[kkttsang]

Hi guys yup this is another one of those which would you pick thread.
Just wanting to see what you guys would take.
both are the same price.

07 CPO 328i sedan
Pros: its a BMW, has extra 2 yrs of warranty
Cons: maintenance costs, 33000km on it, could be less reliable

2011 accord coupe (not V6)
Pros: brand new car, reliable, cheap maintenance, full warranty
Cons: can't think of much, less power, not as good in handling

i plan to have this car for maybe 7 yrs and gas mileage not a concern, but i do want a car that wont break down on me. But on the other hand 328i is fun to drive. so i'm having difficulty deciding, just want to hear what you guys think?

Thanks

[Not really racist!]

If your only con for the accord is, "not a bmw" then why bother? It seems you're more inclined on the brand.

[EmperorIS]

everyone on this forum is gonna say the bmw because they are 16 years old and have no idea how the world works ...

is the accord coupe V6? if it is .. go with the accord.. its fast enough and good on maintenance .. FWD.. probably save you money on snow tires for a few winters.. and you can at least drive it in snow without snow tires

if you can afford the maintenance that is to come with getting a BMW then by all means go for the BMW... but nothing beats getting a brand new car :)

and don't forget your planning to keep this car for 7 years ... cost sure adds up and think of the resale value

[ilvtofu]

You might be able to find a 328i coupe under 30 and definitely find a lot of sedans under 30. My dad had an 07 x3 which uses a similar drivetrain and it was bulletproof, good on gas, and fast. On the other hand we also had an 05 TL with a similar drivetrain as the V6 accord coupe and that had very poor fuel economy and something about the CV joints just made the car feel weird.

I believe consumer reports recommends the 3 for it's reliability, not sure about the accord

IMO the 3 coupe looks a hell of a lot better than the accord coupe and 7 years down the road will at least LOOK a lot newer. It's one of those styles that no one could hate.
If awd is important to you or if you care about driving then it's a no brainer, go with the bmw

EDIT: Forgot to add that the BMW warranty is very very good never paid a cent for anything over the lease on the x3. If you can extend it on top of the CPO even better.

[kkttsang]

the cons for accord i said not a BMW doesn't mean im incline to the brand if so then i would not have put the accord up for comparison.
it is just that there are not many cons for an accord but just the fact that it doesn't drive as fun as a BMW.
so it boils down to the question do i want fun or reliability i guess

[!Yaminashi]

I'd always opt for reliability. Thats just me

Seems like you want the bmw, but dont want to deal with maintenance costs :troll:

[Dragon-88]

reliability all the way!!!

[Pumbaa]

Get the BMW ! Because when you drive the bimmer, you wont even look at other Accords.

[orange7]

I think their reliability really comes down to how you take care of it once it's in your hands.

[kkttsang]

hahayea if the maintenance cost for the BMW was lower my decision would be much easier :)

[marc0lishuz]

Dumbest reason to not own an Accord is that it's not a BMW. Another dumb reason is to think that FWD is not fun to drive. Tons of people have LOTS of fun with FWD cars. Personally, I think the new Accords are styled nicer than the 3-Series too.

If you want reliability, cheap maintenance, cheap on gas, I'd go with the Accord. If all you want is the brand, then obviously go for the BMW.

[orange7]

hahayea if the maintenance cost for the BMW was lower my decision would be much easier :)

just don't go to the stealership for the maintenance for the bmw

[ilvtofu]

Dumbest reason to not own an Accord is that it's not a BMW. Another dumb reason is to think that FWD is not fun to drive. Tons of people have LOTS of fun with FWD cars. Personally, I think the new Accords are styled nicer than the 3-Series too.

If you want reliability, cheap maintenance, cheap on gas, I'd go with the Accord. If all you want is the brand, then obviously go for the BMW.

If you think the difference is only in the brand you really need to drive more cars.

[dkvby]

+1 BMW, The BMW just handles alot better than the Accord

[kkttsang]

actually how much are BMW maintenance, i know the oil change at BJ autohause or other non dealer shop are around 120-140 but what other maintenance costs are there? and usually oil change for BMW are longer intervals than other cars too right? anyone here shed some light on these questions?

[jmanhas]

i believe OP is looking at a 328i sedan? not the coupe.
But if i were to pick between the two, i'd probably go with an older 2008/2009 Honda Accord V6 coupe
Same car, cheaper price, and also Honda's are generally very reliable.
It definitely looks very sleek

[marc0lishuz]

If you think the difference is only in the brand you really need to drive more cars.

Those were the OP's choices, not mine. And yes, I'm very well aware of the other differences (I hinted at them in my comparison).

[kkttsang]

Dumbest reason to not own an Accord is that it's not a BMW. Another dumb reason is to think that FWD is not fun to drive. Tons of people have LOTS of fun with FWD cars. Personally, I think the new Accords are styled nicer than the 3-Series too.

If you want reliability, cheap maintenance, cheap on gas, I'd go with the Accord. If all you want is the brand, then obviously go for the BMW.

i didnt say accord wasn't fun to drive just not as fun as a BMW, im sure the accord is fun to drive too.

[Energy]

If its the same price then go with the BMW. My sister had one awhile back and it feels really good to drive. The difference in handling and smoothness of power delivery are way different between the 3 series and the Accord. Sure the Accord V6 may have more horsepower but the BMW is just a pleasure to drive.

If you don't care at all about how it drives and just want a commuter appliance then either is ok.

edit: ok, oops you said not the accord v6. in that case 328i all the way.

[EmperorIS]

don't listen to these idiots about how BMW handles better then accord... unless your tracking or racing the car ... it doesn't mean shit

[tegz]

u will find that the bmw out-does just about everything the accord can do, with the exception of space.

RWD bad on snow? get snow tires.

[ilvtofu]

u will find that the bmw out-does just about everything the accord can do, with the exception of space.

RWD bad on snow? get snow tires.

I'm not sure about trunk space but I found the 3coupes rear to be very impressive, I'm about 5'10" and my buddy who was 6" fit very comfortably behind my seat in the 3, With the accord and the genesis he was hitting the roof from the rear seat. He ended up getting a MKVI Gti though lol

[Energy]

don't listen to these idiots about how BMW handles better then accord... unless your tracking or racing the car ... it doesn't mean shit

RWD and FWD feel very different when you corner. Doesn't matter if you're cornering fast or just taking it easy, there is a difference. FWD is sloppier going around corners and you'll definitely notice it right away.

[tegz]

I'm not sure about trunk space but I found the 3coupes rear to be very impressive, I'm about 5'10" and my buddy who was 6" fit very comfortably behind my seat in the 3, With the accord and the genesis he was hitting the roof from the rear seat. He ended up getting a MKVI Gti though lol

from my family having owned both cars, the 3 series rear and trunk space feel tiny compared to an accord....

[Mancini]

Another dumb reason is to think that FWD is not fun to drive. Tons of people have LOTS of fun with FWD cars.

Tons of guys hook up with other dudes, too. It doesn't mean he's inclined to do it.

FWD can be fun, yes. But it's still a far cry from the handling of a well sorted rwd car like the BMW.

Personally, I'd buy the Accord due to the long-term cost of ownership.

[ilvtofu]

from my family having owned both cars, the 3 series rear and trunk space feel tiny compared to an accord....

If you are comparing sedan to sedan I definitely agree, as a 4 seater coupe however you will see me climbing into the back of a 328 over the accord any day. The sedan has bulging rear wheel wells or something that just pushes into the interior and makes it very uncomfortable

I believe the accord has the middle seat belt making it a 5 seater though which is a plus.

[dhari]

you should compare the insurance costs as well.

ps. i have a 07 328 coupe and my thermostat and waterpump died in october. it costs me around $1300(including labour) to replace them. apparently this is a rare occurrence but it happened and i was quite surprised at the costs.

[Energy]

Isn't that covered under the 4 year warranty? Thats a big hit if you paid that out of pocket.

[dhari]

Isn't that covered under the 4 year warranty? Thats a big hit if you paid that out of pocket.

warranty ended in june:cry:

[AccordCouped]

08 accord coupe owner here.. so i have to say the accord..

[d1]

08 accord coupe owner here.. so i have to say the accord..

very insightful bro

[donjalapeno]

my dad has X3 too and it is just soooo dope too drive. The straight 6 engines and the drivetrains are out of this world, theres NO way you can compare a Accord to a 328i. Get the BMW and bring it into a bmw dealership too see if you can get it certified, if they say everything is good then take good care of it and it will last you a lifetime. BMWs are reliable if you treat them well and im talking from experience.

My cousin (male) bought a brand new 330i with M sport package and he didnt take care of the car at all, he kept cheaping out on maitenace and he brought the car to sketchy and cheap places for everything and his driving style was very aggresive. That being said after two years when the car hit 40000k it started falling apart.

My cousin (female) bought a X3 with 40000k and she took good care of it and took the time to bring it too the dealership for everything. And the car is still running well it has 160k now ( she drives to cali alot) she couldnt be happier.

Get the BMW and be happy for the next 7 years, because i know for a fact that whenever you take a corner you will have a smile on your face everytime. Jump at the chance to own the Ultimate Driving Machine.

and are you married? if not BMW can help :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QR0M91_cyw

[SuperSlowSS]

3 series without sport package to me is just average... nothing special.
But add the sport package, now you have the best handling sedan in the world. Nobody can match it. Just awesome car to drive...as long as the road isn't bumpy. :)
I am also not a fan of the 328 auto transmission... nothing like the ZF found on 335i.(It drives like manual)

[asian_XL]

stop complaining about reliability, how many of you actually own a 3 series? and do know how much you need to pay for repairing? Pretty much all BMW owners (including the c-lais and uncles) I know in my life never complain about how much they pay. Either it is pretty much maintenance free or they think every penny that was spent is worthy.

After adding up all the repair bills we paid for our 95 E36 with 160K, it's around 6g (excl all the mod parts), which was reasonable for a 11 yrs car, $550 a year is not bad for a 90s German car.

If you care about interior and trunk space, you need to get a wagon or dodge minivan.
If you care about getting girls, get a mini cooper

[too_slow]

The leatherette on the entry level Bimmers are terrible. I also notice that the standard seats are very flat with very little support. IMHO, the sport seats are a must. Why don't you compromise on the two and find a 2007-2009 TSX? Honda reliability, with just the right amount of 'luxury'.. ?

[PK-EK]

BMW = Cooling system problems.. be preparied to replace the water pump at least...

Honda all the way

IMHO, German cars are not worth buying.. cost too much to maintain

Your accord is going to have full warranty.
the BMW will only have 2 years remaining

[Mancini]

BMWs are reliable if you treat them well and im talking from experience.

My cousin (male) bought a brand new 330i with M sport package and he didnt take care of the car at all, he kept cheaping out on maitenace and he brought the car to sketchy and cheap places for everything and his driving style was very aggresive. That being said after two years when the car hit 40000k it started falling apart.


You're contradicting yourself here. A car should not fall apart at 40k even if you do nothing more than a couple of oil changes during that time.

[ilvtofu]

The leatherette on the entry level Bimmers are terrible. I also notice that the standard seats are very flat with very little support. IMHO, the sport seats are a must. Why don't you compromise on the two and find a 2007-2009 TSX? Honda reliability, with just the right amount of 'luxury'.. ?

They don't feel like the nappa leather but I can GUARANTEE you this, the leatherette after 5 years will look brand new and requires no maintenance, Leather in 5 years shows significant wear and tear


BMW = Cooling system problems.. be preparied to replace the water pump at least...

Honda all the way

IMHO, German cars are not worth buying.. cost too much to maintain

Your accord is going to have full warranty.
the BMW will only have 2 years remaining

Not worth buying because of higher maintenance costs?
http://images.memegenerator.net/Antoine-Dodson/ImageMacro/2288590/You-are-so-dumb-You-are-really-dumb-Fo-real.jpg

Seriously if all you're looking for in a car is low maintenance costs get off this forum

[donjalapeno]

You're contradicting yourself here. A car should not fall apart at 40k even if you do nothing more than a couple of oil changes during that time.

Did you not read the part where i said he CHEAPED out on scheduled maintenance therfore SKIPPING alot of important services and did you not read the part where he drove very aggresive ( redlined like it was nothing).

And by falling apart i mean 2nd gear kinda grinded, it had water pump problems and the oil would turn black really fast and it was starting to have electrical problems aswell.

it was one of these, it was lemans blue though.

[MindBomber]

A car looses 15-20% of its value per year, so buying a used BMW would be better value than by a brand new Accord.

Hondas are far from the most reliable cars in the world. I own a Civic and am very active on Honda forums, the past two Honda generations for most models haven't even remotely matched the quality of those built in the 90's.

[danizer]

BMW = Cooling system problems.. be preparied to replace the water pump at least...

Honda all the way

IMHO, German cars are not worth buying.. cost too much to maintain

Your accord is going to have full warranty.
the BMW will only have 2 years remaining

:troll:

[1-Slicer-1]

I was pretty much in the exact same situation as you. I came down to two choices, brand new fully loaded 09 Accord or e90 07 328i. Before the test drive, I was really leaning toward getting the Accord. I had driven a BMW before, but it did not have the sport package.

I took the BMW 328i with sport package for a test drive and I had made my decision within 30 seconds. The handling on the car is ridiculous.

I also prefer the leatherette over the real leather. Real leather goes through wear and tear really easily. People come into my car and are shocked when I tell them it's 5 years old.

Maintenance costs are not as much as people are making it out to be.
The one thing I will warn you about though is, this car SUCKS in the snow.
I REPEAT, THIS BMW WITHOUT X-DRIVE IS HORRIBLE IN THE SNOW!!!!!!!

[Energy]

Winter tires + sand or bricks in trunk should help when its snowing.

[1-Slicer-1]

Winter tires + sand or bricks in trunk should help when its snowing.

True, although not sure how much it will help.

To be honest with you, I haven't tried that, but only so I have an excuse to borrow my bro's a4 with quattro in the snow....nothing more fun than that.

[wstce92]

True, although not sure how much it will help.

To be honest with you, I haven't tried that, but only so I have an excuse to borrow my bro's a4 with quattro in the snow....nothing more fun than that.

I had a e92 328i and with snow tires and some weight in the trunk it was fine. I have a e92 335i now, and same thing, with snow tires, no problems.

[1-Slicer-1]

I had a e92 328i and with snow tires and some weight in the trunk it was fine. I have a e92 335i now, and same thing, with snow tires, no problems.

Nice, don't tell my brother though, kthnxbai.

[Euro7r]

People that drive Bimmers, gas and maintenance cost are the least of your concern since you are able to afford a Bimmer already. If you own a Bimmer and bitching about ridiculous costs here and there, then drive something else.

[asian_XL]

Real BMW owners read Bimmer forums. So they know problems from other owners before the parts actually break down, and know where to shop for cheap quality parts.

For example, changing the license plate bulb is a bitch and will cause you $50 for the bulb and $100 for labour at dealership. Read the fucking tutorial online takes you 15 minutes and 30 minutes with a screw driver to swap the bulb out.

Another example, interior headliners and pillar panels rattling? instead of whinning like a bitch online saying BMW quality sucks crap, simply pry the panel out then replace the broken clip you can buy at homedepot for 25cents.

again, it's those people who have never own a bmw complains about the reliability most of the time.

[Fappin]

A buddy of mine who works at Brian Jessel says E90 BMWs are very unreliable due to the fact that they carry a lot of electronics which drains the battery fast. He gets a lot of BMWs towed in because of dead batteries. I'd go for the Accord.

[orange7]

A buddy of mine who works at Brian Jessel says E90 BMWs are very unreliable due to the fact that they carry a lot of electronics which drains the battery fast. He gets a lot of BMWs towed in because of dead batteries. I'd go for the Accord.

cause he works at a bmw stealership shop. I don't think perfectly fine bmw would go there for tea party.

make some friends as a honda stealership shop.

I think the quality of bmw and honda are on par. You gotta calculated the percentage of electronic breakdown from the total amount of electronics in the car.

I can't really backup what i'm saying here since I've never owned a bmw, but I do own an acura/honda. So i know half the statistics.

[cheapskate]

Accord.

New car + honda reliablity + cheaper maintenance = FTW

The BMW is definitely the cooler car though.

[CharlieH]

honestly... reliability depends on how you take care of the damn car. if you redline it on a cold start coming out of your driveway every morning then yeah, somethings probably gonna fuck up. take care of the car and it will take care of you.

i've driven both cars, and if driving pleasure matters at all to you then i suggest you take the 328.

[Dinan3]

Maybe you should think about getting extended warranty? I would take the 328i coupe for sure. Cannot beat the styling and driving feel.

[too_slow]

^Werd.. just add an oem front lip + 335i 5spoke wheels and you're good to go

[?NR]

Extended warranty is a must if choosing the BMW, or if none avail look into getting aftermarket warranty such as coverage one or first canadian etc. You'll definitely reap the rewards of peace of mind.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Tapioca]

BMW drivetrains, at least the NA engines, are rock solid with regular maintenance. German electronics aren't as good, but if a sensor wears out, you will still be able to get home. When you do need to do maintenance, you could always take the car to Nixon, BJ Autohaus, German Auto Sports, etc. and save about 20-40/hour in labour charges. I imagine most Honda dealers charge well over 100/hour in labour too, so you won't really save that much money over the long run. For basic maintenance, like oil and coolant changes, you should still be able to do those yourself with a bit of research and getting your hands on a BMW service reset tool.

As far as driving feel and pleasure goes, there's no comparison between the Honda and BMW.

[kkttsang]

Thanks for all the feedbacks, seems like its a 50/50 split. will do more research before making the purchase, and sounds like i won't go wrong with either one. thanks

[asian_XL]

^ YOU should be the one who should test drive the cars.

[kkttsang]

^YES i will be of course but the drive of the car is not the only factor im basing my decision on as i mentioned in the OP i also wanted the RS opinion in terms of maintenance and reliability, and that a test drive will not be able to tell you.

[d1]

I had a e92 328i and with snow tires and some weight in the trunk it was fine. I have a e92 335i now, and same thing, with snow tires, no problems.

When the car has near 50/50 weight distribution, wouldn't adding weight to the rear just make things worse? I figured the extra weight in the rear would only help if it's a pickup truck or something that has all the weight in the front.

[asian_XL]

what's the physic and logic here that adding some weight will help traction?

a E92 weight like 1800lb at the back, by adding 100lb will not make things any better. It might even fuck up the tire traction when your rear wheels are like /===\

[Noizz]

what's the physic and logic here that adding some weight will help traction?

a E92 weight like 1800lb at the back, by adding 100lb will not make things any better. It might even fuck up the tire traction when your rear wheels are like /===\

+1 Most people don't think that physics works 3 dimensionally.

If you add 100lb to the back of your car, sure you would be adding traction at a stand still. However think about when you try to stop, you're adding more weight in the rear and when you brake the weight transfer from the rear to the front will increase. Therefore a change in the dynamics of your car, more stress on the front brakes, less braking traction as a result, possibly reducing the effectiveness your traction control.

Although it may not be significant, the pros and cons of adding sand bags in your car are quickly nullified, so why do it in the first place?

[1-Slicer-1]

When the car has near 50/50 weight distribution, wouldn't adding weight to the rear just make things worse? I figured the extra weight in the rear would only help if it's a pickup truck or something that has all the weight in the front.

what's the physic and logic here that adding some weight will help traction?

a E92 weight like 1800lb at the back, by adding 100lb will not make things any better. It might even fuck up the tire traction when your rear wheels are like /===\


I don't know what you guys are talking about. Isn't it really quite a simple concept?

It's a rear-wheel drive car and therefore the rear tires are what makes the car move....however, most of the weight is obviously at the front of the car as that is where all the heavy parts are....Add weight in the trunk to push the rear end down to allow for greater traction where the tires are actually spinning...

[Energy]

^ This. If you don't put weight then your rear tires will just spin. My friend has an RX-8 with all seasons and he did fine during that one week of snow with concrete blocks in his trunk.

Just be more careful when braking (you should be anyways if conditions are bad enough to need weight in the rear).

[asian_XL]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Isn't it really quite a simple concept?

It's a rear-wheel drive car and therefore the rear tires are what makes the car move....however, most of the weight is obviously at the front of the car as that is where all the heavy parts are....Add weight in the trunk to push the rear end down to allow for greater traction where the tires are actually spinning...

traction is about grip, not weight. A big fat motherfucker will still slip in a bathtub without suction bath mat, so do a skinny guy That's why people use chain to go up hill instead of carrying 200lb of load in the trunk.

another problem with heavy rear, think about swinging a hammer, it makes your car spins at corner even more.

http://www.spy-gadgets-vs-stupid-criminals.com/images/SafetySlogansSlipFallPolarBear.jpg

[Noizz]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Isn't it really quite a simple concept?

It's a rear-wheel drive car and therefore the rear tires are what makes the car move....however, most of the weight is obviously at the front of the car as that is where all the heavy parts are....Add weight in the trunk to push the rear end down to allow for greater traction where the tires are actually spinning...

^ This. If you don't put weight then your rear tires will just spin. My friend has an RX-8 with all seasons and he did fine during that one week of snow with concrete blocks in his trunk.

Just be more careful when braking (you should be anyways if conditions are bad enough to need weight in the rear).

Thats why your friend should get a set of winter tires and not all seasons. Again, you're adding weight to the rear. Please think about what happens when you need to stop the extra weight.

Again, from my previous post:

If you add 100lb to the back of your car, sure you would be adding traction at a stand still. However think about when you try to stop, you're adding more weight in the rear and when you brake the weight transfer from the rear to the front will increase. Therefore a change in the dynamics of your car, more stress on the front brakes, less braking traction as a result, possibly reducing the effectiveness your traction control.

More weight = more braking time
More braking time + slippery snow conditions = (can you figure out the rest?)

And like asian_XL said, think about if you step out of your line, not only are your more susceptible, you're making matters worse. Buy a pair of winter tires and stop looking for a quick fix.

[1-Slicer-1]

Thats why your friend should get a set of winter tires and not all seasons. Again, you're adding weight to the rear. Please think about what happens when you need to stop the extra weight.

Again, from my previous post:

If you add 100lb to the back of your car, sure you would be adding traction at a stand still. However think about when you try to stop, you're adding more weight in the rear and when you brake the weight transfer from the rear to the front will increase. Therefore a change in the dynamics of your car, more stress on the front brakes, less braking traction as a result, possibly reducing the effectiveness your traction control.

More weight = more braking time
More braking time + slippery snow conditions = (can you figure out the rest?)

And like asian_XL said, think about if you step out of your line, not only are your more susceptible, you're making matters worse. Buy a pair of winter tires and stop looking for a quick fix.

I don't think anybody said anything about a quick fix....the extra weight was suggested by somebody in addition to winter tires.

[Noizz]

I don't think anybody said anything about a quick fix....the extra weight was suggested by somebody in addition to winter tires.

Directed at the RX-8 with all seasons

[donjalapeno]

Thats why your friend should get a set of winter tires and not all seasons. Again, you're adding weight to the rear. Please think about what happens when you need to stop the extra weight.

Again, from my previous post:

If you add 100lb to the back of your car, sure you would be adding traction at a stand still. However think about when you try to stop, you're adding more weight in the rear and when you brake the weight transfer from the rear to the front will increase. Therefore a change in the dynamics of your car, more stress on the front brakes, less braking traction as a result, possibly reducing the effectiveness your traction control.

More weight = more braking time
More braking time + slippery snow conditions = (can you figure out the rest?)

And like asian_XL said, think about if you step out of your line, not only are your more susceptible, you're making matters worse. Buy a pair of winter tires and stop looking for a quick fix.

In snowy conditions people dont drive more than 30k, so theres really no point in arguing about braking time and what not. The fastest ive driven in the last snowfall was probably 40km/h because all the other cars were going that speed too.

However that being being said when the snow starts too melt and theres slush, thats the big problem and thats where snow tires come in play as long as you have good quality snow tires your good too go.

[d1]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Isn't it really quite a simple concept?

It's a rear-wheel drive car and therefore the rear tires are what makes the car move....however, most of the weight is obviously at the front of the car as that is where all the heavy parts are....Add weight in the trunk to push the rear end down to allow for greater traction where the tires are actually spinning...

Look at it in an extreme case. Lets say a car weighs 500lbs. Add 100lbs to the trunk and the rear becomes more planted but what happens to the front? It lifts up so that your front tires lose traction.

And also, most of the weight is not in the front in the case of the 3 series - it's called 50/50 distribution for a reason - 50% in the front, 50% in the rear.

[asian_XL]

acceleration = AWD snow tires > AWD all season tires > FWD snow tires > RWD snow tires > FWD all season > RWD heavy load = RWD all season

braking = any car with snow tires are equal > any car with all season tires > any car with all season tires + heavy load

cornering = AWD always better.


Look at it in an extreme case. Lets say a car weighs 500lbs. Add 100lbs to the trunk and the rear becomes more planted but what happens to the front? It lifts up so that your front tires lose traction.

And also, most of the weight is not in the front in the case of the 3 series - it's called 50/50 distribution for a reason - 50% in the front, 50% in the rear.


a 3 series weight around 3600lb; 1800 in the front, 1800 at the back. Adding 100lb will make it 1800 fr / 1900 fr = 49 : 51 :fuckyea:

[Mike Oxbig]

Just go for the 2011 accord

New car + honda reliablity + cheaper maintenance = FTW

[ilvtofu]

Just go for the 2011 accord

New car + honda reliablity + cheaper maintenance = FTW

:facepalm: If that is your reasoning you might as well tell OP to get a fit (Terrific car IMO but not what OP is looking for)

To OP: like some have said take it for a test drive. Lately I have been daily driving two cars a GL320 CDI and my dad's Venza V6 AWD because my brother needs my astra after he got in a car accident in his car. It amazes me how the GL feels way more composed in turns even though it ways over half a tonne more than the venza. Also power delivery just so much more satisfying even though it has less horsepower. And when you're talking about insulation and a solid feel I can't begin to stress what a piece of shit the venza feels like next to the gl. What I'm trying to say is in your test drive note how the power feels when you are turning/accelerating, how the car is composed over bumpy roads and the suspension noise, notice any rattles/squeaks and any hollow feel when you're on the highway. Note there is a difference between exhaust/engine noise, tire noise, and interior cabin noise.

IMO This is one of the reasons I generally avoid toyota/honda quality. We had a TL that was very new and the interior door panels/chair would squeaked a little when the car was rolling, and you feel like the car is flexing and whatnot. Same goes for the Venza, both these cars felt like they were falling apart the day they left the showroom. As far as initial quality/satisfaction which is what you'll be dealing with on a day to day basis I have yet to find a japanese import brand comparable to a german brand.

[Mancini]

And by falling apart i mean 2nd gear kinda grinded, it had water pump problems and the oil would turn black really fast and it was starting to have electrical problems aswell.


Why would skipping maintenance (which is really just oil changes during that time period) cause problems with the water pump and electrical system?

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

[ilvtofu]

Why would skipping maintenance (which is really just oil changes during that time period) cause problems with the water pump and electrical system?

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

I think he just means the guy wasn't taking care of his car in general, not just oil changes. Poor driving habits probably contributed.

[Mancini]

acceleration = AWD snow tires > AWD all season tires > FWD snow tires > RWD snow tires > FWD all season > RWD heavy load = RWD all season

braking = any car with snow tires are equal > any car with all season tires > any car with all season tires + heavy load


Re: Braking - this is correct in many situations but only partly true. Slowing down does not always require braking. When going down steep, slippery hills in my awd I'll gear down. It's amazing how well engine braking helps to keep you straight while the awd is actively managing the power.

[Mancini]

I think he just means the guy wasn't taking care of his car in general, not just oil changes. Poor driving habits probably contributed.

"My power window won't roll down - I must be driving my car too hard or not changing the oil frequently enough".

Sorry, no.

[Mancini]

As far as initial quality/satisfaction which is what you'll be dealing with on a day to day basis I have yet to find a japanese import brand comparable to a german brand.

You make a valid point here. A car that feels solid enhances the ownership experience a lot. I'd say it's even worth paying more to get.

[shawn79]

e46 m3 > e92 328i

[donjalapeno]

3311 posts later and he still hasnt discovered multi quote function.

[Tapioca]

e46 m3 > e92 328i

E30 > all non-M 3-series :D

Another thought on Hondas vs. Germans:

The reason why people say that Hondas are reliable is that you can get away with very little maintenance and the car will still run for a long time. I'll take my Integra as an example. The clutch hasn't been changed in 13 years and only over the last couple of year has the clutch started to go. I just changed the fuel filter last weekend and since I've owned (8 years) the car, it hadn't been changed at all. The power steering fluid hasn't been flushed in nearly a decade. I could go on.

However, on my dad's E36, the plastic radiator broke because the coolant wasn't changed regularly. German cars are reliable, but they're engineered with a different tolerance with respect to maintenance (i.e. they need to be maintained at regular intervals.)

[604nguyen]

BMW ftw
i own one, and will probably never go back to a japanese car

[asian_XL]

Why would skipping maintenance (which is really just oil changes during that time period) cause problems with the water pump and electrical system?

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

BMW has really shitty water pump, if you don' flush the system regularly, the water pump will clog and die. I was suggested to replace a E36 pump with a aftermarket pump and indeed it lasted forever.

I don't know what electrical system he's talking about. if a fail O2 sensor or burnt light bulbs or walky taillights, sure, it happens to everyone, but never encounter a serious one that the engine won't start.


Re: Braking - this is correct in many situations but only partly true. Slowing down does not always require braking. When going down steep, slippery hills in my awd I'll gear down. It's amazing how well engine braking helps to keep you straight while the awd is actively managing the power.

HAHA, I am assuming driving on a flat straight road.

[asian_XL]

a lot of people misunderstand the meaning of "I don't abuse my car, so my car should not have any problem" and "I take good care of my car, I know where it went wrong". Just like you think you eat healthy, doesn't mean you do throughout body check up every year.

heck, who doesn't know Honda is damn reliable, I used to own an Acura and we spent $0 on the engine and all mechanical parts. The fun of owning a BMW is that you can take it apart and drive it like it is actually yours. It is questionable how many people here actually love their cars and spend time with it. Who can raise their hand they change their own engine oil or flush the coolant nowadays? All I see on RS are only stereotype comments like "Honda is reliable, BMW gets chicks" that's all.

[Alphamale]

IMO This is one of the reasons I generally avoid toyota/honda quality.

Folks, that is why you buy a Chevy Astra...because it is just that good.

[ilvtofu]

Folks, that is why you buy a Chevy Astra...because it is just that good.

What's that?
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