[Pally777]

Immigrant drivers safer than long-term residents - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/07/06/driving-immigrants-crashes.html)

Recent immigrants seem to be steadier behind the wheel than long-term residents, researchers have found.

Some people might presume that many new Canadians are unsafe and accident-prone drivers, dealing as they do with unfamiliar roads and customs, along with extreme weather conditions. That wasn't the case in a decade-long study.

Researchers tracked almost one million recent immigrants to Ontario and compared their involvement as drivers in serious road crashes compared to long-time residents of the province, matching each subject in the two groups by age, gender, living location and economic status. Recent immigrants appeared to be safer drivers than long-term residents of Ontario, an eight-year study suggests.Recent immigrants appeared to be safer drivers than long-term residents of Ontario, an eight-year study suggests. J.P. Moczulski/CP

More than 10,000 crashes occurred during the study period. After analyzing hospital and other records, the researchers determined that immigrant drivers — the highest proportions from China and India — were 40 to 50 per cent less likely than long-term residents to be driving a vehicle involved in a bad smash-up.

"These findings suggest that contrary to popular opinion, recent immigrants are less prone to be drivers in a serious crash," said lead investigator Dr. Donald Redelmeier, an internal medicine specialist at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre who is often on call in the Toronto trauma centre's emergency department.

"And perhaps one-third of the total 5,000 hospital admissions for road trauma in Ontario each year might be prevented if long-term residents changed their behaviour to match recent immigrants."

In fact, Redelmeier and colleagues calculated, if long-term residents had the same accident risk profile as recent immigrants, that would have meant about 49 lives saved, 1,000 fewer patients admitted to a critical care unit, a reduction of 2,000 surgeries and 30,000 fewer days in hospital.

"So we're not looking at violations of [driving] etiquette," he said. "We're looking at serious crashes that end you up in the emergency department and hospitalized."
Cautious drivers

The study, published in the journal Accident Analysis and Prevention, found immigrant drivers' comparative risk of being in a nasty collision was lowest in the initial years following arrival, but still persisted beyond the fifth and sixth years of the eight years each person was tracked.

"But at no point did we find the opposite contrary pattern," said Redelmeier. "At every year, recent immigrants appeared to be safer drivers."

While other studies have shown that recent immigrants are less likely to own a car, have shorter daily commutes and tend to use more public transportation compared to long-term residents, those differences are not nearly large enough to account for a 40 to 50 per cent reduction in crashes, he noted.

There could be several factors that explain why new Canadians seem to be more solid drivers:

They may travel shorter distances at slower speeds and with greater caution.
Bad drivers could be indirectly screened out by immigration policies that select for higher education and income levels.
Lack of local driving experience might be accompanied by a sense of trepidation.

"If you're a newcomer to the region, you're alert and you're not going to take unnecessary risks and you certainly do not want to get into trouble with the local enforcement agencies," offered Redelmeier. Contrast that with many long-time residents, who may have a false sense of security and be somewhat slack about safety precautions after driving the same roads for many years.

But what about accidents involving pedestrians?

That was one finding where new Canadians didn't appear to have an edge, he said.

"When it comes to crossing the road by foot, they are no better or no worse than the rest of us."

Hope this isn't a repost, but I found this hard to believe.

[Glove]

big difference between c-lai and europian impatience,

both are immigrants, but only one causes crashes and traffic jams

[freakshow]

Does this mean I can get a discount on my insurance?

[R-U-Retarded?]

I dont find this hard to believe. I've been saying this for quite some time now. Although it may not reflect driving etiquette such as signaling,cutting in, leaving space, etc; when i see aftermath of collisions, majority of the time its not asians. Asians are usually good at hitting their cars at poles, parked cars, curbs, etc.

Even though this study is not comparing asians vs caucasians directly, i think its safe to say its related.

And also i guess if one is a long-term resident, your alertness will probably decrease since its always the same route. like how driving manual becomes second-nature with experience.

[Qmx323]

Less prone to be involved in a serious crash

Hella more prone to be involved in shit like fender benders and parking lot bumps

[Selanne_200]

Not to mention the fact that even though they may not be invovled in a smash-up, it doesn't mean they didn't cause the crash. I see so many new immigrants driver driving well below the speed limit in the city/hwy that it frustrates the drivers behind them thus maybe causing more undesirable behaviours like lane changing, tail gating and such

[ecchiecchi]

Not to mention the fact that even though they may not be invovled in a smash-up, it doesn't mean they didn't cause the crash. I see so many new immigrants driver driving well below the speed limit in the city/hwy that it frustrates the drivers behind them thus maybe causing more undesirable behaviours like lane changing, tail gating and such

Lol while it's true that it can likely happen that way you described it- being frustrated and doing stupid dangerous actions is still the fault of the person, not the person slowly driving infront of him.

[TomBox_N]

I find my daily commute to be quite interesting. I drive at 80 in the slow lane but most people follow me at 80 until 1 brave soul decided to pass me. Then the floodgate opens and everyone is blowing pass me at 100.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[StylinRed]

this just confirms that there are bullshit "research reports" ;)

[Lomac]

Two things this report failed to mention: The ratio of recent immigrants to long term citizens in the population, and fender benders. It's like saying two white citizens in Langley caused serious accidents versus one new Korean immigrant. Yes, one group caused more accidents but how many recent immigrants live in Langley compared to the long term group?
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[dbaz]

This report completely depends on what the person/s determined a new immigrant and long term residents are. The could have decided 5+years was long term or if they are stupid 2-3years. I'd rather see a report on how many c-lais cause accidents compared to others :troll:

[q0192837465]

I still think the biggest reason for Richmond's reputation is that c-lais learn to drive in their 40s-50s. You simply can't teach an old dog new tricks. I have no problem with the uncle's driving.

[Grandmaster TSE]

if they did the research in BC it might be a different result haha

[taylor192]

The survey specifically stays away from driving etiquette - which is what we all mean when we say "bad drivers".

I don't doubt the survey, as people who are better at driving etiquette tend to drive faster, and when a mistake occurs the consequences are worse.

I don't know how one would measure driving etiquette, other than to have police officers hand out a ticket called "you suck at driving". For instance, this little old woman this morning could not turn right onto Oak from 33rd. Oak has 3 lanes, the right lane was absolutely free, yet she waited until all 3 lanes were free before turning - all while adjusting her stupid sun hat and driving gloves. How do you measure that level of incompetence?

[gars]

In a way, I think the view we have towards C-Lai's is a little over-hyped... I see old white men/women who drive horribly, but would think nothing of it, because they're old. But as soon as someone sees an older chinese lady who does the same thing, the "those stupid c-lais" rants start. I agree that there are a lot of bad chinese lady drivers out there, but they stand out because they're usually driving a lot of luxury cars. A bad driver driving a shitbox doesn't get the same attention.

[falcon]

I don't care how many people they tested and checked, I don't believe it.

[Ikkaku]

The ones we see on the road who can't drive at all are the ones that are likely chauffeured in HK/China/TW. There are a lot of amazing female drivers over there, and they'd take tight parking spaces that people here wouldn't even attempt.

For example, at our family friends apartment, their parking garage requires you to drive your car into a small slot which acts as an elevator. I almost shat myself seeing how little room there is around the car while inside the elevator.

[Rdk1]

C-Lais in richmond are ridiculously aggressive and dangerous as well.

they'll cut you off, and then proceed to drive at 40kph.

Or stop in the middle of the intersection even though the light turned red. they might not be involved in the crash, but if say a person who saw green light rear ends the person in front who stopped because the C-lai was parked in the middle of the intersection, they should still be at fault.

[Culverin]

In a way, I think the view we have towards C-Lai's is a little over-hyped...
I agree that there are a lot of bad chinese lady drivers out there, but they stand out because they're usually driving a lot of luxury cars. A bad driver driving a shitbox doesn't get the same attention.

I think the true culprit are asian female drivers. C-lais are just the easy target because they have cars they don't deserve. But no, I don't think it's over-hyped by much. Here's a few examples of how the women in my life have done on the road:

My step-mom isn't even c-lai material. She's been here since university.
But she's still asian and can't drive worth crap. On the road, she drives like she knows what she's doing, but is slow to make decisions. In the parking lot, it's a different story altogether. Numerous scrapes and dents to her cars over the years. It's amazing really, she's never been involved in a serious accident,

My aunt? Totaled her car. Asian. Behaves like an immigrant even though she's been here for 30 years. She's scares the living crap out of me whenever she drives. Makes some really bad judgement calls.

Friend #1
4 accidents, 2 months. Not sure what happened to her car. Might have been written off? Her parents have banned her from driving. Yes, also asian and a girl.

Friend #2
A couple fender benders, can't driver worth crap. Totaled her car. Once again, asian girl.

Friend #3
Also totaled her car. I don't she's a horrible driver, but still definitely not good. She grew up here playing video games. I guess why she's the best driver out of the lot.


I'm sure there's a couple more that's not coming to mind right now. But aside from that. I only know 1 guy that drives crazy reckless and 1 guy that drives like a granny. I'd say the rest of them drive pretty well.


So asian girls being bad drivers a stereotype? Not in my life.
For me, it's a reality.

[Qmx323]

For example, at our family friends apartment, their parking garage requires you to drive your car into a small slot which acts as an elevator. I almost shat myself seeing how little room there is around the car while inside the elevator.

oh man i loved those parking spots

[asahai69]

lol everyone is probably getting into accidents trying to avoid the immigrant drivers

[hirevtuner]

immigrant drivers are driving the corollas and camrys and driving 40 km/h
that's why

[lgman]

what about the icbc scam back in the day where they were selling licenses to new immigrants? Do those people count as well?

anyways I think its those who can't drive defined to me as total ignorance of distances between cars, No signalling whatsoever of direction, Crawling or Speeding through right of ways/yields, no clue what 4 way stops is, Tail gate/speeding in school zones are the ones I can't stand the most. They mess with everyone that is trying to get from A-B in one piece. I have no sympathy when those types march in with +150% surcharge and whine and bitch about high insurance rates. NONE.

[1exotic]

immigrant drivers are driving the corollas and camrys and driving 40 km/h
that's why

YEAH, EXACTLY.

ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HOG THE LEFT LANE.


GET THE FUCK OUT MY WAY, I WILL TAILGATE YOUR SHIT.

[shenmecar]

immigrant drivers are driving the corollas and camrys and driving 40 km/h
that's why

Immigrant drivers become long term residents eventually, and then they will be less conscious, be more ballsy and drive 45kmh and have a massive accident.

[twitchyzero]

a bunch of richmond c-lai's probably got together and said 'hey rets not made ourselfs rook bad' and bribed these researchers

[Marco911]

C-Lai driving Mercedes Benz and causing collisions all around her is not going to be involved in a "serious: accident herself. It's interesting that the whole study is geared toward "serious" accidents, rather than simply counting the number of accidents they're involved in.

I think if the latter were the case, it would tell a different story, because recent immigrants know they are bad drivers and slow down as a result (thus getting involved in less serious crashes.)

[2damaxmr2]

ROR

[Culverin]

C-Lai driving Mercedes Benz and causing collisions all around her is not going to be involved in a "serious: accident herself. It's interesting that the whole study is geared toward "serious" accidents, rather than simply counting the number of accidents they're involved in.

I think if the latter were the case, it would tell a different story, because recent immigrants know they are bad drivers and slow down as a result (thus getting involved in less serious crashes.)

Uh yeah, c-lai don't usually speed that much, thus the numerous accidents they are involved in don't actually end up serious. More like braking too late, changing lanes without signaling or shoulder checking. Cutting people off or hitting parked cars. All of those are low speed accidents. Nobody's going to the hospital from them. But it doesn't mean they are few and far between either.

Also, I'd love to hear the response from a c-lai. But I don't think there are any on RS. :p

[goo3]

Two things this report failed to mention: The ratio of recent immigrants to long term citizens in the population, and fender benders. It's like saying two white citizens in Langley caused serious accidents versus one new Korean immigrant. Yes, one group caused more accidents but how many recent immigrants live in Langley compared to the long term group?
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Yeah, so I DL'd it. It's done by ratio - per 100000. And long term resident is > 10 yrs.

C-Lai driving Mercedes Benz and causing collisions all around her is not going to be involved in a "serious: accident herself. It's interesting that the whole study is geared toward "serious" accidents, rather than simply counting the number of accidents they're involved in.

I think if the latter were the case, it would tell a different story, because recent immigrants know they are bad drivers and slow down as a result (thus getting involved in less serious crashes.)

They matched their sample with hospital records. I guess you could match it to insurance claims, but too many things can mess up those numbers. Ppl aren't gonna skip the hospital if they're seriously injured.

[gars]

A University of Michigan study of 6.5 million car crashes will undoubtedly be the source of many tense discussions around the kitchen table if not Vegas comedy riffs, finding that an inordinate number of accidents happen when both drivers are women.

Insert your own tired women-are-bad-drivers comment here. And if you post this story on your Facebook page, get ready for a commenta-palooza.

Michael Sivak, the study's principal author and a research professor who studies human factors in car accidents, is hesitant to come out and say women are worse drivers than men. But since men drive more miles every day than women, the neighborhood sexist will have a field day with this little bit of data.

Using the General Estimate System data from a nationally representative sample of police-reported crashes, the researchers expected to find that male-to-male crashes would account for 36.2% of accidents, female-to-female would make up 15.8% and male-to-female would make up 48% of crashes.

Instead, they found female-to-female accidents made up 20.5% of all crashes, much higher than expected. Male-to-male crashes were lower than expected, at 31.9%, and male-to-female crashes were 47.6%.

Why the discrepancy? The study doesn't offer any hard reasons. Women and men may have different experiences with different driving scenarios, have different abilities to handle those scenarios, and may feel like there are different expectations on their behavior.

It's essentially a nature vs. nurture argument, saying gender stereotypes dominate driving behavior: In other words, men do most of the driving, and women, who ride along as passengers, are less experienced or confident -- thus prone to wrecks.

But there could be another reason, the researchers say, so they're not ruling out any possibilities.

Intersections are particularly troublesome for women: They're often t-boned on the driver's side while trying to make a left turn, or are hit on the passenger side while trying to make a right-hand turn, the research shows.

Those crashes could be caused by height differences, the study says, because women tend to be shorter than men and have a harder time seeing out the windows. This issue is becoming worse, not better, with modern cars, as designers have been creating higher in-car "belt-lines," the height of the door relative to the driver before the window glass begins.

But besides being shorter, women may also have some brain differences that work against them. Some studies show men are better able to perceive time and speed and can more easily rotate 3-D figures in their brains, skills which are helpful enough to overcome other risky behaviors behind the wheel.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, it's tough to get the usual third party experts to weigh in on this study. Consumer Reports said it would pass on AOL Autos request for comment. Ford Motor Co., whose executive in charge of environmental and safety engineering is a woman, also passed on commenting.

A Ford spokesman did say that women order safety options on their cars at a much higher rate than men. Turns out that's a wise decision.

Every academic study, even those peer reviewed, has supporters and detractors.

Rather than looking at the national Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS)-- which most safety advocates use because it is based on police-reported data from the most severe and most documented kinds of crashes, those that resulted in a death -- it uses the National Household Travel Survey for its mileage counts. That survey is conducted every decade or so, and asks drivers to keep a diary of their travel, which could be easily fudged. It also looks at a sampling of accident data from police records, which is not as comprehensive as the fatality database.

Plus, it doesn't mention the fact that women are more likely to be driving with children, who are among the biggest distractions in a car.

Sivak's research contradicts other studies like one in Britain that showed men take more risks and drive more powerful cars. That study also showed that although women also have their fair share of crashes, those accidents often happen at slower speeds, so they tend to be less severe.


Bottom Line: The University of Michigan study shows that crashes involving female drivers running into female drivers is higher than expected given the number of miles women drive versus men. While the study is interesting, and gives chauvinists and comedians fresh fodder to bash women drivers, there is plenty of room to challenge the study's validity.

Let The Arguments Fly: Study Shows Women More Likely To Cause Traffic Accidents (http://autos.aol.com/article/women-worse-drivers/)

[TVD]

This happened at 1st avenue marketplace recently. Instantly thought of this thread. :D


http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnqr8gQZvF1qmrdqto1_500.jpg

[Culverin]

Oh hey, that's the bbq place. That bbq place is good. I haven't found any better in East Van (if you do please let me know).