[Eastwood]

Hey guys I just watched a very interesting documentary on turbo cars in F1 dating back to the 80's.

During this time F1 cars could run a 1.5 liter turbo engine with upwards of 1000hp. Still to this day power has not matched the old cars.

Why did they get of the turbos and will they ever return?

[Nightwalker]

From what I understand, just too fast and too dangerous.

[Blinky]

Why did they get rid of forced induction? Largely safety (or "safety", depending on your point of view), probably aided by cost constraints.

Will they ever return? It looks like it, but not like in the guise of the 80s; in 2013 or 14, I think the FIA is recommending/mandating an overall engine spec of inline fours with turbochargers.

[jungle168]

Didn't they just confirm that forced induction I-4 motors will be used in 2013 or soon after that?

[LP700-4]

Woudnt that result in a ton of lag, i mean a turbo that makes a 1.5l produce 1000hp+??? Daymm crazy shit

[cococly]

Yes, FIA is going to force F1 cars to use 1.6 liter 4 cylinders turbo engines by 2013. (If they wanted to be eco, why wouldn't they just decrease the number of laps for each race!!) I personally hate downsizing of formula one engines. 3.5L V12 -> 3.0L V10 -> 2.4L V8. F1 race is really boring after the first lap.

Formula One will switch to turbocharged four-cylinder engines from 2013, the FIA has revealed.

The new 1.6-litre engines will replace the current 2.4-litre V8s as part of F1’s drive to improve economy and lower emissions.

Alan Henry blog: F1 set for radical changes in 2013

The turbo units, which last appeared in F1 back in 1988, will be limited to 12,000rpm although an extended use of KERS systems should keep power at current levels. Economy should improve by around 35 per cent.

Teams will only be allowed five engines per season from 2013, and this will be reduced to four from 2014. Gearboxes will have to last five races, not the four at present.

The FIA has also removed the rule banning team orders from 2011, although teams can still be charged with bringing the sport intro disrepute.



Source: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/254527/

[cococly]

Woudnt that result in a ton of lag, i mean a turbo that makes a 1.5l produce 1000hp+??? Daymm crazy shit

Professional rally cars are equipped with Turbo Anti-lag systems (ALS), I am pretty sure Formula one teams with their resources could eliminate much of the turbo lags.

MOre on ALS: http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/bangbang.html

[GabAlmighty]

It's the same reason Group B doesn't "exist" anymore.

[CorneringArtist]

What others have said, too much power and too many accidents.

Another reason F1 is moving to the 1.6 turbo is that I heard the FIA is pushing for a "World Engine" that will be used in its various classes (ie. WTCC, WRC, etc.), just with different air restrictors and boost limits.

[unit]

technology in F1 advances so quickly, that if they didnt put major regulations on the cars, year after year they would shorten their laptimes by 3-4s... obviously this is a problem.

they can make much faster cars today then they did in the 80s, but if you look at the record of fatal f1 accidents, you'll see that after the 80s they really trailed off, and since 94 there hasnt been a single fatal accident. its all about saftey

[vitaminG]

1.6 I4 turbo has a lot more potential for trickle down technology as well. If the technology is more relevant to the street you might see more manufacturers building engines again.

It would be nice to see toyota, bmw and honda back making F1 engines

[CorneringArtist]

^ 4A-G revival? LOL. It's somewhat possible for Toyota to come back, and I'd like to see that, especially because of their work with Formula Atlantic.

[Meowjin]

Bernie stated on the grid walk to Martin Brundle, that it's all about the noise. He said the v8's have the best noise and thus more attractive for the sport.

[Timpo]

1.6 I4 turbo has a lot more potential for trickle down technology as well. If the technology is more relevant to the street you might see more manufacturers building engines again.

It would be nice to see toyota, bmw and honda back making F1 engines

the problem is, it will be limited to 12,000rpm.
it won't rev 20,000+rpm like some F1 engines.

my guess is it'll sound just like modded high revving B16 turbo.

[spyker]

Bernie stated on the grid walk to Martin Brundle, that it's all about the noise. He said the v8's have the best noise and thus more attractive for the sport.

I much prefered the sound of the v10's,they had a much more violent scream to them over the current V8's.

[danizer]

i wonder how many engines they'll get using forced induction

[eurochevy]

they used to have monsterous twin turbo engines in the 80's but just too fast / powerful for their lack of car structure safety and also their downforce..we should bring them back lol

[Mr.C]

We need a season of unrestricted goodness. Sure, shitty teams would get their asses kicked, but who cares about Force India an ilk anyway?

[impactX]

The new engine rules are crap. The big constructors (such as Ferrari and Mercedes) already voiced their opinion that turbo I4 will not do anything in marketing their brands.

In reality, if I want to see an engine last forever, I would go watch Le Mans. To have an F1 engine last for like 5 race weekends, you could already get a sense of how de-turned it is.

[danizer]

the most recent reformation in rules has caused an earthquake in established manufacturers like ferrari and maclaren...it would be interesting to see the plethora of new technology developed by them for turbo engines

as for the idea that formula one is all about big engines...i think that formula one is about building a car as powerful as it can be under certain restrictions...as long as they dont put out the single engine supplier, formula one lives on with turbo :fullofwin:

[jstn86]

was it just me or did everyone read

http://i52.tinypic.com/2d8eyr7.jpg

in their mind?

was it just me? :alone:

[Great68]

I think F1 trying to "Reduce emissions" and "increase fuel economy" completely laughable.

These are RACE cars built to drive around in circles for no other useful purpose than to entertain spectators. The whole sport is fundamentally wasteful.

So they make all these rule changes and save 0.5 MPG, big fucking deal.

[Timpo]

The new engine rules are crap. The big constructors (such as Ferrari and Mercedes) already voiced their opinion that turbo I4 will not do anything in marketing their brands.

True...because Ferrari or Mercedes...including Toyota (LFA for example) always like to say "This is basically a detuned F1 engine" sort of stuff.

I4 rule would be beneficial for Honda because they make a lot of I4s...but Ferraris are always V12-V8 so they can't really say "This V12 is full of F1's 4 cyl technology. "

[danizer]

True...because Ferrari or Mercedes...including Toyota (LFA for example) always like to say "This is basically a detuned F1 engine" sort of stuff.

I4 rule would be beneficial for Honda because they make a lot of I4s...but Ferraris are always V12-V8 so they can't really say "This V12 is full of F1's 4 cyl technology. "

maybe it will lead to ferrari developing a 4 cyl super car :fullofwin::fullofwin::fullofwin:

[MindBomber]

maybe it will lead to ferrari developing a 4 cyl super car :fullofwin::fullofwin::fullofwin:

At first that sounds a bit ridiculous, but if you seriously consider the idea there's really no reason to not produce 4 cylinder turbo super cars.

600hp+ K20/24 engines are so well proven they can be built with daily driver reliability using off the shelf parts, and that's a Honda engine utilizing after-market engineering. Now, inject the developments passed down from F1 into those engines and I see no reason why they could not compete with a V8,V10 or V12. Superficially they may not be as cool as a V10, but in terms of performance there are potential significant weight savings.

[Vale46Rossi]

Y no turbo in carerra 4s?

[cococly]

600hp+ K20/24 engines are so well proven they can be built with daily driver reliability using off the shelf parts, and that's a Honda engine utilizing after-market engineering. .


Proof? :speechless:

[Death2Theft]

Cuz Aryton Senna dead so.

[Death2Theft]

He be blowing up your mind as usual with his retardedness.
Good luck getting 600hp for the average idiot thats gonna put regular in the tank once in awhile, let alone 94 octane.
Proof? :speechless:

[Timpo]

At first that sounds a bit ridiculous, but if you seriously consider the idea there's really no reason to not produce 4 cylinder turbo super cars.

600hp+ K20/24 engines are so well proven they can be built with daily driver reliability using off the shelf parts, and that's a Honda engine utilizing after-market engineering. Now, inject the developments passed down from F1 into those engines and I see no reason why they could not compete with a V8,V10 or V12. Superficially they may not be as cool as a V10, but in terms of performance there are potential significant weight savings.
that's because 4cyl is typically for economical cars...Yaris, Civic, Echo, Tercel, etc...

whereas V10 or V12 have this cool factor...

[MindBomber]

Like I said Timpo, the benefit to a V10/12 is partially superficial, a turbo charged 4 cylinder can match the power output. Porsche used 4 cylinder engines with great success for years before moving to higher displacement engines, and now they're bringing the 4 cylinder back in the 2011 Boxster.


Proof? :speechless:

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=76972&highlight=600hp
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72072&highlight=600hp
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=882152&postcount=824

[danizer]

i believe the difference between a 4cyl and a v8 v10 v12 whatever producing the same output is where the power comes from...
time will tell guys so CTFO

[Great68]

Like I said Timpo, the benefit to a V10/12 is partially superficial, a turbo charged 4 cylinder can match the power output. Porsche used 4 cylinder engines with great success for years before moving to higher displacement engines, and now they're bringing the 4 cylinder back in the 2011 Boxster.



Peak power output may be matched, but the power delivery characteristics of an N/A V8 vs a turbo 4 banger would be very different.

Plus *in my opinion* a 4 banger will NEVER sound as good as V8, V10, or V12.