[tiger_handheld]

any one here work for one?

[endless402]

what do u want to know

[tiger_handheld]

^ do u work for one?

> Would firms consider giving part time hours in the summer ? say 20hrs per week?

[endless402]

nope, no part time, unless u got special connections to one of the partners, but then you wouldnt be asking :P

[suzuka84]

i bet half this forum consists of CAs - all asians with science backgrounds now enrolled in the DAP program

[tiger_handheld]

^ LOL!

> i hate people who go into business for the $ - when you speak to them, you can totally tell they have no passion.

@Endless - thanks for the info. do you currently work at a ca firm?

[willystyle]

^ Kinda hard to find passion in crunching numbers all day, dun u think? lol

[UnDeadMage]

lol crunching numbers for money sounds good to me

[Tapioca]

tiger_handheld: Your best bet for advice is to check out RFD. 60%+ of the users are Asian, they live in the GTA, and are either working/or want to work for the Big 4. I'm sure there's an archive of stuff on there.

[Wetordry]

i bet half this forum consists of CAs - all asians with science backgrounds now enrolled in the DAP program

Sounds plausible!

if not CA's then its CGA, CMA

[tiger_handheld]

^ Kinda hard to find passion in crunching numbers all day, dun u think? lol

well if you have no passion for business , then its hard to find ways to improve your numbers. just my opinion.


tiger_handheld: Your best bet for advice is to check out RFD. 60%+ of the users are Asian, they live in the GTA, and are either working/or want to work for the Big 4. I'm sure there's an archive of stuff on there.

GTA is totally different from GVRD. I wanted some input from people working in GVRD - hence the reason for posting here. thanks for the idea though.

[Wetordry]

CA firms (especially the big 4) would definately not hire PT employees.

Why? training costs. It takes a long time to train up a new employee to work under their current processes and practices. New employees hired in usually have no clue what their day to day activities are until they actually step into their first audit. This aint no 2 week training at McDonalds.

The firm's goal is to hire some young jack, make sure they are locked within the system, so they can pay them at low wages and work them like a dog as a trade off for a CA designation.

The only way you can get in through PT is through special circumstances as mentioned above.

[tiger_handheld]

^ i was thinking they would be glad to offer pt hours in the summer months. most small firms do 4/35 work weeks.

also wanted to see if firms will train for busy season , and give months off during the summer to finish off school(no - pay) and hire back in Sept.

[q0192837465]

i bet half this forum consists of CAs - all asians with science backgrounds now enrolled in the DAP program

Lol, I'm one of them, hoping to get a CA. But seriously, what else can u do with a science other than try to be doctors? For those who can't make it, a science degree seems to be no different than a general arts degree. At least it is to me.

sigh, I'm holding my breath for an offer for next year. I havent got rejected yet, so that's a good sign right?

fingers crossed.

[Tapioca]

Lol, I'm one of them, hoping to get a CA. But seriously, what else can u do with a science other than try to be doctors? For those who can't make it, a science degree seems to be no different than a general arts degree. At least it is to me.

Pharmacy - 80K straight out of school.
Engineering - If you're good (i.e. not an introvert) and a co-op grad, easily 50K+ out of school.
CA - Work like dogs for 2-3 years, then perhaps become a manager in your 4th. I have several friends who work for KPMG and they're doing pretty well now after a few years in. One fellow went to work for their consulting arm in California and is making 6 figures and he's 30-31. I guess this is what lures people in.

[Vinny G]

i bet half this forum consists of CAs - all asians with science backgrounds now enrolled in the DAP program

LOL I wouldn't doubt it.

When did accounting suddenly become such a desirable/prestigious career path that almost every single student in the business faculties want to get into it?

[willystyle]

^ cause it's a stable career, with great income potential, and it's easier to find jobs. Every medium to large enterprises needs accountants, so the demands are always there.

[UnDeadMage]

not to mention it is recession proof

[Vinny G]

It's not recession proof. I know for a fact that the big 4 let go of many people and cut back on hiring during 08/09.

[!Nhan]

There isn't really such thing as a "stable career" anymore

[tiger_handheld]

accountants and lawyers are the first to get hired and last to get let go.

i think its pretty recession proof - in industry - not public practice..

[f00tzilla]

Having a CA designation enables you to have a lot of job opportunities... it is a stable career with a lot of room for growth...you may hate getting the CA designation but once you get it you are very employable

[riccof]

I'm pretty sure that the Big 4 don't hire PT employees as what WETORDRY mentioned seemed pretty bang on. But I've heard of people like interning at the smaller CA firms.

My sisters is currently a junior articling at Ernst and Young in pursuit of her CA designation. Are you looking for a PT job because you eventually want to be a CA or just want to work there?? Because alot of people, my sister included, didn't work at a CA firm before getting hired at E.Y. and she also got an offer from Price Waterhouse Cooper. She was working as a junior financial analyst for lululemon prior to E.Y.

Also if you do eventually get on then yeah again wetordry is 100% right. My sister has been working crazy hours for the last few months (8AM-10PMish), while completing her CASB classes/exams in the mean time, all while getting paid by salary so hourly it would compare to shit.

But yeah its all about the end game, which is ultimately a big salary and that's what a lot of people in the CA industry are driven by, especially people who stay with their firms once receiving their designation as opposed to going to a in house finance department of another company where you might not get paid as much but might enjoy your job a lot more. That's why my sister is going back to lululemon as a senior financial analyst once she has her designation. Less pay but alot higher job satisfaction .

[Vinny G]

But yeah its all about the end game, which is ultimately a big salary and that's what a lot of people in the CA industry are driven by,

Call me cynical but I find that when people talk to me about their "passion" for accounting or how they love the work because it's challenging or whatever... it's just a load of shit. People go for their CAs to get rich and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Worse are the fakes at the SFU/UBC accounting clubs; all pretentious and gung-ho to volunteer and attend every single event talking about how much they love accounting... funnily enough these are the exact type of people who DON'T get hired by CA firms, lol.

Maybe I've just seen too many of my friends/past classmates have their CA dreams crushed, haha. I feel bad for some of my friends with sub-3.0 GPAs and/or going to colleges/BCIT still hoping they can become a CA and still trying to attend CA recruits when there's *almost* next to no chance for them.

[dhari]

If I were to go for the CA designation I wouldn't want to work for the big 4.
I have friends who work 80hrs a week and are on salary so basically they are getting paid for half the work.
Try out some medium sized firms. You will be able to work more closely with the managers and learn more possibly.

[Tapioca]

If I were to go for the CA designation I wouldn't want to work for the big 4.
I have friends who work 80hrs a week and are on salary so basically they are getting paid for half the work.
Try out some medium sized firms. You will be able to work more closely with the managers and learn more possibly.

Yes, that is a possible route if all you want to be is a number-cruncher. As I mentioned, I have a friend who put in his dues, impressed his managers and then was offered something else within the firm and is now rolling in the dough and has travelled the world. You can't get these opportunities if you stay with a small to medium-sized firm.

The CRA is also a possible option if you are the type that gets worn down by long hours.

[!Nhan]

Maybe I've just seen too many of my friends/past classmates have their CA dreams crushed, haha. I feel bad for some of my friends with sub-3.0 GPAs and/or going to colleges/BCIT still hoping they can become a CA and still trying to attend CA recruits when there's *almost* next to no chance for them.

There are tonnes of CA's who come out of BCIT

[Wetordry]

If you want to make the big bucks in accounting, you have to be a good leader and manager. Leadership skills will come as you get promoted & have direct reports.

If you suck at communicating and are lacking social skills, the CA designation will only take you to the SFA level (in industry). I've worked with a lot of CA's who are just booksmart, cant communicate and not at all streetsmart.

[tiger_handheld]

^ wouldn't you say to become "streetsmart" you need passion? Any accounting major can crunch numbers - but you need to understand the business, its industry, competitive pressures and the economic outlook to make any sort of decent decision.

If the current ratio is >1 but the industry is moving towards digital and you are stuck in analog. and you tell your bosses that the company is doing well and its gonna crush the competition- what are the bosses gonna think of you?



I was looking for pt cuz im still not done school yet. but i have changed my plans so i'm not looking for part time anymore. also, it would not make sense for them to hire someone pt during busy season.

*edit: this is just my opinion. you are welcome to disagree :)

[Vinny G]

Edit: will post when I get home.

[Vinny G]

There are tonnes of CA's who come out of BCIT

I'm not sure what you consider "tonnes" but the fact of the matter is most hires are from SFU/UBC. Each firm does, what, 30 maybe 40 offers per season? Probably 10% come from BCIT.
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[!Nhan]

I'm not sure what you consider "tonnes" but the fact of the matter is most hires are from SFU/UBC. Each firm does, what, 30 maybe 40 offers per season? Probably 10% come from BCIT.
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Maybe tonnes isn't the right word, but from what you said you made it seem like that BCIT is a horrible school to go to if you wanted to be a CA

[riccof]

^^ I'm sure that a majority of people who get hired on by CA firms are from UBC/SFU but you don't necessarily need to be.

My sister graduated from Capilano College with a BBA and advanced diploma in Finance. Sure graduating from UBC/SFU might be helpful but it all also depends on the person, not just the school you attend.

[josayeee]

I've worked for a CA firm for 3 years. Right now the job market is really shitty if you're fresh from school and have no experience. Immigration Canada even took accounting off the list of jobs needed in Canada. The CA's marketed their designation to the point where UBC/SFU grads started to believe CA was the only way of being an accountant. The CGAs even spent a shit load on marketing their designation. Their goal was to replace the aging population of accountants.

Now I believe they met their mark to the point where there are loads of accounting grads trying to find jobs. The economic downturn didn't help either. I've heard stories of grads promised a Big 4 firm job in September only to have it taken away. Another national firm had their employees take unpaid leave for 2 months in order to avoid lay-offs. So ya just letting you know it's rough out there at the moment. Hopefully, by the time you're done school things will have recovered.

[endless402]

dont be an accountant :)

[q0192837465]

I've worked for a CA firm for 3 years. Right now the job market is really shitty if you're fresh from school and have no experience. Immigration Canada even took accounting off the list of jobs needed in Canada. The CA's marketed their designation to the point where UBC/SFU grads started to believe CA was the only way of being an accountant. The CGAs even spent a shit load on marketing their designation. Their goal was to replace the aging population of accountants.

Now I believe they met their mark to the point where there are loads of accounting grads trying to find jobs. The economic downturn didn't help either. I've heard stories of grads promised a Big 4 firm job in September only to have it taken away. Another national firm had their employees take unpaid leave for 2 months in order to avoid lay-offs. So ya just letting you know it's rough out there at the moment. Hopefully, by the time you're done school things will have recovered.

The sad part is that those of us who graduated this year & last year can't really "wait" until things get better. By then there will be more "fresh" grads and we become "mature", which greatly diminsh our chance of getting hired. All I gotta say is FML.

[Vinny G]

I always wondered when the profession would start getting saturated. I had no idea how there were even that many accounting jobs available or how having ~70% of business grads being in accounting was even sustainable.

[adrnlnrush00]

If you want to make the big bucks in accounting, you have to be a good leader and manager. Leadership skills will come as you get promoted & have direct reports.

If you suck at communicating and are lacking social skills, the CA designation will only take you to the SFA level (in industry). I've worked with a lot of CA's who are just booksmart, cant communicate and not at all streetsmart.

Well said! Being in public practice accounting you can't simply be book smart. If all you are is book smart then you'll never progress past the "Senior Manager" role - arguably, you might not even get past the "Manager" role.

Anything past the manager role will require significant proportions of your day communicating with clients and other external entities. If you can't communicate at a professional level you won't make it to partner. After all, partnership is where all the money and glory is at. <<< That's strictly referring to public practice only. There are many jobs with great money and glory outside of public practice accounting.

To all students, you must work on your public speaking skills. You must work on your persuasive writing skills. If you leave university without having mastered the art of persuasive writing and speaking then you're leaving yourself in a very disadvantaged position vis-a-vis your fellow peers.


Jimmy

[dim_sum]

I'm not sure what you consider "tonnes" but the fact of the matter is most hires are from SFU/UBC. Each firm does, what, 30 maybe 40 offers per season? Probably 10% come from BCIT.
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ever think about how many grads they have per year? UBC has their commerce program AND the DAPP program.

the bottom line is, your grades matter but once you make their cut of usually 3.0, its all up to your "backpage" and how you do on your interviews.

[Vinny G]

ever think about how many grads they have per year? UBC has their commerce program AND the DAPP program.

the bottom line is, your grades matter but once you make their cut of usually 3.0, its all up to your "backpage" and how you do on your interviews.

I have heard from people working at the big 4 that they have a preference for UBC and SFU commerce/business students. Heck, even though they support the DAP program, they still prefer to hire commerce grads. I have found that most people who did the DAP program usually end up in mid-sized firms. Obviously if you're an exceptional person or impress them during networking events, it makes no difference where you go. But I bet that the majority of your average CA (i.e. high grades and so-so social skills) are comprised of UBC and SFU students.

[dim_sum]

I'm not sure what you consider "tonnes" but the fact of the matter is most hires are from SFU/UBC. Each firm does, what, 30 maybe 40 offers per season? Probably 10% come from BCIT.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

ever think about how many grads they have per year? UBC has their commerce program AND the DAPP program.

the bottom line is, your grades matter but once you make their cut of usually 3.0, its all up to your "backpage" and how you do on your interviews.

[!Nhan]

ever think about how many grads they have per year? UBC has their commerce program AND the DAPP program.

the bottom line is, your grades matter but once you make their cut of usually 3.0, its all up to your "backpage" and how you do on your interviews.

Theres only about 60 or so students who come out of BCIT with their bachelors in accounting as well

[UnDeadMage]

Theres only about 60 or so students who come out of BCIT with their bachelors in accounting as well

like straight from fin man onto the bachelors? or is that an average every year of people who graduate with a bachelors in accounting?

[!Nhan]

like straight from fin man onto the bachelors? or is that an average every year of people who graduate with a bachelors in accounting?

That's how many students they accept. There's a day set and a night set for fulltime btech
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[waddy41]

but there's also part-time btech as well

i think the number is much higher than 60
there's over 200 that grad from finman, then i'm sure over 1/2 will do their bba or btech

[soymilk]

but there's also part-time btech as well

i think the number is much higher than 60
there's over 200 that grad from finman, then i'm sure over 1/2 will do their bba or btech

Only day a night sets, about 30 each for Btech

[d1]

Just curious, but does anyone know how much an entry level position in PwC pays?

[soymilk]

Like a CA student? 35-40k, 40 if they like you

[adrnlnrush00]

Just curious, but does anyone know how much an entry level position in PwC pays?

I think the going rate now is $38K-40K to start. A couple of years ago, the going rate was $36K.

Chalk it up to inflation.


Jimmy

[mr85]

Just curious, but does anyone know how much an entry level position in PwC pays?

45k after university graduation. Then you go into auditing and CA school for ur designation :D

[waddy41]

PwC = $30K to start and my friend hasn't gotten a raise in 2 years
She works in tax

Another friend who is starting her audit at PwC is getting $32K or $35K
She's been there for 2 years and just transferred into the audit program

mr85 I don't know where you're getting your numbers from
PwC has been slowing down and laying off people, only to rehire fresh grads (slaves) at a lower salary

[d1]

$30k? really? Why does everyone go into accounting then?

[tiger_handheld]

45k after university graduation. Then you go into auditing and CA school for ur designation :D


which firm offers you 45?

the most i've heard is 35-38 or about $20/hr

[TRDood]

Everywhere is competitive, 36-38k to start. Firms usually pay for CASB fees.

I'd say the probability of landing a CA job is not very high, you need great networking skills. That means attending to every single networking event. They evaluate you right there, and start picking even though it's only supposed to be an "info session".

I am not in the industry, but I have friends in the industry and it's a mix bag of success/failures.

Recession proof? kind of, relative to the financial sector.

[mandogg]

I've been in a Big 4 for just over 3 years. Recession proof - hardly. No profession is. Whether it be through increased competition for industry jobs, or shittier salaries in public practice, everyone feels the highs and lows of the economy. Average starting salary in Big 4 is 37-39k. Tax is a different beast. You don't need to be a CA to be in tax, and not all entry level positions in tax even set you up to become a CA. More and more people are taking the 'tax CA' route, however, in general, pass rates for the UFE are lower from this stream. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about 'slave labour', and being 'underpaid'..university grads often think that they're worth 50k+ straight out of school, but what the firms pay really is around market value for a fresh business grad. Pay your dues, and you'll get your payday.

As for replacing staff with 'fresh grads at a lower salary', that does not/cannot happen in the profession. It is a very specialized profession that takes time to become better at. New grads can crunch numbers, but there is so much more to the job than just that. Judgement is what clients pay you for, and that takes time to develop.

[tiger_handheld]

^ wow someone who can actually say that accounting is not just about number crunching!!

[mr85]

which firm offers you 45?

the most i've heard is 35-38 or about $20/hr

pwc, my sis works there 2nd year. 1st year she was co-op started with 30k and with second year she got a raise to 45k

[Vinny G]

$30k? really? Why does everyone go into accounting then?

It's about what you get after grinding it out.

And like I said earlier, accounting is not recession proof. I'm not sure why anyone would claim it is.

[TomBox_N]

Considering that those casb modules are quite expensive the institute charges levy for each student plus the registration fees and what not, that should tack on a few grand on to the "salary"
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[Tapioca]

$30k? really? Why does everyone go into accounting then?

It's a perfectly respectable profession for the typical Asian kid who grew up in East Vancouver. It requires hard work, but it's nothing streneous like a job in health care. Salaries are perfectly decent (once you have a few years of experience under your belt), and prospects for mates are as well. :)

[tiger_handheld]

does anyone here have experience at the Big 4? KPMG in particular?

[iPee]

^ i have few friends who just started what did you want to know

[h0pz]

i work at a midsized and i started at 40k

[The_AK]

What is the typical path to becoming a CA? I heard that some firms prefer Arts students over Business students because they can pay them a much lower salary since they would be learning the same material and receiving the same designation. Can someone cofirm this?

[soymilk]

Accounting Degree -> CA training office -> CASB -> UFE

Arts students usually have to complete UBC DAP to completed the required creidts before they're even considered.