[tiger_handheld]

So if you guys clued in with my previous posts, i'm in the process of buying a car :)...


It's a private deal, and how do i go about using a gift letter/form to waive the taxes? Is there a threshold where a car is not subject to tax (ie. <10k car is not subject to taxes). What are the chances of being audited for such thing?

Thanks guys for all your help. I hope i have unlimited thanks .. i will need them.

[vafanculo]

I take it it's not really a gift? Why risk being audited? If it happens you are screwed.

Best bet is to workout the taxes in the negotiating of the price with the seller, and have him report the car is worth less then it really is..

Either way is cheating the system, but if you are gonna go that route, make it the safest way possible
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[TypeRNammer]

Chances are slim but when it hits you, you will get in deep shit. Don't do it.

You can declare it as a low value car, it won't affect the market value.

[shantz]

When you go to register the vehicle if there is any doubt ICBC will call around and start asking questions to verify the information... don't get burned

[tiger_handheld]

Chances are slim but when it hits you, you will get in deep shit. Don't do it.

You can declare it as a low value car, it won't affect the market value.

How do I do that?
The is over 15k.

[Datsun]

I heard the gift car/tax exemption thing stopped working May 1.

[tiger_handheld]

^ yes. instead of a letter , now you have to fill out a form.

[GLOW]

IMO the question isnt what are the chances you'll get caught, but rather what will happen if you get caught.

for $2000 i personally wouldn't risk that. I remember selling a car for below market value (i needed it gone) and the lady at the insurance office was like woah so cheap?! i said there were problems with imperfections with it (dirty interior, scratches on the paint, worn out from tires etc.) so she said she'd make a note on the sale form that the price was adjusted according to condition of vehicle. she said she did that in case CRA audited me at least there was indication as to why the car was sold so low.

[Fafine]

yeah just say that one of the cylinder is misfiring which is why it's so cheap

[tiger_handheld]

The car is listed at 15. My plan was to put it as $5000 , and pay the $600 tax.

[Fafine]

^ are you chinese?

you could probably get away with 8 or 9g but 5? c'mon..

even at 9 its only 480 bucks more than what you originally wanted to pay for taxes

[vitaminG]

If you buy the car well below market value because of "mechanical defects" if ICBC ever inquired about it, then you could let them know you fixed the defects defects yourself. I dont really see how they would be able to prove anything.

If you gift it on the other hand, theyre going to wonder why a complete stranger is giving you a free car, and i dont really see what kind of explanation you would be able to offer them.

[tiger_handheld]

^ I found this thread after I created this: http://www.revscene.net/forums/selling-car-between-t608476p2.html

refer to post# 29 - the guy seems to work for autoplan.

[Edison_Chen]

I've heard recently that CTB-Consumber taxation branch is cracking down on gift vehicles. Some people who were gifting vehicles got caught with a bill in the mail for the taxes. Next they are likely to track down on people who are using 'price of vehicles under 90% value'.

[asian_XL]

"He's a plumber, I caught him sleeping with my neighbour's wife. He wants to keep my mouth shut and offers me a car at very low price."

[JesseBlue]

man...so many hear say..i heard this and i heard that...

just fill out the form for gifting and see what happens..

[2damaxmr2]

Don't be a pussy and fill out the form.

[BlackZRoadster]

Don't be a pussy and pay the damn taxes on the value of the car.

Scamming the government is still scamming, karma is a bitch.

[MindBomber]

What will you tell ICBC when they inform you they've subpoened the bank records of both parties and they have evidence that $15,000 was withdrawn from your account and deposited into theirs, coincidently on the same date the car was sold.

Taxes are less than lawyers fees.
If you buy the car well below market value because of "mechanical defects" if ICBC ever inquired about it, then you could let them know you fixed the defects defects yourself. I dont really see how they would be able to prove anything.

If you gift it on the other hand, theyre going to wonder why a complete stranger is giving you a free car, and i dont really see what kind of explanation you would be able to offer them.
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[Jgresch]

man...so many hear say..i heard this and i heard that...

just fill out the form for gifting and see what happens..

Don't be a pussy and fill out the form.

terrible advice... any real reasoning as to why he shoudl do this?

OP, You're spending 15 grand on a car, and are risking tax fraud because you wanna save $1200.... If you can't afford the taxes find a cheaper car.

[Kalize]

your signature says "make the effort and take the risk.."...

if I were you, I'd just pay the taxes on what you paid and call it a day.

[CRS]

The thing you actually should consider is if shit hits the fan, how likely is the seller going to flip you?

Do you think the seller will stand by your side throughout the investigation? I'm willing to bet all my life's savings that the seller will flip on you the second he/she hears there is an investigation and pin everything on you.

Now that they have his/her word, what do you have?

[GLOW]

man...so many hear say..i heard this and i heard that...

just fill out the form for gifting and see what happens..

this is the response i was expecting on RS

RS did not disappoint!

:fullofwin:

[wasabisashimi]

^ are you chinese?

you could probably get away with 8 or 9g but 5? c'mon..

even at 9 its only 480 bucks more than what you originally wanted to pay for taxes

hahah, thats a racist statement/assumption. Pay your taxes, you will sleep better

[dark0821]

The thing you actually should consider is if shit hits the fan, how likely is the seller going to flip you?

Do you think the seller will stand by your side throughout the investigation? I'm willing to bet all my life's savings that the seller will flip on you the second he/she hears there is an investigation and pin everything on you.

Now that they have his/her word, what do you have?

This!

because its the purchaser's responsibility to pay the taxes....

[pk_volt]

You are not scamming the government... the government is scamming you with retarded taxes. But in the end, there's nothing you can do...

ICBC can easily just dig this forum thread up and prove it as evidence... you're already raped up the bum if you try to neglect taxes...

[BlackZRoadster]

^ if you dont like paying taxes . maybe you should move to a country that has less taxes? You have choice where you want to live.

[JesseBlue]

terrible advice... any real reasoning as to why he shoudl do this?

OP, You're spending 15 grand on a car, and are risking tax fraud because you wanna save $1200.... If you can't afford the taxes find a cheaper car.

In the end, you know he doesn't want to pay the taxes on it so the way to know what will happen is to try it out...

How many times would you pay taxes selling a used car? Don't tell me used car dealers don't do favors similar to this to prospective/actual buyers...

[BlackZRoadster]

^ none of the dealerships I have worked at will declare false value to save the customers tax.
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[Skyline350gt]

My last car was a gift and I got full value of the car when it was totalled(rear ended).
No questions was asked.
The person who gave me the car was my brothers best friend, and he wrote a letter saying it was for my 20Th birthday.

[Mananetwork]

You are not scamming the government... the government is scamming you with retarded taxes. But in the end, there's nothing you can do...

ICBC can easily just dig this forum thread up and prove it as evidence... you're already raped up the bum if you try to neglect taxes...

^ if you dont like paying taxes . maybe you should move to a country that has less taxes? You have choice where you want to live.

^ BITCH PLEASE! How is the government not scamming us by paying taxes on used cars?! The car can pass through 12 different people with each person having to pay tax! SCAM-UP-THE-ASSS!!

[BlackZRoadster]

The money that goes to government goes into funding all different types of things.

So before you " bitch please " me, you should thank the government who pays the welfare cheques in dtes
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[tiger_handheld]

Thanks guys for all your opinions.


The money that goes to government goes into funding all different types of things.

So before you " bitch please " me, you should thank the government who pays the welfare cheques in dtes
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completely off topic:

I'm sorry, I didn't know it was my duty to pay for the welfare of lazy crack addicts. Maybe instead of saving up to buy a car, I should go just go and be a lazy bum on the street, and live off other peoples money...

every minute I work - I pay taxes
every time I fill up - I pay taxes
every time I buy basic necessities to live - I pay taxes
For owning a home - I pay taxes

Tell me at which point in time the recipients of welfare checks pay taxes.

Give me a break if I want to save $1200.

[BlackZRoadster]

Thanks guys for all your opinions.





completely off topic:

I'm sorry, I didn't know it was my duty to pay for the welfare of lazy crack addicts. Maybe instead of saving up to buy a car, I should go just go and be a lazy bum on the street, and live off other peoples money...

every minute I work - I pay taxes
every time I fill up - I pay taxes
every time I buy basic necessities to live - I pay taxes
For owning a home - I pay taxes

Tell me at which point in time the recipients of welfare checks pay taxes.

Give me a break if I want to save $1200.

my comments about the welfare cheques to DTES was not directed to you. But for ppl who needed it, which i quoted him.

edit: everyone pays taxes the same as you. just b/c you pay taxes everywhere means you can do tax fraud to save yourself 1200?
do you pity those who tax fraud millions of dollars who get caught?

[shenmecar]

you can put anything you want on paper. I bought a car that was 13.5k and i put down 5k when i did the transfer and bought insurance. the autoplan guy just asked me why was the car under market value and I only said that the car needed work. just tell the seller to come with you if its a private sell.

saved me a lot of taxes there!

[unit]

more on this:

i believe that if you claim it as 6k, and the car gets written off, you'll only get 6k, not 15k or the book value.

if your car gets written off, please dont make a thread complaining about how icbc screwed you out of 9k.

[unit]

every minute I work - I pay taxes
every time I fill up - I pay taxes
every time I buy basic necessities to live - I pay taxes
For owning a home - I pay taxes

Give me a break if I want to save $1200.

so does everyone else who pays their car taxes fairly...

[tiger_handheld]

more on this:

i believe that if you claim it as 6k, and the car gets written off, you'll only get 6k, not 15k or the book value.

if your car gets written off, please dont make a thread complaining about how icbc screwed you out of 9k.


quoted from another thread on rs. i mentioned this thread on the previous page as well: http://www.revscene.net/forums/selling-car-between-t608476p2.html

Should be market value. When my car got written off they gave me $2600, but I only paid $1500.
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You can gift a vehicle to anyone, it does not have to be a family member. Private sales usually involve the purchaser to pay tax on the vehicle.

If you gift a vehicle and its written off you get current market value for the vehicle ( its always a good idea to take in adds off buysell etc for similar cars incase icbc does try to low ball) its usually a pretty decent pay out, keep in mind im looking at it form a claims perspective

We use a gold book value now, it shows the original MSRP, current value, and whole sale price of the vehicle

The reason we ask why you are selling the vehicle for less the 90% of current market value or what the relation is between buyer and seller is because we have to input something on the APV9E (tax exemption online form)

If icbc does really want to know if the vehicle is really a gift or not they send a letter to the seller of the vehicle asking what the vehicle was sold for, if you send the letter back saying "gift" the trail ends there

hope that helps

ICBC gives you current market value. . . . i thought this was already discussed?

how is it so hard to understand? here's an example for you.
I bought a car for $36k cash from a private party. We wrote down that I paid $20k for it to save on some tax. Car got written off. ICBC valued the car at $43k + HST. I got close to $50k for the car from ICBC. ;)

Doesn't matter what he paid, ICBC should pay what it costs to replace.

[MindBomber]

^ BITCH PLEASE! How is the government not scamming us by paying taxes on used cars?! The car can pass through 12 different people with each person having to pay tax! SCAM-UP-THE-ASSS!!

You know whats a scam?
Pearsoncare, for decades the government has been forcing universal healthcare on us and taxing us moderately to cover it. I fucking hate this country, I'm emigrating to Syria where the government treats it's citizens fairly.
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[melloman]

Thanks guys for all your opinions.





completely off topic:

I'm sorry, I didn't know it was my duty to pay for the welfare of lazy crack addicts. Maybe instead of saving up to buy a car, I should go just go and be a lazy bum on the street, and live off other peoples money...

every minute I work - I pay taxes
every time I fill up - I pay taxes
every time I buy basic necessities to live - I pay taxes
For owning a home - I pay taxes

Tell me at which point in time the recipients of welfare checks pay taxes.

Give me a break if I want to save $1200.

You pay taxes for a decent life. People on welfare pay taxes too idiot. They buy groceries and that's taxed. They live in houses which are taxed. There's a small population of crackheads that live in a cardboard box, and buy crack with their welfare money. Maybe lets say 1-2% of BC.

Have a walk on the DTES and count the crackheads, then look how many people actually live in GVRD. Taxes pay for a lot of shit, from healthcare to upkeep of your electricity/plumbing/roads.

Without taxes I'd love to see how fast the city would fall to shit. If you don't want to pay taxes:

GO TO SIBERIA.

[BlackZRoadster]

Thanks dude !^
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[pk_volt]

I understand taxes are a requirement to sustain the city, but just the fact that taxing people from buying USED items from other people is lame.

I could live with taxing on buying used vehicle if the rate was lower for just this particular case, but at 12%... holy shit man! Only reason why we're taxed on buying used cars is it gives equal opportunities for car dealers to sell cars.

Those of you who talk crap about "If you don't like it here, move to a different country" are just people who don't care even if they are get trampled down by the government and are unable to come up with more viable solutions as what a normal citizen should do... and THEY'RE the ones who should "move to a different country".

[MindBomber]

No, I don't think I should move to another country; I recognize the extreme costs associated with providing social services to the citizens of this country and am willing to contribute finacially to sustain them. There is no system more fair for the government to collect revenue than sales taxes, it burdens all people equally despite income level or obligations based on what they spend.

If you feel so strongly about taxing used items though Pk, explain how the system would work.

- What would prevent a car dealer from driving a car around for a few days and calling it "used"?
- How would you respond to protests from businesses selling new products, that businesses selling used products have an unfair advantage?
- How would you replace the lost tax revenue or what government programs would you cut funding from?

I understand taxes are a requirement to sustain the city, but just the fact that taxing people from buying USED items from other people is lame.

I could live with taxing on buying used vehicle if the rate was lower for just this particular case, but at 12%... holy shit man!

Those of you who talk crap about "If you don't like it here, move to a different country" are just people who don't care even if they are get trampled down by the government and are unable to come up with more viable solutions as what a normal citizen should do... and THEY'RE the ones who should "move to a different country".
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[BlackZRoadster]

Argue and debate all you guys want!

At the end of the day, you have to pay taxes! All this arguing and bickering does not make the government change the rules.

However, if you like to do tax fraud, that is at your discretion. Don't cry when you get screwed over one day in life.

[Phil@rise]

To attempt to figure out how much a car may or may not have been sold for, both parties would need to be audited by the government not ICBC. ICBC doesn't care if you pay your takes they are just the point of sale collectors.
Why would the government audit two people for a measly used car sale?

[tiger_handheld]

Guys, Thanks a lot for your feedback.

MODS: Feel free to rename this thread to "Taxes on Used items - Fair or Unfair " and move it to Van Offtopic.

[BlackZRoadster]

To attempt to figure out how much a car may or may not have been sold for, both parties would need to be audited by the government not ICBC. ICBC doesn't care if you pay your takes they are just the point of sale collectors.
Why would the government audit two people for a measly used car sale?

Assuming you have a business , I'm sure there is some tax evasion going on since they don't check for some measley small business
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[ddonovan]

I heard the gift car/tax exemption thing stopped working May 1.

I heard the same thing..., no gifts. ICBC will determine the value and tax you accordingly. It is easier to have the bill of sale depreciated a bit instead of trying to get a gift tax exemption.

Again though if the deflated price is too low ICBC will dissalow and will go on blue book or black book value.

[BlackZRoadster]

^ thanks icbc and gov't
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[Edison_Chen]

As of May 1, 2011, for gift transfer, there is a new form called Fin319. Any transactions after that date will need the new gift letter which can also be found here: http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/forms/0319FILL.pdf That is the only difference before May 1, 2011 as per the tax section in the Autoplan Manual.

Remember, even if you have an old gift letter, you cannot use it now. Brokers will not accept the old style gift letters

[Phil@rise]

I heard the same thing..., no gifts. ICBC will determine the value and tax you accordingly. It is easier to have the bill of sale depreciated a bit instead of trying to get a gift tax exemption.

Again though if the deflated price is too low ICBC will dissalow and will go on blue book or black book value.

I just gifted a vehicle to a friend two days ago...no probs

I've bought numerous vehicles and declared well below book value on the basis of needing repairs. Both before and during business ownership. The taxes are payed on the parts needed for said repairs so the gov gets their money.

[LW]

Sorry but this just isn't a smart idea. It is tax fraud. I hate that we pay taxes on used cars as much as anyone, but won't act illegally to circumvent paying them.