[kouki_monster]

Hi Revscene, so I'm in a little bit of a dilemma at the moment and I need some advice.

Thing is, I acquired a ING+ jdm front bumper for my 98' S14 240sx, since my old version select bumper got ruined by the previous owner.. But when I brought it to the bodyshop they told me it wouldn't fit. The reason was because the usdm reinforcement bar is alot bigger than the jdm one due to stricter regulations in America..

Big rebar seen in pic (circled in blue): http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/Victol2/rebar1.jpg

In order to make my bumper fit, they need to remove the rebar, which I think protects the car in case of a front end collision. So the question is, has anyone been in my situation before.. and what did you do? Or will it be okay to remove this bar? Thanks



EDIT: So removing the rebar is a no go, does anyone know if a jdm rebar would help AND fit onto a usdm s14?

[604nguyen]

if it were me, i wouldnt take the chance

[TypeRNammer]

Would the bumper fit if you have a jdm rebar??
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[Kilinim]

Cut the rebar?
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[EndLeSS8]

I don't think you need to remove the entire thing, you can trim down the rebar

[kouki_monster]

Yup so after talking with my neighbor that owns a kitted S13, came to conclusion that removing the rebar entirely is a bad idea, as ICBC won't cover you if you don't have one.

Jdm rebar is a good question, does anyone know if getting one would help my situation?

Same goes for trimming the usdm rebar.

[Raid3n]

..... have you thought about trimming the bumper instead.....

[kouki_monster]

..... have you thought about trimming the bumper instead.....

That was actually the first thing, and it would be impossible to do because of the area of the bumper that wouldn't fit.

[kouki_monster]

Also after giving some though I would rather use a JDM rebar if -possible-?

So does anyone know if getting the jdm rebar will make a difference, and if it does will it bolt on to my usdm s14? Thanks.

Also where to buy one would be a big problem too lol

[tofu1413]

cheaper to fab one yourself. lotsa local places that'll do custom work.

pretty sure AMTmachine shop could give you a good deal on custom fabbed re bar.

[Delerious]

Get someone to do up a bash bar for you and attach it to the original bumper-struts. You'll get mad jdm points at the same time!

[epicbeardman]

ask the dudes at rise. they know their s14s

[SHIFT_drift]

jdm rebar is basically nothing.

there are two very small "nubs"? that come out of the frame rails, and then a super flimsy bumper support for the bumper to rest on. you can bend that with your hands. There is like a gap the size of that front mount between the supports.

[monkeywrench]

I drove without re-bars. You're going to notice almost all aftermarket bumpers don't fit with re-bars.

I suggest you find the jdm brackets and possibly ask Rise how they do their S14s like someone said above

[vitaminG]

ive seen people just fabricate their own rebar using steel tubing. Dont know what ICBC would have to say about it, but it would be a lot safer than cutting it off

[kouki_monster]

Thanks for all the posts, I'll look into either trimming the rebar or getting a custom one done. Maybe someone could forward this post to rise and see what they have to say :P

[SpuGen]

Trim + Gusset.
The body shop should be able to do it.
Doesn't need to have a full string of weld. Just a few intermittent welds should be fine.

[death_blossom]

get yourself some JDM rebars. it's not gonna protect the car very much in the case of an accident, but it's the risk you run for running a fancy bumper.

a bigger USDM rebar probably won't protect you that much better than a JDM one, and here's why:

many many import cars of yesteryear have bigger rebars compared to their JDM counterparts mostly because of low speed impact regulations. they are mostly built to satisfy repair cost thresholds in the case of a low speed impact. the bigger rebar can absorb and dissipate impact force better, so it doesn't cost insurance companies as much to repair. this is why we didn't get cars like the EVO for so many years. the FMIC would surely get damaged ($$$) in a parking lot fender bender. however, in higher speed collisions (40kph+) this will mean that the bigger rebar is gonna directly send all the crashing force into the frame rails. which is gonna ruin the frame rails for sure. kind of a stupid way of thinking way back. but hey, money rules all.

I don't know if a USDM rebar is going to protect you any better in a 50kph+ accident. the crashing force should be absorbed by the crumple zones pretty good. However, with the JDM rebars your car is probably going to get written off for sure. it's all a risk you gotta evaluate in the end.

[nosaj]

i donno man...i would try not to touch the rebar if i was you...i mean safety > look?

[Supafly]

get yourself some JDM rebars. it's not gonna protect the car very much in the case of an accident, but it's the risk you run for running a fancy bumper.

a bigger USDM rebar probably won't protect you that much better than a JDM one, and here's why:

many many import cars of yesteryear have bigger rebars compared to their JDM counterparts mostly because of low speed impact regulations. they are mostly built to satisfy repair cost thresholds in the case of a low speed impact. the bigger rebar can absorb and dissipate impact force better, so it doesn't cost insurance companies as much to repair. this is why we didn't get cars like the EVO for so many years. the FMIC would surely get damaged ($$$) in a parking lot fender bender. however, in higher speed collisions (40kph+) this will mean that the bigger rebar is gonna directly send all the crashing force into the frame rails. which is gonna ruin the frame rails for sure. kind of a stupid way of thinking way back. but hey, money rules all.

I don't know if a USDM rebar is going to protect you any better in a 50kph+ accident. the crashing force should be absorbed by the crumple zones pretty good. However, with the JDM rebars your car is probably going to get written off for sure. it's all a risk you gotta evaluate in the end.

im sure that DOT/SAE has done enough testing to say that a rebar will possible stop the engine block from sitting in your lap in the case of an avg MVA.:speechless:

[C-unit]

Nismoparts.cc. I get most of my OEM replacement from them. They are in WA.

http://www.nissanparts.cc

Call them up and see if they have it. They have the most selection of JDM OEM stuff in northwest. Reasonable price as well.

Otherwise, you can trim and reinforce your rebar.

[SpuGen]

im sure that DOT/SAE has done enough testing to say that a rebar will possible stop the engine block from sitting in your lap in the case of an avg MVA.:speechless:

.............
Thats what Engine Mounts + the firewall is for..

[Phil@rise]

We fab up plenty of rebars for apps like this

[kouki_monster]

We fab up plenty of rebars for apps like this

About how much would that cost? And how strong would it be compared to oem?

[Supafly]

.............
Thats what Engine Mounts + the firewall is for..

I wouldn't want to be sitting in your passenger seat.....and I would pitty the fool who would.....

Do some detailed research on REBARs..then comeback at me with some knowledge.

[SpuGen]

Too lazy. Feel free to edumacate.

[death_blossom]

im sure that DOT/SAE has done enough testing to say that a rebar will possible stop the engine block from sitting in your lap in the case of an avg MVA.:speechless:haha, true enough. I was just trying to say that the JDM rebars are probably not going to injure you that much more compared to a USDM rebar. a 100kph accident is probably a diff story though.

[kouki_monster]

Well, after long debate w/ friend that works at icbc and bodyshop.. will probably just purchase another version select front bumper that will fit the usdm rebar. Any trimming / removal / custom rebaring will make icbc fuck you over if you get into an accident by not insuring you

[trollguy]

I wouldn't want to be sitting in your passenger seat.....and I would pitty the fool who would.....

Do some detailed research on REBARs..then comeback at me with some knowledge.

really? you're the same guy who told me that NOT running hub rings would make my wheels fall off cause my studs would sheer right?

from NHTSA.gov
Bumper Questions and Answers (http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/studies/bumper/index.html)

1) What is a bumper?
A bumper is a shield made of steel, aluminum, rubber, or plastic that is mounted on the front and rear of a passenger car. When a low speed collision occurs, the bumper system absorbs the shock to prevent or reduce damage to the car. Some bumpers use energy absorbers or brackets and others are made with a foam cushioning material.
2) What is the purpose of bumpers?
The car bumper is designed to prevent or reduce physical damage to the front and rear ends of passenger motor vehicles in low-speed collisions. Automobile bumpers are not typically designed to be structural components that would significantly contribute to vehicle crashworthiness or occupant protection during front or rear collisions. It is not a safety feature intended to prevent or mitigate injury severity to occupants in the passenger cars. Bumpers are designed to protect the hood, trunk, grille, fuel, exhaust and cooling system as well as safety related equipment such as parking lights, headlamps and taillights in low speed collisions.


You must be thinking of a crumple zone, right? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the effects of removing a bumper beam on the front crumple zone.

[death_blossom]

Well, after long debate w/ friend that works at icbc and bodyshop.. will probably just purchase another version select front bumper that will fit the usdm rebar. Any trimming / removal / custom rebaring will make icbc fuck you over if you get into an accident by not insuring you

just tell ICBC that you bought the car like that.

[Supafly]

really? you're the same guy who told me that NOT running hub rings would make my wheels fall off cause my studs would sheer right?

from NHTSA.gov
Bumper Questions and Answers (http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/studies/bumper/index.html)




You must be thinking of a crumple zone, right? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the effects of removing a bumper beam on the front crumple zone.



Yea I did...you're a cheap enthusiast and like I said before, to each their own. Its obv that you can't spend an extra 100 bux for piece of mind...Id love to see you drive a luxury car thats 3x heavier and 2x faster....and run without hubrings; keep driving your car, i'd love to see your studs sheer one day when you hit a big pothole in the city; then come to revscene and post/whine about your misfortune; bitch about how the city cannot keep up with maintenance. :fullofwin:

--------------
Actually read this link....theres a lot to read; and if you really want to argue safety of frontal reinforcement bars.
Hey its your car; I honestly dont care for you or your vehicle..its your lap with your motor and the newpaper print...not mine.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv19/Other/Print%2002.pdf

Read it all up to page 26. Then start reading from page 34 -on.....


-----

So if you have sometime and read far enough into this document, you understand Japans testing vs. Canada/US/EU testings of the Frontal Barrier. Theres time/velocity graphs to show rapid decelerations etc etc...

[Phil@rise]

The rebar is only in place to protect the VEHICLE from damages during a low speed collision IE 5km/h and lower. Any rate of speed higher then that and it has little to no effect on safety or structure.

[SumAznGuy]

Can or will ICBC denie a claim if you modified/removed your front rebar?

[Expresso]

Can or will ICBC denie a claim if you modified/removed your front rebar?

I'm sure they can if they wanted to. But its something the adjuster would have to be familiar with and notice right away. I mean how many JDM Front Integras have we had back in the day.

[Phil@rise]

Can or will ICBC denie a claim if you modified/removed your front rebar?

In all my years in this industry I've never heard of it but anything is possible. And such denial would only be on low speed damages if any denial of coverages at all.

[trollguy]

Yea I did...you're a cheap enthusiast and like I said before, to each their own. Its obv that you can't spend an extra 100 bux for piece of mind...Id love to see you drive a luxury car thats 3x heavier and 2x faster....and run without hubrings; keep driving your car, i'd love to see your studs sheer one day when you hit a big pothole in the city; then come to revscene and post/whine about your misfortune; bitch about how the city cannot keep up with maintenance. :fullofwin:

--------------
Actually read this link....theres a lot to read; and if you really want to argue safety of frontal reinforcement bars.
Hey its your car; I honestly dont care for you or your vehicle..its your lap with your motor and the newpaper print...not mine.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv19/Other/Print%2002.pdf

Read it all up to page 26. Then start reading from page 34 -on.....


-----

So if you have sometime and read far enough into this document, you understand Japans testing vs. Canada/US/EU testings of the Frontal Barrier. Theres time/velocity graphs to show rapid decelerations etc etc...

I've been nice enough to quickly just copy and paste my points, can't you return the favour? I'll take a read when I have more time to browse through 36 pages

But I'm curious as to why they're rated at either 5, 8 or 10mph (or what have you)?

and with regards to the 3x heavier and 2x faster comment.. you drive a car that's 9600 lbs, and does (for sake of argument) 0-60 in less than 2 seconds?

So for hub rings, are there higher load hub rings for 9600 lb cars vs say my 3200 lb car?