[TheNewGirl]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/09/16/bc-conservative-party-hst.html

With the whole down with the liberals fever, the BC Conservative party appears to be making a very well timed come back with some major players in their court. I wouldn't be suprized if eventually some of the Vanderzam/Ant-HST major players joined the party soon as well.

It got me thinking though about the lack of representation of a great deal of political views in this province. Personally I'm fairly liberal (as in slightly left of center not as in the party). But my choices here are a "Liberal" party that really is very far right leaning rather then representing an actual liberal perspective and has proven very untrustworthy, or an NDP party that's extreme left with no track record for fiscal responsibility. Alternately I could support the Green party who I desperately wish would take a page from their federal counter parts and take a social AND economic sustainability approach but currently come off as unorginized hippies. Who is there for me to vote for?

Now in comes the Conservative party. Will the provide an actual, viable alternative to the Liberal party? Or will they just serve to split up the vote more between themselves and the NDP and ensure the Liberals get re-elected?

Any thoughts?

[taylor192]

I think it'll split the vote with the Liberals, giving the NDP a win.

There are many right-leaning Liberals who do not currently like the Liberals and want an alternative that is not the tax and spend badly NDP.

A political forum in VLS would be a much better spot for discussions like this.

[TheNewGirl]

I think it'll split the vote with the Liberals, giving the NDP a win.

There are many right-leaning Liberals who do not currently like the Liberals and want an alternative that is not the tax and spend badly NDP.

A political forum in VLS would be a much better spot for discussions like this.


Do we have one? I didn't see one. If we do, mods please move me!

[q0192837465]

Truth be told some of taylor's arguments r quite well executed. It's always good to have an opinion.

[taylor192]

we don't need another forum so we can hear taylor192 talk to himself.
Stay on topic. I'm sick of being given infractions for replying to insulting members. The only option I have is to report.

[taylor192]

Do we have one? I didn't see one. If we do, mods please move me!
No, we don't have one, yet it would be a great idea. The content in the VLS forums seems to stay on topic and offer more educated/intelligent opinions than the catch-all Off-Topic forum.

I think politically the Liberals did the right thing to send it to a referendum. Yes people can get behind a petition and blindly sign their name, yet a vote means putting more effort in to actually say "I don't like the Liberals, I will vote NDP" which many people who remember the last NDP government will never do.

Watch for the advertising ahead of the HST referendum, my guess it'll be negatively slanted warning that a vote against the HST is a vote for the NDP.

[Nightwalker]

"Until the 1950s, the Conservatives dominated B.C. politics but eventually lost support to the Liberals, and then to the Social Credit party. The party has undergone many changes and has not held a seat since an NDP member of the legislature crossed the floor to sit for the party in 1986."

AHAHAHAHA, I love how they put that.

I'm voting Liberal again unless I see something really convincing around election time from another party. Something not based on HST, because it's not an important issue to me.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Very gov is out there to get $$$ from your pockets and put it in their own. Just which one have to heart to take less.

[q0192837465]

I dun really see the point in voting against HST. For the most part it shifts the tax burden to spenders. I know TheNewGirl will disagree because of the whole issue of being taxed more on child care. But at the same time, it gives people a choice. If you don't like to pay taxes, don't buy on luxury items. The HST is revenue neutral blah blah blah, but whether the govt is lying or not, we now have a lower income tax. I'd rather have a lower income tax than a lower sales tax because if u wanna play, u've gotta pay. If u dun play, then u dun have to pay. I think this is more fair than everybody paying.

Another issue is the money that will be needed to reverse back to GST/PST. Who's gonna pay for all that? Us.

[StylinRed]

its suspected that vander zalm is gonna lead the conservative party again come the next election

at this time though their support is very low(10's%) and the NDPs is higher than the Liberals (40 something % whereas Liberals are in the 30% or thereabouts)


that's a pretty defeatist attitude there q0192837465 (god your name sucks)

[taylor192]

its suspected that vander zalm is gonna lead the conservative party again come the next election
Lets hope not.

[Meowjin]

how can you not remember fantasy gardens?

[q0192837465]

Wasn't Zalm is disgraced leader who had to resign. I dunno guys, I definitely dun feel like voting for someone who has a bad record.

[taylor192]

Wasn't Zalm is disgraced leader who had to resign. I dunno guys, I definitely dun feel like voting for someone who has a bad record.
Yep: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Vander_Zalm

Wow, I wonder if the HST supporters know half of this.

[Culture_Vulture]

Truth be told, I really don't give two shits about political factions. As long as they advocate something I like, they get my vote, because the results usually mean the winning party will eventually fuck up anyways.
Fail me if you want, but I have no faith in a Canadian system that's so soft.

[quasi]

its suspected that vander zalm is gonna lead the conservative party again come the next election

at this time though their support is very low(10's%) and the NDPs is higher than the Liberals (40 something % whereas Liberals are in the 30% or thereabouts)


that's a pretty defeatist attitude there q0192837465 (god your name sucks)

Wait, you mean he may have been using the HST crusade as a spring board to get back into politics? I'm not a big fan of the way the HST was brought it, pretty two faced and dishonest. It does not come as any surprise though if Vander Zalm gets back into politics, guaranteed this was the plan right from the get go of trying to repeal the HST. My dad and I actually had this same conversation when he started making headlines, oh look Vander Zalm getting his name out there you know he's coming back. I don't even have a problem with him getting back in. What I do have a problem with is his thinking that we're to stupid to realize this was the plan from day one.

The big problem is politicians in general take our complacency and mistake it for stupidity. I'd like to think most people are smart enough to realize what is really going on. It's just to bad more people don't vote and make their voice heard.

[JD¹³]

The big problem is politicians in general take our complacency and mistake it for stupidity. I'd like to think most people are smart enough to realize what is really going on. It's just to bad more people don't vote and make their voice heard.
Canada needs to adopt Australia's policy that voting is required by law.

We need their immigration policies too as far as I'm concerned but that's another thread entirely.

[TheNewGirl]

I dun really see the point in voting against HST. For the most part it shifts the tax burden to spenders. I know TheNewGirl will disagree because of the whole issue of being taxed more on child care. But at the same time, it gives people a choice. If you don't like to pay taxes, don't buy on luxury items. The HST is revenue neutral blah blah blah, but whether the govt is lying or not, we now have a lower income tax. I'd rather have a lower income tax than a lower sales tax because if u wanna play, u've gotta pay. If u dun play, then u dun have to pay. I think this is more fair than everybody paying.

Another issue is the money that will be needed to reverse back to GST/PST. Who's gonna pay for all that? Us.

Lowered income tax actually hampers stimulus efforts and most of the economic experts say that we would be better off increasing income tax for the top tax brackets.

That said if the people of BC vote to keep the HST I'll accept that and stop bitching about it :).

I think that Gordo went with the referendum cause his own party members were saying they wouldn't come to the legislation to vote in support of the HST so he knew it would gets struck down there and this is the only way he can buy time until it's all someone else's problem rather then his own.

[TheNewGirl]

Yep: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Vander_Zalm

Wow, I wonder if the HST supporters know half of this.

Ohhhh trust me, I wouldn't vote for Vander Zalm either.

[Culture_Vulture]

Canada needs to adopt Australia's policy that voting is required by law.

We need their immigration policies too as far as I'm concerned but that's another thread entirely.
You make it sound as if compulsory voting makes everything better.
It's not as if it'll lure the educated, truly opinionated people out from hiding to vote.

[q0192837465]

Lowered income tax actually hampers stimulus efforts and most of the economic experts say that we would be better off increasing income tax for the top tax brackets.

That said if the people of BC vote to keep the HST I'll accept that and stop bitching about it :).

I think that Gordo went with the referendum cause his own party members were saying they wouldn't come to the legislation to vote in support of the HST so he knew it would gets struck down there and this is the only way he can buy time until it's all someone else's problem rather then his own.

I dun see how increasing income tax can help stimulate the economy when disposable income is reduced.

By the time of the referendum, I'm sure most people who went apeshit over HST r cooled down and accept the fact that it's part of their lives. The way I see it is that ppl r generally reluctant to change. That's why ppl see HST as an evil beast. When things r settled, ppl dun want tio change again and will start saying how HST somehow improved their lives. I highly doubt the sentiment towards HST can last till the time of the referendum. By then ppl will find something else to hate.

[JD¹³]

You make it sound as if compulsory voting makes everything better.
It's not as if it'll lure the educated, truly opinionated people out from hiding to vote.
Yes it will, because in Australia it's a serious offense not to vote. It also makes it so that whoever is in power actually has the true majority of the vote, they represent what the population wants because EVERYONE had their say. They don't just get in because they were the "best option" and 50% of the eligible voters didn't care enough to do so - like Canada.

[Nightwalker]

^ Everyone does get their say though. 50% just opt to vote "don't care"

I agree mandatory voting would produce better results though :)

[carisear]

Yes it will, because in Australia it's a serious offense not to vote. It also makes it so that whoever is in power actually has the true majority of the vote, they represent what the population wants because EVERYONE had their say. They don't just get in because they were the "best option" and 50% of the eligible voters didn't care enough to do so - like Canada.

no it won't. it'll just make people who care nothing about politics just pissed off more, and vote for more fringe parties/spoil their ballots. the people who want to vote, will, and the people who don't want to, won't.

[carisear]

btw we had a politics section at one time .. i remember quite well seeing johnny get flamed non stop in it :P

anyways whats truly sad is people who will vote for ndp cuz they don't like paying more tax ... yet they don't realize that with the ndp, they'll end up paying infinitely more money for much much less.

[rslater]

This is how the liberals are going to win next election. Prior to elections they are going to say that the success of the HST on BC's economy has allowed the government to raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour.

[Culture_Vulture]

Yes it will, because in Australia it's a serious offense not to vote. It also makes it so that whoever is in power actually has the true majority of the vote, they represent what the population wants because EVERYONE had their say. They don't just get in because they were the "best option" and 50% of the eligible voters didn't care enough to do so - like Canada.
Your argument is predicated on that every vote makes a positive difference.
What about those who know little about politics? And the marginalized? And what about those who just outright don't give a shit, but are forced to vote?

[taylor192]

Canada needs to adopt Australia's policy that voting is required by law.
No we don't. If your vote isn't educated, it is best spoiled or not cast.

The best example I have of this was a city council riding in Ottawa. The incumbent won time after time, although he never showed for city council meetings and didn't do anything for his riding. Why did he win? People ignorantly vote for the incumbent when they don't know any better and things seem fine.

We need their immigration policies too as far as I'm concerned but that's another thread entirely.
Cause with a birth rate < 2 among established Canadians we really need a declining population and deflation to set in. :thumbsup:

You'll be happy to know Australia is a high immigration country like Canada, and that immigration is all that's keeping our population growth positive.

[taylor192]

btw we had a politics section at one time .. i remember quite well seeing johnny get flamed non stop in it :P
Do you know, or any mod care to elaborate what happened to it?

[Sid Vicious]

immigration isn't really a problem, it's just the immigrants tendency to form ethnic enclaves

[taylor192]

immigration isn't really a problem, it's just the immigrants tendency to form ethnic enclaves
This is going off-topic, yet why do you think we have "little Italy" in most Canadian cities. Even during European immigration that dominated the early Canadian history this was still true. We just notice it more today cause the cultures are very different than the European cultures that settled here originally.

[Lomac]

Do you know, or any mod care to elaborate what happened to it?

I set one up a few years back (Current Events Forum) but it wasn't active enough to justify remaining as it's own subforum. We merged it with VOT after one of our major upgrades a while ago.

[Lomac]

As for the thread... Well, there's no way in hell that I'd vote for Bill regardless of whatever party he would head. I'm more or less a Liberal, though more along the lines of the Federal party, not the Provincial since they tend to basically fall under the same category as the Federal's Conservative party. The NDP has fucked BC over too many times in the past and while I'm sure Carol James has good intentions, I have no faith in their platform or their ideas of how to fix certain aspects of the economy, their take on taxation, and many other issues.

Personally I have no problem with the HST. Yes, I really don't like how it was implemented, but I notice very little in the way of a difference when I go out and spend money. Most things I buy were already subjected to both PST and GST, and those that were PST exempt beforehand, well... it's not hard to cut back on 'em. So my morning coffee and bagel costs an extra fifteen cents... so my next car might end up being an extra couple thousand after all is said and done... boohoo. I can live with having slightly less change in my car for the first, and I'll just save up for an extra couple weeks for the second. Oh well, it's life. I'd rather have a lower income tax and a higher consumption tax than the other way around. It just means I can be more aware of what I spend my money on, and if I don't spend the money, it's more to save.

At least we aren't paying European gas prices.

[goo3]

Lowered income tax actually hampers stimulus efforts and most of the economic experts say that we would be better off increasing income tax for the top tax brackets.

Lower tax (income or sales) increases stimulus in the economy.

The media is not the place to learn about basic econ. 80% of the experts on tv are liars. If your house had no windows, they'd try to convince you that the sky is purple.

immigration isn't really a problem, it's just the immigrants tendency to form ethnic enclaves

You might as well not have immigration in a free country. Or only allow Canadians to immigrate to Canada, LOL.

[JD¹³]

The theory behind the Australian policy is that if you are required by law to vote you will take at least take the time to learn the differences between parties and vote accordingly. That has been the case with all my Australian friends and their families. They, unlike a LOT of Canadians, care about their country and the governing of it.

Yes Australia is a pro-immigration country but they don't just let anyone in. They have a points system and are very selective. Don't speak English? Don't have a degree or sponsoring employer? Don't pass the national knowledge test after having permanent residency for a minimum of 2 years? You're probably going to be denied. One things for damn sure, the Navy turns away ALL the boats full of freeloaders that Canada so generously let in to suck away money and resources from Canadians themselves. Pathetic.

Anyways way off topic... Carry on :lol
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Meowjin]

i will support any party that introduces a 100 dollar fee to enter a casino in bc.

[quasi]

i will support any party that introduces a 100 dollar fee to enter a casino in bc.

The Government benefits from the Casino more then anyone, would never happen. You'd have a better chance finding a party that will pay models to suck your dick for your vote.

[taylor192]

The theory behind the Australian policy is that if you are required by law to vote you will take at least take the time to learn the differences between parties and vote accordingly. That has been the case with all my Australian friends and their families. They, unlike a LOT of Canadians, care about their country and the governing of it.

Yes Australia is a pro-immigration country but they don't just let anyone in. They have a points system and are very selective. Don't speak English? Don't have a degree or sponsoring employer? Don't pass the national knowledge test after having permanent residency for a minimum of 2 years? You're probably going to be denied.
I have 2 friends that have immigrated to Australia 3 years ago, and were in Canada to visit this summer. They were surprised that I knew more about their politics than they did. So in theory it is a great idea, in practice it just doesn't work, cause they both could care less who is in power.

Australia is harder to immigrate to than Canada, yet don't be fooled by the points and selection system. For a long time being a hair dresser qualified for immigration.

[taylor192]

Lowered income tax actually hampers stimulus efforts and most of the economic experts say that we would be better off increasing income tax for the top tax brackets.
I love Ron Paul's backing of a flat tax. For years the income tax burden has been shifted to the middle class cause the rich can afford investments that are tax preferred, and accountants/lawyers to find all the loopholes.

[TheNewGirl]

No we don't. If your vote isn't educated, it is best spoiled or not cast.

The best example I have of this was a city council riding in Ottawa. The incumbent won time after time, although he never showed for city council meetings and didn't do anything for his riding. Why did he win? People ignorantly vote for the incumbent when they don't know any better and things seem fine.


Cause with a birth rate < 2 among established Canadians we really need a declining population and deflation to set in. :thumbsup:

You'll be happy to know Australia is a high immigration country like Canada, and that immigration is all that's keeping our population growth positive.

If your vote is uneducated you should still go in and spoil a vote. Demographics of voters are VERY Important to politicians and define the platforms they run on and the issues they pander to.

If you as a young person don't vote. Politicians go 'Young people don't vote' and they'll never ever ever ever ever address issues that are important to you and your peers.

Also yes, we in Canada DESPERATELY need immigration other wise those of us under 50 will be crushed under the weight of paying for our baby boomer parents retirement.

[JD¹³]

I have 2 friends that have immigrated to Australia 3 years ago, and were in Canada to visit this summer. They were surprised that I knew more about their politics than they did. So in theory it is a great idea, in practice it just doesn't work, cause they both could care less who is in power.
They're not native Aussies though, so they still have the Canadian mindset towards politics

Australia is harder to immigrate to than Canada, yet don't be fooled by the points and selection system. For a long time being a hair dresser qualified for immigration.
At least they're letting people in with a profession that's not "Tamil Tiger" :rolleyes:

[Meowjin]

i like how taylor uses a sample of 1 (or in his case 2).

[Culture_Vulture]

The theory behind the Australian policy is that if you are required by law to vote you will take at least take the time to learn the differences between parties and vote accordingly. That has been the case with all my Australian friends and their families. They, unlike a LOT of Canadians, care about their country and the governing of it.

Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)
While you're making more sense now, I still disagree with your argument.

The logic behind making everybody vote and giving everybody more reason to "care about their country" goes beyond the surface.
What it does, from the most realist perspective is it allows for a more efficient circulation of election campaigns and political propaganda.


If your vote is uneducated you should still go in and spoil a vote. Demographics of voters are VERY Important to politicians and define the platforms they run on and the issues they pander to.

If you as a young person don't vote. Politicians go 'Young people don't vote' and they'll never ever ever ever ever address issues that are important to you and your peers.


For example, who do you think is benefiting from the increased knowledge of voting demographics?
On the surface of it all, of course the voters. But do you honestly believe that the vote of an uneducated (or otherwise ignorant) person will really make things better?

[taylor192]

i like how taylor uses a sample of 1 (or in his case 2).
I prefer real world examples. JD13's examples could be just as skewed, cause my Canadian friends and family are quite educated on Canadian politics which applying his reasoning would indicate most of Canadians are politically aware - meanwhile a majority of RS members couldn't even name their MLA.

Or you can just nit-pick without offering any opinion on topic at all. :thumbsup:

[Meowjin]

I did offer an opinion. I said I'd support any party that had a 100 dollar cover for BC residents.

[taylor192]

For example, who do you think is benefiting from the increased knowledge of voting demographics?
On the surface of it all, of course the voters. But do you honestly believe that the vote of an uneducated (or otherwise ignorant) person will really make things better?
You missed her point.

If politicians know young voters at least make it to the polls, they will start to campaign to win their votes. Look at the majority of campaigning, it is directed towards types of people who will vote, and usually skips issues affecting young people cause they know campaigning for these issues won't benefit them at the ballot box.

[JD¹³]

The logic behind making everybody vote and giving everybody more reason to "care about their country" goes beyond the surface. What it does, from the most realist perspective is it allows for a more efficient circulation of election campaigns and political propaganda.
Hold on a sec brb.....








http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/tinfoilhat-33779.jpg

K I'm good, you were saying?

[Culture_Vulture]

You missed her point.

If politicians know young voters at least make it to the polls, they will start to campaign to win their votes. Look at the majority of campaigning, it is directed towards types of people who will vote, and usually skips issues affecting young people cause they know campaigning for these issues won't benefit them at the ballot box.
One can argue, at the same time that, if youngsters don't care enough (for whatever reason is not important) to vote, not much good will be done if you just make them vote under the predisposition that compulsory voting will increase awareness.

The idea of making somebody show up to vote, regardless of reasoning, just doesn't click for me.

[TheNewGirl]

For example, who do you think is benefiting from the increased knowledge of voting demographics?
On the surface of it all, of course the voters. But do you honestly believe that the vote of an uneducated (or otherwise ignorant) person will really make things better?

Yes.

They know that 18-30 year olds don't vote and so very little of their attention is aimed towards trying to garner those votes. Nor is it aimed at pleasing that particular demographic when their in office. Who cares, there won't be any reprocussion.

Instead they look at people in the 50 + age group who have the most stable voting population and look at business & retirement related concerns. This is part of the reason our country and particularly our province has shifted right over the last 20 years. Even our centerist parties are increasingly right leaning. Because the left leaning folks outside of the very well orginized unions can't be bothered so the politicians don't bother with them.

If you want the politicians to start looking at issues that matter to you, you have to tell them that you're willing to get off your ass and walk down to a voting station. It really isn't asking a lot.

As I said I always suggest people who aren't sure or don't feel informed spoil their votes but make sure your ass gets counted cause that information of who do vote is readily available to the political parties and readily utilized by them.

For the record, I don't support manditory voting. But I do think poorly of people who can't be bothered to vote and then bitch about the state of their country.

[TheNewGirl]

You missed her point.

If politicians know young voters at least make it to the polls, they will start to campaign to win their votes. Look at the majority of campaigning, it is directed towards types of people who will vote, and usually skips issues affecting young people cause they know campaigning for these issues won't benefit them at the ballot box.


This is exactly how it works. I was a card carrying member of a federal political party for years and I heard people talk about this all the friggen time.

[Tapioca]

immigration isn't really a problem, it's just the immigrants tendency to form ethnic enclaves

People of all stripes tend to go where they are surrounded people that are like themselves. What do you have to say about Kits or Point Grey?


Yes Australia is a pro-immigration country but they don't just let anyone in. They have a points system and are very selective. Don't speak English? Don't have a degree or sponsoring employer? Don't pass the national knowledge test after having permanent residency for a minimum of 2 years? You're probably going to be denied. One things for damn sure, the Navy turns away ALL the boats full of freeloaders that Canada so generously let in to suck away money and resources from Canadians themselves. Pathetic.

We have a point system too for skilled immigrants. Guess what? These engineers, doctors, etc. are underemployed and driving cabs, working as janitors, etc. We get them here, but they're doing the jobs that Canadians don't want to do because no one will hire them.

Australia's case is different and is somewhat dubious. They have an off-shore possession (Christmas Island) that allows them to process refugees. We don't have that luxury here in Canada and we are obligated under international law to give due process to each refugee claimant. You might not like it, but that's the legal advice that the government is operating under.


Also yes, we in Canada DESPERATELY need immigration other wise those of us under 50 will be crushed under the weight of paying for our baby boomer parents retirement.

There is one segment of the population that is experiencing a high birth rate and that is Canada's Aboriginal population.

[taylor192]

There is one segment of the population that is experiencing a high birth rate and that is Canada's Aboriginal population.
Plus new immigrants have a 50% higher birth rate than established Canadians.

[johny]

immigration isn't really a problem, it's just the immigrants tendency to form ethnic enclaves

last month an illegal boat full of terrorists was allowed to enter Canadian waters, dock, and claim refugee status. I'll call that an immigration problem.

[johny]

This is how the liberals are going to win next election. Prior to elections they are going to say that the success of the HST on BC's economy has allowed the government to raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour.

people making min wage are too young to vote.... and if you're still making min wage by 18, you're too dumb to vote anyways.

[Lomac]

last month an illegal boat full of terrorists was allowed to enter Canadian waters, dock, and claim refugee status. I'll call that an immigration problem.

Do you know how many boats, vans, home-made rafts, etc. come into Canada every month with people claiming refugee status? The only reason why this one made such big news was because there was an allegation of a possibility that there may be Tamil Tigers onboard. I haven't heard any proof that this was indeed the case.

We're obligated by International Law to accept refugees once they're on either our soil or Canadian seas. How each country processes those refugees is up to them, however. As was mentioned earlier, Australia has Christmas Island. We don't have anything similar, though I'm sure we can take one of the Queen Charlotte Islands and turn it into our own version.

But like it or not, Canada desperately needs immigrants. Whether they arrived through all the legal channels or by claiming refugee status after
floating in a hot air balloon across the Atlantic is a moot point to this fact.

people making min wage are too young to vote.... and if you're still making min wage by 18, you're too dumb to vote anyways.

I put myself through University while making nearly minimum wage at a part time job. Guess I shouldn't have voted then.

[carisear]

JOHNY IS BACK! YAY!

[m!chael]

I put myself through University while making nearly minimum wage at a part time job. Guess I shouldn't have voted then.

You definitely shouldn't have. It takes little effort to find a job paying at least 5 dollars more than minimum wage. Either you weren't very bright, which is a possibility because it's not that hard to get into university, or you didn't put any effort into finding an adequate job. The latter would reflect very poorly on you since all university students know that any extra dollar matters when it comes to tuition, books, and beer. I really hope you put more effort into researching political parties than you did into finding a job.

[m!chael]

:troll:

[darkfroggy]

You definitely shouldn't have. It takes little effort to find a job paying at least 5 dollars more than minimum wage. Either you weren't very bright, which is a possibility because it's not that hard to get into university, or you didn't put any effort into finding an adequate job. The latter would reflect very poorly on you since all university students know that any extra dollar matters when it comes to tuition, books, and beer. I really hope you put more effort into researching political parties than you did into finding a job.

It would help if you would tell us where these plentiful jobs exist.

[Sid Vicious]

You might as well not have immigration in a free country. Or only allow Canadians to immigrate to Canada, LOL.

What does this have to do with anything? that makes absolutely no sense and is completely irrelevant to what i said.

[goo3]

immigration isn't really a problem, it's just the immigrants tendency to form ethnic enclaves

What are you gonna do? Round them up like dogs and keep them in a cage? This ain't China.

It's like forbidding them to speak their native language or "only if immigrants weren't so [fill in the blank]." They're people from a different culture, not inferior monkeys from the jungle. They're not here to kiss your feet, at least not the ones you want to let into the country.

If you can't take enclaves or whatever else that bothers ppl about immigration, then you might as well not have it. That's part of the deal. You take the good and the bad.

[carisear]

so i see there's a new VLS+ ... perfect time to put in a new board for politics. even though it'll only get used for 1 month every 4 years or something :)

[taylor192]

so i see there's a new VLS+ ... perfect time to put in a new board for politics. even though it'll only get used for 1 month every 4 years or something :)

With the HST vote looming and the census, gun registry battle ongoing, I think it would get used a bit