[Ferra]

What's everyone opinion on Hybrid vs Diesel?
I am getting a new car for long commute (50,000km+/yr)

Right now I am deciding between the Audi A3 TDI vs Lexus CT200H (or HS250H since the CT200h has a 3 months + wait)
It will be mostly highway driving. From the spec, the fuel economy is very similar between these cars (4.5L/100km highway)
I have never owned a hybrid or diesel car before....What's the advantages/disadvantages of each?

And any other recommendation? I basically need something with very good fuel economy, 30-40k price range. (Don't like prius, civic)

[Ferra]

Btw....anyone know the discount you can get on the A3 TDI?

The CT200h has ZERO discount....the HS250H I can get roughly $1500 off the $40850 MSRP

[dinamix]

Why bother trying to save money at the pumps of your going to spend 40k on a car?

You should look into a chevy cruise or a Crz
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[EvoFire]

Go get a used Golf TDI if you don't need the luxury. You save the depreciation from 50,000km+ every year on a new car.

[vitaminG]

i think what you mean to say is

Which of the aforementioned cars should I buy?

[Presto]

CT200h is nice, but it's a brand new, and there's gonna be kinks to work out. Price-wise, I think it's great. The cost w/ touring package is what I paid for my Prius in 2005.

[sdubfid]

Btw....anyone know the discount you can get on the A3 TDI?

The CT200h has ZERO discount....the HS250H I can get roughly $1500 off the $40850 MSRP

I wouldn't pay attention to a discount, it's all in your head. Get what works for you. They could say msrp $50000 with $10000 discount or $41000 with $1000 discount. In the end you still pay the same but the $10000 discount sounds more attractive.

It's like the maple ridge chrysler ads "Buy this $50000 truck and we will throw in a tv that is worth $300".

I'm not familar with the a3 tdi but I know the newer vw diesels are commonrail. You can add lots of power easily if you are into modding at all. Also 99-03 alh tdis are the some of the best for economy and simplicity.

But like dinamix said. You could buy a new car for $20000 less and that will pay for a lot of fuel. Less depreciation etc etc.

You could get a 92 civic vx for a few thousand that will destroy any "hybrid" at the pumps and maintenance costs.

[rawr]

Why even bother worrying about mileage when you're considering a 30-40k car? Buy a beater for 5k and have 25k leftover for gas.
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[s300ae]

Maybe the op does not want a beater... If he can spend 40k on a DD, maybe he wants his daily driver comfortable, stress and maintenance free. Price of gas doesn't seem to be an issues it's how often he'll need to stop an fuel up.
The CT Is basically a luxury prius. I'd choose the A3 TDI. In case you do decide to chip it, that machine will haul ass!
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[Funnel]

Not everyone can be careless about quality of the ride, especially when you are doing 50k km a year.

[Leopold Stotch]

i'd go with the diesel, better torque.

[roastpuff]

i'd go with the diesel, better torque.

x2. For highway use you're going to love the diesel torque for passing more than the hybrid. Hybrids don't do well on highways (full hybrids, at any rate) because of their lower power engine.

I also think the A3 is the better car overall. If you don't need as much luxury go with a Golf TDI, better interior (it was updated recently) and cheaper.

[CorneringArtist]

I think some hybrids get lower highway gas mileage than city due to that lack of torque. I agree with the diesels as well, the A3 is pretty much a Golf, so the TDI Golf would work if OP doesn't need the luxury features of an Audi.

[k3mps]

diesel for highway.
hybrid for city.
both cost 25-30k base.
why dont you buy a corolla.
its cheaper.

based on your 50k ann avg, lets do some math.
golf tdi does (on paper) 973km per tank. 55l tank.
corolla does (on paper) 735km per tank. 50l tank.

now, do 50k km, divided by how many km per tank, times how much it cost to fill each tank.
(i used 1.33 for diesel, 1.40 for gas).

golf: (50000/973) x $73 per tank = $3 751 per year on diesel
corolla: (50000/735) x $70 per tank = $4 761 on gas per year.

$4 761 - $3 751 = $965 youre saving each year if you buy a golf.
however, the difference in the cost of the cars is about $10 000 give or take.
so in theory it would take you 10 years of driving 50k per year for the golf to pay itself. i used the posted avg of both cars.

yes i took the time to do the math for you.

[!LittleDragon]

I dunno why people think hybrids have bad hwy mileage. I had to drive my family down to San Francisco for a wedding. I reserved a full size sedan from Hertz for the comfort so I was a bit pissed when I got there and they gave me a Prius. When I got to San Francisco on about $60 worth of gas with 4 adults and a trunk full of luggage, I wasn't so pissed anymore.

[dangonay]

^ It's not that hybrids have bad highway mileage, it's just that they don't have any advantage over a regular vehicle on the highway. No stop & go driving means no braking energy to recover which means you're basically driving a gas powered economy car on the highway.

If the OP is doing a long highway commute, then a hybrid offers no advantages over a normal gasoline powered car. This is why a diesel would be better for the OP's needs, if he's sticking to a choice between these two vehicles.

[!LittleDragon]

I think 1500kms on $60 worth of gas is a huge advantage over normal cars. I just did the same drive in a Nissan Sentra and it took more than $160. Mind you, gas prices are higher now but not 2.5x higher than it was back in September.

[frozen]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2h6r62x.png

[Timpo]

CT200h

JDM yo!

[k3mps]

I think 1500kms on $60 worth of gas is a huge advantage over normal cars.

just curious, what car can do 1500 km on $60 bucks of gas

[Timpo]

just curious, what car can do 1500 km on $60 bucks of gas

$60 gas = approx 46L of gas (at $1.30/L in Victoria)

1500km/46L = 32.6km/L (approx 3.07L/100km)

Prius can do 3.7L/100km...so if you do "Prius Hacking"(go on google if you don't know what it is) then I guess you can easily achieve that number.

[k3mps]

that's only possible in optimal weather though, am i right?
i recall my friends talking about how one of the math teachers from their school did "some hack" to his prius, and beat his record of 1300km in "optimal weather"

[!LittleDragon]

just curious, what car can do 1500 km on $60 bucks of gas

Well, according to my earlier post... a rental Prius from Hertz

[ilvtofu]

IMO it has to be diesel, more fun than hybrid and WAAAAYYY more consistent. I was driving around in a GL320 for a while and damn that thing is good on gas, let of the brake and it just flies off the line too, I avg'd about 12-13L/100km in the city in that 5500lb car and was thoroughly impressed.

TBH I like both and had a great time driving a couple days in the camry hybrid which I got around 6L/100km in, it was fun getting the mileage but the car overall was such a boat and steering/brake feel was pretty poor, also turn a little faster than normal and the car is screeching tires and way out of its comfort zone

When you are talking lower end though I don't think the price usually justifies it for either hybrid or diesel IMO.

The A3 is pretty dated IMO and would never consider it, have not driven the CT personally but I expect it to be a little dull especially side by side with the A3, there is a learning curve for driving Hybrid Synergy Drive but when you have a genuine interest in learning, it's actually very enjoyable. Base price is attractive but it gets up there.

[Timpo]

^ what's the price of diesel though? last time I remember it was like 10% more than gasoline.

[roastpuff]

^ what's the price of diesel though? last time I remember it was like 10% more than gasoline.
Nope. I would say diesel is about on par with regular right now.

[Leopold Stotch]

diesel for highway.
hybrid for city.
both cost 25-30k base.
why dont you buy a corolla.
its cheaper.

based on your 50k ann avg, lets do some math.
golf tdi does (on paper) 973km per tank. 55l tank.
corolla does (on paper) 735km per tank. 50l tank.

now, do 50k km, divided by how many km per tank, times how much it cost to fill each tank.
(i used 1.33 for diesel, 1.40 for gas).

golf: (50000/973) x $73 per tank = $3 751 per year on diesel
corolla: (50000/735) x $70 per tank = $4 761 on gas per year.

$4 761 - $3 751 = $965 youre saving each year if you buy a golf.
however, the difference in the cost of the cars is about $10 000 give or take.
so in theory it would take you 10 years of driving 50k per year for the golf to pay itself. i used the posted avg of both cars.

yes i took the time to do the math for you.

you have to factor in the fact that OP could have gotten a cheaper car, but does want to spend more money for comfort and luxury. i mean a camry is the same as a es350 right?

[Timpo]

diesel for highway.
hybrid for city.
both cost 25-30k base.
why dont you buy a corolla.
its cheaper.

based on your 50k ann avg, lets do some math.
golf tdi does (on paper) 973km per tank. 55l tank.
corolla does (on paper) 735km per tank. 50l tank.

now, do 50k km, divided by how many km per tank, times how much it cost to fill each tank.
(i used 1.33 for diesel, 1.40 for gas).

golf: (50000/973) x $73 per tank = $3 751 per year on diesel
corolla: (50000/735) x $70 per tank = $4 761 on gas per year.

$4 761 - $3 751 = $965 youre saving each year if you buy a golf.
however, the difference in the cost of the cars is about $10 000 give or take.
so in theory it would take you 10 years of driving 50k per year for the golf to pay itself. i used the posted avg of both cars.

yes i took the time to do the math for you.you forgot to put insurance/maintenance cost too... Corolla would be cheaper to insure/maintain

if that's the case it would take well over 10 years to pay off...

also, what's the resale value? Toyota or VW?

[k3mps]

i only calculated in the cost of gas.
i thought he would only be interested in that haha.

[Timpo]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2h6r62x.png
I'm a bit confused by this...the MSRP of CT200h is $30,950...

what can you buy for $10,950? even the cheapest Nissan Versa would cost you $12,898.

[k3mps]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2h6r62x.png

lol timpo's right
is you're talking 40k, i think you're thinking of the hs.

[lfyshi]

I'm a bit confused by this...the MSRP of CT200h is $30,950...

what can you buy for $10,950? even the cheapest Nissan Versa would cost you $12,898.

The base CT has nothing you called luxury. It has no heated seats, no sunroof, 6-speaker, manual seats, no HID, cheaper headlights, boring 16" wheels.

The Package B @ MSRP $37,XXX would be a good choice.

[too_slow]

Having driven a 3G Prius extensively from Kelowna to Trail and back, I would probably lean towards a TDI. The Prius is fairly quiet and economical, WHEN YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO DRIVE UP A HWY WITH HILLS. Trying to pass lorries on a single lane hwy (Hwy33) is scary as S*IT with this thing, because it absolutely lacks power. BTW, the engine is fairly harsh when you're going pedal to the metal.

I have test driven the CT, and the noise insulation is definitely better, but it can only do so much once you're doing full throttle up a slope. Try taking one for a test drive at Port Moody Lexus, and go up one of the hilly roads (i.e. Herritage Mtn, Westwood Plateau, or even up SFU) to give you an idea to see if the performance is acceptable. A TDI will not have the same issues with a fully loaded car climbing up a hill.

[too_slow]

BTW, the best deal I can find on the CT was $300 off and no doc fees at Regency Lexus.
I haven't bothered with a A3 TDI, because a Golf TDI has a newer chassis and has better interior appointments and sound insulation(!). It also has a much better NAV (if you buy a RNS510 used.. the Audi MMI thing is a joke on the A3).

The Golf TDI Highline is $4k cheaper and comes with real leather (Audi uses very disgraceful looking leatherette. The CT's 'Nu..smth' Leatherette is much much better)

[too_slow]

BTW, you can get a fully loaded Prius V for the price of a base CT. The Prius has a panaromic sunroof with a solar panel that powers up the interior fans (I think this was first introduced on the A8's ?

It also has every single tech feature you can dream of. The only thing that it lacks is a giant Lexus badge.

[k3mps]

hey too_slow, hows the vdub reliability? i see you own quite a few.
i wanna get a golf tdi, but many of my friends own vw's from all years, and they have had all kinds of problems

[Presto]

The Prius is fairly quiet and economical, WHEN YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO DRIVE UP A HWY WITH HILLS. Trying to pass lorries on a single lane hwy (Hwy33) is scary as S*IT with this thing, because it absolutely lacks power. BTW, the engine is fairly harsh when you're going pedal to the metal

You can get the power you need, as long as you have a decent state of charge in the battery. For typical driving, you'll rarely run into to red zone. Extended hill climbs will deplete the battery. You'll be running on all internal combustion once that happens. Plus, some of those horses will be diverted to sustaining/charging the battery.

The Coquilhalla definitely eats up the battery on those long, steep sections, but I can usually maintain 100km/h after the charge is used up. The key to (extended) hill climbing the Prius is understanding the way the system works, and planning ahead. As long as you have some charge, that will give you the extra torque you need to pass slow semis.

[oldsnail]

just curious, what car can do 1500 km on $60 bucks of gas

i often hit 1000 kms a tank when i had my 00 honda insight.. only 5spd hybrid yo.. i usually fill $30 or so baak then

[k3mps]

i often hit 1000 kms a tank when i had my 00 honda insight.. only 5spd hybrid yo.. i usually fill $30 or so baak then

ya the old insight was amazing on gas.
but i was thinking of new cars (2011/2012 models)

[too_slow]

hey too_slow, hows the vdub reliability? i see you own quite a few.
i wanna get a golf tdi, but many of my friends own vw's from all years, and they have had all kinds of problems

My experience with VW has been very positive. I have never been stranded. The only 'issue' I had was with a broken thermostat on the 16V (this car was family owned since brand new, everything else was 2nd hand.)

Mind you, the VW's that I've owned are pretty 'simple' in terms of electronics. Most of the horror stories are with newer Passats and Tourags, so really YMMV.

TDi's are fairly robust. However, there is a risk that if you use subpar diesel, your HPFP (hey, it's not only a problem with bmws!) will explode and your entire fuel system will need to be replaced.

Presto: You can only plan your route so much if you drive on Hwy 33 (think Big White, but even further.) The entire drive is single-lane uphill for the most part.

[k3mps]

thank's for your reply, i appreciate it :D