. But at the same time, you are ALSO responsible to your wife & kids. Before you charge in there to save the day, have you thought about what will happen if you are injured and can't work for the next 6 months? what if u get sued and are in for an expensive legal battle? How will that affect ur family? Yes, you're right that you can't break it down to simple cost/benefit analysis. But it doesnt mean that it should not be considered.

[Marioo1991]

Any reasonable employer will not penalize u, but how many reasonable bosses are out there? It doesnt matter if u'r out there trying to save the world from evil aliens, u dun work, u dun get paid, end of story.

Responsibility has more than just 1 dimension. Yes, you are morally responsible to help the person in need. But at the same time, you are ALSO responsible to your wife & kids. Before you charge in there to save the day, have you thought about what will happen if you are injured and can't work for the next 6 months? what if u get sued and are in for an expensive legal battle? How will that affect ur family? Yes, you're right that you can't break it down to simple cost/benefit analysis. But it doesnt mean that it should not be considered.

I agree with your arguement, but I would find it hard to live with myself if someone died and there was something I could have done to prevent it.

[choda]

So I was leaving my review session walking toward Koerner, when I see this blind man walking around confused asking different people to help him but most people just blow him off or don't really care to help. So I approach him and ask him what he's looking for, he says Buchanan tower, now really, the guy was at Buchanan B (which if you don't is literally a 3 or 4 minute walk to the tower) and no one could just help this guy out and walk him over there ??? WTF is wrong with people!! I took the guy to buchanan tower and he was a really cool guy, sucks people don't take the time of day to help people out anymore, fucking selfish pricks.

[ecchiecchi]

You may not know, but sometimes it just takes for a person to do something, to save another from a lot of trouble.

Case and point- What if someone pressed that silent alarm on the train? Would the thugs have escaped? Maybe, but at least the chances were lower.

You don't have to stand up and put your life on the line. You don't have to be a hero. Don't just sit there and watch the whole thing thinking about how it's not your problem. It's not prime time drama. At least do what you can to help someone out.

And honestly, with the story of the bum getting stabbed while saving a woman- Can you honestly say that everyone passing by had something more important to attend to? Or were they just too busy not caring?

Reminds me of the story my gf told me about how a girl getting raped by a bum outside of HMV @ Robson and people just formed a circle and watched.

If it's anywhere within your reach- try to help even if it's something small. You don't have to be a hero. Just don't be the asshole that ignores people who obviously need help.

[Tapioca]

Any reasonable employer will not penalize u, but how many reasonable bosses are out there? It doesnt matter if u'r out there trying to save the world from evil aliens, u dun work, u dun get paid, end of story.

Okay, so worse-case scenario I don't get paid for half a day. Is that really going to make a difference to my life in the grand scheme of things? I will be able to sleep at night knowing that I tried to do the right thing even if I have to forego take-out for the next month. If you manage your finances so precariously that you can't afford to help someone out lest you lose a half-day of pay, you've got other problems.


Responsibility has more than just 1 dimension. Yes, you are morally responsible to help the person in need. But at the same time, you are ALSO responsible to your wife & kids. Before you charge in there to save the day, have you thought about what will happen if you are injured and can't work for the next 6 months? what if u get sued and are in for an expensive legal battle? How will that affect ur family? Yes, you're right that you can't break it down to simple cost/benefit analysis. But it doesnt mean that it should not be considered.

Who's going to sue you? You are protected under our laws if you try to help someone out.

I don't have kids, but I know that if I did, I would want to set an example for them. If I were to get injured, well I can at least go out knowing that I did the right thing - something which I would hope in the future my children would understand and respect. You know why we have this type of behaviour in our society today? Because, there are fewer and fewer people willing to stand up for what's right.

[Mr.HappySilp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwwB9P_0PQ

[Leparto]

say the mugger hasnt done anything yet and has only threatened the guy for his wallet and you overheard

so u take action and punch him in the head couple times and cause a concussion.

can the mugger take action and sue u?

[babykiller]

say the mugger hasnt done anything yet and has only threatened the guy for his wallet and you overheard

so u take action and punch him in the head couple times and cause a concussion.

can the mugger take action and sue u?

Why would you go that way? You could always start with "hey stop mugging that guy"...

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

say the mugger hasnt done anything yet and has only threatened the guy for his wallet and you overheard

so u take action and punch him in the head couple times and cause a concussion.

can the mugger take action and sue u?
with canada's gayass system, i gurantee he can

[q0192837465]

Okay, so worse-case scenario I don't get paid for half a day. Is that really going to make a difference to my life in the grand scheme of things? I will be able to sleep at night knowing that I tried to do the right thing even if I have to forego take-out for the next month. If you manage your finances so precariously that you can't afford to help someone out lest you lose a half-day of pay, you've got other problems.



Who's going to sue you? You are protected under our laws if you try to help someone out.

I don't have kids, but I know that if I did, I would want to set an example for them. If I were to get injured, well I can at least go out knowing that I did the right thing - something which I would hope in the future my children would understand and respect. You know why we have this type of behaviour in our society today? Because, there are fewer and fewer people willing to stand up for what's right.

I'm not justifying that it is right for people to just stand there and do nothing. If I'm in that situation I'll press the silent alarm for sure. What I'm trying to say is that we should also consider the other side of the issue. Some people have more to lose than others. Someone working $12/hr to feed his wife and 2 kids has WAY MORE to lose than a bachelor making 70k a year. Respect is great, but it doesnt put food on the table.

Look at it this way. Say u successfully fend off the mugger, what is the outcome? The guy says thank you, and you go on your merry way. All is great. But what if you fail? You get cut up and you have to stay in the hospital for the next 2 months. Or you accidentally stabbed the mugger and the mugger is now suing u for assult. What then? Are you going to feel good that you saved an old man when ur wife and kids are getting evicted cuz they can't pay rent and need to go to the food bank cuz they have no moeny for food? I know this is an extreme case but these are issues people have to consider in real life.

[Gt-R R34]

I would have helped...but its Kind of difficult when the government of canada makes it almost impossible for Canadians to own handguns legally

I have no problem with stopping someone if odds are in my favor. me vs 2 guys that could potentially be armed, probably I'll take a picture, give a statement and go to court if I have to, but I'd rather have the law on my side to bring out the ol .45 and tell them to make my day.

You need to move to the USA. That's never been what Canada's been about.

[Noir]

Nowadays it's very rare to find good samaritans..

I disagree. I've been the recipient of, and the giver of random acts of kindness/assistance many a times over. I've even seen others do it as well in great regularity.

Or maybe I just live in Vancouver and as long as a person asks for help really politely, whether it be asking for the time, directions, or change a tire, I've never seen anyone get refused. As long as the request is being asked politely.

However, I've never been mugged though, or assaulted with a weapon so I don't know how much that'll
deter people's nature to assist over their nature of self preservation.


we asians don't like minding other people's businesses

What are you talking about? They are the most likely to stick their nose in other people's business. As long as it's dirt and gossip. :)

[v.Rossi]

these days ppls mentality is every man for themself, sad but true tho..

these days? it's always been like this.

[Gt-R R34]

I'm not justifying that it is right for people to just stand there and do nothing. If I'm in that situation I'll press the silent alarm for sure. What I'm trying to say is that we should also consider the other side of the issue. Some people have more to lose than others. Someone working $12/hr to feed his wife and 2 kids has WAY MORE to lose than a bachelor making 70k a year. Respect is great, but it doesnt put food on the table.

Look at it this way. Say u successfully fend off the mugger, what is the outcome? The guy says thank you, and you go on your merry way. All is great. But what if you fail? You get cut up and you have to stay in the hospital for the next 2 months. Or you accidentally stabbed the mugger and the mugger is now suing u for assult. What then? Are you going to feel good that you saved an old man when ur wife and kids are getting evicted cuz they can't pay rent and need to go to the food bank cuz they have no moeny for food? I know this is an extreme case but these are issues people have to consider in real life.

And this is why, 1. no one help no one anymore.

Selfish attitudes. No one has respect or common decencies anymore.
You PROVE my point on how no one helps anyone because everyone is selfish. your past couple of post literally exemplify what's wrong in the world.

Your posts also show why terrorism works, and why suppression of races have been a fact of life for some people to this date.

[v.Rossi]

People still help people and always will. Can we not paint everyone with the same brush here?

If you're expecting everyone to be helping everyone, well wake up it ain't gonna happen.

[ae101]

serious like ecchiecchi said, if u have time to think about how to react when someone needs help in a time like this then u can go hell

[chun]

cost/benefit

Cost: calling 911 & stay at the scene, getting questioned by police = losing half day of pay, the mugger might target u instead, the old guy could sue u

Benefit: a thank you if u'r lucky

You do the math.

To add insults to injuries



Sauce: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-viral-man-left-to-die-story,0,644252.htmlstory

It's just not worth it to be a good Samaritan

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/barry_schwartz_on_our_loss_of_wisdom.html

It's not about doing the "math" and figuring out what provides more utility all the time. It's about living LIFE and making WISE choices to do the RIGHT thing.

It's embarrassing how many people here are arguing about how they would lose pay, lose a job, what they would do if they had a gun, how they have to think about the RULES on helping another person in danger. Not just embarrassing actually, it's FUCKING EMBARRASSING.

(don't get me wrong, you don't have to be hero and beat up the thieves, but do SOMETHING to help; in the original article, noone even pressed the silent alarm or called 911)

[Tapioca]

Some people have more to lose than others. Someone working $12/hr to feed his wife and 2 kids has WAY MORE to lose than a bachelor making 70k a year. Respect is great, but it doesnt put food on the table.

Such as? I would argue that as a man, he has no choice but to stand up for what's right.

You also neatly presume that the victim does not have life insurance. Most people, even working for large companies which pay wages of $12/hour, provide their employees with some form of life insurance.


Look at it this way. Say u successfully fend off the mugger, what is the outcome? The guy says thank you, and you go on your merry way. All is great. But what if you fail? You get cut up and you have to stay in the hospital for the next 2 months. Or you accidentally stabbed the mugger and the mugger is now suing u for assult. What then? Are you going to feel good that you saved an old man when ur wife and kids are getting evicted cuz they can't pay rent and need to go to the food bank cuz they have no moeny for food? I know this is an extreme case but these are issues people have to consider in real life.

Yeah, it is an extreme case and rarely does this happen.

Most petty criminals are not stupid. If you think about it, they choose to "negotiate" (i.e. threatening someone with a knife or gun) because they do not want to resort to the messier alternative which is to shoot or stab someone (which is far easier to do to get what they want.) If someone stands up to them and says something, or acts in a way that makes it less easy for them to get what they want (i.e. pushing the silent alarm, calling the police, etc.), they will move on and find an easier target.

In your scenario, if I were to succeed, I wouldn't expect more than a thanks. It's not about me; it's about my role in upholding society's morals.

Btw, if I were to "accidentally" stab him, it would be a criminal offence, not a civil one. The last time I checked, you are allowed to use a "reasonable" amount of force to defend yourself from attacks. I would be able to defend myself (with a good lawyer) in court, and in all likelihood, I would be acquitted considering the circumstances, likely media attention, etc.

[q0192837465]

And this is why, 1. no one help no one anymore.

Selfish attitudes. No one has respect or common decencies anymore.
You PROVE my point on how no one helps anyone because everyone is selfish. your past couple of post literally exemplify what's wrong in the world.

Your posts also show why terrorism works, and why suppression of races have been a fact of life for some people to this date.

It's sad, I agree.

But I forgot who posted it, but in another thread someone wrote that the world is operated out of selfishness. You have food on ur table because the farmer/butcher/fishermen are selfish and want your money. They do not work their asses off to make the work a better place.

I still think it's human nature to kick into self-preservation mode when encountering a threat. That's how we are designed. It's neither right or wrong, it just is. I dunno, maybe I'm just too much of a pessimist.

[Tapioca]

It's sad, I agree.

But I forgot who posted it, but in another thread someone wrote that the world is operated out of selfishness. You have food on ur table because the farmer/butcher/fishermen are selfish and want your money. They do not work their asses off to make the work a better place.

I still think it's human nature to kick into self-preservation mode when encountering a threat. That's how we are designed. It's neither right or wrong, it just is. I dunno, maybe I'm just too much of a pessimist.

Okay, so that person read Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan. I'd like to believe we're a little more sophisticated and learned than savages.

[JesseBlue]

talk is cheap....do something about it...

[moomooCow]

It's sad, I agree.

But I forgot who posted it, but in another thread someone wrote that the world is operated out of selfishness. You have food on ur table because the farmer/butcher/fishermen are selfish and want your money. They do not work their asses off to make the work a better place.

I still think it's human nature to kick into self-preservation mode when encountering a threat. That's how we are designed. It's neither right or wrong, it just is. I dunno, maybe I'm just too much of a pessimist.

I think whoever you're paraphrasing was speaking more in terms of the world's economy. Everyone looking out for their own self interests is generally how the economy works but you can't apply this same principle to the way you live your life.

I understand where you're coming from when you say you should probably consider all the risks you're taking but as someone else mentioned earlier, what happens if the tables were turned and you were the victim? People have got to stop being so selfish... if you apply this to the whole skytrain, you now have a load of people against two guys.

[q0192837465]

Such as? I would argue that as a man, he has no choice but to stand up for what's right.

You also neatly presume that the victim does not have life insurance. Most people, even working for large companies which pay wages of $12/hour, provide their employees with some form of life insurance.

I do respect your firm stance on standing up for what is right. The world will definitely be a better place if more people do what you preach.

As for the life insurance, do you really think it's going to make things right for the family? Kids losing their father, wife losing her husband? At the end of the day, it's a matter of whether it is worth it or not. From my experience with this world, more often than not, people will think it's not worth it.

Yeah, it is an extreme case and rarely does this happen.

Most petty criminals are not stupid. If you think about it, they choose to "negotiate" (i.e. threatening someone with a knife or gun) because they do not want to resort to the messier alternative which is to shoot or stab someone (which is far easier to do to get what they want.) If someone stands up to them and says something, or acts in a way that makes it less easy for them to get what they want (i.e. pushing the silent alarm, calling the police, etc.), they will move on and find an easier target.

In your scenario, if I were to succeed, I wouldn't expect more than a thanks. It's not about me; it's about my role in upholding society's morals.

Btw, if I were to "accidentally" stab him, it would be a criminal offence, not a civil one. The last time I checked, you are allowed to use a "reasonable" amount of force to defend yourself from attacks. I would be able to defend myself (with a good lawyer) in court, and in all likelihood, I would be acquitted considering the circumstances, likely media attention, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you should only help because of a reward. That's just low. What I'm trying to say is that there's always a risk of failing at what you intend to do. If you succeed, great. But if there is a chance of failure, wouldnt it be wise to be prepared for it just in case? Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. All I'm trying to say is, is it worth it? If your answer is yes, all power to you, we should have more people like you. But again, from my experience with this world, the answer is, more often than not, no.

I'm not justify anything, just trying to bring out the other side of the story.

[ecchiecchi]

^ But like what was said so many times- You don't have to be a hero. You don't have to drop kick the thugs and try to beat them up. You don't have to wrestle them to the ground. You don't have to be hero of the year. Just do something, anything.

In the 2 situations discussed in this thread, is there one where the only way to help them is to pull a bravado and beat them up? I don't think so.

With the case of the old man, what could have been done?
- Press the silent alarm
- Get off the train and tell the security who the thugs are (point at them)

In the case of the stabbed bum
- Call 911/ambulance
- Try to stop the bleeding

It's common sense that you don't wrestle with these guys- who would? But there's always something you can do. Violence isn't the only way to deter these people.

And honestly, If I got fired over saving/trying to help someone, good fucking riddance- I'd gladly look for another job.

If I know I could have done something, and I didn't- I'll die a little inside.

[welfare]

look; i'm not going to quote all the fails of this thread. this is life. i think many of us have lost sight as to what that is. once upon a time it meant honor over death. what is the use of prolonging a life of cowardess? i mean, don't people get it? it's not about a hero mentality; it's about not being afraid to do what you know is right.
and yes, i am crossing the line of opinion. as this subject calls for it