[Nlkko]

Not sure where to post this:

Me and my gf were recently scammed of an apartment rental scheme of $1,800. I just thought I would warn others out there to up their guard since we Vancouver tenants are pretty much at the mercy of the "landlord".

So in short, we:

Saw ads on craigslist (1189 Howe). Emailed for more info. Got a phone number. Set up appointment to view. Viewed the place--look legit and everything, the guy has the keys to every single area of the building, he even talked to a few people on the way. We put down our info, went back home to think about it and decided to put down the deposit+first month rent (total $1,800) the next day. Never heard from him since.

We emailed the company who is managing the building only to find out that one of the tenants, suspicious of the guy renting on behalf of the owner, have filed a police fraud report during the time while we were viewing.

This is not a Nigerian scam. The price was actually in the ballpark range of a place in downtown--$1400 furnished for a studio and we viewed it in person.

We filed a police report and just hope others don't make the same mistake or better yet, the guy would get caught eventually.

[Meowjin]

common scam sadly.

[Acura604]

terrible! sorry to hear and hope it all works out for you.

stuff like this has been covered on 'olsen on your side' i think so check his archives... and there have been
many scams like this already done within Vancouver so be sure to consult with others
and how they took action if any.

[StylinRed]

you put down cash?

that sucks :/ hopefully it will get resolved for you but doubtful

[InvisibleSoul]

So how does the scam work?

The scammer is someone who rented the unit from the real owner, but then turns around and pretends to be the owner to rent it out to others?

He collects the deposit + first month rent from a bunch of different people, then disappears?

[Gnomes]

Would using cheques helped track down the people involved?

[Hondaracer]

So how does the scam work?

The scammer is someone who rented the unit from the real owner, but then turns around and pretends to be the owner to rent it out to others?

He collects the deposit + first month rent from a bunch of different people, then disappears?

sounds pretty sweet

[PJ]

Heard this on the radio last year. I'm surprised it's still happening.

It's hard to say how it's done.

My guess is that theres a couple crooked people in the building's Strata or Management who has access to a master key or specific suite key. That person(s) "lost" their key, when they really gave it to the scammer for a cut of the money.

It's unlikely that the scammer is renting from a real owner, and pretends to be the actual owner and rent it out. It'd be too easy to track them down with references, bills, phone numbers, etc.

What did this guy look like?

[CanadaGoose]

Craigslist is a fucking shithole. You can't buy or sell anything there anymore, it's frustrating and such a waste of damn time filtering through all the scams or scammer replies to your posted ads

[TheKingdom2000]

I really wonder if karma exists.
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[InvisibleSoul]

It'd be too easy to track them down with references, bills, phone numbers, etc.
Well, obviously the scammer would need to find a patsy owner to begin with that doesn't do his due diligence in getting the information that can be traced back to him... and assuming he turns around and starts listing the unit out right away, he wouldn't have even needed to get phone service or hydro setup.

[PJ]

I guess. If the original owner rented out without asking for any information whatsoever.

But the part where the guy had keys to every part of the building makes me think Strata/Management..

[Nlkko]

Meh, the guy does have keys to every part of the building. He even have keys to the suite next door--he claimed to live next door (he went inside that suite for like 5 minutes).

He's middle-age, looks like a successful businessman, talk a lot, black hair, a little bald. Knows every nook and cranny inside the suite (he claimed his son lived there, renting out because the son is going back to college). Claimed to name Damion Shaw, have house at Coquitlam. Look kind like this guy: http://www.facebook.com/people/Damion-Shaw/1629594667

Just for the record, most place won't even take cheques. They would claim that people always write NSF cheques. Fair enough. The place I'm living in doesn't take cheque either. Cash, cash and cash. Using cheque does help with track down, which is the reason the scammers would refuse to use them.

As for the deposit. He claimed to have multiple individuals put down the deposit+1st month rent. Even showed me the agreement--which I later find out to be a generic standard agreement 1st result in google. I don't even know if those people exists. I hope not and only us bit the bullet.

[achiam]

Did this guy look like either of these two guys:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh44/hwyking/33551_438481720684_512265684_5679214_2233613_n.jpg

[flagella]

^I think she needs to be added to the collection of integra girl... whoever posts it will be banned. Such an eyesore.

[Solo_D33A]

Would using cheques helped track down the people involved?

Not quite, as Banks are unwilling to give you the info on who deposited, police will not like to get involved if let say your cheque gets stolen and deposited, it's up the the bank to refund the money and that's about it. Also, banks don't check endorsements, they just allow people to deposit whatever cheque with endorsements until the cheque owner got notified of such problem.

[sh0n]

Few issues with this.

When you buy online or on craigslist its always buyer beware - if it's too good to be true then it is.

What was the process like when you viewed the unit, signed the agreement and paid him? Was the guy shady or leggit in any way? It doesn't matter if a guy seems legit if they are all dressed up and come rolling in bling - you can only use your best judgment

Why did you pay cash in the first place? A reputable landlord can accept cheques unless they are trying to dodge. Do you have any receipts that you paid the cash? a signed agreement or anything you can use as evidence?

I suggest the best thing for you to probably do is call the police and file a report. Try and have the police sort it out or at least you can this on file.

However if you paid your money in cold cash, it's as good as gone.

[sh0n]

My bad reread the Op's post and you did file a police report.

One small issue here.

You claimed to pay in cash but didn't immediately receive the keys? Doesn't it make sense to get the keys right away and take possession?

Even if it was a scam - most likely the guy re-rented an apartment he rented out. So in this case the actual landlord should have a record of the scammer who tried to rent with you and can provide you with info?

[krazynuck]

Craigslist is a fucking shithole. You can't buy or sell anything there anymore, it's frustrating and such a waste of damn time filtering through all the scams or scammer replies to your posted ads

so true

on a side note i like the Canada flag avatar....good stuff

[BNR32_Coupe]

lol what's this "we are at the mercy of landlords" business? in canada, tenants have more power than their landlords. i could go rent YOUR house and smoke weed in it all day, and you'd have to jump through a bajillion hoops just to kick me out.

secondly, it's common practice to make transactions for down-payments with cheques. im sorry this had to happen to you, but it's not like there was nothing you could do to prevent this. you're partially a victim of yourself.

[Solo_D33A]

lol what's this "we are at the mercy of landlords" business? in canada, tenants have more power than their landlords. i could go rent YOUR house and smoke weed in it all day, and you'd have to jump through a bajillion hoops just to kick me out.


Yes, the legal process may take weeks to months, and that would involve tenants not paying, subletting, damaging the place, and they may dispute which can further delay eviction etc...

BTW Residential Tenancy Branch have guidelines to do Move-In Inspection and Move-Out Inspection to cover your ass for keeping damage deposits

https://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/

[azncreationz]

Not only can the Landlord ask for your references, you can ask the Landlord for references (from previous tenants). That is what I do, being a landlord, to build trust.
Sorry to hear about your situation, it is quite common. Demand to use cheques, otherwise, be very careful.

[hirevtuner]

sorry for your loss but the first sign of a potential scam is cash only for deposit

my parents rented out to a couple and had them sign off on a written agreement asked for half months rent as damage deposit and references checked and accepted cheque and they've been there for over 1 year now, no problem tenants

[Nlkko]

You talk about smoking weed when you're already in. For the people who are looking for a place, and are not yet in, it's a real struggle to rent a decent place. A reasonable price posting at a half decent location is up and you can bet your money by the end of the day, there'd be 100 phone calls asking to view. People even show up with first&last month rent + deposit and ready to go. Try to find a bargain place in a good location with a budget and you'll know. Vancouver has housing shortage and that's a fact.

I'm not really looking for sympathy or argument here. Just like to warn other renters. I thought it's fair that you don't get no keys until you move in. A deposit is well a deposit to save you a place. That's how them landlords work anyways. My mistake was assuming the guy has the authority to rent the place.

The deal was fair, not cheap and definitely not "too good to be true". The guy seems legit. What can you assume when he has a bunch of keys and have access to everywhere in the building?

Regardless, I filed a report. Talked to two officers and they said they'll try to locate the guy and get a warrant. Wrote them a statement too. They said they'll ask me to look at the few pictures if I can identify him.

We now have 2 weeks to look for a place.

[hirevtuner]

i'm not trying to point fingers or blame fault, but learn from this lesson cuz you paid $1800for it

[FerrariEnzo]

Would using cheques helped track down the people involved?

post dated cheques would have been better but not many people use cheques anymore...



this is a long shot but did you by any chance get a pic of the guy?

[vafanculo]

Have you tried contacting the ad from another email as a prospective tenant? Maybe the guy will be dumb enough to show the place twice.

Create an email address posing as a Japanese student. That area is filled with them.
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[Manic!]

I manage 35 units and only except cash deposits because cheques take 7 days to clear. When renting a place I would ask for the landlords I.D. and refs if your unsure.

[fliptuner]

Any video surveilance in the building?

[achiam]

If you were the renter, you could always look up the property's legal owner on the government website; the land title registry or whatever and then ask for proof ID I guess?
Any other ways to prevent this scam?

[Mr.HappySilp]

Meh, the guy does have keys to every part of the building. He even have keys to the suite next door--he claimed to live next door (he went inside that suite for like 5 minutes).

He's middle-age, looks like a successful businessman, talk a lot, black hair, a little bald. Knows every nook and cranny inside the suite (he claimed his son lived there, renting out because the son is going back to college). Claimed to name Damion Shaw, have house at Coquitlam. Look kind like this guy: http://www.facebook.com/people/Damion-Shaw/1629594667

Just for the record, most place won't even take cheques. They would claim that people always write NSF cheques. Fair enough. The place I'm living in doesn't take cheque either. Cash, cash and cash. Using cheque does help with track down, which is the reason the scammers would refuse to use them.

As for the deposit. He claimed to have multiple individuals put down the deposit+1st month rent. Even showed me the agreement--which I later find out to be a generic standard agreement 1st result in google. I don't even know if those people exists. I hope not and only us bit the bullet.

When we rented out our apartments we take cheques. Even my co-worker pay this montly fee with cheques. If your landlord can't trust you with checques then I wouldn't trust him as well.

[InvisibleSoul]

Meh, the guy does have keys to every part of the building. He even have keys to the suite next door--he claimed to live next door (he went inside that suite for like 5 minutes).
Having the keys to most of the building would be pretty standard if we're talking about common areas... but the fact that he had keys to the suite next door as well is definitely odd.

He's middle-age, looks like a successful businessman, talk a lot, black hair, a little bald. Knows every nook and cranny inside the suite (he claimed his son lived there, renting out because the son is going back to college). Claimed to name Damion Shaw, have house at Coquitlam. Look kind like this guy: http://www.facebook.com/people/Damion-Shaw/1629594667
He said his name is Damion Shaw, and looks like a Damion Shaw that you found on Facebook? Wouldn't the odds be that the Facebook profile IS him? Unless of course he set up the Facebook profile as part of the scam.

As for the deposit. He claimed to have multiple individuals put down the deposit+1st month rent. Even showed me the agreement--which I later find out to be a generic standard agreement 1st result in google. I don't even know if those people exists. I hope not and only us bit the bullet.
Uh... this didn't sound odd to you? Why would he claim to have accepted deposit and 1st month rent from multiple individuals for the same unit?

[sam-tam]

Have you tried contacting the ad from another email as a prospective tenant? Maybe the guy will be dumb enough to show the place twice.

Create an email address posing as a Japanese student. That area is filled with them.
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+1

[dark0821]

i am not sure how the rest of vancouver works, but i think my building always takes cash for deposits and rental fees in post dated cheques.. but you are right abt people stop using cheques....

sucks to be the OP.. hope you catch the guy..

[sonick]

Is there anyway to verify that the person you are dealing with is the actual person authorized to rent the place out?

My friend called me last night with the same question...

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ Reference from pervious tenate, check the landlord ID (Driver liscense) copy those info down. If he is unable to provide you with those info, I would say walk away to be on the safe side.

[TheNewGirl]

When I rent, I don't give them any money until I've signed a lease and seen their ID too.

[Westcoast67]

Any video surveilance in the building?

+1. I would imagine any building built in the last decade would have atleast a few cameras installed...

[Gridlock]

I manage 25 units in NW, and have never had someone question. A tenant at our townhouse was kind of concerned, but had recently had an issue with another landlord.

I find it weird that people don't question us. My gf and I don't look like the typical angry eastern European landlords, and we are young compared to others.

Could have quite the scam going on before people caught on.

[TouringTeg]

Thanks for posting about this to warn others.

As a landlord who just rented out a property last month, I thought about this as well. Our tenant never asked for any ID or proof that we owned the property they just took our word for it. They put a cash deposit down (equal to the damage deposit) to hold the property. The half months rent was paid in cash when we gave them the keys (it was half way through the month that we took possession).

I think as a tenant it would be a good idea to get a copy of their drivers license and ask for proof of ownership. A little bit above and beyond but you could also snap a picture of their license plate if you get the opportunity.

[dru]

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[ziggyx]

^^ Reference from pervious tenate, check the landlord ID (Driver liscense) copy those info down. If he is unable to provide you with those info, I would say walk away to be on the safe side.


How would you get reference from the previous tenant? What if he just gives you a reference from someone that's also part of the scam?