[pearlaudi]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42613518/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/


The U.S. Attorney for New York has indicted the founders the three largest online poker companies in the U.S. and seized their websites in a major crackdown on internet gambling.

The indictment charges eleven defendants — including the founders of PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker, and Absolute Poker — with bank fraud, money laundering, and illegal gambling offenses.

In addition, the domains for FullTiltPoker.net and AbsolutePoker.com have been seized by the FBI and replaced by this pleasant reminder that gambling is illegal.

The indictment essentially spells out a scheme by the poker companies to set up phony bank accounts to process illegal gambling transactions, either by lying to the banks about the nature of the transactions or by targeting struggling banks to who need the money to stay afloat.

In addition to the criminal charges, the US Attorney filed a civil suit seeking $3 billion in damages. The FBI froze 75 bank accounts and seized five websites, in addition to the arrests that were made today.

The bank and wire fraud charges carry a sentence of up to 30 years in prison.

[subwoffers]

All those sites are still up...

[quasi]

All those sites are still up...



In Canada, we aren't the United States last time I checked.

[Ch28]

Down in US but up everywhere else i.e. Canada/Europe

[Hondaracer]

yea, you can obviously tell when you receive payouts from these sites they try to keep it as low key as possible

Bodog goes through like 2 different banks and prints checks at like a kinko's or somthing in Alberta for Canadian customers, never do you ever see "bodog" on anything, and the reason for any payment you receive is "marketting"

[Jsunu]

Hmmm i wonder how this affects sponsorships of those televised poker tournaments in the States

[Nightwalker]

Woah! Looks like Party Poker and Golden Palace aren't affected. Lucky for them.

[rageguy]

For me, full tilt and poker stars are dead. :(

[b0unce. [?]]

http://edge1.pokerjunkie.com/img/?id=3085

[bloodmack]

poker is a fucking joke, takes no skill its purely based on luck. The only skill is holding a straight face. I hate the commercialization of poker these last few years.

[Jgresch]

Gambling is illegal? Lolwut.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Hondaracer]

poker is a fucking joke, takes no skill its purely based on luck. The only skill is holding a straight face. I hate the commercialization of poker these last few years.

go win the world series then

i hate poker but its probably not as easy as that..

[StylinRed]

Gambling is illegal? Lolwut.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

in america its only legal on reserves, atlantic city, vegas (that im certain about)

edit: i stand corrected Mississippi allows it in Tunica and Riverboat casinos etc and not all states allow reserves to set up gambling

[sonick]

go win the world series then

i hate poker but its probably not as easy as that..

+1, I don't even gamble and I know that it takes much more skill than it seems.

[quasi]

poker is a fucking joke, takes no skill its purely based on luck. The only skill is holding a straight face. I hate the commercialization of poker these last few years.

If you don't think there are people out there beating the game both online and live consistently you really don't have a clue or an educated opinion on the subject. For most people this isn't the case but there are lots of people who make a living and some who make a REALLY GOOD LIVING doing it.

[punkwax]

poker is a fucking joke, takes no skill its purely based on luck. The only skill is holding a straight face. I hate the commercialization of poker these last few years.

:failed:

[TheKingdom2000]

poker is a fucking joke, takes no skill its purely based on luck. The only skill is holding a straight face. I hate the commercialization of poker these last few years.

you're trolling right?

[taylor192]

If you don't think there are people out there beating the game both online and live consistently you really don't have a clue or an educated opinion on the subject. For most people this isn't the case but there are lots of people who make a living and some who make a REALLY GOOD LIVING doing it.

Read about the MIT students who beat the Black Jack tables. They found a way to minimize the risk of the luck of the draw, yet they acknowledge that without a huge financial backing they wouldn't be able to sit at the tables long enough to recoup any losses if they hit a string of bad luck.

Poker is a game, not a sport. Games have an element of chance. Thus despite how good any poker player is they are still bound by the luck of the draw. Their skill allows them to calculate the risk of that luck of the draw better than most, yet it still comes down to luck, not skill.

For everyone 1 person winning, there's a table of people losing. For every 1 person winning big, there's 10s or 100s or 1000s losing.

[GLOW]

poker is a fucking joke, takes no skill its purely based on luck. The only skill is holding a straight face. I hate the commercialization of poker these last few years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80iVLIJ7m0A

[quasi]

Read about the MIT students who beat the Black Jack tables. They found a way to minimize the risk of the luck of the draw, yet they acknowledge that without a huge financial backing they wouldn't be able to sit at the tables long enough to recoup any losses if they hit a string of bad luck.

Poker is a game, not a sport. Games have an element of chance. Thus despite how good any poker player is they are still bound by the luck of the draw. Their skill allows them to calculate the risk of that luck of the draw better than most, yet it still comes down to luck, not skill.

For everyone 1 person winning, there's a table of people losing. For every 1 person winning big, there's 10s or 100s or 1000s losing.

I know for every winner there is a shitload of a losers but to say that it's a soley a game of only luck like buddy did is retarded. If you keep making +EV plays overtime you will win. That doesn't mean you arern't going to have losing sessions but over time you'll come up ahead.

I personally know a few people who have made a healthy living at poker over the past 6-7 years and continue to do so. These guys even pay taxes on their winnings, have gotten mortgages and what not. I'm not talking about the guys on TV with millions of dollars, I'm talking about online grinders who make a living off other peoples mistakes.

[Jsunu]

poker is a fucking joke, takes no skill its purely based on luck. The only skill is holding a straight face. I hate the commercialization of poker these last few years.

I think what really bothers me about this statement is the fact that you distill poker as people who are really just good liars with luck. But poker is much more than that, it strategy/math/intimidation/deception all rolled into one event.

Skill is much more involved in this than just keeping a straight face and hoping luck is on your side. If this were the case, there would no one that would seriously profit from poker.

[Blinky]

Read about the MIT students who beat the Black Jack tables. They found a way to minimize the risk of the luck of the draw, yet they acknowledge that without a huge financial backing they wouldn't be able to sit at the tables long enough to recoup any losses if they hit a string of bad luck.

Poker is a game, not a sport. Games have an element of chance. Thus despite how good any poker player is they are still bound by the luck of the draw. Their skill allows them to calculate the risk of that luck of the draw better than most, yet it still comes down to luck, not skill.

For everyone 1 person winning, there's a table of people losing. For every 1 person winning big, there's 10s or 100s or 1000s losing.

There is no luck in a draw, just probability.

Those MIT students didn't bet big until it was probable that they would actually win. Determining the conditions where probability is in their favour is a skill, not luck. Similarly a poker player can avoid betting big until it is probable that they will win. Alternatively, a good poker player can make money out of situations where, by draw, they will probably lose, but due to other circumstances, can (and do) win. This is a gross oversimplication of course. The problem with televised poker is that it, too, is too often a gross oversimplication.

Also, it is entirely possible to have a table of winners being fed by one or two donkeys. It happens more often than you'd think.

BTW, by your definition, baseball is a game of chance too. If a batter breaks his bat, is that not "bad luck?". (I don't disagree with you, though, that poker is not a sport).

[jigga250]

All those sites are still up...

absolute poker is down, with the fbi message

[AutozamAZ-3]

wow. people are still going to gamble online. all this does is give all business to online gambling sites that are overseas.

they just cant tax online gambling or something?

my 2 cents

[hal0g0dv2]

ouch

[Meowjin]

Good.

[PornMaster]

No wonder I haven't been seeing any US fish anymore......

[bloodmack]

I guess poker is like racing, not many people acknowledge it as a sport but it still requires training and a mental physique that is unrecognized?

I still don't like how commercialized its become.. seriously who the fuck actually watches those shows late at night?

[Manic!]

I'm inVegas and http://www.absolutepoker.com/ is down but the other 2 are up.

[El Bastardo]

Paddy Power (huge UK/Ireland gaming site) dropped support for Canada a month or so ago. They hadn't had US customers since the UIGEA was introduced in 07. I guess they see us as being influenced by the US with respect to gaming.

This looks like a sign of things to come for other online gaming sites.


Oh, and there are differing laws from state-to-state with respect to casinos. They're not all native-owned or riverboat casinos. The reason the US wants to remove the option for online casinos is because they can't be taxed. Most of these places get their gaming licenses from the Caribbean for those exact reasons.

[fliptuner]

Read about the MIT students who beat the Black Jack tables. They found a way to minimize the risk of the luck of the draw, yet they acknowledge that without a huge financial backing they wouldn't be able to sit at the tables long enough to recoup any losses if they hit a string of bad luck.

Poker is a game, not a sport. Games have an element of chance. Thus despite how good any poker player is they are still bound by the luck of the draw. Their skill allows them to calculate the risk of that luck of the draw better than most, yet it still comes down to luck, not skill.

For everyone 1 person winning, there's a table of people losing. For every 1 person winning big, there's 10s or 100s or 1000s losing.

There's a very big difference between poker and blackjack/roulette. In the latter, one is playing against odds/probability/percentages. While odds do play a role in poker, that's not all it's based on - there's still a human factor that can be exploited.

[CanadaGoose]

Guess the owners just didn't know when to fold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57C-SdiV9l4

[SkinnyPupp]

Uh oh I have like $900 sitting in my absolute poker account :eek:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[goo3]

Games have an element of chance. Thus despite how good any poker player is they are still bound by the luck of the draw. Their skill allows them to calculate the risk of that luck of the draw better than most, yet it still comes down to luck, not skill.

For everyone 1 person winning, there's a table of people losing. For every 1 person winning big, there's 10s or 100s or 1000s losing.

You have it wrong. The skill comes in playing the opponent, not the hand. Some ppl can read your birthday off your forehead.

[liu13]

poker is a skill believe me, it's a mental sport, if you can discipline yourself, you can make a living off this game

i did for the many months i didnt have a job

[Ronin]

poker is a fucking joke, takes no skill its purely based on luck. The only skill is holding a straight face. I hate the commercialization of poker these last few years.

To a certain extent that's true. There's the odd occasion where a complete unknown wins a bracelet but luck doesn't explain why, for the most part, you see the same few players make final tables every time.

Luck doesn't explain why Doyle Brunson, Stu Ungar, and Johnny Chan won back-to-back Main Events. It might explain why Phil Hellmuth has 11 bracelets though since I always see that dude flipping out after losing pots.

But poker is all about skill. If it wasn't...everyone would play poker for a living. Who the fuck wouldn't?

[Ronin]

Is this why I get an "Update required" but then can't download the update when I try to start my FullTilt client?

[BNR32_Coupe]

this thread: poker gaming site bust -> is poker a game or a sport?

[Gt-R R34]

I know for every winner there is a shitload of a losers but to say that it's a soley a game of only luck like buddy did is retarded. If you keep making +EV plays overtime you will win. That doesn't mean you arern't going to have losing sessions but over time you'll come up ahead.

I personally know a few people who have made a healthy living at poker over the past 6-7 years and continue to do so. These guys even pay taxes on their winnings, have gotten mortgages and what not. I'm not talking about the guys on TV with millions of dollars, I'm talking about online grinders who make a living off other peoples mistakes.

I paid for a couple of years tuition playing online poker.

Tell me that it's all luck. LOL, my poker friends that do it for a living does exactly was quasi says plus owns more then 1 property because of their poker "luck" apparently.

He's only bitter because he loses at it. Come down to RR play with the boys @ 5/10 and tell me how your luck holds up. :)

[Meowjin]

alot of salty, lazy motherfuckers in this thread.

[PornMaster]

alot of salty, lazy motherfuckers in this thread.

salty? Lazy? Someones Jelly :fullofwin:

Yes there are lazy poker players. However there are lazy people in every single job. You can't stereotype a group of people just because ONE person.

Poker is hard and you have to have discipline and patients. That is how you win.

Look at the WSOP the shortest tournament they have is 3 days for 10 hours STRAIGHT.

You telling me sitting for 10 hours straight trying to not make a mistake is easy?


These online poker pros sit on the computer and stair at multiple screens, like 4+ tables at once. They sit there for hours n hours grinding. Its not easy

[dinamix]

I'm all in
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[deep87]

you mean your "awww eeen"

skip to 0:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9fyOFefirQ

[Nlkko]

Poker is not as much a game of chance as it is a game of skill and knowledge. It's far from your average gambling game.

It's a huge business and the government obviously want their cut. They're doing it the wrong way though. Millions of people are affected by this. And there are plenty will have to declare bankruptcy if those money just disappear (it's currently frozen). It's not funny at all.

Lazy? Nah. They're not doing anybody's harm and they have to work for their money--you don't just sit at the table and money rains down your pocket everyday thanks to your "luck".

[InvisibleSoul]

Woah! Looks like Party Poker and Golden Palace aren't affected. Lucky for them.
They're not "lucky"... it's because they pulled out of the US market back in 2006 when the US made it illegal for banks to transfer money to and from gambling sites.

The three that got shut down did not pull out of the US, and instead used creative methods to transfer money for players.

In the short term, your results in poker come down to luck, but in the long run it comes down to skill.

[taylor192]

I know for every winner there is a shitload of a losers but to say that it's a soley a game of only luck like buddy did is retarded. If you keep making +EV plays overtime you will win. That doesn't mean you arern't going to have losing sessions but over time you'll come up ahead.

I personally know a few people who have made a healthy living at poker over the past 6-7 years and continue to do so. These guys even pay taxes on their winnings, have gotten mortgages and what not. I'm not talking about the guys on TV with millions of dollars, I'm talking about online grinders who make a living off other peoples mistakes.
I won't say its only luck, yet its mostly luck. Even with a ton of skill you can still get hand after hand of crappy cards and run out of money fast.

Over time most come out behind and only a handful come out ahead. I have a few friends that play in tourneys, and they always bag about how much they have won - yet never mention how much they have lost along the way. I compare this to buying lottery tickets. I can tell you everytime I've won a good prize with lottery tickets, yet I've probably wasted $1000s over the years on lottery tickets. I still spent $10 on Lotto Max this Fri... :) and didn't win :p

[quasi]

I won't say its only luck, yet its mostly luck. Even with a ton of skill you can still get hand after hand of crappy cards and run out of money fast.

Over time most come out behind and only a handful come out ahead. I have a few friends that play in tourneys, and they always bag about how much they have won - yet never mention how much they have lost along the way. I compare this to buying lottery tickets. I can tell you everytime I've won a good prize with lottery tickets, yet I've probably wasted $1000s over the years on lottery tickets. I still spent $10 on Lotto Max this Fri... :) and didn't win :p

The guys who actually play for a living and win keep track of both wins and losses so they really know if their winning or losing. Guys like your friends sound like degenerates.

Edit: I should add I'm just a casual player, not pro and don't play for a living. I could tell you everyday in the last year I've played poker, how much I bought in for and what I cashed out or lost. I could also tell you if I was playing a cash game or a tournament, where I was playing and how long I played for.

[Blinky]

I won't say its only luck, yet its mostly luck. Even with a ton of skill you can still get hand after hand of crappy cards and run out of money fast.

Over time most come out behind and only a handful come out ahead. I have a few friends that play in tourneys, and they always bag about how much they have won - yet never mention how much they have lost along the way. I compare this to buying lottery tickets. I can tell you everytime I've won a good prize with lottery tickets, yet I've probably wasted $1000s over the years on lottery tickets. I still spent $10 on Lotto Max this Fri... :) and didn't win :p

Most of the time I find your posts well-supported with reason, even if I don't agree with them. However, the bolded part above shows me without a doubt that, on this topic, you are speaking from a position of complete ignorance.

[InvisibleSoul]

Most of the time I find your posts well-supported with reason, even if I don't agree with them. However, the bolded part above shows me without a doubt that, on this topic, you are speaking from a position of complete ignorance.
Yeah, I would have to agree. Those that play poker for a living (usually those with skill) will never run out of money, because they know how to manage their bankroll. They will never play in stakes high enough that any short term run of bad luck will wipe them out.

I mean, there have definitely been cases where someone runs extremely cold for a fairly long period of time and loses way more often than the odds would dictate, but it can't go on forever. Eventually their luck will turn and they'll run hot.

[!LittleDragon]

I never got into poker BECAUSE there's skill involved. I don't see it as a game of chance, it's not gambling to me if you can influence the outcome.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

if poker is all luck. then so is trading the markets (but obviously it is not)

you can reduce your risk, and pick which opponents to play, among other many things.

luck is flipping a coin.

[SuperSlowSS]

In Canada, we aren't the United States last time I checked.

thats not how domain names works... try going to the AbsolutePoker.com.

[quasi]

thats not how domain names works... try going to the AbsolutePoker.com.

It had nothing to do with domain names. They stopped all american players from being able to cash out and play on the sites that got hit by the FBI. We're in Canada and wern't effected the same way. The article even said USA.

[dachinesedude]

i wouldnt call a guy winning a pot by bluffing "luck"

i believe its a psychological game, you're trying to read each other and making the right bets make a HUUUGE difference in the outcome

[ek1]

its a game of luck played skillfully

[SkinnyPupp]

The domains aren't working, but the actual rooms are there. I just did a withdrawal request for the money I had in there, hope it goes through OK...

[SuperSlowSS]

It had nothing to do with domain names. They stopped all american players from being able to cash out and play on the sites that got hit by the FBI. We're in Canada and wern't effected the same way. The article even said USA.


Yes it is for usa players only. But fbi did seize domain names: "The Federal Bureau of Investigation also seized five Internet domain names used".

And the reason why those sites were up at the time was because domain propagation delay and caching on the users' computers. Not because we are in canada. Try going to those websites now.

[InvisibleSoul]

PokerStars is now www.pokerstars.eu

[SkinnyPupp]

Others:

http://www.fulltiltpoker.co.uk/

http://www.absolutepoker.eu/

[TRDood]

in america its only legal on reserves, atlantic city, vegas (that im certain about)

edit: i stand corrected Mississippi allows it in Tunica and Riverboat casinos etc and not all states allow reserves to set up gambling

What about casinos in Washington state?

[SkinnyPupp]

What about casinos in Washington state?
Those are on reserves