[spades]

Just watched this and thought it was hilarious, the first couple seasons are supposed to be pretty good.

Penn & Teller Bullshit - Recycling Part 1 - YouTube

Penn & Teller Bullshit - Recycling Part 2.avi - YouTube

Penn & Teller Bullshit - Recycling Part 3 - YouTube

[Grandmaster TSE]

bullshit is always fun to watch, even though its still very one sided in views and might not always be showing the whole picture

[Death2Theft]

Well this just goes in line with carbon taxes being a cash grab, and that there isn't any real global warming. They claim the ice caps on other planets are melting and it's just because the sun is in a period of giving off more heat.

[Teh Doucher]

i cant fucking stand penn's voice.

[TheKingdom2000]

this is a stupid ass documentary/show.
this is completely one sided.

don't bother watching it.
Their main point is that it costs more to recycle than it is to just throw it in the dump...
Which seems to be true. But, so what?

[FiveDime]

Im very liberal and even i turned this off.


VERY one sided

[Gridlock]

Well, that episode is a republican wet dream.

I don't care about any of their points, I still feel that its the responsible thing to do.

I have heard the stats that 40% of the sorted recycled product ends up in the landfill anyway. If there is no buyer for product at a given time, they dump it knowing that there is another ton on the way.

However, technology is the answer.

Build products that provide intrinsic value into the trash to begin with would be one.

Two, turn the plastic back into oil and it regains its value.

And so on.

[SkinnyPupp]

Im very liberal and even i turned this off.


VERY one sided

:fulloffuck:

Of COURSE it's one sided. This is the OTHER side of the argument. From the moment we can learn language we are told to recycle, and that not doing so makes you a bad person who is destroying the planet.

Finally someone applies critical thinking, and brings up the other side, and all you can do is dismiss it, because it goes against what you were trained like a dog to think.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[PornMaster]

Why don't you guys watch it and have your own opinion.

The video has some great facts.
recycling plastic and paper = waste of money
aluminum cans = good

don't just go ITS ONE SIDED OMFG NOT WATCHING
what about those videos promoting global warming?
you still watched that BS and believed it

[quasi]

In Sask. they don't recycle anything. Even things like drywall that you have to recycle here by law is just tossed in the normal garbage. Any idea if other Provinces are similar? Living here for so long I just assumed everybody recycled but was totally surprised last time I visited there.

[FiveDime]

Why don't you guys watch it and have your own opinion.

The video has some great facts.
recycling plastic and paper = waste of money
aluminum cans = good

don't just go ITS ONE SIDED OMFG NOT WATCHING
what about those videos promoting global warming?
you still watched that BS and believed it


lol

how is global warming BS?
Its a fact that earth is getting warmer. Man made or natural w/e... its still a fact.

[FiveDime]

:fulloffuck:

Of COURSE it's one sided. This is the OTHER side of the argument. From the moment we can learn language we are told to recycle, and that not doing so makes you a bad person who is destroying the planet.

Finally someone applies critical thinking, and brings up the other side, and all you can do is dismiss it, because it goes against what you were trained like a dog to think.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

What it comes down to is the less we produce to use and the more we reuse is better for us in the long term. Its simple logic.

Putting more into landfills is not the best idea when we can reuse most of the shit we throw in their. So why not?

The amount of energy used to recycle a product is WAY less than the energy used to produce the product in the first place.

[Great68]

The amount of energy used to recycle a product is WAY less than the energy used to produce the product in the first place.

Did you watch the video? If you did you would have realized they explained that for things like plastic bottles the OPPOSITE is true.

It takes WAY MORE energy to collect, ship, sort, clean, re-process those items than to make them from scratch.

So sure, we might not put as much plastic into a landfill, but we suck more oil out of the ground and make more CO2 emissions instead.

I agree with the video on paper recycling too. BC is a giant tree farm. It's not like we're cutting up old growth anymore, recycling paper actually hurts one of our big industries: FORESTRY

[FiveDime]

Did you watch the video? If you did you would have realized they explained that for things like plastic bottles the OPPOSITE is true.

It takes WAY MORE energy to collect, ship, sort, clean, re-process those items than to make them from scratch.

So sure, we might not put as much plastic into a landfill, but we suck more oil out of the ground and make more CO2 emissions instead.

I agree with the video on paper recycling too. BC is a giant tree farm. It's not like we're cutting up old growth anymore, recycling paper actually hurts one of our big industries: FORESTRY


Oil is a finite resource. The less we use to produce plastic the more you have to drive your car! :D

[Great68]

:facepalm:

You still haven't figured it out.

Maybe a bigger font will help:

IT TAKES MORE OIL TO RECYCLE PLASTIC THAN IT DOES TO MAKE IT FROM SCRATCH

Pretty simple.

[FiveDime]

:facepalm:

You still haven't figured it out.

Maybe a bigger font will help:

IT TAKES MORE OIL TO RECYCLE PLASTIC THAN IT DOES TO MAKE IT FROM SCRATCH

Pretty simple.


Ok well you pointed out that to recycle a product it takes "collect, ship, sort, clean, re-process"

So yes to collect and ship the recycled product would take oil for the transportation.

To sort, clean and re-process, Takes energy not necessarily oil to produce that energy. Whos to say 100% of recycle plants get their energy from oil. The energy for those 3 steps can come from many different power stations.


With producing plastic, alot of materials are used to produce it. So you have to count in the manufacturing of those materials, the transportation of such goods, ethylele glycol, methonol, p-xylene, acetic acid.

http://lca.plasticseurope.org/images/petb5.png


The Pacific Institute estimates that in 2006:

Producing the bottles for American consumption required the equivalent of more than 17 million barrels of oil, not including the energy for transportation
Bottling water produced more than 2.5 million tons of carbon dioxide
It took 3 liters of water to produce 1 liter of bottled water


Energy Required to Make PET Plastic:

According to the plastics manufacturing industry, it takes around 3.4 megajoules of energy to make a typical one-liter plastic bottle, cap, and packaging. Making enough plastic to bottle 31.2 billion liters of water required more than 106 billion megajoules of energy. Because a barrel of oil contains around 6 thousand megajoules, the Pacific Institute estimates that the equivalent of more than 17 million barrels of oil were needed to produce these plastic bottles.

source (http://www.pacinst.org/topics/water_and_sustainability/bottled_water/bottled_water_and_energy.html)

and thats just for bottled water.

Where are the stats for how much energy it takes to recycle a plastic water bottle?

Oh and btw you dont have to be such a jerk, im just having a discussion.

[FiveDime]

Ok well i decided to do some research myself as im curious about the topic.

How much energy does it take to recycle a plastic bottle?


I could only find a yahoo answers page with some results.
A 500ml plastic bottle weighs about 20 grams. Material is PET or PETG. This is a very small amount of material and plasticizes very quickly. The following are estimates based upon equipment energy use per hour and recycling thousands of bottles at a time.

To recycle you must regrind the material= 400 watts for 0.5 seconds = 200 watt seconds

Remelt and repelletize the material=1200 watts for 1 second= 1200 watt seconds

Mold it into something new= 2000 watts for 2 seconds=4000 watt seconds

Total 5400 watt seconds= 1.5 watt hours

By comparison a 40 watt energy saving lamp uses 27 times the energy per hour.

Plastics melt at temperatures far lower than glass or metals and therefore uses far less energy to recycle

Source (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090331204250AAIkfLq)

Now take in account that they are not accounting for the transportation of the recycled plastic, but neither was the "The Pacific Institute" in their findings.

Here are some interesting facts and statistics about plastic bottles:

5.1 billion: Amount, in pounds, of polyethylene terephthalate (PET) bottles and jars available in the U.S. for recycling in 2009.

2,456 million: Amount, in pounds, of plastic bottles – including PET and HDPE – recycled in 2009, making it a record high.

46: Number of plastics collection programs that were added to U.S. communities in 2009.

28: Percentage of PET plastic bottles that got recycled in 2009.

44: Percentage increase in 2009 of RPET (Recycled PET) used in food and beverage bottles.

2/3: The amount of energy that is saved when producing new plastic products from recycled materials instead of raw (virgin) materials. It also reduces greenhouse gas emissions.

Six: The number of hours that the energy conserved from recycling a single plastic bottle can light a 60-watt light bulb.

19: The number of 20 oz. PET bottles it takes to yield enough fiber for an extra large T-shirt or one square foot of carpet.


So by the math of my findings,

3.4 megajoules to create a new bottle and cap from scratch, compaired to 1.5 watt hours to recycle a plastic bottle.
3.4 megajoules = 144 watt hours.

[Culture_Vulture]

Im very liberal and even i turned this off.


VERY one sided


Oh and btw you dont have to be such a jerk, im just having a discussion.

On what grounds are you having this discussion? You didn't even watch the video thoroughly...

[Death2Theft]

I think the point is regardless if it's manmade or nautural why are we paying taxes towards it? It's not like the tax money is doing anything but paying a guy 20 bux an hour to sort garbage and a cash grab for the gov.
lol

how is global warming BS?
Its a fact that earth is getting warmer. Man made or natural w/e... its still a fact.

[Graeme S]

Ok well you pointed out that to recycle a product it takes "collect, ship, sort, clean, re-process"

So yes to collect and ship the recycled product would take oil for the transportation.

To sort, clean and re-process, Takes energy not necessarily oil to produce that energy. Whos to say 100% of recycle plants get their energy from oil. The energy for those 3 steps can come from many different power stations.


The issue with this is that while we are lucky here in BC, most of the rest of the world (with few exceptions) use coal, oil or natural-gas fired electrical power. This is especially true of the US, which P&T's BS is focusing on. Also remember that while we think of recycling as a regional thing, Americans love to do things like regional and state amalgamation, meaning that all plastics and processing would go from local depots to regional centres to recycling plants and from there get redistributed to plastic manufacturers and/or users....meaning that things are both more and less efficient.

It's like when you buy organic and you think you're doing a good thing, or when you buy "locally line-caught" fish...except that the amount of fuel used for that single fish, or the amount of fertilizer and care for that single head of lettuce is much more than that of a mass-produced one. Just because you think you're being green doesn't mean you actually are.

[kingprince22]

I never recycle.