[RacePace]

Hong Kong's High Court has ruled that a law banning foreign maids from settling permanently in the city was
unconstitutional, in a landmark case for the city's domestic helpers.

The High Court said immigration laws barring maids from applying for permanent residency violated Hong Kong's municipal charter, known as the Basic Law.

The case was brought by Evangeline Banao Vallejos, who has lived in Hong Kong since 1986. The ruling could lead to more than 100,000 other foreign maids winning rights to residency.

The case has sparked widespread debate on equal treatment for foreign maids.

Critics of the ruling say granting residency to domestic workers would strain the provision of health care, education and public housing.

Immigration laws exclude domestic helpers from seeking permanent residency, while other non-Chinese nationals can obtain residency after working in the city for seven years.

Human rights lawyers and many household workers argue that this is discriminatory.

There are more than 300,000 foreign domestic helpers in Hong Kong, mainly from Indonesia and the Philippines. It is thought that around 120,000 have lived here for more than seven years.

Domestic workers from outside Hong Kong are required to live with their employers and cannot accept other jobs.

Without the right to permanent residency, if a maid is dismissed by her employer, she must find another job as a domestic helper or leave Hong Kong within two weeks.
.

[StylinRed]

the maids are always treated like shit by hongers and their ability to stay in HK was always used against them; glad she won

[q0192837465]

now the question is do those maids want to stay in HK in the first place. Of course there are some who want to stay, but a lot of them have family in Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, or wherever they came from. They are just here for the money and will be gone & live in in a mansion in their own countries once they make enough.

[trancehead]

http://cdn.revscene.ca/forums/customavatars/avatar3852_5.gif
you win OP, that made me laugh

[will068]

now the question is do those maids want to stay in HK in the first place. Of course there are some who want to stay, but a lot of them have family in Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, or wherever they came from. They are just here for the money and will be gone & live in in a mansion in their own countries once they make enough.

In Canada and other industrialized areas in the world, you have the upper class, middle class, and lower class. In 3rd world countries like the Philippines, you have Class A,B,C,D,E. A and B would be what upper and middle class folks here in Canada would make. C,D,E are the lower classes. These maids would help propel their income from E to D or C.

Trust me, the houses are no mansions.

[will068]

the maids are always treated like shit by hongers and their ability to stay in HK was always used against them; glad she won


I feel for these people, the maids are treated like shit even when they go back to the Philippines. The social class they belong to is still at the lower echelons of the social ladder in the Philippines.

For every hallmark-moment happy ending story of how a maid is treated well by her employers in HK, there's a couple more where she is treated like shit. Granted, the employee may have not been doing her job well. The most you do is terminate them, not abuse them. In the Philippines, it's just as bad, except they get paid less.

[StylinRed]

It's getting appealed by the govt. so its not over yet

[SkinnyPupp]

the maids are always treated like shit by hongers and their ability to stay in HK was always used against them; glad she won
I'm glad too, but the truth is, they have very relaxed entry requirements in the first place. So it is kind of 'unbalanced' to let them do so. For most people (like myself) to be allowed to stay here, we have to secure a decently paying job, and show skills and/or education. For them, they just need to be hired as a maid.

That is what complicates things, in my opinion. Of course, for most people here the issue is race, which is sad

[SkinnyPupp]

Also, if you have never lived here or know any hongers, they really do treat their maids BRUTALLY. Of course there are the extreme cases of torture and mistreatment, but I think even OVERALL, most don't think of their maids as being human.

Even our friends, they don't treat them excessively poorly, but they do not consider them equals. For instance, my wife likes to bake, and give baked goods to our friends when we visit them. If they have a maid, she always makes sure that there is enough for everyone. But we often get "why would the maid want this?" or something to that effect. I have also visited places where the maid quarters are no bigger than a closet. Just a bed, with shelves above it. In one case, the made has JUST a bed, which slid out from the wall like a drawer.

And one time my wife was so upset she was crying furiously, as she overheard someone at a nail salon or something, talking about her maid as if she wasn't even a human.

I could go on forever with upsetting instances like this since moving here in 2006. It is pretty bad. So when they get a victory like this, with a chance to make it as something other than someone's pseudo-slave, it makes me happy.

[Manic!]

now the question is do those maids want to stay in HK in the first place. Of course there are some who want to stay, but a lot of them have family in Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, or wherever they came from. They are just here for the money and will be gone & live in in a mansion in their own countries once they make enough.

Immigrants that came from India had a plan to come to Canada make a bunch of money and go back. But most ended up staying her because the quality of live was much better and there was a lot more opportunity for there kids.

Some people from are village in India who lived in Canada decided to retire in India and built a huge house. In two years they stayed there for 7 days. Ran right back to Canada.

[Audi-Quattro]

The maids knew that they were not given the right to permanent residency when they were applying for their visas.

So what makes them think they DESERVE this right all of a sudden?

Hong Kong people are not necessarily against this whole issue because of racism.

They are more concerned about these people coming in and taking away their things; those things can be social welfare, health care, jobs, and etc.

I am really hoping for the government to succeed in appealing because it would just be disastrous to the society when these maids start coming in and bring their fucking husbands and children to live in Hong Kong.

[zonda_s]

Also, if you have never lived here or know any hongers, they really do treat their maids BRUTALLY. Of course there are the extreme cases of torture and mistreatment, but I think even OVERALL, most don't think of their maids as being human.


i think this not only applies to hongers, but others as well. my grandmother in the philippines treats her maids fairly harshly. my family sometimes has to tell her to ease off. when i was living there with my parents, we treated our maids with respect. heck, gave them days off, helped them and their families with what they needed, etc. overall, they're still like us and are earning a living.

[Tim Budong]

The whole entire society in HK view maids as trash. Its a known fact, especially when the communication between the family and the maid is non existent.

There are laws/rules in place to protect these maids from abuse, but many are too scared to say anything because they don't want to go home as most are in hong kong to provide for their families in the first place.

Infact, the number of filipina maids in hong kong is decreasing as India and Indonesian maids are apparently cheaper.

Given this fact, there are in fact many Indians, Islams, and White People like SkinnyPupp who CONTRIBUTE to the overall well being of the Hong Kong People, yet get almost next to nothing in return in terms of social benefits. <--- (Thats what my mother thinks when we went over this issue over dinner today... shes very proud of the people in hk that can live a normal life... in which case, she goes on to say why arnt u back in hk all this BS)

aside from that, theres nothing witty, knowledgable or informative that I can provide into this subject.

Growing up in HK, our family had a maid, but we lived out in the NT by fairview gardens. We actually gave the maid a room.

Now when I go back, i see that a selling feature to a brand new apartment is the maid quarters..it disgusts me

As an analogy to what Audi-Quattro has said, yea most ppl in HK are afraid that their social benefits will disappear. No one wants to see Central everyday like its Sunday in HK

[pinoypixie86]

If shes upset about her rights can't she like just get another job? Go to work in a store or office or like sell real estate or something.

[scottsman]

I never understood why people would want to treat their maids like shit. They take care of your house/apartment, children, personal property, etc... Would you really want to piss someone off that has that much access to your life and family. In some cases they interact more with the children than the parents do.

Perhaps when maids move to another country they are more vulnerable but I have always treated mine like family and never had any issues.

[LSF22]

I never understood why people would want to treat their maids like shit. They take care of your house/apartment, children, personal property, etc... Would you really want to piss someone off that has that much access to your life and family. In some cases they interact more with the children than the parents do.

Perhaps when maids move to another country they are more vulnerable but I have always treated mine like family and never had any issues.

i think this not only applies to hongers, but others as well. my grandmother in the philippines treats her maids fairly harshly. my family sometimes has to tell her to ease off. when i was living there with my parents, we treated our maids with respect. heck, gave them days off, helped them and their families with what they needed, etc. overall, they're still like us and are earning a living.

My family had a maid before, when I was living in Singapore. We always treated them as human beings, and why wouldn't we? They're simply working to earn hard-earned money. My parents used to work full time Mon-Fri so the maid was there to look after my brother and I, as well as keeping the house tidy. We would always give at least one day from the weekend off, sometimes even 2. We always treated each one as part of the family, and in return they work hard, without giving my parents any problems.

This was more than 10 years ago, and we only had maids from Phillipines, so I can't comment on how the ones from Indonesia and other places are. In my 10 years of growing up there, we had 4 or 5 maids, and only 1 caused us problems. In fact, my brother and I interacted quite well with one of them, and she still sends us birthday cards and well-wishes.

[Zyzz]

i treat them like the gnomes in harry potter (you know, u throw them a sock and they become free or some shit? can't remember)

[asian_XL]

no one points a gun at the south-east asian maids to work in HK. Please, get your fact right, around 200,000 foreign maids in HK, that's less than 2% of the total south-east asian maids, other goes to Macau, China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, and MOST go to UK and other European countries and are making 2x more salary. They have A LOT of better choices than staying in HK.

For treating them like shit, yes and no. I do see some hongers ask their maid to work from 6am till 9pm. My family never do that to them, however, we have fired several flip maids who lived with my parents, one got caught fucking with other lesbian maid in the house, one fleed back to Phillipinno after getting a $10,000cnd loan from loan shark, one has mental issue and threatened my mom she would get killed. There are a lot of inner stories, you can't generalize all Hongers treat their maids like shit.


Anyway, back to the case, hk immigration dept had rejected 200 similar cases every year. It was the unwritten rule in HK that they can never abode in HK. They are hired under the contract to work and stay in hongers tiny house, that's why their HKID only has 1 star instead of 3 stars (Hongers). The govt's concern is 200,000 will get the right to stay in hk, if all of them bring their family along, that will be a 800,000 population boom, all the social benefits will go directly to them. We already suffer from poor Mainlanders coming to stay and rape our resources.

[vafanculo]

i hear stories too about filipino maids in HK.

I guess the hongers get maids mixed up with slaves

[SFUguy]

you don't see hongers running to the philippines to be citizens there.

[SkinnyPupp]

So much fail in this thread

[Drow]

there was this one maid who i really liked... she bought me a lot of toys and treated me almost like her own son



and there was that other one that would lock me in the fucking closet.

[Anjew]

The maids knew that they were not given the right to permanent residency when they were applying for their visas.

So what makes them think they DESERVE this right all of a sudden?

Hong Kong people are not necessarily against this whole issue because of racism.

They are more concerned about these people coming in and taking away their things; those things can be social welfare, health care, jobs, and etc.

I am really hoping for the government to succeed in appealing because it would just be disastrous to the society when these maids start coming in and bring their fucking husbands and children to live in Hong Kong.

you speak like a fucking racist yourself.

whats wrong with the "FUCKING" husbands and children? they would also work and pay for the taxes like any fucking honger would.....

If they get hired over a honger, who's fault is that really?

i was born in hong kong and i'm chinese... and i do NOT approve the way MOST hongers treat their maids. Its modern day slavery since its dirt cheap to keep them.


oh and the dirty slang "Bun mui"(flip girl) is part of the everyday language and people say it like its nothing.

[quasi]

I am really hoping for the government to succeed in appealing because it would just be disastrous to the society when these maids start coming in and bring their fucking husbands and children to live in Hong Kong.

How dare they want to be near their husbands and children. What a bunch of needy leeches, off with their heads!

[urban.boi]

I use to have a maid, but we fired her when we started to notice our cash going missing here and there.
Now we just hire temp ones that comes twice a week to clean the house. it's much cheaper and less of a hassle.

[Anjew]

its so ironic to listen to all these fucking hypocrites here.

Most of the Hongers here in vancouver are also IMMIGRANTS, do you see a discrimination in our system like in HK?

We're in the 21st century, that is an archaic system of the past... hope the government's appeal gets shot down.

[Drow]

you speak like a fucking racist yourself.

.....


oh and the dirty slang "Bun mui"(flip girl) is part of the everyday language and people say it like its nothing.

Yah dude in modern chinese culture ( at least for hongers ), chinese people who are called buns take offense

[SFUguy]

its so ironic to listen to all these fucking hypocrites here.

Most of the Hongers here in vancouver are also IMMIGRANTS, do you see a discrimination in our system like in HK?

We're in the 21st century, that is an archaic system of the past... hope the government's appeal gets shot down.

Canada NEEDS immigrants. Have you ever been to Hong Kong? It's packed like sardines.

[Ronin]

Sounds like the maids want to be treated fairly even though their relaxed immigration process makes it incredibly easy to get in the country and stay.

Sounds like the people in Hong Kong don't want to treat their maids like humans and also don't want them to populate HK with their families.

That sounds like a douchey move on the part of HK, really but I sort of understand. Unlike here in Canada where there are many, many different cultures, HK really only has one large dominant one and want to keep their individuality and identity. I get it.

The solution? DON'T HAVE A FUCKING MAID, YOU LAZY HONGERS. Dammit, if Chinese people could be bothered to do their own laundry and make their own dinner, then this wouldn't be an issue. Filipino maids in HK are treated little better than slaves. Seriously, this is damned near slavery in the 21st century. Just don't have a maid and maybe more Chinese kids will be less freakin' wimpy if they had to toast their own Pop Tarts.

[StylinRed]

^^ they could easily hire chinese housekeepers but they're too cheap/prejudiced to do so


and HK really isnt dominant to chinese though... its filled with brits/indians/pakis/south east asians/mainlanders (although chinese hongers like to think they're better than them) all of whom are treated like shit by hongers (except the whites although they have their racist terms for them anyway)

as you can tell i dont really like the bigoted/racist hongers which seem to make up a major portion of them which is why i havent been back to hk in ages even though we have a place there


if the govt wanted they should just legislate it so that its next to impossible to enter the country to work as a maid/butler but then the hongers would be against that too because they dont want to hire hongers to work as housekeepers


ended up being a bit of a rant sorry

[SkinnyPupp]

HK is hardly "filled with" other races. The population is 95% chinese. The next largest ethnicity is actually Filipino at 2%. "westerners" only make up 0.5% of the population.

Also hk does need immigrants. The birth rate is less than half what it needs to be to sustain a productively aged population. Eventually, the majority of the population will be useless seniors.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[jimmerz]

there was this one maid who i really liked... she bought me a lot of toys and treated me almost like her own son



and there was that other one that would lock me in the fucking closet.

random
but this made me lol

[scottsman]

one got caught fucking with other lesbian maid in the house

pics or it didnt happen.

[Nocardia]

The maids knew that they were not given the right to permanent residency when they were applying for their visas.

So what makes them think they DESERVE this right all of a sudden?

Hong Kong people are not necessarily against this whole issue because of racism.

They are more concerned about these people coming in and taking away their things; those things can be social welfare, health care, jobs, and etc.

I am really hoping for the government to succeed in appealing because it would just be disastrous to the society when these maids start coming in and bring their fucking husbands and children to live in Hong Kong.

Came into this thread with the hopes that everyone would be for this verdict. Yet I find comments like this.
Immigration is for people finding a better life elsewhere. Do you believe that there are not currently chinese/african/japanese/russian/australian/american in Vancouver that are taking away jobs/social welfare/health care/ect.? Vancouver and North America was built on immigration and although not necessarily their right, they have earned the ability to become residents because the fact they have a job and contribute to society. Why do your ancestors deserve the RIGHT to have you reside here?

With such ignorant comments, I wish natural selection would work quicker.

[PiuYi]

this thread made me realize RS'ers really like to give verdicts on shit they know absolutely nothing about

[Tim Budong]

Came into this thread with the hopes that everyone would be for this verdict. Yet I find comments like this.
Immigration is for people finding a better life elsewhere. Do you believe that there are not currently chinese/african/japanese/russian/australian/american in Vancouver that are taking away jobs/social welfare/health care/ect.? Vancouver and North America was built on immigration and although not necessarily their right, they have earned the ability to become residents because the fact they have a job and contribute to society. Why do your ancestors deserve the RIGHT to have you reside here?

With such ignorant comments, I wish natural selection would work quicker.

The maids in hong kong may posses the ability to contribute to society in hong kong, but this is the truth

Will the people in Hong Kong give these maids a chance. In their minds, home grown product will always triumph over the minority.

[RFlush]

The solution? DON'T HAVE A FUCKING MAID, YOU LAZY HONGERS. Dammit, if Chinese people could be bothered to do their own laundry and make their own dinner, then this wouldn't be an issue. Filipino maids in HK are treated little better than slaves. Seriously, this is damned near slavery in the 21st century. Just don't have a maid and maybe more Chinese kids will be less freakin' wimpy if they had to toast their own Pop Tarts.
You really have no clue what you are talking about, like most of your posts. You should just STFU before you make yourself look like more of an idiot.

There are barely any daycare centres in HK and there aren't many children facilities for parents. The majority of the HK population live on less than $20,000HKD ($2,700CDN) per month dual income with a huge cost going to rent. Unlike in Canada with many stay at home months with what is it, 10 months maternity leave, people in HK don't have that luxury. If they were to send their kids to daycare, it would be more than $3,500HKD (the cost of hiring a FDH) so it's not economical for them to do so.

Not only that, by employing a FDH it helps provide jobs for those who come to HK for more money. These FDH aren't forced into slavery, they come here on their own will and come because its MORE money for them. It allows them to provide for their homes back in their country of origin.

[bing]

Came into this thread with the hopes that everyone would be for this verdict. Yet I find comments like this.
Immigration is for people finding a better life elsewhere. Do you believe that there are not currently chinese/african/japanese/russian/australian/american in Vancouver that are taking away jobs/social welfare/health care/ect.? Vancouver and North America was built on immigration and although not necessarily their right, they have earned the ability to become residents because the fact they have a job and contribute to society. Why do your ancestors deserve the RIGHT to have you reside here?

With such ignorant comments, I wish natural selection would work quicker.

Take off your Western lens for a minute and look at Canada. This country does not just "let" anyone in that wants a better life for themselves (if we did, im sure every person in a developing country would want to come). While in theory, you are right that many immigrants do leave for a better life, today's immigrants are screened and let in based on the ones that fit the criteria or ones that they have to based on the UN convention of refugees. I assume this fact would give them the legitimacy to be here, which includes future generations. In addition, the two countries pursue different policies, how do you compare apples to oranges?

[asian_XL]

We are better off if the Filipino maids could never come to HK. At least our chicks could stay in the kitchen, it makes our living much more easy. Also it keeps Central clean on Sunday

[Ronin]

You really have no clue what you are talking about, like most of your posts. You should just STFU before you make yourself look like more of an idiot.

There are barely any daycare centres in HK and there aren't many children facilities for parents. The majority of the HK population live on less than $20,000HKD ($2,700CDN) per month dual income with a huge cost going to rent. Unlike in Canada with many stay at home months with what is it, 10 months maternity leave, people in HK don't have that luxury. If they were to send their kids to daycare, it would be more than $3,500HKD (the cost of hiring a FDH) so it's not economical for them to do so.

Not only that, by employing a FDH it helps provide jobs for those who come to HK for more money. These FDH aren't forced into slavery, they come here on their own will and come because its MORE money for them. It allows them to provide for their homes back in their country of origin.

What? There 10-month maternity leave in HK...but regardless, the point is that Filipino maids are treated incredibly poorly in a very second class citizen way. I've been to people's houses and seen the maid rooms that are literally closet-sized. If they're not outright mistreated, they're disregarded and seen as less than a person. They might be receiving higher pay than they would in their homeland but they're still being exploited and marginalized. It's obviously not slavery...they're being paid but the conditions aren't much better. The stories told in this thread about maids being mistreated aren't uncommon. Daycare expense might force many families to hire help but case such as this one reveal how much they want to keep these people under their foot rather than allowing them additional rights.

To be honest, what happens to Filipino maids has no real effect on me but seeing and hearing how they're treated in Hong Kong, I can't help but enjoy seeing their employers all pissed.

[Ronin]

We are better off if the Filipino maids could never come to HK. At least our chicks could stay in the kitchen, it makes our living much more easy. Also it keeps Central clean on Sunday

:IDL

[Culverin]

Also it keeps Central clean on Sunday

I'm confused.

[bing]

I'm confused.

I didn't grow up in HK, but from my travels there, central is one of the busiest places (for tourists and citizens alike) and also one of the well-known train stops. Sunday is also the day that Philippino maids have as a day off, and as such they tend to all hang out in large groups. When I say hang out, its not the typical kind of gathering you have here, where people usually bring only themselves. Since its usually more like a picnic, and due to their size, it can be seem a bit unsightly in some areas, so there are restrictions on where they can congregate. When I was there, they were not allowed to gather in the park because it would interfere with HK citizens right to enjoy the park, thus you tend to see them congregated under bridges or other permitted areas.

[Mr.HappySilp]

It really depends. My aunt in HK have a Filipina maid and I think we treated her pretty well. When my aunts comes back to Van she usually brings the maid with her and go on vacation and stuff. We trested her pretty nice as well. I think my aunt even borrow some money to the maid to help her build a house or something. But then again she been working like 10+ years.

[bing]

It seems that the concern is that the maids are not going through the proper immigration channel to apply for residency and the effect it could have on existing social programs. I say this next paragraph based on the assumption that because HK housing is expensive, it may be unlikely they could afford to take care of themselves and their family if they brought them over. Most likely they, children, or husband do not have any recognized education, so they could not get very good jobs thus leading to an influx of claims for social supports and possibly depress the wages in jobs they can get (as they would be willing to work for less possibly). I don't know if they still do this, but back in my parents generation, if you can't study (shitty grades or no motivation), they put you in trades programs immediately at a young age (say 16 y/o). University in HK is also hard to get in and quite expensive<--? While I don't condone the bad treatment of maids (I treat them like people when I stay at friends places), I just think that an issue that could be this important to a whole society should not be decided based on how people feel about how maids are seen in society and how some of them are treated badly.

Regardless of how you feel about this issue, I think we can all recognize the sacrifices these maids are willing to give up in order to provide for their families is truly admirable. Many of them lose their husbands (b/c they cheat since many don't work and their wives can't visit them very regularly), yet they still think its worth it for the future of their children.

[MoBettah]

They majority of maids are treated well, even if they weren't they would still be leaving that corrupt poor shit hole of a home country in droves because they make 10x more and live 10x better in HK.

My family doesn't have filipino maids (ours are from the mainland), but if we did we'd treat them just like distant family, they do take care of the kids after all.

There certainly needs to be a defined process for Filipino maids to become full permanent residents, it just can't be under the same process as it is for other immigrants. This is only fair as their entrance and work visa standards are different from a regular immigrant.

[bing]

What? There 10-month maternity leave in HK...but regardless, the point is that Filipino maids are treated incredibly poorly in a very second class citizen way. I've been to people's houses and seen the maid rooms that are literally closet-sized. If they're not outright mistreated, they're disregarded and seen as less than a person. They might be receiving higher pay than they would in their homeland but they're still being exploited and marginalized. It's obviously not slavery...they're being paid but the conditions aren't much better. The stories told in this thread about maids being mistreated aren't uncommon. Daycare expense might force many families to hire help but case such as this one reveal how much they want to keep these people under their foot rather than allowing them additional rights.

To be honest, what happens to Filipino maids has no real effect on me but seeing and hearing how they're treated in Hong Kong, I can't help but enjoy seeing their employers all pissed.

I have seen some of the maid's quarters too, but I assume that since the majority of people don't live in houses, and are in apartment's it is just not feasible. It's easy for us living here to say, since we have so much more room, but in HK, the price per sq ft is high. That might explain why, as DarthChilli suggested, developers can offer better maids quarters as part of the package because land in the NT is cheaper.

Whether you see it as exploitation or not, it happens everywhere. Anyone remember the $6 "training wage"? Yes, this can happen locally as well. I don't think its so much a matter of race, as I have known Philippino business men who bring over other philippinos as labour and paid the worker what I considered dirt. So it has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with human nature willing to use opportunities to their benefit.

[Ronin]

I'm confused.

Maids hang out together on their day off. On Sundays, you'll see tons of them gathered just around, hanging out, eating, etc.

[bing]

They majority of maids are treated well, even if they weren't they would still be leaving that corrupt poor shit hole of a home country in droves because they make 10x more and live 10x better in HK.

My family doesn't have filipino maids (ours are from the mainland), but if we did we'd treat them just like distant family, they do take care of the kids after all.

There certainly needs to be a defined process for Filipino maids to become full permanent residents, it just can't be under the same process as it is for other immigrants. This is only fair as their entrance and work visa standards are different from a regular immigrant.

Exactly, the bigger question is, WHY ISN'T THE PHILIPPINE GOVERNMENT DOING MORE FOR ITS PEOPLE?

[bing]

this thread made me realize RS'ers really like to give verdicts on shit they know absolutely nothing about

Glad you woke up, this actually happens in a lot of threads. You get tons of misinformed, uneducated, or illogical comments. Taylor pointed this out, and based on the 2006 census only ~28% (25-34 age bracket) of the population have at least a bachelor's degree. It's even worse ~18% when you count the population from 15 and up. Plus you need to factor out those who slept through school and didn't learn anything. Not saying you need an education to be knowledgeable, but it tends to help a lot. The great thing is, if you have half a brain, you can evaluate every comment and know which ones to never take seriously.

[RFlush]

What? There 10-month maternity leave in HK...but regardless, the point is that Filipino maids are treated incredibly poorly in a very second class citizen way. I've been to people's houses and seen the maid rooms that are literally closet-sized. If they're not outright mistreated, they're disregarded and seen as less than a person. They might be receiving higher pay than they would in their homeland but they're still being exploited and marginalized. It's obviously not slavery...they're being paid but the conditions aren't much better. The stories told in this thread about maids being mistreated aren't uncommon. Daycare expense might force many families to hire help but case such as this one reveal how much they want to keep these people under their foot rather than allowing them additional rights.

To be honest, what happens to Filipino maids has no real effect on me but seeing and hearing how they're treated in Hong Kong, I can't help but enjoy seeing their employers all pissed.

What did I tell you about replying will just make you look like an idiot?

HK Maternity leave consists of 10 weeks and not at full pay:
http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/ConciseGuide/06.pdf

FDH (not all are Filipinos) have their option to come to HK or not. This isn't US circa 1800, they are not slaves. They come here knowing they will be placed in a 1 bedroom (sometimes sharing) place in a house. They can choose NOT to come here if they don't want too. It's the same as anyone else going to another country for work, they have the option to go or not. Stop taking your western values of a big house into consideration. I live in HK in a small ass flat and pay just as much as a nice apartment would be back in Vancouver. Does that mean I have stepped down? No.

Yes there are a lot of bad stories you hear about helpers, but there are also good stories. But that isn't the issue, the fact is migration is everywhere and it's on people's free will. People from SEA countries line up to be helpers in HK because they know it is better off for them and their families. Things work different in HK than they do in Canada but it's the way it is here. With the medium income being so low, FDH is just part of the culture so stop being such a culture imperialist. Some people DO treat their FDH very kindly as well. Don't forget, they don't have to pay for food or shelter. If anything, I would divert my attention those who are working on minimal wage and still have larger expenses.

[BlackZRoadster]

Why do ppl feel sorry for these maids? They have a choice to be there and chose to because of the money. They make way more than back home.

Let's says I went to sum stupid rich country and made triple the average Canadian income a year as a housekeeper who lived in small quarters with no freedom, would you guys feel sorry for me?

He'll NO right? I can go back to Canada if I felt I wasn't treated fairly and quit the stinking job.
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[Ronin]

What did I tell you about replying will just make you look like an idiot?

HK Maternity leave consists of 10 weeks and not at full pay:
http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/ConciseGuide/06.pdf

FDH (not all are Filipinos) have their option to come to HK or not. This isn't US circa 1800, they are not slaves. They come here knowing they will be placed in a 1 bedroom (sometimes sharing) place in a house. They can choose NOT to come here if they don't want too. It's the same as anyone else going to another country for work, they have the option to go or not. Stop taking your western values of a big house into consideration. I live in HK in a small ass flat and pay just as much as a nice apartment would be back in Vancouver. Does that mean I have stepped down? No.

Yes there are a lot of bad stories you hear about helpers, but there are also good stories. But that isn't the issue, the fact is migration is everywhere and it's on people's free will. People from SEA countries line up to be helpers in HK because they know it is better off for them and their families. Things work different in HK than they do in Canada but it's the way it is here. With the medium income being so low, FDH is just part of the culture so stop being such a culture imperialist. Some people DO treat their FDH very kindly as well. Don't forget, they don't have to pay for food or shelter. If anything, I would divert my attention those who are working on minimal wage and still have larger expenses.

LOL the funny thing is I went here: Labour Department - Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57h_whole.htm) and didn't read correctly.

I see your point, Western values and all but I don't hear many good stories about people treating their maids well. Even immigrants in Vancouver speak of the maids in quite a demeaning and somewhat racist tone. I don't know...I said I realize that they make more money in Hong Kong than they otherwise would but the issues brought up by this "industry" just seem to ride the fine line of human rights more often than not.

[vafanculo]

Why do ppl feel sorry for these maids? They have a choice to be there and chose to because of the money. They make way more than back home.

Let's says I went to sum stupid rich country and made triple the average Canadian income a year as a housekeeper who lived in small quarters with no freedom, would you guys feel sorry for me?

He'll NO right? I can go back to Canada if I felt I wasn't treated fairly and quit the stinking job.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

I feel sorry because they HAVE to, not WANT to. Sure, they have a choice, but does making the right choice in a shitty situation subject you to be treated like an animal?

Not everyone is born in houses with silverspoons. People are set apart by different classes, but at the end of the day, we all shit the same way. The one thing we should ALL have in common is the right to be treated fair.

I understand life is not fair, and different countries different rules, but that won't stop me rooting for the little guy.
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[terkan]

Glad you woke up, this actually happens in a lot of threads. You get tons of misinformed, uneducated, or illogical comments. Taylor pointed this out, and based on the 2006 census only ~28% (25-34 age bracket) of the population have at least a bachelor's degree. It's even worse ~18% when you count the population from 15 and up. Plus you need to factor out those who slept through school and didn't learn anything. Not saying you need an education to be knowledgeable, but it tends to help a lot. The great thing is, if you have half a brain, you can evaluate every comment and know which ones to never take seriously.

No shit sherlock. How many 15-20 year olds would be done university by then? They'd be in university by 11-16. /facepalm
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[bing]

No shit sherlock. How many 15-20 year olds would be done university by then? They'd be in university by 11-16. /facepalm
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

thanks for proving to everyone that you're a selective reader. you do know that 15 and up also counts everyone up to the oldest person in society right? :failed: The age brackets in the census are actually created by the StatsCan (i.e. 15 and up, 25-34, etc.), so I don't make them up but it does not go from 15-20 only like you imply. Everyone knows that people graduate HS at around ~17-18 and if done on time, can be out by 22, or 21 if your my uncle.

I think that the 25-34 category simply proves that more people now ~1/3 complete a 4yr degree, and the 15 and up also suggests that previously far fewer did so in the upper age brackets (i.e. your parents generation).

[terkan]

thanks for proving to everyone that you're a selective reader. you do know that 15 and up also counts everyone up to the oldest person in society right? :failed: The age brackets in the census are actually created by the StatsCan (i.e. 15 and up, 25-34, etc.), so I don't make them up but it does not go from 15-20 only like you imply. Everyone knows that people graduate HS at around ~17-18 and if done on time, can be out by 22, or 21 if your my uncle.

I think that the 25-34 category simply proves that more people now ~1/3 complete a 4yr degree, and the 15 and up also suggests that previously far fewer did so in the upper age brackets (i.e. your parents generation).

If your 15 and up implies 15-100, then how relevant is your information to this thread? What proportion of revscene would be in the 30+ age bracket?

You're dealing with a population that I would say would be between 15-30, and you give stats for people who are from 15- 100. Don't post useless stats. Clearly your bachelor's degree, if you even have one didn't teach you what facts are applicable and which ones are irrelevant.

If you still don't understand why your argument is stupid, let me break it down for you.

Premise 1: Statscan shows that only 18% of Canadians 15+ have bachelor's degrees
Premise 2: Revscene members are Canadians
Conclusion: Only 18% of revscene members have bachelor's degrees.

EXCEPT REVSCENE MEMBERS =/= population aged 15+; therefore your argument fails... /facepalm

[asian_XL]

Why do ppl feel sorry for these maids? They have a choice to be there and chose to because of the money. They make way more than back home.

Let's says I went to sum stupid rich country and made triple the average Canadian income a year as a housekeeper who lived in small quarters with no freedom, would you guys feel sorry for me?

He'll NO right? I can go back to Canada if I felt I wasn't treated fairly and quit the stinking job.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

The law is fair to them, HK basic law says whoever stayed in hk for 7 yrs are eligble to apply citizenship. The govt's only concern is the burden of social welfare needs to support these people. The Hongers are mad, when the lower class already get no benefit nowaday, their public housing application need to wait for 8-9 years; pregnant women get no space to deliver in local hospitals, these are not assumptions, but real facts. It's a large impact to get instant 200,000 population boom in an already packed city, and x4 for potential family members get instant free ticket to HK. However, the law is the law, I'd bring popcorn and ready for the CFA judgement.

BTW, the reality is, once these maid get the right of abode in Hong Kong, they will be protected by minium wage. Their basic salary will be jacked up 2x and it is unaffordable for most families, which menas they will lose their maid job then they all will have to find a place to live.

*picture below* This is where a lot of low class Hongers live.
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/images/apple-photos/apple/20090831/large/31la3p3.jpg

[Excelsis]

did anyone say pinoypixie86 :troll:

[pinoypixie86]

EW I'm not a maid no way hello I have class

[TOS'd]

EW I'm not a maid no way hello I have class

It's okay, I still believe in you. Doesn't matter what all these haters have to say.

[SkinnyPupp]

The law is fair to them, HK basic law says whoever stayed in hk for 7 yrs are eligble to apply citizenship. The govt's only concern is the burden of social welfare needs to support these people. The Hongers are mad, when the lower class already get no benefit nowaday, their public housing application need to wait for 8-9 years; pregnant women get no space to deliver in local hospitals, these are not assumptions, but real facts. It's a large impact to get instant 200,000 population boom in an already packed city, and x4 for potential family members get instant free ticket to HK. However, the law is the law, I'd bring popcorn and ready for the CFA judgement.

BTW, the reality is, once these maid get the right of abode in Hong Kong, they will be protected by minium wage. Their basic salary will be jacked up 2x and it is unaffordable for most families, which menas they will lose their maid job then they all will have to find a place to live.

*picture below* This is where a lot of low class Hongers live.
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/images/apple-photos/apple/20090831/large/31la3p3.jpg
I don't get it. You've made so many mind-numbingly stupid comments in this thread, then out of nowhere you make a good post like this. It's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr..... Well you know ;)

[bing]

If your 15 and up implies 15-100, then how relevant is your information to this thread? What proportion of revscene would be in the 30+ age bracket?

You're dealing with a population that I would say would be between 15-30, and you give stats for people who are from 15- 100. Don't post useless stats. Clearly your bachelor's degree, if you even have one didn't teach you what facts are applicable and which ones are irrelevant.

If you still don't understand why your argument is stupid, let me break it down for you.

Premise 1: Statscan shows that only 18% of Canadians 15+ have bachelor's degrees
Premise 2: Revscene members are Canadians
Conclusion: Only 18% of revscene members have bachelor's degrees.

EXCEPT REVSCENE MEMBERS =/= population aged 15+; therefore your argument fails... /facepalm

You have to look at the context of my comments, yes it has nothing to do with the original topic, but this is a forum and sometimes comments can be directed at other comments within it, which is why I quoted so there wouldn't be misunderstandings. My comments were directed to this:

"this thread made me realize RS'ers really like to give verdicts on shit they know absolutely nothing about". If you've been around long enough I think you can agree with me here. I also tend to use the word "assume", highly likely/unlikely when im not 100% sure so people don't take my comments at face value.

While my facts can be independently verified, yours can't as they are all assumptions. Don't forget, we actually do have mature posters as well as younger ones. You're probably right that it is highly likely that the demographics here are younger (i.e. and if the entire RS was in the sample, it could not be an accurate representation of the population, Stats 101). Since your implying that the majority of the population here is likely to be 15-30, 1/3 of the 25-34 would be knowledgeable, while 1/3 of the 18-24 are in the process of acquiring knowledge. Even if we take the middle ground of ~18% of 15-24 and ~28% of 25-34, we would arrive at 23%. That still leaves a sizable population for why people leave comments that make no sense.

[Anjew]

EW I'm not a maid no way hello I have class

That statement is full of class.

[will068]

EW I'm not a maid no way hello I have class

Just curious, what's your height and skin colour ?

[BlackZRoadster]

EW I'm not a maid no way hello I have class

ppl with class do not need to say it out

[static]

If shes upset about her rights can't she like just get another job? Go to work in a store or office or like sell real estate or something.

Your brain has not developed enough to be born in 86, I suggest you put yourself back in the oven for another 5-10 years.

[RFlush]

To be honest, I agree with Asian_XL.

I would rather have the HK Government give more benefits to those who are worse off that are from HK. People become FDH because they often find it better in HK than their country of origin, just like other expats. Except FDH have it easier to come to HK compared to those who are on working visas.

Whether you are from Philippines, Indeoneasia, Malaysia or any other country, if you are a qualified worker with skills that can help contribute to HK's economy, you are more than welcome here on a working visa. But FDH come here on an easier visa and by allowing them ROA rights, what is to stop people from other countries who want to come to HK to do the same.

Regardless, expats or locals who employ FDH should treat them with respect. They are people, and they should be treated as such. They are the ones who are taking care of your most precious, why would you want to treat them like shit is beyond me. But this is another topic with nothing to do with giving them resident rights.

[fT-z33wor]

Abusing workers in Dubai - YouTube

this is a video news clip of filipino workers being abused in dubai, and its much worse than it is in HK cause they're actually getting beaten black and blue according interview sources

[asian_XL]

I don't get it. You've made so many mind-numbingly stupid comments in this thread, then out of nowhere you make a good post like this. It's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr..... Well you know ;)

Protecting the hongers' interest is what the HK govt needs to do. As a Honger, I don't see why it get critizied for continuing the appeal to CFA. We have already learned a valuable lesson opening up the floodgate for mainlanders, so we shall not let the same nightmare happens again. Problem?

Go ahead and call us racists, some people have gone through the proper immigration procedures to become a Honger (like those Pakistans, Indians, Nepalese in HK) and HK offers absolute equal opportunties to them.

[SkinnyPupp]

:seriously: Did you even read my first reply to this thread?

[Spartacus]

Off-topic question. Do Vietnamese refugees children who were born in hong-kong during the 1980s, where they relocated to a different country afterward, have hk-citizenship rights?

[Zyzz]

The problem is that it is way too easy for flipping maids to come to HK. Hongers just look at their photos, pick one, and these maids can now come to work as maids, without background checking and all that stuff. As a result they only got 1 star on their HKID

However article 24 of Basic Law lets them become PR after living for 7 years, with valid travel proof and place of residence... I can see the HK gov't using these 2 points to try overturning in CFA. Why should these maids enjoy equal PR application rights when professionals and bankers have it harder to enter HK.

Worst comes to worst, our CE will ask NPCSC to step in and give CFA the middle finger if we lose again, just like the Ng Ka Ling case.

[goo3]

No shit sherlock. How many 15-20 year olds would be done university by then? They'd be in university by 11-16. /facepalm
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

If your 15 and up implies 15-100, then how relevant is your information to this thread? What proportion of revscene would be in the 30+ age bracket?

You're dealing with a population that I would say would be between 15-30, and you give stats for people who are from 15- 100. Don't post useless stats. Clearly your bachelor's degree, if you even have one didn't teach you what facts are applicable and which ones are irrelevant.

If you still don't understand why your argument is stupid, let me break it down for you.

Premise 1: Statscan shows that only 18% of Canadians 15+ have bachelor's degrees
Premise 2: Revscene members are Canadians
Conclusion: Only 18% of revscene members have bachelor's degrees.

EXCEPT REVSCENE MEMBERS =/= population aged 15+; therefore your argument fails... /facepalm

:heckno:

Dude, stop taking Philosophy. That shit is useless.

[RFlush]

The problem is that it is way too easy for flipping maids to come to HK. Hongers just look at their photos, pick one, and these maids can now come to work as maids, without background checking and all that stuff. As a result they only got 1 star on their HKID

However article 24 of Basic Law lets them become PR after living for 7 years, with valid travel proof and place of residence... I can see the HK gov't using these 2 points to try overturning in CFA. Why should these maids enjoy equal PR application rights when professionals and bankers have it harder to enter HK.

Worst comes to worst, our CE will ask NPCSC to step in and give CFA the middle finger if we lose again, just like the Ng Ka Ling case.

They do not get 1 start on their hkid, 1 star means the holder is under the age of 18 and is allowed a two way permit to mainland aka is a chinese national.
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[Zyzz]

FDH are also included as 1 star.. check your maid right now

[RFlush]

FDH are also included as 1 star.. check your maid right now

Please do not give out incorrect information if you have no clue what you are talking about:

http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/idcard/hkic/smartid.htm
** the holder is of the age of 18 or over and is eligible for a Hong Kong Re-entry Permit.
* the holder is between the age of 11 and 17 and is eligible for a Hong Kong Re-entry Permit.
A the holder has the right of abode in the HKSAR.
C the holder's stay in the HKSAR is limited by the Director of Immigration at the time of his registration of the card.
R the holder has a right to land in the HKSAR.
U the holder's stay in the HKSAR is not limited by the Director of Immigration at the time of his registration of the card.
Z the holder's place of birth reported is Hong Kong.
X the holder's place of birth reported is the Mainland.
W the holder's place of birth reported is the region of Macau.
O the holder's place of birth reported is in other countries.
B the holder's reported date of birth or place of birth has been changed since his/ her first registration.
N the holder's reported name has been changed since his/ her first registration.


a FDH will have the symbols of CO on their HKID and will not have any stars.

[clee0302]

I agree that lotta HK people treat maids like shit, but my aunt and family friends in HK had maids and they treated her like family. I think it's those greedy maids that's messing around with HK law

[bing]

:heckno:

Dude, stop taking Philosophy. That shit is useless.

+1 Going by his logic, he failed the course.
:alone:

[alpinestars]

The law is fair to them, HK basic law says whoever stayed in hk for 7 yrs are eligble to apply citizenship. The govt's only concern is the burden of social welfare needs to support these people. The Hongers are mad, when the lower class already get no benefit nowaday, their public housing application need to wait for 8-9 years; pregnant women get no space to deliver in local hospitals, these are not assumptions, but real facts. It's a large impact to get instant 200,000 population boom in an already packed city, and x4 for potential family members get instant free ticket to HK. However, the law is the law, I'd bring popcorn and ready for the CFA judgement.

BTW, the reality is, once these maid get the right of abode in Hong Kong, they will be protected by minium wage. Their basic salary will be jacked up 2x and it is unaffordable for most families, which menas they will lose their maid job then they all will have to find a place to live.

*picture below* This is where a lot of low class Hongers live.
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/images/apple-photos/apple/20090831/large/31la3p3.jpg

I notice a motor vehicle high accident rate/high tax avoidance rate from foreigners based out of asia. the canadian government should protect it's health-care system by limiting the amount of foreign immigrants from this continent. we're talking about people's lives here, pregnant women being forced into labour inside public washrooms because these immigrants are sucking up our resources...

[underscore]

Glad you woke up, this actually happens in a lot of threads. You get tons of misinformed, uneducated, or illogical comments. Taylor pointed this out, and based on the 2006 census only ~28% (25-34 age bracket) of the population have at least a bachelor's degree. It's even worse ~18% when you count the population from 15 and up. Plus you need to factor out those who slept through school and didn't learn anything. Not saying you need an education to be knowledgeable, but it tends to help a lot. The great thing is, if you have half a brain, you can evaluate every comment and know which ones to never take seriously.

not everyone wants a degree, and not everyone with a degree is actually that intelligent outside of books. You also haven't stated what other countries are at, or made any note of the fact that a post-secondary education wasn't as big of a thing in the past...

[SkinnyPupp]

Arguing about degrees with a graduate is like arguing about christianity with a christian. DON'T BOTHER.

[terkan]

:heckno:

Dude, stop taking Philosophy. That shit is useless.

You gotta take it for electives in healthcare professions. Plus I was pointing out how irrelevant his stats were unless you want to agree with his statement that you are retarded.

[BoredAtWork]

The law is fair to them, HK basic law says whoever stayed in hk for 7 yrs are eligble to apply citizenship. The govt's only concern is the burden of social welfare needs to support these people. The Hongers are mad, when the lower class already get no benefit nowaday, their public housing application need to wait for 8-9 years; pregnant women get no space to deliver in local hospitals, these are not assumptions, but real facts. It's a large impact to get instant 200,000 population boom in an already packed city, and x4 for potential family members get instant free ticket to HK. However, the law is the law, I'd bring popcorn and ready for the CFA judgement.

BTW, the reality is, once these maid get the right of abode in Hong Kong, they will be protected by minium wage. Their basic salary will be jacked up 2x and it is unaffordable for most families, which menas they will lose their maid job then they all will have to find a place to live.

*picture below* This is where a lot of low class Hongers live.
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/images/apple-photos/apple/20090831/large/31la3p3.jpg


Not really. They have done survey on this. If the contract is redone with minimal wage, Owners can easily tax them back on Shelter and food expense. It will never work out to the benefit of the maids in terms of pay increases.

What I am really pissed is that The maids knew that they were not given the right to permanent residency when they were applying for their visas. This is the exact terms of foreign labor when they signed up.

These maids are hired foreign workers. They are not (and are not qualified) for immigration. This is the terms given and they accepted when they signed the Visa.

Think of it this way, if basic law and rights are given to these people, not only will it have a huge impact on the welfare and social funding in HK, These people never paid taxes to HK government. Look at the picture above from asian_XL, the social funding and welfare in HK is already next to null for low income citizens.

It will also serve as a way for people to freely "immigrate" into HK. As long as there is a barer for work contract, they will be granted through. The whole immigration system of scanning for qualified citizen goes down the drain, and this turns into legal human smuggling.

Its sort of like the Vietnamese Refugees smuggling back in the 60's to 80's for Hong Kong, but this time they bend the law to do it instead of jumping through wires. If anyone knows of the Refugees back in the days, you would know how much impact it costed the city.

Think of Vancouver suddenly flooded with non tax paying Chinese people, all asking for housing, healthcare, EI, and retirement benefits. Oh wait, that's already been done :smug:

[RFlush]

To be honest, HK already has one of the most relaxed immigration rules. What other country can you simply marry someone who has a HKID and get residency rights with barely any check and within a month.

Or be able to buy resident rights or be able to work in HK by just being 'white' ROFL.

[Culture_Vulture]

:lol I read this thread and this was the only thing I could think of

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/10361105.jpg