[chince]

A few years back my dad purchased a new vehicle. Prior to this he had a pretty bad driving record so he didnt have a car for about 4-5 years. So when he went to the insurance place to buy insurance for his vehicle they gave him the basic starting rate. Now being about 2 years later he gave the car to my sister and a few months after that he receives a letter from icbc saying he owes them about 20k for roughly those 2 years. *note in these two years every payment was made on time for about 250 a month* We looked into it ICBC claims that they accidently gave him the basic rate and the real rate was supposed to be something like 700% and he had better pay up even though it was their mistake. If the insurance rep told him the rate was supposed to be 700% i dont think he or anyone in their right mind would buy insurance for that vehicle. Anyways ICBC is saying we have to pay up.

Has anyone out there encountered this similar problem?

How can this problem be resolved and whats the best way to do so without blowing alot of money?

If he were to get a lawyer which would cost a few grand would we be able to get icbc to pay the cost of the lawyer fees as well if he won?

Thanks

[fsy82]

i think you should consult a lawyer

[Dragon-88]

Thats a lot of money.. Lawyer is your best bet..

[JesseBlue]

tell icbc to fuckyall...

buy basic from them and get the others from a private place

[FerrariEnzo]

tell icbc to fuckyall...

buy basic from them and get the others from a private place

lmao.. guess you didnt read, his dads at 700%, even at basic its not going to be worth it, its gotta take a long damn time for it to go back down.
im at -43% and i have my license for 14 years.


i dont know how the system works at icbc but if hes at that high of rates, wouldnt it be flagged in the system??

[ruthless]

lmao.. guess you didnt read, his dads at 700%, even at basic its not going to be worth it, its gotta take a long damn time for it to go back down.
im at -43% and i have my license for 14 years.


i dont know how the system works at icbc but if hes at that high of rates, wouldnt it be flagged in the system??

Yea the increase in premiums gets applied to the persons drivers license so when they insure a vehicle the surplus gets applied automatically...
ICBC fucked up nicely 700% holy fuck...i was at +40% and was complaining

as stated above speak to a lawyer even if you had to pay your own lawyer fees if you got off you would still "save money" in comparison

[speedking]

your dad dont need to pay anything to icbc since it's their fault. however they might be able to charged him higher rate if he ever insured another car. for example, if your dad and me have same 40% discount, same vehicle,same coverage, and both live same city and so on... icbc might charged me $100per month for my car while your dad will get charged $200 per month. i've been in almost the same situation except mine only happened for 2 months so i didnt really owe them too much.

[chince]

not only are they asking for 20k they also put a full lockdown on the vehicle and will not sell insurance to my sister for that vehicle even though it is under her name now. there is an option of selling the vehicle but there really isnt a point because the problem wouldnt be resolved and they would still ask for the 20k even though its their fault. we also dont feel like we should pay lawyer fees because its their fault to begin with. we asked advice from some lawyers and they gave pretty much the same answer which is that they will look into it for a certain amount of money and my guess is to get this problem fixed it will probably cost a few grand in lawyer fees.

[Prolowtone]

^They cant do that. If his name is not on the vehicle registration they cant do anything about it as Your sister is not the one who has a bad history. I say fight it, She might even be able to get something out of them for her inconvenience

[chince]

^They cant do that. If his name is not on the vehicle registration they cant do anything about it as Your sister is not the one who has a bad history. I say fight it, She might even be able to get something out of them for her inconvenience

they cant but they did. we asked a lawyer and he also said what you said but he will only look into it if you give him 500. $500 for a looking into it fee is a bit much so maybe someone on this forum can give us insight before we have to go as far as getting a lawyer. a 3-5grand lawyer bill for something that isnt your fault doesnt sound too great.

[FerrariEnzo]

if your dad knew he had a bad driving record, shouldnt have asked about it when he got his insurance or wondered about it? to get 700% after 4 years (dont really need to know what it is)

i think it would be fault on both parties, ICBC for giving your dad basic rates, your dad for knowing about his bad driving habits and didnt find it curious that he was given basic rates...

at best, from my judgment, paying half.. try negotiating with icbc and see if you can get away with half.. you really dont want to mess with the government, when it comes to money

[chince]

if your dad knew he had a bad driving record, shouldnt have asked about it when he got his insurance or wondered about it? to get 700% after 4 years (dont really need to know what it is)

i think it would be fault on both parties, ICBC for giving your dad basic rates, your dad for knowing about his bad driving habits and didnt find it curious that he was given basic rates...

at best, from my judgment, paying half.. try negotiating with icbc and see if you can get away with half.. you really dont want to mess with the government, when it comes to money

you owe me 10 dollars for no reason but you can pay me half. so 5 dollars pls

[Geoc]

Make sure you read any terms and conditions on the insurance agreement on which you signed to see if they have stated anything that could potentially allow them to pull this kinda stunt on you. Then seek a lawyer.

[chince]

i guess lawyer is the only option. thanks for the advice/input guys.

[fsy82]

they cant but they did. we asked a lawyer and he also said what you said but he will only look into it if you give him 500. $500 for a looking into it fee is a bit much so maybe someone on this forum can give us insight before we have to go as far as getting a lawyer. a 3-5grand lawyer bill for something that isnt your fault doesnt sound too great.

500 is alot better than paying 20gs. your dad doesnt seem too worried about this situation. if he was serious he would have gotten a lawyer on this issue right away.

[Phil@rise]

700% surcharge on a basic plan?! Your old man must have been in at least a dozen 100% at fault accidents to generate that. Should he really be driving?

[FerrariEnzo]

you owe me 10 dollars for no reason but you can pay me half. so 5 dollars pls

i didnt any service from you, so why would i pay..
your dad got insurance knowing his previous bad driving record, wouldnt get curious about getting base rate or asking the broker, i know i would..

700% surcharge on a basic plan?! Your old man must have been in at least a dozen 100% at fault accidents to generate that. Should he really be driving?
that or lots of drinking driving or something, so wouldnt ANY wonder why they are getting base rates so soon??

[ruthless]

700% surcharge on a basic plan?! Your old man must have been in at least a dozen 100% at fault accidents to generate that. Should he really be driving?

i didnt any service from you, so why would i pay..
your dad got insurance knowing his previous bad driving record, wouldnt get curious about getting base rate or asking the broker, i know i would..


that or lots of drinking driving or something, so wouldnt ANY wonder why they are getting base rates so soon??

exactly if it really is 700% it would take him 70 years to go back to 0(no discount/no surcharge)...minus 10% for every good year of driving

[godwin]

You can sue / blame the agent of not disclosing all aspects fully to your dad. I highly doubt ICBC is at fault here. It is up to the agent to verify everything is legitimate.

In the end, discount rates don't accumulate if you don't own a car (which your dad did). He should had owned a $500 crap box sitting on the drive way with basic insurance and take transit.

It is just like going to one of the 7-11 Translink ticket outlets and buy a 1 zone ticket for 3 zone use. You can't plea ignorance if you get caught just because you didn't read the rules.

Oh to the person who said go else where for insurance. No private insurance company will take a client with a horrendous driving record like that. Only a government owned entity will do that like ICBC. Because of drivers like that, that's why we all pay higher insurance; and at risk demographics (eg teenage males) are not paying $5k+ a year for insurance.

[noventa]

exactly if it really is 700% it would take him 70 years to go back to 0(no discount/no surcharge)...minus 10% for every good year of driving

no it's not. stop spewing crap.

[chince]

to me it seems like they did it on purpose because they waited till after he transfered the car to my sister then they notified him so they probably wanted to screw him over for as much as they could. he did speak with a lawyer today and they are currently looking into it. they did say that this will probably take a few months or up to a year to get it sorted out.

[Edison_Chen]

The worse person I've seen was level +36 it was well over 5,000% surcharge

[FerrariEnzo]

In the end, discount rates don't accumulate if you don't own a car (which your dad did).
As qouted from ICBC website

"For each year that you do not make an at-fault claim, you will move down the claim-rated scale. Once you are at level -1, you will start to receive a 5 per cent discount on your premium. Every claim-free year after this will increase this discount by 5 per cent until you reach 43 per cent." (http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/costs/claim-record/CRS)

you do not need to own a vehicle to start the discount cycle


to me it seems like they did it on purpose because they waited till after he transfered the car to my sister then they notified him so they probably wanted to screw him over for as much as they could. he did speak with a lawyer today and they are currently looking into it. they did say that this will probably take a few months or up to a year to get it sorted out.
and everytime they "Look into it", its gona cost your dad $500 a pop.. ouch, adds up quickly.

[dai3yuen]

Why don't you tell us what the letter exactly says...

[godwin]

That only applies if you don't have an accident or any issues.

If you had an accident and then take your name off all the cars you own; the penalty stays attached to the driver not the vehicle. Your surcharge don't get decreased until you own your car again.

Google up: ICBC attached driver, there are a few cases on this board too.

eg here (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:873pk5b5Wm0J:www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-36815.html+&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=encrypted.google.com).


As qouted from ICBC website

"For each year that you do not make an at-fault claim, you will move down the claim-rated scale. Once you are at level -1, you will start to receive a 5 per cent discount on your premium. Every claim-free year after this will increase this discount by 5 per cent until you reach 43 per cent." (http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/costs/claim-record/CRS)

you do not need to own a vehicle to start the discount cycle



and everytime they "Look into it", its gona cost your dad $500 a pop.. ouch, adds up quickly.

[FerrariEnzo]

That only applies if you don't have an accident or any issues.

If you had an accident and then take your name off all the cars you own; the penalty stays attached to the driver not the vehicle. Your surcharge don't get decreased until you own your car again.

Google up: ICBC attached driver, there are a few cases on this board too.

eg here (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:873pk5b5Wm0J:www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/archive//t-36815.html+&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=encrypted.google.com).
hmm... ive never had an at-fault accident in my 14 years of driving, so i dont know..

but im sure you are talking about 2 different rates.

1 for basic inurance (which i quoted you)
1 about surcharge (which You quoted me)

[PornMaster]

Just ask your insurance broker for your discount rate.
Your discount rate starts when you have your L

I have never had an at fault accident so I am at like 30% or something
However I thought insurance premiums change if you have a lot of points on ur license or is that just a myth?

[CRS]

Just ask your insurance broker for your discount rate.
Your discount rate starts when you have your L

I have never had an at fault accident so I am at like 30% or something
However I thought insurance premiums change if you have a lot of points on ur license or is that just a myth?

Nope, it's true.

People with lots of points from ticket violations will have a to pay a driver's risk premium. Makes sense though. It ties in with people who get into at fault accidents. Though the two can do not have to be mutually inclusive.

[!LittleDragon]

I'm confused by this... does the driver's discount follow the driver or the car? I'm at about 35% discount because of an at fault accident 7 years ago and maybe 3 months ago, I bought a new car and Allwest told me that I was highest level roadstar when we did the insurance. Shouldn't I only have a 35% discount on both or do I have roadstar because I have two cars insured and would lose the roadstar if I cancel my policy on the old car?

[Eff-1]

Assuming the registered owner is the principal operator:

The discount follows the car-- unless the plate is cancelled. Then it gets attached to the driver until a new car is registered.

In the past, if you insured two vehicles, the first vehicle's premium reflected your accident history. Your second vehicle automatically qualified for the full discount. However, this creates a massive loophole so it's possible they have changed that policy now. A broker will know the answer to that...

Also in the past, if you have an at-fault claim, after 3 years you automatically jumped back to the discount level you had before the accident. Don't know if they still do that. Once again, a broker will know.

[ruthless]

Assuming the registered owner is the principal operator:

The discount follows the car-- unless the plate is cancelled. Then it gets attached to the driver until a new car is registered.

In the past, if you insured two vehicles, the first vehicle's premium reflected your accident history. Your second vehicle automatically qualified for the full discount. However, this creates a massive loophole so it's possible they have changed that policy now. A broker will know the answer to that...

This is still a possibility, my broker mentioned it as a option but in the end it was not financially wise to do it because I had no use of the beater sitting there and the insurance($$) going towards the beater would have helped me pay off my actual car insurance
-OT: for those of you thinking you can insure a beater with the surcharge on it, and insure your normal car without the surcharge, then cancel the beaters insurance, this is considered fraud and ICBC will ram u nicely :)

Also in the past, if you have an at-fault claim, after 3 years you automatically jumped back to the discount level you had before the accident. Don't know if they still do that. Once again, a broker will know.
It depends on the amount of surcharge being charged
In my case I had 1 at fault accident with a 40% increase in insurance, its been a year so its at 30% premium now...after 3 years i am going to start from zero (no discount/no surcharge...just like a new L driver)...at least this is what my insurance broker has said......the discount does not stay the same once you have an at fault you have to first go back to 0 then start getting discounts again


here is the claim rated scale:http://www.icbc.com/autoplan-insurance/understand-costs/crs.pdf
I was at level +4(40% surcharge), am at +3(30%) now and will start from 0 and build my discount up year by year...i was at level minus 3(-15%) at the time of the accident

[Hawflakes03]

If you have an @ fault accident when you are @ a discount level and then you jump to a surcharge position, after three years of being accident free, you are back to where you were before. If you have an @ fault accident when you are @ a surcharge level, you will jump even higher but after three years of being accident free, you go back down to base rate.

As a previous poster said, the discount follows the driver. What happens when you insure a vehicle is they ask who the primary operator is. Thus, you could have a vehicle owned by someone who has a terrible driving record but if the primary operator is an awesome driver, then that vehicle should have the awesome driver's discount.

One analogy is like the game snakes and ladders. Every year you don't have an accident, you go "down" the scale one step (and going down being a good thing). If you have an @ fault accident, you slide down the snake. How far you slide, depends on where you are when you have the @ fault accident. The further down the scale you are, the less you will slide

Thus, another analogy is that the CRS is like a pillow. The more years of accident free driving you have, the thicker the pillow. If you have to fall on it, it will hurt less when you have more years.

Now, the actual financial impact is harder to measure as it depends on the primary operator, the vehicle, the usage and the territory. Sometimes, some people will only carry basic with ICBC and then optional with another company. If they are @ a high enough discount level, if they have an @ fault accident, there is actually no financial impact @ all to their ICBC insurance.

That's because on the CRS, from years 0 to 9, you are saving on your basic insurance. From years 10 to 20, you are saving on your optional insurance. If you don't carry optional with ICBC, then there is nothing to affect.

For example, if you are @ level 20 on the CRS and you have an @ fault accident, you slide down 3 years to level 17. However, that doesn't "breach your shields" so to speak and affect the premiums you are paying on your basic insurance ... because you only affect it if you drop below level 9.

If you are @ level 10 on the CRS and you have an @ fault accident, you slide down 4 years to level 6 and you will see an increase to your basic premiums. You have breached your shields so to speak because you have dropped below level 9.

Again, the preceding paragraphs will only make sense if you have insurance with ICBC and with a private insurance company and also assuming you don't need to make a claim with your private insurance company. If the accident was serious enough and you need your own vehicle fixed, then of course you would claim with the private insurance company and then those premiums would go up as well as your ICBC one.

[Marco911]

A few years back my dad purchased a new vehicle. Prior to this he had a pretty bad driving record so he didnt have a car for about 4-5 years. So when he went to the insurance place to buy insurance for his vehicle they gave him the basic starting rate. Now being about 2 years later he gave the car to my sister and a few months after that he receives a letter from icbc saying he owes them about 20k for roughly those 2 years. *note in these two years every payment was made on time for about 250 a month* We looked into it ICBC claims that they accidently gave him the basic rate and the real rate was supposed to be something like 700% and he had better pay up even though it was their mistake. If the insurance rep told him the rate was supposed to be 700% i dont think he or anyone in their right mind would buy insurance for that vehicle. Anyways ICBC is saying we have to pay up.

Has anyone out there encountered this similar problem?

How can this problem be resolved and whats the best way to do so without blowing alot of money?

If he were to get a lawyer which would cost a few grand would we be able to get icbc to pay the cost of the lawyer fees as well if he won?

Thanks

ICBC doesn't make mistakes like this, since it's a computer algorithm that defines the rates, and it's likely they wouldn't suddenly discover the "error" against millions of insured vehicles. Without knowing the full details it sounds like your dad applied under a new DL number/identity which would allow him to purchase basic rates. Nobody in their right mind buys a car knowing that they potentially have huge premiums to pay either.