[El Bastardo]

The alleged “honor killing” of three teenaged daughters by their Afghan-born parents has shocked a country that prizes multiculturalism and sparked debate about the integration of immigrants.

In the widely-followed trial, polygamist Mohammad Shafia is accused of murdering his three daughters and his first wife. Also accused of four counts of premeditated murder is Shafia’s 20-year-old son, Hamed, and Shafia’s second wife, Tooba Mohammad Yahya, the mother of the three dead girls.

...

Prosecutors have referred to the deaths as so-called “honor killings” — the murder of women for perceived violations of sexual or behavioral norms imposed by tradition. The United Nations has estimated that 5,000 occur worldwide every year.

...

Shafia, a 59-year-old businessman, came to Canada with his second wife and their seven children in 2007. His first wife, Rona Amir Mohammad, arrived months later, officially introduced to Canadian immigration officials as the children’s aunt. Polygamy is illegal in Canada.

In the months before their deaths, the three sisters told social workers, school officials and police they were verbally and physically abused at home. Zainab spoke of enduring long periods of forced isolation in her bedroom. She fled to a shelter for abused women two months before she died. Sahar attended school with scratched and bruised arms, and attempted suicide by swallowing pills.

Child-welfare workers and police visited the home but didn’t remove the children, the court heard, apparently because the sisters refused to repeat their complaints in front of their parents.

...

The accused have pleaded not guilty.

...

Whatever the final verdict, the evidence so far has been chilling. Shortly after the deaths, police placed a listening device in Shafia’s car.

“They committed treason from beginning to end,” Shafia told the other two accused during one conversation in the car. “They betrayed humankind, they betrayed Islam, they betrayed our religion and creed, they betrayed our tradition, they betrayed everything.”

In another wiretapped conversation, Shafia, speaking to his second wife, is in a rage: “Even if they come back to life a hundred times, if I have a cleaver in my hand, I will cut (them) in pieces. Not once but a hundred times, as they acted that cruel towards you and me. For the love of God, what had we done to them? What excess had we committed … that they undressed themselves in front of boys?”

At one point, he is heard referring to his eldest daughter, Zainab: “Is that what a daughter should be? Would a daughter be such a whore?”

Then this outburst: “May the devil shit on their graves.”

...

The Shafia trial has raised questions about Canada’s 40-year-old policy of multiculturalism. Some argue integration in Canadian values is taking a back seat to tolerance of cultural differences. They point to the social workers who visited Shafia’s home and accuse them of letting multicultural sensitivities blind them to abuse.

...

The Shafia trial resumes Jan. 9.


Canada "honor killings" on trial | GlobalPost (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/canada/111220/canada-honor-killings-trial)


tl;dr: An Afghani immigrant is accused of murdering his three daughters and his first wife in an "honour killing" because he thought his daughters were acting too western, flirting with boys and wearing revealing clothing.



Lets keep this discussion mature and ignorance-free.

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

wow.. can't believe shit like this happens here in our home land

[G-spec]

before anybody jumps to the conclusion that this has anything to do with Islam.... nope... these are tribal customs from tribal regions in Afghanistan, there is no honor killings in Islam...

the 3 worst sins in Islam are as follows

1) non belief in God (obvious)
2) suicide (your body is sacred and basically on rent from God whilst in this world, must not be damaged)
3) murder (killing one person is as if you've killed all of humanity, saving one person is as if you've saved all of humanity)

[Anjew]

just another psychopath that happens to be from Afghanistan

[V4NC1TY]

wow, this is sick as shit
judge was too fuckin' lenient

[SkinnyPupp]

before anybody jumps to the conclusion that this has anything to do with Islam.... nope... these are tribal customs from tribal regions in Afghanistan, there is no honor killings in Islam...

the 3 worst sins in Islam are as follows

1) non belief in God (obvious)
2) suicide (your body is sacred and basically on rent from God whilst in this world, must not be damaged)
3) murder (killing one person is as if you've killed all of humanity, saving one person is as if you've saved all of humanity)
Ah, so it must be pure coincidence that only islamic countries do honor killing then.

Of course if you go 'by the letter of the book' it can be interpreted that honor killing = murder. But somehow, people are not interpreting it that way for some reason. For some reason, even though the Qur'an "celebrates the inherent dignity bestowed by God upon all human beings regardless of race, ethnicity, gender or religion", women have less rights than animals in these countries, and people from other ethnicities become slaves, and of course you have people going to jail for being homosexual.

[Manic!]

Ah, so it must be pure coincidence that only islamic countries do honor killing then.



So your telling me a father has never killed any of his children in Canada?

It has to do with culture not religion. the two are often confused by people outside and inside the faith. In the Sikh religion cast does not matter but if you every see marriage ads in Indian papers you will see ads looking for a Sikh of a certain cast.

[tegz]

As much as I agree with voluntary euthanasia, this is just wrong.

[SkinnyPupp]

So your telling me a father has never killed any of his children in Canada?

It has to do with culture not religion. the two are often confused by people outside and inside the faith. In the Sikh religion cast does not matter but if you every see marriage ads in Indian papers you will see ads looking for a Sikh of a certain cast.
This is the exact same argument Chris Hitchens makes. No, not all religious people are evil. And yes, non religious people do some evil shit. But in many cases, it's religion that causes otherwise totally normal people to do evil shit. Like honor killing your daughters.

[achiam]

That man should be fucking butchered on live TV so all the fucking religious fucknuts will think twice before doing something stupid. An eye for an eye!!!!

[Manic!]

This is the exact same argument Chris Hitchens makes. No, not all religious people are evil. And yes, non religious people do some evil shit. But in many cases, it's religion that causes otherwise totally normal people to do evil shit. Like honor killing your daughters.

The religion is telling them not to do and they still do it. Even if they were not religious they could still do this because of culture.

[SkinnyPupp]

OK

[Great68]

This is the exact same argument Chris Hitchens makes. No, not all religious people are evil. And yes, non religious people do some evil shit. But in many cases, it's religion that causes otherwise totally normal people to do evil shit. Like honor killing your daughters.

I'd argue that this fuck who killed his daughters wasn't a normal person...

[Excelsis]

how can you do this to your own creations...

religion or no religion, what a father... :facepalm:
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[4doorVIP]

they really need to drop the word honour from this

[El Bastardo]

Lets remember that this guy hasn't been convicted yet. Sure, he seems guilty as fuck but the case is still in trial.

Laws of Canada aside, could his lawyers successfully argue that any death that occurred happened as a result of his cultural beliefs clashing with the laws of this country and use that to garner a non-guilty verdict?

Its happened before: Muslim girl gang, who kicked Rhea Page in the head yelling 'kill the white slag,' FREED | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070562/Muslim-girl-gang-kicked-Rhea-Page-head-yelling-kill-white-slag-FREED.html)

[zulutango]

before anybody jumps to the conclusion that this has anything to do with Islam.... nope... these are tribal customs from tribal regions in Afghanistan, there is no honor killings in Islam...

the 3 worst sins in Islam are as follows

1) non belief in God (obvious)
2) suicide (your body is sacred and basically on rent from God whilst in this world, must not be damaged)
3) murder (killing one person is as if you've killed all of humanity, saving one person is as if you've saved all of humanity)

Are all these islamic honour killers from Afghanistan?


Honor Killing: Islam's Gruesome Gallery - Atlas Shrugs (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/03/honor-killing-islams-gruesome-gallery.html)

[MindBomber]

The greatest shame imaginable is when good and intelligent people allow themselves to pass judgement on an entire segment of society based on the actions of a few, unfortunate and misguided individuals. Recognize that through the Qur'an, Islam, does not preach terrorism or honour killings and that these are simply individuals who have allowed themselves to be manipulated and blinded to the true teachings of an honourable religion. These people do not represent Islam, they represent a sickeningly inaccurate misinterpretation of it.

[SFUguy]

The greatest shame imaginable is when good and intelligent people allow themselves to pass judgement on an entire segment of society based on the actions of a few, unfortunate and misguided individuals. Recognize that through the Qur'an, Islam, does not preach terrorism or honour killings and that these are simply individuals who have allowed themselves to be manipulated and blinded to the true teachings of an honourable religion. These people do not represent Islam, they represent a sickeningly inaccurate misinterpretation of it.

have you even lived in a muslim country before?

[MindBomber]

have you even lived in a muslim country before?

How is that relevant?

[Araaadi]

have you even lived in a muslim country before?

Where he has traveled has nothing to do with the topic.

Judging a whole religion over a few things you hear is plain ignorant.

Russell Peters - Arabs! - YouTube

[Jsunu]

The Islam in itself does not fucking promote honour killings for fucks sake. It is the local culture/custom/societal norms that dictate what is deemed the ultimate sin for those people. It is sad when people view the select few extremists and apply to a large portion of the world's population (%20 of the world's pop is muslim). It is almost like using how morman sects with their multiple wives somehow represents the entire christian faith.

[jpark]

its quite sorrowful to see canada's multiculturalism policy being abused in such ways, its one of the canada's unique characteristics yet incidents like this detonate the system to the wrong way

[JD¹³]

The government should do the honourable thing in the name of all Canadians both native born and immigrants, who obey the law and appreciate the freedoms we have in this country, and deport these fucks back to the piece of shit sandlot they came from.

[too_slow]

have you even lived in a muslim country before?

Please, please, PLEASE for the f**king love of god, remove the words "SFU" from your nickname..

Clearly you're a SFU drop out, and by no means represent the school, the students, the alumni, or the human race for that matter..



On a side note, I will make a "judgement" after the case goes to trial.

[tiger_handheld]

before anybody jumps to the conclusion that this has anything to do with Islam.... nope... these are tribal customs from tribal regions in Afghanistan, there is no honor killings in Islam...

the 3 worst sins in Islam are as follows

1) non belief in God (obvious)
2) suicide (your body is sacred and basically on rent from God whilst in this world, must not be damaged)
3) murder (killing one person is as if you've killed all of humanity, saving one person is as if you've saved all of humanity)


Don't really know much about Islam, but if suicide and murder are 2/3 worst sins - whats the deal on "suicide bombers" and "jihad" in the name of their god? Is Jihad a sham?

[InvisibleSoul]

So that explains why he killed the three daughters, but what about the first wife?

[Manic!]

The government should do the honourable thing in the name of all Canadians both native born and immigrants, who obey the law and appreciate the freedoms we have in this country, and deport these fucks back to the piece of shit sandlot they came from.


So don't sent them to jail???


Canada do a major crime don't go to jail but get a free trip back to where you came from.


Does that sound right to you? What if it was an American?

[The7even]

before anybody jumps to the conclusion that this has anything to do with Islam.... nope... these are tribal customs from tribal regions in Afghanistan, there is no honor killings in Islam...

the 3 worst sins in Islam are as follows

1) non belief in God (obvious)
2) suicide (your body is sacred and basically on rent from God whilst in this world, must not be damaged)
3) murder (killing one person is as if you've killed all of humanity, saving one person is as if you've saved all of humanity)

You should elaborate on the non belief in God.. seeing as how those that have never heard of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc, would be rewarded the same way a Muslim would be, so long as they were a good person.

[The7even]

Don't really know much about Islam, but if suicide and murder are 2/3 worst sins - whats the deal on "suicide bombers" and "jihad" in the name of their god? Is Jihad a sham?

That's his point ...

think about it..

And define sham.

[JD¹³]

So don't sent them to jail???


Canada do a major crime don't go to jail but get a free trip back to where you came from.
IMO jail in Canada is better than living in worn torn Afghanistan. Here they'd still have clean running water, heat and A/C, quality food, safety, and human rights. All those things they took advantage of when fleeing their native country for a better life. A better life for their children that they murdered in cold blood. Why should they continue to have them on the Canadian tax payers dollar? These people deserve capital punishment and nothing less, but since we won't do that in Canada I say send them back to the fucking desert so they can fend for themselves and squat in a mud hut or cave. Freeze their assets, and have their criminal records sent to INTERPOL and all other governments with open immigration policies so they'll be denied if they ever try to emigrate somewhere else.

Canada needs to grow some fucking balls and stop allowing our country to be an international garbage dump for immigrants that aren't welcome elsewhere. They abused the system to get in, and after murdering four people continue abusing it by having a fair trial. The victims are their own family, there's no justice to be had for anyone else so why is Canada fronting the bill for a trial? In the words of the late John McAleese "Bang bang, job done".

[spyker]

Are all these islamic honour killers from Afghanistan?


Honor Killing: Islam's Gruesome Gallery - Atlas Shrugs (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/03/honor-killing-islams-gruesome-gallery.html)

Not just Arabs,but East Indians too.

Do you remember a few years ago about a East Indian man who lived in the B.C interior who killed his daughter in the name of honour?

It was messed up,the reason he killed his daughter was because she was dating a First nations guy and he did not approve of the relationship at all.

A friend of mine was taken into Surrey pretrail during the time of his arrest,he was waiting around in the same room with him,both waiting to get booked,my friend told me,this man showed no remorse whatsoever,he was so stone faced with no emotion,he had cops come in screaming at him for the crime he did and they asked him if he had any idea how serious the crime he is going to be charged with.

Friend told me,the most fucked up thing was,he looked like he was proud of what he had done.

[G-spec]

Ah, so it must be pure coincidence that only islamic countries do honor killing then.

Of course if you go 'by the letter of the book' it can be interpreted that honor killing = murder. But somehow, people are not interpreting it that way for some reason. For some reason, even though the Qur'an "celebrates the inherent dignity bestowed by God upon all human beings regardless of race, ethnicity, gender or religion", women have less rights than animals in these countries, and people from other ethnicities become slaves, and of course you have people going to jail for being homosexual.



to answer briefly, honor killings don't just happen in islamic countries, India has a very big problem with it, and I'm sure other countries out there as well I'm not aware of.
And the second point you nailed it, it's all in the interpretation of the words... it is very simple, you just follow the book by the word like you said, but instead the nature of man is to bend anything and everything they can in their favour to benefit them which obviously results in horrible practices such as this.




Are all these islamic honour killers from Afghanistan?


Honor Killing: Islam's Gruesome Gallery - Atlas Shrugs (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/03/honor-killing-islams-gruesome-gallery.html)


no, but this specific thread was specifically about a specific region, specifically speaking Afghanistan... I could have easily said it happens in Saudi Arabia as well and other middle eastern countries, but this thread was specific to the Afghan region, so I tried to be as specific as possible.....
has my answer been specific enough for you ? I thought cops liked it when people answered questions straight up....
if you got some kind of bias (pretty obvious you do), I'm sorry I can't help you with that



Don't really know much about Islam, but if suicide and murder are 2/3 worst sins - whats the deal on "suicide bombers" and "jihad" in the name of their god? Is Jihad a sham?


Well the Western understanding of Jihad is a sham, the word itself isn't even what most people think it is.... everyone thinks it means holy war, but it literally means struggle against oppression.... meaning if I come into your land to take what's yours, you have the right to defend yourself like you would here.... Jihad means precisely that, and nothing else...
so off course by the fact that the USA literally occupies certain countries (no other way to put it) like Iraq, Afghanistan... it would be very easy for a citizen living there to involve the principle of Jihad, I personally understand it...
if America sent troops to Vancouver saying they're waging war on Stephen Harper, well personally I would be happy, he's a douche and he deserves it just for that haircut alone... but as a Canadian citizen when these American troops are killing my innocent fellow Canadians, I'd fckin wage Jihad on their ass too... they're in my house no matter how they're sugarcoating their words




You should elaborate on the non belief in God.. seeing as how those that have never heard of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc, would be rewarded the same way a Muslim would be, so long as they were a good person.


Well the thing is most people don't know actually I don't think anybody really knows unless you've read the Qu'ran yourself fully, My memory escapes me but from recollection it is said that by the end of time something like 72 sects of Christianity, 72 of Judaism and 73 of Islam will be prevalent, but only 1 sect from each side will make it to heaven, there was other factors in this as well but these are the main points I remember....
I don't know of any other mainstream religion that says as long as you yourself find a direct path to the true God, (meaning like you said being a good person and at least believing in a God) you will find entry to heaven....






And my last general point to anybody wondering, need to be aware of the fact that Islam was brought to a region that has been following tribal customs for a thousand, two, 3 thousand years before that.... tough to change thousand year old ways...
If you guys want to look at a really good example of what Islam can really mean to a society, do NOT look at these sand naggers in the Arabian peninsula and close by in these Central Asian regions, their ruling elite is mostly despised by their own people anyway, that's why you're seeing all the uprisings happening now... and out of 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide, that region only constitute of literally no more than 300 million... think about that number for a second... I mean there are more Muslims throughout the regions of China and nearby than there are in all of Arabia

take a good look at Malaysia, 50 years ago that country was nothing but jungle and swamp.... and now it houses some of the highest high rises in the world, some of the best schools, it is as modern and as peaceful as any country on this planet... Offcourse nobody is perfect, but in my opinion that is the best example of what Islam can do for your society when followed properly

[Manic!]

Not just Arabs,but East Indians too.

Do you remember a few years ago about a East Indian man who lived in the B.C interior who killed his daughter in the name of honour?

It was messed up,the reason he killed his daughter was because she was dating a First nations guy and he did not approve of the relationship at all.

A friend of mine was taken into Surrey pretrail during the time of his arrest,he was waiting around in the same room with him,both waiting to get booked,my friend told me,this man showed no remorse whatsoever,he was so stone faced with no emotion,he had cops come in screaming at him for the crime he did and they asked him if he had any idea how serious the crime he is going to be charged with.

Friend told me,the most fucked up thing was,he looked like he was proud of what he had done.

He killed here because the family moving from the interior to the mainland but she wanted to move in with her boyfriend and stay in the interior. The guy was white, lived with his brother and wife.

Father guilty of murdering daughter - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2005/03/04/bc-atwal20050305.html)


Another killing from Kitimat this time the father is white:

Kitimat father found not responsible for killing daughter - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/24/bc-kitimat-father-not-responsible.html)


Does it say anywhere in the bible that priests should molest children? but you see priest getting busted for molestation all the time.

[G-spec]

^ ya you nailed it, Manic....

if we wanna look at things righteously, then we can't judge any religion by it's worst followers.... if that was the case then everyone would see Christians as child molestors, Jews as...... well... as Jews... and every Muslim would be a suicide bomber.....

I find many, and I mean MANY people look at things this way though... sadly... too many

[spyker]

He killed here because the family moving from the interior to the mainland but she wanted to move in with her boyfriend and stay in the interior. The guy was white, lived with his brother and wife.

Father guilty of murdering daughter - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2005/03/04/bc-atwal20050305.html)


Another killing from Kitimat this time the father is white:

Kitimat father found not responsible for killing daughter - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/24/bc-kitimat-father-not-responsible.html)


Does it say anywhere in the bible that priests should molest children? but you see priest getting busted for molestation all the time.
When I saw the news,they said the boyfriend was native.

Regardless of whatever the race he was,the whole thing is just fucked up.

[gars]

Canada needs to grow some fucking balls and stop allowing our country to be an international garbage dump for immigrants that aren't welcome elsewhere. They abused the system to get in, and after murdering four people continue abusing it by having a fair trial. The victims are their own family, there's no justice to be had for anyone else so why is Canada fronting the bill for a trial? In the words of the late John McAleese "Bang bang, job done".

I hate these racist rants. Everybody is entitled to a fair trial. You can't just kick people out of the country without finding them guilty of a crime. If that was the case - we'd just turn into a police state. If the gov't wanted to kick an immigrant out - they can randomly accuse them of a crime - and without a trial - just kick them out.

Even someone who is the most apparent criminal deserves a trial - we, as the public, can't just decide that someone is guilty only by the information provided to us by the media and public. Just the same as a poor person who deserves to be fairly represented in court - with a public defender.

It may seem like a "waste of money" to have a trial - but it's a process we need to follow, lest we fall apart as a society - where people are found guilty without a trial.

[bloodmack]

I think its so sad that people use religion as an excuse to do these things. I am not a religious person myself, but if i was, I'd definitely be thinking that my god would not want me representing faith in him by sacrificing another or myself. Hell, you shouldn't even need a book or a person to even tell you that it is just plain wrong.

[StylinRed]

Ah, so it must be pure coincidence that only islamic countries do honor killing then.




have we all forgotten the Honour Killings by sikhs and hindus even the Local ones???

do we all ignore the coptic christian/greek orthodox etc honour killings? (happens in europe all the time)


only what you want to nitpick on gets remembered/targeted right?

and when it happens in the USA it just gets dismissed as "extremely depressed mother,father,etc" :rolleyes: like the mother that just killed her daughter/father/herself after sending her husband out on an errand

:facepalm:

[spyker]

Here is my take on a honour killing.

To me a honour killing is when something really fucked up happens in your life,like for example,your wife gets raped or your son or daughter gets molested,then I would have every reason to hunt down the mother fucker that did it and cut his head off.

I don't consider killing a loved one "honourable",but that's just my point of view.

[JD¹³]

I hate these racist rants.
My post has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, or religious beliefs. It has everything to do with immigrants who come to our country for a better life then the one they had elsewhere, who abuse our public systems and laws, and then hide behind the rights we all have in this country whether a citizen or not. All while Canadian citizens foot the bill.

They have a right to a fair trial because they're on Canadian soil, great. Once they're convicted: deport or extradite them back to their native country with a criminal record. I would love to see these people spend life sentences in an Afghan jail! Canadians should not be paying to feed, house, provide healthcare, and "rehabilitate" criminal immigrants IMO. That's like taking good care of a leech as it sucks your blood.

[gars]

My post has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, or religious beliefs. It has everything to do with immigrants who come to our country for a better life then the one they had elsewhere, who abuse our public systems and laws, and then hide behind the rights we all have in this country whether a citizen or not. All while Canadian citizens foot the bill.

They have a right to a fair trial because they're on Canadian soil, great. Once they're convicted: deport or extradite them back to their native country with a criminal record. I would love to see these people spend life sentences in an Afghan jail! Canadians should not be paying to feed, house, provide healthcare, and "rehabilitate" criminal immigrants IMO. That's like taking good care of a leech as it sucks your blood.

I agree that immigrants who commit a serious crime should be sent packing, but your original post was questioning his right to have a fair trial.

[SkinnyPupp]

have we all forgotten the Honour Killings by sikhs and hindus even the Local ones???

do we all ignore the coptic christian/greek orthodox etc honour killings? (happens in europe all the time)


only what you want to nitpick on gets remembered/targeted right?

and when it happens in the USA it just gets dismissed as "extremely depressed mother,father,etc" :rolleyes: like the mother that just killed her daughter/father/herself after sending her husband out on an errand

:facepalm:
OK so all religions have their own version of fucked up excuses to murder people.

[drunkrussian]

there are extremists in all religions, cultures (this case), races, gender and anything else. theyre crazies who justify it with their religion, culture or w/e the fuck else. if 9/11 was done by hindu extremists and not muslim ones this wouldnt get play and hindu crimes would. same ol shit, dont examine immigrant laws, examine people...for being crazy as shit. if u kill someone its not ok. period.
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[El Bastardo]

I'm not sure, man. I think things like this would make the news regardless of what happened on 9/11

'Honour killing' baby must be adopted to keep her safe from grandfather, court rules | News | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/21/honour-killing-baby-must-be-adopted-to-keep-her-safe-from-grandfather-court-rules/)

[StylinRed]

OK so all religions have their own version of fucked up excuses to murder people.

i can agree with that somewhat


ultimately i blame cultures, yes religion makes up a big part of culture, but cultural practices exist/persist throughout time regardless of what the "faith of the moment" is

using religion as an example you can see how new religions incorporate cultural practices.

also whats considered christianity/atheism/islam/judaism isn't exactly the same across the board depending on their geographic location due to cultural influences of that area

[V4NC1TY]

proud to be a Buddhist :fuckthatshit:

[Excelsis]

OK so all religions have their own version of fucked up excuses to murder people.

?????????????????



Does it say anywhere in the bible that priests should molest children? but you see priest getting busted for molestation all the time.

Where the hell did you get that? That's just a shit rule churches decided to use, every man is entitled to a woman, nowhere in the bible does it say that. So because they can't have women they turn to children.. which of course is wrong and fucked up

[2damaxmr2]

Religion of peace ... oh wait.

[StylinRed]

?????????????????


well skinny likes to blame religion so

since there are fucked up ppl honour killing their family members from all faiths
who use faith as an excuse for their act

although imo most of them arent using faith as a cop out they're just using the "you disrespect me/family" so you die

but since white ppl like bringing faith into the argument whatever ;)

[LiquidTurbo]

Real Honour Killings would be killing the guy.

[SkinnyPupp]

I don't blame religion just because it's religion. A lot of people have done fucked up shit in the name of "science" too. Look at eugenics, which still exists. I drive by a eugenics school in hong kong every time I go to the gym :heckno:

[SkinnyPupp]

But then you could argue that a normal critically thinking scientific person would look at eugenics, and determine that it's fucked up, and pursue something else instead. Since they don't need "blind faith"
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[Excelsis]

i hate religion in that it splits people together but we're all the same really, we're all humans

but at the same time i know a few people that turned to God and it's like they had this revelation, an epiphany of their entire life.. Not going crazy over the bible and the stories, but they developed some sort of faith that allowed them to be more lively

[Mr.C]

For this sort of crime, they would be beheaded in an Islamic country, correct? Can't we extradite them to Afghanistan and let them take care of it?

[drunkrussian]

insanity causes these things

culture fosters and catalyzes these things

religion gets used as an excuse for these things
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[LiquidTurbo]

The greatest shame imaginable is when good and intelligent people allow themselves to pass judgement on an entire segment of society based on the actions of a few, unfortunate and misguided individuals. Recognize that through the Qur'an, Islam, does not preach terrorism or honour killings and that these are simply individuals who have allowed themselves to be manipulated and blinded to the true teachings of an honourable religion. These people do not represent Islam, they represent a sickeningly inaccurate misinterpretation of it.

So,

What's to blame here?

[Noir]

I think its so sad that people use religion as an excuse to do these things. I am not a religious person myself, but if i was, I'd definitely be thinking that my god would not want me representing faith in him by sacrificing another or myself. Hell, you shouldn't even need a book or a person to even tell you that it is just plain wrong.

It's not an excuse. It IS the reason.

1. Historically, religion has been the basis of mankind's moral compass. (Even today we chastise women for being sexually liberated - or as liberated as their male counterparts; this even in our supposed very culture forward western society)

2. Religion is the one that dictates the severity of consequence should an individual deviate from their righteous path.

- How many Christian children grow up in an iron rule?
- How many Christian children are indoctrinated and feared into christianity about stories w/ the Devil, Lake of fire, eternal torment by demons

(and can you believe it, that's just the tip of the iceberg - it goes as far as family disownership - honour killings in other religion)

[The7even]

Ah, so it must be pure coincidence that only islamic countries do honor killing then.

Of course if you go 'by the letter of the book' it can be interpreted that honor killing = murder. But somehow, people are not interpreting it that way for some reason. For some reason, even though the Qur'an "celebrates the inherent dignity bestowed by God upon all human beings regardless of race, ethnicity, gender or religion", women have less rights than animals in these countries, and people from other ethnicities become slaves, and of course you have people going to jail for being homosexual.

Not sure if your first sentence is sarcasm.

You might not know it, but your fight is actually with customs and culture. I told you before, those two influence a populations religion more than anything..

I can give you an example.. one that I experience and know first hand.

[The7even]

So,

What's to blame here?

Well since the answer isn't that simple, why don't we just blame religion instead lol?

Actually, to blame here is human stupidity, culture and customs. Shit that was fucked up and there before any religion was spread to those people.

I can tell you, those will decide what people do with their faith.

[spyker]

I drive by a eugenics school in hong kong every time I go to the gym :heckno:

Skinny,I gotta ask.....what the hell is eugenics?

[Graeme S]

Skinny,I gotta ask.....what the hell is eugenics?
Let me google that for you (http://bit.ly/szBDlb)

[Gridlock]

Skinny,I gotta ask.....what the hell is eugenics?

Planned Parenthood's original mission statement. Putting the 'planned' in parenthood.

[observer]

I think its so sad that people use religion as an excuse to do these things. I am not a religious person myself, but if i was, I'd definitely be thinking that my god would not want me representing faith in him by sacrificing another or myself. Hell, you shouldn't even need a book or a person to even tell you that it is just plain wrong.

Sadly that's exactly what Abraham was asked to do to his own son Isaac.

The harsh reality is that people use religion to manipulate others. The common people see religion as true, the wise as false, and the rulers, useful.

Of course, you have idiots completely blinded by faith and do irrational things such as faith healing, child exorcism, picking creationism over evolution, refraining from blood transfusion even in critical situations, you name it. It's not just an excuse, there are people out there who truly believe in the nonsense, just like fortune-tellers, astrology.

[goo3]

Lets remember that this guy hasn't been convicted yet. Sure, he seems guilty as fuck but the case is still in trial.

Laws of Canada aside, could his lawyers successfully argue that any death that occurred happened as a result of his cultural beliefs clashing with the laws of this country and use that to garner a non-guilty verdict?

Its happened before: Muslim girl gang, who kicked Rhea Page in the head yelling 'kill the white slag,' FREED | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070562/Muslim-girl-gang-kicked-Rhea-Page-head-yelling-kill-white-slag-FREED.html)

Headline:

"Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed after judge hears 'they weren't used to drinking because they're Muslims'"

What the judge did:

"The four women, who all live in Leicester, were each sentenced to six-month jail terms, suspended for 12 months, at Leicester Crown Court last month.
Hibo Maxamed also received a four-month curfew between 9pm and 6am, while the others were ordered to carry out 150 hours of unpaid work.
Judge Brown said that ‘those who knock someone to the floor and kick them in the head can expect to go inside’.
But he said he accepted the women may have felt they were the victims of unreasonable force from Mr Moore as he tried to defend his girlfriend, and handed the defendants a suspended sentence."

:suspicious:

Yes, it's happened before. By that I mean ppl reading shit newspapers like they're textbooks. There's already a law called murder. Here's another thing: it's not illegal to lie. And there's a lot of ppl who go out and lie (politicians, ideological nut jobs, etc) to make it on the news. It doesn't mean you have to believe what they say.

[El Bastardo]

Bumping this old thread with a new piece of news.

For months, Bahar Ebrahimi had been rebelling against her parents, complaining their Afghan culture and Muslim religion were suffocating her. “I want to enjoy my life. I want to feel what the other ones feel,” she told them, according to her mother’s statement to police.

It was June, 2010, Grand Prix weekend in downtown Montreal, and on two straight nights the 19-year-old stayed out past dawn against her parents’ wishes.

...

As her crying husband spoke to Bahar in the basement of their Dorval home, Ms. Kaleki went upstairs and grabbed a large knife from the kitchen counter, the one she used to chop meat, she recounted. “I said, ‘This is the time.’ ”

She hid the knife under her T-shirt, returned to the basement, and told her husband the problem would best be resolved between mother and daughter. “Just leave us alone for five minutes,” she said she told him. “Don’t come until I call you.”

He left and she cuddled her first-born and told her to lie on her stomach so she could give her a back massage. “Then I stab her, stab her neck,” she confessed. “She said, ‘No Mom!’ I said, ‘It’s for your good. Let me finish.’ ”

Earlier in the interrogation, Sgt.-Det. Bertrand has asked whether the knife blade was sharp. “No, it wasn’t,” she replied. “I wish it was. I wanted to give her the peace that she needed.”

...

Bahar survived the attack, suffering serious knife wounds to her head and shoulder. Ms. Kaleki, 40, is charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault and illegal use of a weapon.

Her husband, alerted by Bahar’s screams, rushed downstairs and grabbed the knife from Ms. Kaleki, the court heard. “I said to my husband, let me finish her.’ ” She tried to choke her daughter, she said, and after Bahar escaped, she chased her upstairs and tried to break down the locked door to the bedroom where she was calling 911.

...

“I hope she gets well,” she said referring to her daughter. But she did not want her to emerge unscarred.

“She live with that wound,” she continued, pointing to her neck, “she remembers me.” The experience “will make her strong and give her wisdom. . . . It means she will give up her ways of living.”


Afghan-Canadian mother described allegedly stabbing daughter to police | Canada | News | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/26/its-for-your-good-let-me-finish-afghan-canadian-told-police-she-stabbed-daughter-with-kitchen-knife/)

[mtnrat]

"I cannot be tolerant of the intolerant." Pretty much sums up my thoughts.