REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events

Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-14-2011, 12:19 PM   #1
WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bowen Island
Posts: 1,605
Thanked 525 Times in 148 Posts
Failed 313 Times in 50 Posts
MMA fighters get plastic surgery to bleed less

Coles Notes:
-Many fighters have history of improperly sutured cuts.
-Surgeon inserts cadaver tissue in areas
-No more bleeding
-Fighter lasts longer without being called out due to bloodiness

http://ca.gizmodo.com/5781297/how-mm...-to-bleed-less


For many MMA fighters, surgeon Frank Stile offers the ultimate combo: more fighting and less bleeding.

Watching the blood drive known as the Ultimate Fighting Championship one evening in 2007, Las Vegas plastic surgeon Frank Stile sat talking to his guests about the unfortunate nature of cuts. Eventually, the question was posed: Wouldn't it be something if he could take out the raw hamburger - OK, scar tissue - that often predisposes skin to lacerations and replace it with something that would have a fighter looking less like a Fangoria cover?

His guests agreed wholeheartedly. One of them happened to be MMA, or mixed martial arts, fighter Nick Diaz, who had just suffered his first professional loss by stoppage in a fight against K.J. Noons.

With the sharp hands of an athlete dabbling in pro boxing, Noons had sliced Diaz's face to ribbons. It was skill, but it was also the result of dozens of improperly sutured cuts Diaz had previously suffered in his fighting life. They had only healed superficially, leaving behind ground chuck underneath.

Stile had a suggestion: What if he dug out the gunk and replaced it with the "fresh" tissue of a cadaver? Sure, the procedure had been used for cosmetic purposes, but never for athletic performance. And if Stile's hunch was correct, the stronger, reinforced skin might be better than Diaz's baseline - as good as someone who had never been cut at all.

Diaz would be his first attempt, and Stile would do the procedure for free.

Diaz, whose entire livelihood is tied up in his ability to withstand violence long enough to dish out his own, agreed. Even better, the procedure happened without a hitch. Diaz was supposed to wait 90 days before sparring, but Stile figured he wouldn't listen. Still, in the nine fights he's had since, Diaz has barely bled an ounce.

The Enhanced Athlete's New Edge

In "Steel," Richard Matheson's 1956 short story, the author described a future in which fight fans cheered ravenously as large robot athletes engineered to bash one another's CPUs in. (The tale was adapted into a Twilight Zone episode with Lee Marvin, and it'll be reworked again for the Hugh Jackman-led Reel Steel in the fall.)

In the pre-steroid, pre-creatine era, Matheson didn't realize how provocative his idea would become: that audiences would expect athletes to be something other than human, and that many millions of dollars would be spent in pursuit of that goal.

In the case of prizefighting, we want athletes healthy enough to get hurt. And the scalpel is rapidly approaching the steroid, supplement or loaded glove as the new edge.

This is where Stile comes in. Bulky, broad-shouldered, with the features of a B-movie heavy, his Las Vegas practice is in the nucleus of the country's exploding MMA scene. Since his success with Diaz, he's performed the scar-tissue removal surgery on six other fighters. Some semi-pros have even come to him after a single cut in sparring, nervous they might be predisposed to career-altering lacerations.

"When these guys have their original injuries, whether it's in training or in an amateur fight or a pro fight, it all hinges on how well these wounds are addressed," Stile says. "Usually, they're closed by non-plastic surgeons, by emergency room physicians or some guy at the event."

Instead of being shut in layers, only the epidermis (the outermost surface) is stitched. The next time a set of knuckles strikes that area, it's like punching through tissue paper; the skin is closed again, poorly, and the cycle repeats. It's unstable material, and it has cost Diaz, as well as many others, not only fights but also the winner's share of the purse.

It's All in the Bones

In Diaz's case, the issue was compounded by his bone structure.

"Wherever there's a bony prominence or a sharp ridge on an anatomical area on their skull that creates a sharp edge - on the cheek, the orbital rib on the eyebrow, the bridge of the nose - you're going to get cut," Stile says. "If you notice a guy like Oscar De La Hoya, he's a handsome guy still, but it's not because he hasn't been hit.

"It's because he doesn't have the predisposition to [get] cut like some of these other guys."

The surgery for Diaz meant doing something about his sharp bones.

After marking the borders of the scar, Stile wheeled Diaz into the operating theater and sliced his brow open. All of the scar tissue underneath the epidermis was removed. With the bone revealed, Stile rasped it down with a chisel to a smooth surface.

In place of the scar tissue went a Neoform collagen pledget, made from a cadaver's sterilized donor tissue. Stile sewed it onto the periosteum, a covering over the bone that acts as an anchor. This time, Stile sewed the wound from the inside out.

MMA fighter Nick Diaz, just moments before Stile operates on his face.

For a time, Diaz looked like, in Stile's words, "Frankenstein's monster" while they waited to see if the pledget would absorb and reduce his brow line.

Eventually, it did. "There was a very steep learning curve for both of us," Stile says. "Fortunately, it worked."

At the time of the surgery, Diaz's ring efficacy was questionable. Today, he's the welterweight champion of Strikeforce, the No. 2 MMA outfit behind the UFC.

Diaz mentioned the surgery to former UFC welterweight Marcus Davis, who had been stitched at least 70 times in his career. He soon became Stile's second patient, and can now wrestle with his son without fear of a collision opening up his flimsy brow.

The Ethics of Surgical Fixes

Stile sees the surgery as corrective, not enhancing. He's merely trying to undo the damage done by a progressive series of inept sutures: "You should see the shit I take out of people's faces. Some people have silk sutures, which veterinarians don't even use anymore."

Now that word has spread, pro fighters who've been cut have trekked to Stile's Vegas office specifically to have stitches pulled in hope of a fresh start.

But Stile also asserts the new skin might indeed be as good as that of someone who had never been cut at all. And if a fighter with "virgin skin" meets another with a Krazy Glued brow, who stands the better chance?

Ask bioethicist Andy Miah, Director of the Creative Futures Research Centre at the University of the West of Scotland about Matheson's vision of a superfighter, and he'll tell you that the idea of corrupting sport or human performance is a ship that's long since sailed.

"We crossed that line many decades ago with the discovery of penicillin or anesthesia, then with the boon in cosmetic and functional surgeries," he said. "Sports will follow, and fighting will lead the way."

‘If you tell an athlete, "hey, you can have one more surgery that's going to enable you to extend your career five years," I think a significant portion would agree to something like that.'

The speculation involves muscle transfers, which could see a surgeon taking a quadriceps muscle and inserting it into the biceps.

Adding stiffness - incidentally, that could be scar tissue - to a joint like an ankle or elbow could make an MMA fighter less susceptible to submissions. Cartilage around the trachea could be reinforced to make someone less likely to tap from a rear-naked choke. And why not insert some silicone around the jawline to make a knockout blow harder to inflict?

If that seems too extreme, then what about Tiger Woods getting Lasik eye surgery and winning seven of his next 10 tournaments with new-found 20/15 vision? Then there's tennis player Simona Halep, who had breast-reduction surgery to help alleviate back pain during her time on the court. And don't forget Gary Sheffield, then-outfielder for the Los Angeles Dodgers, had to be talked out of Lasik by his doctor even though he had better than 20/20 vision.

When your life is tied up in how well your body performs, you will take any and every measure available.

"A lot of the athletes I take care of now, they've had 10 or 15 surgeries," says Matthew Matava, a professor of orthopedic surgery at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis.

"If you tell an athlete, ‘Hey, you can have one more surgery that's going to enable you to extend your career five years,' I think a significant portion would agree to something like that. But hopefully, whatever the procedure is, there's going to be peer-reviewed evidence that it does work."

Stile's techniques are undergoing that kind of scrutiny now, as surgeons from New York University are working with him to publish results in a future issue of Annals of Plastic Surgery.

But as with steroids, the number of athletes willing to take big risks creates a new kind of normal: Athletes might one day have to consent to surgery just to be at parity.

"It may mean that the athlete who hasn't gone through the intervention will no longer be competitive and even be forced into retirement or compelled to enhance," Miah says. "Should we care about that? I don't think so. It's a tough world. If you want to be an elite athlete today, you have to make sacrifices."

Is the Era of the Natural Human Ending?

The imminent risk inherent in Frank Stile's procedure is the potential for misadventure - namely, someone other than Stile performing it.

Brazilian UFC middleweight Wanderlei Silva disappeared for a period in 2009 before re-emerging looking like one of the Real Housewives of Sao Paulo, a look that's softened only slightly in the time since.

"Brows in males should remain in a neutral position," Stile says. "You do an incision like this in males, you have to be careful you limit your skin excision to the scar only. If you take out too much skin in addition to the scar, when you close it, it raises the eyebrow, which gives you a feminine, catlike appearance."

Stile is now looking into how MRI and CT scan technology might give some indication of a fighter being more prone to cuts, thanks to those sharp ridges of the skull. There's also the potential to shave down the zygomatic (cheekbone) region, another area likely to cut.

As for Stile's test case, Nick Diaz finally got his rematch with K.J. Noons after three grueling years. Stile watched proudly as Diaz went the five-round distance, getting several cuts without much blood loss - and coming out with a long-awaited victory.

Eventually, Stile might have new answers for nasal issues: UFC veteran Phil Baroni had Stile reshape a nose already several times broken, allowing him to breathe more easily and keep his jaw from hanging open to get air.


"Phil had a deviated septum, which was the main impetus for the surgery, but we also did cosmetic changes," Stile recalls. "His nose became a little more refined and we took some of the irregularities out of the bridge. I think nasal reconstruction will become a huge thing."

It won't be tomorrow, or next year, but eventually athletic commissions across the United States will need to determine the validity of using surgery to improve performance. The Association of Boxing Commissions is investigating the issue in its medical committee, which may issue a report this summer.

"The era of the natural human is slowly coming to an end, both biologically and ideologically," Andy Miah says.

One of the faces of this new paradigm is Oscar Pistorius, the bionic Paralympian with artificial legs. "If he is able to compete in the London 2012 Olympic Games - not just the Paralympic Games - this will signal a massive shift in what we think of as being ‘able-bodied.'

"Then, technology will have outpaced evolution. Quite literally."

Photos: Courtesy Frank Stile
Advertisement
achiam is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 03-14-2011, 03:56 PM   #2
The sound of inevitability
 
The7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lindenhurst
Posts: 6,469
Thanked 612 Times in 222 Posts
Failed 575 Times in 138 Posts
So stupid. Bleeding is your bodys way of telling you "hey, get the fuck outta here" and "you're getting your ass kicked, so if you're not gonna win this, GTFO"

retards gonna retard
__________________

The only ocean creature you can call yourself is the giant squid. He's the destroyer of ships, and the eater of seamen. At least you share one of those traits.
-Hypa


mixed girls that look predominatly asian with subtle caucasian features=what i'd give my left nut for
-6chr0nic4
The7even is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 03:59 PM   #3
Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
 
quasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cloverdale
Posts: 11,611
Thanked 3,852 Times in 1,366 Posts
Failed 83 Times in 42 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The7even View Post
So stupid. Bleeding is your bodys way of telling you "hey, get the fuck outta here" and "you're getting your ass kicked, so if you're not gonna win this, GTFO"

retards gonna retard

No doubt, whats next no sweating and then overheating and dieing.
__________________



“The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I donīt care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it. You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. Thatīs how winning is done. Now, if you know what you worth, go out and get what you worth.” - Rocky Balboa
quasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 04:01 PM   #4
I have named my kids VIC and VLS
 
Hondaracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,170
Thanked 15,921 Times in 6,474 Posts
Failed 2,158 Times in 740 Posts
the amount of blood loss could potentially cost you millions of dollars
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Hondaracer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 04:47 PM   #5
Moderator
 
CanadaGoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: here & there
Posts: 4,654
Thanked 298 Times in 131 Posts
Failed 9 Times in 5 Posts
I get the science behind it, it's clever, but they're over complicating what is supposed to be the purist, most rawest form of sport, 1 on 1 cage fighting, with this mumbo jumbo shit. Just leave it.

Older guys who have been hit and cut a million times like Couture didn't need this science to lay it out, why would anyone else need it now? I understand, certain facial structures are 'advantageous' since they're better at withstanding impact and not bleeding, but this is looking into it too much. What's next? Surgically re-aligning forearm and fist bone structures for maximum knockdown power?
__________________
Moderator
Vancouver Automotive Chat | Vancouver Off-Topic
__________________

REVscene.net - Vancouver's #1 Automotive Forum and Classified's Site!

Interested in advertising with REVSCENE? Join our roster of Brian Jessel BMW, EBISU Robson, Blitz Gear, Soundworks, and dozens of the Lower Mainlands BUSIEST and most SUCCESSFUL small and medium businesses! Let us take you to the next level with our Incredibly affordable and effective packages Advertisement@revscene.net
CanadaGoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 06:16 PM   #6
Banned (ABWS)?
 
AzNightmare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,431
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,760 Posts
Failed 434 Times in 211 Posts
seems a bit like cheating to me... no??
__________________
__________________________________________________
Last edited by AzNightmare; Today at 10:09 AM
AzNightmare is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 03-14-2011, 06:23 PM   #7
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 3,558
Thanked 3,814 Times in 957 Posts
Failed 715 Times in 210 Posts
cheating by putting your life on risk, sure if they wish... audience will just enjoy a longer game without giving a fck how much your life is worth.
flagella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 06:31 PM   #8
I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
 
Nightwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,655
Thanked 443 Times in 188 Posts
Failed 83 Times in 34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by quasi View Post
No doubt, whats next no sweating and then overheating and dieing.
antiperspirant is old news
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinHurricane View Post
who would ban me? lol. Look at my post count.
Nightwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 03-15-2011, 02:41 AM   #9
WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bowen Island
Posts: 1,605
Thanked 525 Times in 148 Posts
Failed 313 Times in 50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwalker View Post
antiperspirant is old news
ROFL. I found that hysterically funny.
achiam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 02:56 AM   #10
ESKETIT
 
Vansterdam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Shambhala
Posts: 23,360
Thanked 9,694 Times in 2,326 Posts
Failed 997 Times in 240 Posts
Hacks
Posted via RS Mobile
Vansterdam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 03:11 AM   #11
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
Mr.Money's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver DT
Posts: 4,322
Thanked 2,797 Times in 916 Posts
Failed 1,257 Times in 270 Posts
So the MMA fighter's buy their girlfriends Fake tits and while their at it they get their face done too?.
Mr.Money is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 07:50 AM   #12
My dinner reheated before my turbo spooled
 
StaxBundlez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,720
Thanked 2,116 Times in 382 Posts
Failed 877 Times in 94 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The7even View Post
So stupid. Bleeding is your bodys way of telling you "hey, get the fuck outta here" and "you're getting your ass kicked, so if you're not gonna win this, GTFO"

retards gonna retard
Sorry i'm going to have to disagree with you on this one..

Getting cut does not necessarily mean that a fighter is unable to continue to fight, and still perform well. Some people just bleed much more easily than other; and some people bruise much more easily than others. It does not necessarily mean that they're getting their asses kicked.

For example:

fedor vs kohsaka; fedor was kicking the shit out of kohsaka until kohsaka landed a lucky elbow and opened up emelianenko. The rules of that tournament were, if you get cut, you're out.

Cuts and bruises are unavoidable in fights. But I do agree that they should stop the fight depending on the severity of the cut. If the guy is just GUSHING out blood, then yes, call it.

A lot of fighters get pretty upset when the doctor calls stoppage.

Don't get it wrong, a lot of times when people do get cut, it's BECAUSE they take some pretty nasty beatings..


but not always.
__________________
Quote:
If we are not able to ask skeptical questions, to interrogate those who tell us that something is true; to be skeptical of those in authority, then we're up for grabs..
-Carl Sagan
StaxBundlez is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net