Port Mann Construction [Archive] - Page 2 - REVscene Automotive Forum

Acura604

12-03-2012, 11:47 AM

so.. it being just the first day and once the toll hits, there might be even fewer cars based on this story.

question is.. what percentage of drivers do you think will actually go through the trouble of avoiding tolls and going the long way through the shittiest bridge in town - patullo?!

Will drivers avoid the Port Mann when tolls kick in? - News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/427807--will-drivers-avoid-the-port-mann-when-tolls-kick-in)

SURREY (NEWS1130) - Today sees the first real commute on the new Port Mann Bridge since it opened to four lanes each way this weekend. The new RapidBus line from Langley is also up and running.

There are predictions alternate routes will feel the pinch when the tolls kick in. But the province fully expects drivers will eventually be won over by the time savings of the new Port Mann on Highway 1 and pay for the convenience.

News1130 spoke with several commuters at 152nd Street and 104th Avenue in Surrey today; none of them are happy with the tolls that begin next week.

"On the way to work, I'll have to use it, but on the way back, I'm going to try to dodge it. [The tolls are] ridiculous. It adds up a lot," says one driver.

"[I'll take the] Pattullo... you can't afford that. [It's at] least $150 more [per month] and if you're not getting a raise," says another.

The province expects 110,000 to 120,000 trips across the new bridge today, which isn't really any more than what then average has been.

mb_

12-03-2012, 11:58 AM

Those people who will take Patullo will probably end up paying more for gas wasted from being stuck in traffic lol
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Presto

12-03-2012, 12:02 PM

question is.. what percentage of drivers do you think will actually go through the trouble of avoiding tolls and going the long way through the shittiest bridge in town - patullo?!

Answer: the people that can't do math.

It will cost $6/day for a roundtrip commute. Let's say the Patullo route adds 15 minutes (realistically, a lot more), each way, to the average commute, vs going on the Port Mann. That's 30 min of time wasted. If you work minimum wage, that's 5 bucks of pay, right there.

Along with time, there's also increased fuel consumption with the longer trip, and because of congestion. Sprinkle in some bumper-to-bumper stress, and you've got an alternate route that has zero advantage over the tolled bridge.

inv4zn

12-03-2012, 12:12 PM

^+1.

The only "type" of people that will avoid the toll bridge are the ones who feel the need to strongly resist anything they don't like, even if it makes no sense to do so.

These people are essentially saying "Yes, I will drive longer, be stuck in more traffic, and announce to the world that 40 minutes of my time is not worth $3, but that's ok because I'm doing what I believe in!"

:seriously:

fliptuner

12-03-2012, 01:40 PM

^^^ That's great for me.

inv4zn

12-03-2012, 02:34 PM

It's terrible for me, I take the Patullo daily :okay:

murd0c

12-03-2012, 02:47 PM

I can't wait to drive home to see how traffic is!!

Presto

12-03-2012, 02:51 PM

Check it out now, with the highway cam:
B.C.Highway Cams (http://images.drivebc.ca/bchighwaycam/pub/html/www/292.html)

Damn... that's rush hour, now.

murd0c

12-03-2012, 03:08 PM

Just awesome

mb_

12-03-2012, 03:29 PM

New bridge draws praise all around | Local | News | Vancouver 24 hrs (http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2012/12/03/new-port-mann-bridge-draws-praise-all-around)

When people drove past the weathered hulk of the old Port Mann Bridge Monday morning, it’s likely few were feeling pangs of nostalgia.

The verdict is in and drivers were thrilled after their first commute over the new eight-lane bridge, while Langley bus passengers expressed relief at the debut of express service.

On Monday, 24 Hours tested the new span and it took just nine minutes to get from 200 Street to the north side of the bridge.

Langley resident Tyrel Poirier said it normally takes him 45 minutes from 200 Street to the Brunette Avenue exit.

With the new bridge it took just 13.

“I was in shock,” Poirier said. “I knew it was going to be faster but this blew my mind.”

On Twitter, people were equally effusive: “saved me 20 mins this morning. #notbad perhaps will save me a lil more once the toll kicks in,” tweeted @harzucklehead.

The average weekday volume across the Port Mann is 115,000 to 120,000 vehicles. That might change significantly once tolls kick in next week as drivers look to free options, such as the Patullo Bridge.

At the Carvolth Transit Exchange in Langley, early-morning passengers cheered as they boarded rapid bus service to Braid Street SkyTrain.

“This is awesome,” said SFU student Amanda Lemky, who usually travels 45 minutes on the 509 to Surrey SkyTrain. “Now I can sleep in a little longer.”

Raj Sandhu, a planner in Burnaby, said he will not only save 20 minutes each way, but he has rented a bike locker at Carvolth so he can cycle.

“Saving time is huge for me,” he said. “I hope it lives up to its promise, but we shall see.”

The express service runs every 10 minutes during peak hours. Parking is free at Carvolth through March After that, it will cost $2 a day.

There was a crush of drivers who waited until the final day to register for a Port Mann Bridge decal in order to qualify for 20 free trips. According to TReO, which handles Port Mann tolling services, 90,000 vehicles were registered on Friday alone, compared to the mid-November daily average of just 3,000. People were calling right up until midnight.

The next deadline for drivers is Feb. 28 to lock in the discounted rates for the rest of 2013.

“I encourage people to register before that date,” said Max Logan, spokesperson for Transportation Investment Corporation. “We’ll plan for a spike in demand.”

Langley Mayor Peter Fassbender said the new bridge is good not just for his community, but the entire region.

“What people need to remember is that it goes across heading west but it also comes east and we’ve got a lot of people who coming out here for schools, universities, jobs,” Fassbender said.

As vice chair of TransLink’s Mayors’ Council, Fassbender said Wednesday will be important because it’s the council’s first meeting with new Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure Mary Polak. The council has issue a deadline of Feb. 28, 2013 for sustainable funding options from the province.

“A lot of people have said when an election’s coming nothing will be done between now and then,” Fassbender said. “I argue with that. I think we need to be doing work all the time and we should keep our shoulder to the wheel. What we’re looking for are long-term financing solutions for the whole system not just for today but for the future.”

inv4zn

12-03-2012, 07:42 PM

It's very refreshing to see positive results from a controversial project.

I just really hope politicians don't use this to fuel political agenda's (to an extent of course - praise is due where praise is due) but I'm most certainly it will.

Will report back on Patullo traffic differences if I notice any once the tolling starts

Soundy

12-03-2012, 07:46 PM

Of course, there are always the idiots who just want something to complain about... like the guy who called the Simi Sara show this afternoon: not five minutes after reporter Shane Woodford talked about his morning commute, noted specifically the issues at the Brunette exit *because it's not finished yet* and pointed out that ALL the rest of the on and off ramps were still being revamped... some twit calls in and whines about how "they spent billions on this bridge and all they're doing is moving the problem and all the ramps are terrible and will just become a bigger mess..."

:facepalm:

SoulCrusher

12-03-2012, 07:51 PM

^ sounds like a resident of Vancouver or burnaby
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Soundy

12-03-2012, 08:01 PM

Oh yeah, the capper was, dipshit said he hadn't even driven the new bridge yet, and when Simi asked him whether he was planning to, he just sidestepped the question.

Musta been a Vision councilor.

Presto

12-04-2012, 07:36 AM

So, a friend took the new 555 bus, this morning. 18 min from Walnut Grove to Braid.

Tapioca

12-04-2012, 08:58 AM

So, a friend took the new 555 bus, this morning. 18 min from Walnut Grove to Braid.

This is a pretty good option for people who live in Langley. But if Surrey gets its way and has a stop built, it will probably increase the time by 5-10 minutes.
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originalhypa

12-04-2012, 09:25 AM

it’s likely few were feeling pangs of nostalgia.

More like pangs of good riddance.
After commuting on that bridge from 1994 until 2003 I welcome the new bridge. Not happy about the toll, but hey, that's capitalism at it's finest. Plus my time is worth more than the toll.

mb_

12-04-2012, 09:39 AM

Went over it this morning.. No backups until I got to Brunette lol
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GabAlmighty

12-04-2012, 09:47 AM

I don't wanna put my sticker on my windshield, booooo

Lomac

12-04-2012, 12:06 PM

Chances are it doesn't matter where on your windshield you put the sticker, provided it's not behind the tint. You can also request a small sticker to go somewhere on your headlights, if need be.

!Kodamu

12-04-2012, 12:49 PM

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MG1

12-04-2012, 01:57 PM

Chances are it doesn't matter where on your windshield you put the sticker, provided it's not behind the tint. You can also request a small sticker to go somewhere on your headlights, if need be.

The headlight ones are for motorcycles, no?

I think the idea behind the 2 inches below rearview mirror stem is so that the sticker isn't in direct line of view on windshield.

just guessing..............

fliptuner

12-04-2012, 02:01 PM

The headlight ones are for motorcycles, no?

I think the idea behind the 2 inches below rearview mirror stem is so that the sticker isn't in direct line of view on windshield.

just guessing..............

I might just put mine where the old inspection stickers used to go - bottom left.

Hondaracer

12-04-2012, 02:28 PM

Driving a truck I put mine about an inch below the mirror stem, I cannot see it no matter how I turn my head/where I look

However, I put the sticker on when I was baked and in the dark and now it's totally crooked lol :(
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mb_

12-04-2012, 03:55 PM

I didn't wanna put it behind my mirror because it'd be an eye sore but I said fuck it and it turns out I can't even see it at all unless I'm outside

BlackV62K2

12-05-2012, 10:01 AM

Rear ender on port mann today on the west end near lougheed hwy exit in HOV lane. Traffic was a crawl from toll cameras. Not impressed.

nabs

12-05-2012, 10:04 AM

i passed by (eastbound) there around 10:20ish... i guess it just happened then. but traffic was backed way passed 160 exit

BlackV62K2

12-05-2012, 10:07 AM

i passed by (eastbound) there around 10:20ish... i guess it just happened then. but traffic was backed way passed 160 exit

Yeah it happened around 10am. Still takes only one minor accident to cripple the bridge :(.

Great68

12-05-2012, 10:09 AM

murd0c

12-05-2012, 10:15 AM

I'm glad to hear the advertised time savings claims have come true.

Now with a fatter pipe, more people will be encouraged to move out to the valley. I wonder how many years it will be before traffic clogs up again?

they really have and I'm so shocked about it. It's weird not being stuck in traffic anymore in the morning. The way it's going I don't mind paying a toll since my times worth a lot more then the $1.50 fee each way.

blkgsr

12-05-2012, 05:11 PM

it's been great going home (surrey to coq) everyday this week

Major improvent vs last week...i've never stopped/slowed down yet trying to get on the highway at 152

falcon

12-05-2012, 05:24 PM

Yeah it happened around 10am. Still takes only one minor accident to cripple the bridge :(.

A minor accident will always cripple the bridge. I passed westbound over the bridge today at 8:45 and it was completely empty. No line entering at 152 either. Once tolling starts on the 8th, expect it to get even less congested.

Soundy

12-05-2012, 07:08 PM

Rear ender on port mann today on the west end near lougheed hwy exit in HOV lane. Traffic was a crawl from toll cameras. Not impressed.

Yeah it happened around 10am. Still takes only one minor accident to cripple the bridge :(.

Still only takes one minor accident to cripple ANY section of highway. Wouldn't matter if it was eight lanes each way, you just need a cop to pull someone over, and everyone has to slow down and and look. There's no cure for gaper's delay... you just can't fix stupid.

mb_

12-05-2012, 07:19 PM

There were 2 separate rear enders after Port Mann westbound 200 meters away from each other.. Looks like it just happened when I passed by at around 6:45am

mb_

12-06-2012, 06:46 AM

A semi broke down west bound and fucked everything up :fuuuuu:
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Hondaracer

12-06-2012, 08:12 AM

Obviously even minor accidents are going to fuck things up, this isn't some sort of magical freeway

If I ever see a group of idiots analyzing their accident damage on the port Mann again ill be sure to throw whatever beverage I have in my vehicle at the time at you

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ApePee2

12-07-2012, 08:05 PM

let the tolling begin :fuckthatshit:

anticipating a long backup for the pattullo once monday comes around

Messerschmitt

12-08-2012, 09:47 AM

I think it would be cheaper to pay the 1,50 than to wait 2 hours at pattulo :P

Glad I live on the north side of Fraser :P

Soundy

12-08-2012, 11:27 AM

I think it would be cheaper to pay the 1,50 than to wait 2 hours at pattulo :P
Congratulations on grasping the simple concept that seems to have escaped so many.

invader

12-08-2012, 11:34 AM

What's the point of the sticker if they have cameras scanning plates anyway?
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falcon

12-08-2012, 11:37 AM

Silly Vancouver ideologists will refuse to pay the toll for the fact of refusing to pay the toll.

Fine by me.

I think it will still be the way it is for a few weeks until all the people use up their 20 free trips. Then it will get thinner. Can't wait for the whole freeway to be finished.

Personally, the socialist in me thinks they should toll all the bridges and put it towards road infrastructure and it would also push everyone to take the bridge that makes the most sense for them. Then no one would avoid the toll bridge due to the cost and it would make traffic fall more even between all the crossings.

falcon

12-08-2012, 11:38 AM

What's the point of the sticker if they have cameras scanning plates anyway?
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No one but ICBC is allowed to hold personal information attached to plates. So they have to pay a processing fee to ICBC to find the address to send the bill. You save on the cost, as they forward that cost to you. I'm going to try to take the sensor out of the sticker and see if it still works. That way I can tuck the sensor in the bottom corner of the windscreen and not have an ugly fat sticker in the middle of my windscreen,

Messerschmitt

12-08-2012, 12:22 PM

Yea, the sticker is odious. They could have at least made it transparent and smaller

inv4zn

12-08-2012, 12:26 PM

Yea, the sticker is odious. They could have at least made it transparent and smaller

I learned a new word today. Thanks very much!:alonehappy:

fliptuner

12-08-2012, 12:47 PM

still need more reflectors

Tapioca

12-08-2012, 04:22 PM

Silly Vancouver ideologists will refuse to pay the toll for the fact of refusing to pay the toll.

Welcome to Vancouver: the Grumpiest Place on Earth where everyone complains about everything even if something actually makes sense.

Soundy

12-08-2012, 04:23 PM

Yea, the sticker is odious. They could have at least made it transparent and smaller

I learned a new word today. Thanks very much!:alonehappy:

"Sticker"?

GabAlmighty

12-08-2012, 04:28 PM

still need more reflectors

Just drive like you own the place

hotjoint

12-10-2012, 09:47 AM

Personally, the socialist in me thinks they should toll all the bridges and put it towards road infrastructure and it would also push everyone to take the bridge that makes the most sense for them. Then no one would avoid the toll bridge due to the cost and it would make traffic fall more even between all the crossings.

Exactly what I would have ideally wanted. This way the tolls for the bridges will be cheaper as well. Instead of 1.50 for port man, it would be like 50 cents or a little more. Once they make back the money they need, they can remove the tolls off the bridges. This makes a lot more sense to me but Translink and making sense don't go hand in hand.

inv4zn

12-10-2012, 10:21 AM

There was absolutely no increase in traffic on the Patullo today, at least going into Surrey.

Thank goodness.

melloman

12-10-2012, 12:02 PM

Meanwhile everybody was stuck on Highway 1 Westbound @ Gaglardi/Kensington like usual. :troll:

(Saw it on CTV News @ 7am.)

skyxx

12-10-2012, 03:54 PM

Exactly what I would have ideally wanted. This way the tolls for the bridges will be cheaper as well. Instead of 1.50 for port man, it would be like 50 cents or a little more. Once they make back the money they need, they can remove the tolls off the bridges. This makes a lot more sense to me but Translink and making sense don't go hand in hand.

Remove? :fuckthatshit:

falcon

12-10-2012, 10:07 PM

rexsomnii

12-10-2012, 11:29 PM

i got my sticker but i wont stick it on the windshield. hopefully ill remember to hold the sticker up as i cross it.

Soundy

12-11-2012, 06:43 AM

hotjoint

12-11-2012, 08:05 AM

Remove? :fuckthatshit:

Yes removed, like they did with the Coquihalla Highway

GabAlmighty

12-11-2012, 09:26 AM

Incase anyone else didn't notice, the #1 from 232 to the bridge is now 100KPH. Still way too slow IMO I was cruising with all the other traffic at 125-130KPH and didn't even realize it until I actually looked at my speedo.

I still only do about 100-105kph but good to know they've finally gotten out of the 90kph it used to be.

Traum

12-11-2012, 10:53 AM

skyxx

12-11-2012, 11:18 AM

Yes removed, like they did with the Coquihalla Highway

They will never do that with the Port Mann. I can guarantee it. It's a massive income for the government. Plus it helps pays for a lot of shit.

Graeme S

12-11-2012, 11:18 AM

They will never do that with the Port Mann. I can guarantee it. It's a massive income for the government. Plus it helps pays for a lot of shit.
You mean like the loans they took out to build it?

skyxx

12-11-2012, 11:21 AM

^ That'll never be paid back in full. :fuckthatshit: Bottom line is, they'll NEVER remove it. Unless the Port Mann is poorly maintained after the bridge has been paid back. Pressure from everyone to take it off as a result of what I just said. Anyway, I can guarantee there will be more toll projects after the Port Mann.

UFO

12-11-2012, 11:21 AM

Yes removed, like they did with the Coquihalla Highway

Because they removed the Coq tolls as soon as the highway was paid off, amirite?

hotjoint

12-11-2012, 11:25 AM

Because they removed the Coq tolls as soon as the highway was paid off, amirite?

haha I don't know the story behind that. All I know is that they removed it. Wasn't the Lionsgate tolled way back as well? Just wishful thinking :fullofwin:

murd0c

12-11-2012, 11:26 AM

Because they removed the Coq tolls as soon as the highway was paid off, amirite?

they removed the tolls 10 years late...

UFO

12-11-2012, 11:54 AM

Yet it happened virtually overnight

melloman

12-11-2012, 12:38 PM

Anyway, I can guarantee there will be more toll projects after the Port Mann.

Of course there are.

Patullo's plans already have a DEFINITE toll lined up in the schedule.
Also the Massey Tunnel project will have a toll, whether it be made into a bridge or an additional tunnel is bored, a toll there is inevitable.

sekin67835

12-11-2012, 12:41 PM

Can't blame them. No one wants to spend money on building infrastructure. Money has to come in from somewhere.
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skyxx

12-11-2012, 02:06 PM

I personally don't mind the the tolls. It's the only way to supplement the cost of building better roads.

JesseBlue

12-11-2012, 03:10 PM

^then let's toll all bridges and tunnels...makes sense right? let user's pay for building better roads..or do you mean you don't mind the toll on golden ears and port mann or the soon to be new patullo?

UFO

12-11-2012, 04:49 PM

^with that blanket tolling of all bridges and tunnels, you could decrease the toll amounts to generate the income that you need. Take it a step further, toll based how much you drive regardless of whether its road, bridge, tunnel. Like a glorified gas tax if you will

Hondaracer

12-11-2012, 08:39 PM

i have far less of a problem paying for a bridge I use on a daily basis opposed to paying a fucking Translink tax for using public transit MAYBE 3 times a year?

fuck translink

Soundy

12-11-2012, 09:28 PM

Dammit... listening to the traffic this morning, St. Johns is SERIOUSLY backed up from an accident, everyone's going Mary Hill instead, which is seriously backing THAT up... I'd just take the Golden Ears and then the Port Mann and avoid it all heading downtown, except I have to stop for parts just off United. Guess I could still do it and then double back...
Well, I did it... took me 20 minutes of clear, smooth sailing from Pitt Meadows to Glacier Dr. Going the normal route with the MHB backed up to the pedestrian overpass, it would take half an hour just to make it through that wad of traffic to get onto United.

Not a massive gas savings, but hey, it's the company vehicle :troll:

Is it just me, or does it seem like there is an accident on the new Port Mann every other day, and then it fxxks the traffic up big time?
So what's your point? Like someone else said, it's not some magical bridge that does away with accidents... and like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you make a road 10 lanes each way, an accident will always fuck things up just because all the idiots have to slow down and see what's going on. Doesn't matter if it's a bridge or a regular section of freeway, you just can't fix stupid.

Messerschmitt

12-11-2012, 09:37 PM

i have far less of a problem paying for a bridge I use on a daily basis opposed to paying a fucking Translink tax for using public transit MAYBE 3 times a year?

fuck translink

You mean how they have a Translink tax in the petrol AND in bchydro bill? AND in SFU parking?

And how you need to pay 11$ from next year if you have to travel from one end to the other with return?

How Toronto (no zones) only costs you 6$ for a return from one end to the other?

Thranslink is the biggest ripoff. It's not even govn. It's private (AFAIK). And they get all these subsidies. I think we need to vote a new govn.

Soundy

12-11-2012, 09:44 PM

It's not even govn. It's private (AFAIK). And they get all these subsidies. I think we need to vote a new govn.
Anyone else see a problem with this logic? :fulloffuck: :fullofwin:

Instead of "AFAIK", the information is pretty easy to find:

Governance and Board (http://www.translink.ca/en/About-Us/Governance-and-Board.aspx)

Governance and Board
As guided by the South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/00_98030_01) (the Act), TransLink has a multi-tiered governance structure that includes: the Board of Directors, the Mayors’ Council on Regional Transportation and the Regional Transportation Commissioner. A Screening Panel, established annually, is responsible for nominating candidates for appointment to the Board.

The Board has the responsibility and the mandate to make decisions in the interest of TransLink within the limits established by the Act.

Governance Model (http://www.translink.ca/en/About-Us/Governance-and-Board/Governance-Model.aspx)

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/images/content/about_translink/governance_and_board/board_governance_model/ctlvt_translink_board_structure.ashx?w=500&h=561&as=1

MindBomber

12-11-2012, 11:10 PM

You mean how they have a Translink tax in the petrol AND in bchydro bill? AND in SFU parking?

And how you need to pay 11$ from next year if you have to travel from one end to the other with return?

How Toronto (no zones) only costs you 6$ for a return from one end to the other?

Thranslink is the biggest ripoff. It's not even govn. It's private (AFAIK). And they get all these subsidies. I think we need to vote a new govn.

Toronto Transit Commission covers a 622 square kilometer service area.

Translink covers a 2977 square kilometer service area.

It's completely unreasonable to compare the pricing of a Translink 3 zone pass to a TTC pass, because the two passes service completely incomparable sized areas. It's like saying a flight to Toronto should cost the same as a flight to Calgary.

It would be reasonable to compare pricing of a Translink 1 zone pass to a TTC pass, because those two passes service comparable sized service areas. Oddly enough, Translink suddenly offers much better value when you do that - Translink $91 (2013) 1 zone pass compared to the TTC $126 pass.

Next time you feel like making a post like this spend a moment researching and reading on the subject first. You'll actually achieve something that way.

You live in a first world country, a place where transit is subsidized on the same principles as education. A SFU student suggesting transit should not be subsidized, because they do not make use of the service is completely hypocrital; a SFU education is largely being paid for by people in the work force who have either never attended post-secondary or attended only short technical programs.

^with that blanket tolling of all bridges and tunnels, you could decrease the toll amounts to generate the income that you need. Take it a step further, toll based how much you drive regardless of whether its road, bridge, tunnel. Like a glorified gas tax if you will

I do not like this concept.

I hold the belief that gas taxes are a highly appropriate driving tax; it's a simple, streamlined, and fair base system.

I do support tolling all bridges, tunnels, and routes such as the Coquihalla and Sea to Sky, because the cost of building and maintaining them makes up a disproportionate percentage of cost relative to use for the overall road network. The people who make use of those services should therefore foot the bill. Not the person in Langley who crosses a bridge twice a year.

Gridlock

12-12-2012, 08:12 AM

My only issue on tolling is it would be nice if it was done across the board.

We have a nice new highway to a ski resort...for free

We have a nice new highway for trucks to use...for free. Furthermore, those trucks are carrying goods, products and services through, not to our province. The end user of a vast majority never paid tax to contribute to the highway at all.

We have the Port Mann at $3 a trip, which I still to this day believe to be excessive in a land of: gas tax. Translink tax. Carbon Tax.

That's my issue right there. I'm not a hippie that was protesting against the gateway project. I'm a person that is starting to say "enough".

MindBomber

12-12-2012, 12:45 PM

The Gateway Project should be tolled, but it never will be.

It's simple, really. The economy benefits from construction both during and after, but investing a billion dollars a year in infrastructure is not practical or sustainable in the long term. The finances to do that are not in the budget, and even if we were to have a government operated as efficiently as a private sector business they would continue to be absent. The only answer is tolls, a solution people and businesses will happily accept if they experience a benefit from the projects.

The Gateway truck route will cost $3 billion dollars, but if it doesn't save drivers time over current routes it will be empty. If it does save drivers money, it will be eagerly embraced. A tractor-trailer costs about $65 an hour to operate - that's $1.08 a minute. If there were a $3 toll for use of the Gateway truck route it would make financial sense if it saved 4 minutes or more. If the route saves drivers less than 4 minutes it's a failure in concept, achieving almost nothing. If the route is well designed, even with a toll, the drivers its designed for will happily use it. It doesn't have a toll though, and that's a $3 billion dollar fuck-up IMO.

Gridlock

12-12-2012, 03:15 PM

So rush hour starts at 3 now in New West. Awesome.

JesseBlue

12-12-2012, 03:44 PM

and 6am in surrey going to patullo...

Soundy

12-12-2012, 05:34 PM

If the route is well designed, even with a toll, the drivers its designed for will happily use it. It's not though, and that's a $3 billion dollar fuck-up IMO.
How do you make this determination when the 75% or more of the route isn't even finished and in use yet?

Soundy

12-12-2012, 05:37 PM

So rush hour starts at 3 now in New West. Awesome.

and 6am in surrey going to patullo...

Hwy. 1 eastbound was smooth sailing from Willingdon all the way to the United exit at 4:30 this afternoon. Speed never dropped below 40km/h the whole way.

If someone wants to fight through the Patullo crush for a couple hours as a "protest" against paying a buck and a half to get there in 20 minutes... by all means, let them. Their idiocy makes life easier for the rest of us.

mb_

12-12-2012, 05:47 PM

Took me just over 20 minutes to get from Surrey to BCIT this morning.. :fuckyea:

Gridlock

12-12-2012, 06:36 PM

How do you make this determination when the 75% or more of the route isn't even finished and in use yet?

re-read his post. You didn't understand it. :)

Hondaracer

12-12-2012, 06:40 PM

tempted to hoof it out onto the old port mann for some pictures late night :D

Soundy

12-12-2012, 08:30 PM

re-read his post. You didn't understand it. :)

I understood the rest of his post just fine. You re-read his last sentence: it appears to be drawing a conclusion that all is said and done and has failed.

Or maybe my Engrish just isn't that good. :nyan:

iEatClams

12-12-2012, 08:42 PM

Hwy. 1 eastbound was smooth sailing from Willingdon all the way to the United exit at 4:30 this afternoon. Speed never dropped below 40km/h the whole way.

If someone wants to fight through the Patullo crush for a couple hours as a "protest" against paying a buck and a half to get there in 20 minutes... by all means, let them. Their idiocy makes life easier for the rest of us.

+ 1

MindBomber

12-12-2012, 08:54 PM

I understood the rest of his post just fine. You re-read his last sentence: it appears to be drawing a conclusion that all is said and done and has failed.

Or maybe my Engrish just isn't that good. :nyan:

I went back and edited it, my final sentence wasn't clear.

I think the route will be successful; I define success as it saving an average of greater than five minutes per hour by offering a more direct path to destinations. Companies would therefore use the route whether tolled or un-tolled, because the difference would only be the degree of savings. That means the result of not tolling is giving away $3 billion dollars in free access, a sort of stimulus to the container truck driving industry. Giving away $3 billion dollars to truckers is a mistake, because the economy would benefit more significantly by investing it elsewhere; such as a project which cannot so easily re-coup funds, like transit expansions.

While I'm posting in this thread...

Whoever designed the 176th westbound exit is fucking special, short bus special. They could of built a roundabout, or stuck with the tried and true design. They didn't do that though. They designed it so a light stops traffic northbound, drivers turn left, and immediately merge into busy, truck heavy southbound traffic; how the fuck is that intelligent or even safe? At least the view while you sit at the light is nice, because that totally compensates for the terrible design that makes me fear for my life. All of 176th is equally terrible, Barnston is no longer accessible from 176th either.

inv4zn

12-12-2012, 08:55 PM

So rush hour starts at 3 now in New West. Awesome.

and 6am in surrey going to patullo...

Did you guys really notice a huge difference?

I take the Patullo to/fro work, from Coquitlam, down 8th and onto McBride Blvd, and go to Scott Road, and vice-versa.

I didn't notice anything huge in the last 3 days...

but maybe people are using the Port Mann for their first 10 trips and then the Patullo after...

Soundy

12-12-2012, 09:07 PM

From watching and listening to the traffic reports this week so far, it sounds like the Patullo is seeing a SLIGHT increase in traffic, but on the whole, nothing really substantial.

One thing, I see people noting that some of the usual trouble spots are still bad - Burnaby Lake, etc. - and that's to be expected because there's still a lot of construction there. What I HAVE ALSO noticed though, since I work in trades and drive all over the region at all times of day, is that there's not the ALL-DAY crunch through the Burnaby/Coquitlam stretch. It bogs down again during rush hour, though usually not quite as bad... but outside rush hour things tend to be noticeably better.

Then again, we're only a couple weeks into the new bridge, and there are definitely variations in traffic patterns over the course of a month.

Soundy

12-12-2012, 09:11 PM

I went back and edited it, my final sentence wasn't clear.
Fair'nuff.

I think the route will be successful; I define success as it saving an average of greater than five minutes per hour by offering a more direct path to destinations.
Just thinking about the amount of truck traffic this should divert from Stewardson/Front St./Columbia - I can see some of those trucks cutting their travel time by half or more. It will also make those routes a lot more efficient for regular traffic that needs to get to points in between.

Whoever designed the 176th westbound exit is fucking special, short bus special. They could of built a roundabout, or stuck with the tried and true design.
I wish I knew what happened to the good ol' cloverleaf... they've worked fine for decades especially all over the US Interstates, keeping on/off traffic moving smoothly without interruption in ALL directions.

fliptuner

12-13-2012, 11:37 AM

I went into the Treo office to reg. and get decals on the last day. Now I just got another set of decals in the mail. I guess I can just toss these out since my decals and plates are already sync'd?

mb_

12-13-2012, 01:45 PM

So who got caught in that huge ass multiple vehicle accident this morning? Happened around Brunette west bound at around 7am. Didn't see what really happened because I got off Brunette and took Lougheed on the way to school.

Gridlock

12-13-2012, 02:49 PM

Did you guys really notice a huge difference?

I take the Patullo to/fro work, from Coquitlam, down 8th and onto McBride Blvd, and go to Scott Road, and vice-versa.

I didn't notice anything huge in the last 3 days...

but maybe people are using the Port Mann for their first 10 trips and then the Patullo after...

I did notice that when I was going to the other building(thankfully, there is a back way that avoids Royal) that it was 3pm and traffic was lined up to 8th street on Royal. Certainly was not a scientific poll of current traffic trends by any means.

It seemed early and it seemed like a lot more cars. I didn't listen for a stall or anything as I wasn't wanting to go over the bridge.

JSALES

12-17-2012, 08:08 PM

Do any of you guys get text messages from that "pay by phone port mann tolling"?
Posted via RS Mobile

TypeRNammer

12-18-2012, 01:43 AM

Placed the decal to the right of the stem of my mirror and above my dash cam.

The bridge was able to communicate with my decal.

:notbad:

MG1

12-18-2012, 06:31 AM

Placed the decal to the right of the stem of my mirror and above my dash cam.

The bridge was able to communicate with my decal.

:notbad:

That's roughly where I have mine. BTW, how does one know the decal has worked?

I have an Escort 9500iX radar detector and the laser alert comes on maybe 1 time out of 8 or so. I'm thinking maybe the laser just helps with guiding/adjusting the cameras. I have no idea how it all works.

mb_

12-18-2012, 06:37 AM

Check your TReO account
Posted via RS Mobile

hotjoint

12-18-2012, 06:43 AM

Check your TReO account
Posted via RS Mobile

:werd:

MG1

12-18-2012, 06:50 AM

True..........

that means I have to leave RS for a few seconds, LOLOLOLOLOL

RRxtar

12-18-2012, 10:00 AM

True..........

that means I have to leave RS for a few seconds, LOLOLOLOLOL
we'll miss you. come back soon and share tales of your adventure!

murd0c

12-18-2012, 10:06 AM

so weird just checked Treo and shows that half of my charges went though my sticker and my plate. Hopefully it doesn't screw me up down the road.

Presto

12-18-2012, 10:18 AM

^^^
Did you click view all tolls (https://account.treo.ca/my-account/tolling-history)? I thought I was missing some, but found out it only shows the last 3, or something.

Soundy

12-18-2012, 10:23 AM

we'll miss you. come back soon and share tales of your adventure!

ROR

MG1

12-18-2012, 11:01 AM

I thought this thread was about tolls, not trolls. LOLOLOLOLOL

MG1

12-18-2012, 11:39 AM

OK, tried to log on and it seems the web site is temporarily down, so I called the toll free number. Nice lady on other end told me everything was fine and that my decal works as it should. While I was on the phone, I made sure my account was "e-mail bill" and not "mail me bill". Not a factor till April, but I didn't want to forget and get charged extra for having bill sent through the mail.

ApePee2

12-19-2012, 01:07 PM

hmmm

did someone overlook this in the design of the bridge......

Port Mann Bridge closed indefinitely | News1130 (http://m.news1130.com/2012/12/19/port-mann-bridge-closed-indefinitely/)
Posted via RS Mobile

Soundy

12-19-2012, 01:13 PM

^That article says they're having the same problem now on the Alex Fraser, and it's been there for 20 years, apparently without this happening before.

Hondaracer

12-19-2012, 01:21 PM

Mix of rain/snow/rain/ice probably

Although it could be just idiots phoning in over small shit hitting their car
Posted via RS Mobile

dhari

12-19-2012, 01:26 PM

Mix of rain/snow/rain/ice probably

Although it could be just idiots phoning in over small shit hitting their car
Posted via RS Mobile

14817

Found this pic in the link on News1130

falcon

12-19-2012, 01:32 PM

^That article says they're having the same problem now on the Alex Fraser, and it's been there for 20 years, apparently without this happening before.

I can see it happening there... although the design of the PM is a bit different with all the bridge stays going over the lanes.

It's not going to happen everytime it snows... likely a mix of snow/rain/freezing then rapid warming.

MG1

12-19-2012, 01:45 PM

Damn, I guess it's the Mission Bridge for me today. I was about to leave for home when a co-worker told me about the bridge being closed.

Tapioca

12-19-2012, 01:45 PM

Of course, the peanut gallery on News1130 has not hesitated from whining about the bridge's design flaws.

The people in this city sometimes...
Posted via RS Mobile

Traum

12-19-2012, 01:51 PM

Of course, the peanut gallery on News1130 has not hesitated from whining about the bridge's design flaws.

The people in this city sometimes...
Posted via RS Mobile
Can you blame them though? The bridge is a billion dollar project that has just finished and hasn't even been in operation for a month, and now it happens. Apparently, similar incidents have occurred in the US as well, so it makes you think if the engineers have really done their homework.

k3lv

12-19-2012, 02:16 PM

If it wasn't a big deal then they wouldn't have shut it down. Billion dollar bridge, implemented tolls, and is now advertised as "the easy and efficient way", and they have to close cause the design team and engineers neglected that we are prone to having snow once in a while.. what a bitch.

StylinRed

12-19-2012, 02:24 PM

Damn, I guess it's the Mission Bridge for me today. I was about to leave for home when a co-worker told me about the bridge being closed.

you and everyone else :heckno: congesting my streets in ridge :devil:

;)

Soundy

12-19-2012, 02:24 PM

I can see it happening there... although the design of the PM is a bit different with all the bridge stays going over the lanes.

True. Actually, with the Alex Fraser, I wouldn't be surprised that wind blowing chunks off the cables would be a factor... that design does also have the two cross-pieces between towers, over the roadway. The other similar types of bridges - Pitt River and Golden Ears - don't have any portion of the structure crossing over the roadway.

It's not going to happen everytime it snows... likely a mix of snow/rain/freezing then rapid warming.
Yeah, I'd think if it was really that common an issue, we'd see a lot more of it on the other bridges - wouldn't take much wind to blow pieces off and onto the road. Still, with the stays actually going over the road, anything falling off is inherently more dangerous, and they'll have to do something to fix it.

604nguyen

12-19-2012, 02:49 PM

" Hey lets design the bridge have all the suspending cables cross over the entire span of the bridge! :derp:"

I wonder what they're going to do to fix this? Heat trace each suspension cable? lol

Tapioca

12-19-2012, 03:05 PM

Can you blame them though? The bridge is a billion dollar project that has just finished and hasn't even been in operation for a month, and now it happens. Apparently, similar incidents have occurred in the US as well, so it makes you think if the engineers have really done their homework.

So, do you build something that takes into account every freak weather pattern?

Or, do you risk manage and save money and time in the process?

I'm not sure of the choice myself. I challenge someone to give a reasoned answer.
Posted via RS Mobile

StylinRed

12-19-2012, 03:08 PM

bloodline129

12-19-2012, 03:10 PM

Do it right the first time... Especially a damn public bridge lol... Now they gonna hire more smart asses to figure out a solution for the first fail :P
Posted via RS Mobile

inv4zn

12-19-2012, 03:17 PM

Translink is now selling these:

http://www.yourhrexperts.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/umbrella_over_car-vi1.jpg

:derp:

striderblade

12-19-2012, 03:18 PM

Any idea when the bridge will be open up again?

inv4zn

12-19-2012, 03:23 PM

between 5 to 7 according to "officials."

Tapioca

12-19-2012, 03:24 PM

Do it right the first time... Especially a damn public bridge lol... Now they gonna hire more smart asses to figure out a solution for the first fail :P
Posted via RS Mobile

People are always quick to assume that the people behind these projects are idiots.

In the public sector, any time public money gets spent for anything, questions get asked hundreds of times before anything gets approved. This issue was probably raised but, based on what has happened, it appears that the design was risk-managed.

I know most of you probably disagree in light of the results, but sometimes, you can't put a square peg into a round hole. The design of the bridge was probably the most cost-effective considering the requirements (width of the span, etc.) I imagine that heat tubes would have added many millions to the project.
Posted via RS Mobile

Hondaracer

12-19-2012, 03:37 PM

Bitch bitch bitch
Posted via RS Mobile

Lomac

12-19-2012, 03:37 PM

^^^^ we're a rainforest with storms throughout the year, we get snow every year, is it inconceivable to get what we got last night once or twice a year? not at all (especially since what we got was nothing)

No one is denying the fact that we get snow down here, lest of all the engineers. What we normally don't get, however, is a night of snow and freezing ice, only for it to warm right up after a few hours. Typical weather would allow the ice on the bridge to slowly warm up over time, allowing it to drip off... not fall down in chunks.

No, this is not the first time it's happened in the past (I can remember it happening only once on the old Port Mann in the past), but it happens so infrequently that it's almost a non-issue when it comes to bridge designs down here.

yray

12-19-2012, 03:39 PM

okay, lets take down this bridge and build a new one :troll:

Soundy

12-19-2012, 03:49 PM

I'm not sure of the choice myself. I challenge someone to give a reasoned answer.
Posted via RS Mobile
This is Revscene, don't hold your breath.

^^^^ we're a rainforest with storms throughout the year, we get snow every year, is it inconceivable to get what we got last night once or twice a year? not at all (especially since what we got was nothing)
Actually, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that the situation of ice building up and falling off is found to be a VERY rare result of this specific combination of weather conditions. A half-degree change in temperature either way... a slight breeze while the snow was falling... a fractionally different mix of rain and snow... the smallest thing could have changed and potentially none of it would have happened.

That's the whole idea of risk management: you put in all the known factors, you determine the likelihood that a certain scenario will occur, you figure out what it will cost to mitigate that likelihood... and proceed from there. For all we know, this possibility was known, the chances of it occurring were calculated, and it was deemed it would cost more to prevent than it was worth.

And then again, maybe it's true, with all the hundreds of similar cable-stayed bridge designs in the world, nobody actually thought of this possibility.

Obviously, in standard RS fashion, everyone assumes the latter and that these things spend years on the drawing board under the pencils of barely-trained monkeys rather than several levels of high-priced, well-schooled engineers.

Soundy

12-19-2012, 03:52 PM

No, this is not the first time it's happened in the past (I can remember it happening only once on the old Port Mann in the past), but it happens so infrequently that it's almost a non-issue when it comes to bridge designs down here.
When you think about it, all the old "arch" style bridges have plenty of structure over the roadway as well - lots of room for ice and snow to build up and then fall off. The only significant difference here is that the supports are all sharply sloped, rather than horizontal.

JesseBlue

12-19-2012, 03:58 PM

Look at it this way... For not using the bridge, you saved a couple of bucks...go to the dollar store and buy something...russell p. will be proud of you...
Posted via RS Mobile

Soundy

12-19-2012, 04:25 PM

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/154784_10151200689812798_465238920_n.jpg

StylinRed

12-19-2012, 06:42 PM

supposedly the eastbound tacoma narrows bridge had to be closed last winter because of the same issue

it was also built by Kiewit

the tacoma narrows' cables don't cross the lanes though

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that the situation of ice building up and falling off is found to be a VERY rare result of this specific combination of weather conditions. A half-degree change in temperature either way... a slight breeze while the snow was falling... a fractionally different mix of rain and snow... the smallest thing could have changed and potentially none of it would have happened.

That's the whole idea of risk management: you put in all the known factors, you determine the likelihood that a certain scenario will occur, you figure out what it will cost to mitigate that likelihood... and proceed from there. For all we know, this possibility was known, the chances of it occurring were calculated, and it was deemed it would cost more to prevent than it was worth.

And then again, maybe it's true, with all the hundreds of similar cable-stayed bridge designs in the world, nobody actually thought of this possibility.

Obviously, in standard RS fashion, everyone assumes the latter and that these things spend years on the drawing board under the pencils of barely-trained monkeys rather than several levels of high-priced, well-schooled engineers.

well they do do tests and simulations for ice build-up; and we know now that similar cases have occurred with cabled bridges built by the same company; i agree though that it was probably determined that they would take the risk of it happening

Soundy

12-19-2012, 07:10 PM

LiquidTurbo

12-19-2012, 09:08 PM

The 'perfect' bridge could have been built. But the same people whining about this would instead be bitching about the $20 toll.

It is rather unlucky. I suspect this sort of thing won't happen again anytime soon, even in another snowstorm. It was just an unlucky sort of variables. We'll just have to see.

twitchyzero

12-19-2012, 10:04 PM

I'm not sure of the choice myself. I challenge someone to give a reasoned answer.
Posted via RS Mobile

I'm not a structural engineer

They're the experts...they should figure this shit out.

As if this is the first time snow/ice thawed quickly with winds blowing on an infrastructure

alpinestars

12-19-2012, 10:35 PM

Keep in mind some of the variables and correlations here that engineers and other decision makes would analyze:

(All data below is hypothetical and meant to illustrate a point)

Control factor: wet/icey weather temperature changing between freezing and low positive temperatures

Data on damaged vehicles on this day:

http://www.sumoflam.biz/Washington07/Images/Day10/EdHendlerBridge.jpg
Some bridge from the states, cable design: >10 vehicles damaged, bridge shut down temporarily

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/4833547.jpg
Alex fraser bridge: >8 vehicles damaged

http://www.vancouversun.com/7377841.bin
Port Mann Bridge w/ cables directly over roads: >60 vehicles significantly damaged by ice

With the previous 2 bridges, the ~10 vehicles damaged during similar weather may not be statstically relevant for it to make sense to be a poor design. It could be as relevant as ice chunks falling off a street lamp pole, which is unavoidable within reason. But over 60 (probably low 100's by now, the 60 number I got earlier today) is a huge figure. 6x the amount of whats considered tolerable. That's a huge number.

All things equal, besides the bridge design, there would be a *reasonable* amount of quantitative data for engineers to re-assess their design and consider it faulty. In this case, they would weigh the cost of repairing damaged vehicles, lost tolls, and economic disadvantages with the cost of the best possible solution to fix the bridge (eg, heat traced cables, a barrier over the bridge, etc). In addition, decision makers would look at a forecast on how frequently did this type of weather pattern happen in the past, and use that along with other variables to make a prediction on future weather forecasts.

http://www.vancouversun.com/7722765.bin

Now decision makers can say okay, rainy ice chunks of death will happen on this bridge every 2.5 years, but comes with an annual cost of $4 million dollars in damage, injuries, and a death or two. But even the most cheapest design change, that is expected to improve the design by 99%, will cost $380 million dollars. Well if the useful life expectancy of this bridge is 60 years, and the cost/benefit of a design change is realized at 95 years, it may be more worth it financially to pay out all damage/injury/death claims than to re-design the bridge.

The cost/benefit of this, plus I suppose a public opinion poll, hearing, or whatever, would all be factored into this equation.

The kicker: LOTS of red tape and paperwork before any of this happens.

But now think about this. If in this case decision makers choose the best option would be to let continue the bridge's operation without design changes, how shitty would you feel if a big chunk of ice killed one of your family members? Someone you cared about died so that the general public could save $15 every time they pass the bridge.

Sorry if this fact offends some of you but I'm just shedding light on reality. I may have gone too far. I may have gone a bridge too far.

iwantaskyline

12-19-2012, 10:48 PM

They better fix this. We spent 500+ million on a roof for BC place for two semi-pro sports teams that use the stadium half the year. They better not try and save a few hundred mill which might result in lives being lost.

melloman

12-20-2012, 07:20 AM

It's not the fault of those who actually built it, either - if anything the problem lies in the actual design, particularly of the cable sheaths, and the material they're made of, all of which allowed the ice to build up. The ones building it have little or no say in that - they're given the plans and they follow what those tell them to do.

What's bolded is exactly it.
The weather is a giant factor that comes into play, yet they should still have those cable sheaths designed to a certain point where ice should not be able to build up on them. Because of this fact it has the ability to "rain icy death chunks."

They now have to figure out a solution.

@alpinestars: It's not the fact that they look at it being a $4million annual cost to pay out the people injured, it's downtime.

If they close the bridge for 1 day a year because of this annoying occurrence. That could translate into way more then $4 million. Assuming 250,000 people cross this bridge a day, that would be 250,000 x 3 = $750k. Plus any more lawsuits, court costs, lawyers, etc. for the injured parties. (And that's for just 1 day.. We get snow more then 1 day a year)

I think the toll might go up once they figure out the solution. :pokerface:

Soundy

12-20-2012, 07:53 AM

Keep in mind some of the variables and correlations here that engineers and other decision makes would analyze:

(All data below is hypothetical and meant to illustrate a point)

You left out one major factor: hindsight is 20/20.

There are dozens if not hundreds of bridges of this basic design (tower/cable stayed) in the world, some (many?) of them with cables over the roadway, most without. Some are in warmer climates, some colder; some will experience snow and ice, some won't. Most have been in operation for years if not decades.

In all that, with a collective dozens if not hundreds of winters behind the design, it's apparent that a situation like this, to this severity, has not happened before - if it had, the design would have been modified to mitigate the risks, a long time ago.

So here you have a very particular combination of design and weather events that have conspired to create a very specific set conditions, quite possibly for the first time *ever*... so they were supposed to have planned for this based on, what... experience?

It's easy for all the armchair engineers to look at it now and say, "duh, why didn't they think of that?".

Yodamaster

12-20-2012, 08:09 AM

Death from above, the prequel

originalhypa

12-20-2012, 08:15 AM

simple solution, huge nets above the roadway. temporary use, put them up in November, take them down in May.

now where is my million dollars?

:troll:

i still love the new bridge though. when it's not raining icy chunks of death it's a really nice drive.

Hondaracer

12-20-2012, 08:19 AM

Yea can't wait till summer nights for crossings :D
Posted via RS Mobile

InvisibleSoul

12-20-2012, 08:23 AM

Some bridge from the states, cable design: >10 vehicles damaged, bridge shut down temporarily

Alex fraser bridge: >8 vehicles damaged

Port Mann Bridge w/ cables directly over roads: >60 vehicles significantly damaged by ice

Where did you get these statistics from?

fliptuner

12-20-2012, 08:31 AM

Deductibles from damage caused on the Port Mann yesterday will be waived. Also, no tolls will be charged from 10am -6pm.

As per Mike Proudfoot, TI CEO

GLOW

12-20-2012, 09:00 AM

Deductibles from damage caused on the Port Mann yesterday will be waived. Also, no tolls will be charged from 10am -6pm.

As per Mike Proudfoot, TI CEO

Global News | Bridge firm will cover damage costs from ice that hit cars; tolls also waived (http://www.globalnews.ca/health/canada/bridge+firm+will+cover+damage+costs+from+ice+that+ hit+cars+tolls+also+waived/6442776175/story.html)

gars

12-20-2012, 09:11 AM

simple solution, huge nets above the roadway. temporary use, put them up in November, take them down in May.

Wouldn't the nets also accumulate ice/snow as well? :P

Presto

12-20-2012, 09:12 AM

Wouldn't the nets also accumulate ice/snow as well? :P

Then you just put down another layer of nets, and so forth!

tiger_handheld

12-20-2012, 09:42 AM

isn't there some sort of heated wire they can run on the cables? I'm thinking something like the rear window defroster lines. seems a lot more "cleaner" than giant nets =\

GLOW

12-20-2012, 09:43 AM

laser nets like in resident evil
http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content10/resident-evil-laser-hallway.jpg

GLOW

12-20-2012, 09:44 AM

jasonturbo

12-20-2012, 10:05 AM

jasonturbo

12-20-2012, 10:07 AM

isn't there some sort of heated wire they can run on the cables? I'm thinking something like the rear window defroster lines. seems a lot more "cleaner" than giant nets =\

probably snow melt cables similar to ones used on parkade ramps

EHT - Electronic heat tracing, this would cost huge moneys, and IMO it's not a practical solution due to the cost/difficulty to install/maintain. (You would also need to insulate the cable sheaths after EHT was installed)

BMW M5

12-20-2012, 10:16 AM

You heard it here first,

If they chose to do anything about the ICE CHUNKS OF NEAR DEATH, it will likley be to have a contractor apply a specialty coating to the cable sheaths.

This IMO, is the only logical means of attempting to fix the problem - taking finances into consideration.

there is already a coating to prevent this, but it didnt work.

EHT - Electronic heat tracing, this would cost huge moneys, and IMO it's not a practical solution due to the cost/difficulty to install/maintain. (You would also need to insulate the cable sheaths after EHT was installed)

Totally agree, the problem is that we are not talking about just 2 cables spaning the length of the bridge like the alex fraser or lions gate, we are talking about all xx amount of cables holding up the bridge span across the roadways, so all of them will need the EHT. It will cost millions to put up and maintain.

jasonturbo

12-20-2012, 11:12 AM

there is already a coating to prevent this, but it didnt work.

Cable Sheath Coating Rev 1.0?

ShadowBun

12-20-2012, 01:16 PM

any est. when it's going to be reopened?

Lomac

12-20-2012, 01:21 PM

any est. when it's going to be reopened?

...yesterday.

:suspicious:

fliptuner

12-20-2012, 01:26 PM

any est. when it's going to be reopened?

They're waiting for Mike Holmes to show up. :badpokerface:

ShadowBun

12-20-2012, 01:27 PM

lol really? interesting

didnt keep a eye on update

JKam

12-20-2012, 01:33 PM

Then you just put down another layer of nets, and so forth!

Heated nets. Like heated seats.

Who needs engineers when we have RS to solve problems? :badpokerface:

StylinRed

12-20-2012, 11:03 PM

2 articles, liberal reaction

Province demands Port Mann Bridge be fixed
Province says contractor should pay for safety changes
Jason Howe

SURREY (NEWS1130) – The province is telling the contractor of the Port Mann Bridge to “fix it.”

The BC government wants a solution to the ice bombs that fell on cars yesterday as they drove across the new bridge.

Transportation Minister Mary Polak says she was horrified to hear ice was shattering windshields of cars that crossed the bridge. “This was an absolutely unacceptable situation.”

Polak says she is asking for a permanent fix, but also an immediate solution. “We expected through the contract that they would be able to deliver on a bridge that would not see these accumulations of ice and snow, and certainly would not see them falling into lanes of traffic.”

Polak says the fix should not come at the cost of taxpayers.

Province demands Port Mann Bridge be fixed | News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2012/12/20/province-demands-port-mann-bridge-be-fixed/)

Minister blasts bridge firm after ice pelts down on cars, injures two people
Keven Drews

COQUITLAM, B.C. – British Columbia’s transportation minister has slammed the international contractor that built the newly-opened Port Mann Bridge, saying the forced closure of the span, only weeks after it opened, is an intolerable situation and that the firm should have been aware of potential problems.

More than 100 insurance claims were filed after chunks of ice pelted down onto vehicles from the bridge’s suspension cables during a snowstorm on Wednesday. Two people were injured and the bridge, which links the Vancouver area to populous southern suburbs, was closed for several hours.

“We will not live with the bridge in that way,” Mary Polak told a news conference.

“When you purchase a product in a store, when you build a bridge for $3.3 billion, you believe that it will work. You expect it will work. When it doesn’t work you seek for redress to that. You seek for someone to refund your money or you seek for someone to resolve the problem.”

Polak said that’s what the province will be doing.

“Taxpayers will not be on the hook for this and we will ensure that we have a bridge that is safe for the travelling public to use and that an event like this has a permanent solution to see that it doesn’t happen again.”

Polak said her ministry was “alive” to snow and ice being a potential problem on the bridge before it was built and there were specifications in the contract to address the concern.

“Clearly, what we saw yesterday shows that they did not meet those requirements.”

The bridge was built by Kiewit-Flatiron General Partnership. The company said in a statement it was working to figure out where the problem is and find a solution quickly.

“We’re very concerned about the recent weather issues impacting motorists on the Port Mann Bridge,” said the statement from Thomas Janssen, director of external affairs for the company.

“With the recent severe weather conditions, it’s evident there is an issue that needs to be closely reviewed and addressed.”

The Crown agency that operates the bridge will pay the deductibles of drivers whose vehicles were damaged in the incident. Tolls for travellers who crossed the bridge between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. Wednesday will also be waived.

Prof. Tom Brown, an engineering professor at the University of Calgary known to his students as Dr. Ice, said he’s confident the problem can be fixed.

Brown has worked on offshore oil rigs and Prince Edward Island’s Confederation Bridge and said sometimes, problems slip through despite the best work by experts.

“This is certainly a concern because I would kind of imagine that the conditions under which it occurred, the atmospheric conditions in Vancouver, could well occur again,” he said in an interview.

“I don’t know what the fix will be, but it’s certainly a fixable problem.”

Brown said cold weather, high humidity, precipitation and wind all play roles in allowing ice to form on the bridge cables and eventually fall off. The ice bonds to the cold cables and when the wind whips up, it starts a vibration on the cables that eventually knocks loose the ice.

Brown said Vancouver’s rapid temperature fluctuations from cold to warm can also break off heavy ice chunks as they begin to melt.

Last January, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge near Seattle was shut down due to falling ice from bridge cables on a Kiewit-built bridge.

Alice Fiman, a spokeswoman at the Washington state Department of Transportation, said the problem was called “weather-related” at the time.

Fiman said Kiewit completed construction on the twin suspension bridges in 2007, and since then the span has been closed only once due to falling ice.

Mike Proudfoot, CEO of the Transportation Investment Corporation which operates the bridge, said the bridge is a significant crossing, the second-longest cable-stayed bridge in North America.

Building it required a “certain expertise.”

“We have the best firms in the world engaged in the design and delivery of this project, both as the original designers and as the independent checkers.”

Proudfoot said provisions had been made to prevent such snow accumulations.

“It hasn’t transpired as expected,” he said.

Possible solutions to the problem include heating the cables, the use of vibrations or coatings, as well as manual and mechanical methods for removal.

“We expect some answers on that very shortly.”

The Port Mann Bridge opened eight lanes Dec. 1 and was touted to slash commute times of up to an hour for some people.

Cars and small trucks crossing the Port Mann are electronically assessed an introductory $1.50 toll, but the levy will rise to $3.00 per crossing by next December, with varied rates applying to larger trucks and motorists using special passes.

— With files from Dirk Meissner in Victoria

Minister blasts bridge firm after ice pelts down on cars, injures two people | News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2012/12/20/minister-blasts-bridge-firm-after-ice-pelts-down-on-cars-injures-two-people/)

alpinestars

12-20-2012, 11:47 PM

You left out one major factor: hindsight is 20/20.

There are dozens if not hundreds of bridges of this basic design (tower/cable stayed) in the world, some (many?) of them with cables over the roadway, most without. Some are in warmer climates, some colder; some will experience snow and ice, some won't. Most have been in operation for years if not decades.

In all that, with a collective dozens if not hundreds of winters behind the design, it's apparent that a situation like this, to this severity, has not happened before - if it had, the design would have been modified to mitigate the risks, a long time ago.

So here you have a very particular combination of design and weather events that have conspired to create a very specific set conditions, quite possibly for the first time *ever*... so they were supposed to have planned for this based on, what... experience?

It's easy for all the armchair engineers to look at it now and say, "duh, why didn't they think of that?".

Now hold on a minute, I don't want to start an argument, this will be my last post on the subject.

But step back and read what I wrote, then what you wrote for a second.

The very first thing I wrote in my post was that there would be a lot of data to consider before any decisions would be made. My post was meant to illustrate a general point of the variables and factors that would be placed into consideration. I didn't even make a claim to whether or not I believed this bridge's design is flawed.

In your post, if we read in between the lines, you're making a claim in defense of the bridge's design by saying in laymen's speak "there's a lot of these bridges in similar climates all over the world, there must be enough of these bridges to build up enough confidence to make an assumption that this design is not flawed, and we can not expect it to happen again in the future".

I think between you and I the only armchair engineer is yourself. I work closely with engineers, their spec, and design, and in my post I've simply shared an opinion into the extent of the analysis they would conduct for a problem like this, I've made no claims whatsoever. On the other hand you've made a claim that the bridge must be safe because there's probably lots of similar bridges built in similar environments all over the world (I'd definitely love to see this data, I would paypal you some extra cash to buy yourself something decent for the holidays. Show me the data and I'll show you the money)

You make a terrible armchair engineer by the way. Everything from the angle of the cables, the air pressure, humidity, seismic vibrations, etc, all of these variables cannot be exactly the same somewhere else in the world. That is absolute bullshit. And any combination of these variables could correlate to a greater chance of the ice forming. If they happen often enough, the bridge has a major design flaw. If it's just this one time, then it was bad luck that it had to happen right when the bridge opened up. But if you took the time to read and comprehend my fairly written post, you would see the only person acting as a failed armchair engineer between us is you.

Ride

12-20-2012, 11:52 PM

Deductibles from damage caused on the Port Mann yesterday will be waived. Also, no tolls will be charged from 10am -6pm.

As per Mike Proudfoot, TI CEO

I'm hoping they don't charge for using the Goldenears either since we had to use a alternative bridge. I crossed heading west while the the ice was falling and then 2 hours later going to langley they shut It down and traffic was forced into coquitlam. I'm gonna call and bitch

Mr.Money

12-20-2012, 11:55 PM

Final Destination 6..... :badpokerface:

fliptuner

01-10-2013, 07:33 PM

God damnit!!!

Just got an email that my Visa was charged $300 from treo. I've been over the bridge 4 times in 2 pre-registered vehicles. There's no way I owe them anything.

Also, apparently, 2 of my trucks are designated as medium vehicles, even though they meet the requirements for small vehicles (<6M and 2 axles). Fullsize, ext cab, shortbox.

Just got off the phone with them to get this straightened out and the CSR is telling me it might take a week to get the transaction reversed...a fucking week?

Soundy

01-11-2013, 06:19 AM

"More than 100 insurance claims were filed after chunks of ice pelted down onto vehicles from the bridge’s suspension cables during a snowstorm on Wednesday."

Who wants to bet that a good number of those are bogus, from people trying to cash in for other damages?

ICBC: "Ummm, sorry sir, but I don't think you're going to convince me the big, perfectly-round dent in your BACK bumper is from an ice bomb..."

radioman

01-11-2013, 07:01 AM

^at least they can confirm with treo if they were actually on the bridge during the time. Just need to know if it was an ice bomb :/

fliptuner

01-11-2013, 07:58 AM

Finally, some answers.

First, my trucks were designated in the wrong category, (medium vs. small), thus putting them at a higher cost.

Secondly, the person who registered the vehicles back in November, took it upon himself to also sign me up for monthly passes.

$300 = cost for monthly pass for medium vehicle.

Anyways, I got one truck in the correct size category (other one hasn't crossed yet) and waiting for the charges to be reversed. It's pretty obvious that I don't cross enough to warrant needing a monthly pass.

The CSR I talked to today actually had a clue what was going on and was very helpful. ICBC has 10 vehicle classifications, whereas trEo has 4. When trEo uses ICBC's database, sometimes the vehicles fall into the wrong category. So pay close attention to your crossing history and make sure your car's in the correct size category.

FYI, if you're a frequent user and sign up for a monthly pass, they're on introductory rates (small vehicles only) til the end of the month. $75/mo vs. $150/mo and you can get this price until October.

Gumby

01-11-2013, 09:00 AM

Finally, some answers.
... snip
I don't take the Port Mann bridge, so the information is irrelevant to me.

However, when someone takes the time to post up useful information, you deserve a thanks! :)

falcon

01-12-2013, 11:44 PM

I've crossed a bunch of times and nothing in my account online yet... ? I thought it would be fairly quick to update. First time I crossed was almost 3 weeks ago and yet nothing has shown up

jepho

01-12-2013, 11:54 PM

That's strange. I've crossed 3 times now and all 3 have shown up on my account. Only took a day or two to show up.

Yodamaster

01-13-2013, 12:44 AM

Weren't the cables supposed to be heated originally?

BMW M5

01-13-2013, 10:40 AM

Weren't the cables supposed to be heated originally?

I think there are around 280 cables...

bchydro would have to open a new sub station just to provide power for the cable warmers.:failed:

Yodamaster

01-13-2013, 01:00 PM

I think there are around 280 cables...

bchydro would have to open a new sub station just to provide power for the cable warmers.:failed:

That wasn't the question, but alright.

murd0c

01-13-2013, 01:03 PM

Weren't the cables supposed to be heated originally?

no they were not. They had some sort of spray on them that was supposed to prevent ice/snow build up and that of course didn't work.

Soundy

01-13-2013, 02:33 PM

Weren't the cables supposed to be heated originally?

Not exactly... according to the articles, that was considered as an available option and determined not to be worth the cost.

GabAlmighty

01-13-2013, 04:01 PM

flip what kind of truck do you have? I'm hoping I don't get charged as a medium..

fliptuner

01-13-2013, 04:48 PM

If your truck is under 6M long and only has 2 axles, it should be a small.

Mine is a fullsize Chev, ext. cab, shortbox. My other one (hasn't crossed yet) is a fullsized Dodge, ext. cab, longbox, dually. Both meet the requirements as small vehicles.

GabAlmighty

01-13-2013, 04:56 PM

fliptuner

01-13-2013, 05:19 PM

You can always call and have them change the designation. Have you crossed yet and been charged for a medium? Don't mention it's over length btw.

GabAlmighty

01-13-2013, 05:26 PM

You can always call and have them change the designation. Have you crossed yet and been charged for a medium? Don't mention it's over length btw.

Ya just checked, i'm getting charged correctly. And it's only $1.12 if you cross in the HOV lane weow!

fliptuner

01-13-2013, 05:49 PM

oh shit, totally HOVing it

hotjoint

01-14-2013, 07:09 AM

I've crossed a bunch of times and nothing in my account online yet... ? I thought it would be fairly quick to update. First time I crossed was almost 3 weeks ago and yet nothing has shown up

That's strange. I've crossed 3 times now and all 3 have shown up on my account. Only took a day or two to show up.

Mine registered right away

MG1

01-14-2013, 08:21 AM

oh shit, totally HOVing it

Bringing out the ol' inflate-a-mate, eh? :haha:

GLOW

01-14-2013, 08:44 AM

Weren't the cables supposed to be heated originally?

i heard the engineer had it written in the spec to ensure the bridge had a means to adequately deal with snow/ice and the contractor interpreted it as to use the spray stuff as it would be the cheaper option.

hotjoint

01-21-2013, 08:03 AM

Looks like I didn't get tolled for making my way back into surrey yesterday. it was really foggy coming back so maybe I got lucky. I was tolled on the way out of surrey though. Looking here at my treo account. I didn't see that the $30 credit we have has an expiration date. It say "Any unused credit will expire May 31, 2013". Was that always there? I just noticed it.

Traum

01-21-2013, 08:12 AM

^^ Yup, the free credits' expiration date was always there since day 1. It's just that it was shown in small print somewhere.

inv4zn

01-21-2013, 08:13 AM

^That was always there.

Soundy

01-21-2013, 10:36 AM

Local News Story - CKNW AM 980: News. Talk. Sports. (http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx?ID=1867873)

Engineers devise plan to combat Port Mann "ice-bombs"
VANCOUVER/CKNW (AM980)

1/21/2013

Engineers working on the Port Mann bridge have come up with some solutions to hopefully prevent any more "ice-bombs" from forming on the cables and falling onto vehicles on the bridge deck below.

A custom-designed cable sweeper will be fitted onto the cables, removing snow and ice before it can build up.

The sweepers will be installed on all 152 cables crossing the roadway.

Engineers have also identified a de-icing solution that can be sprayed on the cables if need be.
More than 250 claims came in to ICBC after ice bombs fell on vehicles mid-December.

250 now? Why does this number seem to keep going up over a month later? :suspicious:

Graeme S

01-21-2013, 11:05 AM

Local News Story - CKNW AM 980: News. Talk. Sports. (http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx?ID=1867873)

250 now? Why does this number seem to keep going up over a month later? :suspicious:
People delaying calling in claims; injuries related to accidents which were not initially considered to be part of the ice-bombs, and quite probably an inflation of the numbers by including the Alex Fraser ice bombs along with the Port Mann.

StylinRed

01-21-2013, 11:06 AM

i read 250 about a week after it happened i think

edit: nope it was "over 100"

but yeah what graeme said

Soundy

01-21-2013, 04:06 PM

People delaying calling in claims; injuries related to accidents which were not initially considered to be part of the ice-bombs, and quite probably an inflation of the numbers by including the Alex Fraser ice bombs along with the Port Mann.
Yeah, because so many people didn't notice the big spiderweb in their windshields until three weeks later. :okay:

I think it's more because a lot of people think they're going to get other damage covered by claiming it as "ice bombs". Expect a press release from ICBC in about six months about all the "attempted fraud" cases.

6o4_dc

01-21-2013, 04:18 PM

wrong thread

Cr33pUh

01-21-2013, 04:21 PM

Ice build up solution. Taxpayers aren't on the hook apparently :thumbs:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=389917611099026

StylinRed

01-21-2013, 05:12 PM

Local News Story - CKNW AM 980: News. Talk. Sports. (http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx?ID=1867873)

250 now? Why does this number seem to keep going up over a month later? :suspicious:

CBC news just said 350 claims

and said ICBC is checking toll information to see if those drivers were on the bridge

Soundy

01-21-2013, 06:33 PM

CBC news just said 350 claims

and said ICBC is checking toll information to see if those drivers were on the bridge

That should eliminate quite a few... shouldn't take more than a cursory inspection of the cars to eliminate a lot more. Your average estimator is a lot brighter than most people realize - like cops, they have lots of experience, have seen it all, and have heard all the excuses twice.

You'd be amazed some of the shit people try to put over on them. Was talking to one once, said a guy tried to claim he came out to his car and found a bunch of damage from someone ramming a shopping cart into it... yeah, except the damage also had clearly visible concrete powder in the gouges, from scraping it across something like a light-pole base or jersey barrier or other stationary heavy object. Estimator called him on it on-the-spot and the guy fessed up.

RRxtar

01-21-2013, 09:41 PM

^ and then the guy went home, signed online on RS, and made a thread about how ICBC screwed him.

fliptuner

01-22-2013, 02:50 PM

Finally got my refund..... 2 fucking weeks later.

Got the supervisor go above the accounting and billing departments heads, just to get me off their back. Stupid that they've been getting so much shit publicity lately and wouldn't just make every attempt to handle the situation more expeditiously, instead of keeping me hanging for so long.

Huge waste of my time and not even an offer of extra credits or anything for wasting my time. Way to handle business.

GLOW

01-22-2013, 03:21 PM

Local News Story - CKNW AM 980: News. Talk. Sports. (http://www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx?ID=1867873)

:suspicious:
sounds like they're doing this

http://www.robotreviews.com/pics/roomba560.gif

ruthless

01-22-2013, 04:16 PM

Port Mann Bridge Cable Sweeper - YouTube
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Screen-shot-2013-01-21-at-11.45.39-PM.png

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2013/01/solution-found-for-port-mann-bridges-ice-bombs-problem/

Gridlock

01-23-2013, 07:51 AM

That should eliminate quite a few... shouldn't take more than a cursory inspection of the cars to eliminate a lot more. Your average estimator is a lot brighter than most people realize - like cops, they have lots of experience, have seen it all, and have heard all the excuses twice.

You'd be amazed some of the shit people try to put over on them. Was talking to one once, said a guy tried to claim he came out to his car and found a bunch of damage from someone ramming a shopping cart into it... yeah, except the damage also had clearly visible concrete powder in the gouges, from scraping it across something like a light-pole base or jersey barrier or other stationary heavy object. Estimator called him on it on-the-spot and the guy fessed up.

I can see it now...oh shit! you people can do that?

Nah, you know what...I'll just go with it. Pretend you never saw me!

GabAlmighty

01-25-2013, 03:54 PM

Solution found for Port Mann Bridge ice bombs problem | Vancity Buzz | Vancouver Blog (http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2013/01/solution-found-for-port-mann-bridges-ice-bombs-problem/)

Holy f'ing tits that's overkill.

falcon

01-26-2013, 03:49 PM

I think that's a very clever solution to a problem that seems to have no other fix. I'd imagine they would go very slowly and constantly when it is snowing/sleeting.

On a related note, when it's raining does anyone else notice how big giant rain drop accumulations hit your windsheild pretty hard? I noticed this my first crossing but I never thought that it would turn into something much worse when it was snow instead of rain.

melloman

01-28-2013, 07:35 AM

I think that's a very clever solution to a problem that seems to have no other fix.

Meh, there's lots of fixes.

I figure each cable is made up of 100's of smaller cables all wound together, but I'm not sure whether they are encased in a pipe or just have a sleeve overtop. If they were in a sort of pipe, easiest way to solve this problem would've been to add heat tracing to each cable.. :badpokerface:

Fuck a custom design sweeper. =/

Gridlock

01-28-2013, 09:08 AM

GLOW

01-28-2013, 09:16 AM

Meh, there's lots of fixes.

I figure each cable is made up of 100's of smaller cables all wound together, but I'm not sure whether they are encased in a pipe or just have a sleeve overtop. If they were in a sort of pipe, easiest way to solve this problem would've been to add heat tracing to each cable.. :badpokerface:

Fuck a custom design sweeper. =/

That would be where I'd go in a solution. Because we all know that the true solution to a problem for the next 100 years is....moving parts.

heat trace/snow melt solutions would be great and probably the most obvious. i'm guessing why they're not going that route is because of up front cost. i wonder if the roomba solution is cheaper and by how much...actually seems pretty creative after looking at it... of course last thing we need now are little metal robots dropping from 100' up on to cars :badpokerface:

falcon

01-28-2013, 12:08 PM

And because the bridge and cables are already built. Way to be realistic, guys...

SpuGen

01-28-2013, 07:01 PM

Uhh. Couldn't they just coat it in Teflon for next to nothing? (In comparison)

Some Engineers don't deserve thier job. The engineers at my job are just as bad, and they're a huge engineering firm.
We had some frame/bases that needed to be sent out to be galvanized. Not a single one of them figured out that it gets dipped, and the design had huge flaws where the shit would pool into cavities. Long story short, 2 re-designs, and triple the amount of prep/welding/finishing hours.

They call it : "Engineering Oversight"
We call it : Overpaid dogfuckers

Soundy

01-28-2013, 08:26 PM

Uhh. Couldn't they just coat it in Teflon for next to nothing? (In comparison)
And how much does it cost to regularly maintain and re-do that coating? How much would it cost to constantly inspect it for damage? What happens when damage is missed and ice manages to build up and fall off again?

As far as the heated cables, you'll recall it was mentioned that that idea was originally considered and rejected for cost vs. risk concerns. Cheaper to implement? Maybe. Cheaper to operate? Have you SEEN the cost of electricity these days? Consider the size and length of the cables, and the sheer number of them, you're talking a dedicated substation to run them. Remember that there's a sheath around them, so you have to run the heaters high enough to penetrate that. It's not anywhere near the same thing as wrapping a little heat tape around your outside faucets at home.

While everyone is getting all wiggy about the cost of the solution, keep in mind that the builder is responsible to cover it. It comes out of their profits. You don't think if the other options were cheaper in the long run they would have gone with something else? Remember that they have to take care of the ongoing operating costs of this solution, so they would have necessarily looked at how much the solution would cost them over the next 20 years (or however long the maintenance contract is), not just whatever is the cheapest to install.

MG1

01-28-2013, 08:41 PM

On Friday, I received an e-mail notification from TReO that I owed them 86 bucks. I didn't think anything of it until I checked the statement. I found some major errors. I got overcharged. Not only that, I was not qualified for the 20 free trips ($30.00 credit). I signed up before the dealine and even did so in person, so I should have gotten the freebie.

According to them, I did not provide them with credit card info. Since no CC info, no freebie.

I recall, when signing up, giving the person behind the counter my credit card. Anyway, I was not getting anywhere with the person answering the phone, so I went in today to give them the "what for".

I had to speak to a supervisor. Dude was very polite and apologetic, so I kept my calm. There have been cases where the person taking the info forgets or neglects to check off a box on one of the screens. If this hapens, all CC info does not get saved. Long story short, I got them to give me the $30.00 credit and adjust the overcharges.

After I got that all taken care of, I asked the guy what the laser was for. It's there to detect height and length of the vehicle. This explains why my radar detector only goes off once in a while and not all the time. The supervisor also admitted that they had issues with the laser system and they are working on fixing it. When it is raining hard and the road is soaking wet, the laser picks up the overspray (for lack of a better word) from the vehicle, making it seem like the vehicle is longer than it really is. I guess this is why my little sub compact becomes a truck, LOL.

fliptuner

01-28-2013, 11:52 PM

At least they were able to get you sorted out fairly quickly. My matter took 2 bloody weeks.

Did you talk to the guy with the Irish accent? Sean? He's the one who got my account sorted out.

MG1

01-29-2013, 04:59 AM

At least they were able to get you sorted out fairly quickly. My matter took 2 bloody weeks.

Did you talk to the guy with the Irish accent? Sean? He's the one who got my account sorted out.

Perhaps............ very calm and quiet fellow with a heavy accent of some kind. I thought it was a French accent, but then I couldn't tell an Aussie from an Austrian, LOL.

UFO

01-29-2013, 07:03 AM

So with the ice bomb issue, I read somewhere that this also happened on the Alex Fraser, but it obviously received little attention since that bridge is old-assed and didn't cost a bajillion dollars. Can anybody confirm this?

And obviously the Alex Fraser isn't going to be getting the cable scrapers. Did cars who got damaged on the Alex Fraser also get their deductible waived?

melloman

01-29-2013, 07:09 AM

Alex Fraser did have the same issue.. but i think it was only 2-3 cars..

Alex Frasers cables run parallel to the roadway, and do not cross over it. Thus the ice bombs for Alex Fraser would have to get East-West running wind to push them onto the roadway or else they'll just fall onto the sidewalk/over the edge.

Soundy

01-29-2013, 07:14 AM

So with the ice bomb issue, I read somewhere that this also happened on the Alex Fraser, but it obviously received little attention since that bridge is old-assed and didn't cost a bajillion dollars. Can anybody confirm this?
Like melloman said, the main difference is that the cables there don't hang over the roadway.

But yes, there's also the fact that it's not a shiny new uber-pricey toll bridge and thus nobody flips out about it when it does happen.

blkgsr

01-29-2013, 09:30 AM

they've already started installing the scrapers

GLOW

01-30-2013, 07:08 AM

We call it : Overpaid dogfuckers

first time i've heard of an engineer described as overpaid. i'll have to tell that one to my friend next time i see him :lawl:

BMW M5

01-30-2013, 08:20 AM

they've already started installing the scrapers

yeah, and cost is still unknown...:okay:

mb_

01-30-2013, 08:47 AM

yeah, and cost is still unknown...:okay:

Who cares won't cost tax payers anything.. or so they say lol
Posted via RS Mobile

GLOW

01-30-2013, 09:18 AM

the cost should be covered by the contractor should it not?

BMW M5

01-30-2013, 11:27 AM

Who cares won't cost tax payers anything.. or so they say lol
Posted via RS Mobile

Yeah, the government never lies. They are very honest ppl...lol

the cost should be covered by the contractor should it not?

it depends on how the contract was written, but the public will most likely never find out.

falcon

01-30-2013, 12:29 PM

Theres a little something called freedom of information. Given it's a tax funded project the information will be there. We don't live in Soviet Russia.

Soundy

01-30-2013, 08:32 PM

Given it's a tax funded project...
It's not, actually. That's what the tolls are for. You remember the tolls? I can see why you might have forgotten about the tolls, they're never talked about or covered in the media or anything. :ahwow:

MG1

02-24-2013, 10:44 AM

I'm starting to hate TReO. I went there for the third time yesterday, because their billing system made errors. The second time I went, it was because my second vehicle did not get the 20 free trips promo. You'd figure after the first time, they would automatically give me the free trips for all the vehicles under my name, as stated in their promo blurb.

They are still dinging me for my vehicles being longer than they are. First time I wish I was shorter, LOL.

Presto

03-12-2013, 01:53 PM

RCMP cracking down on drivers trying to evade bridge tolls
Drivers get creative, using a variety of methods to cover their plates

LOWER MAINLAND (NEWS1130) – Drivers are getting creative in evading bridge tolls, but RCMP say they’re keeping watch.

The most common way to trick toll cameras is installing clear plastic plate covers, which are sold at many hardware stores. They may be transparent to the naked eye, but can obscure cameras used on toll bridges for billing purposes.

RCMP Corporal Bruce Robertson says anyone caught driving with the covers will get a hefty ticket for over $190. They’re actually illegal.

“We stop the vehicle and [plastic covers] get removed, because it is an infraction on the Motor Vehicle Act to have them.”

But that’s not the only way drivers are evading tolls. Commuters say trucks are also pulling down plastic covers over their licence plates, and others have even removed their front plates completely.

“It was a brand new pick-up truck that had its tailgate down. So I inched my way past him and looked over, and sure enough, he didn’t have his licence plate on,” says a caller to News1130 who witnessed a driver avoiding his licence plates being snapped by bridge cameras.

Robertson reminds drivers they must have two licence plates, clearly displayed on both the front and rear of their cars
source: RCMP cracking down on drivers trying to evade bridge tolls | News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2013/03/12/rcmp-cracking-down-on-drivers-trying-to-evade-bridge-tolls/comment-page-1/#comments)