[StylinRed]

edit: # of deaths up to 19 so far

So there's this huge group of international ppl (hundreds of doctors, former government officials/congressman of the US/UK etc, activists, hippies, university students etc) who are always trying to bring Aid into the Gaza Strip through the sea

This time around there were 700ish people in 7 ships bringing in 10k tonnes of Aid

Israel has vowed to deny them entry into Gaza but today they attacked the convoy while it was still in International Waters and killed at least 10 people

Israel claims they were attacked when they stormed the ships like pirates.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm
There's some video too @ the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB6BxmZ9krs

The BBC Video shows more Action of them beating some guy and while he tries to push em back he holds the guys gun.. but luckily they didnt shoot him for that (at least it wasnt recorded)

Israel offered to deliver the aid themselves on their own grounds

Israel allows 15k Tonnes of aid to flow into Gaza every Week; However the United Nations & The Red Cross says that is far below the necessary levels (they say 15k tonnes a week is only 1/4 of what is needed for all the people living in there)




edit: this Flotilla was allowed through safely, numerous times in the past... and there was never any attack by members on board why would they use knives, axes, guns (as Israel is now claiming) this time?
Also there was Live-Streaming of the confrontation by the Aid Flotilla and filming done by the Israeli Military and there was no indication of aid members with weapons/let alone guns.. there was evidence of some resistance (from being beaten)


edit2: Nobel Laureate, Holocaust Survivors, European Officials confirmed Aboard

somewhat of a disclaimer: made the post the moment the story hit the news so my postings are somewhat emotional + perhaps incoherent; but i won't edit the posts or else i'll get flamed for changing em

[jackmeister]

License to kill in international waters? Since when did blockading AID was legal?

All Arabs better figure out to settle their differences and show Israel who's boss there. They're just taking advantage of the fact that the Middle East very disorganized.

[StylinRed]

lol whut

i meant the israelis acted like pirates (attacking/storming a fleet of ships in international waters)



The Israeli officials are now saying they were fired upon as well :rolleyes:


The news is saying "off the coast of Israel, in international waters" but GPS data is shown (granted its from the Charities website) That the flotilla was much closer to the coast of Cyprus



edit: Israels Foreign Affairs department is saying This Flotilla is associated with terrorist groups; and the Humanitarian Aid was not for Humanitarian purposes... ROFL; there are European MLAs etc on board...
The Foreign Affairs dpt. is now saying if they allowed Humanitarian aid through it would mean the deaths of many many thousands of people... jesus christ

Tune into The BBC you can hear this clown


They're refusing to reply to statements about The United Nations and the The Red Cross saying there is no where near enough Aid going through

[G-spec]

All I wanna know is where the fuck was the Turkish army through all this, a few hours ago I was reading something where they vowed they would protect the ships possibly with military support, and I was fully expecting some Call of Duty cargo tanker type shit to happen. Guess they pussied out last second, I'm ashamed to have turkish blood runnin through my veins on this day



http://www.dignews.com/legacy/screenshots/call_of_duty_4_cons_02.jpg

[BlacknJean]

this means war!

[El Bastardo]

Israel's really steppin' it's shit up these days. Not to say I support the Palestinians at all but Israel may see some dark days ahead.

[m!chael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMRdAMY6bmE&feature=player_embedded

They didn't attack the soldiers at all brah. You're totally right. /sarcasm

@jackmeister, lol dude you're a fucking fool

[StylinRed]

^^^^ if you went to the BBC site and watched the video like i said you'd see the full clip of that scene and that soldier was severely beating someone on board and was pushing him into that room... when that person started whacking him with a stick

and i even made mention of the incident in my OP "luckily they didn't shoot him"


Also you're dismissing the fact that they attacked the ship in the middle of the night in International Waters... that's like saying Japanese fisherman retaliating against whaling activists is wrong...

Or people defending themselves against Somali pirates is wrong...


(the video also doesnt show who attacked, physically, first; however Israels boarding IS a form of attack considering the international waters)



edit: in regards to Israel allowing 1/4 of the minimum aid needed for the Gaza Strip inside; Israel doesn't allow construction materials (cement, tools, lumber, u name it) into the area... this is after Israel blew the majority of Gaza into rubble...
supposedly they don't allow coffee and treats into the area as well (so its weeded out of aid packages)

[JDMontego]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h272/jdmontego/flag_israel_nazi.gif

[LiquidTurbo]

The headlines are so different from where you read it from.

"Israeli forces storm Gaza aid convoy"
"Israelis on ship acted in self-defence: Netanyahu"

"Deadly Israeli raid on aid fleet
Up to 19 people killed after troops storm flotilla of ships trying to break Gaza siege."

"Israel Murders Members of Aid Flotilla"

Interesting.

[Meowjin]

greek people have been killed, huge protest on granville.

israel is not getting out of this one easily.

there was a huge protest group that was going around on facebook but it has seemed to vanish off my facebook

[Meowjin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMRdAMY6bmE&feature=player_embedded

They didn't attack the soldiers at all brah. You're totally right. /sarcasm

@jackmeister, lol dude you're a fucking fool

i'm glad a shaky video and some random video that could have been shot anywhere is purpotrated as evidence.

I can't believe your back with your so pro-zionist views. I'm glad you believe that israel can just call any group "pro islamist, link to al-queda"... it seems to be the general cop out today to justify any action.

YOU'RE THE TOOL.

[m!chael]

i'm glad a shaky video and some random video that could have been shot anywhere is purpotrated as evidence.

I can't believe your back with your so pro-zionist views. I'm glad you believe that israel can just call any group "pro islamist, link to al-queda"... it seems to be the general cop out today to justify any action.

YOU'RE THE TOOL.

The part with the idiot hitting the soldier was taken from BBC news. You can go on their site and view it.

I'm kinda confused as to why you can't believe im back with my pro-zionist views, im pro-zionist. I'm not really surprised at you coming back with ani-zionist views in every thread.

It has nothing to do with "Pro islamist, link to al-queda." You might be a fucking racist, which most greeks i've met are, but other people aren't like that. It has nothing to do with the group supporting islam, and I doubt they were linked to al-queda. It has to do with them entering a blockaded area. They were instructed to go to the port of Ashdod. Once checked for weapons and the likes, that aid will be transferred to Gaza through the land crossings, UNDER the supervision of the people who were on the boat.

This whole entourage of idiots was just there to instigate shit. They literally had the opportunity to get the aid to Gaza under their supervision and with no confrontation, but they chose to confront the Israeli army. AND, they attack Israeli soldiers that board their ships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&feature=player_embedded

According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, of 12 June 1994, Section 98:

"Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked."

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JMSU

[Graeme S]

There are no winners in the Israel/Palestine fights. The biggest losers, however, seem to be the Palestinian civilians. Not being allowed to build homes because the materials are the same as that to build bunkers bites ass. Not having enough food, or the ability to build up an economy because factories that build electronics or vehicles can be repurposed for the military.


I am not saying that there is any right or wrong in this discussion as far as we can decide, not having been there ourselves. For those of you who have lived there, please speak up--I'd be really interested to see how it is on both sides of the lines.

The question I have is how much of the stuff that was sent by ship was going to be let through if they did land appropriately? How much would get denied?

Also, another question: Are humanitarian aid vessels considered merchant vessels? It seems that given there were politicians on the ships that they were at least to an extent sponsored by legitemate States, so can the argument that they were aid vessels be made?

[StylinRed]

m!chael Israel doesn't allow construction materials into Gaza; they refuse it as "aid" even though Israel destroyed/damaged almost all buildings in Gaza.

The Flotillas Aid materials included Mobile Housing, construction materials, medicine, etc. Israel WOULDN'T ALLOW this through.

Israel limits the aid into Gaza @ 10-15k Tonnes a week (they include energy as a part of that tonnage).. The United Nations and the International Red Cross as well as numerous other humanitarian organizations state that this is @ most One Quarter (1/4) Of the Minimum Aid NEEDED for the amount and condition of the people in Gaza

Pro-Israelis and the Israeli government refuse to address this... they just dismiss it and state that "we allow aid through".


Pro-Israelis ALSO dismiss the fact that Israel attacked civilian charity ships IN International Waters... do they not realize how outrageous that is???

But then Israel is always doing the outrageous and ignoring international law and no one cares; so i guess they figure they would get away with this too.



CTV news showed a local BC man is on the aid flotilla i think he's a part of a Jews For Free Palestine group (or named something similar to that) they showed his groups protest and they were carrying a big sign saying that.

It's not known if he's dead or alive.



edit: imagine if Iran attacked an International Aid Fleet in International Waters

[m!chael]

m!chael Israel doesn't allow construction materials into Gaza; they refuse it as "aid" even though Israel destroyed/damaged almost all buildings in Gaza.

The Flotillas Aid materials included Mobile Housing, construction materials, medicine, etc. Israel WOULDN'T ALLOW this through.

Israel limits the aid into Gaza @ 10-15k Tonnes a week (they include energy as a part of that tonnage).. The United Nations and the International Red Cross as well as numerous other humanitarian organizations state that this is @ most One Quarter (1/4) Of the Minimum Aid NEEDED for the amount and condition of the people in Gaza

Pro-Israelis and the Israeli government refuse to address this... they just dismiss it and state that "we allow aid through".


Pro-Israelis ALSO dismiss the fact that Israel attacked civilian charity ships IN International Waters... do they not realize how outrageous that is???

But then Israel is always doing the outrageous and ignoring international law and no one cares; so i guess they figure they would get away with this too.



CTV news showed a local BC man is on the aid flotilla i think he's a part of a Jews For Free Palestine group (or named something similar to that) they showed his groups protest and they were carrying a big sign saying that.

It's not known if he's dead or alive.

Construction material is not allowed into Gaza because Hamas uses it to build bunkers and launch pads for rockets.

The infrastructure in Gaza was damaged as a result of Israel responding to the thousands of rockets which were launched into it's southern area.

It's funny how Hamas can smuggle in Arms and rockets but not food for it's people. And for real, If Gaza can have olympic sized pools and fine dining restaurants, I'm pretty sure it has the ability to take care of it's people. Too bad it chooses not too.

Brah, if you use the international waters argument one more time I'm gonna build a machine that allows me to bitch slap people over the internet and then use it to bitch slap you. Look at the law I highlighted in my previous post. It doesn't matter if it's international waters. Those ships were approaching blockaded waters and were refusing to change their course.

How fucking stupid do you have to be. Seriously.
To be honest, you strike me as the type of guy who would start coming onto my property after I've repeatedly told you not to, and then go cry to your mommy when i knock you out for it.

Israel get's away with shit. The international magnifying glass is always on Israel, even though i can probably find ten other countries doing much worse things at this moment. Not saying that it justifies any wrong doing Israel does, I'm just saying you shouldn't say that Israel gets away with shit.

I could care less that he's from BC or that hes a part of that group. I dislike people dying no matter where they're from.

Last thing I want to say. If Palestinians in Gaza decided to stop supporting terrorism, their lives could improve dramatically. Not saying that all Gaza residents support terrorism, I'm sure plenty of them are moderates. If you actually go to the West Bank you will see that life there is much better than most places in the middle east and as much as they like complaining, they do enjoy their freedoms and quality of life.

[Meowjin]

Haha michael is such a tool
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Ferra]

greek people have been killed, huge protest on granville.

israel is not getting out of this one easily.

there was a huge protest group that was going around on facebook but it has seemed to vanish off my facebook
lol..israel doesn't give a fuck about what the international communities think
all you people can "condemn" it and hate it all you want...as long as it doesn't affect them in a realistic and materials way, they don't give a shit

and israel has such powerful military strength, no countries will want to confront it physically

kinda reminds of a thing I read about hilter....hilter will agree and sign any agreement or peace treaty to please you...after all it is just a signature, and that wouldn't make any difference when his tanks roll up your front door.

[m!chael]

Haha michael is such a tool
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Lol you know I'm right so you resort to name calling, what a fucking loser. :thumbsup:

[belka]

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JMSU
see 67(a)

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

Fact is, that "Aid Flotilla" knowingly set sail towards waters that were blocked. If they diverted into Israel and offloaded there where the "aid" was to be searched then moved by land into Gaza, like offered by Israel, this situation would have never happened. The people on that Turk boat were just looking to get into a confrontation.

[Manic!]

http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JMSU
see 67(a)



Fact is, that "Aid Flotilla" knowingly set sail towards waters that were blocked. If they diverted into Israel and offloaded there where the "aid" was to be searched then moved by land into Gaza, like offered by Israel, this situation would have never happened. The people on that Turk boat were just looking to get into a confrontation.

Most countries do not recognize the blockade. Countries cannot just throw up blockades and expect everyone to follow. The US hasn't even said the blockage is legal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10200351.stm

some text from the article.



"Members of the UN Security Council have condemned Israel ahead of an emergency session over Israel's deadly raid on a flotilla of ships carrying aid to Gaza."

"Many - including veto-wielding members France, Russia and China - also demanded an end to the Israeli blockade on Gaza which the aid ships were trying to break."

""The US is deeply disturbed by the recent violence and regrets the tragic loss of life and injury suffered among those involved in the incident last night, aboard the Gaza bound ships," he said. :

[StylinRed]

m!chael your whole post basically says "i dont care" and includes some false & generalized information along with assumptions.

That's why MajinHurricane called you a "tool" and stopped it there because he'd be short of killing himself if he tried explaining it to you.. It'd be like telling this guy :noob: why he's a tool or telling :IDL why he isn't a balla there's just no way

The mere fact that other areas of the world may face harsher conditions is moot and contestable.

as for this comment How fucking stupid do you have to be. Seriously.
To be honest, you strike me as the type of guy who would start coming onto my property after I've repeatedly told you not to, and then go cry to your mommy when i knock you out for it.
That's also erroneous Gaza isn't Yours (israels); a more realistic example would be...

I'm walking on the sidewalk headed towards your neighbours House... you run out and tell me to fuck off and while your doing so your already beating me.

See how crazy that fucking sounds?




http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JMSU
see 67(a)



they weren't "breaching a blockade" you have to realize legalize is very specific and they weren't breaching anything @ that time.
(granted in law there are points that are too general; but they are heavily contested/ridiculed and eventually readdressed)

[StylinRed]

Once Again the USA steps in to protect Israels actions

Security Council calls for impartial investigation of Israel's deadly raid on flotilla
The Associated Press Jun 01, 2010 07:09:55 AM

The U.N. Security Council called early Tuesday for an ``impartial'' investigation of Israel's deadly commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip and condemned the ``acts'' that resulted in the loss of at least nine lives.

After an emergency meeting and marathon negotiations that lasted nearly 12 hours, the 15 council members finally agreed on a presidential statement. It was weaker than what was initially demanded ... because of objections by the United States, Israel's closest ally...

http://news.sympatico.cbc.ca/world/security_council_calls_for_impartial_investigation _of_israels_deadly_raid_on_gaza_flotilla/c0d71fc0 long article

[StylinRed]

Some passengers are returning and those who are politicians got some words out

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least 10 people.

German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.

Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self defence.

The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry.

The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.

"This was not an act of self-defence," said Mr Paech, a politician, as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket.

"Personally I saw two and a half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.

"This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.

Mr Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes".

"We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon."

She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality."

Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara.

"The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."

Meanwhile, in Nazareth, Israeli Arab MP Haneen Zuabi - who was on the flotilla - told a press conference that Israeli forces began firing while still in the helicopters hovering over the ships.

"We are calling for an international committee to investigate this tragedy," she said.

Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience.

UN criticism

Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday.

In an interview with the AFP news agency he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid.

"Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized.


* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.





ugh i keep forgetting to post the links

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm



Finklesteins a really interesting speaker, some of his videos have been posted before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB_CKL5h2_8

[Ch28]

According to the military and geopolitics site Defencenet an armada of Turkish warships is heading to the shores of Israel

Read the translated article:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defencenet.gr%2Fdefence%2Findex .php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D1 2445%26Itemid%3D139&sl=el&tl=en

By the way, Google Translate sucks (as always)

For the original:
http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12445&Itemid=139

[StylinRed]

escorting the seized ships back?

[m!chael]

m!chael your whole post basically says "i dont care" and includes some false & generalized information along with assumptions.

That's why MajinHurricane called you a "tool" and stopped it there because he'd be short of killing himself if he tried explaining it to you.. It'd be like telling this guy :noob: why he's a tool or telling :IDL why he isn't a balla there's just no way

The mere fact that other areas of the world may face harsher conditions is moot and contestable.

as for this comment
That's also erroneous Gaza isn't Yours (israels); a more realistic example would be...

I'm walking on the sidewalk headed towards your neighbours House... you run out and tell me to fuck off and while your doing so your already beating me.

See how crazy that fucking sounds?






they weren't "breaching a blockade" you have to realize legalize is very specific and they weren't breaching anything @ that time.
(granted in law there are points that are too general; but they are heavily contested/ridiculed and eventually readdressed)


All my points are valid and come together form an overall argument. None of it is generalized nor false. The problem is that you can't hold a simple debate without resorting to childish cries and comparing me to the 14 dolla balla. (please don't compare me to him).

Here's a video of weapons they found on the ship. All of which they used to attack the incoming soldiers. Note the metal pipes, the knives, and slingshots. The fact that they had rocks collected in bottles is alarming. Did they plan out this whole confrontation or what. Why would they have all this shit if they were going in "peacefully."

Second half of the video is the weapons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM&feature=player_embedded

[belka]

Why would they have all this shit if they were going in "peacefully."

They didn't plan on going peacefully, they just wanted another excuse to make Israel look bad - poking the sleeping dog. All they are doing is provoking Israel into a military retaliation, and if that happens, the bad guys usually die, spectacularly.

[StylinRed]

"why would they have all this shit if they were going in peacefully"

out of 7 cruise liner sized ships

they found a tables worth of hammers, wrenches? kitchen knives, a couple fishing knives... what looks to be a decorative knife... some broken wooden oars.... some wooden slingshots.. what looks to be a bottle of grease? (maybe its some Anthrax?!)

They didn't even show the usual Captains/xo's gun that you would find aboard ships....


I could go through any personal sized leisure ships in our ports and find more "weapons"

like i said explaining anything to you would be like trying to explain something to 14dollaballa or BradfordChow

I haven't cursed @ you, you have... or resorted to saying i could kick the shit out of you, you have...


That video reminds me of the USA and their Iraqi WMD's farce



Face it m!chael your a zionist

[Alatar]

Moira of toyrkikoy Navy consisting of four frigates previously joined to exercise in the West and South of Crete and thereafter were reaching the port of Alexandria, arrived yesterday morning at the port of Cartagena in Spain and is expected to depart for If. Mediterranean. If a query is piped from Taranto or pleysoyn directly. In the new-paroxysmo othwmanismoy, Turkey reached point threatened new ships with humanitarian aid which will be sent to the Gaza Strip will escort warships of the Turkish Navy!

The Squadron consisting of two frigates MEKO-200 t, two o.h.perry (TCG Kemalreis, TCG Turgutreis, Gaziantep, TCG Giresun TCG) and the oil tanker "AKAR" and belong to the strength of the Turkish Mediterranean Sield task force. O Living force commander. Mücahit Şişlioğlu, interview on the frigate Gaziantep (h. Perry), yesterday in Spanish media, said that "follow the events and will act accordingly.

This is obviously going to absolutely unpredictable consequences.

Of course the Ankara will not venture beyond bermpalismoys to proceed to do so unless they decide to sacrifice beyond 10-20 extremists, as happened yesterday and some frigates. Israel has demonstrated that he means what it says.

Information from the Tel-Aviv reports that have been shelved all programs defense cooperation between the two countries and is also subject to continue traditions of systems.

The fact that all of the dead, even if it was not only peaceful activists, was a Turkish origin and on Turkish boat, considering the Turkish public opinion.

As is well known from yesterday, Turkey has withdrawn the Ambassador from Tel Aviv, while outside the threat escort ship ahead, threatened and unprecedented, incalculable retaliation ".

At least the Vice-President of the Turkish Prime Minister Bulent Arintz explained speaking in TRT ' cannot declare war-this would not be correct. Of course, and wanted to declare war could not have a common border and a "war" would be limited to aeronautical incidents known the outcome for the fate of the Turkish air force beforehand ... at the same time, the armed forces of Israel declared a State of alert pending possible missile attacks by Hezbollah in Lebanon.

The Arab Union has convened an urgent meeting today Tuesday to settled on a common policy towards Israel.

Egypt leant to terminate its blockade of Gaza and know our country stopped yesterday the common ellinoϊsrailini exercise Minos 2010.

At present, there has been no official response from the USA, which are the closest ally of Israel.

Here's a different translation of it. A bit clearer.

[m!chael]

"why would they have all this shit if they were going in peacefully"

out of 7 cruise liner sized ships

they found a tables worth of hammers, wrenches? kitchen knives, a couple fishing knives... what looks to be a decorative knife... some broken wooden oars.... some wooden slingshots.. what looks to be a bottle of grease? (maybe its some Anthrax?!)

They didn't even show the usual Captains/xo's gun that you would find aboard ships....


I could go through any personal sized leisure ships in our ports and find more "weapons"

like i said explaining anything to you would be like trying to explain something to 14dollaballa or BradfordChow

I haven't cursed @ you, you have... or resorted to saying i could kick the shit out of you, you have...


That video reminds me of the USA and their Iraqi WMD's farce



Face it m!chael your a zionist

That's from the one ship that they boarded big guy. That bottle is a Molotov cocktail from what I can deduce, and those are weapons. If I attacked you with those and severely hurt you do you think I could use the same "oh those aren't really weapons" argument and get off scot free?

Damn right I'm a zionist, a pure blooded Israeli zionist at that and I'm gonna join the IDF when I'm done with university, as did many of my friends, and as will my children for generations on. And I'm saying for generations on because Israel isn't going anywhere. It's here to stay big guy, as much as you hate the idea of that. And that's actually why at the end of the day I win. Because no matter what you say, or how much e-arguing we do, my country exists and is going to for many many years.

Face it StylinRed, you're just an angry leftist.

[cressydrift]

^ What a joke.

[vitaminG]

All my points are valid and come together form an overall argument. None of it is generalized nor false. The problem is that you can't hold a simple debate without resorting to childish cries and comparing me to the 14 dolla balla. (please don't compare me to him).

Here's a video of weapons they found on the ship. All of which they used to attack the incoming soldiers. Note the metal pipes, the knives, and slingshots. The fact that they had rocks collected in bottles is alarming. Did they plan out this whole confrontation or what. Why would they have all this shit if they were going in "peacefully."

Second half of the video is the weapons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM&feature=player_embedded

i dont like taking sides in this debate but all im seeing are literally sticks and stones, along with some other basic gear like flares, knives, and wrenches according to isreal i must have a full arsenal of weapons in my garage... what if they found my shovel, or my hockey stick?!?!

[m!chael]

i dont like taking sides in this debate but all im seeing are literally sticks and stones, along with some other basic gear like flares, knives, and wrenches according to isreal i must have a full arsenal of weapons in my garage... what if they found my shovel, or my hockey stick?!?!

You're totally right man. Problem is that they used these weapons on the soldiers that boarded the ship...
Imagine you start hitting an rcmp officer with a metal pipe, or pull a knife on him..

[Manic!]

You're totally right man. Problem is that they used these weapons on the soldiers that boarded the ship...
Imagine you start hitting an rcmp officer with a metal pipe, or pull a knife on him..

If you don't want to get attacked don't try to illegally board someones ship in international waters. Common sense.

It's like someone breaking into your house and shooting you and then calming it was self defense because you hit him with a bat.

[El Bastardo]

For all of you in the North/South Korea thread -

If theres something that could lead to a serious war; its this.

[Tegra_Devil]

jews got some trouble coming.....and all they can do is blame themselves

probably not the smartest thing to attack soldiers with sticks though...they probably gonna shoot you...

[m!chael]

jews got some trouble coming.....and all they can do is blame themselves

probably not the smartest thing to attack soldiers with sticks though...they probably gonna shoot you...

Why you mad though?

[belka]

jews got some trouble coming.....and all they can do is blame themselves

Oh? From where is this "trouble" going to come from? We all know what happens when the Arabs attack Israel - major pwnage. Israel's enemies don't have a chance in hell in a conventional war, all they can do is sit back and launch home made rockets.

[Tegra_Devil]

Israel is the reason terrorists try to get nukes..

[ericthehalfbee]

This is what happens when two groups of people who don't really know the intentions of the others get thrown together in a highly volatile situation.

It's like having a room full of cops and mobsters all pointing guns at each other. Then one guy fires a shot for whatever reason (even accidentally) and the next thing you know everyone's shooting.


Both sides are equally at fault. The flotilla for ignoring warnings (for several days) and heading toward Gaza and the Israel army for boarding the ship at night and in such an "in your face" fashion.


Imagine how different this could have turned out if it happend in the middle of the day with clear visibility and everyone being able to see what was going on?

[belka]

Israel is the reason terrorists try to get nukes..

Terrorists are the reason why Israel HAS nukes. If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there will be no more war, if the Jews put down their weapons, there will be no more Israel.

I'm so glad that religion can help bring peace to people's lives. It's the best thing man has ever created.

[Tegra_Devil]

Israelis are terrorists

[impactX]

Israelis are terrorists

and Hamas aren't.

[cressydrift]

I'm so glad that religion can help bring peace to people's lives. It's the best thing man has ever created.

You keep telling yourself that.

[StylinRed]

Terrorists are the reason why Israel HAS nukes. If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there will be no more war, if the Jews put down their weapons, there will be no more Israel.

I'm so glad that religion can help bring peace to people's lives. It's the best thing man has ever created.

Then Israel shouldn't try selling Nukes to other countries ie South Africa, during the Apartheid Era regime

It was always suspected but dismissed as conspiracy but confidential South African documents were just released that shows Shimon Peres made a deal with South Africa to do just that... along with chemical/biological weapons aka Weapons of Mass Destruction

It's all over the news this past week.. except for televised mainstream western media (just google it)

The only reason South Africa didn't follow through with the deal was because they couldn't afford it.

However they DID BUY Tritium

but this is straying from the topic @ hand

[Meowjin]

Here's a different translation of it. A bit clearer.

tourkikou = turkish in greek.

also like how I say I dislike zionists and I get called a racist.

its no diffrent saying that because I dislike the KKK (because they want a free white american country) that I'm racist.

[Manic!]

More Aid Ships Headed To Gaza, And Possibly The Turkish Navy As Well.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/more_aid_ships_headed_to_gaza_and_possibly_the_tur kish_navy_as_well

[belka]

More Aid Ships Headed To Gaza, And Possibly The Turkish Navy As Well.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/more_aid_ships_headed_to_gaza_and_possibly_the_tur kish_navy_as_well

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd151/pushok85/daTOh.jpg

The Turks must have a death wish. The Israeli Navy will get some good training in the coming weeks.

Israelis are terrorists

Probably the most idiotic thing I've heard. Thanks for playing.

[Manic!]

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd151/pushok85/daTOh.jpg

The Turks must have a death wish. The Israeli Navy will get some good training in the coming weeks.



Probably the most idiotic thing I've heard. Thanks for playing.

Then the Turks will close all the US airbases on there land and Israel will lose the only people in the middle east actually on speaking terms with them.

[Ferra]

The Turks must have a death wish. The Israeli Navy will get some good training in the coming weeks.

Israelis are terrorists

Probably the most idiotic thing I've heard. Thanks for playing.
how is that idiotic? terrorist is really just a name one side call the other side when they take extreme measures and do selfish and destructive acts to achieve their goals.

Israel does just that. They would blatantly kill millions of innocent civilians in order to help their Zionist cause, in a grossly disproportionate level.

and if you really love your country, i suggest you start shutting up.
All your glorifying of the "mighty" israeli army and your ethnocentrism is only making everyone hate you and your people more.

[Noir]

Israel does just that. They would blatantly kill millions of innocent civilians in order to help their Zionist cause, in a grossly disproportionate level.

And what's the zionist cause? To eradicate Palestinians from the face of the earth?

[belka]

how is that idiotic? terrorist is really just a name one side call the other side when they take extreme measures and do selfish and destructive acts to achieve their goals.

Israel does just that. They would blatantly kill millions of innocent civilians in order to help their Zionist cause, in a grossly disproportionate level.

and if you really love your country, i suggest you start shutting up.
All your glorifying of the "mighty" israeli army and your ethnocentrism is only making everyone hate you and your people more.

I'm not Israeli...anymore. Do you even know the meaning of Zionism, because clearly you don't. If Israel really wanted to they could take take over most of the middle-east - Syria, Lebanon, Jordon would be gone in weeks. They could kill millions with a few nuke strikes or just put Gaza out of their misery and carpet bomb that shit hole...if they wanted to. The only murders in that area are Hamas, Hezbollah and their supporters - Iran. It's sad, even pathetic, to see generation after generation of Arab lives lost due to this hatred of the Jews. Fact is and as much as you don't like it, Israel isn't going anywhere.

[Ferra]

And what's the zionist cause? To eradicate Palestinians from the face of the earth?
I see the zionist cause simply as their people wanting a country of their own. And i believe they should have the right to do that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea.

It is "how" they are doing it most people do not agree with.

[Phat_R]

Middle East peeps have been killing/raping/pillaging/hating each other for millenia over a piece of ramshackle desert that only they care about.

I say let them fight if they are that fucking stupid.

They will all be dead

Problem solved

[Ferra]

They could kill millions with a few nuke strikes or just put Gaza out of their misery and carpet bomb that shit hole...if they wanted to.
They already did that back in 2006....with cluster bombs that basically turned into land mine when many of them did not explode on impact.

[bengy]

Why the fuck do Jews want Israel anyway. They've already got America.

Greedy fucks.

[Noir]

I see the zionist cause simply as their people wanting a country of their own. And i believe they should have the right to do that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea.

It is "how" they are doing it most people do not agree with.

They already do have a country of their own.

[StylinRed]

They already do have a country of their own.


They don't think its enough.. that's why they're occupying land and developing it

and slowly taking more and more (as with their "wall" which cuts through more land that isn't theirs)



Through their zionist ideals they committed terrorist acts (killed brits; palestinians; bombed restaurants etc etc everything we see terrorists do in present day they were doing in our grandparents/great grandparents era)

After they got the land they started throwing everyone out (christians, muslims, etc)... It even caused massive Hate/prejudices for their own Sephardic Jews..
(Its like immediately after the European Pure Race bullshit that caused so many of them to die; they adopted the same rhetoric... only in Israel; hell they attempted to develop an Ethnic Cleansing Weapon, which would kill many Jews as well)


And then there's the countless human rights violations since then to present day to 'defend' their ill-gotten country (along with acts to attain more parcels of land)


So yeah if Jews want a place to call their own... fine... it should have been in Europe but none of those guys were prepared to give anything up... so they chose a desert and it worked perfectly since the Jews consider that their land, based from their Religion.

But since they have Israel now how about trying to cope with the situation peacefully?? You have Nukes... you won't be attacked... Don't antagonize the extremists or go down to the tit-for-tat tactic (which many times they are the "tit")

You might say they have to defend themselves.... but again many times they are the cause (Israels attacks aren't always retaliatory, far from it). Don't occupy and encroach on land that hadn't already been defined as yours... (how do you expect someone not to attack you, or be driven to, when you decide you want to build an apartment in THEIR backyard. Or a WALL through their fram. or when you drop white phosphorus on them that melted through their childs body)



How do you justify to yourself; look at yourself; live happily; tell your children... what you did to get this land? and what you're doing to maintain and grab more land?

They try to make it seem like some story of disaster and heroism and if you're ignorant and gullible or just wanting to believe; then it might make sense and garner all your passion for the 'cause'.

But if your honest to yourself and investigative you'll find the atrocities abhorrent and lose any faith in anything you hear supporting that countries actions (valid or not)

And that's why there are many, many People, Jews, Israelis around the world who are against Israels actions.

FYI I'm well aware that not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists support the methods of their State.



/delirious rant

[StylinRed]

Why haven't we gotten any names / information of those who've been murdered??

hell we couldn't hear enough of "Neda" when she was killed in the fray of protesters in Iran




Netanyahu called the Flotilla group who Terrorists who were planning to enter Gaza and kill countless Israeli soldiers.. and said those who were murdered wanted to be martyrs... jesus christ...

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/video-on-netanyahus-facebook-page-says-activists-plotted-a-terrorist-attack/

[belka]

I don't even know where to start with StylinRed's post. You are grossly misinformed.

When Israel was formed as a country they didn't kick anyone out. The only reason most of the Arabs left was because the leaders promised a quick and swift victory to "push the Jews into the sea". After the quick defeat those Arab leaders turned their back on the "Palestinians" in Gaza and the West Bank. The Arab world needs the Palestinian problem as a scapegoat and a reason to hate Israel. Do you honestly believe if Israel stopped their expansion into the West Bank and the Palestinians got their own state/country (which btw, was rejected by Arafat during the Camp David summits without a counter offer) that there would be peace between Israel and her neighbors?

So yeah if Jews want a place to call their own... fine... it should have been in Europe

What does Europe have anything to do with this? Why not we just give them Eastern Canada instead? The Jewish homeland and Israel belongs where it is now.

[m!chael]

They don't think its enough.. that's why they're occupying land and developing it

and slowly taking more and more (as with their "wall" which cuts through more land that isn't theirs)



Through their zionist ideals they committed terrorist acts (killed brits; palestinians; bombed restaurants etc etc everything we see terrorists do in present day they were doing in our grandparents/great grandparents era)

After they got the land they started throwing everyone out (christians, muslims, etc)... It even caused massive Hate/prejudices for their own Sephardic Jews..
(Its like immediately after the European Pure Race bullshit that caused so many of them to die; they adopted the same rhetoric... only in Israel; hell they attempted to develop an Ethnic Cleansing Weapon, which would kill many Jews as well)


And then there's the countless human rights violations since then to present day to 'defend' their ill-gotten country (along with acts to attain more parcels of land)


So yeah if Jews want a place to call their own... fine... it should have been in Europe but none of those guys were prepared to give anything up... so they chose a desert and it worked perfectly since the Jews consider that their land, based from their Religion.

But since they have Israel now how about trying to cope with the situation peacefully?? You have Nukes... you won't be attacked... Don't antagonize the extremists or go down to the tit-for-tat tactic (which many times they are the "tit")

You might say they have to defend themselves.... but again many times they are the cause (Israels attacks aren't always retaliatory, far from it). Don't occupy and encroach on land that hadn't already been defined as yours... (how do you expect someone not to attack you, or be driven to, when you decide you want to build an apartment in THEIR backyard. Or a WALL through their fram. or when you drop white phosphorus on them that melted through their childs body)



How do you justify to yourself; look at yourself; live happily; tell your children... what you did to get this land? and what you're doing to maintain and grab more land?

They try to make it seem like some story of disaster and heroism and if you're ignorant and gullible or just wanting to believe; then it might make sense and garner all your passion for the 'cause'.

But if your honest to yourself and investigative you'll find the atrocities abhorrent and lose any faith in anything you hear supporting that countries actions (valid or not)

And that's why there are many, many People, Jews, Israelis around the world who are against Israels actions.

FYI I'm well aware that not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists support the methods of their State.



/delirious rant

You actually don't know what you're talking about, at all. This all comes down to you being mad that Israel is stylin' on you

[vitaminG]

no point discussing whether isreal should exist or not, its a little late for that. but with regards to the attack on the flotilla i had a couple points to make.

1) given the scenario of a protest ship, why did they send in soldiers without less than lethal options, they had paintball guns and sidearms, no riot gear, tear gas, shields or batons? Imagine RCMP got hit by a rock or stick by some protestors during a riot, its not like come out with MP5's to mow them down. What kind of planning and tactics are they using here?

2) This is a turkish flagged ship, with mostly turks on board. I think given that turkey is the ONLY country in the region that israel is on good terms with they should use a bit more discretion when dealing with them and not just treat them like terrorsists. I dont see them doing the same thing to a US flagged ship full of americans. Turkey is a member of NATO and has one of the largest armies in the world, they are good to have as friends and i certainly wouldnt want to severely piss them off if i was isreal.

[StylinRed]

What does Europe have anything to do with this? Why not we just give them Eastern Canada instead? The Jewish homeland and Israel belongs where it is now.

What does europe have to do with this?? you clearly have no clue...

But im not arguing about changing where Israel is now; Im saying fine Israel is where it is and what it is now, stop, lets move from that as it can't be changed and the rest was spelt out in my post

If you wanted to argue about where Israel is now being the Jewish Homeland would be to argue religion as the Jews claim to it is based on some thousands of year old story.
So A) we would have to accept religion B) we would have to accept the accuracy of your religion
And i'm not interested in that as I have no issue about where Israel is now as it cannot / should not be changed


Your saying the christians muslims arabs etc left the area which is now Israel of their own volition... and it had nothing to do with the violence and pressure enacted by the Jewish terror groups? (im not even speaking of the war in particular even though that resulted in a large exodus of the natives)

You're trying to dismiss it as a "tragedy of war"; just like how Israel dismisses all the civilian deaths when "targetting terrorists" but i can't accept that i'm sorry (and neither should you)

That would be like saying Saddam didn't kill kurds they just died of gas inhalation

[m!chael]

My boy Glenn Beck nails it

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/41437/

[LiquidTurbo]

bahahahhaha. owned.

Israel Official MFA photostream.. they tweeted about these pics. :rofl:

http://i.imgur.com/u9Kul.jpg

[StylinRed]

^^^^ wow... something must be wrong with that one because i dont think israelis are that stupid


Apparently the IDF had a "hit list" of people to target, capture? kill?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4657618458_7db1e0e706_b.jpg

its supposedly just been reported in Turkish media and its hitting the blogs now (but all these blogs are referring to sources but not linking to them)
Turkish sources and media revealed a document which shows that a death list had been prepared in advance by the Israelis, showing names and pictures of people on board of the ships to be murdered, who, according to Israel, were “involved in the International humanitarian aid for Gaza”. According to the Turkish sources, hundreds of Israeli soldiers stormed the blue Turkish ship “Marmara” flotilla and they had copies of the death list. The list included the names of civilians on the fleet who should be killed”. The document was apparently recovered after one of the Israeli soldiers lost it during the piracy act.


On another note Turkey says there are members of the flotilla who are Missing; they are not the ones who were killed and no word of their whereabouts are available

[tool001]

Netanyahu called the Flotilla group who Terrorists who were planning to enter Gaza and kill countless Israeli soldiers.. and said those who were murdered wanted to be martyrs... jesus christ...





good watch , about the people on board... ..


http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/ID=1511681807

[van_driver]

My boy Glenn Beck nails it

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/41437/

"Your boy" Glenn Beck is on FOX NEWS. Need I say more?

Buddy, you are better off watching korean dramas when you are looking for news, than watching anything on Fox.

[StylinRed]

good watch , about the people on board... ..


http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/ID=1511681807

love cbc at least they showed both sides but i'm not to keen on them using edited clips from Memri; but still the report was fair (netanyahu still called em terrorists though)


The commercial that started before i was like "lol wtf is this"


That gazan professor looks like Ahmadinejad with a fake beard :haha:

[Meowjin]

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd151/pushok85/daTOh.jpg

The Turks must have a death wish. The Israeli Navy will get some good training in the coming weeks.



Probably the most idiotic thing I've heard. Thanks for playing.

Turkey's Population = 73 million

Mandated Conscription.

Israel Population = 7 Million.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Meowjin]

Your saying the christians muslims arabs etc left the area which is now Israel of their own volition... and it had nothing to do with the violence and pressure enacted by the Jewish terror groups? (im not even speaking of the war in particular even though that resulted in a large exodus of the natives)


Anyone who denies this is an idiot.

[StylinRed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAKN9SqEXOM



edit: 1 of the murdered is a US Citizen (tune into CNN now)

[MoBettah]

Turkey's Population = 73 million

Mandated Conscription.

Israel Population = 7 Million.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

You clearly have no sense of how powerful Israel's military is. Some of their in house technology is even more advanced than the Americans... including their fighter jet radar systems.

[Meowjin]

You clearly have no sense of how powerful Israel's military is. Some of their in house technology is even more advanced than the Americans... including their fighter jet radar systems.

I don't think you have a sense of numbers


Turkish Military

Fit for
military service 17,223,506 males, age 16-49 [2],
16,995,299 (2009 est.) females, age 16-49 [2]

Israel Military

226,903 males, age 17–49 (2000 est.),
1,192,319 females, age 17–49 (2000 est.)


The turks arn't riding around on camels with scimitars, and they have had several skirmishes with greek air force since the 50's.

[StylinRed]

The Turks Airforce and Navy is quite formidable

and the sheer size of the military and proximity to Israel would mean that if a war did break out (i highly highly highly highly highly highly doubt that it would) israel would most certainly have to use their Nukes (and judging from the past they'll have no qualms in doing so)

[tool001]

I don't think you have a sense of numbers


Turkish Military

Fit for
military service 17,223,506 males, age 16-49 [2],
16,995,299 (2009 est.) females, age 16-49 [2]

Israel Military

226,903 males, age 17–49 (2000 est.),
1,192,319 females, age 17–49 (2000 est.)


The turks arn't riding around on camels with scimitars, and they have had several skirmishes with greek air force since the 50's.

you do know that foot soilders dont hold the same value in a full scale was as it use too?
most full scales wars are about air Superiority/blockades, once u have that, rest falls in place.

israel does bosts highly advanced conventional weapons. (unconfirmed nukes 20+ warheads). And needless to say they have had more realtime war exp. than any other nations, except US.
that said,
a full blow war is not gonna be good for any side..

[StylinRed]

you do know that foot soilders dont hold the same value in a full scale was as it use too?
most full scales wars are about air Superiority/blockades, once u have that, rest falls in place.

the proximity of the two makes grunts completely relevant; and as for air superiority Turkey has the 3rd largest airforce in the world and they've been involved in every major engagement since the world war (the first one)

(granted their jets are a bit old; all the new ones lightnings typhoons won't be delivered until later this year and next)

they've got quite a lot of air defense too yada yada



we're really straying and considering something less likely than the USA not vetoing any UN action against Israel :P

[m!chael]

I really hope Turkey and Israel don't go to war. It's gonna be detrimental to my vacation plans this summer.

However, if they do go to war, Israel is gonna destroy Turkey. This isn't gonna be one of those Gaza operations where Hamas guys are dressed in civilian clothing, snipers hiding on top of mosques, booby trapped houses type shit. This will be conventional warfare. You can count on Israel destroying the Turkish air force withing the first day and then wreaking destruction on Turkish ground forces. But to be honest I really hope that doesn't happen.

[belka]

Your saying the christians muslims arabs etc left the area which is now Israel of their own volition... and it had nothing to do with the violence and pressure enacted by the Jewish terror groups?

A lot left because they didn't want to live in a "Jewish State" and a lot left because of violence and pressure. Now, in today's Israel anyone can live and work freely regardless of race or color. Jews still have it better but you have to remember its THEIR country. Do Israeli's have the same rights to enter any country they wish? NO. Algeria, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Yemen all deny entry of anyone with an Israeli passport OR an Israeli stamp. Who hates who more?

You're trying to dismiss it as a "tragedy of war"; just like how Israel dismisses all the civilian deaths when "targetting terrorists" but i can't accept that i'm sorry (and neither should you)

I accept "civilian" deaths when they are used as WILLING human shields by Hamas. They hide their factories and rocket launch sites in schools and hospitals to gain sympathy from the delusional anti-Israeli protestors. Of course most Canadians, including the clueless activists, can't even imagine what it's like, yet they jump on the anti-Israeli bandwagon and espouse anti-Israeli sentiment because it's the hip thing to do. They want to lift the Gaza blockade and let in the flowers and chocolates, and missiles from their friends in Iran, giving Israel a legitimate reason to finally level it. One wonders if any of them even know what Hamas' priorities are, they must honestly think that Hamas is some kind of peaceful movement of secular reformers who care about their people's welfare.

Turkey's Population = 73 million

Mandated Conscription.

Israel Population = 7 Million.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

How are you gonna get all those 73 million Turks into Israel, march them through Lebanon? Swim? If the unlikely war between Israel and Turkey broke out, it would be a slaughter, Israel would own the sky, and in like all modern wars, you own the sky, you own the war.

[m!chael]

the proximity of the two makes grunts completely relevant; and as for air superiority Turkey has the 3rd largest airforce in the world and they've been involved in every major engagement since the world war (the first one)

(granted their jets are a bit old; all the new ones lightnings typhoons won't be delivered until later this year and next)

they've got quite a lot of air defense too yada yada



we're really straying and considering something less likely than the USA not vetoing any UN action against Israel :P

I don't think it has to do much with technology as the quality of the pilots. I know in Israel pilots are the cream of the crop of the entire country. My buddy almost became one. He got hand picked after graduating high school because of his scores on standardized testing done in the 12th grade. He also has a soldier profile of 100 percent. That means that physically, emotionally, psychologically, hes as close as it gets to a perfect human being. He almost finished the course but got cut at the end. I'm sure if he joined any other airforce he would have been the top gun.

[Graeme S]

OK, how about this:

Those of you who have an interest in this (minus all the "these guys do this" and "those guys did that") give a brief summary of the history of Israel/Palestine as you see it, from the creation of the dual states until now?

I know there's plenty of bitterness, but how about we talk about the whole history rather than just recent rocket attacks and all that?

[BaoXu]

Don't mess with Israel

reasons being

1) God's on their side
2) They have nuclear weapons.

[tool001]

OK, how about this:

Those of you who have an interest in this (minus all the "these guys do this" and "those guys did that") give a brief summary of the history of Israel/Palestine as you see it, from the creation of the dual states until now?

I know there's plenty of bitterness, but how about we talk about the whole history rather than just recent rocket attacks and all that?

history? in this case, depends on from where you are looking at it..:haha:

[belka]

OK, how about this:

Those of you who have an interest in this (minus all the "these guys do this" and "those guys did that") give a brief summary of the history of Israel/Palestine as you see it, from the creation of the dual states until now?

I know there's plenty of bitterness, but how about we talk about the whole history rather than just recent rocket attacks and all that?

1800 years after baby jesus died, everyone in that area known as the land of Palestine, NOT country, lived in peace. They composed of 85% Muslims, 10% Christians and the rest Jews. An extreme minority of the Jewish population - Zionists, decided to colonize this land to eventually create a Jewish homeland. With more and more Jews coming into that area the locals - Muslims, got upset so violence broke out. More and more Jews settled in that area after the whole holocaust thing and Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries. More violence and killing.

In 1947, the UN decided to intervene and that's where shit hit the fan. Rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land. Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land.

The Arabs declared war and promised to "push the Jews into the sea".

1947-1949 war. Basically, Israel conquered 78% of the Palestinian land resulting in 750k refugees.

1967 "Six day war". Israel conquered more land - the remaining 22% of Palestine (Gaza and West Bank), parts of Egypt - since returned and parts of Syria.

We come to today. Palestinians still think they have a "right of return" to what was once their land and to what belongs to Israel now.

Don't mess with Israel

reasons being

1) The US is on their side.
2) They have nuclear weapons.

Fixed.

[m!chael]

That's pretty accurate cliffs lol
Just a side note, the land that they allocated to the Arabs was basically the best and most arable land. If you check out pictures of the west bank, for reals, it's a beautiful area. So green and nice. On the other hand, most of Israel is a fucking desert, and the agricultural land we have right now took a lot of work to create.

[van_driver]

I really hate arguing over the internet because I really believe actions speak louder then words so i'm not going to rip apart your entire post. But this part really pissed me off.

1800 years after baby jesus died, everyone in that area known as the land of Palestine, NOT country, lived in peace. They composed of 85% Muslims, 10% Christians and the rest Jews. An extreme minority of the Jewish population - Zionists, decided to colonize this land to eventually create a Jewish homeland. With more and more Jews coming into that area the locals - Muslims, got upset so violence broke out. More and more Jews settled in that area after the whole holocaust thing and Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries. More violence and killing.



You make all muslims look like barbarians by saying that. You really think all the muslims were like "fuck this, theres too many jews here, lets start killing 'em"? That's like saying, one day the locals of vancouver - the whites, got upset that there were too many asians so violence broke out.

Put down the crack and grow the fuck up. Step back for a second, put yourself in their shoes (Israelis and Palestinians) and think again.

[Meowjin]

I really hate arguing over the internet because I really believe actions speak louder then words so i'm not going to rip apart your entire post. But this part really pissed me off.




You make all muslims look like barbarians by saying that. You really think all the muslims were like "fuck this, theres too many jews here, lets start killing 'em"? That's like saying, one day the locals of vancouver - the whites, got upset that there were too many asians so violence broke out.

Put down the crack and grow the fuck up. Step back for a second, put yourself in their shoes (Israelis and Palestinians) and think again.

well chinatown riots is a good example.

[vitaminG]

People are fucking stupid, Isreal and Turkey will never fight a war. Turkey is a NATO member. The NATO charter states that an attack on any NATO member is considered to be an attack on all. Turkey has nukes on its soil through NATO. So there is basically ZERO CHANCE of there ever being a war between the two countries.

[StylinRed]

"People were tied up and left bound for 25 hours he said. They were not gentle with they way that they tied his hands. Other people had it much worse; he saw some savage beatings at the hands of Israeli soldiers."

Kevin Neish that victoria resident who was aboard the ships
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/62457--kevin-neish-returning-to-canada-after-being-detained-in-israrel

he's just been released and in Turkey atm

[belka]

You make all muslims look like barbarians by saying that.

I didn't not say that, if that's how you see it then fine. The muslims or palestinians in that area chose to act with violence and start fighting and got their asses handed to them in a few decades and lost pretty much everything. I'm not saying they started everything and I don't know who fired the first shot nor does it matter now. What I do know now is that the palestinians will NEVER get their own freedom until they elect someone into government that isn't a recognized terrorist organization by pretty much every country in the world. Time for them to wake up to reality or face another 50 years in squalor and poverty. The future is in their hands, it is they who need to grow the fuck up.

Put down the crack and grow the fuck up. Step back for a second, put yourself in their shoes (Israelis and Palestinians) and think again.

Been there, done that, that country was not for me. Have you lived in either of those area's? If not, shut the fuck up. You have no idea what's its like to live there so your arguments are moot.

[Ferra]

I don't think it has to do much with technology as the quality of the pilots. I know in Israel pilots are the cream of the crop of the entire country. My buddy almost became one. He got hand picked after graduating high school because of his scores on standardized testing done in the 12th grade. He also has a soldier profile of 100 percent. That means that physically, emotionally, psychologically, hes as close as it gets to a perfect human being. He almost finished the course but got cut at the end. I'm sure if he joined any other airforce he would have been the top gun.
Number of soliders, military readiness, weapons arsenal, intelligence & logistic..etc, etc
none of these things matter when 2 nuclear armed countries go to war..neither side will ever win. The losing side will simply unleash their entire stockpile of nuke...they won't even need an ICBM in this case since they are right next to each other.

[StylinRed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iyjyDKcPSI

[Levitron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

[gdoh]

you know what i don't get is how this is supposed to be an aid ship yet when the military come aboard the ppl on board the aid ship start attacking the military. normally if you are doing nothing wrong o have nothing to hide you dont start to attack the military and expect them not to shoot you or fight back. i think there is more to this then we know

[Ch28]

you know what i don't get is how this is supposed to be an aid ship yet when the military come aboard the ppl on board the aid ship start attacking the military. normally if you are doing nothing wrong o have nothing to hide you dont start to attack the military and expect them not to shoot you or fight back. i think there is more to this then we know

so you're saying if you're on a ship with a bunch of buddies and people board your ship without permission or you knowing that you wouldn't fight back?

[Gumby]

so you're saying if you're on a ship with a bunch of buddies and people board your ship without permission or you knowing that you wouldn't fight back?
If they have guns, of course I wouldn't fight back...

[gdoh]

they come on with guns and are trained to kill i would prolly not wana test them

[Ch28]

they come on with guns and are trained to kill i would prolly not wana test them

it's the middle east

they're OG like that.

[Valour]

I think they need to hand out fizzy bubbly-pop to everyone... and a litre of hummus.

[gdoh]

it's the middle east

they're OG like that.

oooo now i understand lol

[m!chael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQuB8XmRKZ4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmZjJRsOlZc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxY7Q7CvQPQ&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFGuwUGaI9o&feature=related

Notice In the first video the soldiers were using paint ball guns, not live ammunition. Live ammunition was used only after the 'peace' activists fired on the soldiers.

[m!chael]

Oh and the first video was shot by one of the passengers of the ship.

[choda]

Fuck Palestine

[StylinRed]

we've all seen those videos m!chael

the flotilla passengers defending their ship isn't an issue of contention anymore and quite frankly there's nothing wrong with it
but your "live fire" video is complete horse shit and there was no evidence found that there was any firearms on the ship as far as i am aware...
And Israel has edited all videos its released as reported by the majority of news groups (why don't they release video of the actual killing of the passengers?)

the whole issue still remains Israel attacked a foreign ship (known to be carrying aid) in international waters and subsequently murdered 9 people... this is a clear act of piracy no matter how you look at it.

You can't claim self-defense when you are the attackers.




Fuck Palestine

hmm... interesting. not only are you anti Iranian, your anti Palestinian
yet you claim to be a persian who strives for freedom in your native country...

can't really put much weight in anything you say now when your willing to "fuck" palestinians who want the same thing as you and fight for it as your people in Iran do; not to mention the palestinians are in a far bleaker situation

[DuhDang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wslHVtmk3E

[choda]

hmm... interesting. not only are you anti Iranian, your anti Palestinian
yet you claim to be a persian who strives for freedom in your native country...

can't really put much weight in anything you say now when your willing to "fuck" palestinians who want the same thing as you and fight for it as your people in Iran do; not to mention the palestinians are in a far bleaker situation

Ya, I can see your logic there but let me explain it to you this way. Iran does not like Israel (I actually love Israel and have been there). Israel does not like Palestine. If Israel keep this shit up with Palestine, then Iran may attack Israel and the US will get involved and then bye bye Iran and their regime. It may be a very big long shot, but I'm going to stick to what I said earlier and Fuck Palestine. :)

[m!chael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkCNbvq6ORw&feature=player_embedded

[m!chael]

Buddy wrote this. The beginning just explains why he doesn't support Israel blindely. Keep reading on it gets pretty dope.

Jonathan Lerner: A THOROUGH ANALYSIS OF THE FLOTILLA ISSUE

I would like to take this opportunity to relay my thoughts on the current Flotilla issue involving Israel in what I believe to be a well thought-out and practical approach.

I wish to begin by stating that I am a secular Jew and my support for Israel is not reliant on any form of purely religious doctrine which would be subject to many standard forms of logical refutation and/or reliant on circular arguments. Rather, my support for Israel is both historically based and practical in nature. I base my support for the state of Israel on the same criteria I would any other: pragmatic considerations of policy and ideological foundation.

My long-term and general support for Israel is based off of numerous facts regarding its nature which are perhaps not widely acknowledged or known:

- Israel is the only true and consistent secular democracy in the Middle East.

- Israel is a major bastion of women's rights having had a female head of state long before most 'modern' nations and obviously before the United States.

- Israel is also a bastion of homosexual rights allowing gays to serve openly in the military since the mid-1990's and recognizing same-sex marriages performed in other countries, such as Canada. Israel also allows for gay adoption and provides extensive support for the gay community. Indeed, when orthodox persons threatened violence at a pride parade a few years ago, Israeli authorities provided so much security for the parade that there were more police than participants - all to ensure the right of the parade attendees.

- Israel is a leader in technological advancement and does not hinder its progress based on religious doctrine. Indeed, Israel has more medical breakthroughs per capita than any other country on Earth. It is also has the greatest number of foreign (non-US) companies listed on the NASDAQ.

- Israel is a leader in environmental policy with companies which have provided hybrid energy alternatives since the 80s and is the ONLY nation in the world to enter the 21st century with a net gain in trees.

- Israel is a leader in humanitarian aid in Africa and around the world.

For these reasons and others I am a strong supporter of Israel's existence and security. This does not mean, however, that I am a 'blind' supporter, such as those who follow a religious doctrine without any consideration for its merits. My support of Israel's individual actions are on a case-by-case basis and I am fully prepared and even happy to admit her failures. Like any other nation, Israel is capable of making mistakes. I am fully prepared to recognized these. What is important to note is that Israel has a fully secular and impartial judicial system which oversees its government and which routinely inspects the country's actions. I also believe that Israel is held to a double standard which no other country faces.

That being said, i would like to move on to the next topic which is...

THE BLOCKADE OF GAZA:

The blockade of Gaza is neither enjoyable nor positive for Israel. Indeed, it costs the country millions of dollars every year (which could otherwise be spent on social services, etc.) and incalculable damage to its international reputation. Rather, the blockage is one of unfortunate necessity and prudence.

It is an approximately 3-year old policy of Israel to maintain a blockade of Gaza and it is done due to the smuggling of numerous arms into the territory for Hamas. Hamas is an entity with much blood on its hands; not just of Israelis but of citizens of many countries including Canada, the United States, etc. Indeed, it is listed as a terrorist entity by Canada, the US, the entire EU, Japan, Australia, and many many others. The smuggling of weaponry and military equipment from rocket launchers, to AK-47s, to night-vision goggles prompted the blockade, which has been successful in reducing the armaments of Hamas (although much weaponry is still smuggled-in by Iran and Syria through a network of complex tunnels).

However, it is extremely important to note that, despite what may be said in biased media reports, the blockade is NOT an all-out ban on aid/goods in and out of Gaza. Rather, the blockade is a method of screening goods to make sure no military hardware/weaponry is being smuggled in. Indeed, enough aid is provided by Israel to Gaza every year to equal 1 ton for every man, woman and child in the territory. In fact, the 'aid' aboard the flotilla was but a small portion of what flows into Gaza every single WEEK.

Shipping aid into Gaza is not very difficult; Israel is very accomodating. Many organizations, whether they be the UN, Oxfam, the Red Cross, Save the Children, Amnesty International, etc. constantly ship wares into the territory. What the blockade entails is that shipments by sea must stop in a nearby Israeli port for screening before being transferred to Gaza. Indeed, this is the exact deal which was offered to those operating the flotilla: dock in Israel, have the goods of the ship inspected for weaponry and then all of the aid will be delivered to Gaza free of charge. But those in command of the flotilla refused to dock in Israel and have their cargo inspected. Makes you wonder how serious they could have been about delivering this aid?

And that leads to the next topic:

THE FLOTILLA:

I do not believe that the Flotilla was a true humanitarian mission. If the activists aboard truly wanted their aid delivered there were a multitude of methods by which it could have been delivered in a much faster and more cost-effective manner, including using a third-party NGO or even taking Israel up on its offer to ship the aid for free from the nearby port. Taking any of these avenues would have allowed the aid to reach Gaza much more quickly and also saved plenty of money which could have been spent on future shipments. Indeed, even after the incident at sea Israel shipped the aid into Gaza after it was properly inspected.

Rather, the Flotilla was/is an incredibly smart and intricate PR stunt designed to grab the attention and sympathy of the world. It left Israel in a catch-22 situation and led to an international incident. Some may say that I am being insensitive by saying this, since people died in this stunt. While the loss of life is highly unfortunate and deeply regrettable it does not change the facts or make the motives of those in charge of the Flotilla any less cynical. While I am sure that there were genuinely concerned and mislead people aboard those boats, the organizers of the Flotilla and the majority of its passengers were fully aware of their actions and what they were attempting.

It is worth noting that these were supposed to be cargo ships which should require only a small number of passengers to manage the vessels; the majority of loading and unloading of cargo would be fully assisted on shore. Yet, around 700 passengers were onboard. Many of them brought no identification (I wonder why) and carried thousands of dollars in cash. They also brought with them the equipment for molotov cocktails, large military knives, stun grenades, batons and other weaponry. These seems highly strange for 'humanitarians' to carry. I have never heard of any Red Cross, Oxfam or other workers bringing such items with them when delivering their cargo.

The video evidence is also incredibly clear: before the Israeli soldiers even boarded the ship (when they were merely pulled-up beside it) soldiers were being hit with stun grenades, metal chains and sharp objects. Once the soldiers entered the ship they were immediately attacked with knives, batons, etc. Video shows the direct stabbing of soldiers. Others grabbed the pistols of the soldiers and began shooting. Now if I was here on Canadian soil and I was in a gathering of some kind and my friends were beating and stabbing police officers and I grabbed a gun from the holster of an officer I would have to be a complete and utter moron to expect not to be shot. Not only that but the police officer who acted in that way would probably be praised for his heroism and given a promotion. But if an Israeli soldier or police officer does the same they are called murderers.

A similar double standard is held to the intervention itself. If six ships were headed for Canada's coast and there was no way of verifying what was on board, and these ships repeatedly refused to have their contents screened through the standard procedures, we as Canadians would not only expect but want the Canadian Forces and RCMP to intercept the vessels.

Instead, Israel is labeled an aggressor. But what kind of aggressor would arm its soldiers with paintball guns. Not even rubber bullets! The only live rounds carried by the soldiers were in holstered pistols ordered to be used as a last resort. This does not seem particularly aggressive to me. What is aggressive are the actions and words of the activists. Evidence shows them shouting "Itbach el Yahud" (slaughter the Jews). But it is very rare for this footage to make its way onto the national news. Instead, we are inundated with interviews of biased sources, such as the activists themselves, without the actual video evidence from the security cameras aboard the ship(s).

There are some who hide behind the fact that Israel boarded the ship in International waters. It is true that the media storm would have been less intense had Israel waited for them to enter Israeli waters. But the details and the motives of the Flotilla would not have been altered by these few kilometers. The same ships with the same people would have been there and they made it immensely clear of their intensions to cross that border. In fact, many cases of International Law are clear that boarding a vessel intending to break a blockade is acceptable even in international waters, provided the motives are clear. Those who harp on the location of the incident are merely distracting from the real issues and are mincing words in a desperate attempt to justify the actions of the activists.

Those detained by Israel were all released within 72hrs (even those who attacked the soldiers and/or had ties to terrorist entities). Anyone requiring medical attention received it free of charge. Aid was sent straight to Gaza.

I would like to now discuss a similar topic:

HAMAS AND THE IHH:

I will begin with a brief discussion of the IHH, one of the main groups behind the Flotilla. The IHH is an organization which is highly political and extreme. The IHH has been linked by French Intelligence services to Al-Qaeda based activities and in plots to target US airports and civilians. It is extremely strange to me that people are so sympathetic to the IHH and its Flotilla considering its other activities.

I have also been asked questions regarding Hamas' election and Israel's trouble negotiating with Hamas. It is important to note that to say that Israel does not negotiate with Hamas would be false. Negotiations (often indirect) are constant and this is how so many cease-fires are brought about. What has not been negotiated is a long-term peace agreement, although this is not a failing of Israel by any means. Any entity (eg. Egypt) which has agreed to come to the bargaining table with Israel has walked away with a peace treaty or similar agreement. There is one important item, however, which these parties agree to and with Hamas does not: Israel's right to exist. Hamas continually refuses to modify its charter to recognize a Jewish state. Its charter calls for the destruction of Israel, the death of its citizens and attacks on all allies (Canada included). It is impossible to have meaningful negotiations when one side refuses to recognize the other's basic existence. I, for example, could not discuss human rights with someone who refused to recognize a gay person's right to an opinion. The discussion would simply break down. It couldn't proceed. This is the stumbling block of negotiating with Hamas.

It is true that Hamas was elected by the Gazans. However, Hamas violently intimidates their opponents to the point of massacre. As well, election does not alter the character of an entity. An elected terrorist organization is still a terrorist organization. And caving to the unruly demands of a terrorist group is a hopeless act. Terrorists cannot be reasoned with in the way a regular group can. They are like a child throwing a tantrum - giving the child what they want will only teach her that she may throw a similar tantrum anytime to obtain her desires. Similarly, agreeing to the demands of a terrorist entity will only encourage future occurrences of the same. It is also worth remembering that election by a populace (especially a scared, brainwashed and coerced populace) does not lend much legitimacy. After all, many violent dictators in Africa and South America (as well as Hitler in Germany) got their start as democratically elected officials.

Canada, the United States and Israel (amongst others) recognize Hamas as having been elected and as the leaders of the Gazan people. But this does not entail that they should remove Hamas from their terrorist lists - Hamas' election does not alter its nature.

THE BLOCKADE OF GAZA:

Is the blockade of Gaza sustainable? Absolutely not. While the people of Gaza receive millions upon millions of tons of aid their living conditions are still not optimal. As well, the blockade costs Israel plenty of money, resources, and reputation. Blockades in general are only temporary stop-gaps to solving problems. HOWEVER, the un-sustainability of the blockade does not mean it should immediately be dismantled. Consider as an analogy our dependance on fossil fuels. It is a terrible situation in which we do harm to the environment and ruin resources we cannot replace. It is not sustainable in the least. But if we were to stop using fossil fuels over night we would face a world-wide collapse and catastrophe. We would have no transportation, no heating, no trade... chaos would ensue. Instead what we need is a thoroughly researched and timed transition from fossil fuels to renewable sources of energy, such as solar power. We need to have a proper transition to avoid collapse of economies and industries (if not society).

To end the blockade instantly would be similarly disastrous and would allow an incredible surge of weaponry bound for Hamas and costs thousands of innocent lives. It would destabilize an entire region and potentially lead to confrontation on a world scale. A removal of the blockade must be done only after negotiations have provided for a government for Gaza which has a peace treaty with Israel and a value for peace in general. A removal of the blockade must be a slow and delicate process.

I hope that this has provided some insight into my views. Feel free to share it with others.

[m!chael]

Yo Stylinbrah why you gotta fail me. I posted that video to ease the tension in this thread :)

[StylinRed]

cuz it eased my tension :P


thats waaaaay too long a read im not that passionate about this :haha:

[StylinRed]

The Rachel Corrie was seized in International Waters as well earlier Nobel Laureate and Former Assistant UN Secretary General were aboard


The Rachel Corrie btw is named after Rachel Aliene Corrie (an american) who was defending a Palestinian Home in the Gaza Strip in protest of Israeli Defense Forces from bulldozing the home

The IDF however decided to crush her with the bulldozer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Rachel_Corrie_2003_March_16_cropped.jpg


Israeli commandos seize aid boat headed for Gaza

...

"We're not prepared to turn around," said Irish Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Maguire, who is aboard the ship. "We are prepared to go straight to Gaza."

"We will stay within the international waters," said Maguire. "If Israel refuses that we get into Gaza and insists on boarding our boat, then we will sit down as non-violent activists. We will be very peaceful. We will not resist the Israeli navy coming aboard, arresting us and taking us by force to [the Israeli port city of ] Ashdod, but we will not turn around. We will keep going."

Organizers said the ship was carrying 550 tons of cement to help rebuild schools, homes and other buildings destroyed in Gaza.

Maguire said the ship was also carrying "tons" of writing materials donated by Norway, pharmaceuticals and medical equipment -- including wheelchairs donated by Scotland -- and toys.

Former Assistant U.N. Secretary-General Denis Halliday, also aboard the Rachel Corrie, said Thursday the passengers had no plans to confront the Israelis.

"We will stand back and show we are harmless and unarmed -- we will put up no resistance," he said. "We're not going to make any silly mistakes."

...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/05/gaza.flotilla/index.html?hpt=T2


Mairead Maguire: Nobel winner, veteran peace campaigner

(AFP) – 17 hours ago

BELFAST — Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Maguire, among activists on an Irish aid boat vowing to reach Gaza on Saturday, is a veteran peace campaigner who is no stranger to run-ins with Israel.

The 66-year-old, who was joint winner of the Nobel prize in 1976 as co-founder of the Community of Peace People movement in Northern Ireland, said those on board the MV Rachel Corrie were "not afraid."

"We started out to deliver this cargo to the people of Gaza and to break the siege of Gaza, that is what we want to do," she said on the eve of the expected confronation with Israeli authorities.

The comments were typical of the combative peace activist, who campaigned for an end to fighting through the depths of Northern Ireland's three-decade long Troubles, which left some 3,500 people dead.

Maguire was born into a Catholic community in Belfast on January 27, 1944, the daughter of a window cleaner father and housewife mother, growing up with five sisters and two brothers.

After leaving school at the age of 16 she worked as a secretary while increasing voluntary activities, culminating in setting up the Peace People which won her the Nobel prize jointly with co-founder Betty Williams.

After that landmark she widened her activities to defending human rights around the world, along the way meeting leaders including Queen Elizabeth II, US president Jimmy Carter and Pope John Paul II.

In 1993 she accompanied six other Nobel Peace winners in Thailand in trying to enter neighbouring Myanmar to protest against the detention of democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi.

Her commitment led her to clashes with authorities on a number of occasions: in 1994 she was expelled from the Philippines after attending a conference on East Timor.

More recently she threw her weight behind the Palestinian cause. In April 2009 she accused Israeli authorities of practising "ethnic cleansing" in East Jerusalem.

Two months later she was arrested by the Israeli army when troops boarded an aid boat heading for Gaza. At the time she was accompanied by former US congresswoman Cynthia McKinney who was also detained, before being deported.

Maried to Jackie Maguire since September 1981, she has two children: John Francis and Luke, born in 1982 and 1984 respectively.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iIL8y1m5Qg2jpc1m8v1UDHeJg76Q

[m!chael]

Rachel Corrie died because she sat on the ground with her legs crossed in front of an Israeli bulldozer and the driver didn't see her. No one decided to crush her, that's just ridiculous.

[tool001]

in the past, Israel has caught arms being shipped to Lebanon for hezbollahhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6903092.ece

what stops IRAN or other countries from shipping arms/weapons aboard ships to GAZA under the aid label .

till other countries. ie. IRAN, SERIA, are supporting hezbollah, things arn't gonna improve.

[StylinRed]

Rachel Corrie died because she sat on the ground with her legs crossed in front of an Israeli bulldozer and the driver didn't see her. No one decided to crush her, that's just ridiculous.

that's Israel's version of the story.

but all the other protesters there and evidence (that picture for example) say otherwise

its wonderful how israel has a simple excuse for everything... nothings ever complex and nothings ever their fault

[bing]

cuz it eased my tension :P


thats waaaaay too long a read im not that passionate about this :haha:

your not that passionate about the issue? yet you sit in here replying to everything.

[Manic!]

Looks like there maybe 2 more flotilla's coming including one with the Turkish PM and the Turkish navy.

[belka]

that's Israel's version of the story.

but all the other protesters there and evidence (that picture for example) say otherwise

its wonderful how israel has a simple excuse for everything... nothings ever complex and nothings ever their fault

She died of terminal stupidity. A 9 year old can outrun a bulldozer, and has the wits to not stand in front of one.

[Manic!]

She died of terminal stupidity. A 9 year old can outrun a bulldozer, and has the wits to not stand in front of one.

I guess you don't understand how a protest works.

[m!chael]

I guess you don't understand how a protest works.

I guess you don't understand how real life works.

Sitting down in front of a huge bulldozer with limited visibility from the inside = death wish

[Manic!]

I guess you don't understand how real life works.

Sitting down in front of a huge bulldozer with limited visibility from the inside = death wish

If you know protesters are there maybe you should be more careful.

[belka]

I guess you don't understand how a protest works.

I guess you are just as dumb as she is...was. Go play in traffic.

[mikemhg]

^^Ever heard of Tiananmen square? It's called a protest you fucking moron.^^

Either way, I see a lot of misinformed people in this thread.

No matter how you cut it, it was proven there were no actual weapons on the ship, read the news. Shots were fired at the people on the boat, BEFORE they Israelis even ziplined onto the ship.

You can argue for hours whether or not the protesters were stupid for fighting back, but it's all a mute point. Israel should not have boarded the damn ship in the first place, it is a clear breach of International Law.

If you sit here and defend them for this, than you have no clue on how important this law is, and how it should be abided by all countries.

Israel should never have boarded this ship, and their acts of aggression are cruel and disgusting. Pull your head out of your fucking asses, and quit drinking the Western/Israeli Propaganda.

Both sides are to blame in this ongoing conflict, but Israel made the wrong move on this one.

[Meowjin]

fucking zionists. you still prove yourself to be a tool

oh and those who brought up the nato bullshit, it seems like israel attacked a turkish ship in international waters.

[El Bastardo]

Both sides are to blame in this ongoing conflict



I think this is the bitter pill that everyone in this thread needs to swallow.

[Noir]

Israel should never have boarded this ship, and their acts of aggression are cruel and disgusting. Pull your head out of your fucking asses, and quit drinking the Western/Israeli Propaganda.

Why not? It's a fucking blockade intended to intercept items deemed a contraband.

It's no different than police officers setting up road blocks when there's an APB or dragnet for an escaped/escaping criminal, or vehicles smuggling contraband.

Will you fight officers who inspect your vehicle because they have no probable cause?

[Meowjin]

Why not? It's a fucking blockade intended to intercept items deemed a contraband.

It's no different than police officers setting up road blocks when there's an APB or dragnet for an escaped/escaping criminal, or vehicles smuggling contraband.

Will you fight officers who inspect your vehicle because they have no probable cause?

international waters.

[Meowjin]

I think this is the bitter pill that everyone in this thread needs to swallow.

No it's not. It's zionists. Anti-Semitism was HUGE in europe prior to wwII. The fact that they gave them a homeland in an area which was anti-semite was retarded in the first place.

Just as many disabled, handicapped, christans were persecuted in deathcamps

[belka]

^^Ever heard of Tiananmen square? It's called a protest you fucking moron.^^

Waaaaa, waaaaa. :cry:

The world is better without idiots like her, more protesters like her should get run over. Maybe she should have asked the terrorist not to blow up a bus and the family home would have been spared. Israel does not play games with terrorists, their families and the Palestinians who voted in a terrorist organization to government in the first place.

In order for the Palestinians to have any chance for a decent future Israel needs to retake Gaza OR have an international force govern and police that strip. It has been made clear to the world that the Palestinians cannot keep their rockets grounded. If the Palestinians or ANYONE here thinks that sending rockets into Israel will bring peace, then they are an idiot. It's the Palestinians who need to wake the fuck up and start acting like contributing members to the international community.

[El Bastardo]

No it's not. It's zionists. Anti-Semitism was HUGE in europe prior to wwII. The fact that they gave them a homeland in an area which was anti-semite was retarded in the first place.

Just as many disabled, handicapped, christans were persecuted in deathcamps



I meant in respect to the 'modern era'

The last 30 years or so.

[belka]

Why don't these aid ships go to ports in Egypt or Israel where it actually stands a chance to get into Gaza? These "humanitarians" don't care about the Palestinians, they just want to get Israel into the headlines for trying to protect their citizens against rocket attacks. Running a blockade will NOT get aid into Gaza and these idiots who run these flotilla ships know this. The blockade is not going away, they need to deal with it or face consequences.

I can't blame Israel one bit. Its a legally enforced blockade to make sure weapons aren't getting to Hamas to be fired at Israelis, that simple. Personally, I think they should stop risking their men by raiding these boats. Instead, one shot across the bow and if they keep coming one shot on target. I think one of those flotilla boats would go under in less than a minute. One warning shot, one kill shot. Perfectly legal blockade, perfectly illegal flotilla.

[Noir]

international waters.

So was the American blockade of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[Manic!]

Why don't these aid ships go to ports in Egypt or Israel where it actually stands a chance to get into Gaza? T

Here is a partial list of items that Israel still denies the population of Gaza:

* sage
* cardamom
* cumin
* coriander
* ginger
* jam
* halva
* vinegar
* nutmeg
* chocolate
* fruit preserves
* seeds and nuts
* biscuits and sweets
* potato chips
* gas for soft drinks
* dried fruit
* fresh meat
* plaster
* tar
* wood for construction
* cement
* iron
* glucose
* industrial salt
* plastic/glass/metal containers
* industrial margarine
* tarpaulin sheets for huts
* fabric (for clothing)
* flavor and smell enhancers
* fishing rods
* various fishing nets
* buoys
* ropes for fishing
* nylon nets for greenhouses
* hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries
* spare parts for tractors
* dairies for cowsheds
* irrigation pipe systems
* ropes to tie greenhouses
* planters for saplings
* heaters for chicken farms
* musical instruments
* size A4 paper
* writing implements
* notebooks
* newspapers
* toys
* razors
* sewing machines and spare parts
* heaters
* horses
* donkeys
* goats
* cattle
* chicks
These are items which have only recently been allowed and the date they were allowed but which the people of Gaza have had to do without for a good while.

In the 1st half 2009 the following was finally allowed in

* wheat
* animal feed
* flour
* cooking oil
* cooking fat
* sugar
* salt
* pasta
* dates
* garlic
* chick peas
* rice
* beans
* lentils
* kidney beans
* margarine
* dairy products
* powdered milk
* frozen meat and fish
* frozen vegetables
* animal medicines
* gas for medical use
* empty bags for flour
* medicines and medical equipment
* female hygiene products
* nappies (diapers)
* toilet paper
* detergent
* washing liquid
* shampoo
* soap
* toothpaste
* toothbrushes
* cleaning products for tiles
* cleaning products for glass
* toilet-cleaner
* yeast
* fertilised eggs
* fruit
* semolina

In June 2009 the following was finally allowed in

* polythene for greenhouses
* agricultural materials

In October 2009 the following was finally allowed in

* tea
* coffee

In November 2009 the following was finally allowed in

* instant coffee
* canned tuna
* salami
* canned meat
* washing-up sponges
* bath sponges
* cloths for mopping the floor
* baby wipes
* other canned goods, with the exception of tinned fruit
* zaatar (dried herb mix)
* sesame seeds
* black pepper
* chicken stock powder
* blankets

In December 2009 the following was finally allowed in

* olives
* matches
* candles
* sticks for brooms
* rubbish bins
* mops
* hand-cleansing gel
* aniseed
* cinnamon
* camomile
* unfertilised eggs
* glass (to a maximum of 200 trucks)
* water-dispensers
* potatoes

In February 2010 the following was finally allowed in

* mineral water

In March 2010 the following was finally allowed in

* tahini (sesame paste)
* combs
* hair brushes
* clothes
* shoes

In April 2010 the following was finally allowed in

* wood (for doorposts and window frames)
* aluminium
* kitchenware

[StylinRed]

^^^ goddamn even i wasnt aware of all the stuff that wasnt allowed or just recently allowed.... SOAP??? Toothpaste Shampoo?!!! my god

your not that passionate about the issue? yet you sit in here replying to everything.

its easy to type replies but arduous to read long posts... i think everyone on rs knows this :P


Why not? It's a fucking blockade intended to intercept items deemed a contraband.

It's no different than police officers setting up road blocks when there's an APB or dragnet for an escaped/escaping criminal, or vehicles smuggling contraband.

Will you fight officers who inspect your vehicle because they have no probable cause?

i'd point it out to you; but i know your smart enough to see why its actually wrong and isn't remotely comparable to your analogy; your more likely just trying to troll :P

[m!chael]

fucking zionists. you still prove yourself to be a tool

oh and those who brought up the nato bullshit, it seems like israel attacked a turkish ship in international waters.

Fucking greeks, still fucking up the EU. Why don't you guys just get your shit together and stop destroying an entire continent's prospects of recovery.

By the way, I have a country, so Zionism won. Suck on this you dirty anti-semite in disguise.

[m!chael]

international waters.

this just proves how much of an idiot you are. You think Israel would let the ship enter Blockaded waters. Just by default, blockading an area of water would mean that any ship that tries to defy it would have to be intercepted in intentional waters. I actually didn't think you were that dumb, but I guess I was mistaken.

[StylinRed]

this just proves how much of an idiot you are. You think Israel would let the ship enter Blockaded waters. Just by default, blockading an area of water would mean that any ship that tries to defy it would have to be intercepted in intentional waters. I actually didn't think you were that dumb, but I guess I was mistaken.

we've already been through this.... they're not allowed to intercept it until its breached the blockade



Fucking greeks, still fucking up the EU. Why don't you guys just get your shit together and stop destroying an entire continent's prospects of recovery.

By the way, I have a country, so Zionism won. Suck on this you dirty anti-semite in disguise.

1. since you are fine with how Zionism won; then you shouldn't care about Hamas' actions you should understand it. (Ehud Barak understands it)
Originially posted by Ehud Barak
.אם הייתי פלסטיני בגיל המתאים, הייתי נכנס בשלב מסוים לאחד מארגוני הטרור
"If I were a Palestinian at the right age, I would have joined one of the terrorist organizations at a certain stage."

2. Israel is always throwing the word "anti-semite" around when someone disagrees with their actions

3. Greece isn't the only source of Europes problems :D

[m!chael]

we've already been through this.... they're not allowed to intercept it until its breached the blockade





1. since you are fine with how Zionism won; then you shouldn't care about Hamas' actions you should understand it. (Ehud Barak understands it)


2. Israel is always throwing the word "anti-semite" around when someone disagrees with their actions

3. Greece isn't the only source of Europes problems :D

1. We already posted the laws. Yes they are allowed to do that. Just because you decided so in your parents' basement doesn't mean its the truth.

2. Idiot. I'm not even gonna acknowledge you just said that.

3. No we don't. I didn't call you an anti semite because I really don't think you are one. That douch bag majin is on the other hand. And he also thinks he can get away with anything he says because he's one of the revescene allstars and he starts a thread for every dumb problem he has. I know this is the internet and we shouldn't take it seriously, which I don't, but it just makes me laugh that a loser like him would never even have the nerve to say that to someone like me in real life because He understands how silly the shit he says is and he knows he would get knocked out by someone eventually.

[m4k4v4li]

i want to fuel this flame war

Israel is pwning n00bs cuz jews have hella Xp + $$... they are the L337 righteous international actors on higher moral ground that can impose its will when they feel "threatened" by palestinians throwing stones across the boarder... oh and theyre pretty good at convincing their overly nationalistic population of this using propaganda/mass media with a splash of religion/zionism

jews need to leave the middle east and go back to germany! ya i went there.

[Noir]

we've already been through this.... they're not allowed to intercept it until its breached the blockade

You may be correct on the bolded portion but before the flotilla was boarded, were they not instructed to divert or alter course?

Obviously if the flotilla refuses, then there really was only 1 intention wasn't it, and that's to breach the blockade.

[m4k4v4li]

So was the American blockade of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

ok?
think u just proved his point

comparing the possibility a vessel MIGHT carry certain things necessary to make primitive rockets =/= an actual nuclear threat... not a very suiting example

this just proves how much of an idiot you are. You think Israel would let the ship enter Blockaded waters. Just by default, blockading an area of water would mean that any ship that tries to defy it would have to be intercepted in intentional waters. I actually didn't think you were that dumb, but I guess I was mistaken.

except what you're preaching goes against international law? :thumbsup:

[StylinRed]

You may be correct on the bolded portion but before the flotilla was boarded, were they not instructed to divert or alter course?

Obviously if the flotilla refuses, then there really was only 1 intention wasn't it, and that's to breach the blockade.

there was no doubt what the intent was... the organizers proclaimed their intent before they even got on the ships

but if israel didn't carry out an act of piracy (which is what they did under "United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea")
there wouldn't be as large an outcry

the validity of those on board defending against the Israeli forces is because they were boarded in international waters (an attack) so they have all the right in their actions.

If Israel boarded them legally; any aggression by members on the ship would support Israels actions... but who knows if they would still have been aggressive when out of international waters

[Meowjin]

Yeah because people that live in palestine should be treated like dogs. I mean who wants to be clean and healthy and educated.

Because you know, oppression only leads into love and peace.

You know you would think zionists would understand what it's like to be treated like dogs.

Give them more nukes, maybe it'll make them more friends.

[ericthehalfbee]

To all the people talking about the ship being boarded in international waters, I have a question.

What if Israel waited a few more hours until the ships were 100 metres inside the blockaded area and then proceeded to board the ships with the same results (people dying).

Would you say they had the right to do so, or would you have another reason to condemn their actions?

[belka]

To all the people talking about the ship being boarded in international waters, I have a question.

What if Israel waited a few more hours until the ships were 100 metres inside the blockaded area and then proceeded to board the ships with the same results (people dying).

Would you say they had the right to do so, or would you have another reason to condemn their actions?

Since Gaza isn't a country or state, how can they own any of the water off their shores?

[murd0c]

This is just a war that has and always will go on. It will get better for a bit then blow out of control like it has now. Gotta love the religion and what it does to basicly destroy countrys in the long run.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Noir]

comparing the possibility a vessel MIGHT carry certain things necessary to make primitive rockets =/= an actual nuclear threat... not a very suiting example

This the first time I'll have to throw an insult but what a retard.

So you're saying the validity of a blockade changes depending on the gravity of contraband?

So nukes are okay, but you think if the rockets are primitive, or if it were only a shipment of AK-47s, or just a containership of cocaine, you don't think those items of contraband should be justifiable of a blockade. Or maybe you're just seeing a difference because it's inconvenient in your villification of Israel?



there was no doubt what the intent was... the organizers proclaimed their intent before they even got on the ships

So if the intent was to deliver aid by breaching the blockade, then what are we arguing about?

[Manic!]

This the first time I'll have to throw an insult but what a retard.

So you're saying the validity of a blockade changes depending on the gravity of contraband?



Yes look what happens with protests in countries like Canada. When 420 protests happen in Vancouver do cops go arrest people because pot is illegal? No because they no better. Just because you are legally right could still mean you are wrong depending on what you do.

Also any country based on religion = fail.

[El Bastardo]

The world is better without idiots like her, more protesters like her should get run over. Maybe she should have asked the terrorist not to blow up a bus and the family home would have been spared. Israel does not play games with terrorists, their families and the Palestinians who voted in a terrorist organization to government in the first place.




Don't dehumanize her because her politics and yours don't mix. This was a person with a family who died because someone else didn't view her as a person too.

No matter what side she supports or who she was protesting against this person's death served no purpose and obviously left a hole in the lives of the people close to her.

Do you treat people who cut you off in traffic and take too long ahead of you in line at McDonalds the same way too?
"The world would be better without idiots like the one ahead of me asking for extra sauce on their McChicken. Fuck McChicken anyway. The Fillet of Fish is the superior sandwich"

Ridiculous analogy but its the same logic you're demonstrating.

[Meowjin]

offtopic but the filet o fish is pretty damn good.

[belka]

No matter what side she supports or who she was protesting against this person's death served no purpose and obviously left a hole in the lives of the people close to her.

Her life served no purpose, just like those scums and terrorists that run Hamas. She had the opportunity to do anything with her life, but she chose to die under a bulldozer. If that is her choice then so be it.

[StylinRed]

So if the intent was to deliver aid by breaching the blockade, then what are we arguing about?

did ye read the thread?? oO


To all the people talking about the ship being boarded in international waters, I have a question.

What if Israel waited a few more hours until the ships were 100 metres inside the blockaded area and then proceeded to board the ships with the same results (people dying).

Would you say they had the right to do so, or would you have another reason to condemn their actions?

look 2 posts above yours... i know YOU didn't read the thread

[Noir]

Yes look what happens with protests in countries like Canada. When 420 protests happen in Vancouver do cops go arrest people because pot is illegal? No because they no better. Just because you are legally right could still mean you are wrong depending on what you do.

Also any country based on religion = fail.

They have every legal right to if they want to.

look 2 posts above yours... i know YOU didn't read the thread

I did read the thread. In all 7 pages, it only boils down to:

Pro Flotilla claiming blockades have no right to intercept a suspected vessel, vs. Pro-Israel claiming that blockades have every right to intercept a suspected vessel.

All this maelstrom of legality, historical backdrop, or moral justification are just community cards in your texas holdem. Whatever arguments you employ, the same kind and quality of an opposing nature is also used against you. Whatever sources or claims you discredit, so does the other side.

[StylinRed]

^^ except the other side is trying to discredit international law agreed upon by all states of the united nations and all maritime travelers

there is no justification in their pov

and i shouldn't say their; m!chael is the only one replying belka is just babbling like a mad man

[RTS]

"aid flotilla" LOL

That's like calling the Hells Angels a "motorcycle club".

Too bad they didn't torpedo the entire flotilla.

[Manic!]

They have every legal right to if they want to.



But they don't because they are smarter than that. We have a 7 page post on RS not because Israel was right or wrong but because they were stupid.

[m!chael]

^^ except the other side is trying to discredit international law agreed upon by all states of the united nations and all maritime travelers

there is no justification in their pov

and i shouldn't say their; m!chael is the only one replying belka is just babbling like a mad man

Dude for real?
Gaza is blockaded, by Israel AND Egypt. Flotilla was about to breach the blockade. They were told to divert to Ashdod. They didn't. They were boarded, but attacked the soldiers. Some of the "peace" activists then died, because of their own stupidity. Not diverting the ship and attacking soldiers. It's that simple, it's their fault.

Pictures of the soldiers who were attacked, released by turkish media. Supports our point of view that the soldiers only fired after being brutally attacked.
http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/GaleriDetay.aspx?cid=36575&p=1&rid=2

And to those who say that arabs in Gaza live an improvised and shitty life, you're idiots. You actually have no mind of your own and believe what any half wit with a megaphone says. Especially you Majin, you're a mindless sheep.
These photos are from Palestine today, it's a palestinian newspaper. The pictures are from Gaza. They are from December, not too long ago and while Gaza was still under the same blockade it is under today. Sure doesn't look like they are lacking anything.
http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html

This is also a nice article in the wall street journal written by a guy who went to the West Bank to witness this "Harsh" life they have.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107104574571491401847518.html

Also, the aid on the ship was found to be mostly useless. Things such as expired medicine and old materials. These are things that Gaza has plenty of. So why did they insist on bringing it to Gaza. It is obvious that it was a provocation, and they got what they wanted.

[mikemhg]

Michael you're the reason why so many folks get extremely angry at hate filled Jews such as yourself.

No one is being an Anti-Semite, stop throwing that ridiculous term around as a strawman.

Your points are about as Pro-Israeli I have ever seen, without an once of truth in the crap you're posting.

Either way, shots were fired before the troops even boarded the ship, this is cooborated by various News Outlets.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/gaza-flotilla-eyewitness-accounts-gunfire

And you posting a link to pictures of a market in Gaza as an example that everything is OK?

Wow, buddy I'm starting to wonder if you're a troll.

[belka]

Your points are about as Pro-Israeli I have ever seen, without an once of truth in the crap you're posting.

The only truth is that religion is a man-made cancer on this world.

[Lomac]

This the first time I'll have to throw an insult but what a retard.

So you're saying the validity of a blockade changes depending on the gravity of contraband?

So nukes are okay, but you think if the rockets are primitive, or if it were only a shipment of AK-47s, or just a containership of cocaine, you don't think those items of contraband should be justifiable of a blockade. Or maybe you're just seeing a difference because it's inconvenient in your villification of Israel?

Cuban Missile Crisis = Cold War = A stalemate of an undeclared war between the world's two most powerful countries.

I would say that a naval blockade by the USA was justified, despite the fact that it might have been in International Waters.

Fucking greeks, still fucking up the EU. Why don't you guys just get your shit together and stop destroying an entire continent's prospects of recovery.

By the way, I have a country, so Zionism won. Suck on this you dirty anti-semite in disguise.

Holy fuck, dude. I grew up in a family where half of my extended family was/is Jewish and they would smack you down if they heard you talk shit like that. It's idiots like you that talk absolute crap like that which make people wonder if it's even worth backing up Israel if the Arabs decided to take another crack at invading their country. My mom's dad would be rolling around in his grave wondering why he didn't shoot more of those "Dirty Jews" (he was a German Nazi) and my dad's mom would be tossing in her grave wondering why some fellow Jewish mother didn't teach her kid some more respect (she was an Austrian Jew).

Seriously, I applaud the fact that you're simply trying to defend Israel, but you're going about it the entirely wrong way. I suggest you take a deep breath before you continue on in this thread...

[StylinRed]

the IDF admitted to doctoring radio transmissions from the mavi marmara that aired them spouting anti-semite/agreesive language

they issued a "clarification" but in that clarification admitted to editing and also they classified transmissions as to have been transmitted by the mavi marmara but in the correction stated they actually don't know where the transmissions came from exactly

sooo not only did they edit transmissions they blamed the Mavi Marmara for those transmissions and admitted they have no idea which ship it came from.. (maybe it came from their own ship)

http://idfspokesperson.com/2010/06/05/clarificationcorrection-regarding-audio-transmission-between-israeli-navy-and-flotilla-on-31-may-2010-posted-on-5-june-2010/

^^^ that website is the IDF's

[StylinRed]

And to those who say that arabs in Gaza live an improvised and shitty life, you're idiots. You actually have no mind of your own and believe what any half wit with a megaphone says. Especially you Majin, you're a mindless sheep.
These photos are from Palestine today, it's a palestinian newspaper. The pictures are from Gaza. They are from December, not too long ago and while Gaza was still under the same blockade it is under today. Sure doesn't look like they are lacking anything.
http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html


The Egypt Gaza border was open for almost 3 months prior to these photos so its no surprise they were able to stockpile supplies / smuggle in what isnt allowed etc etc

not to mention what they're able to get in through tunnels (which i dont agree with but i can understand why they need them)



Your remark is like Hitler or the Nazis saying "look the Ghettos are doing very well, the world's disagreement is ridiculous"

[m!chael]

Cuban Missile Crisis = Cold War = A stalemate of an undeclared war between the world's two most powerful countries.

I would say that a naval blockade by the USA was justified, despite the fact that it might have been in International Waters.



Holy fuck, dude. I grew up in a family where half of my extended family was/is Jewish and they would smack you down if they heard you talk shit like that. It's idiots like you that talk absolute crap like that which make people wonder if it's even worth backing up Israel if the Arabs decided to take another crack at invading their country. My mom's dad would be rolling around in his grave wondering why he didn't shoot more of those "Dirty Jews" (he was a German Nazi) and my dad's mom would be tossing in her grave wondering why some fellow Jewish mother didn't teach her kid some more respect.

Seriously, I applaud the fact that you're simply trying to defend Israel, but you're going about it the entirely wrong way. I suggest you take a deep breath before you continue on in this thread...

Listen. In regards to the first sentence, obviously Greece isn't responsible for the whole mess, but I merely said that to show how silly he is being. "Fuck zionists," are you kidding me? Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it's not black and white like that, and I could do the same back to him. Except when I do it your dad's mom rolls in her grave. Give me a break. It's unfortunate that you think so, and it's unfortunate that they have passed away, but I could care less about it. It's kind of annoying how you throw fact that you have jewish and nazi heritage at me as if it gives you some sort of a special status.

And I know you're saying I'm going about it the wrong way, but listen I've posted up some excellent material and even a pretty lengthy piece, which Stylinbrah didn't want to read because it was "too long." Instead he'll post up some stupid propaganda which the rest of the idiots will eat up. But anyways, You're right. I lost my cool there because I got frustrated and I'll tone it down.

The Egypt Gaza border was open for almost 3 months prior to these photos so its no surprise they were able to stockpile supplies / smuggle in what isnt allowed etc etc

not to mention what they're able to get in through tunnels (which i dont agree with but i can understand why they need them)



Your remark is like Hitler or the Nazis saying "look the Ghettos are doing very well, the world's disagreement is ridiculous"

Obviously residents in Gaza don't have a perfect life. They're under the rule of a crazy terrorist organization that would rather invest in rockets than education and they are under a blockade meant to suffocate that group. Believe me brah It's not as if I don't acknowledge their hardships, I am simply stating that when you think of Gaza you shouldn't think of little kids starving to death like in those African aid commercials. People there aren't dying of starvation and they actually do carry on a somewhat normal life. They even just opened their first olympic sized pool lol

Michael you're the reason why so many folks get extremely angry at hate filled Jews such as yourself.

No one is being an Anti-Semite, stop throwing that ridiculous term around as a strawman.

Your points are about as Pro-Israeli I have ever seen, without an once of truth in the crap you're posting.

Either way, shots were fired before the troops even boarded the ship, this is cooborated by various News Outlets.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/gaza-flotilla-eyewitness-accounts-gunfire

And you posting a link to pictures of a market in Gaza as an example that everything is OK?

Wow, buddy I'm starting to wonder if you're a troll.

1. Hate is a strong word, I was somewhat frustrated but I don't hate anyone, and I hope no one hates me over an internet argument lol

2. I called one guy, out of many that I argued with, an anti-semite. I don't throw that term around at all as a strawman. If you notice it was just directed at Majin because I truely believe he is one. Thats my opinion of him though. I did not use that term as a way to detract from the actual main argument in the thread. After using the term, I continued to post things and debate with stylingbrah. I understand you learned the term strawman and while being really proud of yourself decided to use it but I don't think it belongs here.

3. Various news outlets use the "peace" activists' testimonials and report that. Various other news outlets use the idf version, which to me seems much more likely. One of the videos on youtube shows the soldiers dropping onto the ship, and all the activists are there waiting for them with weapons. If there were shots fired from the helicopters at the activists as the soldiers were coming down, I can't imagine the activists would have stuck there in groups waiting for the soldiers to come down. Neither did I see any activists dropping to the ground after being shot while the soldiers were just boarding their ship. I'm not a detective though so you could just look at the videos yourself and try to deduce that shit.

4. I posted the pictures from the market to show that its not the end of the fucking world there. There aren't thousands of people starving to death there every day as some people make it seem.

5. I guess good job for wondering that?

[LiquidTurbo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z82VocK-C8c&feature=player_embedded


Woot.

http://elespiritudelchemin.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/palestina-israel.jpg

[Noir]

But they don't because they are smarter than that. We have a 7 page post on RS not because Israel was right or wrong but because they were stupid.

Don't kid yourself. That's a logistics issue, not a moral issue where the police force actually believe in freedom of smoking marijuana.

The VPD doesn't have the man power to arrest a congregation of 420 celebrators and that's why the law is not enforced. The IDF however, has the resources to enforce a blockade. So tough shit.

Cuban Missile Crisis = Cold War = A stalemate of an undeclared war between the world's two most powerful countries.

I would say that a naval blockade by the USA was justified, despite the fact that it might have been in International Waters.

Same shit, different pile IMO.

The only difference being that the Cuban Missile Crisis has a closer impact on us territorially but Hamas the rockets don't.

^^ except the other side is trying to discredit international law agreed upon by all states of the united nations and all maritime travelers

there is no justification in their pov

and i shouldn't say their; m!chael is the only one replying belka is just babbling like a mad man

I wish you could just take a step back and realize that you're exactly the same time of person that you hate the most. Neither you nor M!chael are above one another as both of sound the same on different side of the fence.

* Speaks againts your opposition with such righteous conviction.
* Both believe that you have legal justification in both your own interpretation.
* Both believe that historically, you are the wronged party.
* Both discredit each others claims and arguments as false.

You can keep ranting over and over that: "im right, your wrong, im right, your wrong" but you're just too narrow to see that he's doing exactly the same thing as you.

[StylinRed]

^^^ There's only 2 ways to interpret that line of the law.... the right way and the wrong way.

the language is quite clear and precise it makes no indication of intervening before a blockade is breached...



You'd like to point out the obvious that this is going back and forth... but what sort of argument doesnt?

or are you trying to say "you should both shut up cuz its going nowhere" well i'd have to disagree

[Noir]

^^^ There's only 2 ways to interpret that line of the law.... the right way and the wrong way.

the language is quite clear and precise it makes no indication of intervening before a blockade is breached...

This is an argument of semantics. You're speaking that you think a vessel may only be boarded had the vessel breached a geographical line set by the blockade. The others are saying that a vessel may be boarded when it's not responding to directions to divert or alter course from the blockade.

The reason why it's so hard to argue semantics is because I've seen both sides argue the strict verbal translation of the law, and the loose translation of the law. It's as if both sides employ the same strategic argument based on which is more convenient for their cause.

You'd like to point out the obvious that this is going back and forth... but what sort of argument doesnt?

or are you trying to say "you should both shut up cuz its going nowhere" well i'd have to disagree

And I thought you said you weren't heavliy invested in this conflict.

[Ferra]

Her life served no purpose, just like those scums and terrorists that run Hamas.

I guess you are just as dumb as she is...was. Go play in traffic.
how about you show a little respect? think about how her friends and family would feel reading your comments? She died protecting what she believed in, in a peaceful way.

People like you are the reasons why there are Anti-Semitic

[belka]

Woot.

http://elespiritudelchemin.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/palestina-israel.jpg

Since we are throwing up figures.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2861/jewishoccupationofarablandno8.jpg

[Manic!]

Since we are throwing up figures.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2861/jewishoccupationofarablandno8.jpg

and that's what everyone is fighting for? Theirs people that own more land than that.

Why not just move to Canada so they don't have to deal with all that BS. I have Know idea why anyone would want to live their.

[BaoXu]

and that's what everyone is fighting for? Theirs people that own more land than that.

Why not just move to Canada so they don't have to deal with all that BS. I have Know idea why anyone would want to live their.

Because as Canadians, we are occupying NATIVE land.

[El Bastardo]

We share the land peacefully with the natives, acknowledge and support their culture, and provide them with social programs which most regular citizens don't have access to.

Not the same thing

[El Bastardo]

Her life served no purpose, just like those scums and terrorists that run Hamas. She had the opportunity to do anything with her life, but she chose to die under a bulldozer. If that is her choice then so be it.



Your mother's life serves no purpose to me. To me she is as good as a child molester or a racist. She could've become a doctor, a scientist, or a social activist and changed the world for the better. Instead she bore an ignorant child. It was her choice not to abort you (clearly the whore made the wrong choice) and for that I wish her a long horrible painful death as the result of some fatal illness.


/Belka logic

[belka]

Because as Canadians, we are occupying NATIVE land.

What if "Canadians" weren't here and the "Natives" still had control over the entire territory, would Canada still be the same Canada, economically, agriculturally and technologically as it is today?

If Israel wasn't there and was owned by Egypt, Jordon or Lebanon, would any of those countries be able to cover what Israel has developed (technologically) on that small strip of land? The Arabs haven't done much with what they have now...except supply the world with oil.

[Alphamale]

Holy fuck, dude. I grew up in a family where half of my extended family was/is Jewish and they would smack you down if they heard you talk shit like that. It's idiots like you that talk absolute crap like that which make people wonder if it's even worth backing up Israel if the Arabs decided to take another crack at invading their country. My mom's dad would be rolling around in his grave wondering why he didn't shoot more of those "Dirty Jews" (he was a German Nazi) and my dad's mom would be tossing in her grave wondering why some fellow Jewish mother didn't teach her kid some more respect (she was an Austrian Jew).



No offense, but I read this and I LOL'd so hard. :haha:

[StylinRed]

the Red Crescent Society is going to send 2 aid ships to Gaza and.... get this Iran is going to escort them with military ships!

I think its very honourable for them to want to help but i also think that that is one of the craziest stupidest things to do.... since both governments hate each other.... and wth is Iran going to do if the IDF decides to take a shot at them....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc8h83Ea1Xs




one thing i am surprised about.... no ones been shouting 2012!!!

[m!chael]

the Red Crescent Society is going to send 2 aid ships to Gaza and.... get this Iran is going to escort them with military ships!

I think its very honourable for them to want to help but i also think that that is one of the craziest stupidest things to do.... since both governments hate each other.... and wth is Iran going to do if the IDF decides to take a shot at them....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc8h83Ea1Xs




one thing i am surprised about.... no ones been shouting 2012!!!

Theres nothing honorable about supplying a terrorist organization with arms for years, but you only send aid when shit goes down and it benefits you to look like a hero.

Also, I'm pretty sure the death toll is 9, so you can change that in the first post. Also, if we all agree about the "peace" activists attacking the soldiers and the soldiers fighting in self defense, can we change the title of the thread to at least "kills." That title is misleading, and pretty annoying...

[cressydrift]

Israel is like a bee's nest. Everyone likes taking a swat to watch them get all pissed off.

[ericthehalfbee]

So I was reading in the paper today about Kevin Neish from Victoria who was on the Mavi Marmara and took a bunch of pictures. I thought he was very smart when he threw his camera away and kept only the memory card which he hid until his release.

Then he says more pictures are going to be released and I thought "now we'll see some un-edited pics of what happened".

Then I find out he handed his memory card over to the Turkish organization who was behind the blockade run.


Does anyone here actually believe the Turkish group is going to be open with these pictures and publish all of them, regardless of which side they may appear to support?

I wish he brought the card to Canada and published all the photos, un-edited.


To me this just shows that people on both sides of the conflict are f#$*&d up.

[Tegra_Devil]

Iran is baiting Israel to attack those ships....iran is full of themselves...so is israel....this isnt gonna end well for either country...but i would say worse for israel if anything....you can have all the weapons you like

but when your country is surround by arabs like this....it would even make american's think twice about starting shit

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2861/jewishoccupationofarablandno8.jpg

[belka]

Your mother's life serves no purpose to me. To me she is as good as a child molester or a racist. She could've become a doctor, a scientist, or a social activist and changed the world for the better. Instead she bore an ignorant child. It was her choice not to abort you (clearly the whore made the wrong choice) and for that I wish her a long horrible painful death as the result of some fatal illness.


/Belka logic

ha ha, you mad. Can't face the fact that the Jews have done more with their little strip of land in 50 years than the Arabs have in their entire existence. Oh wow, they found oil, thanks for coming out.

[van_driver]

ha ha, you mad. Can't face the fact that the Jews have done more with their little strip of land in 50 years than the Arabs have in their entire existence. Oh wow, they found oil, thanks for coming out.

good job, now i'm convinced you were really dropped on your head when you were a child. Oh and next time your using any of the following things, remember the oil in them is mostly coming from the property of those so-called silly arabs

-Credit cards
-Plastic bags
-Hair brushes
-Anti-freeze
-Motorcycle Helmets
-Carpets
-Telephones
-Brake fluid
-Boats
-Glue
-Toilet Seats
-Shampoo
-Household paint
-Detergent
-Bowls
-Fertiliser
-Car tyres
-Artificial turf
-Football boots
-Lipstick
-Weed killer
-Parachutes
-Umbrellas
-Food wrappers
-Shower curtains
-Waterproof coats
-Artifical limbs
-Roads
-Bubble wrap
-Drinks bottles
-Toothbrushes
-Life jackets
-Fishing line
-Tennis rackets
-Roller blades
-Eye glasses
-Lunch boxes
-Flower pots
-Toys
-Car seats
-Insulation
-Nail polish
-Hair spray
-Medicines
-Insect repellant
-Golf balls
-And the gas in your car

[Tegra_Devil]

ha ha, you mad. Can't face the fact that the Jews have done more with their little strip of land in 50 years than the Arabs have in their entire existence. Oh wow, they found oil, thanks for coming out.
http://www.jewornotjew.com/img/people/mort_goldman.jpg

[m!chael]

good job, now i'm convinced you were really dropped on your head when you were a child. Oh and next time your using any of the following things, remember the oil in them is mostly coming from the property of those so-called silly arabs

-Credit cards
-Plastic bags
-Hair brushes
-Anti-freeze
-Motorcycle Helmets
-Carpets
-Telephones
-Brake fluid
-Boats
-Glue
-Toilet Seats
-Shampoo
-Household paint
-Detergent
-Bowls
-Fertiliser
-Car tyres
-Artificial turf
-Football boots
-Lipstick
-Weed killer
-Parachutes
-Umbrellas
-Food wrappers
-Shower curtains
-Waterproof coats
-Artifical limbs
-Roads
-Bubble wrap
-Drinks bottles
-Toothbrushes
-Life jackets
-Fishing line
-Tennis rackets
-Roller blades
-Eye glasses
-Lunch boxes
-Flower pots
-Toys
-Car seats
-Insulation
-Nail polish
-Hair spray
-Medicines
-Insect repellant
-Golf balls
-And the gas in your car

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFgXF0a_Yw4&feature=related

[m!chael]

Iran is baiting Israel to attack those ships....iran is full of themselves...so is israel....this isnt gonna end well for either country...but i would say worse for israel if anything....you can have all the weapons you like

but when your country is surround by arabs like this....it would even make american's think twice about starting shit

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2861/jewishoccupationofarablandno8.jpg

You do understand that Iran has Afghanistan on one side and Iraq on the other (hint: There's U.S. forces in both), and not all arab countries support Iran. Actually a few of them would probably enjoy seeing Iran owned in a war, even if it is by Israel.

[belka]

good job, now i'm convinced you were really dropped on your head when you were a child. Oh and next time your using any of the following things, remember the oil in them is mostly coming from the property of those so-called silly arabs

Did they make all that crap? No. They got lucky and happened to be above all the oil in the world. Other than that, middle-east = stinky, terrorist breading desert.

[Tegra_Devil]

You do understand that Iran has Afghanistan on one side and Iraq on the other (hint: There's U.S. forces in both), and not all arab countries support Iran. Actually a few of them would probably enjoy seeing Iran owned in a war, even if it is by Israel.

i said country surrounded...not part of your military force surrounded...:thumbsup:

[El Bastardo]

ha ha, you mad. Can't face the fact that the Jews have done more with their little strip of land in 50 years than the Arabs have in their entire existence. Oh wow, they found oil, thanks for coming out.




Where did I talk about the Jews or the Arabs?

I called you an asshole because you're an asshole. It doesn't matter what heritage you have.

Asshole.

[m4k4v4li]

give yourself points for that please because according to anal nazi mod rs rules thats considered "deconstructive flaming"

[belka]

Where did I talk about the Jews or the Arabs?

I called you an asshole because you're an asshole. It doesn't matter what heritage you have.

Asshole.

Why, because I think that bitch should have been run over a second time to make sure she was dead? Yeah, I'm an asshole and she was a bitch. This asshole however doesn't go protesting and risking his life on issues that don't affect or concern my current life.

Kinda back on topic....

If Chechnya start shooting random rockets into Russia on a proportional scale to Israel there would be quick response with a new desert in place... civilians and all - and there wouldn't be a pip from UN. They'll be busy issuing new resolution for Israel inspecting ships with slogans "Death to Israel" coming from Iran... a lot more people recently want Israel and Jews in general to roll over and die. That's why people call it Antisemitism, not because it's some sort of objective criticism of Israel government. Israel is getting attacked by random rocket showers, suicide bombers and the world and Israel-hating UN tells Israel to shut up and take it - show restraint and do not resort to inhumane retaliation.

[m!chael]

i said country surrounded...not part of your military force surrounded...:thumbsup:

And I'm saying that it doesn't matter that Israel is surrounded by Arab countries, because a. Iran is surrounded by two countries with a shit load of American troops in them, while israel is surrounded by fairly useless armies (6-day war all over again lol?) and b. Not all of those arab countries even support Iran. :thumbsup:

On top of that, I doubt that any of the countries that would support Iran in a war would be any use in one. Conventional warfare is not the middle east's forte, they're more into human shields and suicide bombings.

[Tegra_Devil]

sounds very Israeli...rely on the States to back them up when they fuck up

that being said, you could say that about Canada relying on the states for defense....but we dont attack innocent aid workers on ships in international waters...so no one wants to kill us...

and when we take over a country for our own...we do it properly...not like the jewish settlers..

[Senna4ever]

Remember Reuters photoshopping pics from Gaza? Well, they're at it again it seems...

http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2010/06/reuters-brings-fauxtography-to-gaza.html

[m!chael]

sounds very Israeli...rely on the States to back them up when they fuck up

that being said, you could say that about Canada relying on the states for defense....but we dont attack innocent aid workers on ships in international waters...so no one wants to kill us...

and when we take over a country for our own...we do it properly...not like the jewish settlers..

Which of the wars that Israel fought they had the united states come and back them up? I merely pointed out that if you're gonna say Israel should be afraid because its surrounded by arab countries which are supposedly Iranian allies, Iran should be afraid because its surrounded by american troops which are Israeli allies.

Lol innocent, right.... I'm pretty sure we established that they were not innocent. Links to a terrorist organization and attacking soldiers, sounds like an innocent person to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/03/canada.terror/index.html
I guess we get the worst end of it, we don't even maintain a blockade in order to stop terrorism, yet we still have people trying to kill us.

When Israel takes over a country, the minorities in that country enjoy freedoms that they would have been other wise been denied in any other country in the middle east. The WestBank and Gaza are not a part of Israel per se, and it's pretty safe to say that almost all the settlements in the westbank will be dismantled after the final peace agreement, and the large ones will stay in return for a land swap somewhere else.

I'm glad you're proud of the manner by which European settlers took land from the Native American.

[m!chael]

An over view of those who were on the ship. Holy shit man, innocent activists my ass.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4265.htm

Shadha Barakat's husband Ayman said that his wife was likely to be harmed during the venture, adding that "she will make no truce with Zionism" and that "since she was a child, she has dreamed of attacking an Israeli." - This made me lol for some reason

[Meowjin]

giving freedoms to people in that region? By forcing them out of israel? Man you are delusional.

And lets be reasonable here. If your ship is being boarded by israel troops, and you happened to *gasp* defend yourself, after they killed your cologues, wouldnt you fight back too?

[StylinRed]

So I was reading in the paper today about Kevin Neish from Victoria who was on the Mavi Marmara and took a bunch of pictures. I thought he was very smart when he threw his camera away and kept only the memory card which he hid until his release.

Then he says more pictures are going to be released and I thought "now we'll see some un-edited pics of what happened".

Then I find out he handed his memory card over to the Turkish organization who was behind the blockade run.


Does anyone here actually believe the Turkish group is going to be open with these pictures and publish all of them, regardless of which side they may appear to support?

I wish he brought the card to Canada and published all the photos, un-edited.


To me this just shows that people on both sides of the conflict are f#$*&d up.

Actually those photos of the injured Israeli Soldiers in the ships were from Kevin Neish' memory card (the ones m!chael linked to a page or so ago)



Iran is baiting Israel to attack those ships....iran is full of themselves...so is israel....this isnt gonna end well for either country...but i would say worse for israel if anything....you can have all the weapons you like

but when your country is surround by arabs like this....it would even make american's think twice about starting shit

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2861/jewishoccupationofarablandno8.jpg


You need to know the difference between Arabs and Persians and Etc..

and you need to realize a lot of Jews are Arabs too (they just identify with their faith as being of a different people)

why would it make americans think twice? how do you think Israel won the wars in the past? USA; how do you think Israels economy stays afloat? (aside from diamonds) USDs $$$




Ban Ki-Moon demands Israel reconsider rejected probe

The UN Secretary General has insisted other nations should oversee an investigation into Israel's deadly boarding of a Turkish ship.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10269169.stm

Israel already told the UN to fuck off (again) over an international investigation into the incident (makes sense international waters and israel were the pirates)

Ban Ki Moon is insisting again but israel is probably gonna give them the finger agian; this is another reason why most of the world dislikes israel... they're always sticking their asses @ the world and when it comes to the point that israel gets sanctions the USA steps in to veto it.



ISRAEL Kills 6 Gazans in a Fishing Boat on the Coast of Gaza (4 bodies 2 missing)

the BBC video speaks of how Israels Navy often fires on fishing boats

Israel says they were terrorists headed to Israel to conduct some sort of action

a Witness says it was Fatah members conducting swimming exercises

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10256704.stm


Clashes between Israeli police and Palestinian protestors over the issue of holy sites have provoked a wave of condemnation...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8543120.stm

Israel is proclaiminig religious sites in palestine as Israeli Heritage Sites and proceeded to deny groups of people from going there creating riots and clashes with israeli forces

They're always giving little jabs and nudges knowing it'll lead to increased tensions and clashes

[m!chael]

giving freedoms to people in that region? By forcing them out of israel? Man you are delusional.

And lets be reasonable here. If your ship is being boarded by israel troops, and you happened to *gasp* defend yourself, after they killed your cologues, wouldnt you fight back too?

20% of Israel's population is Arabs. They carry Israeli citizenship, they enjoy every aspect of life Israeli's do, and while there is friction between them and the jewish citizens, their lives are still better off than any other place in the middle east. Also, don't forget about gays, lesbians, Bedouin arabs, christian arabs, the druze, The Circassians. All groups that would have been harshly discriminated against in any other middle eastern country. And in case that these groups are discriminated against, we have courts that hear their grievances. We have mechanisms in place to right any wrongs, and to better our country. No one is forcing these minorities out of Israel.

The only delusional one here is you, because you think your opinion carries any weight to it. Your points sounds like something I would hear through a megaphone at a pro Palestinian rally, pure propaganda. It's rather pathetic majin.

[belka]

and when we take over a country for our own...we do it properly...not like the jewish settlers..

There is a proper way to take over a country? We don't have any issues with the natives here in Canada now do we. :rolleyes:

In a conventional war today, Israel would pretty much roll over any of the surrounding countries. Syria and Lebanon would be gone in less than a week with Iran bombed to hell within a month if they tried anything stupid.

[Tegra_Devil]

There is a proper way to take over a country? We don't have any issues with the natives here in Canada now do we. :rolleyes:

In a conventional war today, Israel would pretty much roll over any of the surrounding countries. Syria and Lebanon would be gone in less than a week with Iran bombed to hell within a month if they tried anything stupid.

well we dont have suicide bombers or rocket attacks, nor do we need to make fake blockades, drop airstrikes on innocent people, and send tanks into cities to blow the shit out of them....so im pretty sure both sides in canada are very civilized unlike Israeli's and Palestinians

[bengy]

There is a proper way to take over a country? We don't have any issues with the natives here in Canada now do we. :rolleyes:

In a conventional war today, Israel would pretty much roll over any of the surrounding countries. Syria and Lebanon would be gone in less than a week with Iran bombed to hell within a month if they tried anything stupid.

Europe will sick the Germans on them. At least they know how to get the job done right. :thumbsup:

[Tegra_Devil]

Europe will sick the Germans on them. At least they know how to get the job done right. :thumbsup:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/Tegra_devil/1274747757554.gif

[belka]

Europe will sick the Germans on them. At least they know how to get the job done right. :thumbsup:

Germany will be brought back into the stone age if they try anything this time. :thumbsup:

[bengy]

Germany will be brought back into the stone age if they try anything this time. :thumbsup:

LOL I guess in your opinion, if the whole world decided to wipe Israel off the map, the whole world would be brought into the stone age :haha:

[jonceballos]

http://elespiritudelchemin.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/palestina-israel.jpg

now if we can just smudge out that last little bit of Green then things will be back to normal

[Lomac]

Listen. In regards to the first sentence, obviously Greece isn't responsible for the whole mess, but I merely said that to show how silly he is being. "Fuck zionists," are you kidding me? Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it's not black and white like that, and I could do the same back to him. Except when I do it your dad's mom rolls in her grave. Give me a break. It's unfortunate that you think so, and it's unfortunate that they have passed away, but I could care less about it. It's kind of annoying how you throw fact that you have jewish and nazi heritage at me as if it gives you some sort of a special status.

:lol

I wasn't trying to dictate that I had some sort of "special status" because of my family heritage. It was merely intended to state an implication that even though two different groups were at war with one another, it doesn't mean that they have to continue hating each other after the war ends. If two families from completely different upbringings and views on things can come together to make one, why is it so hard for others? Well, actually I can understand why: As many people state, religion fucks people up and skews their perspective on everything else that they believe is incorrect. Not everyone, but enough that it just screws the rest of the world over.

As for the Six Day war, too bad it was Israel that started it. They claimed that Egypt attacked first, but later withdrew that statement and said it was a preemptive attack because they believed Egypt was preparing to attack, even though Israel had no proof that this was correct. As a result, it broke the armistice agreement Israel and Egypt had and essentially gave Egypt the opening they needed to exact revenge, albeit it took a few years for them to try and make it happen.

The smallest actions often start wars: WW1 was started by the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, WW2 was started because of unfair treaties and reparations required by Germany and the defunct Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empires, the Cold War because the USA and USSR couldn't agree on how to configure Europe after WW2, a random shooting at Timika Airport started the Papua Conflict, etc., etc.

Yes, the IDF had the superior force (primarily because they had a technological advantage, not manpower), which allowed them an easy victory. However, that doesn't necessarily mean this is still the case today. You also have to remember that a large portion of the hate for Israel, especially in the view of the Palestines, is that they literally were kicked out of Israel and were refused the ability to go back to their own homes and land that they owned (Absentee Property Laws). As well, Jerusalem was intended to be a UN-run nation, separate from both the Israel and Palestine states. The fact that Israel essentially annexed Eastern Jerusalem has split the countries in the UN over the legality of their "ownership" of that city, though virtually all of the UN members believe that Jerusalem should still be UN-run. This fact is made even stronger by the fact that the UN itself doesn't recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Hell, even Israel-loving USA doesn't recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Israel has made it extremely hard on themselves to find any form of world sympathy with many things that they've done. I'm in no means saying that Israel needs to cease to exist; rather, I just think that they need to take a step back and look at everything they've done and to try and make amends before they continue on the path they've chosen. As it stands, it will be their downfall, either politically in the UN or by more explosive measures.

[Lomac]

ha ha, you mad. Can't face the fact that the Jews have done more with their little strip of land in 50 years than the Arabs have in their entire existence. Oh wow, they found oil, thanks for coming out.

Do you really want to get into this type of argument? I don't think you realize just how much the Arabs have contributed to modern civilization...

[StylinRed]

bummmps ;) Smuggled footage

Im busy watching the England game atm but its supposed to be showing how Israel Fired on the FLoatilla before they even landed commandos on it


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78tj0EtPyvg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bunc-ZAhiYI

Those who were killed were shot in the head around 5X

48 people were shot

6 people missing

9 dead

hmm...

[belka]

That boat should be at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

[bengy]

That boat should be at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

Jews should be at the bottom of the Mediteranean.

[LiquidTurbo]

Jews should be at the bottom of the Mediteranean.

That boat should be at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

:facepalm:

[StylinRed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm3ukOBwuXc

oO don't know if its real but i wouldn't be surprised...

a good way to stifle protesters / would be protesters


paint ball guns???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q77muO-jar0

[choda]

:facepalm:

No no my friend, I think this is more appropriate!

http://bluejaunte.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/double_facepalm.jpg

[Meowjin]

why did the mod ban him. He was just turning belka's hate speech around on him to show how stupid he looks.

[belka]

why did the mod ban him. He was just turning belka's hate speech around on him to show how stupid he looks.

Yes, I'm the stupid one. :rolleyes:

Lets see more "aid flotillas" headed for Gaza so more protesters die or get arrested. :rolleyes: How about Turkey or Iran escort the ships through the blockade, which is a declaration of war against Israel. Perhaps Turkey should focus on internal matters instead of pleading for an ass kicking by Israel.

[LiquidTurbo]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2652/3722731209_fa5a1367e1_b.jpg

Destroyed town of east Jebaliya, northern Gaza Strip, Monday, Feb. 16, 2009. (Photo By Mark Pearson) In the course of the 22 days of the operation, the population of Gaza endured intensive uninterrupted aerial bombardments, artillery shelling and ground operations resulting in the killing of 1,440 people and the injury of another 5,380, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health (MoH) in Gaza.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3443/3725706619_72f7772371_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2675/3722731723_a37cd20276_b.jpg


Really, this madness imposed onto the Gaza strip needs to stop. Where in Israel does it look like this? And a bit offtopic, why did Israel use White Phosphorous despite it being against the rules in the Geneva convention?

[trip]

SEA BATTLE FEAR AS IRAN SENDS FLOTILLA TO GAZA



http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/180605/Sea-battle-fear-as-Iran-sends-flotilla-to-Gaza

[belka]

Where in Israel does it look like this?

So you are blaming Israel for having more advanced weaponry? If Hamas didn't launch rockets into Israel in the first place those pictures would have never been taken.

So the Palestinians elect a terrorist organization into power. What did they expect, friendly table negotiations and chit chat? Israeli bombs > Hamas bombs, they KNOW this, yet they continue to piss off Israel. Is this what the Palestinians want decade after decade? War and bombs?

The Palestinians will get NOTHING if they continue with violence and terrorism. If they are too stupid to realize this then so be it, let them live in squalor and peasantry generation after generation.

[Graeme S]

So you are blaming Israel for having more advanced weaponry? If Hamas didn't launch rockets into Israel in the first place those pictures would have never been taken.

So the Palestinians elect a terrorist organization into power. What did they expect, friendly table negotiations and chit chat? Israeli bombs > Hamas bombs, they KNOW this, yet they continue to piss off Israel. Is this what the Palestinians want decade after decade? War and bombs?

The Palestinians will get NOTHING if they continue with violence and terrorism. If they are too stupid to realize this then so be it, let them live in squalor and peasantry generation after generation.
But in saying things like this, you're basically saying "If you know you're going to lose, lie down and take it like a bitch." I'm not in any way shape or form condoning any kind of attacks by any group of people, but the entire purpose of any kind of action--violent or otherwise--is to make people realize that there are problems. If the people of Palestine have ELECTED a terrorist government, then it sounds to me like they have gotten so desperate that they feel nothing else will help.

You keep saying "If they lose the guns we'll help them.", but the other side is "If you help them, they won't need the guns." It's a chicken/egg problem. Neither side will give in until the other does.


And the problem? Neither will.

[StylinRed]

the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has said Israel's blockade of Gaza is a clear violation of international humanitarian law.

In a statement, the ICRC describes the situation in Gaza as dire, saying the only sustainable solution was a lifting of the blockade.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10305902.stm

[Ferra]

Yes, I'm the stupid one. :rolleyes:

Lets see more "aid flotillas" headed for Gaza so more protesters die or get arrested. :rolleyes: How about Turkey or Iran escort the ships through the blockade, which is a declaration of war against Israel. Perhaps Turkey should focus on internal matters instead of pleading for an ass kicking by Israel.
Yes, you ARE the stupid one.
First, for being an ignorant fucks, believing in your own race superiority over the entire world. (Yes, I agree israel had made huge progress in the past few decades and I happy for them, but trust me, they were only able to do so because US was behind their back, politically, technologically, militarily and financially)
Second, you have complete disregard for other innocent civilians well-being except for your own kind. (a typical character for people who commit genocide)
And finally, you are fucking stupid for creating so much hates and angers toward your own race which you cherish so much.

I don't know where did you get brainwashed with so bullshit in your head, but you need to stop believing your country is a mega power in the world. FYI, a tiny place like Hong Kong produce more GDP than the entire israel.

[belka]

Yes, you ARE the stupid one.
First, for being an ignorant fucks, believing in your own race superiority over the entire world. (Yes, I agree israel had made huge progress in the past few decades and I happy for them, but trust me, they were only able to do so because US was behind their back, politically, technologically, militarily and financially)
Second, you have complete disregard for other innocent civilians well-being except for your own kind. (a typical character for people who commit genocide)
And finally, you are fucking stupid for creating so much hates and angers toward your own race which you cherish so much.

I don't know where did you get brainwashed with so bullshit in your head, but you need to stop believing your country is a mega power in the world. FYI, a tiny place like Hong Kong produce more GDP than the entire israel.

My race, my country? :haha:

I am not Israeli nor am I Jewish, I don't care for religion, Islam, Judaism and whatever other non sense people believe in these days.

btw, little known fact:

There are 12 Million Jews in the entire world and they have received 185 Nobel Prizes. The Muslims number 1.4 Billion or 117 times the number of Jews. Based upon this 117:1 Muslim-to-Jewish ratio, one might expect the Muslims to have 24,920 Nobel Laureates. They have NINE, and one of them [Arafat] is a murderer.

believing in your own race superiority over the entire world.

Not the entire world, just its surrounding neighbors.

[Ducdesmo]

Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7148555.ece

WW3 is coming.

[StylinRed]

^^^ that would be the dumbest thing Saudi Arabia ever did... considering Iran would just flatten their Oil industry


Stephen Harper compares Vancouver MP Libby Davies to terrorist groups
By Mike De Souza, Canwest News Service June 16, 2010

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper stepped up the pressure on the NDP's Libby Davies to resign her position as her party's deputy leader on Wednesday, accusing her of making "extremist" statements about Israel that were similar to the language used by terrorist organizations.

"The deputy leader of the NDP knew full well what she was saying," Harper said during the daily question period in the House of Commons. "She made statements that could have been made by Hamas, Hezbollah or anybody else with no repercussions from that party whatsoever."

...

Davies initiated the controversy earlier this month at an anti-Israeli government protest in Vancouver during an interview with an Internet blogger, David Katz, who went outside with an Internet web camera after hearing the crowd going through his neighbourhood. In the interview, she told Katz that she believed Israel had been occupying Palestinian territories since 1948, the year of Jewish independence, and also that she supported a campaign to boycott and sanction the ...state.

While Harper and other critics have suggested Davies was questioning Israel's right to exist, Layton said that the prime minister is manipulating the facts about the controversy.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Stephen+Harper+compares+Vancouver+Libby+Davies+ter rorist+groups/3162987/story.html#ixzz0r6n4yJF0



Wow... Harper just keeps showing how he's not only a dog of the USA but that he's willing to stifle Canadians freedoms, to the extreme, in support of defending Israel

He's despicable

[Ducdesmo]

What you have to realize is that there are larger world powers that governs him. He is only a puppet. Look up Bilderberg group.

A bit off topic, why the hell does the G20/G8 summit cost $1.3billion for a 2 day event? Almost a billion is spent on security alone while past summits in London, Scottland, Pittsburg range from $18-100 million. Complete lavish spending of tax payers money. There seems to be more to this story. I am surprised not many people are talking about it.

[Graeme S]

What you have to realize is that there are larger world powers that governs him. He is only a puppet. Look up Bilderberg group.

A bit off topic, why the hell does the G20/G8 summit cost $1.3billion for a 2 day event? Almost a billion is spent on security alone while past summits in London, Scottland, Pittsburg range from $18-100 million. Complete lavish spending of tax payers money. There seems to be more to this story. I am surprised not many people are talking about it.
People are too busy still bitching about the Olympics.

[Tegra_Devil]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a216/Tegra_devil/1276810716618.jpg

[belka]

W
A bit off topic, why the hell does the G20/G8 summit cost $1.3billion for a 2 day event?

Jet fuel is expensive for the air patrols.

[StylinRed]

UN chief says East Jerusalem demolition plan 'illegal'


Palestinian boys play with a donkey in Silwan, East Jerusalem, 22 June The demolition plans are strongly opposed by the Palestinians

UN chief Ban Ki-moon has said the plan to demolish Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem to make way for a tourist park is illegal and unhelpful.

On Monday Jerusalem City Council approved the plan to demolish 22 Palestinian homes in Silwan - "part of a major redevelopment of the area."

The move has drawn criticism both at home and from the Obama administration.

Mr Ban said the plan was "contrary to international law" and "unhelpful" to efforts to restart peace negotiations.

The scheme is still in an initial stage.

"The Secretary-General is deeply concerned about the decision by the Jerusalem municipality to advance planning for house demolitions and further settlement activity in the area of Silwan," Mr Ban's office said in a statement.

Israel's government had a "responsibility to ensure provocative steps [were] not taken" that would heighten tensions in the city, he said.

On Tuesday, the US State Department criticised the move, saying it undermined trust and increased the risk of violence.

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak also criticised Jerusalem's municipality for "bad timing" and poor "common sense".

Under the plan, 22 Palestinian homes would be demolished to make room for an Israeli archaeological park. Another 66 buildings constructed without Israeli permission would be legalised.

Israel has come under international pressure over its settlement plans in East Jerusalem, including the construction of 1,600 housing units.

Under international law the area is occupied territory.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10400282.stm

[StylinRed]

So the United Nations Human Rights Council has come out with their findings and found Israels acts are deserving of prosecutions (now the UNHRC report is separate from the committee that Ban Ki Moon had set up)

In a 56-page report, the UN panel of three international lawyers said: "There is clear evidence to support prosecutions of the following crimes within the terms of article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention: wilful killing; torture or inhuman treatment; wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health".


Here's the full 56 page report for those interested

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/A.HRC.15.21_en.pdf


Israeli raid on Gaza aid flotilla broke law - UN probe

Israel's military broke international laws during a raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla, a UN Human Rights Council investigation says.

Its report said the action by commandos, which left nine dead, was "disproportionate" and "betrayed an unacceptable level of brutality".

It said there was clear evidence to support prosecutions against Israel for "wilful killing".

Israel rejected the report as "biased" and "one-sided."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11393836


UN's Gaza flotilla probe finds Israeli soldiers committed 'willful killing'

Israel rejected the UN Gaza flotilla probe's findings as 'biased.' In Turkey, most politicians welcomed the news and praised the panel's objectivity.

...

In a 56-page report (pdf), the UNHCR's three-member panel wrote that Israeli commandos had committed war crimes during their May 31 raid of the aid ship the MV Mavi Marmara that left nine pro-Palestinian activists dead. Although Israel contends that its soldiers acted in self-defense, the council found that their response was “disproportionate” and that soldiers exercised an “unacceptable level of brutality.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/0923/UN-s-Gaza-flotilla-probe-finds-Israeli-soldiers-committed-willful-killing


Somewhat Off-Topic but Also buried in the headlines Bill Clinton has said the new generation of IDF soldiers are a hindrance to peace as the new generation consists of many settlers and russian imigrants who are anti-peace

http://www.news1130.com/news/world/article/105725--bill-clinton-s-comments-that-russian-immigrants-are-obstacle-to-peace-draw-israeli-ire

[Meowjin]

lol michael

[StylinRed]

yea yea digging up a tonne of shit ;) but ppl should know its not all over the news like it should be