[Brianrietta]

One of the most prolific thinkers and debaters of our time. There was nothing quite like watching him cut apart unprepared people. RIP CH.

When a Christian claimed that God had given him "throat" cancer to punish the "one part of his body he used for blasphemy", he replied: "My so-far uncancerous throat... is not at all the only organ with which I have blasphemed."

Describing heaven: "Endless praise and adoration, limitless abnegation and abjection of self; a celestial North Korea."

"The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics."

"Nothing optional - from homosexuality to adultery - is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate."

"The one unforgivable sin is to be boring." (A favourite saying of his mother's that he often quoted.)

On Sarah Palin: "I think she's a completely straightforward cynic and opportunist and I think she's cashing out... She's made a fortune and she'll make another. But she's not actually going to do the hard work of trying to lead or build a movement."

"A life that partakes even a little of friendship, love, irony, humour, parenthood, literature, and music, and the chance to take part in battles for the liberation of others cannot be called 'meaningless' except if the person living it is also an existentialist and elects to call it so. It could be that all existence is a pointless joke, but it is not in fact possible to live one's everyday life as if this were so."

On cancer and dying: "I burned the candle at both ends and it often gave a lovely light."

[freakshow]

IMO, the smartest of the new atheists

[SkinnyPupp]

Loved this tweet:

Hitch dies. #GodisNotGreat trends. Religious people threaten violence. Twitter yanks trend. I think Hitch just won a debate post-mortem.

[Matsuda]

Here's a video of him at debates

LiveLeak.com - Christopher Hitchens (RIP) - Best of the Hitchslap

[SkinnyPupp]

http://i.imgur.com/w4ovc.png

[freakshow]

Loved this tweet:

Hitch dies. #GodisNotGreat trends. Religious people threaten violence. Twitter yanks trend. I think Hitch just won a debate post-mortem.
lol.. if you actually read the 'violent' tweets with #godisnotgreat, it's pretty obvious that it's satire at best, misunderstood Christianity at worst.

My favourite tweets are the atheists, most of whom have probably never read or listened to hitchens, stating how peaceful atheists are :rolleyes:

[Culverin]

RIP, he was a smart man that challenged my faith.
He fought against religious intolerance.
You just don't meet too many "celebrities" that are logically sound nowadays.

He was the hammer to logic's anvil the helped me figure out just where facts end and faith begins.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[StylinRed]

http://i.imgur.com/w4ovc.png

rofl that was funny though



he was a george bush supporter though so... :whistle: (and he thinks the Lancet is BS...)

george galloway>hitchens

although they didnt go at it too often


he's just a really angry guy probably because he is gay and went through a lot of shit (no pun intended) as a kid due to the church so he got really really smart to fuel his anger (and so his intellect is therefore flawed) so that he could win in debates etc through his acquired knowledge; although he didnt win all his debates (Galloway, etc) but he's definitely a hero for those who think alike

[SkinnyPupp]

Yes he was a very angry guy, and not everyone needs to be 'against' theism. But we DO need people like that to raise awareness. I don't think every atheist should follow his 'new atheist' movement, but like I said, it's important to have some balance going forward.

Eventually we probably do need to abolish religion (whether 'good' or 'bad') for our species to move on from being a bunch of meat-insects fighting over arbitrary ideas, but that won't happen any time soon.

[The7even]

Eventually we probably do need to abolish religion (whether 'good' or 'bad') for our species to move on from being a bunch of meat-insects fighting over arbitrary ideas, but that won't happen any time soon.

But that's wrong.

I'm really not sure why atheists seem to lose their logic when it comes to religion and faith.

Most atheists are very logical and have a good sense of self, what's right and what's wrong. They also tend to notice bullshit very easily and are 100% open minded and accept facts as they reveal them selves, whether it be scientific or whatever.

But when it comes to religion, you all seem to lose your logic and just say the silliest of things.

I don't understand why you guys can't detect the pattern here, when in everything else, you can easily root out the problem.

It's as if with religion, you all just take the easy way out and say "Fuck it, it's religion, abolish religion".

Let me show you how you're wrong.


Your error is in having faith in Humanity.
You do realize that religion is not the problem, actually, it never has been.

The problem is the people you're actually holding up on a pedestal.. us.. Humans.
That is the problem.
You assume, for one reason or another that humanity will wake up and smell the coffee if we all were raised without religion in our homes and if religion was abolished, we would all of a sudden be that much better off.
Or maybe you don't maybe you think progress will happen slowly and there won't be any wars fought over religion, etc. What ever you're thinking, it's wrong.


You're mixing two elements together and when the result turns bad, you're blaming it all on one element.
It's like mixing hot Oil and Water and when it blows up in your face, you go "Oh my fucking God, Water is so fucking dangerous, get rid of it!"

The fact is, both (for the lack of a better comparison) are good. It's what we decide to do with either of these elements that matters and where the real issue lies.

I don't understand why you guys can make so much damn sense and then with this you stumble all over your selves and take the easy way out.

Be humble and stop being so proud of humanity, we REALLY aren't better than monkeys, I thought you guys knew this already.

Some of you will look at Christianity and point out inconsistencies. This is also a wrong way of proving your point.

I believe the bible was re-written many times (I apologize if this offends any Christians) so I do take things from it with a grain of salt.

But what about my faith (which I don't think is "better" I just think it's the right route to the same conclusion), Islam. It doesn't teach that homosexuals go to hell ( a shocker right?). In fact, BECAUSE of my faith, I believe that Homosexuals are no better and no worse than me, a heterosexual. And that Heterosexuals are no better or worse than a homosexual. Same goes with races. All races are the same.

You know what else is funny. Christianity teaches that all races ARE the same and that we're all brothers.
But you know who waged wars and pillaged Africa a couple of hundred years ago (still goes on today but on a much smaller scale), so called Christians.
You know who also slaughtered innocents and killed over pieces of dirt and rock? Muslims did, atheists did, everyone did.
Even when their own faith said NOT to do that.

Yes, Muslims converted others by force, Christians did it too..
Islam states that there is no compulsion in religion.
Yet almost all of these fuckers still try to shove it down your fucking throat.

In Islam it is mentioned that atheists, christains, jews, blacks, whites, whatever.. everyone has the same chance to enter (you can laugh , I really don't mind) heaven..
Yet Muslims behead anyone that converts..
They kill anyone suspected of being gay, they punish too easily and are happy to kill anyone .. ALL of this, while the book is a million times more lenient than they ever will be. And in most cases the book is 100% against them and their deeds..
But religion needs to be abolished?
No, actually, all facts point out that Man is the problem. His pride, his stupidity, his greed (welcome to today's economy), his belief that he is the best and that he deserves everything and that he is right and everyone else is wrong and the he knows whats best (converting others by force) and etc..
And yet religion is the problem?

I will grant you this, good sir. Christianity does have loopholes when looked at from a scientific angle.. But I am not Christian and Christianity is not the only faith you should be using to determine whether YOU are going to believe in anything.

If all atheists are proud of science, then you owe it to your selves to look at any other religion, actually, ALL of them, and then determine whether you believe in anything or not. But when you do look through all the other faiths, do it as if you truly believed in science and what science teaches, and look at each of these faiths without any pre-concieved conclusions, look at these faiths without first creating your own hypothesis, do it properly and if then you decide it is not for you, then good.. you've learned something at least in the process.

Yes, we all know theres a lot of guys like Rick Perry, and Mahmoud Ahmedinijad.. but please remember, he's a stupid and thick headed human being first and a supposed member of Islam, second.
It's his ego and character and his personality and his soul that are fucked and evil, he interprets Islam through all those filters.


Lastly, if you do read the Quran, please read ONLY the Quran. Not anything else written by faggot old men with little dicks who fuck camels and are afraid of any female progress because they believe such a thing would threaten their choke hold on power.
If I had the power, I would murder all of these fucking so called "scholars", even though my faith would urge me to not be the judge, I'd still do it. (I hope that proves my point also).

I see your drive and want for a better tomorrow, and I love the end-result you're trying to reach, but the method's of which you'd implement for doing so are completely wrong and would do nothing.

Thank's for reading, if you did. I await your reply.

[LiquidTurbo]

But that's wrong.

I'm really not sure why atheists seem to lose their logic when it comes to religion and faith.

Most atheists are very logical and have a good sense of self, what's right and what's wrong. They also tend to notice bullshit very easily and are 100% open minded and accept facts as they reveal them selves, whether it be scientific or whatever.

But when it comes to religion, you all seem to lose your logic and just say the silliest of things.

I don't understand why you guys can't detect the pattern here, when in everything else, you can easily root out the problem.

It's as if with religion, you all just take the easy way out and say "Fuck it, it's religion, abolish religion".

Let me show you how you're wrong.


Your error is in having faith in Humanity.
You do realize that religion is not the problem, actually, it never has been.

The problem is the people you're actually holding up on a pedestal.. us.. Humans.
That is the problem.
You assume, for one reason or another that humanity will wake up and smell the coffee if we all were raised without religion in our homes and if religion was abolished, we would all of a sudden be that much better off.
Or maybe you don't maybe you think progress will happen slowly and there won't be any wars fought over religion, etc. What ever you're thinking, it's wrong.


You're mixing two elements together and when the result turns bad, you're blaming it all on one element.
It's like mixing hot Oil and Water and when it blows up in your face, you go "Oh my fucking God, Water is so fucking dangerous, get rid of it!"

The fact is, both (for the lack of a better comparison) are good. It's what we decide to do with either of these elements that matters and where the real issue lies.

I don't understand why you guys can make so much damn sense and then with this you stumble all over your selves and take the easy way out.

Be humble and stop being so proud of humanity, we REALLY aren't better than monkeys, I thought you guys knew this already.

Some of you will look at Christianity and point out inconsistencies. This is also a wrong way of proving your point.

I believe the bible was re-written many times (I apologize if this offends any Christians) so I do take things from it with a grain of salt.

But what about my faith (which I don't think is "better" I just think it's the right route to the same conclusion), Islam. It doesn't teach that homosexuals go to hell ( a shocker right?). In fact, BECAUSE of my faith, I believe that Homosexuals are no better and no worse than me, a heterosexual. And that Heterosexuals are no better or worse than a homosexual. Same goes with races. All races are the same.

You know what else is funny. Christianity teaches that all races ARE the same and that we're all brothers.
But you know who waged wars and pillaged Africa a couple of hundred years ago (still goes on today but on a much smaller scale), so called Christians.
You know who also slaughtered innocents and killed over pieces of dirt and rock? Muslims did, atheists did, everyone did.
Even when their own faith said NOT to do that.

Yes, Muslims converted others by force, Christians did it too..
Islam states that there is no compulsion in religion.
Yet almost all of these fuckers still try to shove it down your fucking throat.

In Islam it is mentioned that atheists, christains, jews, blacks, whites, whatever.. everyone has the same chance to enter (you can laugh , I really don't mind) heaven..
Yet Muslims behead anyone that converts..
They kill anyone suspected of being gay, they punish too easily and are happy to kill anyone .. ALL of this, while the book is a million times more lenient than they ever will be. And in most cases the book is 100% against them and their deeds..
But religion needs to be abolished?
No, actually, all facts point out that Man is the problem. His pride, his stupidity, his greed (welcome to today's economy), his belief that he is the best and that he deserves everything and that he is right and everyone else is wrong and the he knows whats best (converting others by force) and etc..
And yet religion is the problem?

I will grant you this, good sir. Christianity does have loopholes when looked at from a scientific angle.. But I am not Christian and Christianity is not the only faith you should be using to determine whether YOU are going to believe in anything.

If all atheists are proud of science, then you owe it to your selves to look at any other religion, actually, ALL of them, and then determine whether you believe in anything or not. But when you do look through all the other faiths, do it as if you truly believed in science and what science teaches, and look at each of these faiths without any pre-concieved conclusions, look at these faiths without first creating your own hypothesis, do it properly and if then you decide it is not for you, then good.. you've learned something at least in the process.

Yes, we all know theres a lot of guys like Rick Perry, and Mahmoud Ahmedinijad.. but please remember, he's a stupid and thick headed human being first and a supposed member of Islam, second.
It's his ego and character and his personality and his soul that are fucked and evil, he interprets Islam through all those filters.


Lastly, if you do read the Quran, please read ONLY the Quran. Not anything else written by faggot old men with little dicks who fuck camels and are afraid of any female progress because they believe such a thing would threaten their choke hold on power.
If I had the power, I would murder all of these fucking so called "scholars", even though my faith would urge me to not be the judge, I'd still do it. (I hope that proves my point also).

I see your drive and want for a better tomorrow, and I love the end-result you're trying to reach, but the method's of which you'd implement for doing so are completely wrong and would do nothing.

Thank's for reading, if you did. I await your reply.

“If every trace of every single religion were wiped out and nothing were passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again. There might be some other nonsense in its place, but not that exact nonsense. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it all out again.”

[Firmware]

religion ? :fuckthatshit::fuckthatshit:

science? :megusta::fulloffuck::sweetjesus::thumbs::fuckyea: :accepted:

[The7even]

“If every trace of every single religion were wiped out and nothing were passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again. There might be some other nonsense in its place, but not that exact nonsense. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it all out again.”

Try again, that's not even an argument. Christopher Hitchins was debating retards, no one really worthy of debate. It's why he always won, and it's why he loved debating them, because they were pretty stupid.

I'm not saying he was taking the easy way out, he wasn't, but he debated them to show their stupidity, which I side with him on.

But your argument is terrible and is only a statement. Nothing else.
That's like me saying "water is wet".


It is also a very wrong argument.

Hitchins, like you, didn't take in to account time when he made that statement.
If somehow antimatter took out all matter, you wouldn't be studying the same thing, nor would you be learning it the same way. You'd definitely discover things differently and different things as well.
The universe does not appear dynamic, it appears very static. But it changes and if you were studying the universe billions of billions years ago, you'd be finding out things differently.
We're now thinking that light might not be the fastest thing in the universe and I believe with time, even if light were the fastest, eventually something would come along that is faster than it.

Even if you were correct though, which you are not, Science is the study of the universe, something that appears static to us, because of how slow things change. Religion always has the same message, but it is different in how it is delivered and to whom.. mainly because Humanity evolves through time (I thought you knew this).. I don't know why you're expecting a higher being of being a robot that repeats it self with the same message over and over. Nor will I bother asking you why you're not taking all variables into account (humanity's habit to change the message to fit their version of what is right and wrong) when you're taking on religion.

I'm going to have to ask you to use more science in your logic, sir.

[The7even]

religion ? :fuckthatshit::fuckthatshit:

science? :megusta::fulloffuck::sweetjesus::thumbs::fuckyea: :accepted:

That's what I'm talking about..

/facepalm

[The7even]

Here's a video of him at debates

LiveLeak.com - Christopher Hitchens (RIP) - Best of the Hitchslap (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=616_1324015039)

Hahaha.. no one really notices the flaw in this logic?
In the first 30 seconds, he contradicts him self and fails.

Religion is the source of hate.
We must hate all religion.
He is atheist.. therefore his first point, which claims the source of hate as religion is immediately false.

[SkinnyPupp]

There is absolutely no point in arguing about religion with someone who is religious. It's not like two scientists who have differing opinions on something that can be proven or disproven with time. It is always one person who can accept something that can be proven or disproven, versus someone who has been brainwashed into thinking the earth is only a few thousand years old, and that dinosaurs were placed in the ground by the devil to trick us into believing in science. So sorry, nothing more to add here.

Again I have nothing against religious people, I don't want it to seem that way. I accept that people come from all walks of life, and humans are extremely easy to brainwash and manipulate, especially over hundreds of years. So it's just something I have to accept. I just hope our ancestors can move past it eventually. We'll have to, really.

[MindBomber]

Typed up a long response, then my laptop battery died, fuck, I wish forums auto-saved messages like gmail..

An intelligent debate is a great way to honour Hitchens memory, keep it up guys.

[The7even]

There is absolutely no point in arguing about religion with someone who is religious. It's not like two scientists who have differing opinions on something that can be proven or disproven with time. It is always one person who can accept something that can be proven or disproven, versus someone who has been brainwashed into thinking the earth is only a few thousand years old, and that dinosaurs were placed in the ground by the devil to trick us into believing in science. So sorry, nothing more to add here.


But I'm the guy who believes the earth is billions of years old, and believes in Dinosaurs.

Would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't dismiss me as one of the idiots you're used to arguing with, good sir.

EDIT: I'm also not arguing about whether atheism or religion is right. With science, you demand proof, with religion, you go on faith. I'm arguing that who you're pitting the blame on (or what you're pitting the blame on, in this case) is incorrect.

Thanks a bunch.

[JesseBlue]

meh...

[The7even]

Typed up a long response, then my laptop battery died, fuck, I wish forums auto-saved messages like gmail..

An intelligent debate is a great way to honour Hitchens memory, keep it up guys.

Type it out, would like to hear what you have to add.

[MindBomber]

There is absolutely no point in arguing about religion with someone who is religious. It's not like two scientists who have differing opinions on something that can be proven or disproven with time. It is always one person who can accept something that can be proven or disproven, versus someone who has been brainwashed into thinking the earth is only a few thousand years old, and that dinosaurs were placed in the ground by the devil to trick us into believing in science. So sorry, nothing more to add here.

Again I have nothing against religious people, I don't want it to seem that way. I accept that people come from all walks of life, and humans are extremely easy to brainwash and manipulate, especially over hundreds of years. So it's just something I have to accept. I just hope our ancestors can move past it eventually. We'll have to, really.

98% percent of the time, it's absolutely pointless to have an intelligent discussion on religion with a religious person, because they refuse to accept any of your view points or find fault in their own. Maybe that's why they're religious?

The odd time however, you find a religious person who is realistic, who doesn't buy into the conventional dogmatic bull shit that's made religion what it is today. I enjoy, and do not take for granted those opportunities..

[LiquidTurbo]

I used to be all interested in having these discussions with people. Then I realized it's a complete waste of time.

[SkinnyPupp]

But I'm the guy who believes the earth is billions of years old, and believes in Dinosaurs.

Would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't dismiss me as one of the idiots you're used to arguing with, good sir.

EDIT: I'm also not arguing about whether atheism or religion is right. With science, you demand proof, with religion, you go on faith. I'm arguing that who you're pitting the blame on (or what you're pitting the blame on, in this case) is incorrect.

Thanks a bunch.
If you weren't being so pedantic, I might take more time to consider your posts...

But I'll just say, if you don't think religion causes people who otherwise wouldn't hate to do so, then I was correct in dismissing you.

[Matsuda]

I used to be all interested in having these discussions with people. Then I realized it's a complete waste of time.


like..mac vs pc =D

[The7even]

If you weren't being so pedantic, I might take more time to consider your posts...

But I'll just say, if you don't think religion causes people who otherwise wouldn't hate to do so, then I was correct in dismissing you.
You're right, I apologize for that..
My reply to your reply might have been a bit smart-ass-ish but my first post was not.

No, religion doesn't cause it.
You're using the same argument that religious zealots use against atheists.
i.e. "if you're atheist, you're evil, obviously, since you believe in nothing and you don't care about anyone or anything"

It's a stereotype of sorts.. that really has no room in an intelligent debate.
The only difference in when you say it is that it originates from the other side.

Furthermore, if you're going to use examples of Saddam Hussein and the Crusades or any random person doing evil and using religion as their main drive and source of motivation, I can by that logic use the goodness that comes from religion to defend my stance, completely nulling out your point, thus making your argument invalid.
So you're going to have to dig deeper if you're trying to make sense, or you could admit that you were wrong.

[MindBomber]

Religion is not by nature evil, it's a beautiful thing, it gives cultures an incredible degree of depth and can inspire people to live a life that pays homage to their surroundings. Examine religions that existed in smaller cultures, native ones for example, they have not been twisted by the ideological dogma inspired by fear seen in large religions like Christianity and Islam. They have a sense of purity in my eyes, I've never been taught to hate homosexuals or suppress women by my native elders, only to respect nature and all that which surrounds us. Those beliefs do not need to be extinguished, if anything our disposable society raping every inch of the earth for short term gratification would benefit from a reminder to respect nature, but I digress.

It is the twisted, dogmatic religions, whose original teachings are only barely detectable and hidden by remnants of centuries old instinctual fears that have been infused into them through ordinary humans during the countless translations and retellings that need to die or dramatically reform. Therein lies my issue with religion, and I believe many atheists would share that view. Americans weren't fanatically anti-Muslim/Islam prior to 9/11; Florida pastors weren't threatening to host Koran fuelled bonfires, TLC had no interest in a reality show, most Americans probably couldn't have told you what a mosque was. Then 9/11 happened, a small and unfortunate group of misguided lemmings had their faith exploited and Americans learned one thing about Islam - a small group of Muslims follow grossly misinterpreted teachings. Those people are an extreme example of the misinterpretation that runs so rampant in religion and is so unbelievably damaging, instead of beneficial to society as a whole. Muslim extremism is also no different than the ridiculous misinterpretations and human additions that have been made to the Christian bible, because really.. being gay and eating shell fish are mortal sins?

[dee242]

trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...

[woob]

trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...

It's because there is no compelling evidence for a god. It's that simple.

[Ronin]

WTF...there's nothing overrated about champagne, lobster, anal sex or picnics.

Especially not picnics. They're fucking delightful.

Religion, atheism, who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in. I could care less. What I hate are fanatics and there are plenty on either side.

[Manic!]

Religion is not by nature evil, it's a beautiful thing, it gives cultures an incredible degree of depth and can inspire people to live a life that pays homage to their surroundings. Examine religions that existed in smaller cultures, native ones for example, they have not been twisted by the ideological dogma inspired by fear seen in large religions like Christianity and Islam. They have a sense of purity in my eyes.

Natives in South America sacrificed virgins to please the gods.

trying to figure out why some one would not believe in god...


Because some people gave up believing in imaginary things years ago.

[The7even]

WTF...there's nothing overrated about champagne, lobster, anal sex or picnics.

Especially not picnics. They're fucking delightful.

Religion, atheism, who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in. I could care less. What I hate are fanatics and there are plenty on either side.

This.

[The7even]

trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...

Because some people don't like the idea of depending on just faith, they prefer proof? You don't need to figure anything out..

[Ronin]

This.

Glad someone else also think picnics are delightful.

[SkinnyPupp]

You're using the same argument that religious zealots use against atheists.
i.e. "if you're atheist, you're evil, obviously, since you believe in nothing and you don't care about anyone or anything"

Nice straw-man argument attempt there.

:nicethread:

[woob]

Hahaha.. no one really notices the flaw in this logic?
In the first 30 seconds, he contradicts him self and fails.
Religion is the source of hate.
We must hate all religion.
He is atheist.. therefore his first point, which claims the source of hate as religion is immediately false.

Hitchens believes that religions is the MAIN source of hatred, but not the ONLY source of hatred. For him to state that it is the main source of hatred while saying that it should be treated with hate is NOT fallacious.

And for you to dismiss his argument simply because he is atheist is a fallacy. Ad hominem argument.

[The7even]

Nice straw-man argument attempt there.

:nicethread:

Oh, you're not?

So then I was wrong, and you actually see that religion it self isn't twisted, rather it's the people who do the twisting and ultimately people them selves are at fault?

[The7even]

Glad someone else also think picnics are delightful.

:lol I mean't the last part of your quote.



Hitchens believes that religions is the MAIN source of hatred, but not the ONLY source of hatred. For him to state that it is the main source of hatred while saying that it should be treated with hate is NOT fallacious.

And for you to dismiss his argument simply because he is atheist is a fallacy. Ad hominem argument.


Wait, when did I dismiss him because of his atheism?
I can dismiss him for thinking that he's an idiot. But he isn't an idiot for being atheist, he's an idiot for where he places the blame of all of Humanity's problems.

EDIT: I just read my post and that last sentence does look like I'm dismissing him because of it. I'm actually not.
I'm only pointing out that he is atheist (in his mind a stance that isn't a source of hatred like religion is) but encourages to hate, therefore contradicting his statement that religion is the main source.

You're also right, he says it's the main source. Regardless, he's still wrong. And I'm sure he believes atheism would be the perfect solution. Which is also wrong.

Greed and Love of power are the main sources of evil.
The main source of hatred is Humanity it self.

[SkinnyPupp]

Finally you said something definitively failable. Now let's let this thread RIP like Chris Hitchens

[CorneringArtist]

Carl Sagan-Cosmos edited for rednecks - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6axdZAxyt2g
:troll:. It's Family Guy, but these came to mind with the way the thread is sort of going. Also, the comments in both videos have the same fanatics of both sides that were mentioned.

[LiquidTurbo]

trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...

trying hard to figure out why you would not believe in Unicorns...

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the ‘Universe’ —a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts, and feelings, as something separated from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description.”

I don't disagree.

[The7even]

Finally you said something definitively failable. Now let's let this thread RIP like Chris Hitchens


I'll assume my self the victor, seeing as how you have nothing to add but the fail button to an argument that is anything but hypocritical and filled with religious bigotry.

[flagella]

this thread is sad rofl.

[woob]

Religion, atheism, who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in. I could care less. What I hate are fanatics and there are plenty on either side.

Religion, atheism, who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in. I could care less. What I hate are fanatics and there are plenty on either side.

I understand you are trying to be the voice of reason here, but in the interest of bettering society, we have to be critical of each others actions and motives. I agree that religion can motivate people to do good things, but religion is the basis for many policy-makers' decisions around the world (see: marriage inequality) and people like Chuck Norris are endorsing teaching the Bible as history in the US, when at most it should be treated as literature. This is double plus uncool as it corrupts young kids. It may not indoctrinate them, but I'm sure those that have less than stellar critical thinking skills will fall into the creationism hole. This is pure mis-education.

I have many religious friends and the religious/atheist dichotomy does not interfere with our daily interactions, but when it comes to political decisions that can affect my way of living, the importance of the religious debate escalates far past "live and let live."

-------------------

A nice quote from someone on reddit: "When Christians recognize the deep-seated need for social justice that their religion demands, they can do incredibly great things, beyond all imagining, and uplift humanity out of suffering and deprivation.

When they forget, there is no greater evil that humanity can know."

[zulutango]

Caught the tail end of an inverview on cbc this morning about him. The first guy said he was the best thing since sliced bread & the world would never be the same without him. Second guy hated his guts...said as long as he was destroying conservatives and right wing types, he was wonderful, but when he switched sides and went after sacred left wingers like Chomskey et al, he was the devil himself and he was glad he was gone. Funny to hear the cbc actually permitted both sides of an argument, but they did allow the nay-sayer to rant a lot longer than the supporter....surprise, surprise.

[unit]

if you are an atheist that's a belief system too. to tell others that there is no god is just the same as what you hate so much (religion). i find the hypocrisy to be hilarious.

[SkinnyPupp]

Atheist isn't a "belief" in anything, it's an acknowledgement in lack of 'belief' in fairy tales.

[woob]

Calling atheism is a religion (belief system) is like calling bald is a hair colour. Simply, it isn't.

With atheism, there is no dogma, there is no encouraged moral code, there is no specific doctrine to follow. The only requirement to labeling oneself as an atheist is having a lack of belief in a deity.

[The7even]

Calling atheism is a religion (belief system) is like calling bald is a hair colour. Simply, it isn't.

With atheism, there is no dogma, there is no encouraged moral code, there is no specific doctrine to follow. The only requirement to labeling oneself as an atheist is having a lack of belief in a deity.

Calling atheism a religion would be like calling bald a hair color.. but unit didn't call it a religion. He called it a belief, which is what it is . You believe that to be true.
Belief and religion are different.

With that said, you have an opinion, which is that X, Y or Z do not exist. That IS a belief, you can't prove that it doesn't exist and therefore it is a belief. Just like I can't prove that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, but I believe that X Y or Z do.

A belief in God requires faith.
A belief in no God requires that that person only believe in what he/she can see touch or feel and that anything outside of that doesn't exist.

Both are still beliefs because neither can be proved or disproved.
What part of that doesn't make sense?

Again, please remember, he didn't call atheism a religion.


The only requirement to labeling oneself as an atheist is having a lack of belief in a deity.

Which in and of it self is a belief :lol

You believe there isn't, I believe there is. Both have a word in common, I'm sure you can find it. (Yes, I sound condescending, but come on, they both are what they are).



Oh and I don't see how this thread is bad in anyway.. a thread about theism, atheism that isn't a flame war.. and somehow it's labeled as stupid or fail? Give me a break, RS.

[quasi]

trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...

:ahwow:

[Ronin]

I understand you are trying to be the voice of reason here, but in the interest of bettering society, we have to be critical of each others actions and motives. I agree that religion can motivate people to do good things, but religion is the basis for many policy-makers' decisions around the world (see: marriage inequality) and people like Chuck Norris are endorsing teaching the Bible as history in the US, when at most it should be treated as literature. This is double plus uncool as it corrupts young kids. It may not indoctrinate them, but I'm sure those that have less than stellar critical thinking skills will fall into the creationism hole. This is pure mis-education.

I have many religious friends and the religious/atheist dichotomy does not interfere with our daily interactions, but when it comes to political decisions that can affect my way of living, the importance of the religious debate escalates far past "live and let live."

-------------------

A nice quote from someone on reddit: "When Christians recognize the deep-seated need for social justice that their religion demands, they can do incredibly great things, beyond all imagining, and uplift humanity out of suffering and deprivation.

When they forget, there is no greater evil that humanity can know."

But that's what I'm talking about. Just about all the bad things about most religion are driven by their need to spread their message to others. If every religion was just about shutting the fuck up and sharing just with those who have the same beliefs, then pretty much every war prior to the 20th century may not have happened.

This goes for atheists too. If atheist spent a little less time trying to convince religious people they're stupid, then this thread would be all about saying some RIPs for a dude rather than a debate about religion.

Most religions tell you to spread the word but I personally don't subscribe to any of that. If someone wants to hear about my religion, I'd be happy to tell them but if someone doesn't want to hear about it or doesn't ask, then I can't be bothered to talk about it. If I meet someone and they tell me they're Muslim...great. If they tell me they're Jewish...cool. I have zero opinion about it.

Religion is about truth at it's core and I don't feel like anyone has the right to tell anyone else what they should hold as true since that basically defines you as a person.

I treat religion like the army used to treat homosexuality: don't ask, don't tell. I honestly don't care what your beliefs are nor do I have a fuck to give for what you think about mine. Pretty much the only time I'd ever ask is maybe a few dates in with a girl because...well, that matters if it leads to anything.

But otherwise, it never matters. I will fight over a heck of a lot of things but not religion. Maybe it's because I care very little about people that aren't family or friends...or at least connected on Facebook...in general.

[unit]

Atheist isn't a "belief" in anything, it's an acknowledgement in lack of 'belief' in fairy tales.

its a belief in our understanding of science being absolute.

the true belief in nothing is to be agnostic. its to be humble enough to believe that perhaps we know nothing at all.

[LiquidTurbo]

Calling atheism is a religion (belief system) is like calling bald is a hair colour. Simply, it isn't.

With atheism, there is no dogma, there is no encouraged moral code, there is no specific doctrine to follow. The only requirement to labeling oneself as an atheist is having a lack of belief in a deity.

+1.

[LiquidTurbo]

Calling atheism a religion would be like calling bald a hair color.. but unit didn't call it a religion. He called it a belief, which is what it is . You believe that to be true.
Belief and religion are different.

With that said, you have an opinion, which is that X, Y or Z do not exist. That IS a belief, you can't prove that it doesn't exist and therefore it is a belief. Just like I can't prove that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, but I believe that X Y or Z do.

A belief in God requires faith.
A belief in no God requires that that person only believe in what he/she can see touch or feel and that anything outside of that doesn't exist.

Both are still beliefs because neither can be proved or disproved.
What part of that doesn't make sense?

Again, please remember, he didn't call atheism a religion.




Which in and of it self is a belief :lol

You believe there isn't, I believe there is. Both have a word in common, I'm sure you can find it. (Yes, I sound condescending, but come on, they both are what they are).



Oh and I don't see how this thread is bad in anyway.. a thread about theism, atheism that isn't a flame war.. and somehow it's labeled as stupid or fail? Give me a break, RS.

I think he was referring to atheism as a 'belief system'.

You can pick and choose and argue the semantics all you want. At the end of the day there shouldn't even be a label for atheists. Just like how there are no labels for

Non-astrologers.. (A-astrologers?) or
Non-alchemists?


To call atheism an belief is just.. :speechless:

[Excelsis]

it is a belief to a certain extent, if you set your mind free, if you just live in the now, if you just passively observe, then you'd be free of all beliefs

anyways, religion creates a lot of controversy between people, there are christians and then there are sub-groups within it; catholics, orthodox, lutheran, etc, you name it and why? different small rules..

People are too focused on trying to prove someone that God exists or he doesn't, ending up in all sorts of conflicts

Although the bible teaches ethic lessons with the numerous parables in it which is not a bad thing

Personally, i think God is within myself, a power greater than anything which pushes me to keep going and to have faith in myself

but that's my opinion, so don't get butthurt about it

[unit]

I think he was referring to atheism as a 'belief system'.

You can pick and choose and argue the semantics all you want. At the end of the day there shouldn't even be a label for atheists. Just like how there are no labels for

Non-astrologers.. (A-astrologers?) or
Non-alchemists?


To call atheism an belief is just.. :speechless:

if you are positive that a higher being does not exist then that belief is based on science. that is still a belief even if you consider it to be a fact.

[SkinnyPupp]

if you are positive that a higher being does not exist then that belief is based on science. that is still a belief even if you consider it to be a fact.

Nobody is positive that a higher being doesn't exist. Just that it is literally impossible to prove. Therefore, a story made up by people. And that's not what I want to devote my life to.

See this is why you simply can't argue about it. Because only one side is willing to say they don't know the definitive answer. The other side thinks they do, because they have given up their mind to it.
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[unit]

ok i may have the definition of atheism wrong but basically if you can accept the fact that there MIGHT be some form of a god and there might not be, then we are in agreement.
my perceptions of atheists are formed by seeing people thump their opinions of their rejection of the possibility of a god onto others. maybe i read too much /r/atheism lol

[Excelsis]

for the atheists in here, I'm curious what you think of ghosts?
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[Lomac]

You know what's also amazing? Many religious people are also atheists themselves. Why? Because even though they may believe their own god exists, they often refuse to acknowledge that another religion's god exists as well.

Just another things to consider.

[Lomac]

for the atheists in here, I'm curious what you think of ghosts?
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I'm not what most people would consider to be an atheist. I believe that there's something out there that we can't explain, but I never really believed in ghosts. I used to think that they were basically figments of people's imaginations. However, when I was a kid, my dad swore up and down he saw a ghost-like apparition of our old dog standing guard over me and my brother while we slept. The thing that struck me about this is that he is probably the most anti-religious, anti-spiritual, anti-ghost, anti-basically anything else related sort of person you'll ever meet. For someone like him to admit something like that... it makes me think. I still don't believe that there are ghosts, but it's certainly opened me up to the possibility that maybe I'm wrong.

There's a quote I love. Yes, it's from Dogma, but that doesn't change what I feel is the significance behind it:
"I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant."

[Excelsis]

those are bruce lee's words I believe
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[Lomac]

those are bruce lee's words I believe
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That's very possible. The first time I heard 'em were in the Dogma movie, that's all.

[The7even]

Nobody is positive that a higher being doesn't exist. Just that it is literally impossible to prove. Therefore, a story made up by people. And that's not what I want to devote my life to.

See this is why you simply can't argue about it. Because only one side is willing to say they don't know the definitive answer. The other side thinks they do, because they have given up their mind to it.
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I'll dissect this sentence by sentence.

Nobody is positive that a higher being doesn't exist.
Okay, I'm with yo so far..

Just that it is literally impossible to prove
100% Fully agreed on. It's impossible. So then tell me, since when does the impossibility of proving the existence of something [so far] rule it out as non-existent?

Therefore, a story made up by people.
Tell me, does that also then apply to the Higg's Boson?


And that's not what I want to devote my life to.
And that is also perfectly fine.

See this is why you simply can't argue about it.
Okay, why?

Because only one side is willing to say they don't know the definitive answer.

Great point, and can be used to defeat any religious idiot in a debate.
But I'm not that guy. And I've admitted that I don't know the when why where and the how. I just stated multiple times that a religion takes faith.. which means reaching my answer based on faith, not definitive 100% irrefutable fact.

In the end, we both have the same amount of evidence, it's easy to go one way or the other. My way requires a leap of faith, your's says "I'll be on the cautionary side and not jump into something I'm not 100% sure about" Which is like I said multiple times, just fine, and really no better or worse than the path I chose.

The other side thinks they do, because they have given up their mind to it.
Also true, a great many are this way, but not all of us are, and even then, in the end, it still does not change the message.. even if 99% were radical fanatic terrorists, the message is one of peace, proving that it's always the people that are the source, and not faith.

If you replaced faith with something else, you bet it would cause the same amount of damage to everything in a similar manner.

The problem actually is not faith, but culture.

Honor killings in turkey, for example have nothing to do with religion..
North Korea is a prime example of this too..
Too many to name, but if you'd like, I'll find them for you..
Religion is just a scapegoat that evil men use to hide behind, and people like Hitchen's are too blinded by hate to see this.






I think he was referring to atheism as a 'belief system'.

You can pick and choose and argue the semantics all you want. At the end of the day there shouldn't even be a label for atheists. Just like how there are no labels for

Non-astrologers.. (A-astrologers?) or
Non-alchemists?


To call atheism an belief is just.. :speechless:

Now you're just using really vague ways to compare the two.

If you want to compare them like that, it would be :

Religion = Alchemist
Atheism = [insert any other profession here]

And I don't know how you're speechless. You believe it doesn't exist. Whether you like it or not,

If it's not a belief, then it must be a FACT. But you can't prove it, therefore it isn't fact, it's just another belief, it's just that it's the polar opposite of the beliefs that a religion preaches.

It's still a belief nonetheless. Just because it's the opposite of religion doesn't cancel it out as a belief. Unless you already have proof and can prove to me that it's a fact.


And yes, you SHOULD have a label, why are you afraid of labels?
Honestly it seems that you're trying to pass it off as a fact of some sort, when I believe that it's not. (BUT, that's only my belief, yours is that it is, which is fine, but still a belief), sigh..

[SkinnyPupp]

:facepalm:

just :facepalm:

[Nightwalker]

Dear theists, suck Christopher Hitchens dick.

Good night.

[The7even]

its a belief in our understanding of science being absolute.

the true belief in nothing is to be agnostic. its to be humble enough to believe that perhaps we know nothing at all.

Based on what SkinnyPup said, I think he is agnostic. And agnostic is the true belief of Nothing, neither. Doesn't know, doesn't claim to know which way the pendulum swings.

EDIT: I hope this doesn't offend you Skinny, not trying to label you as something you're not. Correct me if I'm wrong about this assumption.

[Nightwalker]

for the atheists in here, I'm curious what you think of ghosts?
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WTF? Why would there need to be a God for ghosts to exist? (not that I'm 100% sure they exist anymore, when I was younger I was.)

[The7even]

Dear theists, suck Christopher Hitchens dick.

Good night.

Oh hey there, let me give you a mirror, show you exactly how smart you sound when you say this sort of stuff.

Enjoy

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b46/elmedin7/atheists.jpg

[The7even]

:facepalm:

just :facepalm:

Nice.

Have no counter argument, Post memes.

Brool story, co.

I expected more from you though. Oh well..

[SkinnyPupp]

Based on what SkinnyPup said, I think he is agnostic. And agnostic is the true belief of Nothing, neither. Doesn't know, doesn't claim to know which way the pendulum swings.

EDIT: I hope this doesn't offend you Skinny, not trying to label you as something you're not. Correct me if I'm wrong about this assumption.
Not a big fan of labels, but I found out about nihilism a while back, and that tends to be where I sway.

I was :facepalm:ing because you spend I don't know how long picking apart one of my replies, only to agree with just about everything I said, except for you ONCE AGAIN tried to build a STRAW MAN to argue with.

And like I said a million times now, there is nothing to argue about. So far you have written a shit ton of words basically trying to say the same thing over and over again. Straw man arguments and repetition are not ways to win an argument, except maybe in this case because I'm not even arguing against you :lol

[1exotic]

trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...

I believe that god is a monkey.

Why don't you believe that god is a monkey? I don't get it.

:drunk:

[The7even]

Not a big fan of labels, but I found out about nihilism a while back, and that tends to be where I sway.

I was :facepalm:ing because you spend I don't know how long picking apart one of my replies, only to agree with just about everything I said, except for you ONCE AGAIN tried to build a STRAW MAN to argue with.

And like I said a million times now, there is nothing to argue about. So far you have written a shit ton of words basically trying to say the same thing over and over again. Straw man arguments and repetition are not ways to win an argument, except maybe in this case because I'm not even arguing against you :lol


We're arguing whether or not you were right when you said that religion should be removed eventually.
If you think that religious people do stupid shit and are fucked up, then yes, we agree. But we disagree on what makes them do the fucked up shit in the first place. The truth is PEOPLE do fucked up and stupid shit, because they're people..

The reason I disagreed with your original statement, which implies that we would be better off without it in order to advance, is because it implies that religion is the problem. It's not.

That's all.


And I'll have you know I'm at work, it's 5:11 AM and I have 3 hours to burn before I go home, same with yesterday, so can you blame me for having the time to pick it all apart :lol

[SkinnyPupp]

There are a few things you seem unable (or more likely unwilling) to grasp

1) Nobody is saying that religion is the root of all evil.

2) HOWEVER, it DOES lead to otherwise non evil people doing evil things. It makes people who otherwise wouldn't hate or be intolerant of others, to become hateful and intolerant. Again that doesn't mean EVERY religious person is hateful and intolerant. But there are PLENTY who are, only because they have been taught to be.

3) "Humanity" as a whole is not evil. Maybe the church wants you to think that, so you have to give yourself up to them, but it's simply not the case. Yes there are evil atheists, and there are evil religious folk. But that's it.

I don't think an atheist ever read a physics book and went "holy shit, if I blow up a bus full of people, I'll go to heaven and be able to fuck virgins for an eternity". And I don't think someone read a biology book and went "males mate with females, and anyone who does otherwise is a disgusting excuse for a human, and is breaking the "laws" of nature, so I hate them and want to destroy them"

And so on, et cetera.

The key points being your straw man argument about Turkey and North Korea that made me go :seriously: then :facepalm:. Yes humans have done some shitty things that weren't in the name of religion. For fucks sake, look at China RIGHT NOW. But again, just like humans can be greedy and evil over money or borders or just to stay in power, there are way WAY to many on EVERY scale that do so just because a book told them to. Or a twisted interpretation of a book. Or whatever.

[LiquidTurbo]

for the atheists in here, I'm curious what you think of ghosts?
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The same as you think of the tooth fairy and leprechauns.

[Excelsis]

for those of you arguing you'll never reach a conclusion

and I'm asking about ghosts because too many times I've heard stories of people who don't believe in ghosts experience it

I'm curious as to why they stay on this earth after death or if they're even born on this earth as ghosts? don't think so but iunno, the human spirit is a complex thing to learn

but this is as far as afterlife thought goes for me, I worry about the present, here and now
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[Soundy]

You know what else is funny. Christianity teaches that all races ARE the same and that we're all brothers.
But you know who waged wars and pillaged Africa a couple of hundred years ago (still goes on today but on a much smaller scale), so called Christians.
You know who also slaughtered innocents and killed over pieces of dirt and rock? Muslims did, atheists did, everyone did.
Even when their own faith said NOT to do that.

Yes, Muslims converted others by force, Christians did it too..
Islam states that there is no compulsion in religion.
Yet almost all of these fuckers still try to shove it down your fucking throat.

...

No, actually, all facts point out that Man is the problem. His pride, his stupidity, his greed (welcome to today's economy), his belief that he is the best and that he deserves everything and that he is right and everyone else is wrong and the he knows whats best (converting others by force) and etc..
And yet religion is the problem?

Actually, it is... but there's only one religion that's really at issue, and that's the religion of power. All the examples cited above are actions done by someone seeking power, and using their stated faith/religion/god as an excuse, as a justification of why they're "right".

It's not unlike an oft-misquoted Bible phrase: the Bible doesn't say money is not the root of all evil... THE LOVE of money is. And in this world, money = power.

Edit: a couple other thoughts...

Mike Warnke, a Christian commedian, once noted that everyone has their own god, even atheists. It may not be an all-powerful being - for some people it's money, for some it's drugs or alcohol... "whatever that thing is that you turn to in times of need, that thing is your god." There's some wisdom in that.

And for those of you who like sci-fi: Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski is a very firm, self-proclaimed atheist... yet various B5 episodes (and indeed, many of the underlying themes of the show) have some of the most balanced, thoughtful, insightful, and moving examinations of a wide variety of different beliefs and religions, both known human ones, and his fictional alien ones. Having been raised Christian myself, I really appreciate his ability to look at all sides of a religion and address them without being judgmental either way. Few religious people OR atheists that I've come across have this ability.

[LiquidTurbo]

for those of you arguing you'll never reach a conclusion

and I'm asking about ghosts because too many times I've heard stories of people who don't believe in ghosts experience it

I'm curious as to why they stay on this earth after death or if they're even born on this earth as ghosts? don't think so but iunno, the human spirit is a complex thing to learn

but this is as far as afterlife thought goes for me, I worry about the present, here and now
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They probably experienced ghosts like little kids experience Santa Claus.

[LiquidTurbo]

Actually, it is... but there's only one religion that's really at issue, and that's the religion of power. All the examples cited above are actions done by someone seeking power, and using their stated faith/religion/god as an excuse, as a justification of why they're "right".

It's not unlike an oft-misquoted Bible phrase: the Bible doesn't say money is not the root of all evil... THE LOVE of money is. And in this world, money = power.

Edit: a couple other thoughts...

Mike Warnke, a Christian commedian, once noted that everyone has their own god, even atheists. It may not be an all-powerful being - for some people it's money, for some it's drugs or alcohol... "whatever that thing is that you turn to in times of need, that thing is your god." There's some wisdom in that.

And for those of you who like sci-fi: Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski is a very firm, self-proclaimed atheist... yet various B5 episodes (and indeed, many of the underlying themes of the show) have some of the most balanced, thoughtful, insightful, and moving examinations of a wide variety of different beliefs and religions, both known human ones, and his fictional alien ones. Having been raised Christian myself, I really appreciate his ability to look at all sides of a religion and address them without being judgmental either way. Few religious people OR atheists that I've come across have this ability.

Actually I disagree. Atheist look at all deities and religions and equally.

You can't be a religious person and have a genuine ability to look at all sides of the OTHERS religions without being judgmental whatsoever.

[Soundy]

Actually I disagree. Atheist look at all deities and religions and equally.

See, this is the same trap people fall into trying to pigeonhole what individuals believe based on what religion they claim to follow: NOT all atheists "look at all deities and religions equally", the same way not all religious people view other religions (or non-religions) the same way.

In fact, I know plenty of people who proclaim to be atheists who love to take every opportunity to point out to people of all religious stripes, examples of how "their god" is hateful, vengeful, or just plain nasty... now wait a minute, if you don't believe that god EXISTS, than how can you believe that he's all this nasty shit???

[LiquidTurbo]

^They point it out on context of the respective religion to point out how strange their views are.

You can point out how fucked up that blowing yourself up and believing that you'll get the 26 virgins is, but not believe any lick of it.

It's pointing out the absurdity of the vantage point.

[Soundy]

^They point it out on context of the respective religion to point out how strange their views are.

You can point out how fucked up that blowing yourself up and believing that you'll get the 26 virgins is, but not believe any lick of it.

It's pointing out the absurdity of the vantage point.

No, you're missing the point: NOT ALL atheists operate this way.

Your statement "Atheist look at all deities and religions and equally" is over-generalized and inaccurate.

No two people think the same way, thus no two believe (or disbelieve) the same way. People who consider themselves atheists are just as prone to irrationality as anyone of any religious bent.

Being (or at least calling oneself) an atheist does not automatically impart a balanced, rational view of ANYTHING.

[MindBomber]

Actually I disagree. Atheist look at all deities and religions and equally.

You can't be a religious person and have a genuine ability to look at all sides of the OTHERS religions without being judgmental whatsoever.

I disagree, but I also agree.

From a purely clinical and uncaring perspective, I look at all deities equally, they're just imaginary characters in books with magical powers, like Harry Potter.

Religions however, I view very individually based on the teachings, Buddhism and Christianity are both religions, but I couldn't possibly have more opposing opinions of them.

[LiquidTurbo]

Being (or at least calling oneself) an atheist does not automatically impart a balanced, rational view of ANYTHING.

:seriously:


Not picking on Christianity, (just that it's convenient in our Western world)


http://i.imgur.com/um5bC.jpg


Very rational. :ahwow:

[zulutango]

Yep...and no chance of a Christian suicide bomber or a fatwah (sp?) from the Pope if you draw a bad cartoon.

[Gridlock]

Yep...and no chance of a Chrfistian suicide bomber or a fatwah (sp?) from the Pope if you draw a bad cartoon.

So come out and say it. What's your solution?

[MindBomber]

Yep...and no chance of a Chrfistian suicide bomber or a fatwah (sp?) from the Pope if you draw a bad cartoon.

That's right, Christian terrorists are superior to their Islamic counterparts, when they bomb abortion clinics they detonate the devices remotely.

[Excelsis]

:suspicious: a terrorist is a terrorist, he has no right to be called a Christian, Islamic, etc
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[Ronin]

Every religion has it's crazies and fanatics. Christians can be just as much assholes as Muslims or whatever.

It's because everyone not only thinks they're right but that others are wrong and they somehow don't have a right to be wrong. If someone else is going to hell or not getting their 700 virgins at some point, then that's their problem...it in no way affects your fate here on earth or in whatever afterlife you believe in.

If people would just stop it with the evangelism, the world would get along better. People would no longer feel the urge or responsibility to "save" or "correct" others.

[woob]

the true belief in nothing is to be agnostic. its to be humble enough to believe that perhaps we know nothing at all.

Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. I am an agnostic atheist. Now what?

a terrorist is a terrorist, he has no right to be called a Christian, Islamic, etc

And you are not a true Scotsman, amirite?

If people would just stop it with the evangelism, the world would get along better. People would no longer feel the urge or responsibility to "save" or "correct" others.

I agree. But religious evangelism is far more common than atheistic evangelism. And for the religious evangelism to stop, entire religions have to rework their practices since many religions encourage the dissemination of their faith among the unconverted and posits the spreading of faith as a duty of its constituents.

Mark 16:15-16 (KJV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

if you don't believe that god EXISTS, than how can you believe that he's all this nasty shit???

I can believe they are all that "nasty shit" even if I don't believe they exist just like I can believe that Joffrey from Game of Thrones is a giant piece of shit even though I don't believe he is anything outside of a character is someone's fantasy series.

-----------

Sidenote:

I think it's time to stop pretending that it's only fanatics and extremists that commit violence in the name of religion. The Crusades were performed by mainstream Christians of the time. And the big problem with religious war is that faith-based conflict cannot be solved through reasonable debate since faith is not based on reason at all! Without reason, we are left with mindless conflict.

[Excelsis]

You know from my passive observing, i've noticed that atheists tend to be more radical and the most peaceful are the buddhists and taoists

Sorry if i sound like this but my numerous observations are what they are

[woob]

pssst atheist Buddhists exist.

From what little I've read of Buddhism, I think that of the major religions, it lines up the best with my current beliefs.


I would also like to hear about your observed radical atheists.

[Excelsis]

if you're a buddhist you're not an atheist, you believe in something

:fulloffuck:

[woob]

Negatory, hombre.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity (a.k.a. a "god"), not a lack of belief in anything. Buddhism traditionally has no deities as Buddha himself asked not to be deified. As such, atheist Buddhism exists.

[Excelsis]

:suspicious:

study religion a bit more

[woob]

God in Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism)

"The non adhrerence[1] to the notion of a omnipotent creator deity or a prime mover is seen by many as a key distinction between Buddhism and other religions."

[Excelsis]

sigh..

[Ronin]

Preaching is one thing but I feel like most religions are about forcing it upon others and making SURE they convert because it's the only way. I think preaching is more about being a source of information rather than making sure people believe it.

You can't force a horse to drink, you can only lead it to water. If that horse dies of dehydration, well, that isn't your responsibility because you held up your end of the bargain.

That and I feel evangelism has an inherent air of arrogance to it, like "I'm teaching you the correct way because I'm doing it so well that I can make others good at it as well." Any religious person that tells you they have never had doubts is a liar. Anyone that tells you they have followed their religion to the letter and never strayed is also probably a liar. I don't feel like myself or anyone else is a good enough example of religious ideals to take it upon themselves to convert others. That simply isn't their choice to make.

People just need to mind their own freakin' business about religion.

[Excelsis]

don't have doubts?

used to, not anymore

everything i do is for a reason

do i have any doubts now? no

[Ronin]

I think the second you stop questioning your religion, you become a fanatic that follows blindly and that's dangerous. Religion requires faith but blind faith just seems silly to me.

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

i love his speech, RIP.

[rsx]

Has anyone tried reading "Case for Faith"? What a terrible book, absolute garbage.

[LiquidTurbo]

Canada "honor killings" on trial | GlobalPost (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/canada/111220/canada-honor-killings-trial)