[akalic]

TransLink is losing as much as $15 million a year to lost, stolen and resold U-Passes, prompting officials to threaten to cancel the student program if the problem persists.

In a bid to eliminate the online resale of the transit passes, TransLink has asked Craigslist to help crack down on those posting U-Pass resale ads, but has yet to receive any cooperation from the classifieds website.

TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said the Transit Police sent a letter to Craigslist two weeks ago asking for help in either not allowing U-Pass resale ads or allowing TransLink to flag them so they can be removed from the site.

Craigslist hasn’t yet responded, Hardie said, and as of Wednesday there were 29 transit passes for sale or wanted on the website — up from just two a few weeks ago.

“We’re doing our best but we could use more help from the schools, the student associations and Craigslist,” Hardie said.

About 80,000 U-Passes were provided to students this year at the University of B.C., Emily Carr University, Simon Fraser University, Capilano University, Langara College and Vancouver Community College at a discounted rate of about $30 per month.

The passes, which are non-transferable, can be used throughout the region on buses, SkyTrain and SeaBus. Regular transit users pay $151 for a similar multi-zone monthly pass.

With the U-Pass program set to expand this fall to Douglas College, Kwantlen Polytechnic University and BCIT, the potential loss could rise to $25 million, Hardie estimates.

And the rising losses, he warned, could put the program in jeopardy because if it’s not sustainable, TransLink will consider shutting it down.

TransLink estimates it loses between $7.8 million and $15 million every year from lost, misplaced, stolen or resold U-Passes. In an average year, about 11 per cent of U-Passes are lost, either by students or in the mail, and are replaced. If those passes were used for three-zone travel, the value equates to $9 million a year.

At the same time, about five per cent of students who register for school and receive a U-Pass drop out and do not return the passes, which are potentially worth a total of about $6 million. Another $2.4 million is lost as two per cent of U-Passes sent to schools for distribution are unaccounted for, Hardie said.

The passes are supposed to be used in conjunction with student cards but this isn’t always done.

Transit Police Staff Sgt. Ken Schinkel said those caught with a legitimate card belonging to someone else will be charged $173 for improper use of a fare as well as another $173 for not having a fare.

“It’s not uncommon [for fines to be laid] and it’s not just with a U-Pass,” he said. “Sometimes it’s a legitimate U-Pass that a student doesn’t require any more so they try to make a little money off it or some manufacture them on a computer.”

Those caught could also be charged with fraud although no one has been charged lately with the offence, but investigations are ongoing.

Meanwhile, TransLink is setting up an advisory group with the universities and student associations to monitor U-Passes. A meeting is scheduled next week to also discuss the new Compass Card, a universal electronic fare card that will replace all the transit passes and will allow TransLink to automatically shut down a U-Pass it suspects is being misused.

Gordon Price, director of the City Program at SFU, said TransLink will always likely see some fare cheating on the system. But he noted students themselves have a stake in maintaining the integrity of the U-Pass because they’re getting a good deal.

Hardie said TransLink will also continue to pressure Craigslist for help.

Craigslist didn’t respond Wednesday to an emailed interview request from The Vancouver Sun.

ksinoski@vancouversun.com

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:



http://www.vancouversun.com/TransLink+threatens+cancel+Pass/4840844/story.html

[asahai69]

lol. theyre acting as if their not turning a profit. they just wana crack down on this to make more. they just want the money from people buying u-passes who arent going to school

[StylinRed]

how about forcing schools to make a U-Pass Student ID (everyones forced to pay a $120+ semester student id; better not lose it either :D)

cuts their problem and raises costs to students

everyone in the govt is happy ;)

[PiuYi]

fucking translink makes it sound like they're actually losing money on the program, that's complete bullshit

they're stating POTENTIALLY lost revenue from misuse, assuming that if the users of fraudulent U-passes can't get them they will buy $151 translink passes, but would obviously never happen

U-pass system is such a money maker for translink they'd never dare shut it down

[misteranswer]

how about forcing schools to make a U-Pass Student ID (everyones forced to pay a $120+ semester student id; better not lose it either :D)

cuts their problem and raises costs to students

everyone in the govt is happy ;)

How does this get rid of the problem? The upass already has a picture.

[StylinRed]

does it? then how do ppl misuse it? (ive never used one/know what htey look like) ;)

i thought they were just a stack of transit passes

[hk20000]

^ You know when they say all Asians look alike they mean "I can't fucking tell this picture from these 50 Chinese guys on my bus right now"?

[TheKingdom2000]

With the U-Pass you just flash it at the bus driver and steam roll your way on the bus. When it's busy they don't even look at you and you just hop on.

It only gets a little sketchy when it's not busy, but you just act like you own the shit, flash the "fake" U-pass and move quickly.

[Walperstyle]

I've always paid. its a good service for people in Vancouver, being driving in Van is worth your life now days.

[Jayboogz]

Fuck transit man. I've been paying for it since they came out with it and I havent been able to get a refund ever since. I live about an hour and 15mins from langara if I take the bus. But if I drive it takes about 20mins. I am fortunate enuf to have a car to use and taking transit just isn't logical for me if I have an 830 class that means I gotta be out the door by 7 if I wanna be on time. It doesn't make anyfucking sense the refund requirements are if you are taking night courses or if you take only one or two classes a week. Has anyone ever had luck with getting their refund?l
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[TheNewGirl]

I was at SFU the first year they had the Upass and I have to tell you, it was a life saver for me. That said, parking at SFU is insanely expensive and bus service up there is actually pretty good (if extremely crowded).

I don't know if it benefits all the other schools nearly as well (though I can see it working very well for Douglas too).

[OBD1]

Screw transit! I'd rather drive.

[DHP 1]

LOL as if they werent milking the system in the first place, translink blows.


convenient? i think not

[Mr.HappySilp]

They should have people checking tickets every morning at boardway during rush hour. I bet in an hour they can fine more than 100ppl easily.

[flagella]

fck translink

[K-Dub]

They should have people checking tickets every morning at boardway during rush hour. I bet in an hour they can fine more than 100ppl easily.
This. Just do it a couple times a week and they can get their revenue.

[G]

Translink need's to stop bitching and check more frequently.

[orange7]

driving >>> busing.

[AzNightmare]

my college U-Pass doesn't have a picture on it.
It's just a blue U-Pass that looks pretty much like a monthly pass.
My U-Passes are monthly though... I have to get a new one each month, $30/month
Prepaid already in my tuition fee.

They should keep bus 015 going to downtown. Ever since they re-routed it, it's been a nightmare.
I hate taking the skytrain cause it's so packed, and I can't even sit and take a nap.

[drunkrussian]

so much bitching in this thread about translink, yet nothing about the greedy people who make a couple of bucks by selling it and risk sabotaging everyone, rather than just opting out of the program? Yes, Translink's goal is to make money, what's your point? The rules are the rules - if you dont like it, opt out.

And as for this being an empty threat, I disagree with that - they came close to pulling this program (at least at SFU) several times, but were overturned only by student voting. If they pull the program, most of the people who had UPASSes will choose to still take transit and be forced to pay 3 times the amount per month (a two zone pass is $110, a three zone UPASS is $30)...they will recoupe the profits easily from those who choose to not take transit any longer because of this.

If i was still in university and eligable for a UPASS, I sure would be pissed if a few people breaking the rules fucked it up for the rest of us.

[CP.AR]

how about this translink: let students omit themselves from the u-pass program. (currently only disabled or students that live outside the metro area can do that)

I could count how many times I use that little sheet of plastic.
1.5 hours by bus from richmond to UBC (if the 480 isn't full.. which it always is) - OH YEAH, THE SHITHEADS CUT THE LINE SHORT NOW TOO!
30 minutes by car.

you decide.

[2damaxmr2]

I would drive a nissan shitbox before i take the bus.

[maxxxboost]

how about this translink: let students omit themselves from the u-pass program. (currently only disabled or students that live outside the metro area can do that)

I could count how many times I use that little sheet of plastic.
1.5 hours by bus from richmond to UBC (if the 480 isn't full.. which it always is) - OH YEAH, THE SHITHEADS CUT THE LINE SHORT NOW TOO!
30 minutes by car.

you decide.

Translink is too greedy to do that. They want ALL the money!

[Shades]

They should have people checking tickets every morning at boardway during rush hour. I bet in an hour they can fine more than 100ppl easily.

When I was living in Germany they always had undercover people checking for passes/tickets. These "agents" who work in multiples of 2 or 3 would sit in different parts of the the train car pretending to be part of the public and declare themselves randomly. They check more frequent at the beginning of the month when people have to get a new pass.

These guys are smart. In Germany you bring a bicycle on the train you must pay for a more expensive ticket/pass and these agents look for these people to fine. It's very nerve racking sitting in a train without a ticket. My German friends always bought a ticket and never thought about jumping as fines are 40Euro(65 CAD). Public transit in Germany is the most convenient way to get around. There are over 17 trains where I lived and that excludes trams and buses.

[wstce92]

how about this translink: let students omit themselves from the u-pass program. (currently only disabled or students that live outside the metro area can do that)

I could count how many times I use that little sheet of plastic.
1.5 hours by bus from richmond to UBC (if the 480 isn't full.. which it always is) - OH YEAH, THE SHITHEADS CUT THE LINE SHORT NOW TOO!
30 minutes by car.

you decide.

This.

When I used to commute out to UBC. It would take at least 2 buses, if not 4, in order to get to school. The bus times seemed ok on paper, but in practice, since they were never on time, it would take on average an hour and a half to get to campus (the longest it took me 3 hours).
Driving took 40mins in medium traffic, 50-60 in traffic.

I understand that it really can't be helped since we lack the population density of other major cities. But things can still be done so much better. From bus drivers all the way to the execs, changes need to be made. And I know a lot of people get busted for not paying. But in all my years of using transit, I've never actually personally seen transit authority checking fares once.

[Mancini]

how about this translink: let students omit themselves from the u-pass program. (currently only disabled or students that live outside the metro area can do that)

I could count how many times I use that little sheet of plastic.
1.5 hours by bus from richmond to UBC (if the 480 isn't full.. which it always is) - OH YEAH, THE SHITHEADS CUT THE LINE SHORT NOW TOO!
30 minutes by car.

you decide.

Agreed. I don't like having to pay for a u-pass that isn't used. Translink is earning significant revenue because students are unable to opt-out.

[twitchyzero]

did translink cut service anywhere else recently? Few months ago the bus to the closest skytrain station from my house had its service cut...the bus now runs every hour after 8pm...fucking bullshit if you ask me considering I live IN the city proper and they wanna jack prices up.

[melloman]

Only reason their trying to screw us is to get MORE money. Maybe if Translink didn't do things like.. trying to build a Gondola to SFU ($70 million) or keep hounding for a new Pattullo bridge (Estimated $1 billion) they wouldn't be losing all their funds. Canada Line soaked up tons of money but also made them tons, I'm sure the new Portman will do the same. The only thing that I can figure is making them lose money is the Golden Ears bridge. But that's their own fault for having stupidly high rates, it's an optional bridge, you don't have to drive on it. -.-

[wingies]

They wouldnt have this problem if they let people omit from getting a upass at school. Going to school is costly enough, with all the school fees and other stupid shit we have to pay, we dont need to fork out more for upass. Give the option for those that drive and dont need it as a "credit" towards a cost for a parking pass and those that do not drive let them have a upass.

I would strongly assume that the only people who are selling their upasses are those who have been forced to pay and dont need it. I hope craigslist doesnt give in and tells them to handle their own shit lolol

[gars]

I just compare the UPass to other school fees that I never used - such as the Athletics and Recreations fee at UBC that is now $190 a year. And I knew a lot more people who used their UPass than people who benefited from the Athletics/Recreation Department.

And no, the Intramurals fee is separate - and it's only $21 a year.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ acutally I think in SFU if you lose your U-pass you can get another one free. So I could sell the one I get in the beginning of the semster and claim i lost mine and get another one for free. Win Win!

[CorneringArtist]

Only reason their trying to screw us is to get MORE money. Maybe if Translink didn't do things like.. trying to build a Gondola to SFU ($70 million) or keep hounding for a new Pattullo bridge (Estimated $1 billion) they wouldn't be losing all their funds. Canada Line soaked up tons of money but also made them tons, I'm sure the new Portman will do the same. The only thing that I can figure is making them lose money is the Golden Ears bridge. But that's their own fault for having stupidly high rates, it's an optional bridge, you don't have to drive on it. -.-

Dont forget the talks that they're planning to TEAR DOWN the old Port Mann Bridge instead of twinning it. Now there's only one way to cross the Fraser (and the Patullo is already fucking terrible as it is), and the most direct method to Coquitlam/Vancouver will be tolled. TransLink is basically shunning anyone who lives on the Surrey/Langley side of the Fraser River, and diverting traffic to one of the worst bridges in the Lower Mainland.

WHY do I have to pay money just to leave my own city?

[twitchyzero]

the solution is so damn easy, make replacement passes cost just as much as the original so people can't scalp these.

So those rumours about translink making fake u-pass ads to fine people, were they actually true? Entrapment?

[JesseBlue]

Let's look at outrageous bonuses first...save tens of millions a year from "executives"

[shawn79]

if the prices werent so high people might consider taking the bus more and not jumping on skytrains

[Gilgamesh]

They extensively do checks on the Canada Line. They seldomly do checks on Millennium and they never check the Expo line. I think transit would easily catch a lot of people on the b-line to ubc since I doubt most people on it, actually pay.

[CP.AR]

Dont forget the talks that they're planning to TEAR DOWN the old Port Mann Bridge instead of twinning it. Now there's only one way to cross the Fraser (and the Patullo is already fucking terrible as it is), and the most direct method to Coquitlam/Vancouver will be tolled. TransLink is basically shunning anyone who lives on the Surrey/Langley side of the Fraser River, and diverting traffic to one of the worst bridges in the Lower Mainland.

WHY do I have to pay money just to leave my own city?
The horrid massey tunnel. Oh great! let's build a new "south perimeter access road" to channel more people into it!

[Geoc]

To be honest, the UPass is one of the more practical fees that is being charged compared to the rest of the fees we get charged along with tuition, sure a sizable amount of people don't use it, but it is needed for some people to get to the school and get their education.

But the bullshit fees like the mandatory health insurance, rec, and sport teams that doesn't affect your ability to get your education in anyway to should be dumped.

SFU being culturally devoid as it is, and the majority of the student population lives over 50km away from the hill, it's not like anyone is going to actually go use what they pay for anyways.

[Frank D'Angelo]

^^ acutally I think in SFU if you lose your U-pass you can get another one free. So I could sell the one I get in the beginning of the semster and claim i lost mine and get another one for free. Win Win!

Um, no.

[Nocardia]

Only reason their trying to screw us is to get MORE money. Maybe if Translink didn't do things like.. trying to build a Gondola to SFU ($70 million) or keep hounding for a new Pattullo bridge (Estimated $1 billion) they wouldn't be losing all their funds. Canada Line soaked up tons of money but also made them tons, I'm sure the new Portman will do the same. The only thing that I can figure is making them lose money is the Golden Ears bridge.

I am pretty sure you are just reiterating what you feel the media is portraying

Everything costs money but its an investment, they aren't losing money on the Golden Ears Bridge, it is just taking longer than initially forecast to pay back the loans (leading to increase in overall cost). I am sure that the Canada Line does have a lot of ridership but how many are UPASS students or people who already had monthly/yearly (so therefore, there is no increase in actual revenue)

In the end, this entire topic has been beaten like a dead horse and since we are on a car site, everyone is anti-public transit.

[Nocardia]

They wouldnt have this problem if they let people omit from getting a upass at school. Going to school is costly enough, with all the school fees and other stupid shit we have to pay, we dont need to fork out more for upass. Give the option for those that drive and dont need it as a "credit" towards a cost for a parking pass and those that do not drive let them have a upass.

If you have a car + are going to school, you are way ahead of the curve. What is another few hundred a year? Its a socialized system (along with you schooling). Why are my taxes subsidizing your school? The least you can do is HELP pay for the less fortunate's transit to get an education.

I hope craigslist doesnt give in and tells them to handle their own shit lolol
Seriously? I bet you are pro-child pornography and slavery too...just let them handle their own shit.

[Eff-1]

I went to SFU during Upass. Of course I voted no because I drove at the time. But really, here are the facts about Upass.

Based on the existing price of around $30 per month per student, translink LOSES money on the Upass. It's only because the Prov Gov't offers supplemental funding for the program that it even exists and becomes revenue neutral.

An opt-out isn't possible. It defeats the whole purpose. And like I said, even at mandatory $30 per student, it's a money-loser.

The reality is Translink is fucking broke and it's hard enough for them to offer a Upass as it is. The government subsidizes it. Anyone who says Upass is a profitable money-maker doesn't know what he's talking about.

Besides, if Translink was making profit, that's actually a GOOD thing. It means they can reinvest the money into new projects (like new bridges, more buses and trains) without raising more taxes or tolls. Right now that's not even close to possible, which sucks big time for all of us drivers.

[achiam]

I've said the following before on several other threads in the past several years but I'll repeat it for people who didn't read it or forgot.

I worked for UBC Parking many years ago during my undergrad degree. The real reason for the UPass was to facilitate development of the luxury apartments/condos on both UBC and SFU.

The universities wanted to earn cash from the residential developments but GVRD stipulated that net vehicular traffic to/fro campus could not increase. By introducing the UPass, students would transit and thus decrease the amount of cars entering campus. With the increase in vehicular traffic from the new luxury apartment residents, the net change would be zero.

This model allowed the rezoning to go through. The students thought they were getting a great deal. The tree fuckers were happy thinking that carbon emissions were falling. The developers and UBC bigwigs were happy with more cash, etc..

[spideyv2]

I have no remorse for translink after having to deal with the fucking 100 bus for over 5 years..that line SUCKS

[ShadowBun]

fk last year and they cancel UPASS?
parking $ at UBC is a bitch

[frozen]

The biggest mistakes are paying those uneducated bus drivers too much salary.

[SpartanAir]

It's translinks damn problem not ours. Why would you have such an easily conquerable system? Just make the pass harder to copy or figure something else out. Don't punish the people for exploiting their easily exploitable system.

[Harryt]

If there is mis use they need to do something about it instead of crying. They should have more checks then or do what they have in USA or UK. When I went there you can't enter the track area till a machine scans your card and opens the special quick access gate.

it takes literally 5 secs of your time, which you would've wasted standing anyways.

I guess translink is too cheap to do that in the first place.

What made me laugh was during the olympics. How visitors said "wow... Canadian's have so much trust with their system."

They could not believe, that we had no checking systems here. That it's completely trust based although the checking is slightly more strict now.

So they shouldn't be blaming the students. As for the Upass they should make it mandatory for student pictures and providing student ID cards. I always have mines on me anyways.

[melloman]

They extensively do checks on the Canada Line. They seldomly do checks on Millennium and they never check the Expo line. I think transit would easily catch a lot of people on the b-line to ubc since I doubt most people on it, actually pay.

This is where the new system "Compass" will come into play.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110331/bc_translink_compass_110331/20110331?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

They will gain more revenue from that for 2 reasons:

1. Turnstyles will hinder people from getting a "free ride" on the Skytrain or bus.
2. This card can be TURNED OFF if Translink thinks the card is being mis-used, or is reported lost or stolen.
It's considered a debit/credit card where you can refill it and won't need those damn fare cards anymore.

P.S. They decided to tell you on that page that the gov't is paying $70 million out of $171 million, wondering how much Translink is paying compared to tax payers? :troll:

[Kalize]

...they sent craigslist a letter?...talk about lazy...they should be checking and cracking down on it themselves

[orange7]

They could resolve this problem by making transit passes actually affordable so that ppl wouldn't mind paying for them.

[Mr.HappySilp]

They could resolve this problem by making transit passes actually affordable so that ppl wouldn't mind paying for them.

They can't lol with all the fat pay cheques and bonus upper management get there is no room to lower the prices.

[gars]

They could resolve this problem by making transit passes actually affordable so that ppl wouldn't mind paying for them.

How much lower do the passes need to be to be considered affordable?

[Nocardia]

How much lower do the passes need to be to be considered affordable?

Thats a great question. I am interested in seeing some of the responses.
I buy the book of tickets which is great now because you get like 2 free in a book of 10 (used to be straight pricing).

I don't really like the 3 zone model, it makes good sense, but in reality, the buses/skytrains are running regardless of how far you go and if you pass over a zone border going only 2 stops it is ridiculous.

I personally think that $80-100/month is reasonable, the problem is if they want people out of their cars and reduce traffic, they need to target the 3 zone people ($150/month is not cost effective)

[asahai69]

its seems quite petty that theyre going after programs like this. if they had such a huge problem with money then they should be more focused on scrapping the west coast express and adding turnstiles at every skytrain station.

[Ronin]

Not my problem anymore but I figure Translink has nothing to complain about. It's their own fault they used a business model that only works when people pay for something and then not use it.

Seriously...U-Pass is mandatory so you have no choice but to pay for it even if you drive to school every day. Now smart people have said fuck you to Translink and sold their unused U-Pass. I see this as justified. You purchased a service so it should be your own choice what to do with it.

Also...

Forgive my doubting nature, but I'm not ready to buy the claim that students reselling transit passes forced upon them as a condition of enrolling at many universities and colleges is really costing TransLink $15 million a year.

To begin with, by my arithmetic -admittedly imprecise, but then so is the evidence supporting claims of significant student transit fraud -one in six students would have to resell his or her non-transferable U-Pass each academic year for TransLink to lose that much.

Secondly, extrapolating lost revenue on the basis of passes that have simply disappeared -lost in the mail, left in a jeans pocket at the laundry, buried at the bottom of a handbag, used as a bookmark and forgotten, mishandled by institutions -is really an imaginary cost that may not even be occurring.

TransLink says investigators found 29 U-Passes either listed for sale or sought by prospective buyers on Craigslist, up from two postings on the website several weeks earlier. This may represent a trend -or it may not. Whatever it is, it's a tiny sample.

While even a small black market in discounted transit passes certainly deserves concern, 29 U-Passes amounts to about two per cent of the more than 1,500 a month that would have to be sold during the academic year for TransLink to lose what it claims.

One of TransLink's complaints is students who "receive" a U-Pass "provided" by their college or university but then use it after they've dropped studies. But students must pay up to $200 per term in non-refundable U-Pass fees under levies from which they can't opt out, whether they need the pass or not.

Forcing students to pay for the pass, refusing a refund when their enrolment status changes and complaining that they use what they've paid for while it's still valid seems more than a tad unjust.

TransLink was quoted Thursday as saying it might have to cancel the student pass program if the problem persists but was soon distancing itself from what seems to be an overthe-top response. A spokesman later said that "in the fullness of time," TransLink might have to reconsider should the U-Pass program prove unsustainable due to student fraud.

Talk about getting out the elephant gun to hunt fleas.

TransLink itself says there are solutions to this. Meetings are already scheduled to discuss a universal electronic fare card that could replace transit passes and permit TransLink to cancel any U-Pass it believes misused. And how about a lowtech solution like asking students to present their college ID along with the U-Pass?

Some anti-fraud organizations estimate that up to 15 per cent of insurance claims are either exaggerated or fraudulent.

So, anybody in favour of ending auto insurance and shutting down ICBC because clients are seven times more likely to precipitate a fraudulent act than the evidence indicates is the incidence of buying or selling non-refundable student transit passes on Craigslist?

shume@islandnet.com

http://www.vancouversun.com/story_print.html?id=4847913&sponsor=