[MG1]

I took some Asian Studies courses at UBC and became fascinated with Chinese History. The dynasties, territorial battles, and whatnot. None of this stuff was ever covered in any HS curriculum. I'm wondering if there are any Asian History buffs out there on RS.

In HS, I was heavily involved in table top wargaming. My specialty was the Napoleonic period. I knew all the regiments at Waterloo and studied the strategies and warfare of the time period. The British line vs the French columns, forming squares to fend off calvary, various types of canon fire, Polish Lancers, Swiss Militia, French Cuirasseurs, The Scottish Black Watch, etc. Later on I got involved in micro armor (WWII). Panzer divisions, Rommel, Montgomery, North Africa, etc.

At present, I have totally immersed myself in Japanese history. In particular, the Meiji Restoration period. My hobby of building small scale models has me digging up stuff on the Imperial Japanese Navy. My latest build, the IJN Mikasa, has an incredible history.

Up until the Americans (Admiral Perry) showed up in Japanese waters, Japan was the only Asian nation not invaded, or in part, colonized by western forces. The western nations had power over everybody, and Japan was to be next.

Asians at the time were considered inferior in every way and when it came to trade, it was a one sided deal. Asians were made fun of and bullied.

more later............





This may turn out to be one of those one person threads, but what the hell. People can choose to read this stuff or not, and it's not hurting anybody. Might learn some stuff in the process............ truly "off topic".

[spoon.ek9]

I've always wanted to learn more about Chinese history but didn't know where to start. I too wish they had taught these things in highschool at some point.

In for more history :thumbsup:

[Gilgamesh]

I believe they do a small section of Chinese history in grade 8. Something about the Ming dynasty and the ones that precede it. They do a Japanese component in grade six, but it is more geared towards culture, rather than history. I enrolled in a Japanese History course at SFU, which would have been great, except it focused on social history.

[SkinnyPupp]

Yes this stuff interests me, especially Hong Kong history (from the formation of the colony all the way until the handover) British history (pretty much all of it fascinates me, kingdoms, castles, etc) and Chinese history (mostly the post dynasty era) which is why I get really mad when I see the propaganda coming out of there today in movies etc, where they completely rewrite history.

[Hondaracer]

Londons museam of national history or w/e its called is pretty amazing for a days learning of the british empire, theyve got a tonne of stuff from all the plundering they did throughout their reign, amazing stuff and 100% must do it you go to London, everything from Samurai armour to the Rosetta stone

[SkinnyPupp]

Yes I would SOOOOOOOOOO love to see that :fullofwin:

[MG1]

Hong Kong History must be absolutely fascinating.

British influence around the world.

Hondaracer, London Museum. Thanks........ if I ever get to go overseas.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb75/89blkcivic/Canucks/Sc85_2A27_full.jpg

[1exotic]

I'm wondering if there are any Asians out there on RS.



I think this site is mostly blacks and hispanic

[SkinnyPupp]

One of the more interesting Hong Kong historical figures I came across was the governor John Pope Hennessey. I had no idea that until his tenure in the 1870's, Chinese people weren't allowed to own land in Hong Kong.

He changed that, and I suppose that is the beginning of the end of chinese people being second class citizens here. (and that is literal, not figurative)

[JoshuaWong]

I took asian history in kwantlen too, it was one of the best/most interesting class i have ever taken. Would recommend people taking it.

Traditional East Asian history 1150 was the course and true to the professor's word, traditional east asia pretty much means China for the first couple thousand years, later on Japan & Korea came into relevance. It should help a lot of people understand China especially about what is going on right now regarding the rise of China and politics versus the outside world. You can begin to see why China is the oldest continuing civilization and was for most of the time in the ancient world one of the most powerful and wealthy state due to its combination of values, traditions, centripedal forces etc.

After I took it, I began to see things in a different light regarding China. You can call it pro China brainwashing or something but whatever they are doing over there for the last 5000 years, its definitely working. Think of other superpowers like USA, they've been around for less than 400 years and now they are driving themselves into the ground.

[SkinnyPupp]

Another interesting story is how Britain controlled so many important cities throughout China.. Of course Hong Kong, Kowloon, and New Territories were 'rented' from China, but that wasn't always the case with these cities.

Governor Fred Lugard offered to give back one of these cities in exchange for New Territories to become a permanent British colony. Had the chinese accepted, Hong Kong would most likely still be British controlled today, and probably forever.

[Valour]

Lol i started my asian history binge with RotTK and then Dynasty Warriors. Oh yeah and the James Clavell series of books.

[StylinRed]

took asian history as well cant remember most of it was fascinated with the design/thought process that went into the forbidden city though is actually quite remarkable

personal note my moms grandfather on her mothers side was a provincial governor or whatever for the king (and his father before him etc) in china my aunt still has his outfit and some umbrella like flag and painting that the king bestowed on him

supposedly it was insanely risky for them to keep it because of the communist party and cultural revolution but some things still survived which is really cool

[MG1]

I think this site is mostly blacks and hispanic

We could discuss Hogan's Alley............ but that belongs in this thread.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/587745-vancouver-history.html

[1309#21]

Started my Asian history with TVB series way back in the days :fuckyea:

Favorite one would probably be 尋秦記, a step into the past. Although some to most of the history in that show is probably wrong :P

[AutozamAZ-3]

A little bit further off topic, but chinese canadians also have an interesting history with the head tax, and construction of the railroads and all.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[MG1]

A little bit further off topic, but chinese canadians also have an interesting history with the head tax, and construction of the railroads and all.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Yes, lots of history with all immigrants to our country. Chinese, South Asians, Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, Ukrainians, Germans, Italians, you name it..........

The immigrants who fought during both wars for Canada, yet another historical topic. Then, in the case of some Japanese Canadians, who fought in the first world war, being interned in the second world war (even decorated veterans).

[LiquidTurbo]

Wikipedia "Unit 731". Stuff I bet you didn't learn in school.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Asian studies was my major lol.

i couldn't remember any of the fucking chinese names and there were a lot of them.

too many x's and q's.

lol, and learning why basically all of asia hates japan... except maybe indonesia.

[MG1]

Read the wiki pages..........

After Imperial Japan surrendered to the Allies in 1945, Douglas MacArthur became the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, rebuilding Japan during the Allied occupation. MacArthur secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 in exchange for providing America, but not the other wartime allies, with their research on biological warfare.[7] American occupation authorities monitored the activities of former unit members, including reading and censoring their mail.[26] The U.S. believed that the research data was valuable. The U.S. did not want other nations, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons.[27]

[MG1]

Chinese short stories, one of the Asian Studies courses at the time, was cool. The role of women in Chinese culture and history was also a favourite one.

[achiam]

Londons museam of national history or w/e its called is pretty amazing for a days learning of the british empire, theyve got a tonne of stuff from all the plundering they did throughout their reign, amazing stuff and 100% must do it you go to London, everything from Samurai armour to the Rosetta stone

OMG. I was just there 2 weeks ago. I spent nearly 3 hours just in the persian art section -- they showed how persian ceramic art varied with time due to arab invaders, and even chinese/mongol invaders. Looking at how the art patterns changed was a direct reflection of their history!

[Domani]

Asian Studies Major (east asia focus) here...

[MG1]

Awesome! I have tonnes of questions to ask you and Ulic about Meiji Restoration............ later. Gotta get sleep some.

[keifun]

Didn't learn any Asian history in high school. It was all boring Canadian history for me during Social Studies class.

[q0192837465]

read a lot of books about chinese history over the years. It is amazing how thing are so much more interesting if you are not tested on it.

[goo3]

Londons museam of national history or w/e its called is pretty amazing for a days learning of the british empire, theyve got a tonne of stuff from all the plundering they did throughout their reign, amazing stuff and 100% must do it you go to London, everything from Samurai armour to the Rosetta stone

Would this not be the British Museum?

[AutozamAZ-3]

Didn't learn any Asian history in high school. It was all boring Canadian history for me during Social Studies class.

High school social studies is meant to culture you to learn about canadian history, values, and norms. It isn't until post secondary school that you can start specializing into anything past that.

In fact, its wasn't until recently (after the redresses) that high school social studies started even talking about early asian settlers (or at least the negatives) in canada.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE CHINESE HISTORY.

I have a collection of ALL Romance of the Three Kingdoms books, movies and games (1-11).

Here is a list of all dynasties
Dynasties in Chinese history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history)

There are four dynasties that interest me, the Warring States Period戰國時代, Qin Dynasty秦朝,Han dynasty漢朝, Three Kingdoms三國.

the warring states period - Qin Shihuang fought and defeated the other 6 states.

Qin Dynasty - Qin Shihuang first Emperor of China, because of the ruthless ruling this emperor lasted for 14 years. which leads to Han Dynasty.

Liu Bang and Hong Yiu ( greatest fighter at that time) lead a successful rebellion against the Qin. Liu Bang and Hong Yiu then split china into 2 parts. a peace treaty was signed but Liu Bang back stabbed Hong Yiu and took over China. (204–203 BC This is the time when Chinese chess were invented. If you look at the chinese chess board, in the middle it says Chu River, Han Land. 楚河漢界, a symbol represents an even split of china..

Han Dynasty - King Liu Bang, first Emperor that lasted more then 300 years, very impressive numbers at that time.

Three Kingdoms - At the end of Han Dynasty, the king Liu Xie 劉協 had minimum or even had absolute no control over his empror.. Soo the he asked Cao Cao for support .. then it spelled DISASTER, The Cao's family had soo much power that they force the Han King to step down the throne and Cao Cao's son Cao Pei became King of china (part of china). Liu Bei (blood related to Liu Xie and Liu Bang) then quickly crowned himself king and so did Sun Quan. Sooo that is how the Three Kingdom is formed (WEI, SHU, WU). Later, Wei conquered Shu and Wu and then after sometime, the Sima family betrayed the Cao's family and the Sima family became king of China.

Some of the famous battles during the 3 kingdom period.

Battle of Hu Lao Gate - ( Dong Zhou, Lu Bu, Zhang Liao, Hoa Hong Vs allies Yuan Shao, Cao Cao, Lu Bei,)
Victory - allies forces

Battle of Battle of Guandu - ( Cao Cao vs Yuan Shao) Cao Cao had 2 weeks of supplies while Yuan Shao is filled with goodies
Forces - Cao Cao - 40,000 men. Yuan Shao had 110,000 men
Victory - Cao Cao

Battle of Red Cliffs 赤壁之戰 - ( Cao Cao vs Sun Qian and Liu Bei ) VERY FAMOUS BATTLE.
Forces - cao cao 800,000 men . Sun Quan and Liu Bei combined 50,000 men.
Victory - Sun Quan/Liu Bei. Cao Cao lost more then 250,000 men

Battle of Xiaoting - ( SHU Liu Bei vs WU Sun Qian ) Liu Bei's revenge for Guan Yiu's execution done by WU.
Forces - SHU Liu Bei 100,000 men vs WU Sun Quan 50,000 men.
Victor - WU. Liu Bei lost 80,000 men and he also died after the battle. (illness)


Please feel free to comment.!!~~ some info might not be a 100% correct!!

[will068]

Up until the Americans (Admiral Perry) showed up in Japanese waters, Japan was the only Asian nation not invaded, or in part, colonized by western forces. The western nations had power over everybody, and Japan was to be next.

Asians at the time were considered inferior in every way and when it came to trade, it was a one sided deal. Asians were made fun of and bullied.



To this day, my Japanese friends pride themselves for a nation not being conquered by the west. It's unfortunate that Imperial Japan acted Nazi on East Asia back then.

[will068]

Would this not be the British Museum?

Damn. I've been sent by my company a few times to London for work this year. I have only been to the National Museum in Trafagar. I definitely need to hit up the other museums.

[CharlieH]

^

learning about louis riel and the metis in socials 11 hahaha

[SkinnyPupp]

I had the absolutely worst socials teacher you can possibly imagine in grade 10 or 11. I'll talk about why later, but man having a bad teacher can really affect how students do in school
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[twitchyzero]

i was really interested in learning about the 20th century world powers in high school history 12...too bad my current major didn't allow much flexibility or else I would've chosen some as electives...regardless i knew it would include tons of writing which i hate.

i'm quite intrigued at the history of taiwan...just because it's so friggin complicated and ties in with my roots but i am discouraged to post it because most are apathetic towards the topic.

can anyone recommend a largely unbiased history book on taiwan? friend suggested one before but i forgot the name of it. More interested to learning about it before the 1895 - WWII Japanese occupation.

[FerrariEnzo]

have you seen the movie "Red Cliff"... very very good...

"Romance of the Three Kingdoms" is also another good series...

[SkinnyPupp]

BTW don't confuse "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" with actual history during that period. One has very little to do with the other, except some names and perhaps some events.

Saying you like history is one thing, but if you base that on ROTK, then you like historical drama, not history.

[SFUguy]

You know what I find interesting is the Bai Yue 百越. They lived south of the Yellow River. They were known collectively as the "100 Yue" (Yue = Viet) before the Han dynasty conquered them and Sinicized them. The Vietnamese believe that they are the last of the Yue that have not been made into Han people. They want to wake up all of the south Chinese people that they are not Chinese but really "Yue" people and make them hate the Han people.. lol

[murmur]

i love reading Romance of Three Kingdoms
it improves my chinese, especially from reading the chinese novel/comic (drawn from mainland china).

the saddest part is the post-Zhuge Liang period.
Jiang Wei, Zhuge Liang's protege, used every attempt to rescue Shu, but his ability was heavily limited by Liu Shan the King (who is worst than Kim Jong-il, always drinking and didn't consider for the country).

---

off-topic:

i am always interested in the 'modern' multi-culturalism of china
especially the rise of uyghurs in western china, the korean heritage in northern china, and the sino-north korean relationship.

[iEatClams]

imo, stay away from Rape of Nanking (True Events) , it's like the chinese holocaust. that shiet will give you creeps.

I always enjoyed learning about Gengkis Khan and Attila the Hun. (mostly from the old school Age of Empires games), which lead me to look into these two guys more.

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

lol what's the rape of naking about?

[LiquidTurbo]

lol what's the rape of naking about?

Try Googling it?

That's like asking "What's the Holocaust about?"

[hongy]

lol what's the rape of naking about?

Chinese capital got raped by japanese soldiers. Both figuratively and Literally.

[murmur]

Chinese capital got raped by japanese soldiers. Both figuratively and Literally.

with the japanese government not admitting to the incident
while trying to exclude the massacre on japanese textbooks.

sometimes it angers me on how anti-sino news outlets placed so much emphasis on tianamen massacre and not paying same amount of attention on the rape of nanjing and andjian (uzbek) massacre. (mind you, i really hate and pity the tiananmen massacre)
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[european]

History is pretty sweet! Fun times learning :)

[hongy]

with the japanese government not admitting to the incident
while trying to exclude the massacre on japanese textbooks.

sometimes it angers me on how anti-sino news outlets placed so much emphasis on tianamen massacre and not paying same amount of attention on the rape of nanjing and andjian (uzbek) massacre. (mind you, i really hate and pity the tiananmen massacre)
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Tianamen square was done by communists crushing democracy, that makes the news sensational as fuck to westerners. Where as rape of Nanking happened to a country that no one likes and was done by people that are now considered world leaders.

It is very fucked up that when you hear about people saying the Holocaust was faked or not real or anything along those lines there is an immediate backlash, but something like the rape of Nanking gets completely overlooked both on a small scale and a larger/international scale.

[murmur]

there's a couple of incidents in recent asian history that i would always tell my grandchildren about:

jasmine revolution: the attempted revolution against chinese government (2011)

2011 Chinese pro-democracy protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Chinese_pro-democracy_protests)

story: with the revolution happening in african countries, couple of chinese netizens were influenced to start up a revolution against the corrupted communist government. giant cities, such as shanghai, guangzhou, chengdu, hong kong, etc were on big alert. plaincloth policemen and secret police were wary of the situation.

result: as per the wiki, the revolution was tightly controlled and did not become successful. people were arrested. hong kong, a society that is currently supressed by the communist government (i am from hong kong), has people that wanted to join the revolution. few days before the planned revolution, the government did a knee-jerk reaction by offering each hong kong citizen $6000 HKD (roughly around $900 CAD). the revolution in hong kong was just a bare "eff you" in front of the sino-hong kong headquarter.

another incident:

2010 kyrgyzstani revolution: a success against cronyism

2010 Kyrgyzstani revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kyrgyzstani_revolution)

this incident tells crony governments around the world to take serious and good care of its citizens..or else..

[murmur]

this is a good video to watch:

Bride Kidnapping in Kyrgyzstan.

Bride Kidnapping in Kyrgyzstan | VICE News | VICE (http://www.vice.com/vice-news/bride-kidnapping-in-kyrgyzstan-part-1)

i was very :fulloffuck: after seeing it.

a classic case of traditions vs. western views.

[donjalapeno]

i love ww2 stories...the documentaries on the holocaust and other battles is absolutely fascinating but it leaves me sad every single time i watch the holocaust ones. Its eery and scary as hell the way the leaders of the nazi would sit around a big table and talk about what chemicals and methods would kill more jews at a lower cost....and just other things to do to get rid of them. gives me goosebumps

[pastarocket]

Didn't learn any Asian history in high school. It was all boring Canadian history for me during Social Studies class.

+1. -also never learned any Asian history in high school. Social Studies and Western Civilization courses covered the Greeks, Renaissance period, and Canadian history.

[MG1]

The awesome technology the Chinese had. You list them and it's mind boggling how the west had none of that stuff.

Marco Polo..........

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

this is a good video to watch:

Bride Kidnapping in Kyrgyzstan.

Bride Kidnapping in Kyrgyzstan | VICE News | VICE (http://www.vice.com/vice-news/bride-kidnapping-in-kyrgyzstan-part-1)

i was very :fulloffuck: after seeing it.

a classic case of traditions vs. western views.

that is sick and very sad... what the f**k??

[niu99]

Prisoners of war in china (the korean war)

They Choose China - YouTube

[hongy]

Skinnypup why the fail? I'll admit I was both tired+a bit bias about the whole topic but I've seen you talk about people failing without explanation so whats up?

[Anjew]

Try Googling it?

That's like asking "What's the Holocaust about?"

dont be to hard on people.. its just a simple conversational question that one may not even realize they asked. Or maybe they would like to hear the guys version of those accounts that creeped him out?

we're supposed to be a community...

sick of the google it replys. just dont say anything? how hard is that.

/rant

[K-Dub]

Wonderful thread. subscribed.

[SkinnyPupp]

Skinnypup why the fail? I'll admit I was both tired+a bit bias about the whole topic but I've seen you talk about people failing without explanation so whats up?
I didn't like the way you downplayed the severity of tianmen square, suggesting that it was only 'sensationalized' by western media. It's not just western media that considers it a pretty big deal, there are a lot of pro-democracy people that are quite affected by the event and of course all those that preceded it.

The nanjing massacre was an atrocity commited by a warring nation on another. The things that Mao did afterward make it look acceptable, if you want to consider pure body count, or the complete 'rape' of a culture. It's ironic that in a thread that is celebrating chinese and asian culture, where most of the culture has been bleached out of china, and replaced by what we see now. All this fascinating history, art, literature, science, and what's left?

Sorry for the semi drunk rant

[murmur]

bananana or whatever your name is
if you fail me, at least state a reason.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

uh... i'm sure there's a lot more to discuss than just what happened within the past 100 years, which also happens to be the least interesting, unless you're talking about atomic bombs and computers and other high tech inventions.

lets not forget about Genghis Khan?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mKmwLTBGJqQ/TdPEOwTharI/AAAAAAAAA8A/rIBv2ObYL-8/s1600/genghis%2Bkhan%2Bor%2Btemudjin.jpg

i forgot which town or city it was or the exact details... basically he's all nice and sends some gift baskets over to some place he wants as part of his empire, in hopes the ruler dude will accept and join him, but instead of being all smart and accepting his gift, they fucking kill the messenger. lol sucks to be him.

anyway, so Genghis basically flattens the city, and kills EVERY man woman and child. lol. like literally removes the city and all its inhabitants and all of its history from the face of the planet.

im sure he did this to a lot of cities, he basically only spared people if they surrender quickly/immediately. and he kept "useful" people like scientists/philosphers/artists etc.

the rest of the people were usually turned into slaves. he sometimes spared the kids and women. but i'd imagine it was usually a just a lot of raping and pillaging, and killing everything that moved and burning everything down.

but often he'd just turn the whole city into rubble, and kill every man woman and child.
pretty crazy dude. he coulda taken northern africa and europe if he didnt die.

he controlled the largest physically connected empire to ever exist.

the thing is he was a good "ruler". he wasnt just a crazy tyrant (only if you opposed him duh). he'd often let you run things the way it was. your religion, your culture etc. you just have to serve his empire. he wouldn't "convert" you to his mongol ways. he would have advisors and consultants of every religion and background. i thought that was super cool.

kinda like a board of directors, ya got your christians, buddhists, taoists etc. all in one room, under khan.

[SFUguy]

^ yeah look at the mongolians now. they only have 2million+ people in their country!!

Mongolia was supposed to be part of China. But the Russians made sure that Mongolia would be freed. LOL!

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yeah well look at the egyptians, romans, spanish, portuguese, brazil, japanese, or persia... err iran.. the list goes on.
if you list every great empire that has ever existed, i can bet you 70%+ of them are ":heckno:" now.

lol, NO empire has held their own against the test of time. unless you look at all of humans as one empire, then we've thrived exponentially lol.

[murmur]

Genghis Khan's death:

"The Galician-Volhynian Chronicle alleges he was killed by the Tanguts in battle. Later Mongol chronicles connect Genghis' death with a Tangut princess taken as war booty. One chronicle from the early 17th century even relates that the princess hid a small pair of pliers inside her vagina, and hurt the Great Khan so badly that he died. Some Mongol authors have doubted this version and suspected it to be an invention by the rival Oirads.[36]"

:heckno:

[SFUguy]

yeah well look at the egyptians, romans, spanish, portuguese, brazil, japanese, or persia... err iran.. the list goes on.
if you list every great empire that has ever existed, i can bet you 70%+ of them are ":heckno:" now.

lol, NO empire has held their own against the test of time. unless you look at all of humans as one empire, then we've thrived exponentially lol.

China still survives and thrives to this day.

Oh. And Turkey. The re-emergence of Turkey. Not quite Muslim. Not quite European. Not quite Middle Eastern. Nobody knows what the fuck it is. But they are coming.....................FOR YOU!

[hongy]

I didn't like the way you downplayed the severity of tianmen square, suggesting that it was only 'sensationalized' by western media. It's not just western media that considers it a pretty big deal, there are a lot of pro-democracy people that are quite affected by the event and of course all those that preceded it.

The nanjing massacre was an atrocity commited by a warring nation on another. The things that Mao did afterward make it look acceptable, if you want to consider pure body count, or the complete 'rape' of a culture. It's ironic that in a thread that is celebrating chinese and asian culture, where most of the culture has been bleached out of china, and replaced by what we see now. All this fascinating history, art, literature, science, and what's left?

Sorry for the semi drunk rant

Oh sorrry about that. I wasn't trying to down play the significance of tianmen square. What I was trying to say was that over here in the western world we are shown how ruthless China is and how horrible it is to live there. Where as something like Nanking is not given the same value as the Holocaust.

Actually I'm not sure most people know very much about the atrocities done by the Japanese versus the Nazi.

[iEatClams]

Where as something like Nanking is not given the same value as the Holocaust.



Nanking was very unfortunate, but it's not given the same value because it lasted a few weeks, and was really just one city. Although it is significant and should not be dismissed, the Holocaust itself was just a much larger scale.

The holocaust was in many countries for the duration of an entire World War, with 10 + million Jews dead, and related a lot more to people of the western world.

[will068]

Oh sorrry about that. I wasn't trying to down play the significance of tianmen square. What I was trying to say was that over here in the western world we are shown how ruthless China is and how horrible it is to live there. Where as something like Nanking is not given the same value as the Holocaust.

Actually I'm not sure most people know very much about the atrocities done by the Japanese versus the Nazi.

The rape of Nanking was atrocious, but Imperial Japan did to every country they conquered in WWII. Perhaps the Nanking incident is downplayed because it shouldn't be just focused on Nanking but all of East Asia.


Also, it depends which part of the world you live in. Growing up in the Philippines until I was 10, you get immersed with Asian History. And since world war history always intrigued me, it was easier for me to learn about what the Philippines and Asia went through during WWII (e.g. books, parents, grand parents, and older people telling you about how they lived). So yeah, I definitely knew about the Rape of Nanking, but I didn't really know much about the Holocaust, nor was I that interested at that time. Only when I became much older was when I got more exposed to more information and my interest grew.

When millions of white people get slaughtered, yes, white people care. When millions of non whites get slaughtered, the western world will not care to the same degree. And this is true for other nationalities and races. Just look at Koreans and how Korean Nationals are pissed off the most with the Japanese Government because of how Japan is rewriting their history - especially with their treatment of Korea in the past.

[will068]

Genghis Khan's death:

"The Galician-Volhynian Chronicle alleges he was killed by the Tanguts in battle. Later Mongol chronicles connect Genghis' death with a Tangut princess taken as war booty. One chronicle from the early 17th century even relates that the princess hid a small pair of pliers inside her vagina, and hurt the Great Khan so badly that he died. Some Mongol authors have doubted this version and suspected it to be an invention by the rival Oirads.[36]"

:heckno:


http://www.gifflix.com/files/dfd9cf40c68c.gif

[niu99]

Oh sorrry about that. I wasn't trying to down play the significance of tianmen square. What I was trying to say was that over here in the western world we are shown how ruthless China is and how horrible it is to live there. Where as something like Nanking is not given the same value as the Holocaust.

Actually I'm not sure most people know very much about the atrocities done by the Japanese versus the Nazi.

When Japanese soldiers killed people (men. women and children), they used all kinds of methods humanly imaginable, such as shooting, bayoneting, beheading, killing with bamboo spears, burying alive, beating to death, hanging, setting on fire, running over by trucks, and you name it.

watch "Men Behind the Sun" if u want see the gruesome acts carried out in unit 731.

[hongy]

When millions of white people get slaughtered, yes, white people care. When millions of non whites get slaughtered, the western world will not care to the same degree. And this is true for other nationalities and races. Just look at Koreans and how Korean Nationals are pissed off the most with the Japanese Government because of how Japan is rewriting their history - especially with their treatment of Korea in the past.

When Japanese soldiers killed people (men. women and children), they used all kinds of methods humanly imaginable, such as shooting, bayoneting, beheading, killing with bamboo spears, burying alive, beating to death, hanging, setting on fire, running over by trucks, and you name it.

watch "Men Behind the Sun" if u want see the gruesome acts carried out in unit 731.

This was what I attempted at saying. Majority of people have no idea what happened over on the East during the war.

Sorry for derailing the thread.

[will068]

This was what I attempted at saying. Majority of people have no idea what happened over on the East during the war.

Sorry for derailing the thread.

haha, It's still history :)

What I loved to learn more is about Genghis Khan and the dynasties he propagated. What helped his Clan to be successful was their sheer physical size compared to their opponents.

Vitlai Klitschko is said to be a descendant from the original Khan clan where Genghis Khan was. For those of you who may not know, Vitali is a 6'7" heavyweight boxer.

[bananana]

there's a couple of incidents in recent asian history that i would always tell my grandchildren about:

jasmine revolution: the attempted revolution against chinese government (2011)

2011 Chinese pro-democracy protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Chinese_pro-democracy_protests)

story: with the revolution happening in african countries, couple of chinese netizens were influenced to start up a revolution against the corrupted communist government. giant cities, such as shanghai, guangzhou, chengdu, hong kong, etc were on big alert. plaincloth policemen and secret police were wary of the situation.

result: as per the wiki, the revolution was tightly controlled and did not become successful. people were arrested. hong kong, a society that is currently supressed by the communist government (i am from hong kong), has people that wanted to join the revolution. few days before the planned revolution, the government did a knee-jerk reaction by offering each hong kong citizen $6000 HKD (roughly around $900 CAD). the revolution in hong kong was just a bare "eff you" in front of the sino-hong kong headquarter.



bananana or whatever your name is
if you fail me, at least state a reason.

:suspicious:

The "Jasmine Revolution" was of zero significance in China. It never gained any support whatsoever, not due to government intervention, but because it was extremely poorly planned over an extremely short period of time. It's execution was pretty laughable - officially it was pinned onto an American-Chinese who posted on a online blog telling locals to show support by carrying Jasmine flowers down streets in China.

You must realize this is China where it is illegal to hold such protests. The Chinese government did send a large amount of police forces in case things did happen but nothing did - here in Shanghai, people joked that there were more Police that showed up than "supporters" of any kind. The final result of the Jasmine Revolution: Linkedin was banned in China (for a week).

Completely unrelated, the HKD$6000 was given to citizens because of a surplus of funds in the HK Government who were hoping to place the funds into the pension system. They decided against this as pension funds would only be of benefit to the more well-off citizens. The hopes were that handing out cash indiscriminately would promote consumer spending, thus putting the money back into the local economy.

The system was actually copied from Macau which has done this numerous times, with varying amounts of money.

The fail was for your tin-foil hat explanation that the two events were somehow related. Also for giving credit (at all) to such an insignificant "movement".

[impactX]

OP: Asian studies graduate here at UBC

I think it's one of the more underated faculties in UBC. I like their upper level programs that are focused on south and east Asia especially after the Industrial Revolution. The aggrogance of the Chinese during the 1800s pretty much paved way for the next 100 years of chaos. In contrast, the size of Japan and the attitude of the Japanese were able to make modernization possible in the late 1800s and early 1900s and allow them to strike back during WWII. Simply fascinating.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[highfive]

The Japanese were ruthless during WWII. I had a family friend who told me that his family/parents were able to survive death because the sword used in the katana was becoming too dull to use. Believe it or not, but the Japanese should've been punished like the nazis.

About Genghis Kahn, wasn't there something about that every person out of 4 or 6 has some sort of blood related to him?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yeah, he fucked a lot.

[Senna4ever]

When Japanese soldiers killed people (men. women and children), they used all kinds of methods humanly imaginable, such as shooting, bayoneting, beheading, killing with bamboo spears, burying alive, beating to death, hanging, setting on fire, running over by trucks, and you name it.

watch "Men Behind the Sun" if u want see the gruesome acts carried out in unit 731.
You know it's bad when Nazi officers in China complain to Hitler about the atrocities committed by the Japanese army. Source: "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang.

[Senna4ever]

OP: Asian studies graduate here at UBC


:h5:

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

k im gonna play the devil's advocate here but, there have been way worse things done in human history.

rewind time back to the dark ages.

there's probably way worse things being done right now in some eastern european basement makeshift dungeon.

edit: i just had to throw this one in, i heard the japanese tortured spies by sliding a thin glass rod into the subject's dick, then using a mallet and hammering the dick. i'd let out all the secrets at the sight of the glass rod. gawd damn, fuck have the plans to the atomic bomb!!!

another thing that was kinda interesting in a weird way was the eunuchs in china. actually all eunuchs in general. so fucked up.

[GLOW]

edit: i just had to throw this one in, i heard the japanese tortured spies by sliding a thin glass rod into the subject's dick, then using a mallet and hammering the dick. i'd let out all the secrets at the sight of the glass rod. gawd damn, fuck have the plans to the atomic bomb!!!


I was watching a history channel where a US POW was explaining what happened in the camps. it was scorching hot outside and they were tied to a pole naked, then they had their testicles tied by a piece of string dipped on water. the sun would dry the string and as it dried the string would shrink, squeezing their testicles slowly. just hearing him explain it i was like:

:denied:

[JoshuaWong]

To this day, my Japanese friends pride themselves for a nation not being conquered by the west. It's unfortunate that Imperial Japan acted Nazi on East Asia back then.

Not all Japanese have pride over their country nowadays, most only care about the things they take interest in. Japanese national spirits is not the same as it was say 100 years ago although this can be a good thing.

Besides they did get conquered by the west (USA) and remains the only country to get nuked twice. Now they are majorly influence by the west, just as they were influence by China back in the days.

[twitchyzero]

i heard the japanese tortured spies by sliding a thin glass rod into the subject's dick, then using a mallet and hammering the dick. i'd let out all the secrets at the sight of the glass rod.

I was watching a history channel where a US POW was explaining what happened in the camps. it was scorching hot outside and they were tied to a pole naked, then they had their testicles tied by a piece of string dipped on water. the sun would dry the string and as it dried the string would shrink, squeezing their testicles slowly. just hearing him explain it i was like:



my balls went hiding after reading this:twirleye::crazy2::inoutugh:

[MG1]

Besides they did get conquered by the west (USA) and remains the only country to get nuked twice. Now they are majorly influence by the west, just as they were influence by China back in the days.

But, they are the only nation from Asia to kick caucasian ass.

Russo-Japanese War.

Which brings me back to the Mikasa story. The Battle of Tsushima. Historians still call it the greatest naval battle since Trafalgar.

Russian casualty was high. 21 out of 38 ships sunk, 7 captured, and 6 disarmed with 4500 servicemen killed and 6000 taken prisoner. The Japanese fleet lost 116 servicemen and three torpedo boats. The flagship, Mikasa, took over 30 direct hits only suffering minor damage.

Admiral Togo was in charge of the IJN fleet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tōgō_Heihachirō

The Flawless Victory: The Battle of Tsushima, Admiral Togo, and Likely the Most Effective Maneuver in Naval History - Hoffstrizz (http://www.hoffstrizz.com/2010/02/the-flawless-victory-the-battle-of-tsushima-admiral-togo-and-likely-the-most-effective-maneuver-in-n.html)


Some say the embarrasing ass-kicking by this tiny island nation called Japan (dumb Asians) led to the Russian Revolution.

This was not the only time the Japanese forces were underestimated by the west. Even though the Americans were warned many times over by experts of the threat from Japanese forces, most leaders thought the Japanese were not skilled. One commonly held belief was that the Japanese had no sense of balance, since they were carried on the backs of their mothers as children. "There is no way they could fly an airplane, let alone form any kind of attack on our naval bases."

[MG1]

As for the nuking of the two cities in Japan, the US had no choice in the matter. The war would just drag on and on. It was beleived that the Japanese would fight to the bitter end. Japan had already been bombarded day and night by US bombers. Dropping two nuclear bombs on civilians was the only way to send the message across.

As it turned out, it did end the war.......... giving the Americans the perfect place in which to have their forces stationed in the Far East to deal with Commies in later years.

Events that led the two countries (Japan and US) into war is interesting stuff, too. Oil embargo by US, limiting the building of warships, etc.

Revisiting the Battle of Tsushima, the complete annihilation of the Russian navy gave the Japanese a false sense of superiority. That, of course, led them to ultimate defeat.

[Grandmaster TSE]

awesome thread so far

wish we learned more about asian history in high school

[StylinRed]

As for the nuking of the two cities in Japan, the US had no choice in the matter. The war would just drag on and on. It was beleived that the Japanese would fight to the bitter end. Japan had already been bombarded day and night by US bombers. Dropping two nuclear bombs on civilians was the only way to send the message across.


the japanese were already trying to end the war with a truce prior to the nukes but that wasnt good enough for america

they didnt need 2 nukes on civilians at all.... hell they could have just dropped on on an island with no people and tell japan "next ones on tokyo"

they were already trying for a truce after that im sure they would have caved the US general simply wanted to annihilate all of them hell he wanted to keep nuking -_-


Brits & USA first to target civilians

nazis only bombed military bases encampments in the UK and the brits targeted civilians to goad the Nazis into attacking civilians

and usa with the nukes -_-

[MG1]

as for Pearl Harbour. It could have been a lot worse. There was supposed to be a thrid wave of attack. Although ships were damaged, the oil bunkers and important equipment were not destroyed. Junior officers pleaded with the admiral to continue the attacks, but the admiral decided against it. The carrier fleet was nowhere to be seen and that was one of the saving graces for the US. USS Enterprise!!

Here's some really weird shit.............. long read, but whatever.......

Pearl Harbor - Mother of All Conspiracies (http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html)

[MG1]

the japanese were already trying to end the war with a truce prior to the nukes but that wasnt good enough for america

Yes, the Japanese were really suffering at home. Their forces were non-existant and people were wishing for an end - no food, no supplies. "For the Emperor" - some Japanese did not know how to lose. A loss was worse than death itself. Being captured was also a big shame.

[Senna4ever]

the japanese were already trying to end the war with a truce prior to the nukes but that wasnt good enough for america

they didnt need 2 nukes on civilians at all.... hell they could have just dropped on on an island with no people and tell japan "next ones on tokyo"

they were already trying for a truce after that im sure they would have caved the US general simply wanted to annihilate all of them hell he wanted to keep nuking -_-


Brits & USA first to target civilians

nazis only bombed military bases encampments in the UK and the brits targeted civilians to goad the Nazis into attacking civilians

and usa with the nukes -_-
The Germans & Japanese had nuclear programs of their own IIRC, but were many months behind the USA. Can you imagine what Hitler would have done if they got an A-bomb first?

[JoshuaWong]

But, they are the only nation from Asia to kick caucasian ass.

Russo-Japanese War.

Which brings me back to the Mikasa story. The Battle of Tsushima. Historians still call it the greatest naval battle since Trafalgar.

Russian casualty was high. 21 out of 38 ships sunk, 7 captured, and 6 disarmed with 4500 servicemen killed and 6000 taken prisoner. The Japanese fleet lost 116 servicemen and three torpedo boats. The flagship, Mikasa, took over 30 direct hits only suffering minor damage.

Admiral Togo was in charge of the IJN fleet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tōgō_Heihachirō

The Flawless Victory: The Battle of Tsushima, Admiral Togo, and Likely the Most Effective Maneuver in Naval History - Hoffstrizz (http://www.hoffstrizz.com/2010/02/the-flawless-victory-the-battle-of-tsushima-admiral-togo-and-likely-the-most-effective-maneuver-in-n.html)


Some say the embarrasing ass-kicking by this tiny island nation called Japan (dumb Asians) led to the Russian Revolution.

This was not the only time the Japanese forces were underestimated by the west. Even though the Americans were warned many times over by experts of the threat from Japanese forces, most leaders thought the Japanese were not skilled. One commonly held belief was that the Japanese had no sense of balance, since they were carried on the backs of their mothers as children. "There is no way they could fly an airplane, let alone form any kind of attack on our naval bases."

China was more feared by the west in ancient time than the small island call Japan until the later period. Even in China's downfall period, it endured the invasion of 8 nation alliance, the taiping rebellion (which in itself had more casualty than the entire WW2 combined, fought itself (CCP vs KMT) + Japan on the side and pushed back the americans + UN in the korean war. It was China's own arrogance and belief in its superiority at the wrong time that led to their downfall. And it costed them dearly but unlike India, they still retain themselves in the end. China never really lost totally to any outsiders, even the Mongols that conquered China eventually lost out to China's sinicization.

There are reasons the west are so concern about the sleeping giant call China as Napolean once said "When China awake, the world will tremble"

[MG1]

Chiang Kai-shek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek)


Sun Yat-Sen

Interesting people.........

[MG1]

Would like to know more about the history of India.




On another topic, I play chess. Western, Chinese, and Japanese chess. I know chess got its beginnings in India. Anyone on RS play Indian chess?

[SkinnyPupp]

Chiang Kai-shek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek)


Sun Yat-Sen

Interesting people.........
Sun Yat-Sen is interesting because both the communists and KMT have their own versions of history for him, and both credit him for uniting China... Guess which one is correct ;)

[fetched]

Sun Yat-Sen is interesting because both the communists and KMT have their own versions of history for him, and both credit him for uniting China... Guess which one is correct ;)

Neither:speechless:

[SkinnyPupp]

Neither:speechless:
How so?

[Razor Ramon HG]

HD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzhJC0lQCXs

[fetched]

To put it in simple terms. None of the educational material published in China nor Taiwan contains 100% true versions of Sun Yat-Sen, like you said, it is completely different. How can you know for certain which one is correct? Communists and KMT are both known for their use of propaganda in their education material (I'm assuming this is where you are getting your information from).

[iwantaskyline]

As for the nuking of the two cities in Japan, the US had no choice in the matter. The war would just drag on and on. It was beleived that the Japanese would fight to the bitter end. Japan had already been bombarded day and night by US bombers. Dropping two nuclear bombs on civilians was the only way to send the message across.

As it turned out, it did end the war.......... giving the Americans the perfect place in which to have their forces stationed in the Far East to deal with Commies in later years.

Events that led the two countries (Japan and US) into war is interesting stuff, too. Oil embargo by US, limiting the building of warships, etc.

Revisiting the Battle of Tsushima, the complete annihilation of the Russian navy gave the Japanese a false sense of superiority. That, of course, led them to ultimate defeat.

The problem isn't the dropping of the nukes its the fact that they had to drop the second one. The 1st nuke was enough for Japan to surrender and there are reports that after the 1st one Japan was ready to surrender.

[SkinnyPupp]

To put it in simple terms. None of the educational material published in China nor Taiwan contains 100% true versions of Sun Yat-Sen, like you said, it is completely different. How can you know for certain which one is correct? Communists and KMT are both known for their use of propaganda in their education material (I'm assuming this is where you are getting your information from).
No I was thinking more of the outsiders' perspective :)

[fetched]

The problem isn't the dropping of the nukes its the fact that they had to drop the second one. The 1st nuke was enough for Japan to surrender and there are reports that after the 1st one Japan was ready to surrender.

It's a war. No treaty No stop.

[will068]

Not all Japanese have pride over their country nowadays, most only care about the things they take interest in. Japanese national spirits is not the same as it was say 100 years ago although this can be a good thing.

Besides they did get conquered by the west (USA) and remains the only country to get nuked twice. Now they are majorly influence by the west, just as they were influence by China back in the days.

They lost the war. But none of their lands became western territory.

[will068]

I love the WWII discussions.

Axis of Powers. Nazi Germany was supposed to have Europe, Mussolini's Italy was supposed to have Africa, and Japan was supposed to have Asia.

I remember my grand parents telling me that Japan had planned the invasion decades before. In the Philippines, my grandparent's neighborhoods had some Japanese immigrants years before the war. When the invasion started, these "neighbors" were now dressed as soldier with guns and bayonets.

My Paternal Grandmother had to marry my Grandfather at 15 years old or else she would be shipped to the Soldier Camps to be a "comfort woman". Literally, the soldiers would run a train on the women daily.

My Maternal Grandmother had to carry my oldest aunt around to show that she was a mother, or else she would be raped by the soldiers as well. Also, the locals would hide in the forests and live there to hide from the Japanese.

Good thing the Americans finally joined the war. To this day, I'm somewhat in support of the American Military industrial complex and their foreign policies to a certain extent. I'd rather have them as a superpower than Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, USSR, or present day Communist China :heckno:

[SkinnyPupp]

The only WW2 story I heard from my wife's side of the family is how her grandmother would have to dress like a boy before going out. And food was so scarce, vendors were selling rats.

Interestingly, Sunday night horse racing, which is ubiquitous in Hong Kong now, was introduced by the Japanese during their occupation here.

[iwantaskyline]

I love the WWII discussions.

Axis of Powers. Nazi Germany was supposed to have Europe, Mussolini's Italy was supposed to have Africa, and Japan was supposed to have Asia.

I remember my grand parents telling me that Japan had planned the invasion decades before. In the Philippines, my grandparent's neighborhoods had some Japanese immigrants years before the war. When the invasion started, these "neighbors" were now dressed as soldier with guns and bayonets.

My Paternal Grandmother had to marry my Grandfather at 15 years old or else she would be shipped to the Soldier Camps to be a "comfort woman". Literally, the soldiers would run a train on the women daily.

My Maternal Grandmother had to carry my oldest aunt around to show that she was a mother, or else she would be raped by the soldiers as well. Also, the locals would hide in the forests and live there to hide from the Japanese.

Good thing the Americans finally joined the war. To this day, I'm somewhat in support of the American Military industrial complex and their foreign policies to a certain extent. I'd rather have them as a superpower than Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, USSR, or present day Communist China :heckno:

The U.S.A is just as bad. I'll you an example: The Vietnam war. They dropped more bombs on Vietnam then all the bombs used in the entire WW2 by all nations combined, that includes the two nukes. They used biochemical warfare which by estimates has killed 500,000 during the war and has affected over 400,000 people today in Vietnam. See Agent Orange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange)

[SkinnyPupp]

The heavy bombing in vietnam was an attempt to prevent ground fighting, which is obviously much worse. However it didn't work, and we all know what happened after that.

[roastpuff]

A friend's grandmother is on the front page of Reddit, talking about her experience in WW2 in the Philippines. Her grandson is typing up her comments.

When I was 14, half my family was executed while I escaped into a cornfield. I am now 81. AMA : IAmA (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/nupjo/when_i_was_14_half_my_family_was_executed_while_i/?limit=500)

[highfive]

The U.S.A is just as bad. I'll you an example: The Vietnam war. They dropped more bombs on Vietnam then all the bombs used in the entire WW2 by all nations combined, that includes the two nukes. They used biochemical warfare which by estimates has killed 500,000 during the war and has affected over 400,000 people today in Vietnam. See Agent Orange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange)

How can you compare USA to the Nazis, Imperial Japanese, or USSR?

USA didn't have concentration camps that mechanically killed a specific type of ppl because of who they are. They did not kill random ppl or beheaded any POW, or even take women from the streets and used them as comfort wives. Even USSR has their shit in raping German women when they entered Berlin.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

How can you compare USA to the Nazis, Imperial Japanese, or USSR?

USA didn't have concentration camps that mechanically killed a specific type of ppl because of who they are. They did not kill random ppl or beheaded any POW, or even take women from the streets and used them as comfort wives. Even USSR has their shit in raping German women when they entered Berlin.

lol c'mon man. don't be so naive.

they did kill people for who they are, vietnamese, kids women and men.
they did kill random people and kill POWs. they killed people for fun.
they did a lot of things for fun in vietnam.
there was tons of raping and pillaging done by americans in vietnam.

[Valour]

This here is pure Alabama black snake. But it ain't too goddam beaucoup!
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[LiquidTurbo]

How can you compare USA to the Nazis, Imperial Japanese, or USSR?

USA didn't have concentration camps that mechanically killed a specific type of ppl because of who they are. They did not kill random ppl or beheaded any POW, or even take women from the streets and used them as comfort wives. Even USSR has their shit in raping German women when they entered Berlin.

Point of view.

[PavelGTR]

Threads like these are pretty cool. I have some WW2 history from my family I could post but its not Asian so I'll refrain from doing that. Unless you guys want me to.

[MG1]

Here's another weird one.........

Japanese American Regiment in Europe - the most highly decorated. While their families were in internment camps......

The unit became the most highly–decorated regiment in the history of the United States armed forces, including 21 Medal of Honor recipients.


442nd Infantry Regiment (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Regimental_Combat_Team)


The Japanese American regiment was considered expendable and like the many Canadian combat groups on D-Day, were sent on suicide missions.

[highfive]

lol c'mon man. don't be so naive.

they did kill people for who they are, vietnamese, kids women and men.
they did kill random people and kill POWs. they killed people for fun.
they did a lot of things for fun in vietnam.
there was tons of raping and pillaging done by americans in vietnam.

Yes, I agree, Americans has done all that. Even in the recent gulf war, they had a bunch of headlines from that lesbian soldier and the naked arab guys to Guantanamo bay.

But what I was trying to say is that all those were not part of the USA political agenda. It was not an order from the government itself. Whereas, it was a political agenda for the Nazis to kill off Jews, it was part of the government decision making to provide comfort wives for the Japanese soldiers. There isn't a clean war out there.

[SkinnyPupp]

lol c'mon man. don't be so naive.

they did kill people for who they are, vietnamese, kids women and men.
they did kill random people and kill POWs. they killed people for fun.
they did a lot of things for fun in vietnam.
there was tons of raping and pillaging done by americans in vietnam.

You're confusing things done by Americans with things done by America
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

There isn't a clean war out there.

no shit, war isn't supposed to be clean. it's war. ya know, where you fuckin kill people.

You're confusing things done by Americans with things done by America
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

america is just land.

the people represent the nation, this goes for all nations.

[iwantaskyline]

Yes, I agree, Americans has done all that. Even in the recent gulf war, they had a bunch of headlines from that lesbian soldier and the naked arab guys to Guantanamo bay.

But what I was trying to say is that all those were not part of the USA political agenda. It was not an order from the government itself. Whereas, it was a political agenda for the Nazis to kill off Jews, it was part of the government decision making to provide comfort wives for the Japanese soldiers. There isn't a clean war out there.

Iraqi war. Vietnam war. Look up the death totals for civilians in these wars. To me there is no difference between killing 1000 people by a bomb versus sending 1000 people into a gas chamber to die. 400,000 vietnamese civilians died from Agent Orange alone. Not soldiers, civilians.

[SkinnyPupp]

the people represent the nation, this goes for all nations.
Umm, no.

A few Americans went crazy and took advantage of their position. Compare this to the Japanese in China and Hong Kong, who were led into RAPE BATTLE as part of their tactics of war.

Big difference.

[Vansterdam]

Asian Pride - Got Rice? - YouTube

this has got to fit in somewhere :troll:

[MG1]

^it most certainly does........... mixed chicks, FTW.

Anyway, back to the war thing. Doesn't matter what country, race, religion, creed, etc., war gives people the excuse to do whatever they want. Most decent people would never think of doing those kinds of things to another human being. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, for example........ there were a lot of people who did not agree with what was going on, but what could you do? Those two nations were caught up in a frenzy. If you spoke out against any of it, you were as good as dead, along with your family. Treason/traitor/whathaveyou. Plus, a lot of civilians were unaware of what was going on. All they heard were how well their fathers, brothers, and sons were doing - fighting for their country, blah, blah, blah........ war is evil and brings out the worst in people.

I was hoping this thread would become more than just a "who did what to who". There's more to history than just war. Vansterdamn's contribution is kind of cool, because it touches on cultures influencing/affecting other cultures.

Someone pointed out the artwork of a nation changing as it was conquered by other nations/peoples.

In Japan, there was a period of time where Chinese culture had a big impact on its people's way of life. Everything Chinese was cool and trendy. There were even cities modeled after those in China. This was not via any conquering of Japan. It was something the emperor and people in power seemed to fancy at the time. I think they termed it the "Heian" period. This was the period where Buddhism took foothold in Japan.

Also, this period is where the Japanese developed the kana (written language), spurring the literature types in Japan to flourish.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

the problem is most people don't know anything about asian history except what happened in the past 100 years, which i don't even consider history lol.

if someone has experienced it, and is still alive today, it's not even close to history yet.

if you limit the discussion to at least a few hundred years ago. or at least before 1800, then you'll filter everyone out that has no idea what they're talking about. or it will at least force them to wiki every topic brought up in this thread lol!

[Senna4ever]

After my grandparents passed away, I found a big stack of LIFE Magazines from the 1940's to the 1960's in their basement, and since I'm the photographer in the family, I got to keep them! There was a copy of the December 22, 1941 issue in the pile, and as I was reading through it, I came across this article! Can you imagine such an article being published now? Somehow, I don't think as article like, "How to tell between a Taliban terrorist and a Sikh man," will make it past the editor's desk.

Click for larger image to read the text.

The cover. Time Magazine had an almost identical photo a week after 9/11.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Senna4ever/Forum%20crap/LIFE_Cover_Dec_22_1941.jpg

The article. Remember, this is just after the Pearl Harbour attack.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Senna4ever/Forum%20crap/JC_LIFE.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Senna4ever/Forum%20crap/JC_LIFE_02.jpg

[SkinnyPupp]

Those were the times man... You do see similar things, but not from 'mainstream' media as much

I'd love to dig through those magazines just for the ads!