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: 2012 901 Porsche 911


vitaminG
07-02-2011, 01:07 PM
Not overly impressed, 7-speed manual is the only really cool part. Amazing theyve kept it looking more or less the same for 50 years.

2012 Porsche 911 - Motor Trernd (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1106_2012_porsche_911_look/index.html)

http://image.motortrend.com/f/32049605+w786+ar1/2012-porsche-911-front-three-quarter-in-motion-3.jpg

http://image.motortrend.com/f/37522365+w786+ar1/2012-porsche-911-front-three-quarter-3.jpg



First Look: 2012 Porsche 911
7-speed Manual, a Whole Lot Bigger...But is it Any Better?
June 30, 2011 / By Mike Febbo
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Okay, everyone, get it out of your systems. "Oh, look! A new 911 that looks just like the old 911!" We know that sentiment is going to fill the comments section below this article. For fans of the 911, we celebrate the fact that every new 911 still looks like a 911. The first car was a near-perfect design for its time, and all Porsche has had to do over almost 50 years of production is modernize it with each new generation. What really matters is what's under the skin, and the 2012 991 has plenty going on.

To start, the dimensions have changed more in one fell swoop than ever in 911 history. The wheelbase has grown by almost four inches, while the overall length has only grown by 2. This may not seem significant, but the 911 has always been defined by long overhangs, especially in the rear. The shorter overhang in back is accomplished by using newly designed transaxles that move the axle line 3 inches back in relation to the engine. This is a big step in Porsche's -- and more specifically the 911's -- ongoing battle with physics. The more mass that is positioned between the axles, the less cantilevering that takes place under high-load conditions, something that defines and hinders the rear-engine design.

Moving the engine and transmission forward means more intrusion into the interior. To increase passenger space, the A-pillars and windshield have been pushed forward. The A-pillar has moved 1.4 inches, while the base of the windshield center is pushed forward more than three inches, translating to a more rounded windshield, also part of the 911's ongoing evolution. Trunk volume is said to be the same at 4.8 cubic feet, while the front-mounted gas tank volume increases by nearly a gallon.

With all the extra size, you might think the 991 has put on some weight compared to the 997, but the new design makes extensive use of aluminum and magnesium along with the traditional steel pieces. The front and rear structure, floor, hood, and doors are all built from aluminum, while the rear quarter panels, front longitudinal crash structures, A-pillars, and roof frame are all steel. Even a few magnesium pieces are thrown in for good measure as structural supports inside the car. The mixed metal architecture did provide some challenges with construction. Like-metal pieces are welded but aluminum and steel joints are affixed with adhesives. The entire body is larger and stiffer than the outgoing 997, but it actually is lighter, with a base 991 Carrera weighing almost 80 pounds less than the current 997.

With every 911 generation, Porsche has made huge strides in handling development. The 991 will be no different, not only because of its improved weight distribution, but several new systems Porsche has developed for the new platform. MacPherson strut front and multi-link rear suspension is still being used, but the geometry has been recalibrated to reduce dive and squat. Porsche will of course offer a range of performance options for the 991 chassis. Adaptive dampers were developed on the 997 and will return for the 991, augmented by an adaptive anti-roll system similar to the PDCC system found on the Cayenne. Adding to Porsche's alphabet soup will be a yet-unnamed electronically variable limited slip differential offered on PDK-equipped cars. The LSD uses the hydraulic pump in the PDK to change the lock-up ratio to suit driving conditions. Cars equipped with the seven-speed manual will still have to make do with a standard mechanical limited slip differential.

For the first time in 911 history, the 991 will switch to electric power steering. While most electric power steering units don't live up to Porsche standards, the company insists this system does. Not only will it reduce complexity and the number of hydraulic lines that run the length of the vehicle, but it also is more efficient, only drawing power when needed.

Porsche is giving the new cars more efficient powertrains as well. The 997 mid-cycle update marked a switch to direct-injection, but there is a bigger change for the 991 base model. The engine drops from 3.6 to 3.4 liters but gains 5 horsepower. S models will still use 3.8-liter flat-6s but will gain 15 hp, up to an even 400 thanks to new fuel injectors, hollow camshafts, and lighter variable valve timing gear. The lighter rotating and reciprocating mass inside the engine also allows for a higher 7800-rpm redline. Transmission choices are either the seven-speed PDK or a seven-speed manual transmission based on the three-shaft semi-automatic. The PDK has proven itself to be the faster of the two transmissions yet again. Looking at Motor Trend data, a PDK-equipped 2012 911 GTS with 408 hp and weighing 3272 pounds did 0-60 mph in 3.9-seconds. We estimate a more efficient Carrera S 991 with similar power will be slightly quicker.

Click to view GalleryWith the assembly line requiring a complete retooling for 991 production, we have to wonder how big of a gap customers will see in production of cars like the 911 and GT models. It isn't likely Porsche will want to see those nameplates, or customers' checkbooks, sit idle for very long. Porsche may move the development of those models along faster than in previous generations.

The 991 will make its first public appearance at the Frankfurt Auto Show in September and first drives are expected in the fall. New 911s have historically received a cool reception from enthusiasts, and this one might be downright frigid. This will no doubt be the best 911 ever, technically. But will it be the best 911 ever, emotionally?

lowside67
07-02-2011, 01:40 PM
Right so the fact that they have converted it to almost a mid engine, improved fuel efficiency while improving performance, and have for the first time LOST weight in a new model isnt at all impressive?

insomniac
07-02-2011, 01:43 PM
Front end reminds me of the cayman lol
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lowside67
07-02-2011, 01:43 PM
And it's a 991, not a 901.

godwin
07-02-2011, 01:50 PM
Considering 911's engine will always be behind the axle away from the center point; it is physically impossible to covert it to even "almost a mid engine"

Right so the fact that they have converted it to almost a mid engine, improved fuel efficiency while improving performance, and have for the first time LOST weight in a new model isnt at all impressive?

godwin
07-02-2011, 01:51 PM
Porsches Boxster, 911 have always been sharing front ends.

Front end reminds me of the cayman lol
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bloodmack
07-02-2011, 01:54 PM
Why fix something that aint broke? Porsches have always been the reliable supercar and still are because they know whatsup.

vitaminG
07-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Right so the fact that they have converted it to almost a mid engine, improved fuel efficiency while improving performance, and have for the first time LOST weight in a new model isnt at all impressive?

Sorry im not more enthusiastic about it, I do like the car enough to have read the article and taken the time to post it on revscene.

And it's a 991, not a 901.

Please excuse my typo, i did not mean to mislead anyone about it. If i could fix the title i would.

godwin
07-02-2011, 02:09 PM
Because new CAFE rules, new gearboxes that are smaller.. etc etc.

Please define your concept of a supercar.. I won't consider a bread and butter 911 a supercar.

Why fix something that aint broke? Porsches have always been the reliable supercar and still are because they know whatsup.

godwin
07-02-2011, 02:11 PM
For those who are interested more in the 991, Car and Driver's August edition have a more in depth article with interior pics etc.

buddy
07-02-2011, 02:54 PM
http://image.motortrend.com/f/37522365+w786+ar1/2012-porsche-911-front-three-quarter-3.jpg



did the R/F got smack up? or is it just reflection?

bloodmack
07-02-2011, 03:16 PM
Because new CAFE rules, new gearboxes that are smaller.. etc etc.

Please define your concept of a supercar.. I won't consider a bread and butter 911 a supercar.

Try driving one and you'll say different. Your buying more then just 345 bhp when you buy a base model 911.

StylinRed
07-02-2011, 03:53 PM
you know im actually a bit relieved... seeing the camo'd versions of it made me fear it was going to look butt ugly


did the R/F got smack up? or is it just reflection?

if you go to the site there's a gallery and the black one still has tape all over it specially on the fender

lol
07-02-2011, 06:56 PM
That thing looks so hot.. infact they all do.. I first fell in love with Porsche back in 1989.. when I was 7 years old. My dad bought me a Porsche 911 cab slant nose model.. It was like a 930 lol. I was just a kid but couldn't get over how beautiful the lines were on this car - especially the back end. Every since I built that model I have had this loyal passion for Porsche cars (most specifically the 911).

I love how Porsche has kept its word over the decades. They are loyal and confident in their design. You don't get a totally different car every 4 yrs out of the Porsche factory like other manufacturers. Porsche customers know what they are buying because they make subtle improvements based on the previous generation. So if you think about it, every generation has been perfected from the last and today this is without a doubt the best and most advanced 911 to date.

bcrdukes
07-02-2011, 08:26 PM
Let's hope VAG stays out of Porsche's business. :o

325isMSPORT
07-02-2011, 08:50 PM
looks like any other 911..

donjalapeno
07-02-2011, 08:53 PM
Why fix something that aint broke? Porsches have always been the reliable supercar and still are because they know whatsup.

i went to germany in the past month and its crazy how many people use there porsches as DD's...and im not talking about caymans, boxters or anything like that im talking 911 turbos and higher.

godwin
07-02-2011, 09:37 PM
I had a 993 C4 as a DD over in Ontario and put more than 40k in it as a DD over 2 years. Slap on winter tires in after thanksgiving and swap back when the summer comes you are good to go. It is time before PSM etc. The only driver's aid was the ABS.

That's why I asked before please define what's your definition of a supercar.. in my book, 911 doesn't quite qualify for one.

Try driving one and you'll say different. Your buying more then just 345 bhp when you buy a base model 911.

CharlieH
07-02-2011, 09:41 PM
i went to germany in the past month and its crazy how many people use there porsches as DD's...and im not talking about caymans, boxters or anything like that im talking 911 turbos and higher.

isn't the point of a porsche supposed to be that it's a pure bred sports car that you can DD? aside from the gt3/rs and cgt i don't see any reason it'd be crazy to drive a porsche everyday.

StylinRed
07-03-2011, 12:41 AM
i went to germany in the past month and its crazy how many people use there porsches as DD's...and im not talking about caymans, boxters or anything like that im talking 911 turbos and higher.

they're trying to get that message across here now too
their new commercial involves a lady using a 911 as a DD to run errands and pick up her kids and speed isn't a msg involved in the adverts
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Santofu
07-03-2011, 12:48 AM
A teacher at my school drive a Porsche everyday... i think it was cayman or 911...

Boostslut
07-03-2011, 02:22 AM
A teacher at my school drive a Porsche everyday... i think it was cayman or 911...

Waat? Wow man no way! That's so crazy! Unreal..

Z3guy
07-03-2011, 11:14 AM
Because new CAFE rules, new gearboxes that are smaller.. etc etc.

Please define your concept of a supercar.. I won't consider a bread and butter 911 a supercar.

maybe not a base 911, but the GT3RS and GT2RS are everyday supercars

Santofu
07-03-2011, 11:31 AM
Waat? Wow man no way! That's so crazy! Unreal..

Did I mention it is a high school teacher? :fullofwin: but he never parks in the staff lot... only on the street where he won't get car dings XD

CharlieH
07-03-2011, 04:22 PM
Waat? Wow man no way! That's so crazy! Unreal..

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1831341&stc=1&d=1242858412

Rich Sandor
07-03-2011, 04:55 PM
there are 911s that are supercars, and there are 911s that aren't.

but they are all awesome, even the shitty ones.

Marco911
07-03-2011, 06:57 PM
I use my 911 turbo as a DD. Shitty gas mileage. But perhaps that's my fault for regularly hitting 100 mph on my commute.

Rich Sandor
07-03-2011, 08:09 PM
when did you upgrade from the 996c4s?

Marco911
07-04-2011, 12:56 AM
^^10 mts ago. I still have the C4S though.

TomBox_N
07-04-2011, 06:56 AM
Appreciation for the 911 comes with age. I remember 5 years ago I thought all Porsches r ugly. Now I think they're really elegant and beautiful.
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Z3guy
07-04-2011, 06:58 AM
I personally like the timeless design of a 911, but the way they drive is what makes them so special......

death_blossom
07-04-2011, 07:07 AM
a nice design change, but this new 911 resemble the Cayman a little too much.

Rich Sandor
07-04-2011, 09:05 AM
It always takes me about a year to warm up to the newest generation of 911. I didn't like the 996 when it came out, nor the 997.. now I think they are the cleanest of the 911s.

The bigger issue for me is that the frames are so much stiffer and stronger in the newer cars. As much as I love the older 911s as well, the newer ones are just better in every objective measurable way.

SumAznGuy
07-04-2011, 10:49 AM
Just watching the way the orange GT3RS danced out at the autoX on saturday was awesome. Of course it helped having a really good driver, but equally a really good car.

rawr
07-04-2011, 03:49 PM
there are 911s that are supercars, and there are 911s that aren't.

but they are all awesome, even the shitty ones.

no such thing as a shitty 911 :fullofwin:

lowside67
07-04-2011, 04:40 PM
I sort of see 911s as being like communists... in theory they should all be equally special, but in practicality some end up being much more equal than others... :D

Death2Theft
07-04-2011, 09:17 PM
YouTube - ‪Nissan GT-R Targets Porsche...Again...With New Guerrilla Campaign‬‏

lol
07-04-2011, 09:44 PM
that video was fucking retarded.

AB_Zero
07-04-2011, 10:45 PM
7 speed manual tranny...:)

JapaDog
07-04-2011, 11:48 PM
there are a few pretty big changes that hit the porsche forums, members been having quite a big of mix feeling on the new porsche 991 platform.

the two major changes apart from the actual 6 speed manual transmission with an extra overdrive gear making a 7 speed manual transmission:

1. electric steering (the old one was hydralic)
2. No more physical hand brake lever, they are now using the audi style button for handbrake.

general consensus about the changes are that

1. members and multiple magazines all worry that the newly introduced electric steering would ruin the steering feel that porsche has always been famous for.

2. Geniunely pissed at having no actual handbrake (LOL). this move is seen by some members that the 911 is officially entering the sport GT league and is no longer a pure sport car, which luxury and comfort is of a higher priority than going fast.

There will also be a hybrid version, it will be debuted in the mid 991 model which is also aka 991.2 in 2016

Good sides of the story are,

- a more cayman-like driving experience, meaning more neutral instead of rear-biased (effectively reducing the tendency of throttle lift oversteering)
- 25% better in gas mileage than the current 997.2 version
- lighter
- magnetic engine mount (already used in the 997 turbo / GT3)

Rich Sandor
07-05-2011, 07:45 PM
I can't think of a Porsche that was worse than the model before.

People trash the 996 that came after the 993, but in reality it's a better car than the 993 in every objective way. (except maybe interior finish) I've driven, raced, and worked on both.

I do believe that the new one will be better, at the end of the day, even if it takes time to acclimatize to it.

And FYI that whole throttle-lift-oversteer is such a non-issue. I don't drive a 964 or 996 around a race track any different than I would a corvette. Sure it feels a little different in how it rotates when you turn in but tires and suspension and alignment make a bigger difference than whether or not it's front engine or rear engine or mid engine.

It will be a better car all around and as long as it keeps pushing 996 prices down so I can afford to buy one, i'll be happy. :)

wstce92
07-05-2011, 10:42 PM
...
2. No more physical hand brake lever, they are now using the audi style button for handbrake.

...

Personal preference, but I hate electronic handbrakes, I'm sad that that's the direction cars are going towards

JapaDog
07-06-2011, 02:51 AM
Spot on Rich for filling the info. Perhaps I should say that, after the 996 generation, the throttle lift oversteering has almost been completely cured. I guess what people commonly refer to as throttle lift oversteering in the 996 and 997 is mis-perception of rear biased weight distribution~~

Rich Sandor
07-06-2011, 05:35 AM
it was already cured in 1989 in the 964 generation.

any of the earlier cars are way more prone to getting sideways if you lift after turning in... and if you lift during a slide they would almost always rotate into a spin.

vitaminG
07-06-2011, 11:21 AM
It wouldve been cool if they put in a dog leg.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/07/medium_porsche_7spd.jpg

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/07/medium_porsche_7spd_layout.jpg

murd0c
07-06-2011, 11:33 AM
does it have a turbo? :troll:

Phat_R
07-06-2011, 11:59 AM
http://image.motortrend.com/f/32049605+w786+ar1/2012-porsche-911-front-three-quarter-in-motion-3.jpg

Wow. That looks amazing. Me likey!

!Aznboi128
07-06-2011, 12:10 PM
sorry have to post this from goodwood fest

GT3 RS 400
http://www.blogcdn.com/ca.autoblog.com/media/2011/07/454333mje6130-1309912471.jpg

fucking beautiful

q0192837465
07-06-2011, 12:55 PM
One day I'm gonna get a yellow turbo, my dream since I was 10

rawr
07-06-2011, 04:26 PM
http://www.pbase.com/jeffdoble/image/71551340.jpg

I'd honestly shell out the dough to get one of these over modern 911s though.

Leopold Stotch
07-08-2011, 08:57 AM
I actually quite like that front bumper.
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LiquidTurbo
07-08-2011, 09:04 AM
Not overly impressed, 7-speed manual is the only really cool part. Amazing theyve kept it looking more or less the same for 50 years.


Lol. They didn't build the car to impress you.

vitaminG
07-08-2011, 12:16 PM
Lol. They didn't build the car to impress you.

Its a great car there is just nothing radical that really stood out and impressed me.

Prosche fans get butthurt quite easily.

lol
07-08-2011, 01:40 PM
A 911 isn't meant to look radical. The 911 has remained traditional in styling.

If you want radical looking buy an R8 or a 458... or a Carrera GT.

BeefCake4000
08-07-2011, 08:25 PM
Undisguised 2012 Porsche 911 caught in Germany: Video — Autoblog Canada (http://ca.autoblog.com/2011/08/07/undisguised-2012-porsche-911-caught-in-germany-video/)

BeefCake4000
08-17-2011, 09:48 AM
Official 2012 Porsche 911 images spill onto the internet — Autoblog Canada (http://ca.autoblog.com/2011/08/17/official-2012-porsche-911-images-spill-onto-the-internet/)

ruthless
08-17-2011, 12:04 PM
For the Lazy:
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/08/xlarge_2012_911_top.jpghttp://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/08/xlarge_2013_porsche_911_3.jpg
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/08/xlarge_2013_porsche_911_1.jpghttp://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/08/xlarge_2013_porsche_911_2.jpg
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/08/xlarge_2013_porsche_911_4.jpghttp://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/08/xlarge_2013_porsche_911_7.jpg
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/08/xlarge_2013_porsche_911_6.jpg

rawr
08-17-2011, 05:09 PM
It's ass looks unimpressed.

impactX
08-23-2011, 04:52 AM
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/08/xlarge_2013_porsche_911_3.jpg

http://www.ponychan.net/chan/fic/src/130534017157.jpg

sonick
08-23-2011, 07:52 AM
It wouldve been cool if they put in a dog leg.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/07/medium_porsche_7spd.jpg

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2011/07/medium_porsche_7spd_layout.jpg

Wouldn't dog-leg have 1st in the bottom-left? That's just a standard 7-spd gear layout that you've posted.

http://k.min.us/ibzHqQkYw.jpg

shenmecar
08-23-2011, 07:56 AM
Wouldn't dog-leg have 1st in the bottom-left? That's just a standard 7-spd gear layout that you've posted.

http://k.min.us/ibzHqQkYw.jpg

Yes, he said it "Would've been cool", not that it has dog-leg

sonick
08-23-2011, 07:58 AM
Ohh, thought he used that as an example of a 7spd dogleg. Mah baaaad.

ilvtofu
08-23-2011, 09:00 AM
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqe41aZl0B1qcvkxao1_500.jpg

rumours of a real targa instead of a glass roof? lol

european
08-23-2011, 02:29 PM
I like it, I still want an NSX but I like it! They also have some pretty sweet photos.

vitaminG
08-23-2011, 05:20 PM
Yes, he said it "Would've been cool", not that it has dog-leg

im not sure what i meant to do, your pic is def a dogleg though and they shoulda done it!

hillmar
08-23-2011, 07:19 PM
Are porsche and VW running the same design team??!! Looking like the porsche beetle is creeping ever so closely to the look of the porsche?!
Things (http://thingstm.net/posts/2011/4/18/2012-porsche-beetle-wait-what.html)

vyrospec
08-24-2011, 09:56 AM
7 speed gearbox, perfect :joy:

BeefCake4000
08-27-2011, 11:27 PM
New Porsche 911 Carrera - Teaser - YouTube

c3m
08-29-2011, 04:11 PM
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/08/porsche-911-seven-speed-1314656979.jpg

This is suppose to be the knob for the 7-speed manual in the new 911

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/29/a-closer-look-at-the-porsche-seven-speed-manual-shift-pattern/

jpark
08-29-2011, 06:08 PM
i wonder how often you have to shift

BeefCake4000
11-23-2011, 02:08 AM
2012 Porsche 991 Chris Harris Full Review- evo exclusive - YouTube