[LiquidTurbo]

I found this very interesting.

We all know that China is undergoing economic growth and breakneck speed, and recently surpassed the USA as the no.1 manufacturing country in the world. But that doesn't come without some growing pains. Some interesting insight into some of the other parts of China that people might not have known about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E&feature=feedwll

[K.Dubz]

Intense 64 million empty apartments!

[Death2Theft]

Just when u thought tinseltown was bad.

[willystyle]

This video is partially bias, in the sense that, most of those apartments you see sitting empty are probably used as investment properties.

According to Chinese beliefs, if an apartment has never been occupied, it's still considered new, regardless of how long it's been sitting there vacant. The value of the property drops drastically, if the apartment is occupied. Which then makes it's more difficult to flip to obtain a high ROI. Hence, most real estate investors in China leaves it vacant for that purpose.

[LiquidTurbo]

^ of course it's biased, all reporting has a degree of 'bias' of some sort.

[achiam]

The average Chinese family earns $8,000 / year.
I can't even relate to how rich the China kids in Vancouver driving R8s must be back home. Probably God-like status.

[Carl Johnson]

Look up James Chanos if you want to reinforce you negative view on the Chinese housing market. He is pretty much the biggest China bear on Wall Street and he is not shy about it.

[gars]

When I was in China a few years back - mostly up in the north - it was scary seeing these random cities popping up here and there. You'd be driving down this vacant highway, then suddenly you'd see street lights, and the highway opens up - and you see this random city.

But you know what though - these cities stay empty because there aren't any jobs. All you need is somebody to open up a factory, and all the people will pour into the city, and with them - you'll get all the shops and stuff opening up.

Chinese consumer culture is big, I think it's much bigger than it is here - but people don't make the same amount of money, so a lot of it is from cheaper markets, and more ghetto shops.

[insomniac]

THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH ! :troll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-TeMHys0

[CRS]

Walked into this thread thinking it was about ghosts and hauntings from abandoned cities/malls.

[asahai69]

history has already shown us what happens when there is a massive divide between the rich and poor. i wont be surprised if shit hits the fan in china

[MWR34]

Intense 64 million empty apartments!

if everyone in Canada bought 1 apartment, we're only half way there:failed:

[twitchyzero]

eyeopener vid

[Death2Theft]

Obviously you havn't watched the video. What kind of factory would be able to employ someone who can make 50% downpayment and balance in 3 years?
With the condos at 70-100k and the average worker making 6k a year. How the FUCK does that work?
When I was in China a few years back - mostly up in the north - it was scary seeing these random cities popping up here and there. You'd be driving down this vacant highway, then suddenly you'd see street lights, and the highway opens up - and you see this random city.

But you know what though - these cities stay empty because there aren't any jobs. All you need is somebody to open up a factory, and all the people will pour into the city, and with them - you'll get all the shops and stuff opening up.

Chinese consumer culture is big, I think it's much bigger than it is here - but people don't make the same amount of money, so a lot of it is from cheaper markets, and more ghetto shops.

[FerrariEnzo]

This video is partially bias, in the sense that, most of those apartments you see sitting empty are probably used as investment properties.

According to Chinese beliefs, if an apartment has never been occupied, it's still considered new, regardless of how long it's been sitting there vacant. The value of the property drops drastically, if the apartment is occupied. Which then makes it's more difficult to flip to obtain a high ROI. Hence, most real estate investors in China leaves it vacant for that purpose.
how would one do investments if the buildings starts falling apart.. proof is the big mall... its going to take 10years for an avg worker to save enough downpayment... by then, are the apartment still going to be around?

[willystyle]

how would one do investments if the buildings starts falling apart.. proof is the big mall... its going to take 10years for an avg worker to save enough downpayment... by then, are the apartment still going to be around?
I don't see why not, I am just conveying my message in behalf of how the real estate market works in China.

I highly doubt that it takes 10 years for an apartment to flip over there. Another point that was not brought up in the video is that, a lot of those apartments are vacant because they were purchased as vacation homes too, so the owners don't live there year round. There's no maintenance fees in China for many apartments, which can be another reason why there's structural damage.

You can get a pretty decent place in China for 100K CAD, in our terms, it's pennies, compared to what we pay here.

[optiblue]

Sigh, if only Vancouver had prices like those apartments :(
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[EmperorIS]

pretty much aberdeen centre

[midnight_r]

thats crappy how poor people live in B-city...

[.Renn.Sport]

LOL the South China Mall....

its empty cuz of bad management and it changed ownership a few times.

my friend is currently building a new mall (along with a huge residential development) less then 15 minutes away from the south china mall, it will be completed in summer and the mall already have zero vacancy with LV, Gucci, Chanel etc all moving in.

[ShadowBun]

^somehow ur title doesnt help me believe ur post

[Leopold Stotch]

Obviously you havn't watched the video. What kind of factory would be able to employ someone who can make 50% downpayment and balance in 3 years?
With the condos at 70-100k and the average worker making 6k a year. How the FUCK does that work?

i did a bit of research on the chinese middle class to do an essay on cuisine

and the chinese middle class is in the range of 300-350 million and they make around 15k a year


so there are people who make enough to buy stuff like that,

[CP.AR]

holy shit

50% up front
the remainder within 3 years

[bing]

^LOL no kidding
most people have a hard time putting down 10% here in N.A. sometimes

but I think we must remember that people in China are thrifty, hard working and really good savers. but I still don't know if they can afford these units if the average income is 15k.

this video demonstrates capitalism very well as a system that requires the maintainence of perpetual economic growth at the expense of everything else.

[Meowjin]

Look up John Chanos if you want to reinforce you negative view on the Chinese housing market. He is pretty much the biggest China bear on Wall Street and he is not shy about it.

James. And he's greek ^_^

[TheNewGirl]

Vancouver is headed this way, though on a much smaller scale but still.

This is what's happening to a lot of the world. Look at some of the half deserted areas in the US thanks to forclosures too.

[gdoh]

holy shit that is ghetto. a real eye opener

^@thenewgirl

i dont think much will change until the big guy starts to actually give a fuck about us little guys

[Psykopathik]

oh look its a video of the Olympic village...wait..

[BNR32_Coupe]

hmm.. smart way to create GDP: tear down buildings and rebuild them, even if the build is perfectly okay.

china's sitting on a huge pile of US treasury bonds, which they can sell at any time or earn dividends on when they mature. i doubt their bubble will burst anytime soon, but if it pops before the treasury bonds mature then they better hope there's a market for these US treasury bonds. if china can maintain their GDP growth until the US treasury bonds mature (assuming they purchased a large batch in 2009, expiring 15 years later in 2024) then the US market will inflate heavily at once, at which point they better have a strong dollar or will be forced to issue more bonds, and if people dont buy them then the US will be a third world country or taken over by the chinese LOLz

[LiquidTurbo]

^ looool

Something is wrong with the system is there are 64 million unused apartments and so many living in poverty.

[Amuse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h7V3Twb-Qk

[dark0821]

am not suprised... xD

but i gotta think the amount of drifting pratice you can get in if the street was that empty @ 11am on thursday which is coming up rite abt now...

back to vancouver.. hmm... what? empty street =.=

[TheNewGirl]

hmm.. smart way to create GDP: tear down buildings and rebuild them, even if the build is perfectly okay.

china's sitting on a huge pile of US treasury bonds, which they can sell at any time or earn dividends on when they mature. i doubt their bubble will burst anytime soon, but if it pops before the treasury bonds mature then they better hope there's a market for these US treasury bonds. if china can maintain their GDP growth until the US treasury bonds mature (assuming they purchased a large batch in 2009, expiring 15 years later in 2024) then the US market will inflate heavily at once, at which point they better have a strong dollar or will be forced to issue more bonds, and if people dont buy them then the US will be a third world country or taken over by the chinese LOLz

The US hits their debt ceiling in the next 20 days and will no longer be able to make their interest payments to China, essentially defaulting on their loans. This WILL have a huge impact on all the markets tied to the US Currency should it happen including ours, but heavily those who the US owes money to, the largest being China.

Scary Thing: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[gdoh]

The US hits their debt ceiling in the next 20 days and will no longer be able to make their interest payments to China, essentially defaulting on their loans. This WILL have a huge impact on all the markets tied to the US Currency should it happen including ours, but heavily those who the US owes money to, the largest being China.

Scary Thing: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

??

[TheNewGirl]

The US has a cap on their public debt called the Debt Ceiling (at $14.294 trillion dollars). Once they hit it they will no longer be able to borrow money, make interest payments or print more currency. Currently they're at $14.227 trillion dollars. Republicans are stalling on legislation to increase the debt ceiling. If this happens as I said they default on all their loans (primarily to China) which will levy charges and start to exponentially increase the debt (what's the NSF fee on a BILLION dollar payment?).

It's kinda a crazy situation... cause you know if I max out my credit card and miss a bunch of payments I don't go back to the credit card company and say 'hey I need you to up my limit so I can buy milk'.

But at the same time, if they don't it will be be the beginning of the US Currency collapse (well... arguably that would be 3 years ago but that depends what you consider the start of this shit).

Add note... it's 30 days not 20. I had heard May 6th but apparently D Day is May 16th

[gdoh]

interesting.....

wont happen if they go every1 goes

[wasabisashimi]

looks like henderson Mall in Coquitlam to me.

CHinese needs to make more babies to fill those shops and homes in 10-15 yrs. They should Ban contraception

[TheNewGirl]

The democrats can make some really really radical cuts and buy time to about June 8th, but beyond that they can't make it unless the Republicans easy up on the legislation.

Essentially the two parties are playing chicken with each other at this point. :(

That said, a lot of economists have been saying this is was unavoidable as far back as 5 years ago. The US's external debt is at 101% of their GDP which is unsustainable, and unlike places like Italy and Greece and Ireland there is no European Union to bail the US out.

Wasabisasimi > You're totally right, it does.

[Phat_R]

China is fucked

[BNR32_Coupe]

The democrats can make some really really radical cuts and buy time to about June 8th, but beyond that they can't make it unless the Republicans easy up on the legislation.

Essentially the two parties are playing chicken with each other at this point. :(

That said, a lot of economists have been saying this is was unavoidable as far back as 5 years ago. The US's external debt is at 101% of their GDP which is unsustainable, and unlike places like Italy and Greece and Ireland there is no European Union to bail the US out.

Wasabisasimi > You're totally right, it does.

k why isnt this on the news?

actually, i dont watch tv.

WHO HAS A TV? SOMEBODY FLIP TO CNN!!

on a more serious note, mind = blown. haven't kept track of that. thats extremely serious, i wonder why the media isn't whoring this topic. we are practically america's annex, we should be seeing this all over the place, riots, chicks taking tops off in rage, etc

[gdoh]

i think it was on the news they were given a deadline and it got extended

[Nightwalker]

Republicans I feel are dead set on destroying the US.

This explains some things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

Economist Paul Krugman summarized the strategy in February 2010: "Rather than proposing unpopular spending cuts, Republicans would push through popular tax cuts, with the deliberate intention of worsening the government’s fiscal position. Spending cuts could then be sold as a necessity rather than a choice, the only way to eliminate an unsustainable budget deficit."

[BNR32_Coupe]

China is fucked

read posts

[flagella]

Some really weird ideas floating here lol.

[BNR32_Coupe]

Republicans I feel are dead set on destroying the US.

This explains some things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

Economist Paul Krugman summarized the strategy in February 2010: "Rather than proposing unpopular spending cuts, Republicans would push through popular tax cuts, with the deliberate intention of worsening the government’s fiscal position. Spending cuts could then be sold as a necessity rather than a choice, the only way to eliminate an unsustainable budget deficit."

lower revenue despite many fixed costs? recipe for disaster. not sure how the government can just restructure its finances like a public company. they US is fucked lol

my prediction is the bar will be raised again, and again and again. it will be perpetual, it always has been a trend and will continue to do so until the US can acquire a substantial amount of resources to pay off its debt (perhaps by waging more wars which arguably can have a long-term ROI)

[TheNewGirl]

k why isnt this on the news?

actually, i dont watch tv.

WHO HAS A TV? SOMEBODY FLIP TO CNN!!

on a more serious note, mind = blown. haven't kept track of that. thats extremely serious, i wonder why the media isn't whoring this topic. we are practically america's annex, we should be seeing this all over the place, riots, chicks taking tops off in rage, etc

It is on the news.

I read and listen to the economic news every day. that's how I found out about it.

And frankly, most Canadians have about as little a grasp on the American political systems as they do of ours.

gdoh> The deadline and extension you're referring to was on passing the budget, the two parties were about to run out of money in the 30 day extention, which would have met government employees would cease being paid (that was last friday I believe), they resolved this issue at the 11th hour, I expect the debt ceiling issue will pan out similiarly.

Here's a good summery of what all this means: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Debt-ceiling-What-you-need-to-cnnm-2395206300.html?x=0

[tool001]

lol

china is not fucked, and neither is the US, china needs US, and US needs china.

US needs to controll its federal reserve bank and its Policies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K38khtCrN-4

US economy failed due to lack of government intervention (NOT BECAUSE OF BLACK PEOPLE TOOK OUT SOME BAD MORTGAGES)

good watch/reasons why US economy failed. (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm9VrKlXT_A

USD is be ousted as world reserve currency and has a direct relation to price of gold.

[Hehe]

^

No, the idea of lowering revenue is to push US to the limit. At its bursting point, people would be more willingly to accept drastic measures.

If you go today asking every civil worker to take a 20% on their benefits, they will probably tell you to f*ck off... but if you tell them, take the -20% or nothing, they will feel that the -20% offer is a pretty good idea.

I take this as a political strategy. Both republican and democrats know they need to do drastic cuts, but neither want to come out to say it out loud. So, they would just repeat what Roosevelt did back in the 30s. Announcing a default with a controlled consequence.

This will bring US more bargaining chips on the discussion board. Besides, if you think US won't dare to pull sth this massive off, you couldn't be more wrong. US as the biggest economy in the world will drag every single country in the world down. There's simply no substitution for US. If US has to lose 40%, the others have to lose at least that much if not more.

[Cman333]

Wow....thats crazy....

Cant believe how empty it is

[TheNewGirl]

Everyone got fucked by abandoning gold backing. The only currency that is even partially gold backed now is the Swiss Franc.

Tool001, that first vid has an error.

Also: Greenspan is the fucking devil IMO.


Hehe: The US isn't actually the largest economy in the world any longer. China is, and soon India's going to knock them down another notch (if half the the EU wasn't already starving they would have already too). Their golden age is over.

[BNR32_Coupe]

oh man.. i dont want to have anything to do with this. i better vote conservative to be safe

[Meowjin]

We all buy into the paper system. The blank are laughing all the way to the bank.