[Gh0stRider]

The B.C. Government will increase the minimum wage, Premier Christy Clark announced Wednesday. The minimum wage will rise in increments, she said, reaching $10.25 per hour by May 2012.

The current minimum wage is $8 an hour, the lowest in Canada. It will increase on May 1, 2011 to $8.75 and be $10.25 per hour by May 2012.

The province will also eliminate the training wage.

"Raising the minimum wage and eliminating the training wage is a fair and reasonable step forward in putting families first and building our economy. This increase could mean more than $4,000 additional dollars annually for a full-time employee, providing more support to B.C. workers and the families who depend on them," Clark said

More to come...

General Minimum Wage

- Today $8/hr

- May 1/11 $8.75

- Nov 1/11 $9.50

- May 1/12 $10.25



Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/minimum+wage+rise+2012/4451912/story.html#ixzz1GntOHi41

[twitchyzero]

McDonald's is still going to keep their "trainee" wage at $6.50/hour
:troll:

[StylinRed]

They're just going to tax it away anyhow

[illicitstylz]

that's stupid, people should have to work their way up to earn a higher wage, not just be entitled to a higher wage for the same "level" of performance.

[K-bad]

So if the min wage goes up for people who work in mcd's what about the guys who are already getting paid 12.50 for warehouse jobs? Would that go up aswell?

[lol]

I doubt it

[CammedFG2]

Alot of places are still starting at $9

[TRDood]

She will just create more unemployment for high school kids. Oh well.
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[1exotic]

so basically the wage rises and unemployed rises for minimum wage jobs.

[Geoc]

From what I heard from my previous employers, they generally adjust your current wage as well (i.e. if you make 12.00/hr, and min wage goes up to 8.75, it should be adjusted to 12.75) But that really depends on what kind of employers as well(small business, union contracts, etc)

[Qmx323]

So if the min wage goes up for people who work in mcd's what about the guys who are already getting paid 12.50 for warehouse jobs? Would that go up aswell?


ohh man

they fuckin' better raise it

[eurochevy]

that's stupid, people should have to work their way up to earn a higher wage, not just be entitled to a higher wage for the same "level" of performance.
your an idiot..no one said anything about not having to work your way up..its the baseline..say you work at mcdonalds and make 8 $ an hour well you'll eventually be hired on as 10.25 when it changes etc ...its just what you START at minimum...at 8 $/h its basicaly impossible to survive in this city..im not surprised that its being raised to an eventual 10.25

*edit* = your philosophy makes it sound like this..pay everyone a penny a day until they work their way up and prove what they're worth

[murd0c]

From what I heard from my previous employers, they generally adjust your current wage as well (i.e. if you make 12.00/hr, and min wage goes up to 8.75, it should be adjusted to 12.75) But that really depends on what kind of employers as well(small business, union contracts, etc)

your wage will only go up if you make less then the min wage. For those who make more money you won't automaticlly get a raise it will stay the same.

[twitchyzero]

that's stupid, people should have to work their way up to earn a higher wage, not just be entitled to a higher wage for the same "level" of performance.

i'm eating the same amount and quality of food..i wander why my monthly grocery bill is more expensive than it was 5 years ago...

[skyxx]

Great, that means they'll raise everything that we buy and eat.......

[unit]

great, keep pricing out jobs for canadians... :failed:

[Geoc]

your wage will only go up if you make less then the min wage. For those who make more money you won't automaticlly get a raise it will stay the same.

The government doesn't adjust it, but the employers do. To make it fair for those who started at min, but worked their wages up.

[StylinRed]

Alcohol servers will only gt $9/hr by may 2012 because they get tips :crazy2: ???

just on CBC Vancouver

[PiuYi]

the replies on this thread are harsh :facepalm:

[murd0c]

The government doesn't adjust it, but the employers do. To make it fair for those who started at min, but worked their wages up.

Of course where did I say the government adjusts your wages.

[PiuYi]

She will just create more unemployment for high school kids. Oh well.
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so basically the wage rises and unemployed rises for minimum wage jobs.

i highly doubt this will have any significant effect on unemployment rates

there's only a set number of ppl in BC whose opportunity cost is $8/hr or below, once all these people are hired, employers will have to raise their offering wage above the minimum wage to get more labour anyway

i believe this is whats been happening already since you don't see that many jobs out there that actually offer $8/hr starting, alot are $9 or $10 already

[iEatClams]

They're just going to tax it away anyhow

Most people making less than $25K barely get taxed. You don't get taxed on the first 10,500 (federally) and $11,000 in BC. Not only that you get all these other tax credits and GST/HST Rebates. BC actually has the LOWEST Tax rates out of all the provinces for anyone making under $50K a year. After 100K, alberta becomes the lowest.

There's soo many guys I use to work with that would say:

"they're just gonna tax it anyways",
" I dont want to make more money, I'll get put into a higher tax bracker"

people seriously need to educate themselves and know that income is taxed at the next MARGINAL dollar. so more income = good!

[CRX SiR]

I remember when BC raised its min to $8 and all the businesses talked about going under and not being able to afford it (the ones that have a majority of their employed at min wage). Seems like they have been doing fine. Ontario is already at $10.25 and Newfound land is at $10. I think BC wont turn into a 3rd world country like the way some of you are talking.

[Geoc]

Of course where did I say the government adjusts your wages.

Did you even read my post?

[StylinRed]

Most people making less than $25K barely get taxed. You don't get taxed on the first 10,500 (federally) and $11,000 in BC. Not only that you get all these other tax credits and GST/HST Rebates. BC actually has the LOWEST Tax rates out of all the provinces for anyone making under $50K a year. After 100K, alberta becomes the lowest.

There's soo many guys I use to work with that would say:

"they're just gonna tax it anyways",
" I dont want to make more money, I'll get put into a higher tax bracker"

people seriously need to educate themselves and know that income is taxed at the next MARGINAL dollar. so more income = good!


I meant as in the inevitable? tolls on all bridges

The increasing carbon tax

whatever else is coming etc

wasn't referring to income tax

[LaidbacK]

your wage will only go up if you make less then the min wage. For those who make more money you won't automaticlly get a raise it will stay the same.

I think employers are obligated to adjust your wage since the new minimum wage will inflate overall goods and services.

[murd0c]

I think employers are obligated to adjust your wage since the new minimum wage will inflate overall goods and services.

yes you are correct, it's mandatory for your employer to chance your wage to the minimum wage. They basically have no say and if they don't adjust it they will be fined and you will receive the back pay.

[insomniac]

that's stupid, people should have to work their way up to earn a higher wage, not just be entitled to a higher wage for the same "level" of performance.

no its not. thats like saying its stupid to ever increase the minimum wage. besides, if the minimum wage increases your wage might possibly increase too. :whistle:

[iEatClams]

I meant as in the inevitable? tolls on all bridges

The increasing carbon tax

whatever else is coming etc

wasn't referring to income tax

in that case I agree. Not only that, increase in food prices and gas etc. Just barely keeping up. . . .

I think one of the main problems is with the municipalities. More people are focused on federal and provincial governments. But the city of vancouver spend the fucking most and have no accountability (or less than provincial and federal). I think the province actually has a wage freeze for most of their provincial workers, but the city workers keep getting wage increases and seem to just spend on anything they want.

. . .my property taxes keep going up every year, and I don't feel like the services justify that. . . .. . :(

[Culverin]

This raise the standard of living for those who make minimum wage until the rest of the economy adjusts.

In order to maintain their margins, companies and suppliers will too increase their price of goods to reflect their new higher operating costs. This will happen quicker than wage increases.

Thus it will hurt everybody in the long run except the very rich.


Did that just make sense from an Economic stand point?

[tiger_handheld]

Say hello to layoffs and/or increased prices.

It would suck to work in the restaurant industry in 2012. Screwed over by HST , now screwed over by lack of tips because food prices went up to cover the cost of wage increase.

[PJ]

the replies on this thread are harsh :facepalm:

This.

[tiger_handheld]

This raise the standard of living for those who make minimum wage until the rest of the economy adjusts.

In order to maintain their margins, companies and suppliers will too increase their price of goods to reflect their new higher operating costs. This will happen quicker than wage increases.

Thus it will hurt everybody in the long run except the very rich.


Did that just make sense from an Economic stand point?

I can't thank you - but Yes - it makes sense ...

[TRDood]

Things to consider:

1. Wages should be priced according to productivity - increase the wage benchmark lead to higher productivity? What is the incentives to work harder?
2. Yes, min wage workers represent only a small fraction of the economy. But this cuts into the profit margins of retail/entry level positions. Do you want to pay higher prices?
3. The increase for workers making above the min wage is not linear. These workers will noy work "as hard".
4. To maintain the same profits, firms will need to increase revenue by raising prices.

Clark is treating the labour market as a homogenous agent, which is a big mistake. I agree that impact on umeployment rates (aggregate) will be minimal. BUT unemployment rates for youth/low skilled workers will spike for sure.

This is going to be another excuse for businesses to raise priced. Fml.

Oh and if we want to talk about black/grey markets, that's going to be another whole thread..
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[bakasam]

I thought BC has been criticized for a long time regarding having low wages compared to the rest of the provinces.

How are the prices of commodities in other cities outside of BC compared to the ones in BC? e.g Toronto/Montreal

I know in Alberta has no PST so things might be cheaper or offset (Higher price/less tax).

[Fappin]

Higher minimum wage + tips = heaven (for a college student)

[achiam]

That's actually quite a high minimum wage compared to many other places.
In London, UK, everything is effectively 1.5x the price of shit back home in Vancouver, yet the minimum wage is 5.95 pounds, which is about $8.
People still survive, but they live hella far out and commute into the city to work for peanuts.

[RRxtar]

can someone explain to me why they are getting rid of the noob wage? why does a 14 year old kid need to make $10.25 an hour?

[GrapeDrink]

^ you know 14 year old kids are not the only people making the current minimum wage ...

[CorneringArtist]

How about raising the noob wage to the old minimum of $8? IMO, sounds like a compromise for raising the wages despite low skill.

[RiceIntegraRS]

that's stupid, people should have to work their way up to earn a higher wage, not just be entitled to a higher wage for the same "level" of performance.

i see where your going with this, but BC's minimum wage is the lowest in the country so it was a long time coming for it to be raised. Especially for a province thats pretty expensive to live in. Now if our minimum wage was comparable to other provinces and it was raised i would probably agree with you. Im hoping im completely wrong but i dont see my own wage increasing with the new minimum wage.

There obviously gonna be pros and cons to this. The pro for me is families are gonna have alil bit of an easier time making ends meet, if they do make the minimum. The con for me is those lil shits that dont do jack shit and believe they should be paid for it or like u said higher wage for same level of performance.

[Nightwalker]

that's stupid, people should have to work their way up to earn a higher wage, not just be entitled to a higher wage for the same "level" of performance.

Inflation. $8 now is not worth as much as $8 a decade ago.

[xmisstrinh]

i think lowering taxes would make everyone a lot happier.

[Hondaracer]

maybe instead of increasing minimum wage, the people who want to make more than minimum should put a little more effort into their work and give life in general a little more effort..

your telling me a person who cant put fries in a bag properly at mcdonalds deserves 10.25?..

[tiger_handheld]

^ how will you pay for services??
did you forget about teachers, po-po, fireman, amberlamps driver, etc...
you will probably vote for the NDP... =\...

[SkinnyPupp]

That has to be among the highest min wage in the world.. Hong Kong is about to introduce its first minimum wage, and it's $3.50 CAD per hour. The min wage in Tokyo is $10.30

I guess it allows people to pay the ridiculous amount of taxes

[ManHo]

with the minimum wage increase are we going to see increase of wage through out ?

[Jgresch]

with the minimum wage increase are we going to see increase of wage through out ?

Definately. Every single employee in BC will get a raise of $2.25.:speechless:

[Spectre_Cdn]

Definately. Every single employee in BC will get a raise of $2.25.:speechless:

Except some places that pay their employees under the table by cash... *cough* Chinese restaurants *cough*

[CP.AR]

Too much too quickly

Raise by this much is just asking for trouble, especially in such a short time span.

Ultimately two things will happen:
a) accelerated inflation, thus further driving up our already WTF housing prices
b) increase unemployment rates

The economy only has so much money in it. If a firm say... marks up their prices by 30%, their profit margin is now gone. Solution? start laying people off.
Increase wages = increased cost for firms.
firms want to profit maximize by minimizing costs.

so well Ms. Clark, be prepared to face questions such as "how are we going to deal with the current increasing rate of unemployment?" in about a year.

[unit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_IMuxMXd3E

[Tapioca]

Too much too quickly

Raise by this much is just asking for trouble, especially in such a short time span.

Ultimately two things will happen:
a) accelerated inflation, thus further driving up our already WTF housing prices

This is a silly point. Housing prices in this market are the result of offshore money, existing home equity, and loose CMHC rules (which have recently been tightened.)


b) increase unemployment rates


The minimum wage will hurt small independent businesses who run on small margins. However, I'm willing to bet that the majority of minimum wage earners work for large companies such as restaurant chains (e.g. McDonald's) that can easily absorb the wages and have to pay higher minimum wages in other jurisdictions such as Ontario.

[ManHo]

Aberdeen Centre is FUCKED

[unit]

The minimum wage will hurt small independent businesses who run on small margins. However, I'm willing to bet that the majority of minimum wage earners work for large companies such as restaurant chains (e.g. McDonald's) that can easily absorb the wages and have to pay higher minimum wages in other jurisdictions such as Ontario.

thats exactly the problem. the big companies are going to replace minimum wage workers at some point with other means, meaning less jobs for low skilled workers. if the gov jacked up the price of min wage to $20/hr, how many people do you think would be working at mcdonalds? it would be as automated as possible and there would be maybe 1-2 jobs per mcdonalds chain. it would be run like a factory. bigger companies are even bigger cheapasses than small companies. every quarterly meeting they are trying to figure out ways to save more money. they fire higher paid workers and hire new unskilled workers for less money. this is how corporations cut costs. small companies dont have these practices. if they need someone they will keep them.

[iEatClams]

Both sides have vaild points. Businesses have to compete, and people have to live. There are two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
There are pains to globalization. Business can’t continue to use third world and developing nations labour rates as leverage, nor can labour unions demand high wages or they will drive away business. Somewhere on the fence is the equilibrium min wage.

[TRDood]

Inflation. $8 now is not worth as much as $8 a decade ago.

Inflation should not have anything to do with minimum wage. Want to fight inflation? Earn it, not by being told from the government.

In the perfect world, there should have NO minimum wage. However, there should be minimum working standards.

This move by Christy Clark simply wants to buy votes, make some noise for her name. It might fool the average BC resident. Bring back a businessman/economist, not an idealist/feeler.

[TRDood]

thats exactly the problem. the big companies are going to replace minimum wage workers at some point with other means, meaning less jobs for low skilled workers. if the gov jacked up the price of min wage to $20/hr, how many people do you think would be working at mcdonalds? it would be as automated as possible and there would be maybe 1-2 jobs per mcdonalds chain. it would be run like a factory. bigger companies are even bigger cheapasses than small companies. every quarterly meeting they are trying to figure out ways to save more money. they fire higher paid workers and hire new unskilled workers for less money. this is how corporations cut costs. small companies dont have these practices. if they need someone they will keep them.

Not really, there's something called tradable goods/labour and non-tradable goods/labour. Yes, capital from your global chains can move internationally, but the service sector (which represents about 70%-80% of BC GDP, source:BC Stats) is not entirely mobile.

[CP.AR]

This is a silly point. Housing prices in this market are the result of offshore money, existing home equity, and loose CMHC rules (which have recently been tightened.)



The minimum wage will hurt small independent businesses who run on small margins. However, I'm willing to bet that the majority of minimum wage earners work for large companies such as restaurant chains (e.g. McDonald's) that can easily absorb the wages and have to pay higher minimum wages in other jurisdictions such as Ontario.

I agree with your housing argument, but when we further push the boundaries of "what can be afforded" (ie: in terms of rent), wouldn't that act as an upward force in the housing market?

as for the absorption of the minimum wage. Sure McDonalds can easily absorb the impact no questions asked. But will they choose to do that and make less profit, or in turn cut cost (ie: cut hours/jobs) to keep their profit stream constant?

OR
they can raise prices, which MIGHT I repeat... MIGHT have a negative impact on their sales, which will also ultimately lead to a decrease in profit. Why I stress the MIGHT is because McDonalds is a household name - unless they jack up the prices to highway prices, It might happen so that the effects of the price increase is negligable

it's screwy this, I really hope Clark did her homework

[TRDood]

Too much too quickly

Raise by this much is just asking for trouble, especially in such a short time span.

Ultimately two things will happen:
a) accelerated inflation, thus further driving up our already WTF housing prices
b) increase unemployment rates

The economy only has so much money in it. If a firm say... marks up their prices by 30%, their profit margin is now gone. Solution? start laying people off.
Increase wages = increased cost for firms.
firms want to profit maximize by minimizing costs.

so well Ms. Clark, be prepared to face questions such as "how are we going to deal with the current increasing rate of unemployment?" in about a year.

a) Housing prices and unemployment rates/employment rates/minimum wage is uncorrelated. Housing prices have been accelerating far more than inflation rates. Point A is irrelevant as Tapoica stated.

b) Increase in unemployment - only for youth, low skilled labour, people who makes near the bottom. A good thing can might be that a higher minimum wage create incentives for people to work and not collect EI. However, I think that the costs of raising minimum wage > incentives as it takes EFFORT to work.

If I recall correctly, the latest LFS report indicates that BC (or Vancouver) has higher than national average unemployment rates. This means 2 things:

1. Firms are cutting back on hiring, bad sign.
2. BC people are not looking for work. (look at the definition of Canada's unemployment rate calculations, actually it's quite different from USA)

[Gh0stRider]

$10 baller...i still need to catch up to $14 baller :IDL

:fuuuuu:

[optiblue]

Higher wages = staff cuts!!! Just look at Nursing for example!
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[Mr.HappySilp]

LOL It would be funny if every 3months all these big chain stores fire their employees to cut cost =D.

[falcon]

I meant as in the inevitable? tolls on all bridges

The increasing carbon tax

whatever else is coming etc

wasn't referring to income tax

Running a country isn't cheap.

Would you like no health care? Dirt roads? Mabye NO bridges instead?

Seriously, people need to get their heads out of their asses and realize how GOOD we have it in Canada.

[Shades]

That's actually quite a high minimum wage compared to many other places.
In London, UK, everything is effectively 1.5x the price of shit back home in Vancouver, yet the minimum wage is 5.95 pounds, which is about $8.
People still survive, but they live hella far out and commute into the city to work for peanuts.

Yep, friends who went to school in London had to partition their meat when they cooked.

[skiiipi]

Having worked in retail for the past 9 years, I can tell you that for industries like ours, rasing the minimum wage is a "bad" idea.

Sure it is tough for a person to survive on $8 per hour, however, many people working these $8 per hour job are not supporting themselves with their wage, the money is simply "spending money" to most of the people working for minimum wage.

Many high school students often go work in retail or food/beverage industry to gain some experiance in the working world before going into university, companies like hiring these high school kids due to the lower salary demands (most do not mind working for minimum wage), so these companies can provide these kids with some life experiance, while these kids can help drive down the payroll cost by providing relatively "cheaper" labour. If minimum wage is to increase, whats going to happen is these Highschool kids are going to fall into the competitve wage that most kids in post secondary are going after, ie ($10-$12/hr). From a company stand point, if I'm choosing between a highschool kid at $10.25 vs a college kid at $10.50, I'd much rather spend the extra 25cents to get someone that is potentailly avaliable to work more than just evenings and weekends. These college kids will also tend to have more life experiance. This will make it extremely hard for highschool kids to get job experiance, since the market will become more competitive.

In addition, by raising the minimum wage, it will actually lower the amount of jobs avaliable. Most companys, mine included, operations on a fixed percentage payroll vs sales. The number of hours avaliable to schedule is based on total payroll $ avaliable divided by average employee wage. If the avg employee wage was to go up due to the min wage going up, it will simply mean less hours. I work for a national retail chain, and I often look at payroll for stores in ontario (where min wage is higher) compared to us, and there is often no differance (given that the store sales volume is the same). Meaning Ontario stores have just as much $ to spend on staffing their store, however with a higher avg cost, so less hours avaliable for staff. So this makes the job feild even more comepetitive as there is now less hours to go around.

Again these are all retail examples, I'm sure its different in every industry, but people that make minimum wage are often in industries such as retail/fastfood etc.

[FerrariEnzo]

man.. does this mean McDs and all the other fast food joins that hire people at $9 will raise the prices also to cover the loss from paying their workers???

[goo3]

^ hire fewer workers who do more work for that wage

[Tapioca]

Sure it is tough for a person to survive on $8 per hour, however, many people working these $8 per hour job are not supporting themselves with their wage, the money is simply "spending money" to most of the people working for minimum wage.

Most of the people I see working at Tim Hortons, McD's, etc. are mature adults. Most of the retails shops I patronize (department stores, chains, etc.) are staffed by adults as well. I think it's safe to assume that at least 30-40% of these workers have to support themselves.


Many high school students often go work in retail or food/beverage industry to gain some experiance in the working world before going into university, companies like hiring these high school kids due to the lower salary demands (most do not mind working for minimum wage), so these companies can provide these kids with some life experiance, while these kids can help drive down the payroll cost by providing relatively "cheaper" labour. If minimum wage is to increase, whats going to happen is these Highschool kids are going to fall into the competitve wage that most kids in post secondary are going after, ie ($10-$12/hr). From a company stand point, if I'm choosing between a highschool kid at $10.25 vs a college kid at $10.50, I'd much rather spend the extra 25cents to get someone that is potentailly avaliable to work more than just evenings and weekends. These college kids will also tend to have more life experiance. This will make it extremely hard for highschool kids to get job experiance, since the market will become more competitive.

An honest question: why does your company have to pay the university student $10/hour off the bat? Wouldn't your company only pay them $8/hour? In my experience from working at the lower-end, you get paid according to your experience in the job. If you have no experience in the job or experience in the company, you get paid the lowest wage regardless of age.

[Mr.HappySilp]

I don't see this in any way help min wage workers. So their wages goes up, price of goods will go up accordingly or even more than the raise of the wage to cover the increase cost. So in terms these min wage workers are no better off than making $8.hr

Middle class will suffer the most. Most likely they will not get an increase in wages (Say they were making 18 to 30/hour). So with the price of all the goods going up but their wage stays the same, they now have less money to spend. Sure as someone suggested companies will have to raise their wages to match it but how many company will do that? How will people will sue their company when it fail to follow that practice? How many people will find loop holes to go around it(say change the title of your job description to a different one but you are doing the same work as before but now since you are techinically doing a new role they don't have to give you a raise or lower your starting rate for that job and the apply the wage increase)?

Whats stopping company to fire off a few people to cut cost? What's stoping the company to turn more employees from full time to part time time to save cost?

Instead of raising min wage the gov can cut tax, lower HST, lower income tax, lower fuel gas,etc etc.... which will help everyone.

[anti_rice]

well I guess there will be more self check outs at grocery stores in the next couple of years.

[Jsunu]

well I guess there will be more self check outs at grocery stores in the next couple of years.

I see an eventual phasing out of all but a few retail employees left at the till... maintaining the self check-out/robot slaves. You already see this shift everywhere in the market.

Once technology gets more sophisticated/cheaper i wouldn't be surpised if places like McDicks would be fully automated.

[achiam]

Stupid people at the bottom of the food chain don't get how economics works.

-Higher minimum wage means costs go up, leading to companies' products being sold at a higher price.
-Consumers from other countries thus purchase less from you, and choose other countries.
-Net business for that local economy thus decreases, as the pricing is less competitive.
-If shit doesn't change, the company either folds up, or packs up and moves to another country that IS cheaper e.g. China.
-Net result? Less and less companies in that area, less jobs etc.

PS: less business = less tax revenue for the government to pay for public programs, which is temporarily offset by increased spending by said minimum wage earners.

[Glove]

I see an eventual phasing out of all but a few retail employees left at the till... maintaining the self check-out/robot slaves. You already see this shift everywhere in the market.

Once technology gets more sophisticated/cheaper i wouldn't be surpised if places like McDicks would be fully automated.


ya but this would happen regardless of what the minimum wage was

[FI-Z33]

Things to consider:

1. Wages should be priced according to productivity - increase the wage benchmark lead to higher productivity? What is the incentives to work harder?
2. Yes, min wage workers represent only a small fraction of the economy. But this cuts into the profit margins of retail/entry level positions. Do you want to pay higher prices?
3. The increase for workers making above the min wage is not linear. These workers will noy work "as hard".
4. To maintain the same profits, firms will need to increase revenue by raising prices.

Clark is treating the labour market as a homogenous agent, which is a big mistake. I agree that impact on umeployment rates (aggregate) will be minimal. BUT unemployment rates for youth/low skilled workers will spike for sure.

This is going to be another excuse for businesses to raise priced. Fml.

Oh and if we want to talk about black/grey markets, that's going to be another whole thread..
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exactly. i can't agree more!!

[dachinesedude]

for the people who never took any economics courses, STFU plz, some of u guys are making bullshit ass false statements

the only credible person i know of is TRDood, listen to him

[TheNewGirl]

Alright... NOT EVERY EMPLOYEE IN BC IS GETTING A RAISE.

All this means is the LEAST people can be paid for their time is going up. It does not mean everyone else and their bloody dog is mandated to get a pay increase.

It does mean we'll likely see wages gradually inflate to accomidate this. THIS is a good thing. In Vancouver we have the worst average wage to average housing cost ratio in North America. Introducing pressure to increase average wages to catch up with the cost of living in our region is ultimately to everyone's benifit.

MYTH: This is going to break small business
Fact: This is likely going to minimally impact most privately owned businesses. The largest impact will be on large chain retail and food services and franchises that routinely pay minimum wage. Many (Starbucks, Tim Horton's, etc) already pay over the minimum thus it will have 0 impact on them at the end of the day.

Those of you who go on about minimum wage workers not working very 'hard' clearly have not had one of those jobs. They're often some of the most grueling jobs to do and often in the industries that are the most abusive to their employees. Unforunately there are people who lack the education or mobility to do anything else and need to make a living. Either they can earn it on minimum wage or YOU and I can pay it for them while they have to take subsidies and other sources of tax payer dollars.

You see... you are going to pay no matter what. I for one would rather someone earn their living working than cashing a welfare check that I worked MY ass off for.

[skiiipi]

Most of the people I see working at Tim Hortons, McD's, etc. are mature adults. Most of the retails shops I patronize (department stores, chains, etc.) are staffed by adults as well. I think it's safe to assume that at least 30-40% of these workers have to support themselves.

Not sure about Tim Hortins, most of the adult working in retail, provided that they have experience, are making far above min wage. so this wage min wage increase doesnt really affect them....it really only affects those with min or no experience.


An honest question: why does your company have to pay the university student $10/hour off the bat? Wouldn't your company only pay them $8/hour? In my experience from working at the lower-end, you get paid according to your experience in the job. If you have no experience in the job or experience in the company, you get paid the lowest wage regardless of age.

We start everyone off usually at $8.75 for someone with no experience or minimal relevant experience. Usually a college student will have more open availability + more experience which sometimes you have to pay a little more for. But the $8.75 employees are quite crucial to the success of a business. Every retail store needs the "cheaper" employees to drive down the overall payroll cost. Like I stated in my above post, when wages increase, the amount of hours available goes down, so by increasing your "high school" 5-10/weekend staff's wage to $10.25.....instead of having 3 5-10 shift, i may only schedule 2 from a payroll perspective. Also, at 10.25 you can usually find "higher quality" or more experienced people to work those 5-10/weekend shifts, which makes it harder for people with no experience to get their foot in the door.

[achiam]

Alright... NOT EVERY EMPLOYEE IN BC IS GETTING A RAISE.

All this means is the LEAST people can be paid for their time is going up. It does not mean everyone else and their bloody dog is mandated to get a pay increase.

It does mean we'll likely see wages gradually inflate to accomidate this. THIS is a good thing. In Vancouver we have the worst average wage to average housing cost ratio in North America. Introducing pressure to increase average wages to catch up with the cost of living in our region is ultimately to everyone's benifit.

MYTH: This is going to break small business
Fact: This is likely going to minimally impact most privately owned businesses. The largest impact will be on large chain retail and food services and franchises that routinely pay minimum wage. Many (Starbucks, Tim Horton's, etc) already pay over the minimum thus it will have 0 impact on them at the end of the day.

Those of you who go on about minimum wage workers not working very 'hard' clearly have not had one of those jobs. They're often some of the most grueling jobs to do and often in the industries that are the most abusive to their employees. Unforunately there are people who lack the education or mobility to do anything else and need to make a living. Either they can earn it on minimum wage or YOU and I can pay it for them while they have to take subsidies and other sources of tax payer dollars.

You see... you are going to pay no matter what. I for one would rather someone earn their living working than cashing a welfare check that I worked MY ass off for.

It has nothing to do with how hard one works at his/her job. It is economics pure and simple. The politics of British Columbia, and indeed most localized economies, wavers between socialistic and capitalistic tendencies.

As I mentioned in my previous post, increasing the income of the lowest tiered earners puts a toll on the economy as a whole -- it makes BC products more expensive and puts our products at a disadvantage when competing globally. With less global purchasers, the businesses suffer and either fold or move completely to another country with cheaper operating costs. This also results in less tax revenue to the government to pay for all forms of public services.

If this happens, we all pay for it with higher unemployment as a result. The highly educated people won't be affected -- they can easily move elsewhere as a result (e.g. brain drain).

[JD¹³]

your an idiot.
The irony of this post is awesome :neckbeard:

[falcon]

I have never worked for minimum wage in my life. I have not gone to university, I have just graduated HS. My first job was at a motorcycle dealership making $10/hr washing bikes. I eventually got a few raises making that $14/hr. And that then turned into another job opporitunity to sell motorcycles where I made 45-50k/yr and then from that to service advisor making $20/hr.

The people working these minimum wage jobs are either 1) not supporting themselves or 2) the bottom end feeders, lazy, do what you have to do and go home type of people. Anyone with half a brain is not making minimum wage and if they did if you work hard for a few months you get a raise (at any normal job anyways). All this is going to do is raise the cost of hiring some moron HS drop out and he will think he's boss because he's now making $10.25/hr instead of $8/hr.

[CP.AR]

^ and BOOM those moron dropouts is how a 14 doller baller is born
:IDL

[achiam]

Seriously who makes abso minimum wage?
When I was in Grade 10 and washing dishes at the Keg, I was already earning $8.50/hour after tips. And this was in 1995 dollars, when going to the movies cost $5.99, as a reference.

[bakasam]

Seriously who makes abso minimum wage?
When I was in Grade 10 and washing dishes at the Keg, I was already earning $8.50/hour after tips. And this was in 1995 dollars, when going to the movies cost $5.99, as a reference.

People at Aberdeen make like 8$/hr and even less at daiso i think :P

Lots of places also start like 8.50~8.75

[Meowjin]

lol nothing is gonna change you dolts. You do realize there is still a labour shortage at $8 dollar an hour jobs. When there are so many part time jobs out there that pay 12+.

[TheNewGirl]

Seriously who makes abso minimum wage?
When I was in Grade 10 and washing dishes at the Keg, I was already earning $8.50/hour after tips. And this was in 1995 dollars, when going to the movies cost $5.99, as a reference.

- A lot of people who are new to the country do.
-Teenagers.
- Most "mall jobs" are minimum wage (and a lot of other entry level retail).
-A lot of moms who can't work full time because of childcare costs but still need to contribute to the family purse to make groceries work part time min wage jobs.
-Gas Station attendants.
-Childcare / school assistants / nursery school teachers / group daycare workers
-Many jobs that used to rely on tips as an hourly buffer (the HST has already lead to a reduction in tipping which has reduced earnings by serving staff dramatically in many many places).
- Farm workers (And a plethora of other agriculture jobs)

It is a small portion of the working public but often they're the people who need it the most, the folks that don't have other options.

achiam> But at the same time, increasing the min wage shifts the burden from the government programs that subsidize families with min wage or low wage earning as they'll make more and qualify for/require less government dollars. Which corrects some of the problem that it creates. At the same time, it also puts more money into the hands of young people and the $$ of 16- 25 year old makes the world go 'round. They're the highest consumers with the lowest burden, their own increased spending will even pay for some of their peers jobs... cause largely don't hold onto their pay checks.

I'm not saying it's a perfect system but it is ultimately nessesery. I would would have liked to have seen a slower increase planned out at like .75/year over 3 years but I understand that this is politically motivated and Christie Clark's attempt to steal some of the NDP votes before we go into an election as well.

Falcon > Your lack of education is showing.

[Tapioca]

We start everyone off usually at $8.75 for someone with no experience or minimal relevant experience. Usually a college student will have more open availability + more experience which sometimes you have to pay a little more for. But the $8.75 employees are quite crucial to the success of a business. Every retail store needs the "cheaper" employees to drive down the overall payroll cost. Like I stated in my above post, when wages increase, the amount of hours available goes down, so by increasing your "high school" 5-10/weekend staff's wage to $10.25.....instead of having 3 5-10 shift, i may only schedule 2 from a payroll perspective. Also, at 10.25 you can usually find "higher quality" or more experienced people to work those 5-10/weekend shifts, which makes it harder for people with no experience to get their foot in the door.

Okay, understood. In a vacuum, this reasoning makes sense. But ultimately, I think wages are in some way tied to overall revenue which may increase if wages go up.

[ilvtofu]

for the people who never took any economics courses, STFU plz, some of u guys are making bullshit ass false statements

the only credible person i know of is TRDood, listen to him

:thumbsup:

Efficiency wage theory man, I remember washing dishes at the same restaurant as my cousin and being paid a good $3 more than him, boosts morale quite a bit, I worked there for a good 2 years in high school, he quit after 6 months, couldn't handle the stress, that being said I think there needs to be more room for lower quality workers in the economy and raising the minimum wage that much is gonna hurt that. Whoever thinks that there is a job surplus just because people are hiring need to stfu.

Besides unemployment is artificially low, I've been looking for another entry level P/T job the last 4 months or so and it's been hard to find one that will work with my school schedule. But as a discouraged worker I'm not even considered unemployed cause I'm a full time student now, ironically enough studying this sort of thing...

[Meowjin]

Work in nightclubs. Stop complaining.

[Nssan]

'I may only schedule 2 from a payroll perspective'

well shouldn't your schedule be determined on business demands and needs. If you have the same demand with 3 employees, then 2 employees would stress on your ability to service customer or maintain productivity.

'Also, at 10.25 you can usually find "higher quality" or more experienced people to work those 5-10/weekend shifts, which makes it harder for people with no experience to get their foot in the door.'

In the year 2012, when minimum wage is $10.25 , how can you find a 'higher quality' or more experienced people than the employees you have working now to work? Those people will demand a even higher wage as they know they are 'higher quality' than 'no experience' employees who will be getting $10.25 from the start.

[Great68]

'I may only schedule 2 from a payroll perspective'

well shouldn't your schedule be determined on business demands and needs. If you have the same demand with 3 employees, then 2 employees would stress on your ability to service customer or maintain productivity.



I agree with this. There's a maximum productivity level you can get from a single employee.

In my line of work (Contracting) there's a set amount of hours it will take to do a job. You can cut workers, but that will just extend the length of time it takes to do the job.

Say McDonalds needs 20 employees working to provide service to 50 customers an hour, if they cut back to 18 employees they can now only service 40 customers an hour and they'd be loosing sales which costs the company FAR more money.

[darkfroggy]

lol nothing is gonna change you dolts. You do realize there is still a labour shortage at $8 dollar an hour jobs. When there are so many part time jobs out there that pay 12+.

Please tell me where these jobs are to be found.

[Euro7r]

Minimum wage is only applicable for people that are like highschool students that are starting to work to get experience at retail/fast food industry. This doesn't really concern most of us, if your a grown up adult making minimum wage, that means your dicking around way too much.

[ImpactZ]

a lot of people should be happy about this

[Lomac]

This thread makes my head hurt. :banghead:

Yes, this may hurt mom and pop stores that operate on a razer thin profit margin, but larger chains tend to make more than enough that they can swallow this wage hike. Most big companies all set their prices at a national level. You wont suddenly see the price of computers rising at Best Buy or the price of binders at Staples jumping up because of this.

I'd be interested in seeing how companies did in Ontario before and after their current minimum wage jump, but I'm willing to bet that there was minimal overall impact.

[TRDood]

Alright... NOT EVERY EMPLOYEE IN BC IS GETTING A RAISE.

All this means is the LEAST people can be paid for their time is going up. It does not mean everyone else and their bloody dog is mandated to get a pay increase.

It does mean we'll likely see wages gradually inflate to accomidate this. THIS is a good thing. In Vancouver we have the worst average wage to average housing cost ratio in North America. Introducing pressure to increase average wages to catch up with the cost of living in our region is ultimately to everyone's benifit.

MYTH: This is going to break small business
Fact: This is likely going to minimally impact most privately owned businesses. The largest impact will be on large chain retail and food services and franchises that routinely pay minimum wage. Many (Starbucks, Tim Horton's, etc) already pay over the minimum thus it will have 0 impact on them at the end of the day.

Those of you who go on about minimum wage workers not working very 'hard' clearly have not had one of those jobs. They're often some of the most grueling jobs to do and often in the industries that are the most abusive to their employees. Unforunately there are people who lack the education or mobility to do anything else and need to make a living. Either they can earn it on minimum wage or YOU and I can pay it for them while they have to take subsidies and other sources of tax payer dollars.

You see... you are going to pay no matter what. I for one would rather someone earn their living working than cashing a welfare check that I worked MY ass off for.

I would not you to run the government. At least at the provincial level.

Like I said, the market should determine what the wage should be. Getting paid $6 at McDicks or your local corner store? Get some experience and education and GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE. The economy is dynamic. There will always be newcomers who are willing to take a shitty wage.

Don't argue about disability, it represents a small portion of the economy. They do get extra benefits from the government.

Language barrier? Grab a ESL textbook and learn. The government offers a lot of training resources.

Adults who work at minimum wage? Take a look at their whole budget constraint and preferences. Do they have other obligations? e.g. taking care of a kid, taking care of an elderly, those are production as well, just not measured in wages.

I agree that the government has a role in the economy, no doubt. However, the government should stay the fuck out of minimum wage policies. They are inefficient, no policy implications at all, market does not fail due to a lack of minimum wage. (I can prove that in math, or theory, maybe empirically too)

Things that target a certain group in the economy such as minimum wage has more costs than benefits. Christy Clark just wants more votes because there are more "feelers" in the economy than "economists".

[TRDood]

This thread makes my head hurt. :banghead:

Yes, this may hurt mom and pop stores that operate on a razer thin profit margin, but larger chains tend to make more than enough that they can swallow this wage hike. Most big companies all set their prices at a national level. You wont suddenly see the price of computers rising at Best Buy or the price of binders at Staples jumping up because of this.

I'd be interested in seeing how companies did in Ontario before and after their current minimum wage jump, but I'm willing to bet that there was minimal overall impact.

If profits stays the same, then cost must have gone down. Which means less people are working.

For simplicity, Profits = Revenue - Costs. To keep profits constant, you do the math. This concept is applicable to all businesses.

Now, we are only speculating according to theory. Economists NEVER get their shit right (like me) relative to actual data. That's why there are so many "economic puzzles". So take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[CP.AR]

^as my favourite prof at UBC (Newman) says... "your answer to everything in economics is - the effects are ambiguous"

[TRDood]

^as my favourite prof at UBC (Newman) says... "your answer to everything in economics is - the effects are ambiguous"

That's what I say to my students too. :speechless:

There are too many variables and speculations in the market to forecast what is going to happen tomorrow.

Just like the HST, Carbon Tax, (Living in Vancouver premium _insert tax here), people adjust their preferences constantly according to the past and expectations about the future.

I think the recent thought in economics is "higher order beliefs" - my prof is going to teach all that math in the coming weeks. fml...

[Hondaracer]

Please tell me where these jobs are to be found.

labour ready paid $10 an hour before this..

any job where you might have to actually lift a finger can easilly pay 12+ if you think you cant find them then your not looking.

[popopopopp]

Well more money is good. A lot of things will remain the same price.

[achiam]

Minimum wage is only applicable for people that are like highschool students that are starting to work to get experience at retail/fast food industry. This doesn't really concern most of us, if your a grown up adult making minimum wage, that means your dicking around way too much.

YOUR = Your burger is delicious

That means you are dicking around too much

You are = YOU'RE

[ManHo]

ABERDEEN WAGES
sales = 8
keyholder = 9
supervisor = 10
wage does not increase the longer you work there
i shit you not

[Great68]

I did a stint a Crappy tire at one point of my life.

I honestly worked physically three times harder for a fraction of the pay I make now. Dealing with stupid/ornery/asshole customers, dealing with shitty managers who scream at employees, for peanuts.

I mean I have a fuckload more responsibility now than I did back then, but I'd say my job now is way more lax.

I think anyone who thinks working in the service/retail sector is menial, worthless work has never worked in that sector. Their opinions are invalid to me. I think they deserve the wage increase.

[falcon]

People at Aberdeen make like 8$/hr and even less at daiso i think :P

Lots of places also start like 8.50~8.75

Cheap fucks don't count. We all know most asian people are cheap when it comes to business. If they want to pay less than $8/hr it's the employees fault for taking the job. Since there are MANY other jobs out there. Anyone who says they can't find a job that they can live off is not trying hard enough.

[GrapeDrink]

I have never worked for minimum wage in my life. I have not gone to university, I have just graduated HS. My first job was at a motorcycle dealership making $10/hr washing bikes. I eventually got a few raises making that $14/hr. And that then turned into another job opporitunity to sell motorcycles where I made 45-50k/yr and then from that to service advisor making $20/hr.

The people working these minimum wage jobs are either 1) not supporting themselves or 2) the bottom end feeders, lazy, do what you have to do and go home type of people. Anyone with half a brain is not making minimum wage and if they did if you work hard for a few months you get a raise (at any normal job anyways). All this is going to do is raise the cost of hiring some moron HS drop out and he will think he's boss because he's now making $10.25/hr instead of $8/hr.

why did you take the service advisor position ? didn't you just downgrade your salary ?

[falcon]

Falcon > Your lack of education is showing.

Way to make a stab at my education. I was an honor roll student in HS I just did not feel that University was for me since I did not know what I wanted to do, nor waste my money on something I didn't like. I am further along in life than many of my peers who spent 4-5 years in University only to graduate and find no jobs available.

With the career I am pursuing now, if I continue at the pace I am at I should be making 80-90k in 5 years and have job security. And no, this is not the M/C industry, that is what I did for the last 4-5 years.

[falcon]

why did you take the service advisor position ? didn't you just downgrade your salary ?

I didn't like selling. It was stressful and living on commission sucks. I wanted to have a known paycheque every two weeks.

And with overtime since I worked on average 9hrs a day I ended up making on average the same I did selling, but without having to listen to someone talk about his 1962 triumph whateverthefuck for an hour, pretend to be interested, send them on a test drive and only to have them decide they have to "talk to the wife" and will "let me know." People suck.

Sales is OK, but it's a lot of time commitment and the commission thing makes you always uncertain of your pay.

[Euro7r]

YOUR = Your burger is delicious

That means you are dicking around too much

You are = YOU'RE


This is why I never did well in English :fullofwin: and work in the Accounting industry instead LOL

[Nightwalker]

I've never worked minimum wage in my life either, and couldn't imagine having to survive on it. The increase is pretty aggressive, but I do agree with an increase.

My dad runs a small business, landscaping. We've never paid as low as minimum wage and hire unskilled manual labor.

[Nocardia]

Way to make a stab at my education. I was an honor roll student in HS I just did not feel that University was for me since I did not know what I wanted to do, nor waste my money on something I didn't like. I am further along in life than many of my peers who spent 4-5 years in University only to graduate and find no jobs available.

With the career I am pursuing now, if I continue at the pace I am at I should be making 80-90k in 5 years and have job security. And no, this is not the M/C industry, that is what I did for the last 4-5 years.

I hate to say it but you sound like a lot of people I went to HS with that say "in x years I will be making XX amount of money if I continue where I am going"

I think a lot of those had diluted dreams especially those who got into apprentice work like 5-6 years ago thinking that now they would be in the 100,000/year. There really is not that many people legally making >$100,000/year and those who do are generally well educated, own their business or work 80 hour weeks.

[falcon]

Well you don't know what I'm doing ;). And it involves some schooling, but not a 4 year degree.

[skiiipi]

Okay, understood. In a vacuum, this reasoning makes sense. But ultimately, I think wages are in some way tied to overall revenue which may increase if wages go up.

payroll is a fix % vs sales....usually around 11-12%. each week, I get a payroll budget based on my sales budget. So if average wage goes up, the amount of hours goes down.

If by raising the wage, revenue/sales can increase by the same proportion then hours would not be affected, however I do not think by raising the min wage, revenue will increase.

like i've stated before, the company I work for is nation wide, and Ontario doesnt get a higher pay roll % than BC despite the higher min wage, which means they will operate their stores with less hours...which is probably whats going to happen here, which will result in less work for people.

again as many have mentioned this only affect those making min wage, or in industries where a lot of staff makes Min.wage.

[Mr.HappySilp]

The gov never gives a break to the middle class. One day when all the middle class either become the poor or leave this country we shall see who is laughing.

[goo3]

For the econ ppl..

What's the equilibrium min wage right now? If it's around $10, it might affect some workers and businesses at the margins. Some will lose, some will win. But overall, life will go on, right?

If you set min wage to say $20, then this will happen:

http://doe.state.wy.us/lmi/mw/images/figur3.gif

Correct? Discuss!

[darkfroggy]

labour ready paid $10 an hour before this..

any job where you might have to actually lift a finger can easilly pay 12+ if you think you cant find them then your not looking.

I suck at job hunting, any help would be appreciated.

[Razor Ramon HG]

I suck at job hunting, any help would be appreciated.

I'd say about 90% of jobs nowadays are from referrals.

(Just throwing a number out of my ass that seems appropriate)

[achiam]

well I guess there will be more self check outs at grocery stores in the next couple of years.

This is exactly the trend. I live in London, and Tesco, which is the most common grocery store, switched to about half auto checkout tills. You can't cheat it coz it knows how much each scanned product weighs.

Actually I have cheated it once by declaring a pineapple as a potato, but that's another story lol.

The most efficient market allows complete free competition of supply vs demand. When certain people at the top become ultra rich, it trickles down society so that everyone benefits as a whole.

When you artificially try to raise the living income of the bottom, it trickles up by other means -- increased costs (e.g. a hamburger goes up 20 cents, etc) and the market will auto adjust for the new measures.

If you clamped down on everything, e.g. assigning salaries to every job, this is communism, and society as a whole lives a crappier life with no incentive to work harder and become rich.

If the adult chumps working at fast food restaurants were paid as much as a job requiring several years of education, you wouldn't bother trying harder.

[TheNewGirl]

Way to make a stab at my education. I was an honor roll student in HS I just did not feel that University was for me since I did not know what I wanted to do, nor waste my money on something I didn't like. I am further along in life than many of my peers who spent 4-5 years in University only to graduate and find no jobs available.

With the career I am pursuing now, if I continue at the pace I am at I should be making 80-90k in 5 years and have job security. And no, this is not the M/C industry, that is what I did for the last 4-5 years.

I didn't mean your school education.

I think the whole - people who earn min wage are lazy and should get off their asses - line make you fucking ignorant. That's what I meant. Next time I'll be more to the point.

[TheNewGirl]

The gov never gives a break to the middle class. One day when all the middle class either become the poor or leave this country we shall see who is laughing.

Once the baby boomers are out of the picture there really won't be a middle class any more. Especially here in Vancouver.

[CP.AR]

For the econ ppl..

What's the equilibrium min wage right now? If it's around $10, it might affect some workers and businesses at the margins. Some will lose, some will win. But overall, life will go on, right?

If you set min wage to say $20, then this will happen:

http://doe.state.wy.us/lmi/mw/images/figur3.gif

Correct? Discuss!
Lol thats like ripped straight out of my econ textbooks
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[yogenfruz]

Finally, after four years, I'll get a raise! :bigthumb:

[falcon]

I didn't mean your school education.

I think the whole - people who earn min wage are lazy and should get off their asses - line make you fucking ignorant. That's what I meant. Next time I'll be more to the point.

Well then we agree to disagree. I strongly believe that if you make minimum wage, and can not support yourself then you need to find other means of making income. The whole socialist bullshit government pisses me off. "Oh, you don't make enough money flipping burgers at McDicks?, well we'll just raise minimum wage for you so you don't need to actually strive for something better."

I've been laid off from jobs before and also let go. I had absolutely no problem finding another job that paid in the $15-$18/hr area.

The people sitting full time at $8/hr, and have been for a while are chumps and need to strive for something better.

[falcon]

Finally, after four years, I'll get a raise! :bigthumb:

You've been working for FOUR YEARS at minimum wage? Seriously?

[Mancini]

They're just going to tax it away anyhow

In this case taxing away 20% means you still get to keep 80%.

[Meowjin]

You've been working for FOUR YEARS at minimum wage? Seriously?

I'll get a raise too at one of my jobs. But if you were to factor in tips...

[Not really racist!]

You've been working for FOUR YEARS at minimum wage? Seriously?

Not surprised at all.
McDonalds start wage: $6.75
500 hours -> $6.75 to $8.00

40 hours/week = ish 12.5 weeks, or 3 months.
6.75$ -> $8.00 in 3 months.

McDicks = raise every 6 months, minimum at 10cents, maximum at 20cents (Dependent on performance), lets say, so eight raises, 8 x 0.2 = $1.60

$6.75 -> ~$9.60 in 4 years...
factor in promotion raises, maybe up to 10$

I know people who work their ass off but don't really get the 20cent raises, 10$ish isn't technically minimum wage but IMO is deserving of what the work people do at McDonalds. And all of the above is considering a person is working FULL TIME, and the odds of starting with 40hours weekly are slim to none. Its gonna be quite interesting what McDonalds is going to do, its quite possible for the back-end to be run via computer/technology but there has to be workers in the front.

[penner2k]

that's stupid, people should have to work their way up to earn a higher wage, not just be entitled to a higher wage for the same "level" of performance.

Even the new min. wage isnt enough to be able to support yourself in BC...

[iEatClams]

The most efficient market allows complete free competition of supply vs demand. When certain people at the top become ultra rich, it trickles down society so that everyone benefits as a whole.


I don't think his has been proven to be entirely true.

About 40 years ago, in the USA - which is the most important economic power and the driving engine of the world - tax rates were substantially higher for higher income earners/corporations and President Regans administration introduced massive tax cuts to corporations and the ultra rich. This worked since it allowed businesses to use the "tax savings" to invest in projects etc and thus creates more jobs and further increases GDP and benefits everyone. This is known as "supply" side economics or as you said, "trickle down" theory.
The reason it worked back then was because tax rates were super high (I believe around 80%-90% for richies and corporations? )

Since then it has been reduced again and again and it is WAY too low in my opinion. Due to globalization, instead of investing to the "tax savings" in new projects and innovations to benefit the USA, Corporations use the extra money to invest in overseas projects/factories etc. .. so money now goes to investments overseas,

or it goes to the Retained Earnings ---> the shareholders. In which most corporations these days are foreign owned, so a large chunk of it goes overseas, no longer trickling down to the american citizens.




When you artificially try to raise the living income of the bottom, it trickles up by other means -- increased costs (e.g. a hamburger goes up 20 cents, etc) and the market will auto adjust for the new measures.



Another argument out there is that when wages wise (of course, not too high or it will drive away businesses), consumers now have funds to spend on goods. And this demand will drive corporations, if they are profit driven, to invest in products or goods that consumers would want. This forces companies to invest in projects that would produce these goods.

For example, there is a demand for condos that are more earthquake resistant or cause leaks. Then companies would invest in engineers to design such products and invest in the commodities, materials (steel, concrete) or whatever such equipment/machinery that can produce this cheaply and cost-effectively. It drives innovation, and innovation powers growth.

Personally I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, but right now I think the economy is too much supply driven than demand driven.

[TRDood]

Valid arguements. I sort of follow your way of thinking. However, minimum wage has no role in your supply/demand side arguments.

No, minimum wage is not needed in this country. Minimum labour standards are good enough to control informational issues.

Minimum wage increase =/= standard of living increases. As what others stated, real life example given by skiipii.

I don't think his has been proven to be entirely true.

About 40 years ago, in the USA - which is the most important economic power and the driving engine of the world - tax rates were substantially higher for higher income earners/corporations and President Regans administration introduced massive tax cuts to corporations and the ultra rich. This worked since it allowed businesses to use the "tax savings" to invest in projects etc and thus creates more jobs and further increases GDP and benefits everyone. This is known as "supply" side economics or as you said, "trickle down" theory.
The reason it worked back then was because tax rates were super high (I believe around 80%-90% for richies and corporations? )

Since then it has been reduced again and again and it is WAY too low in my opinion. Due to globalization, instead of investing to the "tax savings" in new projects and innovations to benefit the USA, Corporations use the extra money to invest in overseas projects/factories etc. .. so money now goes to investments overseas,

or it goes to the Retained Earnings ---> the shareholders. In which most corporations these days are foreign owned, so a large chunk of it goes overseas, no longer trickling down to the american citizens.




Another argument out there is that when wages wise (of course, not too high or it will drive away businesses), consumers now have funds to spend on goods. And this demand will drive corporations, if they are profit driven, to invest in products or goods that consumers would want. This forces companies to invest in projects that would produce these goods.

For example, there is a demand for condos that are more earthquake resistant or cause leaks. Then companies would invest in engineers to design such products and invest in the commodities, materials (steel, concrete) or whatever such equipment/machinery that can produce this cheaply and cost-effectively. It drives innovation, and innovation powers growth.

Personally I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, but right now I think the economy is too much supply driven than demand driven.
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[iEatClams]

^

If markets were efficient, then no we don't need a min wage. However, markets are inefficient, so we do need to set some sort of minimum wage. There are too many other factors in REAL LIFE that theories and textbooks can't teach us since most concepts there ony assume two or three variables.

I think the better way to help families is to decrease income tax for lower income earners imo since they barely contribute to the overall income tax collected anyways.

[TRDood]

^

If markets were efficient, then no we don't need a min wage. However, markets are inefficient, so we do need to set some sort of minimum wage. There are too many other factors in REAL LIFE that theories and textbooks can't teach us since most concepts there ony assume two or three variables.

I think the better way to help families is to decrease income tax for lower income earners imo since they barely contribute to the overall income tax collected anyways.

Absolutely. Markets are inefficient. However, my point is that minimum wage should NOT be a priority in the government's agenda to reduce market inefficiency. Minimum wage policies have no place in neither efficient or inefficient markets. People who gets shafted by low low wage have the incentives to equip themselves with more skills and earn a higher paying wage, while some people are willing to work at such a low wage.

That's why I have been saying minimum labour standards (e.g. safety, hour limits, etc.) are enough.

Tax restructuring can be beneficial to the general economy, but I am not entirely familiar with the Canadian income tax system. Can't really comment.

[Spectre_Cdn]

As of today, the minimum wage in BC is $9.50 :thumbs: ($8.75 for servers in bars etc.).

What happens to the wages for those already at or slightly above $9.75/hr, who have reached that amount after say, one year of employment? Would they continue to make that amount, even if its the same as a new hire, or would all wages be scaled higher accordingly, to the new min. wage?

[murd0c]

As of today, the minimum wage in BC is $9.50 :thumbs: ($8.75 for servers in bars etc.).

What happens to the wages for those already at or slightly above $9.75/hr, who have reached that amount after say, one year of employment? Would they continue to make that amount, even if its the same as a new hire, or would all wages be scaled higher accordingly, to the new min. wage?

Nope the wages will stay the same, The only thing that will change it the min wage.

[geeknerd]

But if youre man enough, you will ask for a raise accordingly.

[see.lai]

It's about time they raise the minimum wage, since everything is becoming inflated these days. This doesn't really affect me though, since I'm already making more than "$9.50" :pokerface:

[EvoFire]

But if youre man enough, you will ask for a raise accordingly.

Tried, got nothing. This effective cuts into purchasing power of those who are at just above the new minimum wages.

On a lighter note, gas prices are down, just a little bit.

[saucywoman]

As of today, the minimum wage in BC is $9.50 :thumbs: ($8.75 for servers in bars etc.).



why are servers not getting the bump in the minimum wage?

[Gridlock]

why are servers not getting the bump in the minimum wage?

Because any server worth his/her salt in the industry can make .75c an hour in tips.

Bitch all they want-its true and good to separate them.

[q0192837465]

really sux for those who made just a bit more than 9.50/hr.

[sundance1911]

i'm eating the same amount and quality of food..i wander why my monthly grocery bill is more expensive than it was 5 years ago...

uh, that is because there are more population on this earth each day and the resource is getting more scarce....demand > supply = price going up, is that very hard to understand?

[Meowjin]

also servers never report tax...

[FerrariEnzo]

why are servers not getting the bump in the minimum wage?
because they do not report their tips on the income tax reports

[phunky.FOB]

but sigh i read somehwere min pay to really survive in vancouver is like ... 18$ :( its okay im gonna be dental assistant

[cctw]

It's about time they raise the minimum wage, since everything is becoming inflated these days. This doesn't really affect me though, since I'm already making more than "$9.50" :pokerface:

you know increasing the minimum wage is one of the factors that increase inflation right?..

technically raising the minimum wage is bad for you because stores will only increase prices to compensate for the increase in the cost of wages and thus you who make more than $9.50 will end up having less purchasing power as the other guy below you said.

[geeknerd]

Tried, got nothing. This effective cuts into purchasing power of those who are at just above the new minimum wages.

On a lighter note, gas prices are down, just a little bit.

If you've been working a while at the same place and has been making around $9.50 but they dont give you a raise accordingly to the raise in min.wage

Then seriously threat with full intent of quitting if no raise.

Even if you get a 10cent raise every month from now, by May when Min.wage reaches $10.25, your +# of experience will be worth the same as a 'just hired' employee. And if you cant even get a raise now, i doubt youll be getting one when the min wage is even higher and theyll be paying more to everyone and be cheap to save some money.

[FerrariEnzo]

bottom line is, if you dont have a good education, you are at the bottom of the food chain.

[PJ]

bottom line is, if you dont have a good education, you are at the bottom of the food chain.

Sort of agree.. but it's not exactly the bottom line..

Labour and some trades jobs I'd say are exceptions.. Quite a few people are making ~$40-60k with next to zero post secondary, which is more than what most university grads make in their average first 1-5 years. Window washers, general labourers, warehouse workers, trash haulers, shipyards, railroads, renovations, construction, etc. It's not HUGE money, but definitely not at the bottom.

But of course the trade off is the job itself, and lack of advancement opportunity.

[taylor192]

bottom line is, if you dont have a good education, you are at the bottom of the food chain.

Sort of agree.. but it's not exactly the bottom line..

Labour and some trades jobs I'd say are exceptions.
PJ, you need to stop thinking of education as "formal education".

My brother is a general contractor and makes more than I do as a computer engineer. He didn't even graduate high school, yet has expert knowledge of wood working, cabinetry, plumbing, electrical, ... acquired on the job.

He may call me whenever he has a computer question, yet I call him whenever I have a home reno question.

Yet getting back on topic, minimum wage jobs typically require little/no education, formal or acquired.

[PJ]

with next to zero post secondary

PJ, you need to stop thinking of education as "formal education".


I'm not bashing, I'm actually agreeing with you, and somewhat disagreeing with FerrariEnzo's point about how no "good education" = bottom of the food chain. Am I missing what you're disagreeing with? I never said anything about "formal education."

I said labour and trades are exceptions to FerrariEnzo's little theory. One of my close friends did a 2-week crash course on carpentry straight out of high school a few years ago, and now he's making upwards of $70k. So if a 2-week course qualifies as "good education" then so be it.

[DsZ24]

I'm not bashing, I'm actually agreeing with you, and somewhat disagreeing with FerrariEnzo's point about how no "good education" = bottom of the food chain. Am I missing what you're disagreeing with? I never said anything about "formal education."

I said labour and trades are exceptions to FerrariEnzo's little theory. One of my close friends did a 2-week crash course on carpentry straight out of high school a few years ago, and now he's making upwards of $70k. So if a 2-week course qualifies as "good education" then so be it.

With trades most of the skills that you learn are from on the job anyways, not in school. So he could have been working for 4 years and not gone through an actual apprenticeship, but the company see's him as valuable enough to pay him journeymen rate.

[Jacka]

Hopefully they won't cut employee hour....

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

effect of minimum wage..
-the center dot is were there is NO MINIMUM WAGE ( equilibrium price , most people can find a job if they want to)
-after implementing minimum wage to $3.00 (where the pink line is... )
Surplus - this is the unlucky group of people who will get fired because the business firms's expense is too high.
-DWL = Dead Weight Loss = That area is a lost of productivity of a country .. meaning the country is not producing as much as it used to be.
From an economist point of view ... minimum wage will do no good to a country's productivity.

and please add comments if i'm missing something=D

[Gridlock]

effect of minimum wage..
-the center dot is were there is NO MINIMUM WAGE ( equilibrium price , most people can find a job if they want to)
-after implementing minimum wage to $3.00 (where the pink line is... )
Surplus - this is the unlucky group of people who will get fired because the business firms's expense is too high.
-DWL = Dead Weight Loss = That area is a lost of productivity of a country .. meaning the country is not producing as much as it used to be.
From an economist point of view ... minimum wage will do no good to a country's productivity.

and please add comments if i'm missing something=D

Yeah, thats the fundamentals. The whole idea of a minimum wage goes against the idea of a free market economy. BUT-it keeps us from having ghettos of people existing in a perfect free market world of no unemployment, but lots of people making $$25/day.

I don't know..I get the issues with it. They started the training wage idea as a way to make it practical for business which was not popular. We never implemented it when I was managing Subways. You have a 16 year old making $10 hour to drink and party with vs. a single mom trying to provide for a family. One is worthy of minimum wage protections where the other in my mind is not. But then you have a 16 year old working his ass off to pay for school-which gets shafted on a training wage.

I don't think we should be trying to make minimum wage comparable to being a living wage in Vancouver, because you'll never win the race. What type of apartment do I need to set the min.wage to pay for? Nice little 1 bed with a water view work?