[Gt-R R34]

So i've always been told to warm up your car, doesn't seem like the case, does anyone more car-inclined then me, confirm the story.

From Yahoo

Those of us who live in a four-season climate are used to the idea of allowing our vehicles to warm up on a cold winter's day. But with the technology in today's automobiles, is this still something we should be doing? The simple answer is no. For the most part, letting your vehicle idle for long periods of time in the cold is not only bad for the environment, but can cause serious damage to your engine and emission system.

In the past, most vehicles employed a carburetor to deliver fuel to the engine. Today, almost all cars, trucks and SUVs on the road use some form of electronic fuel injection. In a cold engine, the computer management system tells the fuel injectors to stay open longer allowing more fuel to flow into the engine in part to keep the engine running cool. Trying to warm up the engine at slightly above idle speed is actually doing the reverse and inviting additional problems.

Cold engines produce a much higher level of unburned hydrocarbons as fuel needs heat to burn efficiently. Even the best catalytic converter is unable to process 100 per cent while running at maximum temperature, so allowing the engine to idle for extended periods of time can start to clog the system.

In addition, spark plugs may also become plugged or dirty due to inefficient fuel burning. Older vehicles required regular maintenance, calling for spark plugs to be changed every 30,000 km. Today, almost all engines employ an electronic ignition system that requires spark plugs to be changed at intervals in the range of 100,000 km. An engine at idle for extensive periods of time could dramatically shorten the life of your plugs, causing you to spend hard-earned money on unnecessary service and maintenance.

A better approach is to start your vehicle and let it run for up to one minute before driving away. This will allow fluids to begin flowing through the engine and then warm up to efficient temperatures under normal driving conditions.

Should the temperature outside dip below freezing, allow a maximum of four to five minutes of idle time before driving away. This should be just enough time to clean off any snow or ice that may have accumulated on the windows. While you may not be warm as toast on the way into work or school, you will benefit by saving money at the pump and garage and by driving a vehicle that runs cleaner and more efficient for many years to come.

[ShyGuy]

I agree with the article. You don't really need to warm up the engine. Just don't drive hard until the engine is warmed up to normal operating temperatures.

When you just sit there and let the car idle your engine is warming up but all the other drivetrain related fluids remain cold. Just take it easy for the first 10-15 minutes from a cold start.
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[CanadaGoose]

Warming up isn't relevant for modern gas vehicles. It's practically an old wives tale

Modern car in the winter: turn it on, let it idle for 10-20 seconds to allow oil flow to all the major bearing surfaces, and drive smoothly and slowly (low rpm) till it reaches operating temp. Engine will warm up faster and more evenly. The only time you even want to let it warm up any longer is -10 or 15 or 20 or lower.

Only case I can ever see warming the car up for longer then that, is if you're going to reach your destination before the engine reaches operating temp, which is bad because condensation forms in the crank case. In this situation it wouldn't hurt to allow it to warm up longer before leaving.

[MindBomber]

I've seen many articles with these facts, so I've been allowing my engine to warm up for 1 minute before driving, but keeping the rpms below 2000 below fully warmed up.

[sonick]

I made a post about this last year, led to a huge debate; mainly due to people people not understanding the point and arguing that they like their cars warm when they get in, or people arguing for the sake of arguing saying they've been doing it all this time and their car still works.

Original post: http://www.revscene.net/forums/psa-dont-warm-t599044.html?t=599044

[CanadaGoose]

Should the temperature outside dip below freezing, allow a maximum of four to five minutes of idle time before driving away. This should be just enough time to clean off any snow or ice that may have accumulated on the windows.

One thing to point out - in the winter, most people get in their car, turn it on, and then blast their heat and fan right away! NONONO not only is it blowing cold air, it will actually take your car longer to heat up that way. Turn it to windshield defrost, turn the fan to the lowest setting, and keep it there till the engine starts to heat up.

[PJ]

^this man speaks the truth.

I usually let my car warm up for about a minute and just take it easy driving.. I don't think you'll have any problems even if you start it up and go right away..
Unless you're redlining on your first few shifts from a cold start.. then you might have problems.

[bloodmack]

My car idles at 2000rpm when cold and about 2 -3 minutes in it starts to hunt for idle 1500 - 800 rpm for about 5. I usually don't drive my car when it idles at 2k rpm but when it starts hunting i drive. I only put the defrost on medium if my car is foggy other then that if im in a rush i squeegee my windows :P. My cars from 1994 engine has about 150k on it.

[donjalapeno]

I agree with the article. You don't really need to warm up the engine. Just don't drive hard until the engine is warmed up to normal operating temperatures.

When you just sit there and let the car idle your engine is warming up but all the other drivetrain related fluids remain cold. Just take it easy for the first 10-15 minutes from a cold start.
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couldnt of said it better myself, just drive slow until the temp meter goes to the middle.

[metal]

I don't think I've ever warmed my car up for more than a minute. Like everyone else said, just take it easy until you reach normal operating temperature.
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[CanadaGoose]

Here's something to think about.

I used to have a 08' Civic SI, running castrol 10W30, I must've started that thing cold and redlined it onto the freeway atleast 20 or 30 times lol, I'm not proud of that, but I did it, and I never had a problem with it. And I'm talking -20C and colder when I did that.

Sometimes it was so cold out, I was afraid I was going to blow some seals turning the steering wheel because the fluid was so thick. There were days it was so cold I could abruptly let off the clutch, and it would still engage smoothly because the fluid was so viscous the pedal moved like molasses. Those days I let the car warm up 10 mins tops, and it was more for creature comforts then anything else. Realistically as long as your engine oil is rated for the right temperature, and you drive away slowly and keep the rpms low till it warms up, there's really no need for extended warm up on modern gas cars.

[MindBomber]

Do this all apply to exclusively gas engines or do diesel engines not need time to warm up either?

[Phil@rise]

Most factory stock fuel injected cars have a cold start setting programmed in to them. This causes the engine to run at a higher RPM during the initial start up period once it idles down its safe to get on your merry way.
It varies for most cars from a few seconds to the longest I've seen two minutes and usually is about 1500-2000 rpm then it "kicks down" to its normal idle speed.
My old carbed pos I let warm up for a few minutes before driving my other fuel injected cars I let run for no more then a minute before I hit the go pedal.

[Leopold Stotch]

Here's something to think about.

I used to have a 08' Civic SI, running castrol 10W30, I must've started that thing cold and redlined it onto the freeway atleast 20 or 30 times lol, I'm not proud of that, but I did it, and I never had a problem with it. And I'm talking -20C and colder when I did that.

Sometimes it was so cold out, I was afraid I was going to blow some seals turning the steering wheel because the fluid was so thick. There were days it was so cold I could abruptly let off the clutch, and it would still engage smoothly because the fluid was so viscous the pedal moved like molasses. Those days I let the car warm up 10 mins tops, and it was more for creature comforts then anything else. Realistically as long as your engine oil is rated for the right temperature, and you drive away slowly and keep the rpms low till it warms up, there's really no need for extended warm up on modern gas cars.

lol doesn't that thing recommend 5w30 in the summer?

but anyways to answer the OP

i give my car 30-60 seconds before i drive it and i keep the RPMS low. and since i drive manual i shift earlier to warm up the car, as it would if it were automatic. once it gets warm enough, like 1/4 on the coolant temp gauge, i drive normally.

[Lomac]

One other thing to think about is this: Sure, you may let your car idle for a few minutes to warm up the engine and subsequently the interior... but your transmission fluid is still ice cold. Some people equate an engine running at proper operating temperature with a car that can suddenly be redlined the moment they pull out of the driveway. Don't.

[SumAznGuy]

One thing to point out - in the winter, most people get in their car, turn it on, and then blast their heat and fan right away! NONONO not only is it blowing cold air, it will actually take your car longer to heat up that way. Turn it to windshield defrost, turn the fan to the lowest setting, and keep it there till the engine starts to heat up.

And don't forget about putting cardboard or other things in front of the radiator to reduce the cooling efficiency of the cooling system.

In winters past, I can drive 20 minutes on the highway, and the temp needle would go back down to 2 when normal operating temp is 3 bars.

[bloodmack]

Do this all apply to exclusively gas engines or do diesel engines not need time to warm up either?

diesels will always need time to warm up as they dont rely on running but glow plugs. Also for diesels if you idle for too long it will damage it. I've heard that a diesel can eat up a few liters in 45minutes of idleing.

[MindBomber]

diesels will always need time to warm up as they dont rely on running but glow plugs. Also for diesels if you idle for too long it will damage it. I've heard that a diesel can eat up a few liters in 45minutes of idleing.

Thats what I thought, just thought I would check.

[CanadaGoose]

lol doesn't that thing recommend 5w30 in the summer?

Sorry typed it wrong! It should've read 5W30 Castrol GTX (good ol' regular dino oil :D).

Although 10W30 should be safe to almost -30C.... I wouldn't recommend trying it though lol

[Alby]

i've always warmed up my car for a maximum of 1 minute before i start driving away.

is it just me or does anyone else find the article to be contradicting itself? in the beginning it says no you don't have to warm up your car, but then in the end it gives you a time frame of how long you should let it idle/warm up before driving off.

[spoon.ek9]

^ i think the point of the article was to persuade the 10-30min car warmers to cut it out. a few mins is much more reasonable!

[Dentz]

Meh, my 16 valve Jetta runs like shit when cold, so I've got to let it sit for a few minutes before driving it...kind of a 16v thing though.

[godwin]

I thought people put cardboard things on cars mainly because they are forced to park outside and the cardboard on the windshield reduces frost build up on glass areas?

I doubt putting cardboard in front of the car can actually reduce cooling efficiency that much; especially at start up. Since the system is cold anyways. Actually modern cars the grills are for aesthetics as much as they are for functionality. In fact if you look at the latest cars like the Volt etc, they close off most of the vents because closing them reduces drag Cd.

And don't forget about putting cardboard or other things in front of the radiator to reduce the cooling efficiency of the cooling system.
.

[SumAznGuy]

I thought people put cardboard things on cars mainly because they are forced to park outside and the cardboard on the windshield reduces frost build up on glass areas?

I doubt putting cardboard in front of the car can actually reduce cooling efficiency that much; especially at start up. Since the system is cold anyways. Actually modern cars the grills are for aesthetics as much as they are for functionality. In fact if you look at the latest cars like the Volt etc, they close off most of the vents because closing them reduces drag Cd.

While most newer cars have smaller front grill area to reduce drag Cd, they still have some openning to allow air flow. It's not like there is zero opening. :D

If the weather is cold enough, while driving, there is enough air flow to keep the engine running below normal operating temps.

Maybe not so much in normal cars, but I know semi's do this and older GMC truck/vans with those huge grillz.

[Energy]

1 minute to warm the inside of the car and the engine then I'm off. No need to wait more than that really.

[midnight_r]

diesels will always need time to warm up as they dont rely on running but glow plugs. Also for diesels if you idle for too long it will damage it. I've heard that a diesel can eat up a few liters in 45minutes of idleing.

wrong wrong bud. Diesel vehicle can idle forever; it will eat fraction of fuel.
Look at new/old benz/bmw taxis in Europe. They would idle for hours in cold weather, with fraction of the fuel.

[orange7]

30-60 secs to warm the car.

I usually use the 30 secs to clear the fog on my windshield.

Other than that, I usually go in 10 secs.

this is probably because I'm always late for stuff, so I don't idle.

[Great68]

wrong wrong bud. Diesel vehicle can idle forever; it will eat fraction of fuel.
Look at new/old benz/bmw taxis in Europe. They would idle for hours in cold weather, with fraction of the fuel.

Yup, diesels use very little fuel at idle. However it's still not good to idle a COLD diesel engine to warm it up, it would take forever to get up to temperature.

[Shun Izaki]

30s-1min... there's a big difference between "taking it easy" and "keeping low revs"

keeping low revs is useless if you're still bagging on it... knew someone who "warmed up" their car for 30 seconds, and then proceeded to bag on it UNTIL 3.5K... that's just... /palm

[Greenstoner]

the only time i let my engine warm up is the day like today..

a thick icy layer on my windshield... i just start the engine and scape my windshield while having a smoke...

5 mins then im outta there

[unit]

whats considered a low rpm when driving cold?
where i used to live i was on the hwy within 2m of leaving the house, so that was a constant 3000k+ rpm on a cold motor.

[RRxtar]

diesels will always need time to warm up as they dont rely on running but glow plugs. Also for diesels if you idle for too long it will damage it. I've heard that a diesel can eat up a few liters in 45minutes of idleing.
a diesel engine can idle damn near forever. altho, a diesel wont warm up from idling. and it will run like shit when its cold

[Phil@rise]

diesels will always need time to warm up as they dont rely on running but glow plugs. Also for diesels if you idle for too long it will damage it. I've heard that a diesel can eat up a few liters in 45minutes of idleing.

Wrong
Go up north, diesels do not get turned off during the winter months. This does no harm to them it just adds to the hours on the meter. Not all diesels use glow plugs either. If you look under the hood of a diesel they do not have throttle bodies like on a gasoline engine some have flappers to prevent runaway situations but those only close when the engine over revs uncontrolably. They regulate engine speed through fuel enrichment so at idle a diesel engine burns barely anything.

[Alby]

whats considered a low rpm when driving cold?
where i used to live i was on the hwy within 2m of leaving the house, so that was a constant 3000k+ rpm on a cold motor.

on a cold day like today, i warm it up for the duration of ice scraping and did not rev it past 2k rpm till the engine is hot.

[Shun Izaki]

on a cold day like today, i warm it up for the duration of ice scraping and did not rev it past 2k rpm till the engine is hot.

my cold idle is 1900 lol

[FerrariEnzo]

when i start my 20 year old car, the rpm goes up to about 3k and when the goes down a couple hundred rpm, i start to go... which is usually 1min or less

[Alby]

my cold idle is 1900 lol

same as mine. if i have the time to wait, i usually let it idle down to about 1200.

[PuYang]

crap... i sat there warming up my car today for like 10+ minutes.

i park my car outside, and soooo much frost built up all over it. (the ice actually froze my doors shut, and i had to slightly pry it open). took over 10 minutes warming + scraping to remove the ice off my windows, and for the rear defroster to do anything.

if it wasnt for the ice blocking my view completely, i usually wouldnt warm up that long and drive it easy until car warms up a bit.

[Purely]

When it gets really cold ( like yesterday) my beater is basically frozen. I can barely open the door.. as there is ice inside between the keyhole and door. When I get it open, there is ice INSIDE my windshield also.. I must warm my car up for 5-10minutes before I can safely drive.

[Santofu]

^ Same, I couldn't open my trunk for like 5-10 minutes to take out the ice scraper.

[Shun Izaki]

same as mine. if i have the time to wait, i usually let it idle down to about 1200.

mine gradually drops from 1900ish to about 1600 then 1500 then 1200 then super awesomely warm would be 900-950rpm.

I usually warm up with remote start as I'm popping outta my elevator, gives me about 20 seconds or so to walk to my car, and then throw my lunch in, get in the car, setup all my car audio/gps etc... by that time 1900 becomes roughly 1500 and im out :D

[tofu1413]

mine gradually drops from 1900ish to about 1600 then 1500 then 1200 then super awesomely warm would be 900-950rpm.

I usually warm up with remote start as I'm popping outta my elevator, gives me about 20 seconds or so to walk to my car, and then throw my lunch in, get in the car, setup all my car audio/gps etc... by that time 1900 becomes roughly 1500 and im out :D

this... but no elevator. :fuckyea:

[bloodmack]

Wrong
Go up north, diesels do not get turned off during the winter months. This does no harm to them it just adds to the hours on the meter. Not all diesels use glow plugs either. If you look under the hood of a diesel they do not have throttle bodies like on a gasoline engine some have flappers to prevent runaway situations but those only close when the engine over revs uncontrolably. They regulate engine speed through fuel enrichment so at idle a diesel engine burns barely anything.

I see, yah I thought that it might of been a bs fact (when i read it) because my 25 diesel trucks in my long haul fleet dont eat up that much fuel and they're on all the time in this weather cause theres a high chance they wont start up again in the cold. I know about the idle regulator thing as well I just didnt bother to mention it. I know for older diesels its different tho (especially pick up trucks).

[Shun Izaki]

this... but no elevator. :fuckyea:

lol elevator at your house... always wanted one

[tofu1413]

^ realistically.. not really...

haha. unless.. a four post hoist would be awesome. :fuckyea:

[JSALES]

does anyone have frost building up inside of their windows?

[GabAlmighty]

Fuck, this thread comes up every winter. Remember it from last year, something about warm engine and cold tranny and then condensation/water in tranny...

I'll warm my truck up for 5 mins if I have to. Or the time it takes to scrape all the frost off of it.

I <3 idling.

1 minute to warm the inside of the car and the engine then I'm off. No need to wait more than that really.

Damn son, your car gets up to operating temp in 1 minute?

does anyone have frost building up inside of their windows?

Ya, had that when I was in Whistler the last couple days.

[LenovoTurbo]

does anyone have frost building up inside of their windows?

Yup, mine does it too. It's because there were moisture inside your car somewhere. Can be from the carpet/mats and the humidity from your breath left in overnight.

Scraping the frost inside is like snowing on the dash. That's the only snow we can get for now. :\

[Lomac]

Yup, mine does it too. It's because there were moisture inside your car somewhere. Can be from the carpet/mats and the humidity from your breath left in overnight.

Scraping the frost inside is like snowing on the dash. That's the only snow we can get for now. :\

The way I used to combat that with my old cars was to go for a 15-20 minute drive before I went to bed and kept the heat and a/c blasting the entire time. Minimal ice buildup on the outside in the morning, and the inside would be nice and dry.

Mind you, if you have a leak somewhere then you're hooped.

[Qmx323]

I get the "moisture absorbers" from Daiso for like 2 bucks each.

I stick them under my seats and they really do wonders especially when it rains.

But they wear out really fast cuz of the fact that its "Vancouver" and it rains 7 months out of the year.

[LenovoTurbo]

I get the "moisture absorbers" from Daiso for like 2 bucks each.

I stick them under my seats and they really do wonders especially when it rains.

But they wear out really fast cuz of the fact that its "Vancouver" and it rains 7 months out of the year.

I tried looking for that a while ago and couldn't find it. What section/area was it located at? lol

[Qmx323]

its in the laundry section where all the air fresheners are... its like a plastic case with these little powdery balls in the case.

its called like "carbon moisture absorbers" i dunno lol.

[blacK20]

Cold start warmup is not needed on modern cars for the weather we get here. Start vehicle, wait 5 secs, drive light and smooth until it gets up to temp. A cold engine while in open loop runs like a dirty pig. That's partially why fuel mileage drops in the winter time because vehicles take longer to warm up. Remember fuel does not evaporate as well when it is cold. Liquid fuel doesn't burn which causes varnish buildup and ultimately increased engine wear. Turn key, drive off smoothly to help decrease warmup time.

[blacK20]

As for diesels while they sip very little fuel at idle, it's actually not that great to idle for long periods of time. At least not for light duty applications ie 1tons. Soot is always an on going battle with diesels. Light dutys still have to meet certain emission requirements so alot of them are still equipped with emission devices like egr, exhaust burners etc. which are prone to clogging and eventually leading to drivability issues. A REAL diesel on the other hand is a different story.

[twitchyzero]

The way I used to combat that with my old cars was to go for a 15-20 minute drive before I went to bed and kept the heat and a/c blasting the entire time. Minimal ice buildup on the outside in the morning,

seems it's the same effort, if not more than waking up 15min earlier to 'defrost' the interior, no? Unless you are really not a morning person

[SkinnyPupp]

I like to warm up the car, not for the engine, but because it's too fucking cold to drive. I don't want to start moving until the heater is working :lol

[Teh Doucher]

this thread made me lol.

[ronald55555]

Not that I'm against reducing idling time, but the article is crap. Seems like it's written by someone with no engineering background who knows a little bit about engines but thinks he's an expert.

He claims that idling will "cause serious damage to your engine and emission system." He then presents his arguments and say that the cat and spark plugs' life will reduce. Reduction of spark plug life is NOT "serious damage to your engine". As for plugging up the cat, sure, idling has a higher ppm of HC, but in terms of absolute amount, it's not any higher than when the engine is at higher rpms.

He fails to mention anything about heating up of the fluids and thermal expansion of critical engine components. Oil has a very high heat capacity, and takes a long time to warm up and reach its normal viscosity. In cars with higher mileage, the crank bearing can knock when cold due to the extra slop. In a new car when the components are still nice and tight, the engine does not get proper lubrication since the viscosity of the oil is too high. This won't cause any immediate problems, but problems will start showing up later in life. I hope the guy with the 08 civic and 10w30 is on a lease and not planning to keep the car for long. The original author of the article might disagree, but I would rather change my spark plugs more often than to have to change my crank bearings more often.

I think most people here have the right idea, you don't have to idle the car until everything is at full temperature, but just take it easy for the first couple minutes. Like someone else mentioned previously, it's take it easy, not necessarily low rpm. Low rpm high load operation is even worse for your engine.

[fliptuner]

I warm up my cars til the windows defrost. Sometimes it takes 1-2 minutes, sometimes it takes 10-15. Extra unburned HC, sure but I'm not going anywhere til I can see. My commute is 35km each way so I'm comfortable knowing everything gets burned off by the time I shut it down.

As for my 3/4T diesel, I agree with ronald555. There's so much cylinder pressure that if I drive it cold, I'd just be hammering all the bearings. Down the road, soot would be the least of my problems. I usually plug it in and warm it up til the temp guage moves before I go.

[MugenRevolution]

summer time i use auto start to warm up for 30 seconds


winter time i usually let it idle for 1-2 minutes if its cold than drive off slowly

[hchang]

Not to derail this thread here...

But doesn't the way MugenrEvolution post kind of remind you of someone? :troll:

[silva95teg]

I thought people put cardboard things on cars mainly because they are forced to park outside and the cardboard on the windshield reduces frost build up on glass areas?

I doubt putting cardboard in front of the car can actually reduce cooling efficiency that much; especially at start up. Since the system is cold anyways. Actually modern cars the grills are for aesthetics as much as they are for functionality. In fact if you look at the latest cars like the Volt etc, they close off most of the vents because closing them reduces drag Cd.

The Volt might not be the best car to compare with as it is electric with a gas motor used only to generate electricity after 40 miles. I doubt it needs much of a radiator to cool it :P

[DenKare]

i warm my car for 10-15min so the oil comes up throughly to the cams and lifters so it doesn't sound like my moms car >.> "lifters going tick tick tick tick tick making it sound like a diesel"