[El Bastardo]

Some 1,800 people who got Canadian citizenship fraudulently will be tracked down and deported in an unprecedented sweep, the immigration minister said.

Minister Jason Kenney told reporters in Vancouver federal immigration investigators and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police had identified the 1,800 suspects who had entered the country as phony refugees, or by using human smugglers or illicit immigration consultants, Postmedia News reported.

"For those who simply touch down and try to get a Canadian passport as a ... passport of convenience, who don't pay our taxes but who do consume our social benefits, I think that's dishonorable," he said.

...

After the suspects are notified they are losing their citizenship, they have the right to appeal the ruling in federal court. That can take years, during which time they retain citizenship rights and benefits, QMI said.


Canada to strip 1,800 of citizenship - UPI.com (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/07/20/Canada-to-strip-1800-of-citizenship/UPI-90311311164621/?spt=hs&or=tn)

[Supafly]

Thank fucking god. They should have been doing 20yrs ago...when people starting marrying for money and immigration.

[StylinRed]

Since Canada was founded in 1867, it has only repealed the citizenship of 67 people, the QMI Agency reported.



wow cons...i guess you could say this move was very un-canadian

[Supafly]

I think the next thing they should do is to have all immigrants speak some fucking english before they are allowed to get their citizenship.

[murd0c]

I think the next thing they should do is to have all immigrants speak some fucking english before they are allowed to get their citizenship.

This is something I agree with. Or at least try to speak english not dropping this no english bs
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[TheNewGirl]

I think the next thing they should do is to have all immigrants speak some fucking english before they are allowed to get their citizenship.

Theoretically they have to have some fluency in English or French to take the citizenship test as adults (I think the process is less rigorous for children but they also get ESL in school and tend to get higher fluency rates any how).

But that doesn't apply to landed immigrants - they don't need to take any tests. Many people confuse the two.

[Jsunu]

Theoretically they have to have some fluency in English or French to take the citizenship test as adults (I think the process is less rigorous for children but they also get ESL in school and tend to get higher fluency rates any how).

But that doesn't apply to landed immigrants - they don't need to take any tests. Many people confuse the two.

I always tend to confused the two lol.

The problem is that if you are living in a country, at least try to learn the language in order to communicate with the majority of the populace. Instead, it is worse where in Richmond I am looked down upon since I don't speak Chinese or I am expected to know chinese in order to communicate with staff/people etc.

[anti_rice]

I always tend to confused the two lol.

The problem is that if you are living in a country, at least try to learn the language in order to communicate with the majority of the populace. Instead, it is worse where in Richmond I am looked down upon since I don't speak Chinese or I am expected to know chinese in order to communicate with staff/people etc.

I experience this almost every time i go to an asian cafe and especially bubble tea places. I'm trying to order a simple drink in english and the server doesn't understand what i'm trying to order. They greet you in some form of chinese and they come and take your order in chinese as well. when you speak to them in english they look uncomfortable and nervous and then you end up having to point to your order.

Welcome to Canada, speak a little bit of english, at least try to learn. if not please go home.

[Matlock]

Makes sense.

What about people over seas? There are tons of people just squatting on a Canadian citizenship without even bothering to come back and visit Canada for years or pay any form of taxes. As soon as trouble comes or a natural disaster may occur in whatever country they prefer to live in Canada becomes responsible for them? Wtf
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[Supafly]

As soon as trouble comes or a natural disaster may occur in whatever country they prefer to live in Canada becomes responsible for them? Wtf
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a little off-topic....

what really bugs the shit outta me lastnight was how africa is having a huge issue with famine, and Canada has donated 22 million dollars to support them and they're expected to double the amount of funds by the end of the year....jesus christ, shouldn't we feed the kids in our own backyard before we sluff off money to another country to feed their young and dying? what have they done to help us??!!!....for god sakes, the canadian gov't is fucked up sometimes...

Im just a little pissed off that my tax money is going to some country on the otherside of the world that is currupt as fuck making some other no-name asshole richer. If you're gonna take my tax dollars and feed children; atleast feed the children in our own fucking country.

[hotjoint]

about fuckin time!

[TheNewGirl]

Makes sense.

What about people over seas? There are tons of people just squatting on a Canadian citizenship without even bothering to come back and visit Canada for years or pay any form of taxes. As soon as trouble comes or a natural disaster may occur in whatever country they prefer to live in Canada becomes responsible for them? Wtf
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They have changed the rules so that people who have citizenship through birth but do have not lived in the country can no longer pass citizenship onto their children. But you can't take it from people who have it by right of birth.

So now if I left the country and never came back, I would always be a citizen, any children I had would inherit my citizenship but unless they came back to Canada THEIR children no longer could.

Previously you could have chains of Canadian citizens who had never set foot in the country cause it could be inherited indefinitely.

[TheNewGirl]

a little off-topic....

what really bugs the shit outta me lastnight was how africa is having a huge issue with famine, and Canada has donated 22 million dollars to support them and they're expected to double the amount of funds by the end of the year....jesus christ, shouldn't we feed the kids in our own backyard before we sluff off money to another country to feed their young and dying? what have they done to help us??!!!....for god sakes, the canadian gov't is fucked up sometimes...

Im just a little pissed off that my tax money is going to some country on the otherside of the world that is currupt as fuck making some other no-name asshole richer. If you're gonna take my tax dollars and feed children; atleast feed the children in our own fucking country.

This is how I feel about a lot of our military spending.

Clean up your own bloody back yard before you start meddling in other countries.

[TouringTeg]

a little off-topic....

what really bugs the shit outta me lastnight was how africa is having a huge issue with famine, and Canada has donated 22 million dollars to support them and they're expected to double the amount of funds by the end of the year....jesus christ, shouldn't we feed the kids in our own backyard before we sluff off money to another country to feed their young and dying? what have they done to help us??!!!....for god sakes, the canadian gov't is fucked up sometimes...

Im just a little pissed off that my tax money is going to some country on the otherside of the world that is currupt as fuck making some other no-name asshole richer. If you're gonna take my tax dollars and feed children; atleast feed the children in our own fucking country.

Couldn't agree more. I was thinking the exact same thing while Somalian Canadians complained that the government should step up and double the amount of money donated. This is our tax dollars.

[Qmx323]

Too bad you can't sue for not being served in English in Richmond...

would have a fuckin' field day

[tool001]

a little off-topic....

what really bugs the shit outta me lastnight was how africa is having a huge issue with famine, and Canada has donated 22 million dollars to support them and they're expected to double the amount of funds by the end of the year....jesus christ, shouldn't we feed the kids in our own backyard before we sluff off money to another country to feed their young and dying? what have they done to help us??!!!....for god sakes, the canadian gov't is fucked up sometimes...

Im just a little pissed off that my tax money is going to some country on the otherside of the world that is currupt as fuck making some other no-name asshole richer. If you're gonna take my tax dollars and feed children; atleast feed the children in our own fucking country.

i might get failed for this , but

Canada as a developed nation has responsiblities around the world. $ is set aside for this. Its the same as saying "why donate money to japan during earthquake"

People in canada are not dying because of hunger like in Africa. Even countries like China,india and other developing nations donate to these causes

[TheNewGirl]

People in canada are not dying because of hunger like in Africa. Even countries like China,india and other developing nations donate to these causes


This is so far from true it's not funny.
Our child poverty rate here in Canada is going up (especially in major cities). Our food banks are at an all time low in donations. Homelessness is going up. Not down.

We like to pretend we don't have problems like that here but the truth is we do. We just ignore it when we walk down the street and send a few bucks a month off to feed African kids to alleviate the guilt from ignoring it at home.

[tool001]

This is so far from true it's not funny.
.

r u seriously compairing poverty rates/homelessness, child poverty in canada to whats happening in Africa? U know that the un is declareing famine in africa???

im not saying to ignore problems here, but canada has responsiblities on a global level.

[Manic!]

who don't pay our taxes but who do consume our social benefits, I think that's dishonorable," he said.[/url]


So whats the HST. Everyone who buys anything from a can of coke to a house pays taxes.

[TheKingdom2000]

What bubble tea places do you guys go to that they can't take your order? I've probably been to 90% of the bbt places in richmond and I've never really had a problem. All you have to do is point to what you want and you're good to go.

And even if they can't speak english or are very limited the servers in my experiences can recognize the words. Ie. Strawberry banana slush, no pearls. Etc.
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[gars]

So whats the HST. Everyone who buys anything from a can of coke to a house pays taxes.

This is more for people who are overseas, who don't pay any taxes, but in a time of crisis - expects the Canadian Government to extract them from a crisis zone, just because they are Canadian Citizens.

What bubble tea places do you guys go to that they can't take your order? I've probably been to 90% of the bbt places in richmond and I've never really had a problem. All you have to do is point to what you want and you're good to go.

And even if they can't speak english or are very limited the servers in my experiences can recognize the words. Ie. Strawberry banana slush, no pearls. Etc.
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I agree - I don't usually have problems with any place I go to. But honestly, why should other people care that YOU can't order at the place you want to. The business has a right to run it how they want to. If they don't want to hire people who speak english, it's their prerogative. If they lose business because people can't order in english, it's their own fault.

That's like saying - the government should crack down on restaurants with bad service.

[bing]

So whats the HST. Everyone who buys anything from a can of coke to a house pays taxes.

What they mean is that while these people are living away, they are not paying the same level of taxes everyone else pays (year after year) while technically being able to access the same benefits as all other Canadians.

The article also says it is targeting those who are phony refugees, who have used human smugglers or illicit immigration consultants. These are people who probably wouldn't have passed immigration in the first place and shouldn't be here anyways.

[falcon]

How many of you guys are citizens? How many are landed immigrants or have temp residency status? Just out of curiosity.... :troll:

[XplicitLuder]

i have a citizenship, but i got mine when i was like 2.. and i speak very good ingrish :troll:

[LSF22]

^ landed, and I speak little to no chinese

[Ronin]

Born here. I can speak in English and Cantonese, both fluently. If you speak Mandarin very, very slowly to me like I was a 5-year old, I might be able to understand.

If they don't pay taxes, they shouldn't benefit from ours.

Yes, it does seem a tad un-Canadian but it's a change I wouldn't mind. It's also un-Canadian not to contribute to society.

[Manic!]

Born here. I can speak in English and Cantonese, both fluently. If you speak Mandarin very, very slowly to me like I was a 5-year old, I might be able to understand.

If they don't pay taxes, they shouldn't benefit from ours.

Yes, it does seem a tad un-Canadian but it's a change I wouldn't mind. It's also un-Canadian not to contribute to society.

So who are these people that don't pay taxes. Everyone pays taxes one way or another unless there native.

[falcon]

Not people that come and go from the country, using our social services like health care and dental etc. and then fly off to somewhere in EU or USA to live.

[TheNewGirl]

r u seriously compairing poverty rates/homelessness, child poverty in canada to whats happening in Africa? U know that the un is declareing famine in africa???

im not saying to ignore problems here, but canada has responsiblities on a global level.

No I'm not saying they're as global here as they are in Africa.

What I am saying is that we have an obligation to spend money to ensure everyone in our own county has an acceptable standard of living before we give money to Africa. And that's a hard thing for me say, my general instinct is toward humanitarian causes but I think it's morally and financially responsive to tend to your own house FIRST. Canada's currently living off it's credit cards. We don't have the luxury of handing over millions to other countries.

Additionally, I would go on to point out the flaws in the international aid programs as they actually harm a lot of developing nations more than they assist them. The nations become extremely reliant on this form of funding and in many cases it's squandered on administration in the better cases and goes right into the pockets of tyrants in the worst. Rarely does it have it's intended effects with the exception some very targeted programs.

There are more effective means of aiding these nations that are far more cost effective AND helpful then the current methods we use (and often funded via private donors).

Ideally, we would have the option to contribute or not via our income taxes every year. Would you like to give an extra .5% to international aid... check here. (as I understand a lot of people dislike donating to private charities, many of which take up to 90% in administration costs). And you know what... I think a lot of people would do it. And this money could be completely independent of the budget and just automatically form the International Aide budget of it's own.

But just to go and do it when we can't even balance our own books and this is more money we have to BORROW to help these countries out?

I can't justify it when we have Native American kids living in abject poverty. I can't justify it when we can't afford to pay for our own schools? I can't justify it when it's more debt that my own kid is going to inherit.

[Manic!]

Not people that come and go from the country, using our social services like health care and dental etc. and then fly off to somewhere in EU or USA to live.

So they don't eat while here?

[taylor192]

What about people over seas? There are tons of people just squatting on a Canadian citizenship without even bothering to come back and visit Canada for years or pay any form of taxes. As soon as trouble comes or a natural disaster may occur in whatever country they prefer to live in Canada becomes responsible for them? Wtf
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Like all those people in Lebanon who we have spent $100M to evacuate even though they were living there.

Canada needs to change its citizenship laws. If you're not living here, you lose it.

[b92]

stop the chinese from comming. Just fucking tired of god damn richmond chinese mainlanders and especially the c-lai bitches who stand in line at grocery store bitching at the clerk and looking around at ppl expecting to help her over a extra few cents on the receipt!

[k3mps]

what's weird is that my elementary friend moved here in gr7. he stayed with us until gr.9, when he was deported by the government claiming that there was a population crisis.
what pisses me off is that he is British, and he speaks 200% better english than the fobs do.
PLUS he was in line for a citizenship, he and his whole family. and these two fobs that came to my elementary in gr6, are still here to this date (university) who don't speak a word on english.

if there is some sort of immigration thing between the UK and Canada, please correct me if i'm missing anything

[Meowjin]

I experience this almost every time i go to an asian cafe and especially bubble tea places. I'm trying to order a simple drink in english and the server doesn't understand what i'm trying to order. They greet you in some form of chinese and they come and take your order in chinese as well. when you speak to them in english they look uncomfortable and nervous and then you end up having to point to your order.

Welcome to Canada, speak a little bit of english, at least try to learn. if not please go home.

I have this issue and im total gwai-lo, especially since I eat at alot of honger cafe's in richmond.

as with this 1800 citizens thing? Bullshit. These people are citizens like anyone else and they are parts of our everyday community. Basic human rights that canada offers shouldn't be a membership it should be available to anyone.

Sadly people will take advantage of it.

[taylor192]

im not saying to ignore problems here, but canada has responsiblities on a global level.

No we do not. In fact, helping Africa could be the worst thing we could do for them - let me explain.

Do you know about the genocides in Rwanda? Where almost a million people were killed in 3 months? Where the predominantly wealthy tribe was mostly killed, thus why it is falsely called a genocide?

If not, please read about it. Rwanda is a country of 11M in an area the size of Hawaii with few resources. How did it end up this way? Population expands to the size of resources, so everytime we gave them more money and food, the population grew until it hit a breaking point.

Sadly the best thing for many of these Africa countries is depopulation through disasters like famine. Then there'll be less people competing for resources, and maybe one day they'll learn to live within their means rather than abusing handouts.

[Meowjin]

My relatives in greece lives in canada for 10 years paying taxes here before moving back. Even though they no longer pay taxes, I believe they paid enough that if shit hits the fan the government can help evacuate them in times of natural disaster.

And yes they have come back over here since they sold their country to the IMF.

[TheNewGirl]

Taylor we don't often agree but I will agree with you on part of what you said. (Though I'm morally opposed to letting people starve for population control, I'd rather these people's religious leaders would just stop telling them condoms are bad).

I'd also suggest people read about the horrifying shit going on in Zimbabwe and some of the other really poor afrian countries.

In fact just book mark BBC News - Africa (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/africa/) and read it every day.

[Great68]

If not, please read about it. Rwanda is a country of 11M in an area the size of Hawaii with few resources. How did it end up this way?



Their religion plays a huge part in this as well. 56% catholic... And we all know the catholic church's stance on any form of birth control.

[JD¹³]

Taylor and NewGirl, your ignorance is fucking astounding. I know I should expect it from both of you but holy shit.
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[Manic!]

Canada needs to change its citizenship laws. If you're not living here, you lose it.

You really don't like Skinnypup do you?

And what about those Canadians that want to retire to some place warm?

[Great68]

Canada needs to change its citizenship laws. If you're not living here, you lose it.

So what's the threshold to "lose" your citizenship?

1 Year? - So take an extended vacation and you lose your citizenship?
5 Years? - Do a work/education term out of the country and lose your citizenship?

[taylor192]

Taylor and NewGirl, your ignorance is fucking astounding. I know I should expect it from both of you but holy shit.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)
This type of response is expected from you. Name calling with no substance. Useless, keep it to yourself.

[taylor192]

Taylor we don't often agree but I will agree with you on part of what you said. (Though I'm morally opposed to letting people starve for population control, I'd rather these people's religious leaders would just stop telling them condoms are bad).
Condoms aren't the problem, its the subsidies. If you have X kids, you get X dollars. So if you're poor and un/under-employed - what do you do? pump out more kids!

You've read Gladwell, now read Desmond Morris. Isolated tribes have been studied to explain why they don't suffer these same problems. Its because the tribes could never expand beyond their resources, if they did they either starved, or fought with other tribes until numbers were reduced back to the available resources.

We've got to stop fucking with their resources. As bad as it is to see an Africa baby starving on TV, by giving them $$$ you're just creating another mouth to feed.

[taylor192]

So what's the threshold to "lose" your citizenship?

1 Year? - So take an extended vacation and you lose your citizenship?
5 Years? - Do a work/education term out of the country and lose your citizenship?

I understand a system like this will never be perfect, yet here's an example of how it can be abused:

My sisters both live in the US and work. They can work their entire adult lives in the US, never pay a dime of taxes to Canada, then return and use our healthcare system in retirement. Fair? No way.

So an arbitrary system to lose citizenship will punish some, yet the current system is broken and punishes us all.

You really don't like Skinnypup do you?

And what about those Canadians that want to retire to some place warm?
So my cut-and-dry "lose" policy would obviously need more details, yet the current system is broken and needs to be fixed.

[gars]

No we do not. In fact, helping Africa could be the worst thing we could do for them - let me explain.

Do you know about the genocides in Rwanda? Where almost a million people were killed in 3 months? Where the predominantly wealthy tribe was mostly killed, thus why it is falsely called a genocide?

If not, please read about it. Rwanda is a country of 11M in an area the size of Hawaii with few resources. How did it end up this way? Population expands to the size of resources, so everytime we gave them more money and food, the population grew until it hit a breaking point.

I don't understand how you explain it's falsely called a genocide.

As well, there were many factors playing in the strife between the majority Hutus and the Minority Tutsis. Part of it being the Belgians who further added fuel to the fire during the colonial era.

Honestly - the western world plays a huge part in the crap that goes on in Africa. Resources are exploited - so a small percentage will get very rich.

[zz]

Taylor and NewGirl, your ignorance is fucking astounding. I know I should expect it from both of you but holy shit.
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Please elaborate on your conclusions.

[taylor192]

I don't understand how you explain it's falsely called a genocide.

As well, there were many factors playing in the strife between the majority Hutus and the Minority Tutsis. Part of it being the Belgians who further added fuel to the fire during the colonial era.

Honestly - the western world plays a huge part in the crap that goes on in Africa. Resources are exploited - so a small percentage will get very rich.
I left that open to anyone who wants to look it up.

The material I've read state the Tutsis are the wealthier of the 2, and when your country is starved of resources, who are you going to attack? Other Hutus with little? or a Tutsi who may not have much either, yet has more than you?

Ontop of that, of those killed there was a lot of Hutu on Hutu killings, showing it wasn't just Hutu wanting to wipe out Tutsis exclusively.

[Death2Theft]

They go to kelowna or the "sunshine coast"
You really don't like Skinnypup do you?

And what about those Canadians that want to retire to some place warm?

[Great68]

They go to kelowna or the "sunshine coast"

:seriously:

[Manic!]

They go to kelowna or the "sunshine coast"

Yes Canada send all your old and sick people to B.C. our hospitals are empty and waiting for them.

[StylinRed]

its hilarious reading immigrants (or whose parents are immigrants) bitching about other immigrants

[falcon]

So they don't eat while here?

Paying %12 tax on your food, is not the same as me forking out $20,000 of my annual income to taxes AND my $60.50/mo for MSP.

Get your head on straight.

[JD¹³]

Please elaborate on your conclusions.
Like all those people in Lebanon who we have spent $100M to evacuate even though they were living there.

Canada needs to change its citizenship laws. If you're not living here, you lose it.
According to Taylor people that don't live in Canada should lose their citizenship. Really? Where do you draw the line on residency? If someone is out of the country for 6 months, 5 years, or 10 years, where do you draw the line? You can't, which is why a policy like this doesn't exist anywhere with any nation. Millions of people around the globe live, work, vacation, retire, etc for extended periods of time in foreign countries. No country will axe your citizenship and leave you afloat because, well, that would just be wrong. You can renounce your citizenship and take up another, or you can be one of those "live on the land" people if that's your choice but you will never be stripped of it just because you haven't been home enough. Taylor will back peddle and say "Oh situation X, Y and Z are different" and then try to change the topic because he's been caught making a stupid generalization, but that's just what trolls do.

As for our government spending money to evacuate our citizens out of danger zones we should be thankful they can and will do that! Period! Our government would come to the aid of it's foreign based citizens whether it's Lebanon, Germany, Hong Kong, or anywhere else if the situation called for it. Taylor suggests this is a poor use of our resources and tax dollars :rolleyes: These people are Canadian citizens, native born or not we will assist them all the same, because that's what a good country does for it's people.

As for NewGirl, she clearly has no idea what the Department of National Defense does or stands for. Their job is to protect the nation and it's interests both at home and abroad. That includes being part of major international forces (like the UN) that go in and help people who can't help themselves. They do so selflessly because it is the right thing to do. But NewGirl thinks that's all a waste of money. That statement is equivalent to the government's of the world saying "Fuck Europe, let them sort it out" during WWI and WWII because they didn't want to pay for the cost of a war. As I said that is astounding ignorance.

According to these two goofs my family would have been stripped of our citizenship and forced out of jobs because we have lived and worked overseas for many years for a military that we shouldn't waste money on. I guess that's what my parents deserve for going where needed in defense of the country we call home. Nice patriotism guys. If I was the over-sensitive type I'd probably be offended.

The OP posted about people losing their citizenship because it was obtained fraudulently or illegally. This is a good thing, and it shows that our government wants to protect authentic citizens that contribute (mostly) from losing it's true value. If one could obtain citizenship illegally without penalty they might as well get it out of a Crackerjack box.

[gars]

I left that open to anyone who wants to look it up.

The material I've read state the Tutsis are the wealthier of the 2, and when your country is starved of resources, who are you going to attack? Other Hutus with little? or a Tutsi who may not have much either, yet has more than you?

Ontop of that, of those killed there was a lot of Hutu on Hutu killings, showing it wasn't just Hutu wanting to wipe out Tutsis exclusively.

The Tutsi's have held a monarchy in the area which didn't start much earlier than when the Belgiums came during the colonial era. When the Belgiums came, they made it worse by puting the Tusi's in greater power - giving them better jobs, and basically making the Hutu's lower class citizens or slaves.

I believe it was in the 1960's where the Hutu's finally overthrows the gov't, and takes over. There are civil wars, but yes, because of what the Belgiums did, the Tutsis were generally wealthier.

Yes, there was Hutu on Hutu killing - but it was mainly against those who were against the gov't.

[Manic!]

I understand a system like this will never be perfect, yet here's an example of how it can be abused:

My sisters both live in the US and work. They can work their entire adult lives in the US, never pay a dime of taxes to Canada, then return and use our healthcare system in retirement. Fair? No way.





What about people who live in Ontario all there lives and don't pay a single sent to BC's MSP and then come here to retire?

[bing]

The Tutsi's have held a monarchy in the area which didn't start much earlier than when the Belgiums came during the colonial era. When the Belgiums came, they made it worse by puting the Tusi's in greater power - giving them better jobs, and basically making the Hutu's lower class citizens or slaves.

I believe it was in the 1960's where the Hutu's finally overthrows the gov't, and takes over. There are civil wars, but yes, because of what the Belgiums did, the Tutsis were generally wealthier.

Yes, there was Hutu on Hutu killing - but it was mainly against those who were against the gov't.

from the version I read (likely from a leftist stance), colonial history, price of coffee, world bank and imf policies, global interests of Western nations, interests of international aid agencies, and Western attitudes also played a role. The whole colonial thing started with the Germans apparently who instilled their racist ideology by making the taller Tutsi's in charge. Later on it was the Belgians and when the Tutsi's began to campaign for independence, the Belgians shifted their support to the Hutu because they thought they would be easier to control. When clashes broke out, they did little to nothing to stop it, even allowing the Hutu elite to engineer a coup and eventually gain independence.

[quasi]

The part I hate is they appeal from here on our dime. They should be deported right away and if they want to appeal they can do it from their Country of origin.

[Nightwalker]

The part I hate is they appeal from here on our dime. They should be deported right away and if they want to appeal they can do it from their Country of origin.

If an appeal was legitimate, that persons life would be so completely fucked over for no reason if we sent them back without due process.

[quasi]

If an appeal was legitimate, that persons life would be so completely fucked over for no reason if we sent them back without due process.

Same argument is used against the death penalty. Slipery slope but the line has to be drawn somewhere and I think it should be drawn on the side that favors the Canadian taxpayer.

[taylor192]

According to these two goofs my family would have been stripped of our citizenship and forced out of jobs because we have lived and worked overseas for many years for a military that we shouldn't waste money on. I guess that's what my parents deserve for going where needed in defense of the country we call home. Nice patriotism guys. If I was the over-sensitive type I'd probably be offended.
You are overly sensitive and an idiot if you think I wanted military personnel and their families living abroad to lose their citizen. Yet using your own words

but that's just what trolls do.
You absolutely knew my comment was over-the-top, you even admit it and ignore my other posts since and my description of how my own family can abuse the system. Happy trolling, dumbass.

Now once you get your military hard-on off, we can discuss what happened in Lebanon. There's a lot of Lebanese in Ottawa, I'm very familiar with what happens. They come here, get their citizenship, then go back. All those "citizens" are not just visiting Lebanon, they are living there. It may be arbitrary to say if they live there 5 years they forfeit their citizenship, yet they are taking advantage of another arbitrary rule to get their citizenship then leave and come back many years later when they need what Canada offers.

Our citizenship shouldn't be a revolving door.

[Nightwalker]

Same argument is used against the death penalty. Slipery slope but the line has to be drawn somewhere and I think it should be drawn on the side that favors the Canadian taxpayer.

Good example. Canada doesn't have the death penalty and likely never will.

[anti_rice]

I agree - I don't usually have problems with any place I go to. But honestly, why should other people care that YOU can't order at the place you want to. The business has a right to run it how they want to. If they don't want to hire people who speak english, it's their prerogative. If they lose business because people can't order in english, it's their own fault.

That's like saying - the government should crack down on restaurants with bad service.

First of all if you are going to run a business you better hope the owner cares how their customers order otherwise their business would go downhill. But that's not the point we are trying to make. The point is if you are going to immigrate to an english speaking country then immigrants should learn some basic english.

If you're saying other people shouldn't care how I order then maybe the government shouldn't care to put chinese on information brochures. Maybe ICBC shouldn't care to write the road sense book in chinese either. Maybe there would be less immigrants on the road that can't drive cause they wouldn't be able to complete their knowledge test.

[gars]

First of all if you are going to run a business you better hope the owner cares how their customers order otherwise their business would go downhill. But that's not the point we are trying to make. The point is if you are going to immigrate to an english speaking country then immigrants should learn some basic english.

If you're saying other people shouldn't care how I order then maybe the government shouldn't care to put chinese on information brochures. Maybe ICBC shouldn't care to write the road sense book in chinese either. Maybe there would be less immigrants on the road that can't drive cause they wouldn't be able to complete their knowledge test.

But driving - there is a difference. You don't actually need to be able to speak english to drive properly. All you need to do is know the rules and understand the road signs. Whether or not the immigrants on the road actually know how to drive properly is a whole other thing.

I just don't understand why people care how others run a business. If I go into a business and they can't serve me in English - I'll just leave and go somewhere else - I don't think it's my right as a Canadian Citizen to be served in English.

And I see a lot of this anger on this forum directed towards a lot of Chinese immigrants in Vancouver - and I understand why, Chinese are a big group of visible minorities here.

But there are also double standards. I don't hear people complaining when they go to some of the local Izakayas - where some of the servers don't speak english. People will just write that off as being "authentic japanese". But if you can't order your bubble tea in english, then it's those damn immigrants who don't bother to learn how to speak our national language.

I just view speaking the local language as one of those moral things. Some people have morals, some don't. Some immigrate here, and really try to learn english so that they can fit in, some don't.

[El Bastardo]

Good example. Canada doesn't have the death penalty and likely never will.


We had it, we just got rid of it in the mid-70s.



I just don't understand why people care how others run a business. If I go into a business and they can't serve me in English - I'll just leave and go somewhere else - I don't think it's my right as a Canadian Citizen to be served in English.



I disagree. Why should I be made to feel as if I have inadequate communication skills if I walk into a shop on Robson and can't buy something because the person serving me only speaks Korean. Why should I have to leave Fruiticana in Surrey to go to another store because the people working there can't tell me if these are Hayden or Atkins mangoes because I can't read the sign.
If you are providing services in a specific language only, please set that expectation. Don't allow the common public speaking the language of the majority to feel out of place because you are far too xenophobic to make an effort to acclimate.

[quasi]

Good example. Canada doesn't have the death penalty and likely never will.

What I meant was it's a debate that is very controversial like the death penalty and no matter where the coin lands there are going to be huge pros and huge cons. However my opinion is the onus should land on the immigrant and not the tax payer.

[gars]

I disagree. Why should I be made to feel as if I have inadequate communication skills if I walk into a shop on Robson and can't buy something because the person serving me only speaks Korean. Why should I have to leave Fruiticana in Surrey to go to another store because the people working there can't tell me if these are Hayden or Atkins mangoes because I can't read the sign.
If you are providing services in a specific language only, please set that expectation. Don't allow the common public speaking the language of the majority to feel out of place because you are far too xenophobic to make an effort to acclimate.

But under what authority do you believe these immigrants should be forced to speak english to you? Do you actually think a law should be passed that actually makes it illegal to make YOU feel out of place? What do you propose?

[Tapioca]

But under what authority do you believe these immigrants should be forced to speak english to you? Do you actually think a law should be passed that actually makes it illegal to make YOU feel out of place? What do you propose?

I think some people would like to see something like that. People would have to be forced to speak an official language when dealing with someone who doesn't understand that person's native tongue. Under such a law, people would only be permitted to speak their native language only to other people who understand it. It would be an absolute nightmare to enforce however.

its hilarious reading immigrants (or whose parents are immigrants) bitching about other immigrants

I can only speak about the history of Chinese immigrants in this country as I'm Chinese myself. The first wave of immigrants who came here to build the railroads, work in the mines, etc. worked hard. If you look at the history of BC, it was the white majority who didn't want them here. It's not as if the first wave of immigrants didn't want to integrate into Canadian society - they were deliberately excluded. My grandfather came to BC in the early 20th century to work in the mines on Vancouver Island. He eventually was forced to move to the prairies because the environment was more hospitable to Asians. He eventually set up shop in small-town Saskatchewan where he and my grandmother operated a diner for many years. My father was more or less raised as the quintessential Canadian - he hunted game on the prairie, he played pond hockey, he liked white women, etc.

The problem with the current generation of Chinese immigrants is that they have it easy. They didn't have to face adversity like people of my grandfather's generation. I'm not saying that they should have to go through what people like my grandfather went through, but be grateful and humble.

[Manic!]

So Conrad Black gives up his Canadian citizenship so he can be knighted by the queen. Get's in big trouble with the US law and we give him back his citizenship just because he asked for it. What B.S.

We have 1800 Canadians some of who are married and have kids many who are probable hard working citizens and we are going to spend millions to sent them back. That's just stupid.

If the conservatives want to send back people that got there citizenship illegally they should look at there own party first. Many people don't think MP Nina Grewal obtained citizenship legally.

Gurmant Grewal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurmant_Grewal#Controversy_over_Grewal.27s_immigra tion_to_Canada)

[Meowjin]

i hate the cons so fucking much

[goo3]

What I meant was it's a debate that is very controversial like the death penalty and no matter where the coin lands there are going to be huge pros and huge cons. However my opinion is the onus should land on the immigrant and not the tax payer.

Nah, that's too sloppy. You've already given it out. The time to save money is to catch it in the first place.

It's like you getting fired and your paycheque cut cuz someone accused you of such and such, and you didn't have a chance to defend yourself. People make mistakes all the time.

That sounds like lawsuits and negligence.

[Brianrietta]

But under what authority do you believe these immigrants should be forced to speak english to you? Do you actually think a law should be passed that actually makes it illegal to make YOU feel out of place? What do you propose?

I personally would like to see a slightly less stringent set of language laws similar to Bill 101, around since 1977 in Quebec.

"Product labels, their instructions, manuals, warranty certificates as well as restaurant menus and wine lists must be in the official language. Other languages may be used, provided the official language's prominence is at least equivalent."

"Signs and posters must be in the official language and they may also be in another language provided the official language be markedly predominant."

"The right of consumers to be informed and served in French. (article 5)" (replacing French with "English or French")

In my opinion if somebody wants to operate a business in Canada, I should be able to be served in one of the two official languages. Sure, I could point at the menu board and communicate my order at a restaurant or as said, a bubble-tea shop, but I personally don't feel that I should have to. Particularly at a BBT shop. Shit. I mean, the number of words required to understand my/possible orders are not even that numerous.

[Manic!]

In my opinion if somebody wants to operate a business in Canada, I should be able to be served in one of the two official languages.

Why not both?

[Supafly]

i might get failed for this , but

Canada as a developed nation has responsiblities around the world. $ is set aside for this. Its the same as saying "why donate money to japan during earthquake"

Unlike Africa, Japan has helped the world get ahead in research & development...so rebuilding a country that contributes to technology advancement is more ideal then sending care aid packages to a part of the world that doesnt even apreciate the good will of others...

Africa on the other hand; just takes handouts from the rest of the world...granted we (delveloped nations) go there to do research and development of our medical fields...if they wanted to start developing.....they would have done so already....since the 1940s.

I'll bet that 99.5% that the african population cant even point out where Canada is on the fucking map....

[/QUOTE]


People in canada are not dying because of hunger like in Africa. Even countries like China,india and other developing nations donate to these causes

And you can atest to this how?....You haven't done enough research to make such a bold claim....theres poverty in our own city; and people are dying left; right; and center. That shit doesn't make it on the news because Vancouver is world known to be in the top5 best places to live...who wants to paint their own shirts with a black brush?....
Venture DTES or outside vancouver into the interior, then comeback.

----------------

People may think I'm the biggest asshole on the planet, but you know what.... I honestly dont care. I would much rather help the 1 kid that comes from an abusive family and living in poverty in my own city then to help out 10kids in africa that cannot climb the ladder due to environment...

You cannot help everybody around the world, we just don't have the resources to do so. We already being taxed enough, and our very own infastructure is lacking....i mean, just look at our roads, parks, transit and sanitary systems....they all suck; yet we send 22 fucking million to africa??!! and then add levies and more taxes to compensate for our losses?...what in the fuck.

How bout taking that 22 million and the next 22 million which is a total of 44 million....and start rebuilding our cities, rebuilding hospitals and transit system.

[gars]

I think some people would like to see something like that. People would have to be forced to speak an official language when dealing with someone who doesn't understand that person's native tongue. Under such a law, people would only be permitted to speak their native language only to other people who understand it. It would be an absolute nightmare to enforce however.

I personally would like to see a slightly less stringent set of language laws similar to Bill 101, around since 1977 in Quebec.

"Product labels, their instructions, manuals, warranty certificates as well as restaurant menus and wine lists must be in the official language. Other languages may be used, provided the official language's prominence is at least equivalent."

"Signs and posters must be in the official language and they may also be in another language provided the official language be markedly predominant."

"The right of consumers to be informed and served in French. (article 5)" (replacing French with "English or French")

In my opinion if somebody wants to operate a business in Canada, I should be able to be served in one of the two official languages. Sure, I could point at the menu board and communicate my order at a restaurant or as said, a bubble-tea shop, but I personally don't feel that I should have to. Particularly at a BBT shop. Shit. I mean, the number of words required to understand my/possible orders are not even that numerous.

Are you guys serious? I'm not a law major - but I'm sure there's something in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that would stop that law from going into place.

You can't FORCE someone to speak your language. If you deal with the Federal Gov't, you can ask them to serve you in one of our official languages - but that doesn't apply to the rest of the country.

[gars]

How bout taking that 22 million and the next 22 million which is a total of 44 million....and start rebuilding our cities, rebuilding hospitals and transit system.

Do you understand how little 22 million is to a country the size of Canada? that's less than a dollar a person. The budget last year - we spent 280 Billion dollars. 22 million is 0.00785% of our federal budget.

[JD¹³]

You are overly sensitive and an idiot if you think I wanted military personnel and their families living abroad to lose their citizen....
You absolutely knew my comment was over-the-top...
Like clockwork, nice backpeddle and subject change. Military aside where do you draw the line Taylor? What about people working in the medical, energy, or airline industries? Or the couple that lived in Canada for 60 years then decide to retire in Florida, they're no longer Canadian right? Get real.

Just admit you made a moronic generalization. Thank god people like you don't represent this country, this province, or even this forum. Your ridiculous views are expressly your own. I'm sure most of RS wish you'd keep them to yourself :shhh:

[FerrariEnzo]

Don't they need to write an ENGLISH test or something?? If they can do it in their own native tongue then that's the first thing they need to change...

[Manic!]

Don't they need to write an ENGLISH test or something?? If they can do it in their own native tongue then that's the first thing they need to change...

Test for what???

[k3mps]

Test for what???

i think its called an IELTS test or something?

[Mr.C]

Don't they need to write an ENGLISH test or something?? If they can do it in their own native tongue then that's the first thing they need to change...

The test is available inn English and French. I did mine last year; it was absolutely pathetic. Very easy. I'm surprised that people fail it.

[Tapioca]

Are you guys serious? I'm not a law major - but I'm sure there's something in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that would stop that law from going into place.

You can't FORCE someone to speak your language. If you deal with the Federal Gov't, you can ask them to serve you in one of our official languages - but that doesn't apply to the rest of the country.

There's nothing in the Charter respecting other minority languages. Section 2 of the Charter deals with fundamental freedoms and I suppose it could be argued that the right to speak your own language is protected under section 2. However, any Parliament has the ability to invoke the notwithstanding clause and pass legislation which can supersede certain sections of the Charter, including section 2.

I'm not a lawyer by trade, but I read enough legal opinions on Canadian case law in my line of work to understand how fundamental legislation, like the Charter, is applied.

[SFUguy]

a little off-topic....

what really bugs the shit outta me lastnight was how africa is having a huge issue with famine, and Canada has donated 22 million dollars to support them and they're expected to double the amount of funds by the end of the year....jesus christ, shouldn't we feed the kids in our own backyard before we sluff off money to another country to feed their young and dying? what have they done to help us??!!!....for god sakes, the canadian gov't is fucked up sometimes...

Im just a little pissed off that my tax money is going to some country on the otherside of the world that is currupt as fuck making some other no-name asshole richer. If you're gonna take my tax dollars and feed children; atleast feed the children in our own fucking country.

I rather feed natives in Canada than Africans. Not a racial thing but charity begins at home

[SFUguy]

I personally would like to see a slightly less stringent set of language laws similar to Bill 101, around since 1977 in Quebec.

"Product labels, their instructions, manuals, warranty certificates as well as restaurant menus and wine lists must be in the official language. Other languages may be used, provided the official language's prominence is at least equivalent."

"Signs and posters must be in the official language and they may also be in another language provided the official language be markedly predominant."

"The right of consumers to be informed and served in French. (article 5)" (replacing French with "English or French")

In my opinion if somebody wants to operate a business in Canada, I should be able to be served in one of the two official languages. Sure, I could point at the menu board and communicate my order at a restaurant or as said, a bubble-tea shop, but I personally don't feel that I should have to. Particularly at a BBT shop. Shit. I mean, the number of words required to understand my/possible orders are not even that numerous.

If you have the money and you want to buy something in a store but they don't understand you, it's THEIR loss.

[SpuGen]

I rather feed natives in Canada than Africans. Not a racial thing but charity begins at home

Not when one has the opportunity to make a living for themselves, and the other doesn't even have clean drinking water.

Natives can feed themselves. They can get jobs like everyone else. Unless they're drinking thier own piss to survive another few days on the reserve, they can fuck right off.

[SFUguy]

The African continent is RICH in natural resources. Oil. Diamonds. Gold. Petroleum. They HAVE things that they can trade for food, water etc.

[taylor192]

Like clockwork, nice backpeddle and subject change. Military aside where do you draw the line Taylor? What about people working in the medical, energy, or airline industries? Or the couple that lived in Canada for 60 years then decide to retire in Florida, they're no longer Canadian right? Get real.

Just admit you made a moronic generalization. Thank god people like you don't represent this country, this province, or even this forum. Your ridiculous views are expressly your own. I'm sure most of RS wish you'd keep them to yourself :shhh:
This will be the second time I point out that I posted a follow up response indicating my generalization obviously needs more details, duh. You're free to continue to ignore it, like you're free to continue trolling.

I was dumbfounded you even mentioned the military, as if anyone would support stripping the citizenship of our heroes overseas. How fucked up are you to have that as your first thought? Wait don't answer that.

Did you know that many Canadian benefits require that you live in Canada for a certain period of time? and that upon your return to Canada you have to apply and wait a certain period of time before your benefits kick back in?

Wait, you probably don't and are just talking out your ass like usual.

[JD¹³]

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9148/jpu748.gif