[twitchyzero]

OTTAWA — The government says it needs to pump hundreds of millions of extra dollars into its student-loans program to keep the system functioning.

Budget documents tabled Tuesday show the Canada Student Loans Program needs an injection of $149.5 million to cover writeoffs of more than 60,000 unanticipated defaults.

At the same time, the program says it needs another $311.2 million to meet higher demand for the loans, just as repayments decline.

Basically people aren't repaying their educational debts...at the same time more people need loans.

For the small percentage of people here suggesting to take out student loans for your car mods..look at how many students/taxpayer you are potentially screwing over.

For the rest of the story click here: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110208/canada-student-loans-110208/

[bloodmack]

GG, im paying my student loan. have been for the past 3 years. Used it for school and only school. People who abuse the system like that are douches.

[FN-2199]

GG, im paying my student loan. have been for the past 3 years. Used it for school and only school. People who abuse the system like that are douches.

Ditto. It's terrible when people take advantage of it. I had leftover money from my loans for school, and just paid it back.

[TheNewGirl]

Well what this article doesn't say is a lot too.

In the province of BC up until I think 2003 we subsidized high need persons while they were going to school, mostly single parents and persons with disabilities (aka, people who couldn't work and attend school at the same time, or wouldn't be able to work with out training) which was preferable to having them on welfare as it both cost less and meant getting them onto an educational track that would result in them earning higher incomes and pour money back into public funds.

On this path you would be getting about 1/2 of your loan as a grant so your debt levels were rising only slowly (to the tune of a couple thousand a semester).

Abruptly in 2003 this stopped meaning the people who were half way through their degrees were suddenly being given (you don't get to say 'no I only want X # dollars, they assess you and tell you what you're getting) the whole amount as a loan.

I know I was one of these people. In 2003-04, the last year of my degree I gathered more debt than the whole three years prior combined. Totally 4 times more than had origionally been anticipated when I'd first set out on my educational path and discussed all this with the student loan people.

This story, is not uncommon at all. I know several people in this situation. So I won't get out of student debt now for... 13 years. And am paying loans to both the province of BC and the Federal Loan (cause they give you two you can't take one or the other) Wee! That claiming bankruptcy after 7 option? Well that's really really tempting when you're trying to scrounge up hundreds of extra dollars a month and in all honesty I don't blame anyone who takes it.

In short, I don't recommend student loans to anyone any more. When I begun my education I was flat out lied to and deceived about how the system would work, the budget I would expect to be dealing with after I was done and so on. It's no better than those folks who come ply 19 year old students with high limit credit cards and then bitch when they default on them.

[bloodmack]

Well what this article doesn't say is a lot too.

In the province of BC up until I think 2003 we subsidized high need persons while they were going to school, mostly single parents and persons with disabilities (aka, people who couldn't work and attend school at the same time, or wouldn't be able to work with out training) which was preferable to having them on welfare as it both cost less and meant getting them onto an educational track that would result in them earning higher incomes and pour money back into public funds.

On this path you would be getting about 1/2 of your loan as a grant so your debt levels were rising only slowly (to the tune of a couple thousand a semester).

Abruptly in 2003 this stopped meaning the people who were half way through their degrees were suddenly being given (you don't get to say 'no I only want X # dollars, they assess you and tell you what you're getting) the whole amount as a loan.

I know I was one of these people. In 2003-04, the last year of my degree I gathered more debt than the whole three years prior combined. Totally 4 times more than had origionally been anticipated when I'd first set out on my educational path and discussed all this with the student loan people.

This story, is not uncommon at all. I know several people in this situation. So I won't get out of student debt now for... 13 years. And am paying loans to both the province of BC and the Federal Loan (cause they give you two you can't take one or the other) Wee! That claiming bankruptcy after 7 option? Well that's really really tempting when you're trying to scrounge up hundreds of extra dollars a month and in all honesty I don't blame anyone who takes it.

In short, I don't recommend student loans to anyone any more. When I begun my education I was flat out lied to and deceived about how the system would work, the budget I would expect to be dealing with after I was done and so on. It's no better than those folks who come ply 19 year old students with high limit credit cards and then bitch when they default on them.

If you got the whole amount why not spend what you need and give back the rest? (maybe i'm interpreting what you said wrong). Did you guys not get a few months grace period after you finished your schooling? I got 2 grants which took about 1/4 off my student loan and spent what I needed on school and gave back the rest. I'll be done my payments in 2014 and I started paying in 2009.

[twitchyzero]

If you got the whole amount why not spend what you need and give back the rest? (maybe i'm interpreting what you said wrong). Did you guys not get a few months grace period after you finished your schooling? I got 2 grants which took about 1/4 off my student loan and spent what I needed on school and gave back the rest. I'll be done my payments in 2014 and I started paying in 2009.

yeah i'm sure you can pay back whatever you don't use so your monthly payments after graduation would be decreased, no?

and to bloodmack the loan reduction program that you mentioned was abolished last year due to the recession:speechless:

[LiquidTurbo]

My feelings were that student loans were always the deal w/ the devil. How can they expect that you pay them back right away after graduation? Quite a few of my friends are feeling the effects of paying back these loans + interest.

I took a different strategy, working jobs at the summer to save up for tuition for the following year. It was a drag, but hey at least no loans to pay off.

[bloodmack]

@TwitchyZero, I was talking about the millennium program, you talking about the same one?

My feelings were that student loans were always the deal w/ the devil. How can they expect that you pay them back right away after graduation? Quite a few of my friends are feeling the effects of paying back these loans + interest.

I took a different strategy, working jobs at the summer to save up for tuition for the following year. It was a drag, but hey at least no loans to pay off.

I really don't understand how people can let their loans get out of hand.. If you cant handle the responsibility you shouldn't get a loan. I understand that things dont always go the way you want when you get out of college/uni (didn't for me) but I am still able to pay my loans back with no financial problems. Interest isn't even high, unless you choose to take a variable interest which is probably much higher if your paying a loan you got from pre-recession. I worked in the summers and didn't use a single dime of what I made on school, the only thing i regret :P.

[Mizter]

I have some classmates that take student loans even though they already have money saved for their entire education. They said something about not having interest when paying back loans immediately after graduation. So essentially, they're investing with their tuition money and paying back the loans and pocketing the extra money.

[bloodmack]

I have some classmates that take student loans even though they already have money saved for their entire education. They said something about not having interest when paying back loans immediately after graduation. So essentially, they're investing with their tuition money and paying back the loans and pocketing the extra money.

You get a grace period of no interest as well as you don't have to pay your loan back. I don't understand how they can pocket extra money when you have to pay your entire student loan back..

[Mizter]

You get a grace period of no interest as well as you don't have to pay your loan back. I don't understand how they can pocket extra money when you have to pay your entire student loan back..

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough but they already have their tuition saved up and they're investing with this money not paying their tuition. The money they make from this is what they're pocketing.

[Teriyaki]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough but they already have their tuition saved up and they're investing with this money not paying their tuition. The money they make from this is what they're pocketing.

This. Plus they give you grants on a portion of your loan so thats also "free" money. No system will be perfect. As always, there will be the bad apples that spoil the batch for everyone like with lenient return policies etc.

[LiquidTurbo]

^ so if they have all this money in the first place, how did they qualify for a loan?

[Spectre_Cdn]

^by not disclosing the full amount of their savings when applying for a loan?

[EvoFire]

You get a grace period of no interest as well as you don't have to pay your loan back. I don't understand how they can pocket extra money when you have to pay your entire student loan back..

There are no more no interest grace periods anymore, they abolished that too. Interest starts accumulating the moment you are out of classes and you don't renew with them.

They do however give you a 7 month grace period to FIND a job and start paying them back. Its quite ridiculous and the reason why I'm working 30hrs a week on top of full time school at the same time and avoiding borrowing any money. Its not fun, but definitely better than owing a good 50k after grad.

[EvoFire]

This. Plus they give you grants on a portion of your loan so thats also "free" money. No system will be perfect. As always, there will be the bad apples that spoil the batch for everyone like with lenient return policies etc.

You have to fall into a very specific bracket to get grants. I had no job in my first and second year of classes and I received zero grants from the government, nothing, zip, nada. I'm not sure what the specifics are but they are very stingy about it.

^ so if they have all this money in the first place, how did they qualify for a loan?

Lots of people with money saved up can get loans. And they can't possibly check everyone that applies.

[taylor192]

All this shows is we're pushing more kids into higher education yet not teaching them a damn thing they need to know. Financial education is awful in this country.

[taylor192]

They do however give you a 7 month grace period to FIND a job and start paying them back. Its quite ridiculous
Why is it ridiculous? I found it ridiculous that my peers were waiting till graduation to start looking for a job, while I had signed a contract near the beginning of 4th year to start the week after my last exam.

Its as if they learned nothing about the real world, which is sad. Do you want to compete with everyone graduating at the same time? or get your resume out earlier and secure a job before everyone else?

[Oleophobic]

^
just a question because I'm planning on applying for jobs in my final semester.

A lot of companies in the field I'm in prefer students who have a degree. Did you put a note on your resume about graduation since technically you didn't graduate yet and don't have a degree?

[taylor192]

On this path you would be getting about 1/2 of your loan as a grant so your debt levels were rising only slowly (to the tune of a couple thousand a semester).

Abruptly in 2003 this stopped meaning the people who were half way through their degrees were suddenly being given (you don't get to say 'no I only want X # dollars, they assess you and tell you what you're getting) the whole amount as a loan.

I know I was one of these people. In 2003-04, the last year of my degree I gathered more debt than the whole three years prior combined.
I hope you didn't take a math degree.

3 years at half price + 1 year at full price == 2.5 years tuition
4 years at half price == 2 years tuition
4 years at full price == 4 years tuition

Thus you're either being dramatic, or cannot do basic math. It sucks that the government took away the grant, yet paying 1 full year would not have buried you.

[dachinesedude]

people need to get off their asses and start finding jobs to help fund their own education, assuming they still live at home with parents, it is not hard to pay tuition with only a part-time job income

if you're forced to move out at 18 and need money for university, tough luck, you prob need a student loan

[taylor192]

^
just a question because I'm planning on applying for jobs in my final semester.

A lot of companies in the field I'm in prefer students who have a degree. Did you put a note on your resume about graduation since technically you didn't graduate yet and don't have a degree?

Absolutely. I couldn't expect to interview for a job in Sept and tell them I couldn't start till Apr. :) I even attached my 4th year course list and a transcript for the prior 3 years. Admittedly I lucked out searching so early and finding a company willing to hold a position for so long, yet that was during the tech bubble when companies were desperate for good employees.

If you're graduating in Apr you should be looking now. Many employers will be fine with holding a job for a month or 2. Why? Cause if they hire a good employee, usually that employee is at another job and needs 2-4 weeks to finish up and transition out - many people cannot just give 2 weeks notice and walk away.

[Bouncing Bettys]

pisses me off that I know people who are spending their student loans on toys while my tuition is so expensive the student loans barely cover it while I have no money for cost of living expenses.

[TheNewGirl]

@TwitchyZero, I was talking about the millennium program, you talking about the same one?



I really don't understand how people can let their loans get out of hand.. If you cant handle the responsibility you shouldn't get a loan. I understand that things dont always go the way you want when you get out of college/uni (didn't for me) but I am still able to pay my loans back with no financial problems. Interest isn't even high, unless you choose to take a variable interest which is probably much higher if your paying a loan you got from pre-recession. I worked in the summers and didn't use a single dime of what I made on school, the only thing i regret :P.


As I said, when I sat down with the loan people when I first went to school they said 'You'll get X as loan and Y as a grant, at the end you'll be looking at Z payments monthly' and it was managable.

Then suddenly midway through my education things changed. So you sit there and go 'Well now do I bail and have all this debt and no degree, or do I continue and wrack up more debt and get a degree. I couldn't go on and do grad school because frankly, I couldn't afford to not be working personally.

It's very very easy for it to get out of control, as I said, it's not an honest or transparent system when you get into it, especially if you're in a position where you have no other financial options for going to school.


I hope you didn't take a math degree.

3 years at half price + 1 year at full price == 2.5 years tuition
4 years at half price == 2 years tuition
4 years at full price == 4 years tuition

Thus you're either being dramatic, or cannot do basic math. It sucks that the government took away the grant, yet paying 1 full year would not have buried you


No we're not talking about just tuition (though that rose substantially in 2003/04 as well)

We're talking about a program that was in place for people who could not work enough to pay all their living costs (though I did work pt at SFU while I was there) so we're talking about about 90% of all living costs + tuition + books. We're talking in the 5 digit numbers yearly here, not 4. And it was (and still is) sold like the magic pill particular as I said to people with kids, or disabilities - if you take this route you'll be in better shape down the road when that frankly is NOT the truth.

[TheNewGirl]

All this shows is we're pushing more kids into higher education yet not teaching them a damn thing they need to know. Financial education is awful in this country.

I totally agree. I wish someone had taught me a lot of the shit I learned the hard way after school was over.

[CKLCKL]

I totally agree. I wish someone had taught me a lot of the shit I learned the hard way after school was over.

You didnt live at home while going to SFU?

tuition on a degree was about $30k (for me anyway)

[twitchyzero]

As I said, when I sat down with the loan people when I first went to school they said 'You'll get X as loan and Y as a grant, at the end you'll be looking at Z payments monthly' and it was managable.

Then suddenly midway through my education things changed. ...And it was (and still is) sold like the magic pill particular as I said to people with kids, or disabilities - if you take this route you'll be in better shape down the road when that frankly is NOT the truth.
i guess for the tuition freeze to be lifted in 2003 when the provicinal gov't was changed up was something that the financial advisors were not expecting. It's not exactly the magic pill but really, what options do people have?
the vulnerable (single mom's..disabilities etc) probably don't have the best credit history to take out a SLoC.

i'd still take gov't loans over SLoC from the bank...interest-free while in school and is tax-deductible during repayment phase. The only drawback of gov't loans is that you can easily max out of loans and you have to deal with repayment at both the national and provincial level (seems like they don't communicate well with each other).

[taylor192]

people need to get off their asses and start finding jobs to help fund their own education, assuming they still live at home with parents, it is not hard to pay tuition with only a part-time job income

if you're forced to move out at 18 and need money for university, tough luck, you prob need a student loan

I don't agree with you depending on the degree. I was able to keep my grades much higher without a job and taking loans. My high grades got me a fantastic salary out of school which allowed me to pay back $25K of loans.

I took systems engineering, meanwhile my brother did the same with civil engineering and is still paying back his loans since the salaries are not nearly as high - so this approach will not work for every degree.

[taylor192]

pisses me off that I know people who are spending their student loans on toys while my tuition is so expensive the student loans barely cover it while I have no money for cost of living expenses.
Loans and tuition are not directly related, although I don't want my taxes subsidizing loans to buy toys.

Canadian tuition is cheap. The amount you pay may seem expensive, yet is heavily subsidized. I would prefer to see tuition costs rise further, my taxes should not be subsidizing someone getting a useless degree for cheap. If tuition cost most, maybe people would be more interested in taking degrees that are more worthwhile than art history :whistle:

[TheNewGirl]

You didnt live at home while going to SFU?

tuition on a degree was about $30k (for me anyway)

No. When I was at SFU I did not have the option of living with my parents or of getting more than minimal financial assistance from them.

But, I didn't mean to make this about /me/ personally. I am paying my loans. And will be, for a long, long, long time. But I am paying them.

What I meant with my commentary was to show an example of why the Student Loans department are in the situation they are. Because they give more credit than they should to people who really have no option but to take it and who are going to be heavily financially burdened by them later (and therefore struggle with payments or more likely to default). I don't know how they can be surprised when this is the end result.


i guess for the tuition freeze to be lifted in 2003 when the provicinal gov't was changed up was something that the financial advisors were not expecting. It's not exactly the magic pill but really, what options do people have?
the vulnerable (single mom's..disabilities etc) probably don't have the best credit history to take out a SLoC.

i'd still take gov't loans over SLoC from the bank...interest-free while in school and is tax-deductible during repayment phase. The only drawback of gov't loans is that you can easily max out of loans and you have to deal with repayment at both the national and provincial level (seems like they don't communicate well with each other).


Yes. What I would like them to do though is, like the credit card companies, every time you get your loan renewed, have it clearly state both what your totals are and what that is going to result in your end payment being when you get out. Also some sort of financial planning education should be a requirement to entering the Student Loan program.

Further more I think the national and provincial loans should be pooled into 1 payment (this would be much more managable) and interest rates should be more preferential (They are pretty high and don't go down, ever). And I think they should subsidize those who's only other alternative is really staying home on welfare (or allow them to collect welfare while at school so they don't have to take out loans large enough to cover their living expenses).

[Levitron]

Why is it ridiculous? I found it ridiculous that my peers were waiting till graduation to start looking for a job, while I had signed a contract near the beginning of 4th year to start the week after my last exam.

Its as if they learned nothing about the real world, which is sad. Do you want to compete with everyone graduating at the same time? or get your resume out earlier and secure a job before everyone else?

Yes and no.

It really depends on what industry you're in.

[Nightwalker]

I'm saving to go back, fuck a student loan.

[flagella]

Taking student loan is really just like spending too much on your credit card and accumulating significant amount of interest. Just as the banks prefer individual who pays ridiculous interest rates on their credit card, student loan issuers prefer those who graduate and make timely payments with interests they charge.

I took student loan anyway even though I knew my parents were there to back me up. The reason is because of those grants you get. The grants I received exceeded 5k and those were pretty much like free $, and am sure part of it comes from people paying the interest on student loan. Much like when you have 1% cash back credit card, these $ come from those who pay interests. The difference is that people paying back student loan with interest rates are working hard to do the right thing and those who pay interests on their credit card spending are plain dumbasses.

[iEatClams]

^
just a question because I'm planning on applying for jobs in my final semester.

A lot of companies in the field I'm in prefer students who have a degree. Did you put a note on your resume about graduation since technically you didn't graduate yet and don't have a degree?

Back when I was in University, most of the larger corporations (Accounting , Banks, Oil, Resource, Mining, Engineering, Computer firms etc) had their recruiting process in October-December). I wouldn't graduate until after exams, which is May.

On my Resume I would indicate something like this:

UBC, SFU Degree etc . .. . . . . . . . Expected Graduation: May 2005


These larger companies generally know that these students will not be graduating until this time, and therefore want to lock up the "TOP TALENT" first before other companies get in.

I remember my job offer was in December, yet I didn't start until June, a month after finals were over.

For smaller companies I notice they don't accept applications until a month or so before the start date.

[no_clue]

I heard that some Asian people with PR status, abuse this by maxing out the loans and jetting off to their native countries after getting a degree. Apparently they dont need to pay if they leave the country for 10years or something.

[Gridlock]

Student loans are a joke. I remember I was 18, and being led through the process like a herd to the slaughter. Had no idea what I was signing, and magically money appeared in my account. I finally paid one off, and close to the other one. I first went to school in 1998.

Had shitloads of fun through, and lived in a kickass apartment in the Southend of Halifax.

I'd like to have shitloads of fun with my $150 a month now though.

[taylor192]

I heard that some Asian people with PR status, abuse this by maxing out the loans and jetting off to their native countries after getting a degree. Apparently they dont need to pay if they leave the country for 10years or something.

My friend considered this when she moved to Australia, I am glad she did not go through with it. She could declare Canadian bankruptcy and ride out the majority of the bad years in Australia as her ruined Canadian credit would not follow her.

[Meowjin]

I really need student loans, but I keep getting rejected because they claim I make too much.. I'm not working as much as I use to, so I'm hoping my grades are good so I can get scholarship.

All I'm looking for is just my tuition to be covered. Fuck, living alone, having a car, having to feed yourself, money for entertainment is fucking expensive! Then we get taxed up the ass.

[LiquidTurbo]

^ Meh. You're still doing better than 4,000,000,000 on the planet :D. You're doing ok.

[Nocardia]

i'd still take gov't loans over SLoC from the bank...interest-free while in school and is tax-deductible during repayment phase. The only drawback of gov't loans is that you can easily max out of loans and you have to deal with repayment at both the national and provincial level (seems like they don't communicate well with each other).

Most definitely agree, as eloquently said above:
STUDENT LOANS>>>>>>>>LINE OF CREDIT
1. Interest free while in school
2. Interest after school is tax deductable
3. Don't have to pay for 6 months post-last day of class (although interest accumulates)
I have no sympathy for those who go to school for something to do and get loans then quit 1/2 way through to find themselves 15k in debt working at Starbucks. Get a game plan early or just work at starbucks.

My student loan was ~28000, paid off in 14 months. I just moved back home and used my money to pay off the loan instead of rent to my parents. I don't care that I was 25 and moved home, it allowed me to save an astronomical amount of money in a short period of time and I still traveled tons and went out often. Just cut the frivolous spending (ie. starbucks, fast food, massive cell phone bills).

For those in high school or 1st year, take a good look at finances and apply for every aid you can: 5-10 hours of your time may make you a thousand dollars in grants.

[Oleophobic]

interesting discussion I have to say.

Just want to get this straight. say someone borrows 28k and gets a degree and then a good job. The top priority after graduation would to pay off the loan before worrying about other stuff correct? ie. similar to what Nocardia did, make sacrifices, pay it all off in about a year.
THEN start worrying about saving up for a mortgage or whatever right?

that seems to be make the most sense to me instead of saving up for a mortgage while making 300/month payments or w/e. Dunno if there could be advantages to just sticking with monthly payments (for the purpose of tax deductions and whatnot).

[twitchyzero]

^ i'm not at that age yet but i'd just stick to the monthly payments and save for down payment at the same time.

[Nocardia]

that seems to be make the most sense to me instead of saving up for a mortgage while making 300/month payments or w/e. Dunno if there could be advantages to just sticking with monthly payments (for the purpose of tax deductions and whatnot).

I don't know what the expert financial people would say about it but to be honest, paying the minimum payments means that I would be paying off my student debt for years (now that I think about it, I actually still had ~7G from savings and gifts from grandparents and tax refunds come the end of university so like 6G went right away)

The stress of knowing that I have debt for years to come is not worth it (nor is complaining on RS about how you feel screwed about it), yes I could have bought a new car or saved for a mortgage. But right now I know I am stress-free because I am not tied down with debt and all my money now goes towards furnishing the new place :)

In the long run a student loan is the best investment I can think of - if used properly.

[EvoFire]

I hope you don't that I'm in any way targeting you because it just feels like your viewpoints are good candidates for discussion or even give me pointers in a few months when I'm out of school.

Why is it ridiculous? I found it ridiculous that my peers were waiting till graduation to start looking for a job, while I had signed a contract near the beginning of 4th year to start the week after my last exam.

Its as if they learned nothing about the real world, which is sad. Do you want to compete with everyone graduating at the same time? or get your resume out earlier and secure a job before everyone else?

What I meant ridiculous was that I felt it should have been a little bit more flexible. I totally understand the need to start looking for a job months before you are done school, but not everyone is as fortunate to find something. Perhaps let it start counting once a full time job is started. Granted its more paper work for both the government and the student.

Its not "as if they learned nothing about the real world", its probably correct for at least half the people about to grad right now to know nothing of the real world.

Absolutely. I couldn't expect to interview for a job in Sept and tell them I couldn't start till Apr. :) I even attached my 4th year course list and a transcript for the prior 3 years. Admittedly I lucked out searching so early and finding a company willing to hold a position for so long, yet that was during the tech bubble when companies were desperate for good employees.

Exactly, you lucked out. And while there are still good opportunities out there right now, its just not as great after 08/09 depression.

I don't agree with you depending on the degree. I was able to keep my grades much higher without a job and taking loans. My high grades got me a fantastic salary out of school which allowed me to pay back $25K of loans.

I took systems engineering, meanwhile my brother did the same with civil engineering and is still paying back his loans since the salaries are not nearly as high - so this approach will not work for every degree.

Agreed with the first part as it depends on the degree you are currently doing. Though disagree about the 2nd part with loans as getting through a 4 year university career will now cost you much more than $25k. I'd say after a 4 year degree just based on just student loans, you are looking at owing around $40k after you grad. With the student loan limit capped at $50k(it was that much last time I checked), its awfully close. If it gets dragged out a little longer than expected when you can't get the classes that you want, it will get a little nerve-wracking.

My friend considered this when she moved to Australia, I am glad she did not go through with it. She could declare Canadian bankruptcy and ride out the majority of the bad years in Australia as her ruined Canadian credit would not follow her.

Good for her, I despise those who do not take responsibility for themselves.

Just wondering, when did you graduate?

[breh]

I guess I'm lucky.

I did 4 co-op terms (2 x 8 months) in school and worked as a teaching assistant for a few semesters. I was pretty much able to pay off my entire debt by graduation.

It's not hard to save up to pay it off if you stop spending money on useless shit. I made about 35k between my two co-ops and spent maybe only 4-5k on myself. Each TA gig got me about 2k per semester, just enough to cover tuition for the semester.

[snowball]

I really need student loans, but I keep getting rejected because they claim I make too much.. I'm not working as much as I use to, so I'm hoping my grades are good so I can get scholarship.

All I'm looking for is just my tuition to be covered. Fuck, living alone, having a car, having to feed yourself, money for entertainment is fucking expensive! Then we get taxed up the ass.

True that, I had 2k in the bank account and they expected me to use my incredible "savings" on tuition.

[EvoFire]

I don't know what the expert financial people would say about it but to be honest, paying the minimum payments means that I would be paying off my student debt for years (now that I think about it, I actually still had ~7G from savings and gifts from grandparents and tax refunds come the end of university so like 6G went right away)

The stress of knowing that I have debt for years to come is not worth it (nor is complaining on RS about how you feel screwed about it), yes I could have bought a new car or saved for a mortgage. But right now I know I am stress-free because I am not tied down with debt and all my money now goes towards furnishing the new place :)

In the long run a student loan is the best investment I can think of - if used properly.

Agreed on every part, on top of that the longer you take to pay your loans, the more interest you accumulate, the more you end up actually paying.

[twitchyzero]

I guess I'm lucky.

I did 4 co-op terms (2 x 8 months) in school and worked as a teaching assistant for a few semesters. I was pretty much able to pay off my entire debt by graduation.

It's not hard to save up to pay it off if you stop spending money on useless shit. I made about 35k between my two co-ops and spent maybe only 4-5k on myself. Each TA gig got me about 2k per semester, just enough to cover tuition for the semester.

you are lucky..that's some nice cash flow from co-op and tuition at 2k a sem is pretty cheap.
Jus curious, did you take 6 years in total then?

[breh]

Yup, pretty much took an extra year to grad but I think the co-op experience was more than worth it. My course load varied though. Sometimes 3 courses per semester... which is why 2k per semester almost covered it all (I'd have to add maybe a few hundred dollars).

This was at SFU btw, which I personally think has a great co-op program.

[quasi]

I really need student loans, but I keep getting rejected because they claim I make too much.. I'm not working as much as I use to, so I'm hoping my grades are good so I can get scholarship.

All I'm looking for is just my tuition to be covered. Fuck, living alone, having a car, having to feed yourself, money for entertainment is fucking expensive! Then we get taxed up the ass.

I had the samething happen to me in 2000 when I went back to school. I had to go take out a line of credit at my bank and make payments well working 30 hours a week and going to school fulltime.

I think it's kind of BS you get punished for working and going to school. Meanwhile the other people I went to school with were getting Grants they didn't have to pay back and of course were rewarded with interest free loans because they lived at home and just went to school.

[Mr.HappySilp]

I think when I went to school it was like 45% was grant (which u don't have to pay back) and about 55% of it was loan. By the end of my school I only have to play back like 21k but I have like 40lisk from the gov. I think when I finishs chool I was in the alst semester that had the grant thing.

Honestly a lot of people are apply and don't need the money. It will be a better idea to put some of that money into student jobs. Say instead of giving you that money the gov could use part of that money to create jobs for student related to their field. That way they get the work exp, money from working so when they graduate it is easier to find work.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Well what this article doesn't say is a lot too.

In the province of BC up until I think 2003 we subsidized high need persons while they were going to school, mostly single parents and persons with disabilities (aka, people who couldn't work and attend school at the same time, or wouldn't be able to work with out training) which was preferable to having them on welfare as it both cost less and meant getting them onto an educational track that would result in them earning higher incomes and pour money back into public funds.

On this path you would be getting about 1/2 of your loan as a grant so your debt levels were rising only slowly (to the tune of a couple thousand a semester).

Abruptly in 2003 this stopped meaning the people who were half way through their degrees were suddenly being given (you don't get to say 'no I only want X # dollars, they assess you and tell you what you're getting) the whole amount as a loan.

I know I was one of these people. In 2003-04, the last year of my degree I gathered more debt than the whole three years prior combined. Totally 4 times more than had origionally been anticipated when I'd first set out on my educational path and discussed all this with the student loan people.

This story, is not uncommon at all. I know several people in this situation. So I won't get out of student debt now for... 13 years. And am paying loans to both the province of BC and the Federal Loan (cause they give you two you can't take one or the other) Wee! That claiming bankruptcy after 7 option? Well that's really really tempting when you're trying to scrounge up hundreds of extra dollars a month and in all honesty I don't blame anyone who takes it.

In short, I don't recommend student loans to anyone any more. When I begun my education I was flat out lied to and deceived about how the system would work, the budget I would expect to be dealing with after I was done and so on. It's no better than those folks who come ply 19 year old students with high limit credit cards and then bitch when they default on them.

13 years O_o how much loan did you take out???? I remember I have to pay aobut 21k to the gov at a rate of 550 (I was paying min payment but what I did was pay min and the save up a large amount and pay more at once, once a while). Took me 2years to pay it off. Man 13years.... your loan must be well over 100k ><

[Meowjin]

I had the samething happen to me in 2000 when I went back to school. I had to go take out a line of credit at my bank and make payments well working 30 hours a week and going to school fulltime.

I think it's kind of BS you get punished for working and going to school. Meanwhile the other people I went to school with were getting Grants they didn't have to pay back and of course were rewarded with interest free loans because they lived at home and just went to school.

my choice to live alone is not by choice though, it's just the cards I was dealt and I've accepted.

I'm re-appealing. I'm honestly trying to quit 1 of my jobs, so I'm not spending more days a week working that I am going to school.

[baggdis300]

damn how are you guys getting thousands in grants?

i got a 5700$ loan, and only 500$ was a grant....

and they give you 6 months after grad interest free
not 100% sure if 6 months are interest free, but you don't have to make a payment until 6 months, so they might charge you the 6months interest

[GrapeDrink]

True that, I had 2k in the bank account and they expected me to use my incredible "savings" on tuition.

exactly I don't understand student loans man, I applied twice and got rejected twice because apparently the few thousand I made during the summer should be totally enough to cover everything and to be honest I guess if I didn't spend a dime of it it would definitely be enough to cover everything. It just kind of sucks to know that when you go and try to make little money just to have some money for if something comes up and etc and they penalize you for that. While people getting student loans also get living expenses on top of tuition costs and after I pay for my tuition and buy my books used off craigslist, I'm basically a hobo. I guess the only good part is I'm done 60 credits and I have no debt or any savings lol alright I will stop my ranting here.

[Anjew]

^^^ yea dude at least you dont have student loans to worry about =)

[taylor192]

interesting discussion I have to say.

Just want to get this straight. say someone borrows 28k and gets a degree and then a good job. The top priority after graduation would to pay off the loan before worrying about other stuff correct? ie. similar to what Nocardia did, make sacrifices, pay it all off in about a year.
THEN start worrying about saving up for a mortgage or whatever right?

that seems to be make the most sense to me instead of saving up for a mortgage while making 300/month payments or w/e. Dunno if there could be advantages to just sticking with monthly payments (for the purpose of tax deductions and whatnot).

"Top priority" is hard to judge since everyone is different and times change.

For me the top priority was saving for a mortgage since house prices were booming and interest rates were super low. My $25K loan had a 17yr repayment so the monthly payment was small and did not have much affect on my debt ratios.

For you it might be completely different. Interest rates are still low, yet will increase. Housing will not make you the same gains I saw. Thus it might be better for you to pay off the debt.

For others they may just not like debt and want it gone asap.

Yet I will say this: it takes money to make money. If you do not have $$$ available, an opportunity may pass you by. If I had been aggressively paying down my student loan, I would not have bought a house and profited from the housing boom.

[taylor192]

I hope you don't that I'm in any way targeting you because it just feels like your viewpoints are good candidates for discussion or even give me pointers in a few months when I'm out of school.
My posts can seem harsh and blunt, its just my style, don't read too much into it. I really enjoy good discussions! :thumbsup:

What I meant ridiculous was that I felt it should have been a little bit more flexible. I totally understand the need to start looking for a job months before you are done school, but not everyone is as fortunate to find something. Perhaps let it start counting once a full time job is started. Granted its more paper work for both the government and the student.
If everyone started looking early, then my plan wouldn't work :) Thus I'm preaching to those who want to get ahead, there's always going to be average or lazy people who are fine where they are.

I don't think it would wait till you have a job, otherwise what incentive is there to find a job? When I graduated the grace period was 6 months, that should be more than enough time - unless you took a degree without job prospects... in which case we shouldn't be subsiding these degrees.

Exactly, you lucked out. And while there are still good opportunities out there right now, its just not as great after 08/09 depression.
Absolutely, yet that's why my advice is even more important today. With fewer jobs and more grads comes more competition - so if you want to get ahead you should be beating your competitors to the starting gate.

Agreed with the first part as it depends on the degree you are currently doing. Though disagree about the 2nd part with loans as getting through a 4 year university career will now cost you much more than $25k. I'd say after a 4 year degree just based on just student loans, you are looking at owing around $40k after you grad. With the student loan limit capped at $50k(it was that much last time I checked), its awfully close. If it gets dragged out a little longer than expected when you can't get the classes that you want, it will get a little nerve-wracking.
Anyone that drags their degree out longer than needed is doing themselves a disservice. You can always get your mandatory credits, then take any electives that get you out the door fastest. Most of your learning will be on the job anyways.

My brother graduated in 2003 with $35K of loans, yet he did an extra year cause he fucked up.
I graduated in 2002 with $25K of loans.

So I absolutely agree kids today will graduate further in debt - yet that's a completely different discussion. :) One of my favourite bloggers predicts education will be the next bubble to pop.

[taylor192]

Yup, pretty much took an extra year to grad but I think the co-op experience was more than worth it. My course load varied though. Sometimes 3 courses per semester... which is why 2k per semester almost covered it all (I'd have to add maybe a few hundred dollars).

This was at SFU btw, which I personally think has a great co-op program.
I went to Carleton cause they have a co-op program with most of the tech companies in the region. I worked a 4, 8, and 12 month co-op term, making ~$35K/yr. This certainly helped me afford school, otherwise my loans would have been much higher.

I think anyone attending university/college should weigh co-op heavily, job placements pay well and get your foot in the door with relevant experience.

[Nocardia]

damn how are you guys getting thousands in grants?

i got a 5700$ loan, and only 500$ was a grant....


My loans were ~10000/year. My first year I got nothing because my loan was much smaller and I had a larger saving, the 2nd year I got like $400 because I didn't even know much about busaries. My 3nd year I realized there was TONs of money, so I applied around and got about $1000. But in my 4th year I found aot a healthcare bursary which was HUGE and got about 5000k.


and they give you 6 months after grad interest free
not 100% sure if 6 months are interest free, but you don't have to make a payment until 6 months, so they might charge you the 6months interest

It is NOT interest free, come October they tag on ~$1000 in back interest, known from experience, make sure that rumor stops NOW

[Meowjin]

Im looking at science co-ops... Better to start now than later.

[DA9ve]

What I learned from receiving students was that they gave way more than required. It was gravy when the money came and honestly as a young adult I wasn't looking after my expenses all that well. They know how much tuition costs and yet they still lend out I would say 20-30% more than you need. No wonder they don't have enough to respond to the demand for all the students out there.

[RacingMetro92]

I'm on a student loan because I didn't have the money to cover my funds for university (I'm in my first year), and my mom didn't bother to give me money for school. I'm actually budgeting my money and keeping track of EVERY penny I spend, and I make sure to stay within the budget. I got 5k, even though I'm living at home, which was way more than I needed. Scholarships helped me a little bit too.

Some people who get these loans have never had this much money before, and they just go and burn it all, and then take out another huge loan the next semester.

[baggdis300]

and that is why they break up the payment by about 3 months.

i got 3200 in january and will get another 2500 in march


It is NOT interest free, come October they tag on ~$1000 in back interest, known from experience, make sure that rumor stops NOW

notice how i said im not 100% sure, and then said that they probably add those 6months of interest on after the 6th month, and that its just 6 month payment free, but interest starts day you grad

[snowball]

damn how are you guys getting thousands in grants?

i got a 5700$ loan, and only 500$ was a grant....

and they give you 6 months after grad interest free
not 100% sure if 6 months are interest free, but you don't have to make a payment until 6 months, so they might charge you the 6months interest

Depends on your program too, if you're in a program that BC/Canada needs such a trades or doctor you can get thousands.

Last year I know of someone that received an initial grant of 2600 and 2000 afterwards for student loan foregiveness.

[twitchyzero]

But in my 4th year I found aot a healthcare bursary which was HUGE and got about 5000k.


AFAIK BC Health Care Bursary was never 5k..think it maxed out at $3500..moot point cause that's abolished thanks to the Liberals.

Last year I know of someone that received an initial grant of 2600 and 2000 afterwards for student loan foregiveness.
the forgiveness program and the majority of the grants are also abolished:woot2:

[GrapeDrink]

What I learned from receiving students was that they gave way more than required. It was gravy when the money came and honestly as a young adult I wasn't looking after my expenses all that well. They know how much tuition costs and yet they still lend out I would say 20-30% more than you need. No wonder they don't have enough to respond to the demand for all the students out there.

I think that is because they also factor in living expenses, can't you just return the extra? but I'm sure it would be tempting to keep it for whatever lol and that usually ends up being a frivolous expense if you not careful.

In response the post after(I Don't know how to multi quote lol fail), I don't understand why they even factor in an expected parental contribution, I think that is kinda unfair because its not like parents are actually like for sure going to contribute that amount and whatever. Isn't that kinda backwards? like if your parents were the type to be in the position of being well prepared, why would you even be applying for a student loan, like for me my parents got a mortgage and credit card debt to pay and the last thing I want to do is ask them for money.

[terkan]

13 years O_o how much loan did you take out???? I remember I have to pay aobut 21k to the gov at a rate of 550 (I was paying min payment but what I did was pay min and the save up a large amount and pay more at once, once a while). Took me 2years to pay it off. Man 13years.... your loan must be well over 100k ><

I think it's more to do with people who are in dead end degrees who take all these student loans without working part-time to help pay for their tuition.

Bottom line is if you're going to graduate with an arts degree, don't live off of student loans and expect to pay it off with ease (example taking 40-50k in loans when you will only make 30k/year after you graduate). It really only makes sense to live on student loans if the extra time you have from not having to work gets you a better paying degree that will pay dividends further down the road.

[snowball]

13 years O_o how much loan did you take out???? I remember I have to pay aobut 21k to the gov at a rate of 550 (I was paying min payment but what I did was pay min and the save up a large amount and pay more at once, once a while). Took me 2years to pay it off. Man 13years.... your loan must be well over 100k ><

Depends on the rate (not including sporadic payments) some people pay $500 a month, others choose to pay $100 a month with longer interest if that's all they can afford resulting in a long-term loan.

[GabAlmighty]

Atleast you guys got student loans.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

they should just stop giving out student loans.

and aiming for "higher" education should be a lower priority, cuz really, it's a real shitty investment.

[TheNewGirl]

they should just stop giving out student loans.

and aiming for "higher" education should be a lower priority, cuz really, it's a real shitty investment.

In hind sight, I agree. I totally wish I'd been nudged towards a trades program instead instead of a 4 year + degree. I'd be making a HELL of a lot more and not have started out up to my eyeballs in debt.

[GrapeDrink]

they should just stop giving out student loans.

and aiming for "higher" education should be a lower priority, cuz really, it's a real shitty investment.

I think its a shitty investment in the cases where they don't finish, I think they should be more involved in determining if you can even get to what you striving to achieve. For example I have friends that are trying to get into like business and whatever through transfer of faculty/college and their grades are no where near the cut off for the thing they want and their on student loans. So basically whats going to happen is when they realize it they will drop out or change their major to something entirely different probably having to take a bunch of other courses thus more loans lol and you know how this spiral is going to end. But I guess at the same time it's also on them to do their own research when their willingly spending that kind of money on their education.

[taylor192]

But I guess at the same time it's also on them to do their own research when their willingly spending that kind of money on their education.
No, it should be on us since our taxes heavily subsidize their education. If you want to know how much a degree really costs, ask an international student paying essentially the full price.

You can get into university with a D average from high school. That is sad - it is nolonger about "higher education", its about pumping out as many degrees to continually get more funding.

[Lomac]

No, it should be on us since our taxes heavily subsidize their education. If you want to know how much a degree really costs, ask an international student paying essentially the full price.

You can get into university with a D average from high school. That is sad - it is nolonger about "higher education", its about pumping out as many degrees to continually get more funding.

I was accepted to University of York in England. My cost as an international student including living fees? $130,000 for a 4 year degree condensed into 3 years. Ouch. And students over there ate complaining about the recent domestic cost of tuition increase? Lol
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[twitchyzero]

You can get into university with a D average from high school. That is sad - it is nolonger about "higher education", its about pumping out as many degrees to continually get more funding.

i dont think any full fledged canadian university accept borderline failure students.

[TheNewGirl]

You can get into university with a D average from high school. That is sad - it is nolonger about "higher education", its about pumping out as many degrees to continually get more funding.

For Colleges and these University/College hybrids yes. For Universities the bulk of their funding comes from research dollars. This is why it's easier to get into Douglas or Langera than it is to get into UBC.

[GabAlmighty]

I was accepted to University of York in England. My cost as an international student including living fees? $130,000 for a 4 year degree condensed into 3 years. Ouch. And students over there ate complaining about the recent domestic cost of tuition increase? Lol
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Damn that's pretty nice man. You had any scholarships or was that sum amount basically from otu of pocket?

[suzuka84]

why does it seem as though when education was well funded the NDP was in power?

[Nightwalker]

i dont think any full fledged canadian university accept borderline failure students.

Athabasca University has no entrance requirements.

[goo3]

why does it seem as though when education was well funded the NDP was in power?

Everything is well funded when you throw it on your credit card and just pay the interest.

Athabasca University has no entrance requirements.

Well, cash > grades.

I think you can weasel your way into some MBA programs with enough cash.

[goo3]

they should just stop giving out student loans.

and aiming for "higher" education should be a lower priority, cuz really, it's a real shitty investment.

some programs have a pretty good payoff

[Lomac]

Damn that's pretty nice man. You had any scholarships or was that sum amount basically from otu of pocket?

That would have been basically out of pocket. I opted out of going for a couple years, but the Uni still has my spot on hold. I'm just not sure I can justify that price for the chosen field.

[twitchyzero]

My cost as an international student including living fees? $130,000 for a 4 year degree condensed into 3 years.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)
sounds about right for even out-of-state students studying in the US. What field if you don't mind me asking?

Athabasca University has no entrance requirements.

full-fledged as in SFU, Queens, McGill, Waterloo etc...not some distance-ed online 'university'

[The_AK]

Athabasca University has no entrance requirements.
How is it a University? Somewhat off-topic, but how does an institution achieve a "University" status?

[Lomac]

sounds about right for even out-of-state students studying in the US. What field if you don't mind me asking?'

Forensic archaeology and biomedial anthropology. York is/was considered the premiere school for this. Plus I'd have more fun digging shit up in Europe than finding arrow heads over here... lol

Decided to change fields anyway. Currently doing school for mechanical engineering.

[baggdis300]

what are you going to go into?manufacturing, design, systems?

i am currently in 1st year @ bcit for mechanical engineering as well, going get diploma from there, then bounce over to a real university for my bachelors

[CW EK9]

why does it seem as though when education was well funded the NDP was in power?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think tuition in the mid 2000's also went up by a significant amount. I remember during my post-secondary days I saw tuition going from under 2k per sem to over 3k per sem.

[twitchyzero]

^ yes it's been raising year after year since 2003 (and it's there's no stopping) when NDP was no longer in power.