[PiuYi]

I haven't seen anything posted here on VOT but first nations people have been really getting on my nerves recently with all their wants and needs. First it was the Stanley Park name change, then it was the Salish Sea, then it was wanting more casino revenue, then HST exemption, and now they have their own fucking passports...




I'll post all the stories here:

Stanley Park: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/natives-propose-new-name-for-vancouvers-stanley-park/article1626970/

Stanley Park is known internationally as one of the world’s top urban parks. An evergreen oasis of 400 hectares on the edge of downtown Vancouver, it draws more than eight million visitors annually to its beaches, forests and seawall.

But would it be just as popular if it was known as Xwayxway?

On the eve of Canada Day, a 95-year-old elder from the Squamish First Nation suggested a shift to the historic aboriginal name for the land.


Salish Sea: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/07/15/bc-salish-sea.html

A large area of coastal waters off the south coast of British Columbia were officially named the Salish Sea by both First Nations and government leaders at a ceremony in Victoria on Thursday.
The new name doesn't replace any of the existing official names for Puget Sound, the Juan de Fuca Strait or the Strait of Georgia near Vancouver.

Instead the original names will be retained, but the name Salish Sea will be used to indicate the entire area. The name refers to the language of the First Nations groups that originally occupied the area.


Wanting More Casino Money: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/06/28/bc-first-nations-gaming-commission.html

A First Nations group in B.C. says the provincial government is unfairly shutting aboriginals out of gaming action and now it wants to force the government to show them the money.

The First Nations Summit has created its own gaming commission in an attempt to devise a way to pry away some of the billions of dollars the provincial government takes in every year.

Every other province with legalized gambling has some kind of profit-sharing agreement with its First Nations, Chief Joe Hall, chairman of the B.C. First Nations Gaming Commission, said Monday.


Exempt from HST: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/06/20/bc-first-nations-hst-exemption.html

The Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs says its members want the same harmonized sales tax exemption that First Nations in Ontario will receive.

On Thursday, the federal government agreed to Ontario's request to give First Nations a point-of-sale exemption on the provincial portion of the HST.

Grand Chief Stewart Philip, the president of the union of B.C. chiefs, said First Nations in his province want the same exemption.


Passports: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/07/16/iroquois-passport016.html

A team of Iroquois lacrosse players blocked from travelling to a tournament in England because they refuse to use American or Canadian passports has bowed out of the competition.

Jemison says the squad is still trying to gain recognition for the passports so it can attend future international games.




I don't understand why a minority population can have so many special exemptions and shit, isn't this racism? they get special perks and benefits because of their race! Yes, they were slighted when the Europeans came and during the earlier half of the 20th century, but thats history, and most of the people reaping the benefits now weren't even born when their ancestors were mistreated. anyways, what do you guys think? i'm expecting many fails but had to rant about this

/rant

[SkinnyPupp]

"that's history"?

This is history. It's not like things like invasion and genocide have an expiry date.

[El Bastardo]

This thread is destined for Fight Club. Toot toot! See you all there!


(Honestly though, I don't think we're going to be able to have a real discussion on natives. I've seen us discuss it before and its always been a dismal failure)

[jbsali]

i think the exemptions are bullshit. we should all be treated equally.

[kokanee_vtec]

First nations people shuld start a forum called Rezscene

[achiam]

I don't understand why a minority population can have so many special exemptions and shit, isn't this racism? they get special perks and benefits because of their race! Yes, they were slighted when the Europeans came and during the earlier half of the 20th century, but thats history, and most of the people reaping the benefits now weren't even born when their ancestors were mistreated. anyways, what do you guys think? i'm expecting many fails but had to rant about this

/rant

I'm all fuckin' for this. Sure they got shafted and all, no disputin' that. But where does it end? Are they still gonna get free tuition and shit 1000 years from now?
Sorry buddy but if you wanna sell us Vancouver Island for a 6-pack of beer and some beads, a deal's a deal, just don't come back crying.

[MG1]

What ever happened to NativeRus?

I kind of had some faith in the guy. You know, give his side of the story, educate us about his culture, etc. He just plain gave up, I guess. I hate to say it, but typical.......... he didn't do much to help improve the image of his peoples - at least not here.

Between the Quebecois and the Iroquois, there's too much whining - "me, me, me" and not enough "we".

As for the elder who wanted Stanley Park named "whatever", he needs to wake up.
Renaming places and getting non-natives upset is not helping matters. You want stuff? Work smarter. Raise your children to use the white man's technology and use it to better yourselves. Promote your culture in a positive way. Pride comes from hard work - not sititng on your asses waiting for more handouts.

Look at the Asians who came to this land. They toiled and worked damn hard. Their children, grandchildren great grandchildren enjoy what they have now because of the groundwork laid generations ago.

Stop wallowing in the past. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. Do something about it. Look at Post war Japan. At the end of the war, they were thoroughly beaten and ashamed. As a nation, they rebuilt themselves, rose from defeat, and have used the white man's technology to better themselves - in some cases, beat them at their own game.

Follow great leaders like Chief Dan George, who believed that fighting the white man and his ways was not the way for his people. He believed that learning the white man's way and rising above it all was the only solution for his people.

You can keep your culture while embracing technology.

[CP.AR]

it's amazing how they wanted to be treated equally, yet demand differences to be made in the social structure to differentiate them (natives) and other people.

fucking amazing how the human psychology works huh?

[kokanee_vtec]

I don't know what the fuck they changed the name to but It will always be Stanley Park to me.

[shawn79]

why are the government even listening to them?

[satek]

They are only good at waiting for welfare checks.

[G-spec]

I always found it hilarious that some of their names are whiter than your typical white guy's names

Stewart Philip & Dan George

[MG1]

I always found it hilarious that some of their names are whiter than your typical white guy's names

Stewart Philip & Dan George

Like Lee, Long, and Shin..........oh wait, solly, wong example.

[Redlines_Daily]

I met the Chief of the Kelowna first nations band..actually Im not sure what band it was but everyone referred to him as "the big chief". Anyways, he is super rich from government hand outs, gaming...I saw a portion of his garage and he had a Maybach, Ford GT and Shelby GT500 convertible..and thats just what I saw..heard he has over 15 cars. No real point to my post I guess, that just made me kinda angry to know that our tax dollars are going into his private garage.

[nack]

maybe we could use that money to keep the natives away from commercial drive, I hate it when they act so "hard" and stare at random people

[shawn79]

^ makes me dont want to go blenz or a&w

[vafanculo]

Not only what everyone has mentioned here, I also hate how if you step on "their" land it's like a
blood stepping onto crips territory. They just won't have it.

I've heard lots of stories about people getting beat up, chased, and rocks thrown at them for being on native land. Like we don't threaten them when they are on public land... Why do they get private land?

And don't let them fool you. The elders and top members of the totem pole so to say, are all filthy rich bastards. Even every
young native gets a good sized handout when they reach a specific age.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[SkinnyPupp]

Yes, I'm sure you've heard "lots of stories". And that totally means they are all completely true.

[CBP_EG6]

Feelin' Reserved Video by War Party - MySpace Video@@AMEPARAM@@http://mediaservices.myspace.com/Services/Media/Embed.aspx/m=7494602@@AMEPARAM@@mediaservices@@AMEPARAM@@mysp ace@@AMEPARAM@@Services/Media/Embed@@AMEPARAM@@aspx/m@@AMEPARAM@@7494602

[kokanee_vtec]

^ lol ..Rezlife

[mqr03]

I'm not siding with either or but you do realize your European ancestors did steal 'their' land and practically raped and pillaged whole tribes hundreds of years ago.
Its not like the government doesn't waste our money on other frivolous expenditures.

[MG1]

I met the Chief of the Kelowna first nations band..actually Im not sure what band it was but everyone referred to him as "the big chief". Anyways, he is super rich from government hand outs, gaming...I saw a portion of his garage and he had a Maybach, Ford GT and Shelby GT500 convertible..and thats just what I saw..heard he has over 15 cars. No real point to my post I guess, that just made me kinda angry to know that are tax dollars are going into his private garage.

All that while the majority of the tribe members live in shitty conditions.

Those chiefs will tell you how hard they work and that it's no different than CEO's of corporations and other high ranking, government officials. It is ironic that they are fighting for more money for their tribes, yet they are the ones who are getting richer and richer.

A majority of natives want self government. I hope they get it. A one time deal that would end future handouts. Give them what they want, within reason, and let them sink or swim. A treaty to end all treaties. Like Quebec, when reality sinks in, they'll back off. They really have it made. You should see how much educational funding they get. Most of us would love to get that kind of money, but at what cost? I'd rather keep my pride and make it on my own.

A lot of experts say the natives lack pride and that they need to get back their culture/heritage. Learn about their history, native tongue, arts, etc. I think they've got it half right. What they need is a strong leader. A modern leader/visionary that will lead them into the 21st century, while celebrating their history and culture. It can be done. They need examples of successful natives. A group of lawyers, teachers, and corporate leaders. Although they claim to be the first inhabitants of this great country, they are the most backwards of any race.

If they are the original peoples of North America, then I guess our tax dollars are like rent. We'll just keep paying the fucking rent. Will they eventually assimilate or disappear over time?

Right now, it isn't so bad. Can you imagine if they got wise and actually made good use of all that funding? I say let sleeping dogs lie. Our fathers had it right. Keep them drunk and happy, "cause when the natives get restless, there's gonna be trouble.


As a side note, I heard that the Queen of England addressed the native issue. She really has to STFU. Does she have no idea how much the rest of Canada toiled to make this country what it is today? We did this dispite the natives' whining and bitching.

Anyway.................

[SkinnyPupp]

I'm not siding with either or but you do realize your European ancestors did steal 'their' land and practically raped and pillaged whole tribes hundreds of years ago.
Its not like the government doesn't waste our money on other frivolous expenditures.
And also, people are basing this off what some extremist whackjobs say to get themselves mentioned in the news.

It's only really the corrupt fuckers who are trying to leech the system as much as they can, the ones who want a 'self government' so they can really screw over the rest of their people.

[EmperorIS]

we should just put the french, the natives, and religious fanatics in to a steel cage and let them have a battle royale

[vafanculo]

Yes, I'm sure you've heard "lots of stories". And that totally means they are all completely true.

Yes, I know, they are just stories, but they are not too farfetched. How about you take a litte stroll through a Reserve by yourself and hangout along the rivers with a fishing pole, and report back what happens.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[MG1]

I'm not siding with either or but you do realize your European ancestors did steal 'their' land and practically raped and pillaged whole tribes hundreds of years ago.
Its not like the government doesn't waste our money on other frivolous expenditures.

That's the way the world was back then. They tried to do that to China, India, Japan, etc. Countries invaded other countries all the time. In feudal times, they fought each other just for kicks.

[SkinnyPupp]

Yes, I know, they are just stories, but they are not too farfetched. How about you take a litte stroll through a Reserve by yourself and hangout along the rivers with a fishing pole, and report back what happens.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)
I used to all the time, I somehow came away unscathed. Imagine that!

My high school was right by the reserve, so probably 1/3 or 1/4 of the students were native. They were no different from the rest of the kids.

[EmperorIS]

Yes, I know, they are just stories, but they are not too farfetched. How about you take a litte stroll through a Reserve by yourself and hangout along the rivers with a fishing pole, and report back what happens.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

hahaha i drove in to a indian reserve without knowing once .. and i got stared down by every native

[MG1]

Yes, I know, they are just stories, but they are not too farfetched. How about you take a litte stroll through a Reserve by yourself and hangout along the rivers with a fishing pole, and report back what happens.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

I go to Musqeuam reserve at least once or twice a year. They love me there. "Oh, back again.......nice to see you again. How many sockeye do you want this time?" Actually, it could be because of the way I look. I can pass for a Hawaiian, a native, Chinese, Japanese, Inuit, Vietnamese. Everything except Caucasian or South Asian. Comes in handy. I attribute it all to my experiences growing up in the DTES. I can hang with with all kinds of people. I can put on a native accent and be all laid back, LOL.

Lesson number one. Don't stick out like a sore thumb. Be cool and stop behaving like a tourist. Some people are like dogs. They can sense fear a mile away. Have confidence without being cocky. Fishing pole on a fucking reserve? Holy shit, that's dumb.

[twitchyzero]

XwayXway haha

0:34-0:40 lol
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=0cHRZuza-TI

[threezero]

good example from other minority that were also marginalize in the course of history. Hangout is not doing them any good. There is a reason why natives are overrepresent in prison and despite their handout have the lowest level of education compare to others.

whats the deal with their passport? how are they able to have one where they have no land (the reserves are still under jurisdiction of canadian government) no official governement and no recognization from other nations?

[Qmx323]

hmmm, i knew this kid in HS that was 1/16th native.

fucker got into ubc with shit for marks, didnt do shit in school

fucking pissed me off

[SkinnyPupp]

hmmm, i knew this kid in HS that was 1/16th native.

fucker got into ubc with shit for marks, didnt do shit in school

fucking pissed me off
http://www.ayo4theo.com/stuff/pics/haters-gonna-hate.gif

[Qmx323]

http://www.ayo4theo.com/stuff/pics/haters-gonna-hate.gif

Damn straight I'm hatin'

[bengy]

They should be grateful the Europeans didn't wipe them out completely, and use that opportunity to do something with their life.

[Ronin]

Oh god, not more native demands. Seriously, why are they still whining?

No one should have to apologize for winning. I don't get why white people even feel guilty about it.

I'm Chinese and Chinese people had to work on railroads or some shit here in Canada in basically slave conditions. You don't see me crying about head taxes and whatever my people had to do a hundred years ago.

[The_AK]

hahaha i drove in to a indian reserve without knowing once .. and i got stared down by every native

lol i had that happen to me too (Musqueam Reserve: http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=49.230066,-123.196408&spn=0.00166,0.004866&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=49.229888,-123.196174&panoid=QfNE_Pw0pu3d7aXxbiMpBA&cbp=12,204.94,,0,8.97 ), did it for the experience and was unsure of what was going to happen, the reserves have a mix of houses; some are quite the shitholes, some are actually decent looking house. Personally, I'd do back flips if my neighboor threw all his shit out in his front yard and had a capsized boat on it while my place was neat. Natives aren't mad at white people, they're mad at each other and the shit they have to put up with. Its like when Chris Rock was talking about "black people" and "niggas".

[XxFcukxX]

USER RECEIVED 24 POINTS FOR THIS POST
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[BaoXu]

Oh god, not more native demands. Seriously, why are they still whining?

No one should have to apologize for winning. I don't get why white people even feel guilty about it.

I'm Chinese and Chinese people had to work on railroads or some shit here in Canada in basically slave conditions. You don't see me crying about head taxes and whatever my people had to do a hundred years ago.

there are chinese people that still protest about the head taxes. doesn't mean all people do it.

in the same token, just because the news says natives protest about their conditions doesn't mean ALL natives do it.

[wouwou]

Yes, I know, they are just stories, but they are not too farfetched. How about you take a litte stroll through a Reserve by yourself and hangout along the rivers with a fishing pole, and report back what happens.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

or we can listen to news1130..

[dark0821]

hmmm, i knew this kid in HS that was 1/16th native.

fucker got into ubc with shit for marks, didnt do shit in school

fucking pissed me off

man i am with you on this shit, the school admission marks is like.. WTF =.= , so just cuz you are native, it means you are "not as smart" and will need lower standards to get the same degree? i was like WTF =.=

[taylor192]

It's not like things like invasion and genocide have an expiry date.
Yes they do. History is filled with atrocities, yet we don't bend over backwards for everyone's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-...-grandparents that were wronged.

First nations have had more than enough chances to either live their simple life like the Amish successfully do, or to integrate into our modern society. They don't want either, they want handouts. Screw'em.

[BaoXu]

^ how about the white bums on the street addicted to crack and cocaine? they want handouts too. yet the government helps them.

[MG1]

They don't want either, they want handouts. Screw'em.

Interesting statement there..........

This is why NativeRus needs to be here. To hear his side of the story, because none of us are experts on the subject.

We have reserves. Nobody is forced to live there, correct? If you leave, you lose some or all of the money you get from the leader(s), plus no house, benefits, etc. Now, this money comes from the government. I'm not sure how much they get.

Is this not a form of control?

There are plenty of First Nations people out there who are not living on reserves. They have mingled with the rest of society. Many of them are no longer "full breeds" <--- not a great term, but I'll use it.

A lot of First Nations people with mixed blood, don't advertise the fact they have a First Nations background. Even if it means losing some form of funding. If I were First Nations, I'd be a little pissed off and confused, too. The way people talk about your kind on forums like this and so on. I try to put myself in other people's shoes - see how/why they are the way they are.

I hope this thread doesn't get to fight club. I hope we get some insight into their (First Nations people) lives, mindset, struggles, challenges, etc. I guess we'll never know because as soon as someone does pipe in, they'll get bombarded with negative comments.

[FerrariEnzo]

wow.. dont they get enough benefits from the governments already?

[Shead]

it be awesome if we can keep them on their reserves and fence them off and not give them money nor white mans technology and watch them live in the past which they so desire..... that would be soo swell...

[MG1]

^ how about the white bums on the street addicted to crack and cocaine? they want handouts too. yet the government helps them.

Yes, and that's what our government must do. We cannot let people die on the streets. No matter what the situation.

If you look closely (DTES), it's not just white people or Indigenous peoples anymore. There are Asians, South Asians, you name it. Drug addiction has no boundaries........

People talk shit on RS. Let's incinerate the DTES, blah, blah, blah. The DTES is there because of the attitudes we have as a society. Everything from the way we don't care about our fellow man to the way we just live our lives without........ nvm.

Our society is basically messed up. It's better to just sweep things under the rug. Politicians don't give a fuck. It's easier to just give out money and look good doing it. There is no easy answer to any of this shit. Throwing negative comments out there sure doesn't help.

Sorry, BaoXu, my comments are not directed at you. Just took the opportunity to throw out some random thoughts. Time for my ritalin, LOL.

[Vinny G]

I used to all the time, I somehow came away unscathed. Imagine that!

My high school was right by the reserve, so probably 1/3 or 1/4 of the students were native. They were no different from the rest of the kids.

I guess you haven't seen urban native kids then. I went to Macdonald Elementary and Britannia Secondary. Probably the two schools with the most native kids in Vancouver. They were far from normal.

In elementary, every year we would have cops come in to lecture us because some native kids kept stealing shit from 7-11 or value village. We had one native kid steal a car (in grade 6!) and crash into someone, killing 4 passengers in the other vehicle. I've been trying to look for the news article but this was in 1998/1999(?), and if anyone else was at Macdonald, the school made a huge deal out of it trying to get sympathy for the kid (what a joke). We had native kids push a pregnant teacher who subsequently left because she didn't feel safe at the school. The education there was just awful as well. We replaced real school material with fucking potlatches and spent 2 weeks making fucking blankets for elders (for FREE). Out of all the people I remember from that school, probably 1 or 2 went onto university/post-secondary with me.

Moving onto high school, you'd start to see the native kids dropping like flies. By grade 9 or 10, you'd have trouble finding a single native still in school. Most of them didn't even take normal classes and were part of some native program where all they did was go on field trips and learn elementary level material.

[MG1]

I went to Macdonald Elementary

I believe that's one of the schools being closed down by the VSB.

[cressydrift]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGoLw6DECNI

[murd0c]

At least the Natives here are more civilized in away. I'm from Winnipeg and the Cherokee and Mohawk Indians they have on the prairies and even in parts of the interior are beyond horrible. I remember being4-5 yrs old playing in the park at the end of my street in the summer when a group of 5 of them came up to me. I was being all nice because I didn't know better and then they starting stoneing me and kicked the crap out of me while calling me whitey and rich boy this is our land you don't deserve to be here.

I know it's just a select few that think that way but they do and are actually mad at us for living on "their" land. After that day I had a whole different view of things and I was so young.

I remember coming home and my parents calling the police and they came over and couldn't do anything because they said they would get more mad and lash out so they told me just stay away from those kids.

[taylor192]

^ how about the white bums on the street addicted to crack and cocaine? they want handouts too. yet the government helps them.

Didn't your mama teach you: two wrongs don't make a right.

I think wasting $1.4B on 10,000 residents of the DTES is dumb too.

[taylor192]

Interesting statement there..........

I hope this thread doesn't get to fight club. I hope we get some insight into their (First Nations people) lives, mindset, struggles, challenges, etc. I guess we'll never know because as soon as someone does pipe in, they'll get bombarded with negative comments.
One of my best friends is aboriginal, his family lived like every other family in our small town, yet he qualified for tax and loan exemptions the rest of us did not. Hell we even copied his Indian status card so we could get the tax exemptions too!

To be clear, I have no problems with most first nations people. I have a problem giving them benefits above and beyond the rest of Canadians. If they want to be left alone to live a simple life, then go do it. The Amish do it successfully without government handouts. If they want to integrate into our society, like many have, then great. Yet why did my friend need special privileges when his family is no different than others in my small town?

I hope it does not go to fight club cause some people here do need education on both sides. I have been educated, and my opinion stands.

[RRxtar]

They want everything the 'white man' has given them, plus everything they had originally, plus more.

I say, they should make a choice: you either live in the world the 'white man' has created for you. or we build you an area with a 20 foot high wall in the middle of the forest somewhere, and you give the 'white man' back your house, your car, your reading glasses, your ability to read, your money, your clothes, your guns, your tools, your computer, your medicine, and we give you a loin cloth and a bow and arrow. I bet you none of the natives take that deal.

[RRxtar]

and whoever posted about the "Kelowna indian cheif", its actually called the "Westbank First Nations", and is lead by Chief Robert Louie. The Westbank First Nations are one of the most successfull Indiand Bands in the world and have actually worked very hard to get to where they are.

they dont just sit around collecting government handouts. just look at Robert Louie's bio.
•Bachelor of Law, LLB, University of Victoria – 1982 Graduate
•Business Commerce Courses – 2 years
•Business Administration Diploma, Okanagan University College – 1975 Graduate
•Order of Canada (OOC), 2006
•Okanagan College Distinguished Alumni Award

he is a very successfull business man in the 'white man' world and uses that success to help grow his native community. the WFN is an example more first nations should follow.


just to give you a perspective on how they are viewed, the Westbank Walmart is the only Walmart in the world built on Native land. they have a policy to NOT build on Native land.

[Drow]

there was only 1 native kid that was actually real nice and cool... i rmb he was a buddy of mine in elementary

all other encounters with natives are bad. they all stare you down and think theyre pretty gangster with their 90's clothes. I remember a group of young native adults who were harassing everybody at a skytrain station. went to some small town near kelowna with my family for a few days and i saw packs of native kids doing nothing but sit there and stare down people with their ghetto ass boombox blasting rap music.

[RRxtar]

I remember a group of young native adults who were harassing everybody at a skytrain station. went to some small town near kelowna with my family for a few days and i saw packs of native kids doing nothing but sit there and stare down people with their ghetto ass boombox blasting rap music.
so just like any less fortunate white/asian/black/mexican group in any city in north america

[Phil@rise]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
The more the Indians squeak the more they get greased. Its our pushover government that keeps doing the greasing.
I say fuck em you've been given enough now make the best of it like the rest of us. I've got plenty of Indian friends and thats what they've done and guess what they are productive self sufficient members of society. It's the rez life and mentality that breeds such views of entitlement gluttony and self pity.

[murd0c]

It's just like any race there's good people and bad people. The only difference with the natives is that when they drink and use drugs they get more out of control compared to other races. You can't single out a whole race because of a way a select few of people or a group acts.

It's like seeing a blond hair blue eyed white person and thinking they could be a Nazi or seeing a black person and think they are a gangster. Even tho I don't agree with the Natives using this is our land we want money and name changes and really blowing it out of control there is a large group who works hard for their money and doesn't ask the band for handouts. I think this people need to be more outspoken in a way but I think they are too worried cause they will be a outcast if they actually spoke their minds.

[El Bastardo]

I grew up in a small town on the island and for a while my mom would rent my grandmother's old house for a little extra money. We rented to a native family and that worked out well for all of two months. By the time the third month rolled around and we noticed the yard was strewn with a partially dis-assembled car, kids toys, and trash bags ripped open by raccoons we said something about it.
The month after that we had a hard time collecting the rent and after that we were told to "Fuck off" because this is "Their land anyway" all because our "Grandparents had stolen from them"

I'm a first generation Canadian on one side and a third generation Canadian on the other side. Most of my ancestors were busy being repressed by communists, fascists, and fighting in the name of the Queen to ensure that Hitler's "Final Solution" didn't turn the noble aboriginal people's contribution to the world into a paragraph in a history book.

Oh, and we actually owned the property too.


Anyway, a few broken windows later we were left to clean up the mess when they carted off their possessions in the middle of the night.


I'm not sure why they left the comfort of the reservation to intrude on our lives but I can only assume they returned after costing us a few hundred dollars in repairs and screwing us out of a month's rent.


I won't let that experience sour me on an entire people. That would be ignorant.


I do have a unique perspective, however, because I do (at my job) deal with some band officials who have to speak on the behalf of their residents due to a low ability to function outside of the reserve.

I think the reserve system does far more harm than it does good. Instead of creating a unique community in which a people who feel oppressed can feel comfortable it makes a tidy bubble that keeps the rest of society out. Like it or not, Canada does have a status quo and if you're not able to cut it, thats ok. The one thing you can't do is complain about it.

The aboriginal people of Australia don't receive anywhere near as much social assistance and they still manage to acclimate and succeed pretty well. And man... the pomes did a number on them.


Revscene's discussion isn't going to solve the world's problems or bring light to how the native people are treated in 2010 but I am pleasantly surprised that we've gone 3 pages and have only had to lay the points smackdown on one person. Good job!


Oh, and I would love to see NativeRus make an appearance in this thread. The last "Native" thread he was involved with he rocked that ass (IIRC)
Paging Dr. Rus....

[MG1]

I think the reserve system does far more harm than it does good. Instead of creating a unique community in which a people who feel oppressed can feel comfortable it makes a tidy bubble that keeps the rest of society out.

Totally agree with you.

Speaking of unique communities, this reminded me of the internment camps of WWII.

Oh, and I would love to see NativeRus make an appearance in this thread. The last "Native" thread he was involved with he rocked that ass (IIRC)
Paging Dr. Rus....

Link, please..........

Yeah, he should make an appearance.

[El Bastardo]

NativeRus' "Ask an Indian" thread


http://www.revscene.net/forums/ask-indian-t500342.html?t=500342

[asahai69]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.


This.

[Ronin]

It's just like any race there's good people and bad people. The only difference with the natives is that when they drink and use drugs they get more out of control compared to other races. You can't single out a whole race because of a way a select few of people or a group acts.

It's like seeing a blond hair blue eyed white person and thinking they could be a Nazi or seeing a black person and think they are a gangster. Even tho I don't agree with the Natives using this is our land we want money and name changes and really blowing it out of control there is a large group who works hard for their money and doesn't ask the band for handouts. I think this people need to be more outspoken in a way but I think they are too worried cause they will be a outcast if they actually spoke their minds.

It's not a select few. It's the majority. If you see a successful, well-mannered, educated First Nation's person, they are in the minority.

If you look at statistics, Natives are off the charts when it comes to suicide, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, etc.

[vafanculo]

I got a question about native and booze. I heard when I was younger that natives have (can't really explain it) a bit different blood level that affects their handling of booze. I know I didn't word it right, but is there any truth to this?
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[murd0c]

I got a question about native and booze. I heard when I was younger that natives have (can't really explain it) a bit different blood level that affects their handling of booze. I know I didn't word it right, but is there any truth to this?
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yes that is actually the case, for some reason they react to the alcohol I think it's because they have only been used to it for a couple hundred years so their body act's differently too it.

[RRxtar]

believe it or not, asians have the same genetic alcohol tollerance problem as native americans. nearly 1/3rd of both race's lack all the enzime associated with breaking down alchohol.

you know how lots of asians get red when they drink? thats a tell tale sign of it.

while asians have maybe sipped on alcohol dating back thousands of years, like murdoc said, people of european decent, really like to drink, and the blood line has been more exposed to heavy drinking for alot longer developing an alcohol 'tollerance' at a genetic level.

[PiuYi]

hmmm, i knew this kid in HS that was 1/16th native.

fucker got into ubc with shit for marks, didnt do shit in school

fucking pissed me off

forgot to mention this too in my rant

everybody works like dogs to earn their way into universities and first nations have spots RESERVED for them? why don't they have to work and study their way into universities like everyone else? since when was it their birth given right to have a university education when everyone else has to compete (marks wise) to be accepted into a university?

reserving spots for them is not only unfair, it degrades the value of my degree. The international reputation of Canadian degrees takes a heavy hit when people from other countries learn that you can earn one by cutting corners

[Ronin]

Especially now with entrance requirements as high as they are. It's like a 90+ average to make it into UBC now.

[deuel_1]

This thread is exactly why native people won't / can't assimilate, we are all the same to you. Me i'll be fine because I was raised by a woman who instilled confidence in me. I know I am your equal, most first nations don't know that.
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[murd0c]

This thread is exactly why native people won't / can't assimilate, we are all the same to you. Me i'll be fine because I was raised by a woman who instilled confidence in me. I know I am your equal, most first nations don't know that.
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Thanks for saying that. If more people had the mind frame as you this world will be a better place.

I didn't realize that most first nations don't know or have understood that everyone equal. I personally have never thought other wise but can understand why they feel that way after reading and talking about it in the open like this.

[JD¹³]

The DTES is there because of the attitudes we have as a society.
The DTES exists because it's a haven for people who have made poor life decisions, and we allow them to continue sucking at life.

People in the DTES and the native's that live on reserves that waste and destroy everything they never had to work for have a LOT in common. Canada is an extremely tolerant country with all kinds of social programs to help anyone and everyone with almost every conceivable problem. All the addicts and self-destructive natives do is use and abuse the taxpayers. The DTES and rundown reserves exist because our society coddles the weak.

These people will never "fix" themselves because they have no incentive to, we'll just keep giving them handouts. Cut them off and they either get their shit together or slip deeper and weed themselves out of the gene pool. Personally (and sadly) it's about time we did this, it's gonna happen eventually anyway. It has to.

I whole heartedly agree that native people have had way way way more than their fare share of handouts. I worked for a company that did residential and community developments on reserves. We were building a community center on one reserve and I remember delivering materials when the drywall was just being put up. 6 weeks later making a delivery for another project on the same reserve that community center was already vandalized, graffiti'd, had holes punched in the drywall.... it was ruined. What a joke, cut them off.

[MG1]

These people will never "fix" themselves because they have no incentive to, we'll just keep giving them handouts. Cut them off and they either get their shit together or slip deeper and weed themselves out of the gene pool. Personally (and sadly) it's about time we did this, it's gonna happen eventually anyway. It has to.

Thank you for proving my point.:)

Cut them off and they either get their shit together or come by your house or mine and slit our throats for another fix.

It's nobody's problem until it becomes ours. <------ didn't come out right. Anyway........... this thread has run its course for me. I'll just sit back and enjoy.

[Death2Theft]

Part of the problem lies with native parents being the biggest pushovers i've ever seen. The kids can get away with anything.

[t8v6]

forgot to mention this too in my rant

everybody works like dogs to earn their way into universities and first nations have spots RESERVED for them? why don't they have to work and study their way into universities like everyone else? since when was it their birth given right to have a university education when everyone else has to compete (marks wise) to be accepted into a university?

reserving spots for them is not only unfair, it degrades the value of my degree. The international reputation of Canadian degrees takes a heavy hit when people from other countries learn that you can earn one by cutting corners


i was told 60% of all natives who get into UBC get kicked out after the 1st year due to failing grades, not sure if the numbers are true or not
but even if they get in doesn't necessarily mean they're staying in

[Noir]

This thread is exactly why native people won't / can't assimilate, we are all the same to you. Me i'll be fine because I was raised by a woman who instilled confidence in me. I know I am your equal, most first nations don't know that.
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By "we are all the same to you" you mean that you're all poverty stricken, crime ridden, social outcasts, then no.

You guys are all the same because you guys get benefits that the rest of Canadians do not qualify for in tax exemptions, band funds, post-secondary educational favouring.

Even if you guys rise out of poverty, crime, and social class, you will still be ire of the nation until you have those entitlement removed from you.

[Ronin]

Sorry but the Natives are a lost cause and the government should just cut them off. It's a waste of money and resources.

Seriously, give them nothing...what are they going to do about it? Go to war? If they don't like it, they'll have to make something of themselves. If not then they'll just be another extinct race that won't be missed anywhere. You never hear anyone say "Damn, I wish the Aztecs weren't wiped out."

No one will care. They've made few contributions to the human race and are a drain on society.

[deuel_1]

By "we are all the same to you" you mean that you're all poverty stricken, crime ridden, social outcasts, then no.

You guys are all the same because you guys get benefits that the rest of Canadians do not qualify for in tax exemptions, band funds, post-secondary educational favouring.

Even if you guys rise out of poverty, crime, and social class, you will still be ire of the nation until you have those entitlement removed from you.

by were all the same I mean regular people Im a much better person than you could ever hope to be
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[deuel_1]

Sorry but the Natives are a lost cause and the government should just cut them off. It's a waste of money and resources.

Seriously, give them nothing...what are they going to do about it? Go to war? If they don't like it, they'll have to make something of themselves. If not then they'll just be another extinct race that won't be missed anywhere. You never hear anyone say "Damn, I wish the Aztecs weren't wiped out."

No one will care. They've made few contributions to the human race and are a drain on society.

I could care less about them being cut off I grew up the same as everyone else here never had a tax exemption in my life. Why you ask I don't live on a shitty reserve that's why. Ya I was funded for my education that's the extent of my government hand out. Which was not a direct hand out the government gives the money to the bands who than use that money for different departments some use more for educational spending than others mine happened to be one of the ones that used less and my brother is paying off a student loan just like the non spoiled rich kids around here
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[vafanculo]

I don't have an educated opinion on this topic, but here's my strong thoughts. Correct me where I'm wrong:

The natives are a group of people who have been done wrong by the whiteman a million years ago or whatever, and Canada was nice enough to give them some land and voice, which they clearly like to express.

Ever since, the natives have their land placed under a bridge, near rivers, basically not the mo's desirable of places. they understandably hold a grudge.

My guess is they will probably never start respecting the whiteman even if they some how become the majority and start dominating in government, legal power , etc.

Now, Canada, especially BC, is very multicultural and we share the cities with Asians, Europeans, africans, etc... Many of whom migrate without speaking the language, and yet they become a part within the melting pot. But then, right across town we have a group of people who live along us, but for some reason they are not part of us.

Not only do we share land, these people have been given their own land, AND if that's not good enough, they are given perks. Like a house, or education, the kind of things the people around them have to work really hard for and lately most of them may never be able to afford all. And to run salt in the wound, majority of time the money and kickbacks are completely wasted, along with the people receiving them. Really nice of Canada.

I think this is where most people in this thread start sharing the same thoughts and anger. Wiith all of these advantages, natives still have the mindframe to ask why the rest of society around them, doesn't view them as equals. Gee, you think? Kind of reminds me of that joke about feminists who fight for equality, but where are they when the bill comes?

I'm not racist towards native people. Maybe just peeved at them. it's turned into a bad cycle now, and it has to end. Government needs to stop giving them money, the same money that can be very useful for society during recession so everyone benefits, not just one group. They need to say that's enough, no more complaints, demands, join the rest of us or quite frankly do your own thing.

I'd even be happy to see one last effort by putting that money into programs to councel, train, and rehabilitate to join one society, rather than to SUPPORT.

Ofcourse, that will never happen. I hate to say it, but as ignorant as it sounds... The natives are the cancerous moles on our back, time to remove it.
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[1exotic]

My big thing with the natives is they don't know the difference between a sidewalk and road. Just tonight driving on that strech of road on Hastings near the PNE. A native guy was walking across the middle of the road dressed in black without looking, just barely missed from killing him, or breaking both his legs at the least.


PS, can someone please explain this to me. Natives use to live in the "nature" and shit hundreds of years ago. How come they want or need "land". Can't they just live in a normal house, like normal people? I mean it's fuckin 2010, BRO. BROLOSKI.

[deuel_1]

But your views are all skewed and incorrect. Natives pay for their homes they just pay less than you, but struggle with those debts just as much or more because they have hard times gettingthe job that you got because your not a drunk. Who's to say he is? Well you of course cause all natives are the same once we come off the reserve were all just drunken savages lookingto hurt you than we scurry back to our fantastic free homes atthe end of the month when the next welfare check comes right? Wrong if you want natives to change stop treating them different in your every day life and maybe than they'll be able to accept that we are the same
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[deuel_1]

Also it's not about what happened hundreds of years ago it's what happened less than a century ago it's what affected generations that still live today our ancestors try our parents and grandparents taken from their homes and brutalized my mothers father escaped it and his wife did not and she beat my eldest aunt and uncle because she thought that was how white people raised their children becuase that's the way she was raised by the white people at her residential school.


Don't get me wrong I am not against you all I am with you I want my people to take a step forward out of the shadows and become more respected. But they can't do it because we have to deal with everything that's said in these threads all the time
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[Noir]

by were all the same I mean regular people Im a much better person than you could ever hope to be
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Good for you. Now how much of that did my friends and I pay for?

Whether you've used those benefits to the same degree as your peers or not, until it changes that the Native Indian status alone entitles you to government benefits, I don't see how "the regular people" will change their outlook on Native Indians.

[deuel_1]

You and your friends probably paid for about as much as my life as I have since I was old enough to pay taxes I have my tax returns go back a good 12 years with no exemptions my fathers go back atleast 40 (he's 58) my mothers go back a good 30 my sisters go back 15 my brothers go back 14 you get my drift? I pay taxes too I paid for "them" as much as you and your friends my family like hundreds if not thousands of off reserve natives pay taxes just as you do.

And for the record my native status was taken when my people finalized their treaty.

So am I still different than you aside from my skin color?
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[Shun Izaki]

Oh god, not more native demands. Seriously, why are they still whining?

No one should have to apologize for winning. I don't get why white people even feel guilty about it.

I'm Chinese and Chinese people had to work on railroads or some shit here in Canada in basically slave conditions. You don't see me crying about head taxes and whatever my people had to do a hundred years ago.

Dude, i don't want to pay taxes on my new exhaust, I need a status card... STAT! and it better be in chinese.

by were all the same I mean regular people Im a much better person than you could ever hope to be
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a cocky native to FURTHER the stereotype...

You and your friends probably paid for about as much as my life as I have since I was old enough to pay taxes I have my tax returns go back a good 12 years with no exemptions my fathers go back atleast 40 (he's 58) my mothers go back a good 30 my sisters go back 15 my brothers go back 14 you get my drift? I pay taxes too I paid for "them" as much as you and your friends my family like hundreds if not thousands of off reserve natives pay taxes just as you do.

And for the record my native status was taken when my people finalized their treaty.

So am I still different than you aside from my skin color?
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so uh... did you get into UBC with that kind run-on like sentence structure there?

[Ranterok]

If natives want to be on the same level as the rest of vancouver, maybe they should do something about it besides bitch. Look at philipino people or any other race, they come to canada, work shitty jobs, do their best to make ends meet and they find ways to make money, be comfurtable. all natives need to know is that hard works prevails in the end. Walking around acting to "thug" won't make ur family less poort, some kids need to stop fighting, drinking, blazing and go get a job, help out at home. Why is it that single moms do better than full natives family? Its bullshit, you got all ur offerings years ago. They should be thrilled that their requests are even being entertained.
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[deuel_1]

Nope I didn't, never had the thought of going to a university like that. Was there for hockey school once though. And what stereotype am I furthering? Please enlighten me if my people had the confidence I have we wouldn't be here right now talking about this would we? You want to put me in my place your gonna have to try a lot harder than that or maybe you could just open your eyes and see that what I am saying is truthful.

Ps. you sound like my English prof, never was good with punctuation when I type something meaningful.
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[BaoXu]

is this thread racist or are all the rants here completely justified?

[Culverin]

Thank you for proving my point.:)

Cut them off and they either get their shit together or come by your house or mine and slit our throats for another fix.

It's nobody's problem until it becomes ours. <------ didn't come out right. Anyway........... this thread has run its course for me. I'll just sit back and enjoy.


Actually, I'm curious what it's like in Hong Kong.
I'm sure there are drugs there. And poverty must surely exist there too, but there isn't a social safety net like ours.

Doesn't that just force a more productive city?
Either you work, or you die from starvation.

I'm not sure if there's a minimum wage there, but I suspect not.

Just let free market run it's course without government interference from:
a. minimum wage
b. allowing unions
c. putting up with special interest groups

[El Bastardo]

And for the record my native status was taken when my people finalized their treaty.



Are you Nisga'a? If so, can you help me (us) understand why the Nisga'a gave up their native status in that treaty?

[_Hotsauce_]

But your views are all skewed and incorrect. Natives pay for their homes they just pay less than you, but struggle with those debts just as much or more because they have hard times gettingthe job that you got because your not a drunk. Who's to say he is? Well you of course cause all natives are the same once we come off the reserve were all just drunken savages lookingto hurt you than we scurry back to our fantastic free homes atthe end of the month when the next welfare check comes right? Wrong if you want natives to change stop treating them different in your every day life and maybe than they'll be able to accept that we are the same
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I have done ALOT of work, and I mean alot, working for a foundation here that rescues animals that are abused on Reserves. Basically, we would build pens for these animals so they would have a place to stay, instead of being chain up, to the point where their skin grows around their collars. I've seen dead dogs, due to the miscare of their owners. Due to the fact that I am an animal lover, and I have seen some fucking disgusting dogs, I would classify these people as "savage"

When going to the reserves to build these pens, 9 out of 10 times EVERYONE of age in the house is drinking, and sometimes smoking pot, from the time we get there, till the time we leave (usually 8am arrival 5pm departure). No one is thankful, no one gives a fucking rats ass about their pets, their homes etc. I have not once seen a property that is not covered in shit, garbage, cars etc. They have AMAZING fucking properties, beautiful views etc. One place in particular, I'm not sure of the reserve name, but they just had a brand new school built for them. GREAT, yet the rest of the reserve looks like a gigantic bag of shit.

I do not consider my self a racist, and have a few native friends who I've met at College, which is fucking great! Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT they get free schooling? Yeah, and I've seen MAYBE 1 or 2 in college/uni. The ones that I do know are trying to make a difference for their people. GREAT, to bad it's .00001% of their people, the rest? Who knows. I don't treat them different in "every day life", as I stated, I'm great friends with everyone I have met in College/Uni, but when "every day life" involves getting drunk all day, every day, it's kinda hard not to group them with the fucking drunks, drug addicts and other pos's of society?

I have seen first hand these conditions, and have spoken in depth with the owner of the foundation who works strictly (for the past 25 years I believe) with Native Americans and abused animals....so it's kinda hard not to group them into this catagory. It's difficult when the bad far out number the good, from personal experience (nothing more)

[deuel_1]

Are you Nisga'a? If so, can you help me (us) understand why the Nisga'a gave up their native status in that treaty?

We had no choice that's what it means to sign a treaty to become self governed you are no longer wards of the court thus no longer a status native
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[rsx]

Let me get this straight, the aboriginals lost their land to European invaders, but to this day is getting compensated for losing?

I can't think of any example where the losing team gets compensated by the winners.

Everyone has to earn their way through life. NO exceptions. Everyone on here believes it, but the damn government is too PC to do shit about it.

[deuel_1]

I have done ALOT of work, and I mean alot, working for a foundation here that rescues animals that are abused on Reserves. Basically, we would build pens for these animals so they would have a place to stay, instead of being chain up, to the point where their skin grows around their collars. I've seen dead dogs, due to the miscare of their owners. Due to the fact that I am an animal lover, and I have seen some fucking disgusting dogs, I would classify these people as "savage"

When going to the reserves to build these pens, 9 out or 10 times EVERYONE of age in the house is drinking, and sometimes smoking pot, from the time we get there, till the time we leave (usually 8am arrival 5pm departure). No one is thankful, no one gives a fucking rats ass about their pets, their homes etc. I have not once seen a property that is not covered in shit, garbage, cars etc. They have AMAZING fucking properties, beautiful views etc. One place in particular, I'm not sure of the reserve name, but they just had a brand new school built for them. GREAT, yet the rest of the reserve looks like a gigantic bag of shit.

I do not consider my self a racist, and have a few native friends who I've met at College, which is fucking great! Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT they get free schooling? Yeah, and I've seen MAYBE 1 or 2 in college/uni. The ones that I do know are trying to make a difference for their people. GREAT, to bad it's .00001% of their people, the rest? Who knows. I don't treat them different in "every day life", as I stated, I'm great friends with everyone I have met in College/Uni, but when "every day life" involves getting drunk all day, every day, it's kinda hard not to group them with the fucking drunks, drug addicts and other pos's of society?

I have seen first hand these conditions, and have spoken in depth with the owner of the foundation who works strictly (for the past 25 years I believe) with Native Americans and abused animals....I'd say she's got a pretty good idea of WTF is up.

You probably know more natives than I do and have been to more reserves than me too right? I've never encountered such attrocities not with any of my family or friends from the reserve ive owned two dogs and love em both one lived 15 years the other is now 16 my aunt has a 12 year old boxer we are not all the same just because your limited experience tells you so.
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[El Bastardo]

I can't think of any example where the losing team gets compensated by the winners.



Slavery reparations

[deuel_1]

Let me get this straight, the aboriginals lost their land to European invaders, but to this day is getting compensated for losing?

I can't think of any example where the losing team gets compensated by the winners.

Everyone has to earn their way through life. NO exceptions. Everyone on here believes it, but the damn government is too PC to do shit about it.

It's not really just about losing our land it's more about what happened after losing our land you take a peoples land fine that's war you brutalize those people that's a crime of humanity.
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[98twofourty]

Even every
young native gets a good sized handout when they reach a specific age.


Where do u get your facts? did u just step off the boat yesterday?

[98twofourty]

Also it's not about what happened hundreds of years ago it's what happened less than a century ago it's what affected generations that still live today our ancestors try our parents and grandparents taken from their homes and brutalized my mothers father escaped it and his wife did not and she beat my eldest aunt and uncle because she thought that was how white people raised their children becuase that's the way she was raised by the white people at her residential school.


Don't get me wrong I am not against you all I am with you I want my people to take a step forward out of the shadows and become more respected. But they can't do it because we have to deal with everything that's said in these threads all the time
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I couldnt have said it better myself, its amazing the amount of ignorant assumptions people make and then base there treatment of native ppl upon there ignorant thoughts. I cant stand these threads because there are so many people who know fuckin diddly squat speaking up instead of picking up a book, or learning anything about what has happened to native canadians. Ill bet less then 5 people here have ever even heard of a treaty.

[snowball]

^

This thread is full of ignorance about the past and generalizations about native people. I'm sure most people on revscene are better than the posters in this thread, they just avoid replying because it's pointless arguing with a bunch of tools that only understand history through their presentist context

[PiuYi]

by were all the same I mean regular people Im a much better person than you could ever hope to be

please don't make this personal or it will end up in fightclub, keep comments objective

You want to put me in my place your gonna have to try a lot harder than that or maybe you could just open your eyes and see that what I am saying is truthful.

listen, nobody is "trying to put you in your place", stop feeling so victimized, nobody here is looking down upon natives, everyone's speaking from personal experience, but if everybody's personal experiences are similar then there's obviously got to be some truth behind it

i just want to know when the government will stop subsidizing first nations for school/housing etc., i want EQUAL treatment from the gov't of all races BECAUSE i think you are all equally capable of succeeding as the rest of us

[El Bastardo]

This is a good thread, lets keep it on topic. Take any personal shit down to Fight Club

[Tapioca]

Here's a brief history lesson to those spouting off rants about eliminating Indian status, the reserve system, etc.

1763:
Royal Proclamation from the King of England. Land occupied by Indians cannot be sold or occupied unless agreed to by the Indians themselves and only if the land is surrendered to the Crown (i.e government.) This document is essentially the foundation for First Nations-government relations today.

1969:
Jean Chretien, Minister of Indian Affairs, releases a white paper advocating for the elimination of the Indian reserve system, the abolishment of the Indian Act, and the assimilation of Indians into Canadian society

1970s:
- The Indian Chiefs of Alberta release a response to the white paper and oppose all aspects of the white paper.
- The Calder decision: the Supreme Court of Canada recognizes Aboriginal title (i.e. First Nations had an interest in land prior to colonization)
- The Canadian government backs down and establishes the Office of Native Claims to resolves First Nation historical grievances

1982:
- Aboriginal rights are confirmed in s.35 of the 1982 Constitution Act.

There were also a couple of Supreme Court decisions that confirmed the existence of Aboriginal title - the Guerin decision in 1984 and the Delgamuukw decision in 1997. The Supreme Court has stated that Aboriginal title is unique and is protected by the Constitution which is why governments and companies need to consult with First Nations whenever they want to do something on First Nations land.

Basically, the privileges that First Nations enjoy are supported in law and have been continually upheld by the courts. No government has attempted to turn back the clock and abolish the Indian Act, eliminate the reserve system, etc. because not only would it be politically difficult, such actions wouldn't stand up in court either.

(And let me remind you about how our judicial system works before you respond by saying something ludicrous like, "We should have elected judges. Screw all the hippies in the courts!" Supreme Court judges are appointed by the Prime Minister. Our system of law (at the federal level anyway) is the common law which is based on precedent.)

[threezero]

^ what is this indian act you are talking about. Cause the "Indian Act" of 1952 was a extremly racist act that include crimes design specifically for the native. For example the act made it so is a crime for native to be caught drunk off of reserves. Majority if not all of the Indian Act has now been struck down because it violates our charter of rights. I'm not aware of other acts call "Indian Act" other than this racist pos. please school me.

[SkinnyPupp]

^ what is this indian act you are talking about. Cause the "Indian Act" of 1952 was a extremly racist act that include crimes design specifically for the native. For example the act made it so is a crime for native to be caught drunk off of reserves. Majority if not all of the Indian Act has now been struck down because it violates our charter of rights. I'm not aware of other acts call "Indian Act" other than this racist pos. please school me.
Social Studies Grade 11 material right here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Proclamation_of_1763#Native_lands

[Brianrietta]

For example the act made it so is a crime for native to be caught drunk off of reserves.

God forbid that natives can't be drunk in a public place, just like everyone else. FYI, public intoxication will get you arrested no matter whether you were drinking JW Blue Label, or Listerine...

[threezero]

God forbid that natives can't be drunk in a public place, just like everyone else. FYI, public intoxication will get you arrested no matter whether you were drinking JW Blue Label, or Listerine...

IIRC you can only get arrested if you are drunk AND being rowdy, maybe throwing and damaging shit. I've see lots of people just being drunk on the street, shit i've been one. Never been hassle by the police unless you are trying to start shit

[Culverin]

Legally, you can't be intoxicated in public.

Our po po aren't so bad that they are going to bother you if you're a sleepy-well-behaved-drunk.

They will even let it slide if your a loud-but-happy-drunk.

But if you're an angry-start-shit-with-others-drunk, that's where they draw the line.

[taylor192]

Basically, the privileges that First Nations enjoy are supported in law and have been continually upheld by the courts. No government has attempted to turn back the clock and abolish the Indian Act, eliminate the reserve system, etc. because not only would it be politically difficult, such actions wouldn't stand up in court either.

(And let me remind you about how our judicial system works before you respond by saying something ludicrous like, "We should have elected judges. Screw all the hippies in the courts!" Supreme Court judges are appointed by the Prime Minister. Our system of law (at the federal level anyway) is the common law which is based on precedent.)
Let me remind you: Government can override the supreme court.

Just cause a government hasn't done it yet doesn't mean we won't have a government that eventually does it.

[Tapioca]

Let me remind you: Government can override the supreme court.

Just cause a government hasn't done it yet doesn't mean we won't have a government that eventually does it.

Oh really?

The notwithstanding clause only applies to sections 2 and 7-15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (none of which relate to Aboriginal rights.)

The Crown is certainly free to challenge any decision made by a lower court, but the Supreme Court is the final court of the land. Any decision it makes on anything is final and all lower courts and governments must comply with the spirit of its decisions.

[TylerY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teq8-3Xitxc

[Great68]

just to give you a perspective on how they are viewed, the Westbank Walmart is the only Walmart in the world built on Native land. they have a policy to NOT build on Native land.

That's not true, the old Walmart in Duncan was built on native land...

[Gridlock]

First, I'd like to thank deuel_1 for taking a shit pile of abuse in this thread, and maintaining a calm demeanor.

I think what a lot of the arrogant bigots would prefer would be for them to say things like, "should have finished them off", have him get mad and claim that he's just another angry indian. Classic straw man argument.

Let's also get another thing straight...it wasn't stealing a little land, it was genocide. Pure and simple. We say, but that was mostly in the states. Sure, it was pretty ruthless there. The Indian Wars were brutal in their efficiency. This was after they continually pushed Indians westward multiple times. Oh..then Custer decided it was time for a slaughter. We did the same things here...met any Indians from Newfoundland? I think that must count as one of the few genocides that was completed.

[mikemhg]

I don't agree with a lot of the handouts Native Folks continue to receive, but the latent amount of racism in this thread is pretty sick.

What is more funny is that a lot of it is coming from Asian Immigrants.

Come on now, keep it civil.

[Ch28]

I don't agree with a lot of the handouts Native Folks continue to receive, but the latent amount of racism in this thread is pretty sick.

What is more funny is that a lot of it is coming from Asian Immigrants.

Come on now, keep it civil.

Difference is that all the Asian Immigrants are out there getting an education and working like the rest of you white folks while a majority of the natives just sit around with their handouts and/or waste their life away doing nothing but mean mugging people at skytrain stations.

[goo3]

maybe the only guidance these mean mugging natives had growing up were mean mugging parents

so i don't think free school to the ones who are strong enough to break the cycle is a bad idea at all

if you have uneducated parents and family members, imagine the difference it would have made in your development if they were educated; and vice versa

how else do you explain ghetto mainlanders?

[Ch28]

^ that is true.

[MG1]

if you have uneducated parents and family members, imagine the difference it would have made in your development if they were educated; and vice versa

Education has nothing to do with it. Attitudes have everything to do with it.

[deuel_1]

to the person who told me to stop feeling so victimized...there are no words or actions that could ever make me feel victimized I'm proud of who I am and where I come from no matter what anyone says to about me or my people. Everything I said in this thread was in hopes that I could change some views of my people whether you choose to believe me or not a lot of us are good people who would give you the shirt off our backs if you needed it. To those of you who choose to hate us all because we have some benefits you don't, I would trade it all if it meant the history of my people could be altered.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[SkinnyPupp]

to the person who told me to stop feeling so victimized...there are no words or actions that could ever make me feel victimized I'm proud of who I am and where I come from no matter what anyone says to about me or my people. Everything I said in this thread was in hopes that I could change some views of my people whether you choose to believe me or not a lot of us are good people who would give you the shirt off our backs if you needed it. To those of you who choose to hate us all because we have some benefits you don't, I would trade it all if it meant the history of my people could be altered.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)
I'm pretty sure you've changed a few minds of some people in here.

[Great68]

My best friend is 1/2 native, adopted by a white family when he was a baby. He is pretty proud of his native heritage, but at the same time he has never gotten a status card, or used any other benefits the government offers natives. He has a good job which he performs well, but outside of work he can be one of the laziest motherfuckers around. But who's to say that has anything to do with his race?

[Culverin]

Nothing says it has to do with race.
But some things are genetic predisposition or cultural predispositions.

Asian people aren't genetically superior in analytical stuff (math, sciences), but their culture pushes them that way.

On the other hand, bad drivers?
The number of horrible asian drivers can't be a coincidence.
So it'd be pretty safe to assume that there's a genetic predisposition there.



As for the whole alcohol issue.
I think that one's tricky. Yes it's kind of a willpower issue.
But at the same time, when you are genetically susceptible to get hammered easily, it doesn't help matters at all.

[Vinny G]

Education has nothing to do with it. Attitudes have everything to do with it.

Truth. My parents were uneducated and poor from China. We used to live in a small apartment near Chinatown. I remember when my parents had to sell our car cause we didn't have enough money. But they kept working hard, saving and they went from an apartment, to a small house, to a 900k (although it was 400k-500k or something like that back in 2000) house with two cars.

I'm currently working as a business analyst right now so I don't think I turned out badly at all with uneducated parents.

[ntan]

Nothing says it has to do with race.
As for the whole alcohol issue.
I think that one's tricky. Yes it's kind of a willpower issue.
But at the same time, when you are genetically susceptible to get hammered easily, it doesn't help matters at all.

Don't Asians have the same genetic predisposition? You don't see us like them.

[goo3]

Education has nothing to do with it. Attitudes have everything to do with it.

Ahh, but that's the catch in this world. Opportunity is the best tool to change attitudes from being lazy to having something to go after. What opportunities do you have if you have no advanced schooling? McDonalds? You can probably make more money hustling on the street while being your own boss. So why is it a surprise ppl do that?

What do you learn on the street? How to be an animal.

What do you learn at a job using knowledge to make things run better? How the world works.

Truth. My parents were uneducated and poor from China. We used to live in a small apartment near Chinatown. I remember when my parents had to sell our car cause we didn't have enough money. But they kept working hard, saving and they went from an apartment, to a small house, to a 900k (although it was 400k-500k or something like that back in 2000) house with two cars.

I'm currently working as a business analyst right now so I don't think I turned out badly at all with uneducated parents.

There's always those who fall through the cracks for various reasons. Did you parents drink? Were they fucked up? Imagine if they were.. would you have been able to fight through? Maybe you could, but it would have been a lot harder and some are bound to fail.

And what's to say you would have figured out as a kid that school was the right path to follow if your parents didn't beat it into you? School itself isn't easy. It's pretty counter-intuitive. Who wants to read shit for 15-20 years? You drop out, have kids.. then what influences do those kids have?

[RabidRat]

to the person who told me to stop feeling so victimized...there are no words or actions that could ever make me feel victimized I'm proud of who I am and where I come from no matter what anyone says to about me or my people. Everything I said in this thread was in hopes that I could change some views of my people whether you choose to believe me or not a lot of us are good people who would give you the shirt off our backs if you needed it. To those of you who choose to hate us all because we have some benefits you don't, I would trade it all if it meant the history of my people could be altered.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

changed my views for sure. i'm prolly not the only one who appreciates you taking the time out, and being as civil as you've been about all this despite everything that's been said in the thread.

[Gridlock]

Anyone can over come their background. And it works both ways.

Poor people can work harder and become something. Drug addicts can choose to stop using. An alcoholic can stop drinking. A large subset of natives can lose some of the chip on their shoulder and let it go. For that matter, some little bitch white kids from the west end can choose not to be a little cock looking down on the world.

It's possible. The problem is, as I see it is that 80-95% are quite happy to live their lives plugged into whatever scenario they are in. Blinders up, they can't even fathom there is a world outside of their sight. They set up the rules they live by, and then do so.

It doesn't matter what scenario they plug themselves into. Name it. Name the race that lives up to the stereotype. I have seen a lot of white trash walking and talking in my life, so as a white guy, I really don't feel we can be pointing fingers.

I look at it really simple. Forget the 80%...they are gone. You have to make sure that guys like deuel get what he needs to make what he can with his choice to do so. It's the same for anyone. He's in the 20% that count.

[ecchiecchi]

Ahh, but that's the catch in this world. Opportunity is the best tool to change attitudes from being lazy to having something to go after. What opportunities do you have if you have no advanced schooling? McDonalds? You can probably make more money hustling on the street while being your own boss. So why is it a surprise ppl do that?

What do you learn on the street? How to be an animal.

What do you learn at a job using knowledge to make things run better? How the world works.

There's always those who fall through the cracks for various reasons. Did you parents drink? Were they fucked up? Imagine if they were.. would you have been able to fight through? Maybe you could, but it would have been a lot harder and some are bound to fail.

And what's to say you would have figured out as a kid that school was the right path to follow if your parents didn't beat it into you? School itself isn't easy. It's pretty counter-intuitive. Who wants to read shit for 15-20 years? You drop out, have kids.. then what influences do those kids have?

Opportunities will not come to those who sit their asses and wait for them. Opportunities come to those who bust their asses and work hard. I know of shitloads of people who have done something with their life w/o finishing post secondary. Why? because they chose to create their own opportunities.

When you work at McDonalds- it's not like you have to stay in one position all your life. There's ways you can do to move up within the company. And if you can't do that, you can jump companies and keep gaining experience. School is not the only way to be successful in life.

My dad was dirt-poor and never finished highschool. That didn't stop him from owning his own business, having 7 cars and 3 houses. On top of that- he had to feed 6 mouths and send 9 people through college. He was a chain-smoker and used to be a heavy drinker.

No matter what situation people are put in- it's their choice to do something about it. You can tell me that I don't know anything about having a fucked up parent- but honestly, just because your parents are fucked up doesn't mean you can blame them for your decisions (and bad decisions) in life.

[neggo]

No matter what situation people are put in- it's their choice to do something about it. You can tell me that I don't know anything about having a fucked up parent- but honestly, just because your parents are fucked up doesn't mean you can blame them for your decisions (and bad decisions) in life.

I was REALLY, REALLY going to refrain from posting in this thread because the majority of people posting here do not get it. This will be my first and last post concerning this topic.

It is easy to see and view things superficially - it is easy to say that correct choices and hard work are ALL an individual will need to put forth in order to be like "the rest of us". Everything is quite easy to generalize once you see the end result and feign ignorance to the trauma each generation has been subject to.

For the past two semesters, I've been given the opportunity to work as a Research Analyst for INAC (Indian and Northern Affairs Canada). Obviously, as a Co-op student, I do not claim to know everything and will never know everything. Being exposed to all present treaty-negotiations and negotiations with First Nations groups is, after all, impossible in the span of 8 months. I do, however, know that the majority of posters here really just post from ignorance and ill-feelings.

Like I said, this will be my first and last post in this particular thread. PM me if you'd like to continue this discussion.

[k2_alpha]

^ you put a huge importance on this is your first and last post.

however, your post states nothing that others have not already said....

[neggo]

^ Essentially, my post was outlining the fact that if anyone would like to have a serious discussion or if anyone wanted to learn more, I could certainly try my best to inform them about the related topic through PM's. This way, people serious about the topic won't have to deal with the racist bigotry flooding this thread.

You do, however, bring up a very valid point - my post seems to imply, though it was not my aim, that I would bring in new ideas to provide further understanding in terms of Native and Aboriginal struggles.

Let me, then, give some of you a little information that will hopefully provide a different perspective.

Many of you think that the government stopped fucking up in regards to Native issues many, many years ago and should, therefore, shutup and accept whatever it is that's being offered to them. The last residential school was shut down in 1996 - THAT was not long ago. Mentally and physically, students there were abused. Absolute horror stories come out of there. Some say that parenting should NOT be an issue when it comes to determining and influencing the choices the children make. Can you really say that when the kids put through those residential schools were essentially "parented" by mentally and physically abusive people? What happens when those kids have kids, then? It becomes a chain of parents lacking parenting skills. Someone can argue that they shouldn't have kids in the first place, but given their background, is it really fair to place all of the blame on them?

Many of you also bring up the point in regards to certain chiefs that own nice cars and big houses. Yes, those types of chiefs do exist, but they are NOT the norm. There are HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of Native Bands, the majority of which do not even have access to clean drinking water. I bet that's new to most of you, isn't it? It sure as hell surprised me when I found out.

Anyway, I broke my rule :p

I've no intention on breaking it again.