[Harvey Specter]

Imagine a high speed train link connecting NYC, Philly, Washington DC and Boston. Some in the US have been fighting for such a system for ages but no one wants to fund it. I would have imagined that all the billions they wasted on the stimulus which didn't create jobs they could have spent it on infrastructure like a high speed train link which we have created jobs for years to come and created infrastructure that would have benefited millions.

By ELAINE KURTENBACH, AP Business Writer Elaine Kurtenbach, Ap Business Writer – Tue Oct 26, 9:33 am ET

HANGZHOU, China –

China rolled out its fastest train yet on Tuesday and announced that the Three Gorges Dam, the world's biggest hydroelectric project, is now generating electricity at maximum capacity — engineering triumphs that signal the nation's growing ambitions as its economy booms.

The successes demonstrate how, after decades of acquiring technology from the west, Beijing has begun to push the limits of its new capabilities, setting the bar higher on mega-projects as it seeks to promote the image of a powerful, modern China. But many of these initiatives have come at great human and environmental cost, and some have questioned whether the country fosters a sufficiently innovative spirit to compete on the next level.

Still in the works: more nuclear power plants, a gargantuan project to pump river water from the fertile south to the arid north, and a $32.5 billion, 820-mile (1,300-kilometer) Beijing-to-Shanghai high-speed railway that is scheduled to open in 2012.

"We are now much faster," Railway Ministry spokesman Wang Yongping said at Tuesday's inauguration of the super-fast line from Shanghai's western suburb of Hongqiao to the resort city of Hangzhou. "Now other countries are hoping to cooperate with us."

The train will cruise at a top speed of 220 mph (350 kph), making the 125-mile (200-kilometer) trip in 45 minutes.

China already has the world's longest high-speed rail network and aims to more than double its length to 10,000 miles (16,000 kilometers) by 2020.

Chinese companies are also vying for projects overseas, including in the U.S., which leads the world in freight railway technology but has almost no high-speed rail expertise. That's a mark of how well and quickly the technology has been adopted by Chinese companies, who have traditionally only been able to compete on price in bidding for railway and other basic infrastructure projects in the developing world.

The Three Gorges Dam has been more controversial, though the government has relentlessly touted the $23 billion project as the best way to end centuries of floods along the mighty Yangtze and provide energy to fuel the country's economic boom.

The water level in the vast reservoir behind it hit its peak height of 574 feet (175 meters) at 9 a.m. on Tuesday, according to project operator, the China Three Gorges Project Corp. The previous record was 567 feet (172.8 meters), set in 2008, the year the generators began operating.

In the future, the water level will be adjusted depending on flood-control needs but kept within 100 feet (30 meters) of the maximum.

While raising the water level increases the electricity production of the dam, some geologists have warned that damming up too much water in the reservoir carries a heightened risk of landslides, earthquakes and prolonged damage to the river's ecology. As officials attempted to raise water levels in the reservoir last fall, at least one town had to evacuate dozens of residents after a hairline crack appeared on the slopes above homes.

In addition, millions have been displaced and great swaths of productive farmland sacrificed for dam and projects like it.

Company chairman Cao Guangjing called Tuesday's feat a "historical milestone." He said annual power generation will reach 84.7 billion kilowatt hours, enabling "the project to fulfill its functions of flood control, power generation, navigation and water diversion to the full."

Average economic growth rates of more than 9 percent per year over the past two decades have laid the foundation for rapid progress in a growing number of fields, including launching three manned space flights since 2003 and building a railway across the Tibetan plateau from Beijing to Lhasa. The 2008 Beijing Olympics and this year's mammoth Shanghai World Expo have demonstrated a growing managerial sophistication as well as ability to build infrastructure on an enormous scale.

But while the tremendous growth has enabled China to build big, some wonder if it can build smart — and become a source of true innovation.

Science and technology research in the country tends to be heavily topdown, laden with a stifling government bureaucracy. Many of China's best scholars and scientists depart for greener pastures abroad, while other top minds are pushed into administrative roles, leaving them little time for research.

Although China holds the patents on the technology, design and equipment used by the CRH380 train, some in the industry question the degree to which China is justified in claiming the latest technology as its own.

"Everybody knows that a lot of the core technology is European," Michael Clausecker, director general of Unife, the Association of the European Rail Industry, said in a recent interview.

And despite the obvious benefits high-speed railways bring, the replacement of slower lines with more expensive high-speed trains has prompted complaints from passengers reluctant to pay higher fares, especially on shorter routes.

___

Associated Press writer Tini Tran contributed to this report from Beijing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X562mft7lAU

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20101026/capt.6175b31495e249d88da6bb4beb8d3dcf-6175b31495e249d88da6bb4beb8d3dcf-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=2sd6vbF1drj939iUB6JWgw--

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20101026/capt.60b0f16a476b4839848840521855ee48-60b0f16a476b4839848840521855ee48-0.jpg?x=400&y=262&q=85&sig=kTVJfezhU9qwoCsjDRXNcQ--

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20101026/i/r3006375291.jpg?x=400&y=281&q=85&sig=ue43spocnsGlum8gBmzhgw--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0UL4lCrNM

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20101026/capt.ee355d9f9ddf41df8ec8f680c24f857f-ee355d9f9ddf41df8ec8f680c24f857f-0.jpg?x=400&y=245&q=85&sig=c.MQ.I8eT8aCs2n.GEHjXA--

[rslater]

Although China holds the patents on the technology, design and equipment used by the CRH380 train, some in the industry question the degree to which China is justified in claiming the latest technology as its own.

"Everybody knows that a lot of the core technology is European," Michael Clausecker, director general of Unife, the Association of the European Rail Industry, said in a recent interview.



Germans?

[nack]

^ ja mein freund :troll:

[Kamui712]

^ nein! es ist Deutsch!

[flagella]

Investing in railway system is absolutely a must.

[wouwou]

^ not gonna happen in NA because a rapid transit railway will put too many people out of work.

[PiuYi]

^ like who? i can only think of domestic airliners that would be seriously affected

on the other hand, building mega infrastructure during poor economic times like these should help create jobs + get economy moving

[RollingStone]

^ like who? i can only think of domestic airliners that would be seriously affected


Rail is a direct competitor to cars. In the mid 20th century, GM bought out and then immediately disassembled most of America's rail systems while simultaneously lobbying zealously for the construction of the world's most extensive inter/intrastate highway system. Purpose: to gain a monopoly on transportation. Result: most North Americans today are slaves to their cars and ridiculous daily commutes.

[orange7]

^ not gonna happen in NA because a rapid transit railway will put too many people out of work.



dunno about that.

wouldn't it be enforcing more domestic productions?

dunno.. i'm no econ expert.

[SkinnyPupp]

All that, and most people there still pick their noses and flick boogers in public, scratch their anus in public, and spit food and loogeys onto the floor at nice restaurants.

[Alphamale]

^ like who? i can only think of domestic airliners that would be seriously affected

on the other hand, building mega infrastructure during poor economic times like these should help create jobs + get economy moving

If you haven't heard yet, the stim package is running short.

[wouwou]

^ like who? i can only think of domestic airliners that would be seriously affected

on the other hand, building mega infrastructure during poor economic times like these should help create jobs + get economy moving

on top of my head,

truck drivers, highway maintenance, automotive, transportation companies

and all the service companies that providing service to the above.

and any small towns/crappy diners on highway routes are gutted because of the lack of traffic.

[tool001]

even if US implements high speed rail, canada wont', canada's poplulation doesn't justify cost associated with setting up such a network in canada.
canada should just open up the air routes to american companies so we dont get shafted with high air travel costs.

[PuYang]

hey, i heard from my parents that they are building another skytrain (or some kinda bullet train) somewhere in vancouver(?) that runs down to somewhere in seattle. and then eventually, will be connected to cali.

is that true? not really sure where they heard it from, but most likely from newspapers or something.

wondering if anyone else read something about this.

EDIT: i apologize if my post is considered thread jacking ;s

EDIT2: found this:
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/117764--train-between-california-and-vancouver-possible

not sure if its true though, but that would be awesome ;]

[Lomac]

^ they're just extending the amount of passenger rail trains between van and seattle afaik.

Edit: Nevermind, just saw your second edit.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Jeremy617]

high speed means an average of 110 miles per hour.

weak, thats still like a 12 hour train ride to get to LA.

[ZhangFei]

how ironic. the chinese also built the railroads in north america.

[1exotic]

how ironic. the chinese also built the railroads in north america.

YYYYYYyyyyyyoooooooooo ZhangFei.

[twitchyzero]

high speed means an average of 110 miles per hour.

weak, thats still like a 12 hour train ride to get to LA.

yeah it needs to run at 250kph+

anyways the link only says plans to portland...if it does get build it would probably take another decade for them to extend it into LA or san diego. even if it does happen..i'm sure it will costs more than airfare from bellingham to LA

[q0192837465]

All that, and most people there still pick their noses and flick boogers in public, scratch their anus in public, and spit food and loogeys onto the floor at nice restaurants.

just wait for the boomers to die and take their bad habits along with them. Those people grew up in a shit country, it's a no brainer that a shit country breeds shit people. China didnt really get their shit together until 5-10 yrs ago.

[!LittleDragon]

I took the high speed rail from Shanghai to Tainjin this spring and it hit 329kp/h. This wasn't even one of the fancy pants maglev trains, this was on wheels and it was smooth as silk.

[Great68]

The three gorges dam is not that big of a deal. Sure it's big in the fact that it spans a long distance and has a big powerhouse, but it's reservoir is only about half of our WAC bennett dam up north. We have a LOT more potential generation power.

[SpuGen]

^
This is Canada.

The Dam in China is a step in the right direction, regardless of it's size/potential. It's "cleaner" Energy, and in a few years that will really help with almost.. everything. Affordable Electricity, better living (outskirts), and maybe it'll actually help get rid of all that smog from the Newfound Industrialization.

[StylinRed]

domestic rail is the "future" for NA

that's why Warren Buffet invested in Rail and purchased BNSF railway

[orange7]

how ironic. the chinese also built the railroads in north america.

lol. zhangFei is bak.

[wouwou]

^
This is Canada.

The Dam in China is a step in the right direction, regardless of it's size/potential. It's "cleaner" Energy, and in a few years that will really help with almost.. everything. Affordable Electricity, better living (outskirts), and maybe it'll actually help get rid of all that smog from the Newfound Industrialization.

+1

been traveling a lot these days around China, and Solar power is VERY visible in the countrysides.

[Nisota Skypra]

Meanwhile in Japan they've had bullet trains since 1964...

[Hondaracer]

My electronics teacher explained the physics in detail about these high speed trains which are powered by magnets one day, pretty amazing stuff

Said they would easilly be capable of breaking the sound barrier, and can basically stop and accelerate at speeds which would basically destroy your body/bones

Also if it did break the sound barrier the shock wave produced off the train would flatten the surrounding area for a large distance on either side of the train, however it would also flatten the cars behind the wave as well lol
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[JesseBlue]

^ you should watch, how its made in discovery...

they showed trains in germany that leans when travelling in a curve...stops with the help of eddy currents...pretty cool..

[PiuYi]

how ironic. the chinese also built the railroads in north america.

ZhangFei!! how did you escape the pearly depths of perma-ban hell n make your way back onto RS??

(fail just for good measure :))

[Vale46Rossi]

ZhangFei!! how did you escape the pearly depths of perma-ban hell n make your way back onto RS??

(fail just for good measure :))

That's what I thought

ZhangFei being back is more interesting than this article!

[Wongtouski]

All that, and most people there still pick their noses and flick boogers in public, scratch their anus in public, and spit food and loogeys onto the floor at nice restaurants.

I took the Beijing - Tianjin Highspeed train last March. Train was impeccable, brand spankin new, clean, modern, even the "stewardesses" were pretty. Before that though, the train station was exactly as you described. As awesome as new tech is emerging in China, the people still need to catch up. Speaking of that......the expo was a nightmare.

[Jeremy617]

Also if it did break the sound barrier the shock wave produced off the train would flatten the surrounding area for a large distance on either side of the train, however it would also flatten the cars behind the wave as well lol
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

yeah sonic booms are not that strong, mythbusters already pretty much busted this.

Aren't maglev trains really quiet anyways? i would assume that the strength of a sonic boom somewhat depends on the amount of noise that object is creating.

[Hondaracer]

Sonic boom is generated by the force produced of breaking the sound barrier, a stream line jet is like deafening crusing near the barrier so I would assume a large train breaking the barrier would be even louder/stronger
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Hehe]

I personally don't find train as a reasonable mean of transportation in NA. We simply do not have the population density to support such a project.

If US or CA get into the high speed rail game, it would be pretty stupid and bringing very little benefit to the country. America already has an extensive network of roads, why waste them? Simply build them better and wider to accommodate the pop. growth and additional speed of modern cars (think a 8 lane highway each way with no speed limit ala auto bahn)

In a world where we are progressing more and more toward internet based life, it would actually make more sense that government starts funding for ultra high bandwidth networks. In 30 years, most business would be done without face-to-face interaction, why waste money on something that would likely become obsolete in a foreseeable future?

I would vote to whoever proposing cheap gigabit+ connection to major cities

[taylor192]

Imagine a high speed train link connecting NYC, Philly, Washington DC and Boston. Some in the US have been fighting for such a system for ages but no one wants to fund it. I would have imagined that all the billions they wasted on the stimulus which didn't create jobs they could have spent it on infrastructure like a high speed train link which we have created jobs for years to come and created infrastructure that would have benefited millions.
The money spent on the war effort could have built enough wind, solar, turbine and other alternative energy sources to make the US completely independent of non-US oil for its energy needs and put many Americans to work.

[Tapioca]

I personally don't find train as a reasonable mean of transportation in NA. We simply do not have the population density to support such a project.

In Canada we don't, but the eastern seaboard of the US does.


If US or CA get into the high speed rail game, it would be pretty stupid and bringing very little benefit to the country. America already has an extensive network of roads, why waste them? Simply build them better and wider to accommodate the pop. growth and additional speed of modern cars (think a 8 lane highway each way with no speed limit ala auto bahn)

Because the scarcity and price of oil will make high-speed rail a viable alternative.


In a world where we are progressing more and more toward internet based life, it would actually make more sense that government starts funding for ultra high bandwidth networks. In 30 years, most business would be done without face-to-face interaction, why waste money on something that would likely become obsolete in a foreseeable future?


I'm not a business person, but I'm also not naive enough to believe that teleconferencing will replace face-to-face human interaction. Have you ever sat through a teleconference before? (e.g. There is a great example from the movie Up In the Air in which someone is fired through a teleconference.) Unless teleportation or some other form of 3D technology comes online, teleconferencing technologies are just a compliment to, rather than a replacement for, human interaction.

[johny]

who needs a N.A. rail system?....

who travels from city to city? business can be done via web cam... and my tax dollars shouldn't be paying so tourists have something to ride around in. they can pay for airfares

[Hehe]

In Canada we don't, but the eastern seaboard of the US does.
It has enough population, but the population are heavily concentrated in major cities, it won't help anything in between to grow (one of the point of building train stations is to promote urban expansion). If I were to work in NYC, I would stay in Queens or Brown before I think anything further away. All the benefits of city won't get you far.

Because the scarcity and price of oil will make high-speed rail a viable alternative.
By the time oil scarcity becomes a major concern, we will have cars that runs on alternative type of energy source or so efficient that it's not really a problem anymore. And with self-driving cars being viable in a near horizon, I believe a better developed road will trump railroad any day. Think high speed train today as train in the 19th/first half of 20th century. They ultimately become a mean to move freight rather than people, this would be the case for high speed trains in 50 or 100 years from now.


I'm not a business person, but I'm also not naive enough to believe that teleconferencing will replace face-to-face human interaction. Have you ever sat through a teleconference before? (e.g. There is a great example from the movie Up In the Air in which someone is fired through a teleconference.) Unless teleportation or some other form of 3D technology comes online, teleconferencing technologies are just a compliment to, rather than a replacement for, human interaction.

Sure human interaction is important, but I think face to face meeting will be less and less important if there's a good replacement. Think if we can project full 3D holographic at 4K resolution? Why do you still want face to face meeting? In my parent's company, they source a specific industrial blade from a Japanese company and they have never met them in person, and they have done business for over 20 years. Online business is still at a very early stage IMHO, Internet as we know it could change tremendously if we have 1000 times the bandwidth

[Wongtouski]

By the time oil scarcity becomes a major concern, we will have cars that runs on alternative type of energy source or so efficient that it's not really a problem anymore. And with self-driving cars being viable in a near horizon, I believe a better developed road will trump railroad any day. Think high speed train today as train in the 19th/first half of 20th century. They ultimately become a mean to move freight rather than people, this would be the case for high speed trains in 50 or 100 years from now.

Sure human interaction is important, but I think face to face meeting will be less and less important if there's a good replacement. Think if we can project full 3D holographic at 4K resolution? Why do you still want face to face meeting? In my parent's company, they source a specific industrial blade from a Japanese company and they have never met them in person, and they have done business for over 20 years. Online business is still at a very early stage IMHO, Internet as we know it could change tremendously if we have 1000 times the bandwidth

Uh......oil is getting scarce NOW, what's our alternative energy? Electric cars is hardly a solution, and we're years and year away from "Self drive" cars dude.

I think big businesses will continue to have face to face meetings, even if your proposed "3D holographics" is developed. Nothing trumps interacting with a real person in a negotiation situation for example. You obviously don't need to see the other guy (per your parents' example), but the world isn't just about the web in the future, you still have to have tangibles behind the web itself (if that makes sense).

[FerrariEnzo]

i would be scared about it de-railing at those speeds....

[Hehe]

Uh......oil is getting scarce NOW, what's our alternative energy? Electric cars is hardly a solution, and we're years and year away from "Self drive" cars dude.

I think big businesses will continue to have face to face meetings, even if your proposed "3D holographics" is developed. Nothing trumps interacting with a real person in a negotiation situation for example. You obviously don't need to see the other guy (per your parents' example), but the world isn't just about the web in the future, you still have to have tangibles behind the web itself (if that makes sense).

I wouldn't call a bit over doubling the price from the lowest point I started to care about gas price (from about 55cents to 112 today?) oil scarce.

They are still pumping out more than the world could consume any given day.

I'm sure we won't stop having in-person relationship/meeting any time in the future, many tangible goods such as food and cloth simply can't be transported via internet. I'm just saying that with very close and suitable alternatives at fraction of the price, corporate would start to adopt.

Back to the original topic, even with the idea of future technology or not, a well developed road system still makes more sense than high rail trains.

And as for self-driving cars, I'd expect to see it within 10 years. Many corporations including google have developed their system for the car to drive by itself. It's only the time it will take for law to adapt and the tech needed to lower its price to a commercially viable point.

[Walperstyle]

China is hilarious. 10% super modern society, and 90% hidden communist industrial pollution.

I don't get why people protest the Oil Sands here in Canada when China is far worst.

Uh......oil is getting scarce NOW, what's our alternative energy? Electric cars is hardly a solution, and we're years and year away from "Self drive" cars dude.

I think big businesses will continue to have face to face meetings, even if your proposed "3D holographics" is developed. Nothing trumps interacting with a real person in a negotiation situation for example. You obviously don't need to see the other guy (per your parents' example), but the world isn't just about the web in the future, you still have to have tangibles behind the web itself (if that makes sense).

Actually Oil is not getting Scarce. There is Oil still un-tapped in Saskatchewan and Manitoba. I work in this industry and I'll be first to tell you that 500 years from now, when it is, the magical alternative solution will be sold to us by the same people that sell us oil. Thats just how the world works.

My only advice is to buy up solar pannels and wind power BEFORE there is local laws to prevent you from doing it. Cheers.

[optiblue]

GG to any one on the tracks! there's no stopping!

[dogeatcookie]

Meanwhile in Japan they've had bullet trains since 1964...

Meanwhile the majority of Japanese culture originated in China, have a nice cup of STFU and GTFO

[JesseBlue]

who needs a N.A. rail system?....

who travels from city to city? business can be done via web cam... and my tax dollars shouldn't be paying so tourists have something to ride around in. they can pay for airfares

you sir are an idiot :buttkick:...

take off your blinders... there are far more uses going from city to city (or in this case from one point to another...i won't tell you what those are and will let you find those out for yourself...

[Noizz]

Uh......oil is getting scarce NOW, what's our alternative energy?

How did you figure that out? What is your premise? A rise in gas prices at the pump does not dictate a scarcity of oil.

Abstract
Oil shortages have been predicted over the past 30 years. In fact, oil is more plentiful now in an economic sense than in 1973. The reason for such misconceptions lies mainly in reliance on analytical techniques that do not comprehend oil as an economic commodity.

http://shadow.eas.gatech.edu/~kcobb/energy/Readings/Watkins.pdf