[Jackygor]

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/04/hksimagewmark.jpg

[dangonay]

Does this mean an end to those stupid HKS super sequential BOV's? :)

[1exotic]

Does this mean an end to those stupid HKS super sequential BOV's? :)

:failed:

[Timpo]

That sucks...

Thank god it wasn't VeilSide USA.

[- kT]

anddddd hello, getting raped with even more shipping
also hello to even harder to find hks parts :(

[Cman333]

It's crazy how bad it is in the States. I was in Cali for a couple months not very long ago and wow are the malls dead.

Seems like every restaurant had a happy hour during normal dining hours.

Property was insanely cheap. Nice houses were like <$400K


Not looking so good for retail down there :(

[dangonay]

My my, look at all the fails I got.

Now I know who on RS has absolutely no idea how turbocharged engines operate.

[PK-EK]

Time to start using T1R parts!
:troll:

[xpl0sive]

My my, look at all the fails I got.

Now I know who on RS has absolutely no idea how turbocharged engines operate.


it's not about how turbocharged engines operate more about how it's designed from the factory. most of today's turbocharged cars are designed with recirculated bypass valves, in which case if a BOV is used instead, causes a rich condition when the throttle is released. if a car is designed with having BOV in mind from the beginning, there is no problem with using a BOV. the ECU removes fuel when the throttle is released, and no rich condition occurs. so your fails are well deserved mr. dangonay

[Alphamale]

I don't think you really need to explain that to dangonay...lol.

[dangonay]

it's not about how turbocharged engines operate more about how it's designed from the factory. most of today's turbocharged cars are designed with recirculated bypass valves, in which case if a BOV is used instead, causes a rich condition when the throttle is released. if a car is designed with having BOV in mind from the beginning, there is no problem with using a BOV. the ECU removes fuel when the throttle is released, and no rich condition occurs. so your fails are well deserved mr. dangonay

There's no such thing as an engine designed to use a BOV. The physics don't add up. The reason factory cars use bypass valves is because they are technically superior to a BOV.

Nice try, come back when you've learned a bit more about engineering.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[monkeywrench]

Damnit, better get my exhaust from the US vendors before they sell out the stock

[StylinRed]

It's crazy how bad it is in the States. I was in Cali for a couple months not very long ago and wow are the malls dead.

Seems like every restaurant had a happy hour during normal dining hours.

Property was insanely cheap. Nice houses were like <$400K


Not looking so good for retail down there :(



Most people are in denial in the states they think things aren't too bad or will soon start moving towards the better etc etc etc


but economists around the world have been saying Americas dead for quite sometime

and corporations have been getting out, shifting Headquarters, workforces, patents, managers are being sent to operate out of Tax Havens (Ireland, Canada to a lesser degree), etc

So the US doesn't make anything nor do they manage anything anymore and the dollar is going to shits because of it... so what's left? how can they support a consumption lifestyle?

[jing]

What about recirculated bov's? :troll:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[dangonay]

Now that I'm off mobile, I can post a more detailed response.

The problem with BOV's aren't due to certain engines running rich (MAF sensor based engines). Anyone can change the software of an ECU to reduce fuel when the BOV vents. It's a non-issue from the standpoint of the engineers who designed and built your engine. The problem with BOV's is one of waste.

When your engine is under boost and you close the throttle (say to shift) the pressure behind the throttle builds up rapidly and needs to be released. It can cause the compressor of the turbo to "stall" or in extreme cases can even cause turbo damage. To release this pressure you can use a BOV (vents this air to atmosphere) or a BPV (recirculates this air to the turbocharger inlet).

All that pressurized air in your intake represents energy. Energy that was recovered from the exhaust gases (dumped into the turbine side of your turbo) and used to develop boost (on the compressor side). When you use a BOV you are taking all that energy and venting it to atmosphere where it's lost forever. When you use a BPV to recirculate that compressed air back to the turbocharger inlet, you are recovering some of the energy used to compress this air in the first place. When you open the throttle back up, the turbo will have less work to do since all that previously compressed air wasn't vented to atmosphere.

In essence, a BOV trades energy for noise. Throwing away boost and reducing turbocharger response in exchange for a "cool sound".


Way back when I used to chip VW's and Audis I used data acquisition to monitor the pressure through the turbocharger system via multiple sensors (turbo inlet & outlet, intercooler inlet & outlet, before & after throttle body and intake manifold). I then did runs using BPV's and BOV's to compare. The result (which can be proven on paper, but is easier to see on a graph) is that the turbocharger could "recover" and be back developing maximum boost quicker with a BPV than a BOV. Simple physics - if you vent all your boost, the turbocharger is obviously going to have to do more work to get it back.

I used to argue with people all the time (online and with customers) trying to explain this. I've even shown my data to customers to prove why they should be using a BPV. In the end, many still picked a BOV because they wanted the sound more than performance. It was one of the many reasons I got out of tuning - having customers come to you to get their car worked on, and then not taking your advice. Why ask me in the first place if you're not going to listen anyway.
/rant


That said, there are specific circumstances where a BOV may be necessary. 99.9% of the population don't have engines that fit into this category, so if I make a blanket statement that BOV's are stupid than I'm basically right.

[!LittleDragon]

I'm sure most people who have a BOV already know about that and don't give a crap about it.. All they want is the sound... same reason I bought one a decade ago.

[cococly]

When your engine is under boost and you close the throttle (say to shift) the pressure behind the throttle builds up rapidly and needs to be released. It can cause the compressor of the turbo to "stall" or in extreme cases can even cause turbo damage. To release this pressure you can use a BOV (vents this air to atmosphere) or a BPV (recirculates this air to the turbocharger inlet).



Modern cars with OEM turbocharged engines are all using BPVs? (135i,GTR,WRXSTI,EVO) I wana learn more :D

[!Aznboi128]

I'm sure most people who have a BOV already know about that and don't give a crap about it.. All they want is the sound... same reason I bought one a decade ago.
I bought one for my accord ... didn't make a sound i think I was missing the turbo :troll:

[HondaGuy]

Definitely sad that HKS had to annouce that. With the economy so poorly in US and now with Japan's struggle, not many customers are buying or even spending money into carparts/ and into the carscene...

Thus, resulting in less interests, less tuners, struggling shops (product lines), and eventually carshows.

PPL are unaware that carscene is like a circle, once the chain breaks a little, it'll affect the rest.

Side note, think I'll keep my HKS fillter, and twin ignition box longer...

[!LittleDragon]

I was actually in SoCal and NorCal last week and all the modified cars of yesteryear are gone. When I asked my cousin about it, he said they're long gone. Cops shut down pretty much all the shops that were doing engine mods. All you see now is the odd car with big wheels

[flagella]

like this?

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m280/ashley_becerra/BigWheels.jpg

[optiblue]

if you think Richmond is bad, in cali they issue tickets and vehicle inspection for an aftermarket exhaust! But yeah, the economies worldwide are doing poorly right now. I know of many friends and relatives who got laid off on a Monday with a one hour notice to pack up your office and leave. The car modding scene is pretty much gone as us kids of that generation have grown up and are currently not into modding or are struggling in the economy. Forget about the kids in school now, they're plenty happy riding public transit and going green. The extreme rich will mostly drive exotics or luxury branded cars. There's just not many people left out there who have enough interest in cars and allow their modding hobby to consume all their finances. I for one am still into modifying, but can't justify spending that extra bling for an expensive branded product where there are cheaper options available. Just wait till 2012, everything will change with the introduction of Electric Vehicles. Freeing ourselves from the oil industry and allowing hydro to takeover will shift the world economy once again perhaps for the better. I hate to say it, but even I'm dancing with the idea of trading in the EVO for an EV. Maybe HKS can modify EV's to simulate exhaust and BOV noises lol
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Datsun]

On top of the economy, it might have something to do with people these days building their cars from the ground up using nothing but ebay/china parts.


brb, buying replicas of everything from companies that do zero r&d and rip off designs because I dont understand the concept of saving

brb, genuine parts are for DICKHEADS

[marksport]

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m280/ashley_becerra/BigWheels.jpg


Gas guzzlers?

[lowda9]

It's crazy how bad it is in the States. I was in Cali for a couple months not very long ago and wow are the malls dead.

Seems like every restaurant had a happy hour during normal dining hours.

Property was insanely cheap. Nice houses were like <$400K


Not looking so good for retail down there :(

Its not bad, its pretty normal. Houses cost 300k-600k for a normal sized house around 1800 sq ft thats pretty normal. Whats bad is 1million dollars here in vancouver for a generic vancouver special.

Whats wrong with happy hour? People in the states like to eat.

[- kT]

Modern cars with OEM turbocharged engines are all using BPVs? (135i,GTR,WRXSTI,EVO) I wana learn more :D

pretty much

also, this thread is now the "explanation of how blow off valve's work" thread

[Qmx323]

EHHHHHTCH

KAAAAYYYY

ESSSSSS

[falcon]

There's no such thing as an engine designed to use a BOV. The physics don't add up. The reason factory cars use bypass valves is because they are technically superior to a BOV.

Nice try, come back when you've learned a bit more about engineering.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

You're a moron. The HKS SSQV is a wicked BOV because it does not leak air at idle due to the design (no springs, and the more you boost, the tighter the seal gets). Any turbo car I've ever built runs on a MAP sensor so if you dump to atmosphere the car doesn't even notice because it measures pressure at the manifold.

You can buy re-circ kits for the HKS SSQV if you run a MAF or want to be even more stealth.

That being said, I absolutely HATE the noise and my SSQV has the chrome thing pulled out and it's now almost invisible for sound. I am also running it on a Rotrex supercharger and re-circ or VTA does not matter because it's belt driven.

[Gumby]

:Popcorn

[iamed]

Definitely sad that HKS had to annouce that. With the economy so poorly in US and now with Japan's struggle, not many customers are buying or even spending money into carparts/ and into the carscene...

Thus, resulting in less interests, less tuners, struggling shops (product lines), and eventually carshows.

PPL are unaware that carscene is like a circle, once the chain breaks a little, it'll affect the rest.

Side note, think I'll keep my HKS fillter, and twin ignition box longer...

It is getting alot harder for japanese companies to stay profitable in markets like the US considering the very weak US dollar. Even with stable demand for their products, the USD has steadily dropped over 20% for the last 2 years with no sign of recovery anytime in the near future.

[BaoTurbo]

No its not Americans like to eat. It's the market. If you look at the bigger picture, food is the most dominant market where everyone needs to spend money on. If you look at it locally, there are so many shops opening in Vancouver just to cater to Food. Whether its Coffee Shops, Bubble tea shops, Cafes, or even restaurants.

As I was growing up, now well through my teen, I can see the biggest jump in the Coffee market and the Bubble market, as well as the Cafe market. Nice cafe's charge quite a lot, when you can get the same food at a different place, like maybe a food court for cheaper. Quality could be a factor, also personal experience could be another, but material is the same and the type of food. Also bubble tea is another booming market as I can see. Before there weren't a lot of places serving bubble tea, but now it seems that everyone has jumped the the bubble tea wagon and started serving it anywhere in a variety of restaurants. Even when it doesn't really correlate like japanese ramen and bubble tea. I guess someone can say the target market has shifted to a new generation and to a more specific target which is the X generation, the generation after the Baby Boomers. That's just the simplistic view I have on the market nowadays but certainly it goes beyond my own understanding and anyone could enlighten us further :)

[Onassis]

Well I guess it's time to be like Hector and overnight parts in from Japan.

[Death2Theft]

How exactly is canada ANY kind of tax haven? Short of AB being a slight 10% or so better than here?
Most people are in denial in the states they think things aren't too bad or will soon start moving towards the better etc etc etc


but economists around the world have been saying Americas dead for quite sometime

and corporations have been getting out, shifting Headquarters, workforces, patents, managers are being sent to operate out of Tax Havens (Ireland, Canada to a lesser degree), etc

So the US doesn't make anything nor do they manage anything anymore and the dollar is going to shits because of it... so what's left? how can they support a consumption lifestyle?

[KoreanHistoryCH]

Everyone's raking it in at Cafe Lu

http://facebook.com/CafeLu

http://cafelugirls.com

[dangonay]

You're a moron. The HKS SSQV is a wicked BOV because it does not leak air at idle due to the design (no springs, and the more you boost, the tighter the seal gets). Any turbo car I've ever built runs on a MAP sensor so if you dump to atmosphere the car doesn't even notice because it measures pressure at the manifold.

You can buy re-circ kits for the HKS SSQV if you run a MAF or want to be even more stealth.

That being said, I absolutely HATE the noise and my SSQV has the chrome thing pulled out and it's now almost invisible for sound. I am also running it on a Rotrex supercharger and re-circ or VTA does not matter because it's belt driven.

Mentioning MAF/MAP when talking about BOV's vs BPV's means you don't have a clue what you're talking about. It's not about running rich - it's about wasting energy dumping boosted air. Don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to get.

[Iceman_2K]

Because a lot of people only look at one side of things. If people who modded their cars were modding the engines to be run more efficiently and produce more power, it would be a different story. How many times do you hear stories about cars being boosted, only to find out that the lag is extremely large.

[StylinRed]

How exactly is canada ANY kind of tax haven? Short of AB being a slight 10% or so better than here?

It's not a Corporate tax haven in comparison to Ireland etc ("lesser degree") but its better than the USA according to 60Minutes and if Harper has his way its going to be heading in an even better direction for corporations

its was a story on how all managerial positions, IP, etc have been flocking to Ireland, etc and Canada was included as a place of growing interest/movement for US corporations but Ireland et. al still being the havens

[Midnitez]

:troll::troll:Now that I'm off mobile, I can post a more detailed response.

The problem with BOV's aren't due to certain engines running rich (MAF sensor based engines). Anyone can change the software of an ECU to reduce fuel when the BOV vents. It's a non-issue from the standpoint of the engineers who designed and built your engine. The problem with BOV's is one of waste.

When your engine is under boost and you close the throttle (say to shift) the pressure behind the throttle builds up rapidly and needs to be released. It can cause the compressor of the turbo to "stall" or in extreme cases can even cause turbo damage. To release this pressure you can use a BOV (vents this air to atmosphere) or a BPV (recirculates this air to the turbocharger inlet).

All that pressurized air in your intake represents energy. Energy that was recovered from the exhaust gases (dumped into the turbine side of your turbo) and used to develop boost (on the compressor side). When you use a BOV you are taking all that energy and venting it to atmosphere where it's lost forever. When you use a BPV to recirculate that compressed air back to the turbocharger inlet, you are recovering some of the energy used to compress this air in the first place. When you open the throttle back up, the turbo will have less work to do since all that previously compressed air wasn't vented to atmosphere.

In essence, a BOV trades energy for noise. Throwing away boost and reducing turbocharger response in exchange for a "cool sound".


Way back when I used to chip VW's and Audis I used data acquisition to monitor the pressure through the turbocharger system via multiple sensors (turbo inlet & outlet, intercooler inlet & outlet, before & after throttle body and intake manifold). I then did runs using BPV's and BOV's to compare. The result (which can be proven on paper, but is easier to see on a graph) is that the turbocharger could "recover" and be back developing maximum boost quicker with a BPV than a BOV. Simple physics - if you vent all your boost, the turbocharger is obviously going to have to do more work to get it back.

I used to argue with people all the time (online and with customers) trying to explain this. I've even shown my data to customers to prove why they should be using a BPV. In the end, many still picked a BOV because they wanted the sound more than performance. It was one of the many reasons I got out of tuning - having customers come to you to get their car worked on, and then not taking your advice. Why ask me in the first place if you're not going to listen anyway.
/rant


That said, there are specific circumstances where a BOV may be necessary. 99.9% of the population don't have engines that fit into this category, so if I make a blanket statement that BOV's are stupid than I'm basically right.

u mean TOO BAD RICERS! n SO SAD for ppl that appreciate HKS Performance....

:troll:

[- kT]

^ uhhh so only ricers use hks products?

@dangonay: that would make sense, if not for these little buggers:

http://www.hksusa.com/images_products/L_1275.jpg

(it's a recirculation kit)

[dangonay]

^ I'm fully aware there's a recirc kit for their BOV which turns it into ....wait for it..... a BPV. It would no longer be a BOV, now, would it?

Still doesn't change the fact that a BOV is stupid. HKS BOV is even worse since they actually designed it to be as loud as possible (they literally spent money and engineereing resources tuning it to make the sound it does, which is why most people buy them).

[Expresso]

^ uhhh so only ricers use hks products?

@dangonay: that would make sense, if not for these little buggers:

http://www.hksusa.com/images_products/L_1275.jpg

(it's a recirculation kit)

If you are buying the SSQ, why recirculate it? You might as well kept the stock piece, otherwise you spent $200+ on engine dress up.

[- kT]

because you still get some of the noise, just not as loud

so in saying that you either get the sound OR the function is incorrect. in the ssqv's case, you can get both

[bcrdukes]

If you are buying the SSQ, why recirculate it? You might as well kept the stock piece, otherwise you spent $200+ on engine dress up.

Remember how many times I failed AirCare because of my Blitz DD BOV?

My stock BPV was its saving grace. :D

because you still get some of the noise, just not as loud

so in saying that you either get the sound OR the function is incorrect. in the ssqv's case, you can get both

In other words, expensive ricer engine bay dress up. Studies have shown that factory BPVs are proven to have the quickest reaction times.

[Expresso]

because you still get some of the noise, just not as loud

so in saying that you either get the sound OR the function is incorrect. in the ssqv's case, you can get both

Do you run yours recirculated? Cause I have and it sounds pretty much like stock, but could be just my car and add on top its just a stock turbo. I still think there really is no point in buying it if you are going to recirculate it.

Not hating on you or anything, I still have my ARC BOV still sitting around lol.

[- kT]

Do you run yours recirculated? Cause I have and it sounds pretty much like stock, but could be just my car and add on top its just a stock turbo. I still think there really is no point in buying it if you are going to recirculate it.

Not hating on you or anything, I still have my ARC BOV still sitting around lol.

nope, i don't. i'll admit i'm a bit of a ricer :fullofwin: so i bought mine, blocked off the stock diverter valve and ran the ssqv

however my friend, who has the same car as me, has his running recirculated on a stock turbo. it sounds like an ssqv, without the squeak to it (imagine purple fin + a bit more of a woosh sound)

[SpuGen]

nope, i don't. i'll admit i'm a bit of a ricer :fullofwin: so i bought mine, blocked off the stock diverter valve and ran the ssqv

however my friend, who has the same car as me, has his running recirculated on a stock turbo. it sounds like an ssqv, without the squeak to it (imagine purple fin + a bit more of a woosh sound)

So... basically you came into this thread to tell people that you have an SSQV.
:speechless: