[StylinRed]

So Major News in the Phone World Surrounding Nokia

Recently in RSChat and even in some threads here i've been arguing with people about how awesome Symbian is :fullofwin: and I've heard a lot of comments about how people think Nokia should kill off Symbian.

Quite frankly I don't agree with this whatsoever; I believe where Nokia fails isn't in its hardware or software rather it's fault lies in it's Administration.

Nokia announces great products, great updates, makes a lot of promises in terms of release dates, yet when the time comes all we get is a Postponement of release; along with failures in advertising (there are none in North America) and a perceived/legitimate view that Nokia ignores North America (services, advertising, etc that doesn't arrive on our shores) has led to Nokias constant decline of Market share.

Sure Nokias still the top phone seller in the world, and only recently lost its top spot in smartphone sales to the Android Conglomerate (htc, google, samsung, etc; individually Nokia still reigns supreme) not even I can deny where Nokia is headed, if they weren't so large they may have already taken the Palm/WebOS route.

Nokia has only recently really fought back against their fall:
+They've restructured their executive list, got rid of their CEO and some lead VPs/Presidents and they looked outside for replacements (Stephen Elop being the most prominent change)

+Nokia has been releasing great in-house Apps/Features (Big Screen, Bubbles, Music WithMe, Conversations, Google Email Sync, Firmware updates, etc);

+A Viable Ovi Store (30,000+ apps, 7mil/day dls within a few months);

+Their QT SDK that allows cross-platforming for Application/services development between Symbian/MeeGo (which programmers have been flocking to)

Great steps have finally been taken but some of that 'Snails Pace' that Nokia is known for is rearing its ugly head again (the E7 was delayed and the N9 hasn't been revealed yet) and people are saying "Too Late Nokia"


Well it looks like Nokias new, Canadian, CEO (former Microsoft Office Head) Stephen Elop feels the same way. He's been speaking recently about Nokia needing to either "catalyse" or "join" an "ecosystem" people felt this means Elop wants to jump on board WP7 (since he's from Microsoft)

There's also been a rumor filled announcement of a big Speech that Elop will be holding this Friday, Feb 11 about Nokias approach for the coming years.

And now there's this Memo apparently from Mr. Elop to Nokia staffers that was leaked out (found on Engadget first who is confirming its real from their "sources")

And in it Elop equates Nokia to being on a 'Burning oil Platform' and it either allows the flames to engulf it or jump into the frigid waters below and hope that they'll survive.

Here it is:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/
Hello there,

There is a pertinent story about a man who was working on an oil platform in the North Sea. He woke up one night from a loud explosion, which suddenly set his entire oil platform on fire. In mere moments, he was surrounded by flames. Through the smoke and heat, he barely made his way out of the chaos to the platform’s edge. When he looked down over the edge, all he could see were the dark, cold, foreboding Atlantic waters.

As the fire approached him, the man had mere seconds to react. He could stand on the platform, and inevitably be consumed by the burning flames. Or, he could plunge 30 meters in to the freezing waters. The man was standing upon a “burning platform,” and he needed to make a choice.

He decided to jump. It was unexpected. In ordinary circumstances, the man would never consider plunging into icy waters. But these were not ordinary times – his platform was on fire. The man survived the fall and the waters. After he was rescued, he noted that a “burning platform” caused a radical change in his behaviour.

We too, are standing on a “burning platform,” and we must decide how we are going to change our behaviour.

Over the past few months, I’ve shared with you what I’ve heard from our shareholders, operators, developers, suppliers and from you. Today, I’m going to share what I’ve learned and what I have come to believe.

I have learned that we are standing on a burning platform.

And, we have more than one explosion – we have multiple points of scorching heat that are fuelling a blazing fire around us.

For example, there is intense heat coming from our competitors, more rapidly than we ever expected. Apple disrupted the market by redefining the smartphone and attracting developers to a closed, but very powerful ecosystem.

In 2008, Apple’s market share in the $300+ price range was 25 percent; by 2010 it escalated to 61 percent. They are enjoying a tremendous growth trajectory with a 78 percent earnings growth year over year in Q4 2010. Apple demonstrated that if designed well, consumers would buy a high-priced phone with a great experience and developers would build applications. They changed the game, and today, Apple owns the high-end range.

And then, there is Android. In about two years, Android created a platform that attracts application developers, service providers and hardware manufacturers. Android came in at the high-end, they are now winning the mid-range, and quickly they are going downstream to phones under €100. Google has become a gravitational force, drawing much of the industry’s innovation to its core.

Let’s not forget about the low-end price range. In 2008, MediaTek supplied complete reference designs for phone chipsets, which enabled manufacturers in the Shenzhen region of China to produce phones at an unbelievable pace. By some accounts, this ecosystem now produces more than one third of the phones sold globally - taking share from us in emerging markets.

While competitors poured flames on our market share, what happened at Nokia? We fell behind, we missed big trends, and we lost time. At that time, we thought we were making the right decisions; but, with the benefit of hindsight, we now find ourselves years behind.

The first iPhone shipped in 2007, and we still don’t have a product that is close to their experience. Android came on the scene just over 2 years ago, and this week they took our leadership position in smartphone volumes. Unbelievable.

We have some brilliant sources of innovation inside Nokia, but we are not bringing it to market fast enough. We thought MeeGo would be a platform for winning high-end smartphones. However, at this rate, by the end of 2011, we might have only one MeeGo product in the market.

At the midrange, we have Symbian. It has proven to be non-competitive in leading markets like North America. Additionally, Symbian is proving to be an increasingly difficult environment in which to develop to meet the continuously expanding consumer requirements, leading to slowness in product development and also creating a disadvantage when we seek to take advantage of new hardware platforms. As a result, if we continue like before, we will get further and further behind, while our competitors advance further and further ahead.

At the lower-end price range, Chinese OEMs are cranking out a device much faster than, as one Nokia employee said only partially in jest, “the time that it takes us to polish a PowerPoint presentation.” They are fast, they are cheap, and they are challenging us.

And the truly perplexing aspect is that we’re not even fighting with the right weapons. We are still too often trying to approach each price range on a device-to-device basis.

The battle of devices has now become a war of ecosystems, where ecosystems include not only the hardware and software of the device, but developers, applications, ecommerce, advertising, search, social applications, location-based services, unified communications and many other things. Our competitors aren’t taking our market share with devices; they are taking our market share with an entire ecosystem. This means we’re going to have to decide how we either build, catalyse or join an ecosystem.

This is one of the decisions we need to make. In the meantime, we’ve lost market share, we’ve lost mind share and we’ve lost time.

On Tuesday, Standard & Poor’s informed that they will put our A long term and A-1 short term ratings on negative credit watch. This is a similar rating action to the one that Moody’s took last week. Basically it means that during the next few weeks they will make an analysis of Nokia, and decide on a possible credit rating downgrade. Why are these credit agencies contemplating these changes? Because they are concerned about our competitiveness.

Consumer preference for Nokia declined worldwide. In the UK, our brand preference has slipped to 20 percent, which is 8 percent lower than last year. That means only 1 out of 5 people in the UK prefer Nokia to other brands. It’s also down in the other markets, which are traditionally our strongholds: Russia, Germany, Indonesia, UAE, and on and on and on.
How did we get to this point? Why did we fall behind when the world around us evolved?

This is what I have been trying to understand. I believe at least some of it has been due to our attitude inside Nokia. We poured gasoline on our own burning platform. I believe we have lacked accountability and leadership to align and direct the company through these disruptive times. We had a series of misses. We haven’t been delivering innovation fast enough. We’re not collaborating internally.

Nokia, our platform is burning.

We are working on a path forward — a path to rebuild our market leadership. When we share the new strategy on February 11, it will be a huge effort to transform our company. But, I believe that together, we can face the challenges ahead of us. Together, we can choose to define our future.

The burning platform, upon which the man found himself, caused the man to shift his behaviour, and take a bold and brave step into an uncertain future. He was able to tell his story. Now, we have a great opportunity to do the same.

Stephen.

Nokia's response to this leak?
“We do not comment on our internal communications, memos or documents, or their legitimacy (or lack thereof). For clarity on the current view of our CEO of Nokia, we suggest reviewing the transcript of our call about fourth-quarter results: http://seekingalpha.com/article/249092-nokia-ceo-discusses-q4-2010 -results-earnings-call-transcript “

However even The BBC have said they've confirmed the authenticity. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12403466


So where is Nokia headed? we'll find out Friday but for those who are crying "ANDROID", Know that all of Europes telecommunication companies are demanding that Nokia DO NOT Adopt Android; They don't want a Duopoly. Read that story here: http://www.businessinsider.com/telecos-nokia-android-2011-2 (there are many more)


So what do you guys think? :)



For the TLDR guys:
I started by listing Nokias strides in revival (which i feel are great steps but slow)
And Sounds like Nokias new CEO is going to shift it's business because they feel/know they're sinking (what that "shift" is isn't known)
Rumors say he's going to eliminate MeeGO (WHICH IS WTF??? It's taking off and has great praise; they're just slow to bring it to market)

February 11 (this Friday) we'll hear from Stephen Elop on Nokias future

[Vansterdam]

isnt nokia still number 1 mobile brand in asia lol

[Berzerker]

I have an N82 and I really don't use it to it's full potential. I really have no idea what it is actually capable of or apps that are available to me. It's just not as easy as smartphones. Perhaps I'm just lazy.

Berz out.

[StylinRed]

isnt nokia still number 1 mobile brand in asia lol

well its still the #1 phone maker period. they sold like 500million phones for 2010; 100million smartphones

But they've been losing their market share in the smart phone department quarter after quarter (even though the # of phones they're selling is going Up)

Mainly due to more and more Americans buying smartphones (but not buying a Nokia) so the numbers get pushed more away from their favour


But its got every Nokia fan on Edge and its got every Nokia Hater laughing and its got Everyone inbetween Hoping Android gets picked up overall its got everyone wanting to know what's going to happen on Friday (and maybe that was the point of the "Leak")

[TOS'd]

I knew you were a nokia fanboy.

[StylinRed]

i never denied it rofl i even said i was

[illicitstylz]

nothing beats nokia physical build quality imo. after holding a nokia, every other phone feels like a toy.

[threezero]

I have never met any smartphone user than went back to symbian after having experience the other os out there. Me included. I love nokia hardware but the clunkiness of the Ui and the frustrating experience of finding and installing an app just make me lost interest in it after a week. Symbian just look basically unchanged to me since like 7 years ago.

Nokia still get my vote for non smartphone ie dumb phones though.

Ovi app store is a joke. I dint see a good way out of this for nokia besides adopting android. With there track record meego is going to flop too
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[threezero]

nothing beats nokia physical build quality imo. after holding a nokia, every other phone feels like a toy.

Depends on which nokia are talking about. My n95 feels like a squeaky toy =\
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[carsncars]

Yeah, with the exception of my 6300, many of my Nokias has been reduced to a creaking plastic mess in months (mind you, solid, working creaking messes!). They did look cool though, and Nokia has never been afraid of trying UNIQUE form factors, which I love about them. (I seriously wanted an N92 for the longest time...)

Nokia phones used to be the ones to have--just a few years ago, the N95 8 GB was definitely one of the top phones to have (remember when the original N95 came out and they were going for $1100 on RS classifieds?). Where Nokia first messed up is when the first iPhone came out, and when Android came out. Sure, those first iterations were flawed, and they weren't adopted in large enough numbers to threaten Nokia, but they should've seen what was coming.

Series 60, as powerful at it was, didn't offer the polish that iOS did. Compared to Android, it lacked the openness and flexibility to draw developers in. Then when Nokia finally figured out that they needed something to compete, what'd they do? They released phones with craptastic resistive touch displays and slightly warmed-over versions of S40/S60 OSes.

While I think Nokia is still in a position where it could, technically, survive with their own OS, I don't think they have the resources to do it. HP can stick by WebOS because they have gobs of cash to pour into R&D (three new devices launched today), along with an existing line of products they can stick WebOS on--Nokia doesn't have that luxury.

It saddens me to say it, but I think the best thing Nokia could do now is adopt Android (or perhaps WP7?). I say Android because Nokia produces great, unique hardware and software; WP7 doesn't give them much software flexibility, but with Android they could customize it fairly deeply (a la Sony Ericsson's Xperia).

I want to see some awesome handsets out of Nokia ASAP! The N8 feels amazing and has a great camera. Toss a more modern OS with a good developer community on it, give the screen a boost in resolution, get broader carrier support, all while retaining some of that Nokia uniqueness in industrial design and software (not another generic Android phone thing, please), and then we'll see.

[StylinRed]

Yeah, with the exception of my 6300, many of my Nokias has been reduced to a creaking plastic mess in months (mind you, solid, working creaking messes!). They did look cool though, and Nokia has never been afraid of trying UNIQUE form factors, which I love about them. (I seriously wanted an N92 for the longest time...) you have to compare those phones with the phones that were available at that time and in comparison nokia was solid

Nokia phones used to be the ones to have--just a few years ago, the N95 8 GB was definitely one of the top phones to have (remember when the original N95 came out and they were going for $1100 on RS classifieds?). Where Nokia first messed up is when the first iPhone came out, and when Android came out. Sure, those first iterations were flawed, and they weren't adopted in large enough numbers to threaten Nokia, but they should've seen what was coming.
The N95 came out a few months after the 1st Apple Iphone

Series 60, as powerful at it was, didn't offer the polish that iOS did. Compared to Android, it lacked the openness and flexibility to draw developers in. Then when Nokia finally figured out that they needed something to compete, what'd they do? They released phones with craptastic resistive touch displays and slightly warmed-over versions of S40/S60 OSes.
agreed with most of that :)

While I think Nokia is still in a position where it could, technically, survive with their own OS, I don't think they have the resources to do it. HP can stick by WebOS because they have gobs of cash to pour into R&D (three new devices launched today), along with an existing line of products they can stick WebOS on--Nokia doesn't have that luxury.

Nokia has more than enough resources its R&D budget is like two-three times more than the other companies (granted much of that goes into areas other than their smart phones)

It saddens me to say it, but I think the best thing Nokia could do now is adopt Android (or perhaps WP7?). I say Android because Nokia produces great, unique hardware and software; WP7 doesn't give them much software flexibility, but with Android they could customize it fairly deeply (a la Sony Ericsson's Xperia).
Symbian and Meego offers more than Android, symbian/meego actually does and offers more where Android is currently limited; that with the addition of the fact that Telecom companies of Europe Don't want Nokia to adopt Android (when an Industry cries 'No you don't' you should listen)

I want to see some awesome handsets out of Nokia ASAP! The N8 feels amazing and has a great camera. Toss a more modern OS with a good developer community on it, give the screen a boost in resolution, get broader carrier support, all while retaining some of that Nokia uniqueness in industrial design and software (not another generic Android phone thing, please), and then we'll see.

i think what you're saying with Modern OS must be the UI?? and Nokias coming out with an entirely refreshed UI for Firmware 2.0 which was slated for the End of February but it sounds like it may be pushed back to March (sigh)

as for a boost in resolution i'll quote from some1 else

Go read up on Pentile vs regular RGB display resolutions.

This screen is better than the Nexus One's 480x800 pixels in size (252 pixels per inch) because the Nexus One's actual effective screen resolution is substantially less than that. The science is in how you count the pixels.
The PenTile subpixel layout on the Nexus One screen shows each pixel consists of a double-width blue or red subpixel element and a green subpixel element. The actual hardware resolution of the N1's display gives the illusion of 480x800, but no pixel contains all three colors.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars

[threezero]

The whole point isn't that s60 isn't powerful. It's because it's Ui is dated and frustrating to use.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[illicitstylz]

Depends on which nokia are talking about. My n95 feels like a squeaky toy =\
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)
sorry should have specified, E71

[palepilsenpin0y]

I've been a loyal Nokia user since day 1 (Started off with a Nokia 3210 more than a decade ago and now currently sporting the N86 8MP. Combined with a jailbroken iTouch, it's pretty much a complete & perfect combo).

I actually kinda agree that Nokia can be considered a sinking ship. With the Andoid, iPhone, Xperia Play, Windows 7 Phone, and hell even the goddamn Blackberry, it's hard for them to compete. They're still doing very well (particularly in Asia), but I can picture them going obsolete over time (in North America, at least). Which is a shame because they make highly decent phones (with AMAZING cameras I might add). It's a tough market after all.

[Senna4ever]

nothing beats nokia physical build quality imo. after holding a nokia, every other phone feels like a toy.
I'm willing to bet Motorola's iDEN (Telus MIKE) phones are tougher.

[StylinRed]

IF anyone's interested in the Elop speech it's tonight @ 2:00am here LiveCast (http://www.thomson-webcast.net/uk/dispatching/?event_id=2dd7139793f7dc9f43109186244f14dc&portal_id=369401748e8249f142a700d8098a3473) maybe for the Insomniacs like moi ;)

[TheNewGirl]

Symbian is still the number one most used mobile OS world wide. They just have 0 share of the north american market.

[StylinRed]

Well looks like those early reports of Android being on Top of worldwide marketshare are False



http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/grtner-600x346.jpg
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/10/gartner-and-idc-dispute-androids-dominance-over-symbian-in-q4-2/



look @ how many more phones nokia sold compared to 2009

Sure the American smartphone market grew, which accounts for their boost in sales but overall Nokias still top dog by far they just need a piece of North America

[TheNewGirl]

They really don't need a piece of the north american market at all. The NA market is crowded, already populated and likely to cost them more than their return. They're better off leaving staying in the markets they dominate.

Android is still though, hands down the fastest GROWING mobile OS on the market. Mostly because it's not tied to specific hardware like the others.

[6793026]

the iphone is growing in china and even though China has a lot of teens using iphones, there are still a mass of people still using nokia phone. they are simple and it just works. China, India and maybe Russia? still have a lot of people with min. computer usage so iphone, and crackberry aren't that huge.

Iphone is great don't get me wrong, but nokia is probably the only company that makes cell phones. iphone came out with 3,4 and soon 5 in the summer? How much more will it change? I'm assuming it'll have a bigger screen, faster OS, and larger storage.

What has iphone really done that was epic or cell phone worthy. I know facetime is great but it's a dying app that no one ever uses.

give it a few yrs, nokia will bounce back again and apple needs some new ideas for phones.

[raygunpk]

Did you shed tears while writing this up?

[StylinRed]

:rofl: oh shit it was a stab at me but i still cracked up:haha:

[threezero]

I have a feeling nokia is going to make annoucement to jump on the windows 7 phone os
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[StylinRed]

Sounds more like a software partnership as in Silverlight, Xbox Live, Office (which is already there), Zune (nokias music store is non-existent in North America)

[Culverin]

Symbian and Meego offers more than Android, symbian/meego actually does and offers more where Android is currently limited; that with the addition of the fact that Telecom companies of Europe Don't want Nokia to adopt Android (when an Industry cries 'No you don't' you should listen)


I think that's flawed logic there.
Just because the industry (telecom companies) don't want it, doesn't mean it's good for us, the consumer.
However, they have been in the game longer, and can better predict the damage a duopoly would do.

When a company gains too much power, they start locking things down trying to make the consumer play their game and do things their way.
It's very much how Apple and Sony behave.
By the very same logic, I believe that's why so many of us like the PC platform.
We don't have to conform to how companies want us to use the hardware they sell us.

Having more options on the table would allow us to keep supporting open systems, consider it a check against a closed system.

The more more choices, we the consumer have, the better off we are in the long run.
But consumers are too short sighted.

Shining Example?
Just because I like what the mobile phone market would look like with a strong Nokia, doesn't mean I'm going to sacrifice owning a better smart phone for the next 3 years.

That is called fan boyism.

[CP.AR]

I wouldn't say it's a "sinking ship" per se, but a ship that's just sitting there while the others zoom by it. That being said though, I have a N82, and I really do think that thing is the best phone ever - If I were to choose one phone (between my Galaxy S and the N82) for use forever, I'd pick the N82 without question.

[winson604]

I have never met any smartphone user than went back to symbian after having experience the other os out there. Me included. I love nokia hardware but the clunkiness of the Ui and the frustrating experience of finding and installing an app just make me lost interest in it after a week. Symbian just look basically unchanged to me since like 7 years ago.

Nokia still get my vote for non smartphone ie dumb phones though.

Ovi app store is a joke. I dint see a good way out of this for nokia besides adopting android. With there track record meego is going to flop too
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Agreed. I won't deny i'm a Nokia fan boy. Since I have started using cell phones over 10 years ago I have gone through countless phones only 2 of which were not Nokia. The 2 phones were Moto's back in day when Rogers used to be Cantel. My last phone the e71 I was super frustrated with it's dumb Ovi app crap and the slow ass internet. Finally I had enough and I have converted to a Blackberry user. If Nokia doesn't make some changes to their smart phones I will never go back.

[Sky_2000]

"Nokia and Microsoft Announce Plans for a Broad Strategic Partnership to Build a New Global Mobile Ecosystem"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg

[StylinRed]

So the Press release is out (not the actual announcement but all the info for the press prior to the announcemnt)


and Nokia is picking up WP7 as their primary smartphone OS and MeeGO will still be developed and Symbian will still be used.

WP7 sounds like its going to be the "transition" OS although it will take a dominant role ;)


and the Head of MEEGO has been fired (guess he took too long to get MeeGO finished so he's fired)

There will still be a Meego device released this year but it sounds like MeeGO has become Maemo just 1 device and that's it (N900)



edit: i should make it a bit clearer, Symbian is going to be phased out slowly and MeeGo is pretty much dead they're just going to release the 1 device they've been working on (N9) and its going to become an Open Source OS that sits on the back burner.


- A new leadership team and organizational structure with a clear focus on speed, results and accountability...

...

With Nokia’s planned move to Windows Phone as its primary smartphone platform, Symbian becomes a franchise platform, leveraging previous investments to harvest additional value. This strategy recognizes the opportunity to retain and transition the installed base of 200 million Symbian owners. Nokia expects to sell approximately 150 million more Symbian devices in the years to come.

Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year.

...

Alberto Torres has stepped down from the management team, effective February 10 to pursue other interests outside the company. (VP of MEEGO)
Elop was Gates' Trojan Horse as this now famous image depicts (started as a joke but looks like its true)
http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/elop-600x480.jpg




A Plus is that they're merging techs so best of both worlds downside is .... since Symbian is getting phased out no ones going to be developing for it anymore (and just when they got so many people on board and were offering million dollar+ prizes for those who created the best apps) My N8 likely won't be seeing anything new and awesome outside of what's already almost complete.

The Meego device... might be fun the N900 does have a tonne of neat features etc developed for it by the community.... but shieeeeet

really disappointing -_-




edit2: this really sounds like a deal for Microsoft rather than Nokia....

Microsoft gets Nokia a company that sells Half a Billion Phones a Year to install Microsofts OS...
Microsoft gets Nokia Maps;
Microsoft gets the OVI Store
Microsoft gets Nokias Mobile Camera Technology / team....

Nokia gets Bing and a shitty OS that isn't even doing well on its own...

[Spectre_Cdn]

Hrm... I'm still a Nokia fanboy up until now, but that might change with Microsoft becoming so involved and Nokia phasing out its uniqueness in its own OS:\
At least my E71 should still last a while since it's build Nokia tough :o

[StylinRed]

The Developers that Nokia has attracted/begged to join recently are in an Uproar... after all the time they've spent and are spending Nokia turns around and says "haha suckers we're killing those OS's"

they're starting a shitstorm over on forum.nokia (where developers gather)

[StylinRed]

OMG.....


Elop confirms that Meego and Symbian are Dead.
MeeGo will be considered a learning, exploratory OS for future experimentation

Symbian is HUUGGEEE 200million users and so it will be a 1-2yr Transition Period to kill off Symbian and get users to move to WP7.

Nokia WILL BE paying royalties to Microsoft and Microsoft will be paying pebbles for features it takes.


FINLAND Employees will be Cut "Finland is our home, but... we need to cut costs around the world; There will be substantial cuts in employees" (FYI Nokia just built a HQ in Silicon Valley)

[Culverin]

good lord. seriously? :failed:

I'm not a fan of nokia, but i don't have any ill will towards them.


pardon me for using a dinosaur of an analogy here, but m$ trumped apple the first time over by creating the backbone, and letting the hardware makers do their stuff, but the success grew because the platform was open.

Sure, they could have more control of their product now, but they are trying to play Apple's game. Why would you want to play their game? That's what they are good at!
Go do what you're good at? Building something that we want to use, and we want the backbone for.

I absolutely cannot stand pretentious software that thinks it's too smart for itself. Example? New windows live messenger.

Anyways, sorry for the tangent, I don't see this working out for Nokia, at all.
If nothing else, it only strengthens Android's position.


Yes, I'm an android fanboy, but if you see my earlier comment, i think more open competition is better.

[StylinRed]

well Android was the 2nd OS i liked :)

I guess that's where i'll be headed even thinking of ditching my N8 maybe ill wait for the moment an Android phone comes out with a camera on par

[sonick]

Wired article about Nokia going WM7:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/02/microsoft-and-nokia-team-up-to-build-windows-phones/

As others mentioned, I think Android would have been a better fit for them, allowing them to customize the User Experience moreso than WM7 would allow them to, I'd think.

Plus, WM7 is still in its infancy, who knows if it'll end up like WebOS...

[TheNewGirl]

I agree, android would likely have been a better OS for them as it's already growing rapidly in their core market place. This deal is totally to Microsoft's benefit but I don't know how it will help Nokia.

[carsncars]

Good-bye Symbian, hello Windows Phone 7. Meego sticks around. Nokia's other services are being integrated/assimilated into Microsoft's offerings (e.g., Ovi Maps into Bing). Some serious reshuffling in Nokia's executive structure and roadmap. Looks like Nokia is going to be ditching a bunch of jobs as well (unfortunately).

The question is: now that Nokia won't be offering a unique OS, will more people adopt Nokia for WP7? Or will people leave Nokia's offerings because the only thing differentiating them from HTC and Samsung is hardware?

I hope Nokia can turn out some awesome, awesome hardware.

[Jsunu]

I agree, android would likely have been a better OS for them as it's already growing rapidly in their core market place. This deal is totally to Microsoft's benefit but I don't know how it will help Nokia.

What I think Nokia is trying to get from this deal is the infrastructure provided by Microsoft when they make this deal (bing etc.). If they were to move to an android platform all they would receive is a mobile phone OS platform.

Whether or not this will be a smart move in the future is yet to be seen. Personally Android OS seems like a better fit than WP7. Yet again, the windows platform is still in its infancy and it could still provide it self down the road.

[RCubed]

Nokia has always seemed as the "big boy" of the mobile world with a more professional or "business-esque" image. I think using Windows will allow it to maintain that image.

I personally think this is a good move. Windows will have a well known manufacture to run its new Mobile OS and Nokia will have a well developed OS to base it's phones on.
If Nokia used android, it would be "just another android phone."

[carsncars]

I personally think this is a good move. Windows will have a well known manufacture to run its new Mobile OS and Nokia will have a well developed OS to base it's phones on.
If Nokia used android, it would be "just another android phone."

+1 On going with WP7 vs. Android. It goes back on what I said before, but I think between the two, WP7 is the better choice for Nokia. Android phones come a dime a dozen these days--WP7 will, hopefully, allow Nokia to retain some uniqueness in the market. They mentioned themselves that Android would give too big a risk of "commoditization". Nokia can't compete with HTC and Samsung in the Android arena, while keeping R&D in Europe (costs are too high in comparison..?).

My question now is: what fills the middle ground? In places other than North America, S60 has kind of provided a stopgap middle ground for those that wanted smart phones, but where iOS, WP7, and Android devices are too expensive. I could see cheap Android devices filling the middle-ground void quickly... Yes, S60 is a dying platform, but it's a dying platform used by many--I think Nokia needs to consider where those users are going to go as S60 devices are phased out.

[ecsw]

They had good opportunity with Meego, but they didnt see it. :(
I am glad I sold my N900 last month.

On the bright side, at least MS is allowing Nokia to customrize WP7 more which they didnt for HTC. Friend works in HTC told me how MS wont let them intergrate Sense UI for WP7 and they were not really happy with that.

[Jsunu]

They had good opportunity with Meego, but they didnt see it. :(
I am glad I sold my N900 last month.

On the bright side, at least MS is allowing Nokia to customrize WP7 more which they didnt for HTC. Friend works in HTC told me how MS wont let them intergrate Sense UI for WP7 and they were not really happy with that.

I hate Microsoft's stance on closed software systems. I understand with Apple because they are the only manufacturer of their device, and thereby is able to make these devices closed to any modification.

But with MS, multiple companies develop phones for WP7 which can mean they can only really define themselves through hardware. While I understand they want to prevent the fragmentation and inconsistancy they experienced before, they should allow for slight variations (like sense UI from HTC, which is pretty awesome IMO).

[StylinRed]

http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/stephen_steve.jpg

Another Microsoft employee has been appointed Nokia USA's President

http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Chris-Weber-Nokia.jpg
Chris Weber

Total, complete, takeover


As for Microsoft getting Ovi Maps, Nokia actually makes the Maps for Microsoft already through Navteq (which is owned by Nokia)



Nokia's stock dropped 14% today and it's expected that in the coming days Microsoft may buy a stake in Nokia just to "seal the deal" -_-

And 1000 Nokia employees walked off the job (they'll likely be fired soon anyways but still)

[freakshow]

I hate Microsoft's stance on closed software systems. I understand with Apple because they are the only manufacturer of their device, and thereby is able to make these devices closed to any modification.

But with MS, multiple companies develop phones for WP7 which can mean they can only really define themselves through hardware. While I understand they want to prevent the fragmentation and inconsistancy they experienced before, they should allow for slight variations (like sense UI from HTC, which is pretty awesome IMO).A closed stance means consistency. If you followed the death of J2ME, among many other things, was the issue of fragmentation. Over the years, it became too diverse, and therefore, harder to develop for.

WM 5/6, while being closed, still left lots of room for manufacturers to include their own drivers in the ROM itself, and being a Windows platform, it was also easy to develop for (talking mostly B2B here).

Android is a great platform, but definitely has the potential to suffer from the same kind of fragmentation that assisted J2ME's death. Although I'm sure Google has some plans for that.

Nokia was clearly, quickly, losing market share, and on the same path, it's debatable where they would be at the end of 2011, nevermind 2012.

As a developer for J2ME, BB, iPhone, Android, and WM 5/6, I'm not sure yet what to think of their move to WP7. I would definitely say that potential is there, but only time will tell us how they execute it.

[StylinRed]

A 2 year transition window with no known date for the release of their first WP7 device

Not to mention they're dumping the OS with the largest market-share by leaps and bounds for an OS with the tiniest Market share + they're firing their employees working on Symbian + Meego

Look @ their R&D forecast

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/nokiawebcast-4.pdf-page-32-of-38.jpg

that's a lot of symbian employees getting fired

It's no surprise their stock is plummeting That's why they're throwing mock-up Nokia WP7 devices and stating that they're allowed to customize WP7 completely but wont -_-


mock-up

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/11x021198h73vx.jpg

[wasabisashimi]

android (HTC/Samsung) stole the show when there was iphone, and Nokia back then, I hope whatever path they take, we can see some more nokia innovations . Built quality on those phones are just superb!

[StylinRed]

as for the condition of Meego

The Linux Foundation issued a statement (they officially supported Meego btw)

Originally posted by Jim Zemlin

“The Linux Foundation is disappointed in Nokia’s decision today to choose Microsoft as the primary platform for its mobile phones. Tough times give birth to difficult decisions that we don’t always agree with, but open source is — at its core — about choice. We believe that open source software is more than a sum of its parts, and the market is currently bearing that out. The Linux Foundation is here to enable collaboration among its members and the Linux community, and we invite participation in MeeGo and any of our other many projects and programs. In its 20th anniversary year, Linux is a significant underpinning in every computing segment. Full steam ahead.”
http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/02/linux-foundation-meego-nokia-jim-zemlin/



Oh and Intel still backs Meego hoping to try and release that medfield device

[way2quik]

My poor N8. So, the N8 was the most pre-ordered phone in Nokia history yet still unable to save its dying OS.

[yuusha]

I have to say those concept Nokia WP7 phones are looking damn sexy.

I wonder what Nokia's going to do in order to differentiate its phones from other WP7 devices... what it's going to do to bring WP7 to a state where it can take back market share from Google and Apple.

[FerrariEnzo]

i havent used a windows mobile OS before so i really cant say if its a wrong move for nokia but i think nokia would have been better off with Android instead..

[PUPPY]

so what's going to happen to the n9 now? if it comes out it'll be using a dead/dying OS ..

[StylinRed]

it may not even come out at all pupps

and yeah there really isnt any point in buying a Symbian or Meego device since there won't be any support

[StylinRed]

I have to say those concept Nokia WP7 phones are looking damn sexy.

I wonder what Nokia's going to do in order to differentiate its phones from other WP7 devices... what it's going to do to bring WP7 to a state where it can take back market share from Google and Apple.


Well apparently Nokia have full allowance to customize WP7 however they want however Elop says they won't be doing that because they don't want fragmentation from the rest of the pack -_-


wp7 can't even cut&paste or multitask etc etc atm -_-

earliest WP7 Nokia phone won't be getting released until Christmas @ the earliest (knowing Nokia that means 2012)

Stupid move by Elop, imo, to announce that SYmbian/Meego are dead and obliterating the R&D budget for Symbian a year before they'll even have a WP7 phone

[Hehe]

I think it was a very stupid move by Nokia.

Elop, as of now, is just a trojan horse for MS. If everything turns sour, MS can either walk away or buy Nokia at bargain prices.

For a phone company the size of Nokia, I don't see why they didn't choose to offer phones in various platforms. Better yet, imagine they start to build a Nokia-compatible device, a hardware platform where all OSes are an option Sorta like how a PC is able to accomodate MacOS, Windows, Linux... etc

Nowadays, what makes a mobile platform stands out is SERVICE!! iOS has an excellent app store while android has the openess plus perfect integration with google apps.

If I were Elop, I would go multi-platform while starting to develop mobile services (from free to premium and beyond current offerings.. like payment gateway, security... etc) for all platforms. A seemlessly cross-platform service provider beyond what google has to offer to iOS and android.

With BETTER services once in place comparing to other competition, they can offer phones with some degrees on optimization and advantage. (Similar to what HTC is doing with SENSE) With the resource that Nokia has, I am sure they could pull sth awesome off

[KidRobot]

lol.. ms knows how to take over

[PUPPY]

it may not even come out at all pupps

and yeah there really isnt any point in buying a Symbian or Meego device since there won't be any support

which means the e7 is going to be a useless phone too
i was looking forward to buying a new nokia soon :speechless:

[breh]

Good move. I would've preferred Android but ANYTHING is better than sticking with a dinosaur like Symbian.

[moomooCow]

Yeah I was really looking forward to getting the E7 but if they're not going to support symbian any more then that seems like it'd be a stupid choice if I bought it.

[PUPPY]

Good move. I would've preferred Android but ANYTHING is better than sticking with a dinosaur like Symbian.
you seem to be the only one saying this
why do you think nokia partnering up with MS is a good thing? explain

[Senna4ever]

Why do you think it's not a bad idea?

[StylinRed]

I'll kind of be re-iterating here but

it wouldnt be a horrible idea if they didnt announce the death of symbian when the earliest we can expect a wp7 device is at the end of the year that's if Microsoft creates the Dev tools without issue for Nokia in time (they aren't going to be creating the os/developing it for nokia at all other than creating dev tools) And then it depends on Nokia releasing something on schedule.... (lol)


By announcing Symbians death a year-2years before Nokia won't be dependent on it Elop essentially killed support for Symbian externally (many developers have ceased projects that are in development) and has killed support internally (if you look at the R&D forecast). He killed interest by the public in it as well who's going to buy a symbian smartphone when there's no support and no devs?


Also WP7 has a lot of hurdles it has to get through atm

wp7 currently doesnt have:
no system-wide file manager
no Bluetooth file transfers
no USB mass storage mode
no Flash (nor Silverlight) support in the browser
dependent on Zune software for file management and syncing
no video calls
new ringtones available only through Marketplace
music player lacks equalizer presets
no multitasking
no copy/paste
no DivX/XviD video support
Bing maps doesn’t have free Navigation (supposedly there will be a free version on nokia phones except it will be riddled with Advertisements)
no internet tethering support
no handwriting recognition support
no support for usb-on-the-go
no support for hdmi

Everything Symbian had...


Not only this but Nokia has given up its technology to Microsoft technology that will be integrated into WP7 for use across all device makers using WP7 (lg, samsung, htc, etc)

How will Nokia remain Unique here? when all WP7 phones will be running Ovi Maps (likely to be coined as Bing Maps) using the OviStore etc etc etc etc (dont really want to reiterate so much)

And on top of all that Nokia will be paying Microsoft Royalties and not the other way around! (as part of the deal they've given many features away to microsoft for free such as Maps)

+ Nokia has pissed off a massive list of Developers and partners such as Intel and its QT wing (with clients like Dreamworks etc, who upgraded all their animation tools to run on QT) all its supporters and partners essentially


So now Nokia will be in limbo for, at the very least, 1year until the WP7 devices roll out during this time they could die... literally

They've risked it all with nothing to fall back on... when they could have easily placed safeguards until they were 100% ready with WP7



i must have missed a lot here but that should get the point across

[StylinRed]

So this was rumored for awhile that Stephen Elop is a major Microsoft Share Holder and there is a conflict of interest with him running Nokia and then handing the company over to Microsoft


Well... it turns out that Elop is the 7th largest Microsoft Shareholder

However supposedly he began divesting 60% of those shares when joining Nokia... still a shareholder though

[goo3]

you seem to be the only one saying this
why do you think nokia partnering up with MS is a good thing? explain

If this strategy works, the payoff is bigger than with their other options. The point is to grow the pie first. Then compete within the WP7 pie, which they could do easily. Remember, Symbian was open to other handset makers at one time. The critical point is that, right now, they have no pie in the high-margin segments. They need one badly.

Nokia sees this as a win-win deal. Their competitors are taking away their profits and mkt share. Microsoft is not one of them.

MS gets eyeballs on their platform, an easy way to victory if they execute well. Nokia gets access to a software house they feel can compete with Apple and Google, and they get a competitive OS sooner rather than waiting for Meego, whenever that's ready at whatever quality; their own software capabilities are lacking compared to the powerhouses. The analysts are taking a really narrow view with the royalty issue, forgetting Nokia also has huge leverage to negotiate with.

Symbian is like Windows.. a legacy OS full of baggage that needed to be dumped. Being a volume leader doesn't mean anything if you're not making enough money to compete.

[StylinRed]

Nokia has 9 Shareholders trying to get Elop fired and the Microsoft deal adjusted so that WP7 is merely an addition to Nokias lineup

and for Symbian to not be killed off and Meego to be invested in more

http://www.neowin.net/news/nokia-shareholders-want-ceo-elop-ousted?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

their facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nokia-Plan-B/200700413277858?sk=photos

Also Nokias employee union is demanding/trying to get 100,000€ compensation for all the employees Nokia is going to let go

EDIT lol they caved in

After reviewing the feedback we’ve received from investors on our Plan B, we have decided not to carry on with it.

In the last 36 hours we were contacted by hundreds of individual shareholders (owning anywhere form 10 to 400,000 Nokia shares) pledging to support us by proxy voting or by personally attending the AGM.

Nevertheless, the responses that we received from institutional investors were not encouraging. These institutions have a fiduciary responsibility to their customers and are legally bared from supporting radical initiatives like seating a bunch of kids on the board of directors. If they do not agree with Nokia’s plans, they are better off simply divesting and putting their money in other companies that better fit their investing strategy (which is exactly what they have been doing).

We also realized that by the time our Plan B would kick in, most remaining software talent in Nokia would have already left the company, so it would be a really uphill battle to pick up things from there.

This is it from us. It’s up to you what to do with your money. We’ll stop short of endorsing NokiaPlanC.com or NokiaPlanX.com even though we think they are both very good ideas.

just 2 days after starting

[crazyazn]

I think if Nokia does it right, it could turn out to be a lifesaver...kinda like the Milestone for Motorola. (I hope it comes out this way)

However, it is much easier to fk this up and screw themselves over and maybe even say byebye.

[StylinRed]

Probably doesn't matter now, at all since Elops decision


but The Ovi Store makes more money than the Android store; Ovi only recently got up to 30,000 apps (a tonne are free or have free versions) and Android has 150,000 apps (yes i understand a tonne are free too)

http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/IHS-mobile-app-store-market.png

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20032012-37.html

but its just part of the wtf Elop? look the changes are working you just had to give them more of a push

[Alphamale]

Nokia has green light to customize Windows Phone 7 as they please

Nokia Executive and Board Member Niklas Savander said in an interview that under the Microsoft-Nokia deal the Finns are free to customize the mobile OS as they see fit.

No other maker was allowed so far to meddle with the looks and feel of Windows Phone 7.

However under the terms of the new agreement with Nokia, Microsoft has obviously loosened the grip a bit.

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_has_green_light_to_customize_windows_phone_7 _as_they_please-news-2340.php

[StylinRed]

yea Elop was saying that but he also says that Nokia WONT be taking advantage of that because they don't want Fragmentation from the rest of WP7

[ae101]

now why the fuck would nokia go with wp7, cuz seriously thinking about it nokia should be going with meego as its much smarter cuz their new, it would boost them up while at the same time it would give meego the edge as it now theres one more choice to make pick out your smartphone a little harder

Elop is really getting on my nerves, has that jackof-a-elop tried the wp7 yet cuz that os is pretty crappy with a lot of things not supported, i dun who would go for a wp7 os unless there forced (my friend was force to get it since telus ran out of phones)

now im very curious to know where is meego, gonna go cuz they look pretty sweet

[valent|n0]

I wonder what's gonna happen to meego OS - they are part of nokia right?

[StylinRed]

MeeGO is a Intel/Nokia thing supported by the Linux Foundation

Nokia cut their investment into Meego the day Elop got on the job

the Intel CEO Otellini(sp?) said that Elop felt they couldn't afford the investment into Meego


Nokia will be producing 1 Meego device but leaving development largely (they'll still be supporting it but very minimally) up to the community and IBM to deal with and if things move along well they may pick up Meego again down the road (it's basically a Beta App atm that may or may not see further support)

[threezero]

While we are on te topic of win7 os anybody that have use it extensively can comment on how it compares to say iOS and android?
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Hehe]

I guess this is trojan horse part two... After sinking Nok low enough with WP7 annoucement.

Eldar Murtazin, a source who has been fairly reliable on Nokia news just came out saying MS will buy Nokia's mobile phone division next week.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/16/eldar-murtazin-microsoft-will-enter-negotiations-to-buy-nokias/

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2011/05/16/nokia-would-they-sell-phone-biz-to-microsoft/?mod=yahoobarrons

What can Nokia still do without a mobile phone division?!?