[sonick]

PART 1: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/31678-massive-engines-bmw-m10-turbocharger-video.htm

PART 2: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/31679-massive-engines-bmw-turbo-power-video.htm

This is crazy. In the 70's BMW built their F1 engines out of passenger car engine blocks that were at least 100k kilometers used, then strapped in giant turbos to get 900+ horsepower per litre...

Amazing how much boost these blocks handled.

[donjalapeno]

thats so sick....good watch

[maxx]

small wonder all BMWs are solid

[TL_99]

ah ic, so there is hope for my honda fit. LOL

[spyker]

The heat cycling of everyday driving from the production car engines made the engine blocks very strong.

F1 turbo era,even today,it's still considered the pinnacle of F1 technology.

[KiDEclipse]

Hahah Thats Rimmer from in Red Dwarf

[Jackygor]

So how did they get rid of the turbo lag?

[k3lv]

thanks for the link, that was very enjoyable to watch

[JoshuaWong]

Here are list of other turbo engines from the monstor turbo era.

* Alfa Romeo V8 1.5 L Turbo, V8 3.0 L, Flat-12 3.0 L and V12 3.0 L
* BMW M12 inline-4 1.5 L Turbo
* BRM H16 3.0 L and V12 3.0 L
* Coventry Climax V8 3.0 L (modified FPE engine; one race in the Shannon F1 car)
* Ferrari V6 1.5 L Turbo, V12 3.0 L and Flat-12 3.0 L
* Ford V6 1.5 L Turbo and V8 3.0 L (derived from the 4.2 L Indy Car engine)
* Ford Cosworth DFV V8 3.0 L and DFY V8 3.0 L
* Hart inline-4 1.5 L Turbo
* Honda V12 3.0 L, V8 3.0 L air-cooled and V6 1.5 L Turbo
* Maserati V12 3.0 L
* Matra V12 3.0 L
* Motori Moderni V6 1.5 Turbo
* Repco V8 3.0 L
* Renault Gordini V8 (never raced) 3.0 L and Gordini V6 1.5 L Turbo
* Serenissima V8 3.0 L
* TAG-Porsche V6 1.5 L Turbo
* Tecno Flat-12 3.0 L
* Weslake V12 3.0 L
* Zakspeed inline-4 1.5 L Turbo

The power range was between 390 hp (290 kW) to 500 hp (370 kW), turbos 500 hp (370 kW) to 900 hp (670 kW) in race, in qualifying up to 1,500 hp (1,120 kW).

[Y2K_o__o]

old engine blocks can take HUGE power because at that time engineers didn't know much about cyclic loading / fatigue so they made it with a huge safety factor

nowadays all engine block are optimized to their limits ( minimize material while producing the same power ), there aren't much room for us to turbo it anymore

[Leopold Stotch]

does anyone know why they'd choose to use such small displacements with those turbos?

[JoshuaWong]

I remember there used to be an interview with those turbo era driver a while ago and they said they could break traction in the rear wheels going 150mph+ in 5th gear down the straights if they put their down suddenly. Such is the power...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2559044491_d8ba2be4eb_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2559044319_9f6d68437e_o.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lijKScN_lC8

[1BADMR2]

.

[mpr]

Insane!!

:rofl:

honda guys out there. get a 100K mile b18 block in an open junk yard and piss all over it. slap a turbo. 1000+ hp!!

[sonick]

Pee > vtak

[spyker]

Insane!!

:rofl:

honda guys out there. get a 100K mile b18 block in an open junk yard and piss all over it. slap a turbo. 1000+ hp!!
This only applies to cast iron blocks,not aluminum blocks.

[spyker]

does anyone know why they'd choose to use such small displacements with those turbos?

Smaller displacement engines meant the teams could take advantage of the rules.Lighter car with small engine making big power = winning combination.

[sonick]

does anyone know why they'd choose to use such small displacements with those turbos?

Videos said F1 regulations back then limited turbocharged engines to 1.5l, and naturally aspirated engines to 3.0l.

[Phil@rise]

does anyone know why they'd choose to use such small displacements with those turbos?

Because the rules stipulated maximum of 1.5 liters if force fed and 3.0 liters if N/A.
I find i funny that BMW left the blocks outside to weather for a year and were rumoured to piss on em as well. Rolls Royce did the same thing for all their engines road going racing and aircraft.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

tat is crazy

[Leopold Stotch]

lol after i wrote my post, i looked at all the engines Joshuawong posted and i was like, okay there's a pattern hahah.

[Jackygor]

The F1 video is fawken insane, sparks flying in your face in excess of 100 mph ftw!!

[Redlines_Daily]

Here are list of other turbo engines from the monstor turbo era.

* Alfa Romeo V8 1.5 L Turbo, V8 3.0 L, Flat-12 3.0 L and V12 3.0 L
* BMW M12 inline-4 1.5 L Turbo
* BRM H16 3.0 L and V12 3.0 L
* Coventry Climax V8 3.0 L (modified FPE engine; one race in the Shannon F1 car)
* Ferrari V6 1.5 L Turbo, V12 3.0 L and Flat-12 3.0 L
* Ford V6 1.5 L Turbo and V8 3.0 L (derived from the 4.2 L Indy Car engine)
* Ford Cosworth DFV V8 3.0 L and DFY V8 3.0 L
* Hart inline-4 1.5 L Turbo
* Honda V12 3.0 L, V8 3.0 L air-cooled and V6 1.5 L Turbo
* Maserati V12 3.0 L
* Matra V12 3.0 L
* Motori Moderni V6 1.5 Turbo
* Repco V8 3.0 L
* Renault Gordini V8 (never raced) 3.0 L and Gordini V6 1.5 L Turbo
* Serenissima V8 3.0 L
* TAG-Porsche V6 1.5 L Turbo
* Tecno Flat-12 3.0 L
* Weslake V12 3.0 L
* Zakspeed inline-4 1.5 L Turbo

The power range was between 390 hp (290 kW) to 500 hp (370 kW), turbos 500 hp (370 kW) to 900 hp (670 kW) in race, in qualifying up to 1,500 hp (1,120 kW).

Can someone educate me a bit here..why would they make a 3.0L V12? Are there advantages to having the same displacement over more cylinders? Why not a 3.0L V8 or V6..seems to me that it would require less material and less weight. Or is there more reliability when there is less combustion per cylinder?

[Jackygor]

Can someone educate me a bit here..why would they make a 3.0L V12? Are there advantages to having the same displacement over more cylinders? Why not a 3.0L V8 or V6..seems to me that it would require less material and less weight. Or is there more reliability when there is less combustion per cylinder?

From what I remember V12 is the best engine configuration in terms of balance.

[sonick]

From what I remember V12 is the best engine configuration in terms of balance.

V12 and I6 are the only two standard engines that have perfect primary and secondary harmonic balance -- i.e., the motions withstood by the engine and the crank, as well as the high order derivatives of those motions, are balanced.

On the other hand, An I4 has the greatest harmonic imbalance, and often require balance shafts and other tricks to keep from shaking the engine to pieces.

[Berzerker]

Shmeghead.

Berz out.

[Vancouver240sx]

Hahah Thats Rimmer from in Red Dwarf

hahaaha I couldn't believe it!!!

[Great68]

As much as I love Formula 1, it pisses me off that they're going backwards in intentionally slowing the cars down.

The testing bans and engine freezes are so fucking stupid. I started watching F1 because it was all about who had the most technologically advanced car. To me it seems they're starting to become Nascar with their development rules.
When they said they were thinking of homologating engines altogether I just about shit myself.

[sonick]

I don't follow F1 much, but is it a safety reason why they are limiting cars (e.g. like the Whistler bobsled track being too fast)? Or is it a way to even up the playing field?

[Berzerker]

Yep I agree if the drivers want to go as fast as they can... fucking let them.

It would be interesting to see a F1 team build a car specifically with the intention of going as fast as possible and throw the rulebook out the window. I would love to see how fast they could actually get around a track if they weren't held back.

Berz out.

[Berzerker]

I don't follow F1 much, but is it a safety reason why they are limiting cars (e.g. like the Whistler bobsled track being too fast)? Or is it a way to even up the playing field?

It's a bit of both really. They are actually really concerned about Cost Cutting now though.

Berz out.

[Great68]

I don't follow F1 much, but is it a safety reason why they are limiting cars (e.g. like the Whistler bobsled track being too fast)? Or is it a way to even up the playing field?

Both.

They can kiss my ass with their "safety reasons" though.

Cars are 100x safer these days than they ever were before. They didn't have things like form fitted seats, HANS devices, way back when cars were making 1000+ horsepower

AND These guys are RACING drivers. They choose to do their job, they know the risks when they get into the cockpit.

I want to see an extreme racing league. No power limits, no aerodynamics limits. The fastest car and the best driver with the biggest balls wins.

[JoshuaWong]

Grand Turismo attempted to answer the question when they built the theoretical machine called the X1. Its going to featured in the game whenever its going to come out. But they say Sebastian Vettel managed 20 seconds faster than a conventional Formula machine of today in the same track.

[Death2Theft]

I agree as long as they were made in the 70's :D:thumbsup:
small wonder all BMWs are solid

[Vancouver240sx]

With the current F1 cars approaching 5g braking force and peaks of 4g in cornering I think they are getting close to the limits of what the human body can achieve. Every F1 driver is basically a triathlete these days and they need to be. I personally people put FAR too much emphasis on the engine specs and how much monster power they make. With the forces from the engine being the lowest impact and modern day e-difs, putting the power down is the easier exercises for an F1 driver.

Just think about the F-duct this year and how it is used. Watch their hands as they come onto the straight, right to the duct. They don't need to fight the car or control slides ect. Even though the engines have the highest output these days since the V12's it just isn't a concern.

A smaller engine with lower power actually seems like a good thing for racing F1 in my opinion because every mistake is exaggerated. Just my $0.02

rich

[RabidRat]

V12 and I6 are the only two standard engines that have perfect primary and secondary harmonic balance -- i.e., the motions withstood by the engine and the crank, as well as the high order derivatives of those motions, are balanced.

On the other hand, An I4 has the greatest harmonic imbalance, and often require balance shafts and other tricks to keep from shaking the engine to pieces.

lmao that would explain why my motor shakes the cabin so hard at 9000RPM =D

[Jackygor]

lmao that would explain why my motor shakes the cabin so hard at 9000RPM =D

no, thats vtec

[Phil@rise]

HP making technology is limited for a few reasons the most important of which is safety, not just for the drivers but also the spectators. Secondly not all teams have multi million dollar budgets (hard to believe) so it evens the playing field so not only the uber rich end up on the podium every race but the measly rich can too.

[Vancouver240sx]

I dont think $$ really buys you success in F1 though, look at toyota

rich

[Blinky]

Every team has massive budgets. Numbers from '08 but you get the idea...
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/09/22/toyota-has-biggest-f1-budget-4456m/
So $ is necessary, but not sufficient ;)

Power would decrease lap times, but rich is right - in terms of lap times, cars these days are as fast, if not faster, than the V10s. What has been lost in power (straight line) has been made up for in aero (cornering). Probably also helped by the return of slicks, but...

Lap record at Monza is from 2004 - Barrichello at 1:21.046
This year, Alonso's pole was at 1:21.962
Monza is THE power track... so the V10s are/were still faster.

Previous lap record at Monaco was also from 2004 - Schumacher at 1:14.439
This year, Webber poled at 1:13.826
Monaco is THE aero/mechanical grip/balls track.

Previous lap record at Catalunya was from 08 - Raikkonen in a V8, with grooved tires, at 1:21.670
Lap record at Catalunya (Spain) was broken this year at 1:19.995. In fact, the top 9 qualifiers ALL broke Raikkonen's old record.
Catalunya is an aero track that requires more power than Monaco.

None of these tracks has changed since the V10 era.

The best way to slow cars down is to reduce cornering speeds. The problem is that if this is done too severely, F1 cars could be slower than other series...

[Marco911]

Yep I agree if the drivers want to go as fast as they can... fucking let them.

It would be interesting to see a F1 team build a car specifically with the intention of going as fast as possible and throw the rulebook out the window. I would love to see how fast they could actually get around a track if they weren't held back.

Berz out.

Unfortunately, your perverse pleasure of "watching how fast they could get around a track" doesn't outweigh the increased risk to the driver's life.

[!LittleDragon]

I just haven't been watching F1 these past few years. Before the strict spending and engine limits, Ferrari was constantly winning.... and that was boring. Now that it's a more even playing field, technology is held back... which is also boring.

[PJ]

jesus m10 lol

[death_blossom]

It would be interesting to see a F1 team build a car specifically with the intention of going as fast as possible and throw the rulebook out the window. I would love to see how fast they could actually get around a track if they weren't held back. yeah, ever since hearing about those crazy 1.5L engines 10years ago, I've wanted to see them put those 1000+hp beasts into a current F1 car chassis. see what kind of monster that would produce!

[Vancouver240sx]

Very VERY well said Blinky!

rich