[JD¹³]

So the Conservatives have been defeated in the House of Commons this afternoon, essentially setting up a spring election. I don't follow politics that much but four elections in seven years is getting ridiculous. IMO the Conservatives have been doing a decent job.

The gang mentality of the opposition just feels childish. I watched some of the "discussion" today on TV and it was like a highschool "he said, she said" argument. Everyone just wants to be in power whether it's for the better of Canadians or not. The primary cause of this vote of no confidence being the F35 contract to me just shows that the opposition is truly disconnected. Now obviously I'm a little biased, but there truly is no other alternative. We need fighters, so we need the F35.

Your thoughts on all this? Having Ignatieff, Layton, or simply anyone out of Quebec, scares me.

[stylez2k4]

I think the conservative are doing a good job thus far. At the same time I'm a little scared how things will proceed if they win a majority government and no longer have the other parties to keep them in check.

[bloodmack]

.. Having Ignatieff, Layton, or simply anyone out of Quebec, scares me.

Same here, I can't imagine the damages that will be done to western Canada if they get the seat. I think the conservatives are doing a decent job as well considering the world economic situation.

[TheNewGirl]

JD13, IMO you think they've been doing a decent job because some of the sickening shit Harper's done has remained out of the news.

He's gotten in trouble for human rights issues, he's misappropriated funds (are you aware that Harper's spent 1 BILLION dollars of Canadian tax payer money inapproriately on personal and Conservative party promotion), he's supported several people's very questionable actions including some Conservatives who will are being investigated for violation of election laws currently and influence peddling.

I think if people actually tuned into question period now and then they'd be shocked and appaulled by some of the crap their 'doing alright' government is pulling.

I'm not a fan of any of the alternatives but frankly, I'd get behind even Duceppe before I'd support Harper for another term.

[Meowjin]

Harper goes down in history as the leader of the first Canadian government found in Contempt of Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Parliament).

In fact it's the first government in the British Empire to fall this way.

Is this the fault of Harper alone, or is the whole Conservative Party to blame?

[Meowjin]

they went contempt. If you don't know what that means click the above link.

You really want people like this running our country?

we trade "economy" for the liberty of our people.

[tool001]

Harper goes down in history as the leader of the first Canadian government found in Is this the fault of Harper alone, or is the whole Conservative Party to blame?

talk about cleaning up the government! imo i cannot trust harper. some1 should make a list of issues, starting from

1. had a lib. bc mp jump ships after winning his seat (dont remember full details..)





x. oda issue (supporting her)
x. not disclosing government spenditure costs.
x. renaming "government of canada" to haper government on government site - letterhead
x. election funds scam (last fedral elections)


think its already too much

[Hondaracer]

JD13, IMO you think they've been doing a decent job because some of the sickening shit Harper's done has remained out of the news.

He's gotten in trouble for human rights issues, he's misappropriated funds (are you aware that Harper's spent 1 BILLION dollars of Canadian tax payer money inapproriately on personal and Conservative party promotion), he's supported several people's very questionable actions including some Conservatives who will are being investigated for violation of election laws currently and influence peddling.

I think if people actually tuned into question period now and then they'd be shocked and appaulled by some of the crap their 'doing alright' government is pulling.

I'm not a fan of any of the alternatives but frankly, I'd get behind even Duceppe before I'd support Harper for another term.

yea because the Liberals and NDP are GOOD at spending money right?..

Canada came out of the global recession better than most countries throughout the world and is still thriving, to ignore that is to be ignorant to the "harper government" completely

it's one thing to question the ethics of the government in power, but when the stupid fucking opposition forces an election that will almost certainly result in another conservative government at the price of 300+ Million dollars, that is -disgusting-

opposition does nothing but oppose every single thing the party in power puts forward and they simply waited to reject the budget to force this election, if you dont support the way the conservatives run the government, you should wait to post your vote in an election which occurs in due time, not 4 times in 7 years

and people complain about the olympic village? lol.. shit like this is flushing money down the toilet with nothing to show for it on the other side.

how is it going to feel this time next year after 500 million dollars were spent to put us in the same position we were a year prior?

[Meowjin]

it's one thing to question the ethics of the government in power, but when the stupid fucking opposition forces an election that will almost certainly result in another conservative government at the price of 300+ Million dollars, that is -disgusting-
.

THEY WERE CONTEMPT

[Nightwalker]

I've never liked Harper and I'm happy for another opportunity to vote him out.

[TheNewGirl]

Harper goes down in history as the leader of the first Canadian government found in Contempt of Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Parliament).

In fact it's the first government in the British Empire to fall this way.

Is this the fault of Harper alone, or is the whole Conservative Party to blame?


Actions which can constitute a contempt of Parliament vary, but typically include such things as:

* deliberately misleading a House of Parliament or a parliamentary committee;
* refusing to testify before, or to produce documents to, a House or committee; and
* attempting to influence a Member of Parliament, for example, by bribery or threats.


Harper did all of these, the top two on at LEAST three subjects (Re: Middle Eastern Detainees, The F35s and in regards to his use of government funds for party promotion). Apparently there's more than that even that's to come out in the next couple of weeks.

Furthermore, this is a guy who ran on senate reform, claiming he was going to make the senate elected by the people then went and appointed more senators than any sitting PM ever (including the ones who had 10-12 year runs!).

There's the whole 'Harper Government' debacle as well and many many more.

He ran his campaign on transparency.
He lead the government on lies.

It's time to dump the mother fucker already.

[PornMaster]

Its not the Canadian Government we're talking about, its the Harpers Government :troll:

[Hondaracer]

Ignatief seems very trustworthy

:troll:

at the end of the day it's going to be the same shit, different pile regardless of what happens.

[eFx[A2C]]

How can he change the senate when he doesn't have a majority? Since there were so many seats open and threat of him losing the previous election obviously he would fill those seats up anyways instead of letting whoever would win to fill them.

[Manic!]

yea because the Liberals and NDP are GOOD at spending money right?..

Canada came out of the global recession better than most countries throughout the world and is still thriving, to ignore that is to be ignorant to the "harper government" completely

Thats got more to do with Paul Martin than Steven Harper.

[JD¹³]

he's misappropriated funds (are you aware that Harper's spent 1 BILLION dollars of Canadian tax payer money inapproriately on personal and Conservative party promotion), he's supported several people's very questionable actions including some Conservatives who will are being investigated for violation of election laws currently and influence peddling.
The amount of money stolen, wasted, and used illegally by the Liberal government under Chrétien/Martin would blow everything you just listed 1000ft out of the water.

Politics aren't perfect and will never be free of corruption. If you think any other party that gets in to power will operate free of it you belong in a padded room :) Looking at the bigger picture, Harper is the best option we have by a significant margin. Again, just IMO.

[stylez2k4]

All parties have their own faults and you can't look at any criticism of Harper's government in its absolute. You have to compare it to other options (Liberal, NDP, Bloc) and pick the best option available.

[stylez2k4]

they went contempt. If you don't know what that means click the above link.

You really want people like this running our country?

we trade "economy" for the liberty of our people.

Lets all be poor and free

[Meowjin]

Lets all be poor and free

:speechless::stfu:

[tool001]

people who say canadian government came out of recession sooner because of harper government need to read up on economy more. and the reason why it crashed in the first place.

[Hondaracer]

Majin and NewGirl gonna go make signs and go hang out front of the art gallery

:troll:

i kid i kid :P

[Manic!]

One of my favorite Harper stories.
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/4471720.bin?size=620x400

OTTAWA—A former escort at the heart of a political storm involving a former aide to the Prime Minister says the last week has left her feeling violated.

Michele McPherson, 22, who is engaged to Bruce Carson, an adviser to Prime Minister Stephen Harper until 2008, said she has been “deeply hurt” by reports that her fiancée was breaking the rules by allegedly lobbying his Conservative friends on behalf of a water filtration company.

“I cannot even begin to express how emotionally hurt I am with this as there are no words to explain how I feel. This has affected my life, my family and people I care deeply about,” she said in a written statement sent to the Toronto Star.

Carson is accused of bragging to officials with the firm H2O Global Group that he had special access to the Prime Minister and was closely connected to the Tory cabinet. He also allegedly met with federal officials on behalf of the company, which was trying to get its water systems used by a federal pilot project to improve drinking water on native reserves.

Confronted with the allegations last week, the Prime Minister’s Office asked the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, as well as the federal ethics and lobbying commissioners, to investigate the matter.

Company officials say Carson was never paid for his work and did not have a contract with the firm. He was an adviser and assistant to the company, not a lobbyist, H2O Global Group says.

McPherson did have an agreement that would have provided her 20 per cent of gross revenues from its sales to native reserves, but that was cancelled in February. Now her compensation is tied to “performance measures” such as bringing employment and education to First Nations communities.

Her statement said she was recruited into the sex trade as a “young adolescent.”

“Vulnerable minors every day are pulled into this trade and face violence, abuse and exploitation. It is difficult and terrifying.”

She has been out of the sex trade “for some time” but doesn’t understand how pictures of her — several in a silky pink teddy, one topless — appeared on an Ottawa escort website about two weeks ago. She says someone likely colluded with the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network, which broke the story about Carson and his romantic links to a woman 44 years his junior.

“I am shocked that someone has reactivated this information to support APTN for this story and I question why someone would do something so cruel,” she writes.

Carson, who runs the Canada School of Energy and Environment in Calgary, own a home with McPherson outside of Ottawa, which was purchased last December for $389,500.

In the course of investigating the allegations against Carson, a trained lawyer, it has been revealed that he was disbarred in 1981 for stealing $24,000 from clients and convicted of theft and sentenced in 1983 to 18-months in jail. In 1993 and again in 2002 Carson filed for bankruptcy.

[taylor192]

THEY WERE CONTEMPT

Who cares? The polls certainly show people do not, and the Conservatives will keep their minority with little change in numbers.

I get the principle behind it, yet it is a waste of tax payer money at a time when we do not have money to waste.

[stylez2k4]

:speechless::stfu:


You want to come over and sing Kumbaya to make you feel better?

people who say canadian government came out of recession sooner because of harper government need to read up on economy more. and the reason why it crashed in the first place.

The good old "if you say this then you don't know this and should learn about it"

[Hondaracer]

Who cares? The polls certainly show people do not, and the Conservatives will keep their minority with little change in numbers.

I get the principle behind it, yet it is a waste of tax payer money at a time when we do not have money to waste.

bingo

I got a good chuckle out of the whole issue regarding the F-35's and a debate featuring the bloc, NDP and Liberal rep's had one day on TV

of course being the opopsition none of them had anything good to say regarding the Lockheed martin jets besides the costs, as well as the discrepency between the costs "researched" and the costs proposed by the harper government

all three of them agreed though that "There are many other options out there outside of N/A that were never considered in terms of other jets"

LOL yea because Canada is going to go out and buy fucking Chinese or Russian planes right? that would look AWSOMEEEEE to cancel an order from our #1 ally and go seek out a nice communist option in our defense systems..

and never once did they bring up the issue of maintenance, parts, training, etc. which would obviously be easier in every aspect dealing with Lockheed than a foreign company..

[taylor192]

He ran his campaign on transparency.
He lead the government on lies.

It's time to dump the mother fucker already.
The Liberals are currently holding Ontario and like it or not, the election will be decided by Ontario seats. The west will be blue, Quebexico will be PQ, and the Maritimes will vote for whoever gives them the most money.

The Ontario Liberals under McGuinty ran a campaign on no new taxes, and guess what? within months new fees were added to avoid calling them "taxes". Ontario is fed up with the Liberals and it is already showing with Toronto voting in a right wing mayor. Ontario will turn blue this election, giving Harper a majority.

Unfortunately you, the Libs and the NDP are too stupid to realize this. This is the worst time for them to call an election, principles or otherwise.

[SlySi]

Who cares? The polls certainly show people do not, and the Conservatives will keep their minority with little change in numbers.

I get the principle behind it, yet it is a waste of tax payer money at a time when we do not have money to waste.

A COMPLETE waste of money.
1.2 Million will be waisted in elections.

Conservatives will lead again and we can be sure to welcome election #5 in the near future.

[taylor192]

JD13, IMO you think they've been doing a decent job because some of the sickening shit Harper's done has remained out of the news.
Or perhaps it is not in the news cause Canadians do not care. The economy is doing well enough, nothing terribly controversial has occurred, so we're all willing to overlook some scandal. The polls back this up.

What the opposition did today was fine in principle, yet does absolutely no fucking good for most Canadians since the election outcome is not likely to change.

I'm not a fan of any of the alternatives but frankly, I'd get behind even Duceppe before I'd support Harper for another term.
This shows how biased you are. You would get behind someone who constantly whines and cries with his hand out and into the rest of Canada's pocket than admit the Conservatives have done a decent job despite some scandals.

Save your opinion for someone that cares. It isn't worth anything on a car site. This site is going to be predominantly Conservative, willing to overlook some scandals as long as our pockets are not pillaged.

[tool001]

You want to come over and sing Kumbaya to make you feel better?



The good old "if you say this then you don't know this and should learn about it"



im guessing then u dont know :woot2:

[TheNewGirl]

It IS the job of the opposition party to call the leading party out on shit like this. It's not as if they just went, 'you're bad and we don't like you'. There's been a commitee on the contempt issue for a while, investigating several cases of information being deliberately withheld both by individual members and by the party at large.

The process got followed. Everyone did the jobs they were elected to do.

So this is the end result.

I think we'll most likely end up with a Conservative minority... again. Unless we get a coalition government which is distinctly possible (and really not the worst out come in my opinion, it's past time for us to get over some of our squimishness about working together imo).

I hope that if the Con's lead again it's not with Harper at the head, though I personally have lost faith in the entire party for their behavior (not that I have a great well of faith in any of them to begin with).

I also hope this whole contempt issue serves as a reminder to the next government that they can and will be held accountable for their behavior. Perhaps the reality of consequences will make things a smidge more above the board in the future.

[stylez2k4]

im guessing then u dont know :woot2:

I would love for you to explain it for me

[TheNewGirl]

Save your opinion for someone that cares. It isn't worth anything on a car site. This site is going to be predominantly Conservative, willing to overlook some scandals as long as our pockets are not pillaged.

We're having a discussion about politics. Anytime that happens amongst people under 40 I think that's a GOOD THING, regardless of if we agree or disagree.

That is what we need more than anything else in this country.

[Hondaracer]

the opposition are as big of worms as the conservatives are! it's not "their job" to call them out on that, it's "their job" to seize opportunity

the opportunity arose with a multitude of issues and when the budget came out that was it

ELECTION!

parties supporting an election obviously has even LESS of a grasp on reality and the concerns/needs of the Canadian people

there is no possible way either the liberals nor NDP will even be able to manage a minority, they are grasping at straws and costing tax payers BILLIONS of dollars for a shot in the dark..

it's sickening.

[Manic!]

the opposition are as big of worms as the conservatives are! it's not "their job" to call them out on that, it's "their job" to seize opportunity

the opportunity arose with a multitude of issues and when the budget came out that was it

ELECTION!

parties supporting an election obviously has even LESS of a grasp on reality and the concerns/needs of the Canadian people

there is no possible way either the liberals nor NDP will even be able to manage a minority, they are grasping at straws and costing tax payers BILLIONS of dollars for a shot in the dark..

it's sickening.

What if the NDP and the Liberals merge?

Harper has has two chances to get a majority government and has failed. He needs to step down and let some else in his party try.

[taylor192]

I hope that if the Con's lead again it's not with Harper at the head, though I personally have lost faith in the entire party for their behavior (not that I have a great well of faith in any of them to begin with).
This shows your ignorance. The Conservatives will be the same with or without Harper as the leader. Harper will merely step back into his strategist role where he was before being leader and the party politics will continue.

Voting for a leader is asinine.
Vote for a party's platform.

I for one will not be voting for a party that wants to direct money towards building a stadium in Quebexico. See how I did not mention Iggy or Douchebag Duceppe? That's how to vote based on party platforms.

I also hope this whole contempt issue serves as a reminder to the next government that they can and will be held accountable for their behavior. Perhaps the reality of consequences will make things a smidge more above the board in the future.
It will not. Why? Cause no one cares!

[taylor192]

We're having a discussion about politics. Anytime that happens amongst people under 40 I think that's a GOOD THING, regardless of if we agree or disagree.

That is what we need more than anything else in this country.

Kinda.

We need more of it if people will get informed.
We need less of it if people are going to treat it as the next episode of Canadian Idol, a stupid popularity contest.

If you're just voting down Harper cause he looks like a greasy used car salesman, then you shouldn't vote or should spoil your vote. An uneducated vote is worse than anything.

[taylor192]

What if the NDP and the Liberals merge?

Harper has has two chances to get a majority government and has failed. He needs to step down and let some else in his party try.
Again, you should be voting for a party - this isn't Canadian Idol.

The NDP and Libs will never merge. Infact the Liberals have jumped in the polls as NDPers throw their support behind the Libs cause they want "anything but conservative". They would sacrifice thier own values and party to ensure the Conservatives do not win.

This is why the NDP is a joke and will never lead.

[Jsunu]

Kinda.

We need more of it if people will get informed.
We need less of it if people are going to treat it as the next episode of Canadian Idol, a stupid popularity contest.

If you're just voting down Harper cause he looks like a greasy used car salesman, then you shouldn't vote or should spoil your vote. An uneducated vote is worse than anything.

The problem is that a vast portion of Canadian's do not follow or claim to know very little about our own domestic politics, including myself. It is just sad how people pay little to no attention to something that, in actually, affects them the most.

[carisear]

Thats got more to do with Paul Martin than Steven Harper.

no, it has more to do with chretien making damn sure martin did his job as finance minister. When paul martin had his chance at the helm, he undid EVERYTHING good he did in the previous 10 years.

btw those years of liberal leadership under chretien were not too unlike conservatives fiscal ideology.

i'm not a liberal supporter at all, but even i have to admit that those years under chretien, scandal and all, were pretty good for canada.

[Great68]

The amount of money stolen, wasted, and used illegally by the Liberal government under Chrétien/Martin would blow everything you just listed 1000ft out of the water.



Uh, I guess you don't remember that the Liberals under Jean Chretien had FIVE consecutive surplus budgets, eliminated $42 billion in deficit, paid down $36 billion of debt, and cut $100 billion in taxes over 5 years...

Of course one sponsorship scandal and no one remembers the GOOD things the liberals did when they were in power.

How many surplus budgets have the recent conservatives had?

So easy to forget, probably because most on this board were toddlers in that era.

[carisear]

What if the NDP and the Liberals merge?

Harper has has two chances to get a majority government and has failed. He needs to step down and let some else in his party try.

man those 2 parties will never merge. their ideologies are so far apart, it's like asking liberals and conservatives to merge.

[belka]

bingo

I got a good chuckle out of the whole issue regarding the F-35's and a debate featuring the bloc, NDP and Liberal rep's had one day on TV

of course being the opopsition none of them had anything good to say regarding the Lockheed martin jets besides the costs, as well as the discrepency between the costs "researched" and the costs proposed by the harper government

all three of them agreed though that "There are many other options out there outside of N/A that were never considered in terms of other jets"

LOL yea because Canada is going to go out and buy fucking Chinese or Russian planes right? that would look AWSOMEEEEE to cancel an order from our #1 ally and go seek out a nice communist option in our defense systems..

and never once did they bring up the issue of maintenance, parts, training, etc. which would obviously be easier in every aspect dealing with Lockheed than a foreign company..

When it comes to the military, the Libs or NDP don't have a fucking clue. They are going to toss around this new fighter purchase issue just like they did with the Sea King. In 2017/18 when the CF-18's are grounded they will still be bickering at each other over what they should buy. In the mean time we will have US fighters operate out of Canadian bases for NORAD duties, is this what Canadians want? Sacrifice domestic air sovereignty just to save a buck on the backs of the men and women in uniform? We are already the lowest funded force in all of NATO, god forbid those morons get in power, we will really be screwed. Sell the CBC, they already cost more to operate than our CF.

[Manic!]

Again, you should be voting for a party - this isn't Canadian Idol.



And thats how you end up with people like MP Nina Grewal.
http://www.thenownewspaper.com/4268796.bin?size=620x400
(edit: looking at the picture even she can't stand listing to Harper)

"They have a law like this in the UK and on June 9, 2010, I think it was, Obama passed that law in the United States. In the U.S., I think only one person voted against it."

Read more: http://www.thenownewspaper.com/Surrey+Grewal+wants+Ottawa+turn+down+volume+pesky+ commercials/4268792/story.html#ixzz1Hemwv6WE

Does she not no how to use google? Instead of thinking find out when the law in the US was passed and what the law states.

You should look at the party but you should also look at the candidate and see who will best represent your riding.

[JD¹³]

Uh, I guess you don't remember that the Liberals under Jean Chretien had FIVE consecutive surplus budgets, eliminated $42 billion in deficit, paid down $36 billion of debt, and cut $100 billion in taxes over 5 years...

Of course one sponsorship scandal and no one remembers the GOOD things the liberals did when they were in power.

How many surplus budgets have the recent conservatives had?

So easy to forget, probably because most on this board were toddlers in that era.
No I remember, I was just pointing out that corruption is not limited to one party. And if we're going to vote on ethical use of the Canadian tax dollar well........

The global economy was very different under the Liberal government. Apples to oranges, all you can do is go by how each party handled themselves at the time.

[Great68]

Unfortunately you, the Libs and the NDP are too stupid to realize this.

This shows your ignorance.

Grow up dude. TheNewGirl has not called you a name or challenged your character in a single post.

Keep it mature.

[adambomb]

Am I the only one picturing Natalie Portman (Queen Amidala) and her vote of non-confidence against the senate in Star Wars.
I wish our parliment had those floating box seats.


:fullofwin:


taylor192, fuck, stop being so condensending when someone disagrees with your opinions. It makes your dick look small.

[StylinRed]

its amazing how taylor et al are far more intelligent than the ruling leadership and their million dollar analysts that have lee them to decide to push for an election... wow taylor you should run for a seat

please theres no reason to be name calling here qhen we're just voicing our views or else you're no better than these politicians you accuse of schoolyard antics
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Meowjin]

Hey taylor. I know who cares.

People who want a government with as little corruption as possible and easily available access off information that the tory's destroyed when he got elected.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Hondaracer]

Maybe those people should be looking in fairy tales..
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[taylor192]

Hey taylor. I know who cares.

People who want a government with as little corruption as possible and easily available access off information that the tory's destroyed when he got elected.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Good for them. They are probably NDP voters and will now lose $300M of money that could have been negotiated to be spent on those the NDP look out for. And they might lose far more.

If the Conservatives get a majority all the current things in the budget that catered to the NDP will be gone. The chance of a majority is decent, so I wonder why the NDP would risk losing everything.

The chance of a majority is decent.
- Toronto is leaning right, with a very right-wing mayor whom they overlooked his scandalous past.
- Newfoundland might go back to blue. Danny Williams is gone, and it doesn't look like there'll be a return of the ABC campaign (anything but conservative).

If both those happen, and the Conservatives steal a seat in Montreal cause Montreal doesn't want their taxes given to Quebec City for an arena - well the NDP should pack up and call it quits. They did a huge disservice to their supporters by even risking this happening.

[taylor192]

its amazing how taylor et al are far more intelligent than the ruling leadership and their million dollar analysts that have lee them to decide to push for an election... wow taylor you should run for a seat

please theres no reason to be name calling here qhen we're just voicing our views or else you're no better than these politicians you accuse of schoolyard antics
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

I didn't accuse the politicians of anything. If you're paying attention I've said, in big bold letters: Canadians do not care.

You'll also notice I said that having an uneducated opinion is bad and you should spoil your vote. You'll notice I make fun of those who treat politics like Canadian Idol, who by doing so are acting just as badly as the politicians they are criticizing. Ironic eh?

[taylor192]

Grow up dude. TheNewGirl has not called you a name or challenged your character in a single post.

Keep it mature.
There's a difference between calling someone ignorant, and commenting on their ignorance on an issue. A mature person will understand it.

She cannot challenge my character, I don't treat politics like Canadian Idol. :D

[taylor192]

The talk in Ottawa is all about coalitions. :( The PQ will get 50 seats, so they have to be part of any coalition, and we know they will not vote for anything that does not benefit them. We're a little removed from these discussions being out west, yet my family/friends in Ontario/Quebec are saying this is all the talk right now.

Do you want every budget for the next 5 years to buy Quebec's vote? I do not, and many of my left leaning friends in Ontario are sick of it, voting Conservative just to ensure this does not happen.

[StylinRed]

I didn't accuse the politicians of anything. If you're paying attention I've said, in big bold letters: Canadians do not care.

You'll notice I make fun of those who treat politics like Canadian Idol, who by doing so are acting just as badly as the politicians they are criticizing. Ironic eh?

you'll have to excuse me i was speaking in general in my 2nd paragraph, after looking at it i see how it looks to be directed right at u

as for a Canadian Idol; i find it silly to assume someone who looks at the party leadership over the party is being stupid

because the leadership is the one who leads the party
the leadership has the sway to choose the path the party goes on (bush, harper, blair), you'll find it very rare that the party collectively goes against the leadership
sure it happens, local NDP, but incidences are rare and it usually leads nowhere (again local NDP)

so why shouldn't someone look at the shepherd when he's deciding on which flock of sheep to side with? (by your logic the smartest thing for us all to do would be to vote for :Puke: Ignatief since the Liberals rock)

[PiuYi]

He's gotten in trouble for human rights issues, he's misappropriated funds (are you aware that Harper's spent 1 BILLION dollars of Canadian tax payer money inapproriately on personal and Conservative party promotion), he's supported several people's very questionable actions including some Conservatives who will are being investigated for violation of election laws currently and influence peddling.


just wAndering, do u know roughly what the budget is for party promotions? 1 billion sounds like alot.... he may have spent 1 billion and SOME of it was inappropriately spent, but 1 billion spent inappropriately sounds off

[taylor192]

as for a Canadian Idol; i find it silly to assume someone who looks at the party leadership over the party is being stupid

because the leadership is the one who leads the party
the leadership has the sway to choose the path the party goes on (bush, harper, blair), you'll find it very rare that the party collectively goes against the leadership
sure it happens, local NDP, but incidences are rare and it usually leads nowhere (again local NDP)

so why shouldn't someone look at the shepherd when he's deciding on which flock of sheep to side with? (by your logic the smartest thing for us all to do would be to vote for :Puke: Ignatief since the Liberals rock)
First, no worries, I don't take any of it personally. Politics just leads to heated discussions :)

The Liberals hardly rock. They want to give money to Quebexico to build an arena - a clear move to buy votes and an indication of what will come in the next 5 years.

You should also look at the leader when making a decision, yet unfortunately most people look solely at their leader. Ask anyone that hates Harper who the candidate for their party is and what they stood for for their riding - then laugh when they cannot answer. Its all too common, and frankly it sucks thus why you see the language I use, I find it sickening.

I am not a fan of Harper as a leader either, I think there are better candidates that would get the Conservatives a majority. Yet I won't bash him just to bash him, that's what Canadian Idol is for :D hell I can even say good things about Douchebag Duceppe, he's a fantastic leader, well spoken, knowledgeable - just he's leader of the douche canoes always having their hands out for Quebexico. Layton is a fantastic person, I would vote for him anyday, yet not for his party.

Ultimately it comes down to the party not the leader. I like 2 of the other leaders, yet will NEVER vote for their parties.

[carisear]

because the leadership is the one who leads the party
the leadership has the sway to choose the path the party goes on (bush, harper, blair)



i'll have to disagree with you there on your choices (not your statement though) -- I think W was the weakest leader by far and was just being told everything.

Harper i believe is pretty homogenous with his party -- not really doing any swaying.

An example i would use for you though is Chretien (heh my favorite person to use!) -- since he was a strong leader. Same with gordon campbell.

[darkfroggy]

JD13, IMO you think they've been doing a decent job because some of the sickening shit Harper's done has remained out of the news.

He's gotten in trouble for human rights issues, he's misappropriated funds (are you aware that Harper's spent 1 BILLION dollars of Canadian tax payer money inapproriately on personal and Conservative party promotion), he's supported several people's very questionable actions including some Conservatives who will are being investigated for violation of election laws currently and influence peddling.

I think if people actually tuned into question period now and then they'd be shocked and appaulled by some of the crap their 'doing alright' government is pulling.

I'm not a fan of any of the alternatives but frankly, I'd get behind even Duceppe before I'd support Harper for another term.

Newsflash, every government has its share of scandals.

And Duceppe? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

[johny]

the liberals haven't even payed off their debts from last election. (which is a vilolation of the elections act. but elections canada is run by liberal appointys so nobody cares)

their campaign is going to be run from transit buses. should be fun to watch.

[johny]

Uh, I guess you don't remember that the Liberals under Jean Chretien had FIVE consecutive surplus budgets, eliminated $42 billion in deficit, paid down $36 billion of debt, and cut $100 billion in taxes over 5 years...


how much of that was stolen from the surplus EI bucket?...

[carisear]

oh shit, johny's back!

gg left wingers :/

[johny]

Hey taylor. I know who cares.

People who want a government with as little corruption as possible and easily available access off information that the tory's destroyed when he got elected.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)


like how when the auditor general was trying to find the costs of the gun registry a few years ago all the spending data from the liberals was gone?. and the true costs could not be calculated.

[taylor192]

how much of that was stolen from the surplus EI bucket?...

Moreso over which years did this occur? were those 5 years the same years of the tech bubble?

[johny]

A quick google found me this. reading thought it now.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20081211/scoc_ei_081211/


"Canada's highest court ruled, however, that the federal government was within its rights to divert EI contributions to pay down the deficit from 1996-2001.

A Quebec labour union first raised the issue, claiming that Jean Chretien's Liberal government diverted $54 billion from unemployment insurance contributions made by employers and their workers.

The Confederation des Syndicats Nationaux claimed the government was using the money unconstitutionally to balance the budget. Labour leaders demanded that the Ottawa take the money out of general revenues and return the money to the EI program."

they took 54 billion from the on hand EI funds to balance the bugdet, although appeartly that was ok...

[Meowjin]

Jesus christ this has nothing to do about the past... This about the now. We must let the government know with our votes that secret agendas and scandels is not what canadians want. We can play that stupid game alld au
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[TheKingdom2000]

Holy crap, how much do elections cost?
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Death2Theft]

Well she is a girl so you can't expect her to think rationally before menopause.
If theres two places she doesn't belong it's gender equality threads and politics.
I didn't accuse the politicians of anything. If you're paying attention I've said, in big bold letters: Canadians do not care.

You'll also notice I said that having an uneducated opinion is bad and you should spoil your vote. You'll notice I make fun of those who treat politics like Canadian Idol, who by doing so are acting just as badly as the politicians they are criticizing. Ironic eh?

[Graeme S]

Keep this thread clear of non-political vitriol, people. I don't want to have to issue points in xbox-hueg sized lots, nor bans.

Want to say a political party sucks? Go for it. Don't call anyone an idiot for having a view--regardless how misguided you feel he and/or she may be.

[MG1]

Well she is a girl so you can't expect her to think rationally before menopause.
If theres two places she doesn't belong it's gender equality threads and politics.

Wow, there goes my New Year's resolution of not failing anybody. Those comments of yours are totally uncalled for.

[Meowjin]

i'll just leave this here

"Canada records biggest deficit in history

It's official. Stephen Harper's government has managed to out-do Pierre Trudeau, and take the crown as the biggest deficit spender in Canadian history.

Clocking in at an impressive $55.6 billion, the Harper government has single-handedly managed to inflate the size of the Federal government since taking office in 2006, by approximately 50%.

Remember: conservatives warned us that we had to dispose of the out-of-control spending of previous Liberal governments, which delivered eleven years of balanced budgets, reducing Canada's debt-to-GDP ratio from almost 90% down below 50%.

Stephen Harper and Flaherty have managed to increase Canada's Debt-to-GDP ratio back up to about 80%, erasing almost a decade of debt repayment. Based on current trends, and given Flaherty's own estimates for a return to surplus in 2016, Canada will essentially be back in the same fiscal shape it was in 1995 (or worse) when all is said and done."

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2010/10/canada-records-biggest-deficit-in-history.html

source.

[Meowjin]

Another intresting chart

http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/2010/10/an-updated-history-of-the-federal-budget-balance.html

all smoke and mirrors....

whatever that means :p

[Meowjin]

and for that matter who watches the watchmen?

[goo3]

We must let the government know with our votes that secret agendas and scandels is not what canadians want. We can play that stupid game alld au
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Sure, but i bet 4 elections in 7 years will override that fact for most ppl.

The thing is, ppl might care more about this if the opposition didn't try power grabbing last time. Is what they're doing serving the ppl or serving themselves? I wonder if this question ever gets asked when they make these kinds of decisions.

IMO, just like any job, if you want to be voted into power:
- demonstrate you don't suck ass
- show you have good judgment
- show you understand your role

Instead, I see them taking the BC NDP approach: hope they screw up, hope they screw up... Is this what gets taught in poli sci?

[taylor192]

i'll just leave this here

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2010/10/canada-records-biggest-deficit-in-history.html

source.

You do know that the Conservatives have been forced into spending money they didn't want to, or else the government would have fallen every year as the budget is voted down.

Thus if you want to look for a reason for the deficit, take a long look in the mirror. The NDP want to spend spend spend. The PQ just want more money for Quebexico, and the Libs haven't shown they want to reduce spending at all - other than the F35s which they happened to initiate the contract for.

This year the Conservative said NO to a lot of opposition requests in the budget, and look what happens.

So please leave that there as a reminder to everyone of how much spending the opposition has wanted, and how much further in debt we'll be if they form a coalition.

[bakasam]

Heh my dad said he is forced to vote for Conservatives even though its not the party he wants

He said that the liberals fail with Ignatieff. He thinks hes a shady guy and doesn't trust him even though hes been Liberal until Stephan Dion stepped up.

He would never vote NDP cause they would increase governement spending which would eventually lead to higher taxes etc (Benefit now suffer later) Also the BC NDP Gov't in power in the 90s i think? messed everything up so he doesn't want it to be on a national scale.

Won't vote for Quebecois since nobody really would outside of QB

and Green Party/Independents etc would never get enough votes to have the most number of seats.


Canadian politics blow a minority government will never get things done at the right time since decision making takes forever

[Carl Johnson]

If you are an investor who would you vote for? As which party is more pro-growth, pro-business, and less regulation.

[RRxtar]

Ignatifucker said he will not entertain the idea of a coalition. If that is the case, the NDP just threw their hopes for anything on their agenda in the garbage with the non-confidence vote. If it isnt the case, what do you know, hes a liar.


I dont follow politics closely enough myself, but just like how when that luger died in the olympics and suddenly everyone with a keyboard was an engineer, I dont think many people in here really have any idea what they are talking about either, regardless of whether they think they do.


I would have to believe a big reason our revenue is down and our deficit is up (which go hand in hand) is because of the recession (revenue down) and the minority government being forced to giving into concessions to the other parties (spending up) as well as the measures taken to stimulate the economy out of the recession. Would any other party have done any better in the same situation? Hell, I dont think any other party would have done as good in the same situation. When your revenue is forced down, and your spending is forced up, theres not alot you can do. You cannot compare debt/deficit in the last 3 years in one of the largest world economic downturns with a minority government, to a majority government in some of the most prosperous times of 5-15 years ago

[Manic!]

You do know that the Conservatives have been forced into spending money they didn't want to.

It's never there fault. Some one else made them do it. :cry:

[darkfroggy]

i'll just leave this here



http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2010/10/canada-records-biggest-deficit-in-history.html

source.

My god, debt doesn't rise in times of a recession?

Also: inflation.

Canada came out pretty good compared to US, Greece, France...

[taylor192]

It's never there fault. Some one else made them do it. :cry:
For the budget, yes it is not their fault. When they need 10 votes, those 10 votes dictate extra spending.

[Graeme S]

For the budget, yes it is not their fault. When they need 10 votes, those 10 votes dictate extra spending.
Not to say I agree with either side 'cause honestly I trust nobody, but here's a question:

If Harper claims he has a mandate while leading a minority government and that the opposition has tried to "steal power" by forming a coalition, why does someone "with a mandate to govern the people" find himself stuck kowtowing?

It reeks of more spinning.

[taylor192]

Not to say I agree with either side 'cause honestly I trust nobody, but here's a question:

If Harper claims he has a mandate while leading a minority government and that the opposition has tried to "steal power" by forming a coalition, why does someone "with a mandate to govern the people" find himself stuck kowtowing?

It reeks of more spinning.
Your post reeks of spinning. :p

He's stuck towing the line cause he needs 10 votes to pass anything. If he proposed true Conservative values, he'd never get those 10 votes. Yet all he needs is 10 votes. If one one issue the Libs agree, then he gets 10 votes. If on the budget the NDP agrees, then he gets 10 votes. If he foolishly gives money to Quebexico, he gets 10 votes. Its not a coalition, its vote buying cause he has to buy 10 votes.

The Liberals need both the NDP and PQ, thus making deals with the devil (PQ) and giving way money (NDP) to get enough votes. That's why it is a coalition, cause they all have to agree, every time.

[Manic!]

Steven Harper needs to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS1pobj6RLI
instead of bribing the other parties.

[Ronin]

they went contempt. If you don't know what that means click the above link.

You really want people like this running our country?

we trade "economy" for the liberty of our people.

What...are we losing some sort of basic freedom? Because economics is just about all I want the government running.

I will be voting for whoever has the economic policies that I like. I'm not really concerned about the rest.

[Gridlock]

Your post reeks of spinning. :p

He's stuck towing the line cause he needs 10 votes to pass anything. If he proposed true Conservative values, he'd never get those 10 votes. Yet all he needs is 10 votes. If one one issue the Libs agree, then he gets 10 votes. If on the budget the NDP agrees, then he gets 10 votes. If he foolishly gives money to Quebexico, he gets 10 votes. Its not a coalition, its vote buying cause he has to buy 10 votes.

The Liberals need both the NDP and PQ, thus making deals with the devil (PQ) and giving way money (NDP) to get enough votes. That's why it is a coalition, cause they all have to agree, every time.

History lesson. The NDP have been in positions to change major aspects of Canada this way.

Petro Canada came about because someone needed the NDP's support. Looked it up...Trudeau and a minority liberal gov't.

[Bonjour43MA]

When it comes to politics this is what I follow - go for the lesser of two evils. I'm not a big follower of Canadian politics (or any politics for that matter) because at the end of the day, the voters lose no matter who's in charge. There's never a perfect leader that everyone will agree with and there's always something to complain or bitch about, so really, we can only pick the party that will "screw it up" less than the alternatives...

I think the CPC is doing an okay job running the country and it'd be interesting to see how well/bad they'd do with a majority government... the liberals and NDPs have had their hands in shaping this country for the better part of the last 20 years... so a lot of how our society functions now is a direct result of policies made during those years. Let's see what the Conservatives can do now and hope that they can steer the country in the right direction, socially and economically. I prefer my government in the middle but slightly to the right... we have too many tree-hugging lefties in this country and I don't want them running the government. :-p

Seriously, Stephen Harper, no matter how much you hate him and his party, is still looking to be a better leader than Ignatieff, Duceppe, or Layton. I can't even picture having Canada being run by any of those 3 listed... it's a scary thought to say the least.

[Meowjin]

What...are we losing some sort of basic freedom? Because economics is just about all I want the government running.

I will be voting for whoever has the economic policies that I like. I'm not really concerned about the rest.

id rather be poor with my liberties than rich and no freedom.

[Death2Theft]

So how does having the french around expecting to be bought like prostitutes help canada again?

[taylor192]

So how does having the french around expecting to be bought like prostitutes help canada again?
It does not.

I was glad to see the Conservatives included some NDP demands in the budget, cause it gives a nice balance of right-left and serves the majority of Canadians without buying votes from Quebexico.

I am disappointed in the NDP for allowing the government to fail. I suspect they did it cause their support in the polls was up cause support for the Greens was down, and they had a chance of winning a couple more seats - YET .... since the budget controversy the NDP have fallen by almost an equal amount that the Liberals have risen, as NDPers who are sooooo against the Conservatives jump ship to try and vote Liberal to give the Liberals the best chance of winning.

Kinda sad, cause the NDP have more to win with a Conservative minority if they allow the Conservatives to buy their vote. With the Liberals they are going to have to fight with the PQ for money, and the PQ have more seats.

[taylor192]

id rather be poor with my liberties than rich and no freedom.
That is fine, yet the 8% unemployed, the many underemployed, and the middle class stretched thin would disagree with you.

[Tapioca]

I dont follow politics closely enough myself, but just like how when that luger died in the olympics and suddenly everyone with a keyboard was an engineer, I dont think many people in here really have any idea what they are talking about either, regardless of whether they think they do.

I didn't agree with your first point nor your last point, but I will agree with you here.

On the internet, everyone's a critic; in real life, not so much.

[Klobbersaurus]

ignatif looks like a fool with this grin and has a french accent, has ties to PQ so he wont win
layton is ndp, no need for a comment here
the only reasonable choice is harper again but that puts us back where we are now cept we wasted 200mil on the election

[Ronin]

id rather be poor with my liberties than rich and no freedom.

Money = freedom.

[Bouncing Bettys]

CBC has a vote compass - takes about 10 minutes answering 30 questions and then places you with the party that most aligns with your answers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/03/26/vote-compass.html

edit: im still going through the survey and it seems really slow possibly because so many people are taking the survey

[Gilgamesh]

^its so hard to change an answer

[tiger_handheld]

I hope the conservatives win (majority), and Layton, Iganteiff , Duceppe STFU.

The 300mil should be deducted from the other party leaders salaries and given back to the tax payers.

[JD¹³]

If the Conservatives do win again, especially a majority, the opposition parties will owe a big debt to the Canadian taxpayers. I want them held accountable.

[StylinRed]

heard about this today


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbZjGGWk528


i thought it was going to be longer, but its not bad

[Graeme S]

heard about this today


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbZjGGWk528


i thought it was going to be longer, but its not bad
I'm no fan of harper, but even that is stretching things way thin and on the edge of bullshit.

[StylinRed]

lol yeah

that's why i was expecting it to be a lot longer

the view count is going up though, pretty surprised



On a related note, I was watching 60minutes the other night and they did a story about "Tax Havens" for US Corporations and they were talking mainly about Ireland and... Sweden i think it was; where US companies are moving offices, etc over to those areas because they're able to save millions from taxes but Another Country they mentioned was Canada and how US corps are moving here too to get away from US taxes... so i guess thats a + for cons -_-

[Meowjin]

anyone who complains about the government getting struck down should die in a (conservative fueled) fire. what did harper do in 2006?

How can you vote someone in who actually believes that the earth is actually 6000 years old?

[Meowjin]

lol yeah

that's why i was expecting it to be a lot longer

the view count is going up though, pretty surprised



On a related note, I was watching 60minutes the other night and they did a story about "Tax Havens" for US Corporations and they were talking mainly about Ireland and... Sweden i think it was; where US companies are moving offices, etc over to those areas because they're able to save millions from taxes but Another Country they mentioned was Canada and how US corps are moving here too to get away from US taxes... so i guess thats a + for cons -_-

I know my friend said he is so happy that the hst came in because it pretty much saved the movie industry here from the weak american dollar.

[goo3]

anyone who complains about the government getting struck down should die in a (conservative fueled) fire. what did harper do in 2006?

How can you vote someone in who actually believes that the earth is actually 6000 years old?

Stuff like this turns me off politics. Anyone ever read the comments section of globe and mail or other newspapers online? It's full of shit. Ppl say RS is dumb.. I often find it 10x smarter than the crap I read over there.

[tool001]

stop complaining about elections. as this is a part of democratic process, other parties have a option / right to call on the government for failing trust of the house. they didn't call them on the policies. they did call them be on contempt. which the are guility off.

secondly, how can people believe in a govt. which is being investigated by rcmp/election commission for fraud + all the other issues. doesn't it make u think what else they lied about?

[taylor192]

stop complaining about elections. as this is a part of democratic process, other parties have a option / right to call on the government for failing trust of the house. they didn't call them on the policies. they did call them be on contempt. which the are guility off.

secondly, how can people believe in a govt. which is being investigated by rcmp/election commission for fraud + all the other issues. doesn't it make u think what else they lied about?
A democracy serves the people, and an election right now is a disservice to Canadians. Canadians did not want the government held accountable for the contempt issue - and you'll notice none of the parties are campaigning on it. They are campaigning on the economy, even the NDP are, which shows the opposition was not trying to provide any service to Canadians by voting on the contempt issue.

[taylor192]

Should we start an election thread? here comes the first expensive Liberal promise without money behind it:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/03/29/cv-campaign-day-4.html

The Liberals unveiled a $1 billion campaign plank Tuesday that would help fund university and college educations for Canadian students.

Called the Canadian Learning Passport, the program would give $1,000 a year for four years tax-free to every high school student who chooses to go to university or college. The money would not have to be repaid. The annual stipend would rise to $1,500 a year, or $6,000 over four years, for students from low-income families, the party said.

Why even both doing this? Why not just give universities money and tell them to reduce tuition by $1000? Instead lets give every student, whether they need it or not, a $1000.

One of the financial blogs I read states that education will be the next bubble to burst - kids being corralled into higher education they don't need or use - and saddled with massive debt cause of it. This kind of spending only ensures that education will be the next bubble.

[taylor192]

Layton wants to cap credit card rates: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/03/29/cv-layton-credit-card-fees-954.html

I can hear lots of people saying this is a good idea - yet lets get one thing straight first: If you don't carry a balance, you pay ZERO fees.

Thus the real problem is not the RATE, its the DEBT.

So lets give people already bad with money more incentive to spend even more by giving them a lower rate on the debt they hold. Yes, that will reduce the amount of debt they carry...:rolleyes:

[Brianrietta]

Election time. Time to crack out this again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOWtXc2dUHw

[Death2Theft]

Can canadian companies move to the us and do the same? Or does the US tax more than canadians once your 10 mil+?
lol yeah

that's why i was expecting it to be a lot longer

the view count is going up though, pretty surprised



On a related note, I was watching 60minutes the other night and they did a story about "Tax Havens" for US Corporations and they were talking mainly about Ireland and... Sweden i think it was; where US companies are moving offices, etc over to those areas because they're able to save millions from taxes but Another Country they mentioned was Canada and how US corps are moving here too to get away from US taxes... so i guess thats a + for cons -_-

[Jermyzy]

Layton wants to cap credit card rates: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/03/29/cv-layton-credit-card-fees-954.html

I can hear lots of people saying this is a good idea - yet lets get one thing straight first: If you don't carry a balance, you pay ZERO fees.

Thus the real problem is not the RATE, its the DEBT.

So lets give people already bad with money more incentive to spend even more by giving them a lower rate on the debt they hold. Yes, that will reduce the amount of debt they carry...:rolleyes:

I completely agree with you 100% on this...retarded, people will just spend more and accumulate more debt

[Mizter]

Layton wants to cap credit card rates: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/03/29/cv-layton-credit-card-fees-954.html

I can hear lots of people saying this is a good idea - yet lets get one thing straight first: If you don't carry a balance, you pay ZERO fees.

Thus the real problem is not the RATE, its the DEBT.

So lets give people already bad with money more incentive to spend even more by giving them a lower rate on the debt they hold. Yes, that will reduce the amount of debt they carry...:rolleyes:


He should focus on capping cellphone bills...Then maybe I'd pay attention to what he has to say.

[Death2Theft]

Why do people call it quebexico?

[taylor192]

Why do people call it quebexico?

I think I started Quebexico on this forum, it is popular on my Ottawa car forums.

Quebec is given a $8B handout every year (of the $14B of transfer payments), and despite that and a huge population, their economy still struggles. Plus there's cheap booze, greasy food, and easy women. Thus we joked that Quebec is Canada's Mexico, aka Quebexico.

[Meowjin]

Should we start an election thread? here comes the first expensive Liberal promise without money behind it:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/03/29/cv-campaign-day-4.html



Why even both doing this? Why not just give universities money and tell them to reduce tuition by $1000? Instead lets give every student, whether they need it or not, a $1000.

One of the financial blogs I read states that education will be the next bubble to burst - kids being corralled into higher education they don't need or use - and saddled with massive debt cause of it. This kind of spending only ensures that education will be the next bubble.


he's at langara if you want to ask him.

[Meowjin]

http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/#clip440827

[Meowjin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MG049D7Zls&feature=player_embedded

[Phat_R]

Canada has done really well these last 4 years compared to other countries in the world -- we are the envy of many -- I think all political parties are corrupt but the Conservatives do a pretty damn good job of running the country esp considering it was a minority government.


Layton's idea is moronic -- make it easier for those in debt to carry more debt? riiiiiiight

[Graeme S]

Canada has done really well these last 4 years compared to other countries in the world -- we are the envy of many -- I think all political parties are corrupt but the Conservatives do a pretty damn good job of running the country esp considering it was a minority government.


Layton's idea is moronic -- make it easier for those in debt to carry more debt? riiiiiiight
While I acknowledge the reality of low credit card rates meaning people would apply for more debt, there are two sides to any coin:

Those who regularly carry debt are obviously not in a huge minority--there are most likely a significant number of people who carry debt regularly, but the number of people who do so unsustainably is most likely smaller.

Regardless of whether they are using it because of personal idiocy or poor planning, or what have you, the fact remains that the reason they have access to it is because it is profitable to lend these people money. If you reduce the profit, it will make the creditors less likely to lend more money, which means fewer people will use as much debt as possible.


While being very different situations, I see "people should be more responsible!"-only plans as akin to providing sex education, but never treatment for any diseases or repercussions that come from sexual contact. "If you were smart, you never would have gotten pregnant/that STD." Prevention (not borrowing to excess/more than you can pay back) is important, but unless everyone is willing to wipe the slate clean--which in my mind would only cause MORE issues-- we need to deal with treatment too.

[JD¹³]

While I acknowledge the reality of low credit card rates meaning people would apply for more debt, there are two sides to any coin:

Those who regularly carry debt are obviously not in a huge minority--there are most likely a significant number of people who carry debt regularly, but the number of people who do so unsustainably is most likely smaller.

Regardless of whether they are using it because of personal idiocy or poor planning, or what have you, the fact remains that the reason they have access to it is because it is profitable to lend these people money. If you reduce the profit, it will make the creditors less likely to lend more money, which means fewer people will use as much debt as possible.


While being very different situations, I see "people should be more responsible!"-only plans as akin to providing sex education, but never treatment for any diseases or repercussions that come from sexual contact. "If you were smart, you never would have gotten pregnant/that STD." Prevention (not borrowing to excess/more than you can pay back) is important, but unless everyone is willing to wipe the slate clean--which in my mind would only cause MORE issues-- we need to deal with treatment too.
We're talking about credit corporations, they are out to make money and do not care how many people they screw to get it. So while I agree with your philosophical look at the situation the reality is that it will never be the mentality adopted by either the government or the corporations. Do you see either saying "let's reduce profits because it's ethically the right thing to do"...?

As usual the NDP are pushing issues noone really cares about. Jack Layton defiantly stating he's running for PM make me chuckle, he's so disconnected from reality it's shocking. He will never even be the leader of the opposition.

[Tapioca]

Do you see either saying "let's reduce profits because it's ethically the right thing to do"...?

Governments do this all of the time and will continue to do so in the future. Think about safety standards on the food we eat.

[tool001]

Canada has done really well these last 4 years compared to other countries in the world -- we are the envy of many -- I think all political parties are corrupt but the Conservatives do a pretty damn good job of running the country esp considering it was a minority government.


Layton's idea is moronic -- make it easier for those in debt to carry more debt? riiiiiiight

people often say this. but canada coming out of economic crunch or fairing better than other countries during that time, has more to do with Paul martins policies than conservatives.

conse. came into power 2006. they were not major economic policy changes to merit canada's performace on the economic front.

[taylor192]

While I acknowledge the reality of low credit card rates meaning people would apply for more debt, there are two sides to any coin:

Regardless of whether they are using it because of personal idiocy or poor planning, or what have you, the fact remains that the reason they have access to it is because it is profitable to lend these people money. If you reduce the profit, it will make the creditors less likely to lend more money, which means fewer people will use as much debt as possible.
There are 2 sides to every coin, yet unfortunately this coin has 3 sides, aka the edge no-one considers - and Layton's rules could sharpen the edge into a knife.

If profit is reduced the CC will just look to replace it in other means, especially since now they have to take on more risk (ie stupid people spending more at low rates) for less reward (lower rates). They will hedge themselves against this greater risk by taking more from everyone in terms of fees to the merchant, or yearly fees to own a CC. Yet lets say Layton finds a way to limit those too...

What does a CC do now? This is where it could get fun: read the fine print. The CC company can cancel your card and demand the balance in full within 30 days. The CC company can lower your limit past your balance, forcing you to pay it before using credit. You can also bet any other CC you own will be watching and may do the same, rendering someone who has been making payments trying to get out of debt completely fucked without any credit.

Companies in the US have already done this as credit has decreased in the US, while it still expands here. Thus I may be a bit dramatic with my example, yet it has happened south of the border without any ridiculous government intervention, imagine what could happen here.

While being very different situations, I see "people should be more responsible!"-only plans as akin to providing sex education, but never treatment for any diseases or repercussions that come from sexual contact. "If you were smart, you never would have gotten pregnant/that STD." Prevention (not borrowing to excess/more than you can pay back) is important, but unless everyone is willing to wipe the slate clean--which in my mind would only cause MORE issues-- we need to deal with treatment too.
Then the correct move by Layton would be to address qualifications, not rates. Why can someone get several CCs with high limits and rack them all up? That's absurd, and what he should be addressing - yet that doesn't buy votes. Since > 50% of people carry a CC balance, limiting the rate buys votes.

[taylor192]

As usual the NDP are pushing issues noone really cares about. Jack Layton defiantly stating he's running for PM make me chuckle, he's so disconnected from reality it's shocking. He will never even be the leader of the opposition.
While I agree with you on the issue - you can bet many people do care. > 50% of people carry a CC balance and would benefit from this plan, and wouldn't care if others abuse it.

[JD¹³]

While I agree with you on the issue - you can bet many people do care. > 50% of people carry a CC balance and would benefit from this plan, and wouldn't care if others abuse it.
Fair enough, let me rephrase. The NDP are pushing an issue only people who lack personal responsibility and common sense care about. Thankfully the majority of people who carry a credit card balance won't actually vote NDP based solely on this electoral promise.

[91LS-VTak]

I would be very hesitant to vote Liberal because I'm afraid they'd cancel the F-35 purchase. After what they did with the Sea King replacements, i don't want our military to go through that again.

[Expresso]

I would be very hesitant to vote Liberal because I'm afraid they'd cancel the F-35 purchase. After what they did with the Sea King replacements, i don't want our military to go through that again.

Yea what the hell, Liberals claim they would back out of the F35 deal and hold an open competition for bids. What a waste of time!

[tool001]

I would be very hesitant to vote Liberal because I'm afraid they'd cancel the F-35 purchase. After what they did with the Sea King replacements, i don't want our military to go through that again.


Yea what the hell, Liberals claim they would back out of the F35 deal and hold an open competition for bids. What a waste of time!

its not a waste of time. you get ur money's worth. look up mmrca deal india is putting together. spending $10 billion, along with that they have offset clause which dictates that %50 of $ spent would be reinvested in india plus TOT. that means half of the $ will be reinvested in india by any company that wins the contract (meaning jobs/industry for canada, and future as a parts supplier). On top of the full tot and that they can modify source code if needed.

if u do readup on canada f-35 purchase they dont have any thing setup like that. on top of that no full tot. no source code .


Harper said the cost of the program will be xy to canada, where as pentagon has said due to costs overrun/inflation/parts it will be yz.

From MMRCA bid: source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_MRCA_competition
The French government has cleared full technology transfer of the Rafale to India, including that of the RBE2-AA Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar (which will be integrated with the Rafale by 2010[30]) and the transfer of software source codes, which will allow Indian scientists to re-programme a radar or any sensitive equipment if need be.[29] Without the software source codes, the IAF would have to specify mission parameters to foreign manufacturers to enable configuration of their radar, seriously compromising security in the process.




This tender will be the first time that an Offset clause has been included in an Indian defence deal, which led to many changes in the RFP as the Offset policy and life-cycle costs needed to be improved and finalized. This led to delays in issuing the RFPs.

The economic offset for the MMRCA tender was increased to 50% under the DPP 2006. The bidders must confirm the offset details in a separate proposal, to be submitted by 9 June 2008.[78] This brings the value of offsets in the MMRCA deal to almost 25,000 crore (US$5.6 billion).



dont you remember when air canada bought planes from airbus rather than going thru full transparent competition for bids.

[TheNewGirl]

As usual the NDP are pushing issues noone really cares about. Jack Layton defiantly stating he's running for PM make me chuckle, he's so disconnected from reality it's shocking. He will never even be the leader of the opposition.

Don't laugh.

It's just as likely you could have a NDP PM as a Liberal PM. And if the Con's largely Anti Liberal Campaign has it's intended effect Layton will end up opposition leader.

While here in BC they're not particularly strong, there's sections of the country that are pissed at the Cons and don't trust the Liberals so may flip to NDP. (That said it's still most likely we'll end up with a Con minority again).

Layton, while some of his policies seem scattered actually is not a dumb guy as politicians go. He's the only party leader that actively goes looking for votes from traditionally non voting demographics and can regularly be found involved with the much needed student/youth vote as well as pandering to the blue collar and low income voter who are increasingly feeling alienated by the Libs and the Cons.

I personally would not want to see the NDP leading the country but don't underestimate Layton's political prowess. He's making very calculated moves and if you look at cost vs gain in terms of votes, very smart ones.

[vitaminG]

its not a waste of time. you get ur money's worth. look up mmrca deal india is putting together. spending $10 billion, along with that they have offset clause which dictates that %50 of $ spent would be reinvested in india plus TOT. that means half of the $ will be reinvested in india by any company that wins the contract (meaning jobs/industry for canada, and future as a parts supplier). On top of the full tot and that they can modify source code if needed.

if u do readup on canada f-35 purchase they dont have any thing setup like that. on top of that no full tot. no source code .


india is also developing a 5th generation fighter with russia the Sukhoi/HAL FGFA. They obviously wont be holding a compprtitive bid whe the time comes to purchase that.

At the end of the day there is only one 5th gen fighter jet available to canada which is the f35 and a competition would be completely redundant and a waste of time and money.

[tool001]

india is also developing a 5th generation fighter with russia the Sukhoi/HAL FGFA. They obviously wont be holding a compprtitive bid whe the time comes to purchase that.

At the end of the day there is only one 5th gen fighter jet available to canada which is the f35 and a competition would be completely redundant and a waste of time and money.

for amount of air combat canadian air forces see, i dont see the need to get F-35. but i guess thats a whole different argument. canada is needed in manily for more logistical support type of role.

last combat missions were flown in 1991 iraq, and now in libiya. u dont spend money on a prized stallion if u dont plan to have him race often..

meanwhile rest of the military/navy is using 1970-80 equipment.

[roastpuff]

I wouldn't call the F-35 a prized stallion... it's more of a workhorse (F-16 equivalent) than anything else.

I agree in that the F-35 is the only viable option (politically speaking) for Canada - F-22 definitely overkill and not being exported, the Eurofighter unlikely to be purchased and also pretty much overkill, the Rafale falls under the same problems as the Eurofighter...

[tool001]

^ eurofighter/rafale overkill? when they cost less than F-35... lol


[URL="http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20110330/harper-disputed-fighter-jet-estimates-110330/20110330?s_name=election2011"] (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20110330/harper-disputed-fighter-jet-estimates-110330/20110330?s_name=election2011)
BRAMPTON, Ont. — Stephen Harper says he stands by his cost estimate for the F-35 stealth fighters.

The prime minister made the declaration Wednesday, even though the Pentagon's latest estimate for the version of the fighter jet Canada intends to buy is double what the Conservative government has projected.

In defending the $9-billion sticker price, Canada's Defence Department has said it will pay between US$70 million and US$75 million for each aircraft, a figure that the parliamentary budget officer has disputed.

The Pentagon recently projected it will pay $151 million for each aircraft for the F-35A, the standard runway take-off and landing version of the fighter bomber.
The U.S. Government Accountability Office, crunching numbers earlier this month, pegged the cost between $110 million and $115 million per plane. But defence experts said that report doesn't take into account recent changes to the program.

Harper says there are cost increases in the U.S. program that have no impact on Canada and he's confident of the numbers he's been given by officials.

"All the information suggests we're well within the cost estimates for these jets, which we need," Harper said during a campaign stop Wednesday.

Canada's CF-18 fighter jets, which the Joint Strike Fighter is meant to replace, will soon reach the end of their service life, he warned.

"We've been involved in a 15-year procurement process and all of the information we have from our aerospace industry, from our National Defence officials is that these costs are well within our estimates and well on track."

Under the arrangement with Washington, allies participating in the F-35 program gather annually to list the number of aircraft they intend to buy in any year. The Pentagon then negotiates the price with aircraft-maker Lockheed Martin.

In theory, the more aircraft that are built, the lower the unit cost.

The agreement signed by Ottawa last summer binds Canada with its allies. If one country decides to pull out or not purchase in a particular year, as Turkey has signalled it will do, the cost per aircraft goes up for the countries remaining in the pool.

The F-35 program has seen massive cost overruns, which have alarmed lawmakers in the U.S. The Pentagon's program is estimated to cost $386 billion, almost double what was initially proposed.

The Harper government has fought a pitched battle with the opposition parties and the parliamentary budget officer over its figures. When the purchase of 65 stealth fighters was first announced, the Conservatives said the price tag was $9 billion for the aircraft and up to $7 billion more for 20 years' worth of maintenance.

Kevin Page, the parliamentary budget officer, questioned that math in a recent scathing report, which pointed out National Defence had not done its own independent analysis of the numbers provided by Lockheed Martin.

[gars]

for amount of air combat canadian air forces see, i dont see the need to get F-35. but i guess thats a whole different argument. canada is needed in manily for more logistical support type of role.

last combat missions were flown in 1991 iraq, and now in libiya. u dont spend money on a prized stallion if u dont plan to have him race often..

meanwhile rest of the military/navy is using 1970-80 equipment.

Actually - the last combat missions for the RCAF was in Kosovo - which wasn't that long ago (12 years ago).

And I'm tired of that excuse. The Canadian Forces - the RCAF is not meant to be a logistical support force. We're not there just to support other countries in times of conflict.

The military is undergoing an overhaul anyways. The Army has received "new" tanks, not sure about the Navy though.

[JD¹³]

last combat missions were flown in 1991 iraq, and now in libiya. u dont spend money on a prized stallion if u dont plan to have him race often..
Canada did 10% of all air strikes in the Balkans in the late 90's, totaling 588 bombing missions. One of the reasons behind the purchase of the F35 is our growing reputation as a military world leader, not in size but in quality. We want to continue this trend and participate in more NATO and UN Security Council missions such as we are in Libya right now.

[tool001]

working in the healthcare industry and seeing the cuts to services,,, i rather have that money go to projects in canada.

kosovo -12 years ago and now libya. I STAND CORRECTED, and thanks for making my point.


military world leader ? pulling out of afghanistan when the job is half complete?

[gars]

working in the healthcare industry and seeing the cuts to services,,, i rather have that money go to projects in canada.


We can't live in a shell and only think of ourselves. Every country is connected through the world economy.

Look at Libya, and how much gas has gone up because of the conflict there. That drives all prices up here, from transportation, to food.

Having worked closely with the military for a number of years, I can tell you that they've received cuts as well.

[tool001]

We can't live in a shell and only think of ourselves. Every country is connected through the world economy.

Look at Libya, and how much gas has gone up because of the conflict there. That drives all prices up here, from transportation, to food.

Having worked closely with the military for a number of years, I can tell you that they've received cuts as well.

what happened in somalia? rwanda ? when u want to police the world, u cant be selective, maybe we should go into quatar, saudi arabia aswell.

prices went up again when US/NATO intervened. they were sliding back down after Gadafi took back control of some key towns.

and PS> i did serve in the reserves for 2 years ;)

[RRxtar]

what happens when russia stakes a claim to the canadian arctic and we dont have any way of muscling them out?

[roastpuff]

^ eurofighter/rafale overkill? when they cost less than F-35... lol



If we are paying about $70 million for F-35... that is indeed less than what Rafale/Eurofighter flyaway cost is. These are all quoted from Wikipedia. Who knows what the true cost of the F-35 is? I can't believe that it will cost $150 million.

Eurofighter:
Unit cost €90 million (system cost Tranche 3A)
Rafale:
Unit cost Rafale C: €64 million, US$82.3 million (flyaway cost, 2008)

[tool001]

what happens when russia stakes a claim to the canadian arctic and we dont have any way of muscling them out?

do u really think F-35 would be able to muscle Russia??? :whistle:
for arctic we need navy subs/destoryers, not airforce.

and PS. US ,supplier of the F-35 is also laying claim to canadian arctic.


that said, this is going way off topic.

[RRxtar]

simply flying fighters over the arctic to escort out russian planes in canadian airspace which we have continually done for years, is muscling them out.

[vitaminG]

The service life of this plane is going to be about 40 YEARS like 2050s and who knows whats gonna happen then, Canada could be fighting all kinds of wars by then.

By then my future kids or even grandkids could be fighting china or russia or fucking aliens for all i konw and I sure as hell would want them to have the best jets not the slightly cheaper and shittier ones we cheaped out on 40 years ago.

[Expresso]

Maybe tool001 would feel better if Chengdu put a bid for us to buy the J20s. I bet you they will sell it super cheap!
http://www.creativecrash.com/system/photos/000/119/968/119968/big/j20_10.jpg?1294114481

[Meowjin]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/24/thecanadiannixon?CMP=twt_gu

harper canadian nixon (think watergate)

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/966583--how-many-harper-taking-only-five-questions-per-day-from-media?bn=1

harper 5 questions a day lol

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Stephen+Harper+refuses+explain+limits+media+querie s/4536394/story.html

harper refuses to explain limits on media questions

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/canada-watches-its-democracy-erode/story-e6frg6ux-1226030310248

I like this line

Edmund Burke noted that all that was necessary for evil to triumph was for good men to do nothing. Canadians are certainly good and worthy folks, but they suffer an excess of civil obedience, politeness and lack of civic rage that could be harnessed to combat political atrophy. At a time when Arabs risk life and limb for political freedoms, Canadians seem largely apathetic about the erosion of their democracy.

Following rulings by Speaker Peter Milliken, for the first time in Canadian history, the government and a minister have been found to be in contempt of parliament for withholding information and misleading the house.

The Integrity Commissioner was so inept that she failed to uphold a single one of more than 200 whistle-blowing complaints.

Forced out of office by the ensuing public outcry, she was awarded a $C500,000 severance package on condition that neither she nor the government talk about it.

That is, a public servant paid by the taxpayer was financially gagged by yet more taxpayer money to stop taxpayers finding out what was going on.

don't be fooled guys! Don't make the same mistake the USA did with bush.

"But the economy is good"