[ynot-llat]

Dude kills 2 people with his Porsche and severely injures a third person gets 5 years.

Kid gets in a fight, knife is pulled on him a struggle ensues. He ends up taking the knife from the kid and using it against him.
Gets life sentence no parole for 10 years.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Joshua+Berner+gets+life+sentence+fatal+stabbing/3924826/story.html

[IMASA]

Not to mention that kid's mom DUI's and kills 4 yr old girl and gets 2 years.

[Gnomes]

And dont forget about Robert Latimer - the father who euthanize his severely disabled daughter who was suffering every day of her life.

[StaxBundlez]

^ u got a link to that story?

[Eatman]

^ u got a link to that story?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/latimer/

[Gnomes]

^ u got a link to that story?

or this if you want video and too lazy to read:
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101130/Latimer-Parole-101130/

[Bonjour43MA]

Our legal system is shit. Simple as that.

If someone pulled a knife on me and tried to kill me, am I supposed to stand there and let the person stab me til I'm dead? Hells no, you defend yourself anyway you can, and in this case, you try to disarm him by taking his knife away. I suppose where the guy did wrong was then using that knife against his attacker, instead of backing off to stablize the situation... We have this weird law where "force-for-force" has to be established, meaning, if I were to use a knife on my attacker, he would also have to have a knife at the same time as well, otherwise I'd be charged for using unnecessary lethal force.

It is definitely wrong to kill someone, but if this was in the US I wonder what the outcome would've been like - they're certainly more lenient on the right to defend yourself when faced with peril.

Ironic how his mom was also sentenced recently for killing 2 people with her car while driving intoxicated... instant karma these days eh? Crazy.

[Gh0stRider]

Ya fuck the system.
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[Mugen EvOlutioN]

what a pile of whoreshit

seriously which moron makes these fucked up laws


i hope they face an attacker themself, than they will realize geee maybe our justice system is a bit on the weak side


:rolleyes::bullshit:

[Gnomes]

I think out legal system needs a major overhaul. Too many outdated crap, defend rights of offender vs victim, etc

[StylinRed]

i dont agree with the sentence of this case either but to blame the justice system... god you don't know how many times i hear that i bet its like what the police feel when they hear me or you guys bitching about what they do

to compare vehicular crimes with this is even more ridiculous... especially when the govt tries to get tough on vehicular crimes you get unending threads bitching at the police and government being too strict (a la the new Drinking & Driving laws + the car reposession/speeding laws) you guys just want to bitch for bitching sake


anyway back to this case a JURY found him guilty I wonder what kind of influence they had (if any) from the case of his mother

this case will naturally be appealed and he'll more than likely get a lesser charge if at that; the judge himself (as it says in the story) found it to be a "spontaneous brawl"

[scottsman]

Went to school with Josh, crazy. From what I remember they didn't report what happened right way and actually left the guy to die when the police arrived. One has to think that if it was in self defense you would immediately tell the police what happened. If you think it was self defense then you believe his attorneys stories. If you believe otherwise then you side with the prosecution.

[.Dream.Time]

thats pretty fucked up... it wasn't his knife. it's obviously self defense
i can't believe he got 10 years for that shit..such bullshit

[JesseBlue]

tells you that we have it all wrong... be the bad guy and win!

[Qmx323]

no such thing as self-defence in canada

the justice system in canada would benefit borrowing some policies from the dudes down south

[FerrariEnzo]

so let me get this right,

lets say i hate this guy, i walk up to him with a bat, get in a fight, he takes bat and kicks the crap out of me and he goes to jail and nothing happens to me!!!

[t8v6]

And dont forget about Robert Latimer - the father who euthanize his severely disabled daughter who was suffering every day of her life.

wow, that's a difficult case :/ on one hand the father did it out of his love for the daughter but on the other hand he denied her the right to choose to live in a way...guess it could go both ways. I think there should be a law along the lines of euthanisia can only be legal if the person being "killed" is of a certain age or above and gives consent. At least the victim will be able to make an educated decision of whether their lives are worth experiencing all the pain that they are going through. Just a thought lol.
Btw, for those who specialize in law, what's the reasoning behind legalizing pulling the plug for someone who's been in a coma for a very long time? Anybody know? Kinda curious :p

[.Dream.Time]

wow, that's a difficult case :/ on one hand the father did it out of his love for the daughter but on the other hand he denied her the right to choose to live in a way...guess it could go both ways. I think there should be a law along the lines of euthanisia can only be legal if the person being "killed" is of a certain age or above and gives consent. At least the victim will be able to make an educated decision of whether their lives are worth experiencing all the pain that they are going through. Just a thought lol.
Btw, for those who specialize in law, what's the reasoning behind legalizing pulling the plug for someone who's been in a coma for a very long time? Anybody know? Kinda curious :p

how does a mentally challenged person give you their consent? if you manage to tell me I won't call you retarded

[TheKingdom2000]

wow.
10 years? for protecting himself and his buddy?
obviously there is more to the story, but at first glance it just seems like he was protecting himself and his buddy.
Unless he already had the guy disabled and then stabbed him out of revenge?

how many years is manslaughter?

[StylinRed]

how many years is manslaughter?

max for manslaughter is also Life
Minimum depends if a firearm was used or not (if it was 4 years min)
ultimately would depend on judge (min)

[SuperSlowSS]

such bullshit some of you can't even read... :p
it is LIFE SENTENCE with no parole for 10 years.

[StylinRed]

^^yea what most people dont realize is most murderers dont get out on their chance for Parole or even apply for it

cant remember the stats but its quite low

but regardless they're pissed he got sentenced in the first place and they like to pretend its better in the states

im betting they totally missed the point of the Jury as well

[Euro7r]

Everything is like fucked up in this world now.

[RiceIntegraRS]

This is why people think our Justice system is fucked up. Our Laws are basically black and white. Apparently theres no grey area our justice system goes by in a case like this. U murder someone and u get charged like a murderer, U defend someone else and urself and end up killing him, u get charged like a murderer..............

[StylinRed]

^^^ no if it was proven it was self defense he wouldn't have gotten convicted of murder the problem with this case (if all the information was provided to us in that news article :rolleyes: is the jury)

he'll appeal and he'll likely get off or get manslaughter

the problem is we dont want people copping the "self defense" plea whenever they kill someone so its harder to get

However Look at the Father and Two brothers that killed a drug user/dealer (it sounds like it was NOT self defense, based on the news) they got off scott free on the self defense plea

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/01/29/bc-brotherston-not-guilty-verdict.html

[Ferra]

this happened probably because the guy is poor and just happened to get a shitty public lawyer representing him

[jeffh]

dude stabbed another dude, TO DEATH and didnt call emergency services asap?
murder

As soon as he got the knife away, he made a choice to kill to the other guy

[Lomac]

Here's my take on the self defence one... The judge/jury involved was probably upset at Carol Berner's bare minimum sentence, so they decided to get back at her in their own way and give her son the most they were able to.

Personally, I honestly think it's a mixture of that plus some part of the story that the media hasn't really talked about yet.

[jeffh]

^ too bad part of jury selection is weeding out anyone who may know anything at all to do with that other case

the defense lawyer isnt going to let people with any sort of bias sit on the jury

[Lomac]

Doesn't mean they didn't lie about their knowledge to get in.

Either way, unless there's more to the story than the media is letting on (and provided the defence story is actually true), then the sentence was definitely too harsh.

[StylinRed]

^ too bad part of jury selection is weeding out anyone who may know anything at all to do with that other case

the defense lawyer isnt going to let people with any sort of bias sit on the jury

he was convicted in October depending on when trial started (likely months earlier) the Trial began in middle of Sept (but it was in voire dire meaning the jury wasn't sitting) however the jury was chosen already

given the length of time and how much his moms case was being talked about i find it hard to believe the Jury didn't know an inkling or at the very least learned more about it while sitting on her sons Trial

anyway u can read a far more detailed report about the events of the case here http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Joshua+Berner+found+guilty+murder+stabbing+Richmon d/3655315/story.html

stabbed the deceased in the head after having him pinned down and taken the weapon, got rid of the knife, was stopped by police but didn't tell them about the dying/dead guy laying on the ground nearby + multiple witnesses attesting to his violent/abusive nature + the deceased is a father + the possibility of his mothers case influencing the jury

[Mancini]

I think out legal system needs a major overhaul. Too many outdated crap, defend rights of offender vs victim, etc

Yes, too many outdated crap.

[.Dream.Time]

dude stabbed another dude, TO DEATH and didnt call emergency services asap?
murder

As soon as he got the knife away, he made a choice to kill to the other guy

ok so what would you do with the knife after you took it from him?

this guy is obviously out to kill you, you can't just throw the knife a few meters away and keep struggling with him, he's gonna pick it back up and stab you.

His buddy was also blacked out, not like he can just book it out of there, he's not going to leave his friend behind with some guy who just came at you with a knife.

In the heat of the moment you don't have time to think, maybe he didn't intend to kill him but you're going to need to stab him to disable him.

It's not like you can just call a time out, and tell him you don't want to play anymore after you get the knife. He's just gonna come at you until he gets the knife back

[spideyv2]

no wonder the americans laugh at our justice system

some kid sucker punches my friend while we get off the bus, knocks him out and pulls a knife on us. i take the knife from him and stab him out of adrenaline and kill him then i would have to face a life sentencing? pfffffft..basically u have to let the other guy kill u?

[monkeywrench]

Canadian justice system is full of horse shit. In a situation like that you basically have to be stabbed half way to hell if you hope to have a slight bit of justice served.
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[m!chael]

Sections 34 -37 of the criminal code of Canada deal with 'Defense of Person.'
http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.part-i.html

34. (1) Every who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if

(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension (anticipation/fear) of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm. [R.S. c.C-34, s.34.]

[StylinRed]

omg i cant believe i thanked m!chael !! ;)

[m!chael]

omg i cant believe i thanked m!chael !! ;)

You know what's even more fucked up, I just realized I know him, he's a friend of a friend :(
He was actually a really nice guy...

[TheKingdom2000]

You know what's even more fucked up, I just realized I know him, he's a friend of a friend :(
He was actually a really nice guy...

you know the guy that got stabbed and is now dead or you know the guy who stabbed and killed the guy and is now facing the life sentence?

[zulutango]

I believe that the jury, who heard all the facts and evidence from both sides, have a better chance of making an informed decision. Reading a few lines of summary from a newspaper who makes their money from sensational reporting is hardly the best way to know exactly what happened. It appears that the jury believed that self defence was not appropriate and said so with their decision. To get upset about something while not knowing the facts of the matter makes you no better than Obama, if you remember what he did in the case of the Cop and Obama's professor buddy and the reported burglary in progress.

As a point of interest..
"B.C. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Ballance imposed the sentence just before noon Friday after hearing a joint submission by the Crown and defence asking for a parole ineligibility period of 10 years.

[johny]

Sections 34 -37 of the criminal code of Canada deal with 'Defense of Person.'
http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.part-i.html


34. (1) Every who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if

(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension (anticipation/fear) of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm. [R.S. c.C-34, s.34.]



yes, section 2 states you can kill someone who attacks you with a weapon.

[hk20000]

hmmm I thought it'd be an open and shut case of self defense.

1. guy came at you with knife
2. you know at that time you are in life or death danger
3. you got knife from assailant
4. assailant continues to act hostile, having clear intention to take your life - I see that the plaintiff is saying that the knife is now not in his hands - but there are many ways to kill without a weapon at that range....
5. you stabbed the assailant on the basis of self defense.

I don't see any point where the accused (now) has been removed from danger of his life until he stabbed the original assailant....

I hope this shit don't fly in the court and the guy just come off clean man....otherwise it's some real fucked up shit.

[zulutango]

Read post # 40. The trial is over and the jury decided he was guilty.

[Gnomes]

meh, those who brandish their knives around ready to kill should also be prepared to die. Live by sword, die by sword.

[danz]

fml

[geeknerd]

at least we know that if u want to kill a guy, do it with a car and ull only get 5 years.

[StylinRed]

the problem is there's no1 corroborating their self defense story

their story is sketchy in the least, this father (the deceased) just followed them off the bus for no apparent reason and was going to kill one/both of them

not only that according to his story he had the deceased pinned to the ground and weapon out of hand already (him "punching" with the knife sounds like they wanted to say he forgot the knife was in his hands but who the hell punches in a stabbing motion?)

not only that they got rid of the murder weapon (its not to be found anywhere)

not only that the police stopped them because neighbours called about people fighting and they didnt tell the officer/s that there was a guy with a knife wound in his head in the bushes who may or may not be dead

not only that he has a history of violence and crime (i dont know what the deceased has but this fact doesnt do well for the credibility of this guy and the likeliness that he was just defending himself)


you can see why the Jury convicted him; you can see why his defense lawyer was hoping for Manslaughter instead of an acquittal (he may still get it in an appeal all im saying is you can see why the Jury voted how they did)

[Phat_R]

^^^ no if it was proven it was self defense he wouldn't have gotten convicted of murder the problem with this case (if all the information was provided to us in that news article :rolleyes: is the jury)

he'll appeal and he'll likely get off or get manslaughter

the problem is we dont want people copping the "self defense" plea whenever they kill someone so its harder to get

However Look at the Father and Two brothers that killed a drug user/dealer (it sounds like it was NOT self defense, based on the news) they got off scott free on the self defense plea

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/01/29/bc-brotherston-not-guilty-verdict.html

there's gotta be a reason he got 2nd degree and not manslaughter
leaving someone to bleed until dead is a good reason

that fucker in the Porsche should have got life though

[CanadaGoose]

meh, those who brandish their knives around ready to kill should also be prepared to die. Live by sword, die by sword.

Almost no one who carries a knife is actually mentally prepared to go beyond just flicking it open, to taking it to gravest extreme and sticking that blade into another persons windpipe and feel it punch through like it was a piece of cardboard, push it deep into someones armpit, or otherwise stab and carve at someones body like it was a slab of meat. Causing superficial knife wounds, and actually using a couple inch long razor sharp piece of steel to disable someone who is hell bent on coming at you, are two totally different animals and most people never give that any thought till it's too late.

[milkmilk101]

Our legal system is shit. Simple as that.

If someone pulled a knife on me and tried to kill me, am I supposed to stand there and let the person stab me til I'm dead? Hells no, you defend yourself anyway you can, and in this case, you try to disarm him by taking his knife away. I suppose where the guy did wrong was then using that knife against his attacker, instead of backing off to stablize the situation... We have this weird law where "force-for-force" has to be established, meaning, if I were to use a knife on my attacker, he would also have to have a knife at the same time as well, otherwise I'd be charged for using unnecessary lethal force.

It is definitely wrong to kill someone, but if this was in the US I wonder what the outcome would've been like - they're certainly more lenient on the right to defend yourself when faced with peril.

Ironic how his mom was also sentenced recently for killing 2 people with her car while driving intoxicated... instant karma these days eh? Crazy.

LIKE!!

[milkmilk101]

what a pile of whoreshit

seriously which moron makes these fucked up laws


i hope they face an attacker themself, than they will realize geee maybe our justice system is a bit on the weak side


:rolleyes::bullshit:

The same crowd who spent our money building the olympic village and bike lane in dt.