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09-14-2011, 08:05 PM
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#1 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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| Taiwan Leader’s ‘Surrender Tour’ to Beijing?
Quote:
On Monday, President Ma Ying-jeou’s office denied that the Taiwan leader would go to China should he be re-elected in January. “As of now, there’s no such plan,” said spokesman Fan Chiang Tai-chi in Taipei.
The official response came hours after the executive director of Ma’s campaign organization told Hong Kong’s Phoenix Television that the president was not ruling out a China visit, which would be the first by a Taiwan leader. “Once the two sides have developed tacit understanding and are capable of setting aside disputes and solving bilateral issues in a practical manner, the likelihood of this and addressing further issues is on the rise,” King Pu-tsung said. “The two sides may hold more dialogues on daily affairs, culture, sports, economy and even politics.”
Tsai Ing-wen, Ma’s opponent in the early 2012 presidential contest, assailed King’s remarks and urged Ma to rein in his campaign manager. Yet Tsai must have been pleased that her opponent’s camp, the Kuomintang, looked like it had committed an unforced error. Although the island’s electorate wants stable relations with Beijing, polling reveals unease with the fast pace of “reconciliation” with the Chinese.
After inaugurated in 2008, Ma quickly signed a raft of agreements with China, including last June’s sweeping Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement, but Taiwan’s voters evidently feel that the new relationship with Beijing has not yielded promised benefits. Perhaps as important, the electorate generally marks down Ma for not protecting Taiwan’s fragile international profile. Many suspect the closer economic link to China the president favors is the prelude to a surrender of the island’s independent status to Beijing.
In late 1949, Mao Zedong’s Communist Party drove Chiang Kai-shek’s Kuomintang, or Nationalist Party, from the Chinese mainland to Taiwan during the latter stages of the Chinese civil war. Since then, the Kuomintang has maintained its claims to “the Mainland” and considers Taiwan a province of a larger nation, the Republic of China. Beijing similarly views Taiwan as a part of “China,” but in this case the People’s Republic of China. Tsai’s opposition Democratic Progressive Party, on the other hand, generally rejects the notion that there is a greater Chinese nation and sees the island as simply “Taiwan.”
In a poll last month, a slight majority of the island’s citizens identify themselves as “Taiwanese” and not “Chinese,” while only 3 percent see themselves as Chinese and not Taiwanese. Given the high Taiwan identity on the island, it is not surprising that, according to polls, support for unification of Taiwan and China is almost always in single digits.
A Ma visit to Beijing would probably not be popular in Taiwan for various reasons. As an initial matter, the trip, the first time for either side’s leader to cross the Taiwan Strait, would be perceived as an admission of weakness because, especially in Chinese culture, supplicants travel to meet their masters. More important, virtually no one believes that China’s Chinese would be willing to accord Ma the respect due to a head of state. After all, in Beijing’s view he is nothing more than a provincial governor.
And that is why Tsai’s DPP thinks it can score points with the voters. Its immediate response to King’s words was to argue that, if Ma were to go to China, he should do so only in his capacity as head of state. “If he cannot visit in that capacity, that would mean he cannot uphold the nation’s dignity,” said DPP spokesman Chen Chi-mai.
Tsai has fallen back in the latest polls after drawing even with Ma in recent months. Yet her party has done extremely well in the off-year elections, and its successes point to the widespread concern that, among other things, Ma is selling out Taiwan to the Chinese.
On Monday, Ma’s campaign manager just confirmed many voters’ worst fears about his boss’s ultimate plans. So far, countries in the region and the United States have ignored what’s going on in Taiwan. Yet if President Ma actually intends to deliver the island to the Chinese on a silver platter—as he might do on a “surrender tour” to Beijing—he will change the balance of power in East Asia and give an aggressive China a new base from which to destabilize the region.
| So some turbulent news is stirring up in taiwan as they prepare for their 5th presidential election. I think the media is blowing this out of proportions. I know most people think politics in taiwan is a joke, but for any one who gives two shits or wants a good insight this is definitely a worthwhile read. Taiwan Leader | 
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09-14-2011, 08:24 PM
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#2 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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who cares? all the money is pouring out of Taiwan and seeping into China anyway
taiwanese politicians/supporters always remind me of Ewoks and China as Wookies (the ewoks look/act like wookie children)
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09-14-2011, 08:30 PM
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#3 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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obviously it isn't impacting your life too much in Canada. but i think you missed the sentence Quote: |
After inaugurated in 2008, Ma quickly signed a raft of agreements with China, including last June’s sweeping Economic Cooperation Framework Agreement, but Taiwan’s voters evidently feel that the new relationship with Beijing has not yielded promised benefits
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09-14-2011, 08:34 PM
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#4 | | Banned By Establishment
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who cares, i m taiwanese and i dont even care
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09-14-2011, 08:35 PM
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#5 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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that doesnt change my comments :P
if you look at the richest Taiwanese citizens they've all poured their money into China of course the middle class etc are up in arms but back to my comment they're always up in arms and overreact over everything that's why they seem like Ewoks to me  | |
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09-14-2011, 10:10 PM
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#6 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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who the fuck cares about taiwan
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09-14-2011, 10:25 PM
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#7 | | I keep RS good
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09-14-2011, 10:52 PM
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#8 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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HK is a fucking good example why Taiwan should stay independent.
1 country 2 systems is a bullshit theory.
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09-14-2011, 11:04 PM
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#9 | | My bookmarks are Reddit and REVscene, in that order
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Isn't HK doing great right now though?
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09-14-2011, 11:12 PM
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#10 | | SiRVs up, dude
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^Whats wrong with HK now?
They managed to get in on China's booming economy, managed to keep their freedom of expression, currency, language.... facebook etc. Still seems to be pretty separate from China IMO
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09-15-2011, 12:26 AM
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#11 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by SiRV  ^Whats wrong with HK now?
They managed to get in on China's booming economy, managed to keep their freedom of expression, currency, language.... facebook etc. Still seems to be pretty separate from China IMO | And China can crack down at any moment. If they will is another story.m
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09-15-2011, 01:31 AM
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#12 | | I keep RS good
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china wont crack down. that's something america would do if the roles were reversed.
chinese don't think like north americans.
it's more "do your own thing, but you're under our flag, you belong to us."
one china.
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09-15-2011, 07:04 AM
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#13 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by SiRV ^Whats wrong with HK now?
They managed to get in on China's booming economy, managed to keep their freedom of expression, currency, language.... facebook etc. Still seems to be pretty separate from China IMO | Before 1997 till mid 2000
Most Hongers believe the 1 country 2 systems exists and protects their sino-british status like the old days. Unverisal suffrage will eventually become true in 2012 etc etc. Nowaday
If you keep up with the current news in HK, you hear a lot of topics regarding police interferred the media, Donald Tsang acted like a bitch bowing to those Chinese officials, or whatever said by the higher officials when they visit hk will be implemented immediately by the govt, and "Bow Wong Dong" = Parties that always say yes to whatever the government says.
HK is fucked up already. I don't recommend anyone on RS relocating to HK at this moment. Taiwanese are smart, hope they can keep the Mainlanders out of their land.
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09-15-2011, 11:53 AM
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#14 | | Ready to be Man handled by RS!
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I concur with asian_XL's view, so many of my friends had plans to relocate to HK, now they have retracted their plans due to the worsened situation in HK after the Chinese government took over. Quote:
Originally Posted by asian_XL Before 1997 till mid 2000
Most Hongers believe the 1 country 2 systems exists and protects their sino-british status like the old days. Unverisal suffrage will eventually become true in 2012 etc etc.
Nowaday
If you keep up with the current news in HK, you hear a lot of topics regarding police interferred the media, Donald Tsang acted like a bitch bowing to those Chinese officials, or whatever said by the higher officials when they visit hk will be implemented immediately by the govt, and "Bow Wong Dong" = Parties that always say yes to whatever the government says.
HK is fucked up already. I don't recommend anyone on RS relocating to HK at this moment. Taiwanese are smart, hope they can keep the Mainlanders out of their land. | | |
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09-15-2011, 12:12 PM
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#15 | | NEWBIE ACCOUNT!
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Well it's not that HK isn't smart... It had to be returned in 1997 whether ppl liked it or not. There's no exact date when it comes to the debate of Taiwan. Posted via RS Mobile | |
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09-15-2011, 12:29 PM
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#16 | | Revscene.net has a homepage?!
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The problem with the HK population in general is they take something small and make it a big deal.
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09-15-2011, 01:13 PM
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#17 | | The Lone Wanderator
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmeister The problem with the HK population in general is they take something small and make it a big deal. | It's my understanding that the real objection a lot of people in HK have is the fact that at least half of the administrators who make final decisions for what happens in HK are either appointed by the Mainland government or in some way represent the Mainland. As a result, people whose freedoms to speak out about whatever they wanted are now being eroded. While directly there seems to be no interference, there is subtle pressure to keep things quiet and dulled down.
Again, this is just what I've heard and inferred.
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09-15-2011, 04:24 PM
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#18 | | RS.net, where our google ads make absolutely no sense!
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I would've thought that there would be more 'pro mainland China-ism' here or are all those guys at vansky?  | |
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09-15-2011, 04:45 PM
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#19 | | Revscene.net has a homepage?!
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S It's my understanding that the real objection a lot of people in HK have is the fact that at least half of the administrators who make final decisions for what happens in HK are either appointed by the Mainland government or in some way represent the Mainland. As a result, people whose freedoms to speak out about whatever they wanted are now being eroded. While directly there seems to be no interference, there is subtle pressure to keep things quiet and dulled down.
Again, this is just what I've heard and inferred. | I agree to what you're saying for the most part. But as it's master (for lack of a better term) and largest trading partner, wouldn't you think HK would align their policies to somewhat similar to China?
But what I was referring to is the petty shit that people in HK feel like protesting about. Take this example: Quote:
Hong Kong police arrested 113 protesters after an anti-budget demonstration late yesterday, as the government came under increasing pressure from activists who criticised authorities for not doing enough to help the poor.
The protesters took to the streets despite a revised government plan last week to grant HK$6,000 ($771) to each Hong Hong permanent resident, after a wave of public criticism over the government's failure to offer more relief and welfare measures in the budget to help local residents cope with mounting inflation, expected to hit 4.5 per cent this year.
Hong Kong announced a bumper surplus of HK$71.3 billion ($9.15 billion) for the 2010/11 financial year.
Police said in a statement today the protesters were arrested after they blocked roads in the city's downtown financial district and confronted police.
Police said they were forced to use pepper spray on groups of activists after repeated calls for them to disperse peacefully and to maintain public order amid heated scenes and chants for the city's financial secretary to resign.
Among those arrested were two boys aged 12 and 13, while several people were injured in the standoff including an eight-year-old boy who was caught by the pepper spray.
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Many of those arrested were youngsters linked to the radical pro-democracy political party, the League of Social Democrats, whose members include activist lawmaker Leung Kwok-hung.
A government spokesman said in a statement Hong Kong authorities would "listen to and carefully consider the views expressed by the public with an open mind".
Reuters
| Like seriously, they bitch about the govt having a surplus, bitch about the govt having a rainy day fund (ask Harper and Clark how bad they want any surplus), bitch when the govt decides to spread the wealth, bring their kids to protests, ignore police commands, bitch when they get pepper sprayed, bitch when the police bring them to an ambulance, etc etc.
I'm from HK myself, but I am truly annoyed by the people to bitch about the pettiest of things......
Anyways, my understanding of the Taiwan situation was they were in some economic shithole and if it wasn't for China providing an olive branch (tourist $$$$) they would be in trouble? A war of words and idelogies is bad for business, everyone knows that.
I'd say the same for HK and China relations, if it wasn't for the Mainlanders coming down with cash and leaving with LV and GUCCI, HK would be FUCKED. And Macau, without the Mainlanders packing their casinos it would still be the shithole it was 15 years ago.
Last edited by jackmeister; 09-15-2011 at 04:53 PM.
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09-15-2011, 04:48 PM
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#20 | | RS.net, where our google ads make absolutely no sense!
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmeister Like seriously, they bitch about the govt having a surplus, bitch about the govt having a rainy day fund (ask Harper and Clark how bad they want any surplus), bitch when the govt decides to spread the wealth, bring their kids to protests, ignore police commands, bitch when they get pepper sprayed.
I'm from HK myself, but I am truly annoyed by the people to bitch about the pettiest of things...... | But you gotta admit, they are taking actions regarding their disagreement with the government. Instead of taking it like a bitch like citizens of Vancouver.
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09-15-2011, 05:12 PM
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#21 | | 2010 RS Top Food Critic Winner
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In light of all this HK stuff, what about the news last year about banning Cantonese channels? Anger Over Anti-Cantonese Moves in China | Asia | English | |
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09-15-2011, 09:18 PM
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#22 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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wow this thread shifted quickly Quote:
Originally Posted by xilley who cares, i m taiwanese and i dont even care | Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorIS who the fuck cares about taiwan | that's unfortuante..sure taiwan isn't the same powerhouse it once was in the 80's and 90's...but if they were to be completely engulfed by PRC in the coming decades this would greatly upset the balance of economy in Asia Four Asian Tigers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | |
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09-15-2011, 10:16 PM
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#23 | | Need my Daily Fix of RS
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off topic guys:
have anyone seen an old chinese dude swinging a huge sized taiwanese flag on the intersection of no.3 and westminster, in front of the TD Bank?
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09-15-2011, 10:38 PM
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#24 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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^ i think he's on RS
screen name is Ulic something if i'm not mistaken
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09-16-2011, 01:07 AM
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#25 | | I keep RS good
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by murmur off topic guys:
have anyone seen an old chinese dude swinging a huge sized taiwanese flag on the intersection of no.3 and westminster, in front of the TD Bank? | hes not old. he's like.. 40's?
he's dedicated man... i see him like fuckin standing there for 10 hours a day for the past 5 days or something, every time i pass by he's there.
i asked him, what he was doing...
he replied...
"china's 100 birthday celebration"
white guy asked him "hey thats taiwans flag right?" he replied, "no, it's china's flag, china's original flag"
it is the ROC's 100th birthday, and he's hardcore KMT.
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