[dinosaur]

Get yourself a new free crack pipe!!

Global BC | Free crack pipes now distributed in Vancouver as part of health strategy (http://www.globaltvbc.com/free+crack+pipes+now+distributed+in+vancouver+as+p art+of+health+strategy/6442550368/story.html)

Thanks B.C.!!

:rolleyes:

[kwy]

I support this, just like I support supervised injection sites. If the problem of illicit drug use cannot be eliminated, it is unethical to simply ignore it. I wrote a paper on SIS and insite. Before I read the studies and looked at the research I thought the same, but now I'm in support of harm reduction initiatives like this.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[tool001]

was watching a show (maybe news) metioned pilot program to provide free alch. to folks from dwtn east side. made sense as gets them off drinking mouthwash etc. .. as they end up in hospitals after and take up beds (more money spent)

but still would like to see more programs where funding goes to getting these people working and off the street.

[murd0c]

I've never got how people that drink so much mouth wash have such bad teeth :troll:

[bloodmack]

cause they dont gurgle it in their mouths they just swallow (like your mom) :troll:

[Manic!]

Maybe they can offer all those street racers a place to race? Like a safe injection site but for car racing.

[belka]

Maybe they can offer all those street racers a place to race? Like a safe injection site but for car racing.

How about E. Hastings?

[Excelsis]

oh look, there goes tax money

[Nanaki]

Honestly this is another slap in the face. Here are people leeching off the system with no inclination to get off drugs (the vast majority at least). We keep giving them the tools to continue? My dad is diabetic and he needs needles to inject insulin daily. It was not his choice to do this and guess what, he pays for them. Yes medical takes a large portion of the cost but he pays for what he needs to survive. Clearly not a junkie.

I also understand peoples willingness to help others who cannot help themselves, the priorities seem a bit skewed.....

[dinosaur]

Ya, I heard about the alcohol thing too.

I think they are spending money in the wrong places. Like tool001 (ps-best band ever) said, there needs to be a move to get people off the streets and off drugs.

Shit like this frustrates me as normal everyday working people seem to always be getting the ass-end of stuff. Just after they talked about this on the news, the announce that MSP premiums are going up! wtf?! I don't get drugs that keep me healthy for free so why should my tax dollars go towards paying for crack pipes for crack heads?!

People can sit an quote me stats about SIS, insite, free alcohol, free needles, etc all helping the DTES but really? I think it is all bullshit. I am tired of coddling and sympathizing with people who have clearly made the decision to fuck their lives up.

[murd0c]

cause they dont gurgle it in their mouths they just swallow (like your mom) :troll:

I wish I knew my mom :alone:

[Excelsis]

even if you ended up homeless somehow you can always change your life around

collect some money by begging first, save enough, buy some okay clothes from value village, go to a library and print a resume, or even try and get yourself funded from a wealthier man and promise him to refund his money or whatever when you get a job.. I'd certainly do it if i find anyone decent to have such a goal in mind. Too bad they turned to drugs

[Matlock]

Some people will disagree with me and think that I am a cruel and disgusting person, but can we just kill them all?

[PJ]

but still would like to see more programs where funding goes to getting these people working and off the street.

The problem here is most of them can't handle working even if the job presented itself. And even if they do manage to work a minimum wage job, how long until they can get back "on their feet?" It would have to be quite the package deal, including rehab, food, shelter and all.

Like tool001 (ps-best band ever)

A girl who listens to Tool? Marry me. :fullofwin:

[vanessabee24]

where's our free zig zag papers and bongs [=

[Razor Ramon HG]

Saw something on the news how a study and trial proved that an effective way to change the homeless and their life was to provide them with sufficient shelter, e.g. their own home. The government gave this dude an apartment and judging from the clip, he has done a lot for himself since then to become a part of society again.
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[Hondaracer]

How about give me a free apartment?

Someone who works, pays taxes, employes people, etc...

Mandatory drug tests for people on welfare as well
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[dinamix]

Free hookers for sex addicts!
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[dinosaur]

Free money for Gambling addicts!!

seriously...where does it stop?

[Excelsis]

i know this girl that tries to give these people education and turn their lives the other way around, and that's her job too

but srsly, paying somebody to take more drugs? ...

[stewie]

Some people will disagree with me and think that I am a cruel and disgusting person, but can we just kill them all?

i agree with you, it may sound cruel and mean...but who cares...they're scabs of society, they dont contribute 1 bit, yet we keep giving them the supplies needed to shoot up or get high and drunk...

make them do something at least...tell the safe injection site that if a user wants a free clean needle, take a plastic bag, and walk down the street picking up the garbage or sweeping the streets down, and after 2-3 hours of some productive work, give the junkie what he wants.

handing out free crack pipes is just disgusting to me...

[Excelsis]

speaking of needles..

how's your roid session going stewie :troll:

[unit]

Free hookers for sex addicts!
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

they might have aids.
free virgins for sex addicts.

[kwy]

The health care costs of drug users would far exceed the cost of free pipes. It's the same thing with IDUs..a kit from InSite costs $1. The facility costs less than a million/year to run, IIRC. It's been proven by multiple studies that it in fact saves us taxpayers money. Not only has InSite treated countless ODs on site, it has saved lives. Free needles and syringes that are clean are beneficial to both users and us...it lowers the number of contaminated needles found on the street and can lower the rate of transmission of blood borne diseases. I dug though dozens of studies on this harm reduction initiative when I was writing my paper, and I don't remember there being any negative repercussions of an injection site. It has done nothing but good. Injection sites have been open in Europe for decades. I'm glad Vancouver is taking the progressive route. Now, there's also talk of opening SIS in Quebec and Toronto, where open drug use is also rampant in areas.
I'm using this as an example, but when the studies crank out the numbers and stats on the effects of free crack pipes, I think it'll mirror it pretty closely.
Marginalized people and illicit drug users aren't "scum" or inhuman. Sure, a small number of them got where they are simply because of bad choices. However, the vast majority have had a rough family history, childhood abuse, and mental illness. They are people like you and I that have just fallen on bad times and tough circumstances. They need to be helped, not removed or eliminated.
Drug addiction isn't all mental. You don't just drop it, just like you don't drop smoking in one day. It's a physiological addiction just as much as a psychological addiction. Your body needs it to function. It takes time and support to kick it.

It seems a lot of people ITT are against free crack pipes. You're perfectly free to have your opinion, but if you can't back it up then it means nothing.
If you look at the research and still disagree with me, then come at me bro.

[Excelsis]

come at me bro.


okay, where do you live?

[winson604]

Some people will disagree with me and think that I am a cruel and disgusting person, but can we just kill them all?

It's ok I think that way sometimes too when I have those devil on one shoulder and angel on other moments. On one side I think doing some of these things makes sense but on the other hand I think we can have some free drugs and boos days and lure them all to a location and unleash like nerve gas on them all or something. :fuckyea:

[Ronin]

Where do you draw the line?

I'm addicted to laziness. Is the government going to provide me with money while I sit on my ass?

[Hondaracer]

I kinda want to just go get a free pipe and a couple syringes just because I'm
Entitled to them
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[dinosaur]

The health care costs of drug users would far exceed the cost of free pipes.

Look dude, I am super stoked for ya that you probably got an 'A' on you social studies 10 paper you wrote, but the last time I checked, handing out crack pipes to crackheads ain't "curing" them from their addiction.

You first sentence says it all. What are the health care cost of aiding drug users? Handing them a crack pipe does not take them outta the system....it prolongs it. How can you say that funding crack pipes are going to help addicts stop using and thus cutting the cost of an addict in the health care system?

Also, really excited that SISs have prevent overdose deaths....we need more addicts that are alive and rockin it out.

I get tired of all this hug-a-tree, save a baby whale bullshit attitude that some people throw at the DTES. You see on the news that the gov't is cutting funding for schools, canceling programs for the physically disabled, and seniors living in poverty, all the while funding addicts who have a fucking choice to use.

[Slifer]

Where do you draw the line?

I'm addicted to laziness. Is the government going to provide me with money while I sit on my ass?

They do actually, its called welfare.

[Nanaki]

Not only has InSite treated countless ODs on site, it has saved lives.

ah it sounds so cruel but fuck...why bother saving them :ilied:

I'm not willing to help anyone who's not willing to help themselves.

[kwy]

Look dude, I am super stoked for ya that you probably got an 'A' on you social studies 10 paper you wrote, but the last time I checked, handing out crack pipes to crackheads ain't "curing" them from their addiction.

You first sentence says it all. What are the health care cost of aiding drug users? Handing them a crack pipe does not take them outta the system....it prolongs it. How can you say that funding crack pipes are going to help addicts stop using and thus cutting the cost of an addict in the health care system?

Also, really excited that SISs have prevent overdose deaths....we need more addicts that are alive and rockin it out.

I get tired of all this hug-a-tree, save a baby whale bullshit attitude that some people throw at the DTES. You see on the news that the gov't is cutting funding for schools, canceling programs for the physically disabled, and seniors living in poverty, all the while funding addicts who have a fucking choice to use.

First off, it was a university paper, did you go there?

No, crack pipes and needles won't solve the issue. But not doing anything will make it worse. Drug use will NEVER be eliminated. We don't live in a fucking fairy tale. It's unrealistic. It will never be completely gone, but addressing the related issues is a good start.

As far as InSite, it's been around since 2003 and all studies point to the facility saving YOUR tax dollars that would have otherwise been spent in the health care system. I don't see free crack pipes having much of a different effect.

from the article:

“What this boils down to is it’s about disease prevention,” said Beutel. “It’s about preventing more communicable diseases which land these people in hospital on a frequent basis and clogs up emergency rooms.”

I'd rather they spend 60K on a harm reduction plan than way more than that for the hospital costs of addicts, which will be much higher.

[Excelsis]

actually if no one distributes drugs to these people then they'd either die or they'd want to change for the better

just like this guy, came from absolutely nothing, no parents, no support, but eventually turned into being something great

watch the first minute of the video and you'll understand..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8JntuClGOo

maybe this should be played on a big tv screen in downtown so all the homeless people can see lol

[Mr.Money]

free virgins for sex addicts.



gross,who want's their clean white bed sheets stained and someone with no sex experience? :suspicious:

[quasi]

actually if no one distributes drugs to these people then they'd either die or they'd want to change for the better

just like this guy, came from absolutely nothing, no parents, no support, but eventually turned into being something great

watch the first minute of the video and you'll understand..

Kai Greene Inspirational - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8JntuClGOo)

maybe this should be played on a big tv screen in downtown so all the homeless people can see lol

I liked the part about if you don't think you can do it you won't. I had a real hard week today and there has been more then one time I've said I've said to myself I can't do this. I'm going in with swagger tomorrow and doing it, get the fuck out the way.

[dinosaur]

The facility costs less than a million/year to run, IIRC.


2010-2011 operation budget was $2,969,440.

First off, it was a university paper, did you go there?

Yes, and believe it or not, ONE of my degreeS was in Sociology

I also don't believe that we should treat drug-use as a disease. Cancer is a disease. Diabetes is a disease. It is a slap in the face to those suffering from actually diseases.

[wstce92]

Arguing things like Insite is always a fruitless affair.
Supporters will always throw in your face that Insite saves lives, and based on some faux moral high ground bullshit you will never be able to talk to them.
They're totally missing the point. No shit they save lives. If you had a member of the Green Lantern corp sit in every car, then we'd have no accidents. You don't need studies to determine that. It's simple logic.
The point is that they made a CHOICE to do something illegal and detrimental to their lives.
So why is the government condoning this blatant disregard for the law?
Drugs carry consequences, and surprise surprise, one of them is death.
If you're going to do something, you should be prepared to handle the possible consequences of your actions.

I admit that I'm a heartless dbag. I truly believe that these drug addicts who contribute nothing to society don't deserve to live.

There are kids all over our province (through no fault of their own) who have life threatening diseases, who are born into poor families who can't even afford lunches for them at school.
Most of them rely a lot on donations; be it blood, time, food, money, presents during Christmas time.

With all that going on, why the fuck are we spending money giving crack pipes to homeless people.

[kwy]

@dino

Research has also shown that InSite has increased client participation in detox programs and addiction counseling. Their budget has grown since '03, but InSite still continues to save taxpayer dollars. It seems logical that their budget would grow as studies prove the facility's effectiveness.

Drug use isn't a disease. Drug addiction is. It's a physiological addiction, their bodies depend on a substance or substances. Without it, they can't function or simply die, and we've seen this happen.

[Drow]

kinda off topic here but...

anyone notice that these crackheads all have similar physical and personality attributes?

i notice most of them have a really fucked up jaw / mouth and its always physically recognizable, and personality wise... they love to go up to random strangers and talk to them with the same happy go lucky attitude

[kwy]

Arguing things like Insite is always a fruitless affair.
Supporters will always throw in your face that Insite saves lives, and based on some faux moral high ground bullshit you will never be able to talk to them.
They're totally missing the point. No shit they save lives. If you had a member of the Green Lantern corp sit in every car, then we'd have no accidents. You don't need studies to determine that. It's simple logic.
The point is that they made a CHOICE to do something illegal and detrimental to their lives.
So why is the government condoning this blatant disregard for the law?
Drugs carry consequences, and surprise surprise, one of them is death.
If you're going to do something, you should be prepared to handle the possible consequences of your actions.

I admit that I'm a heartless dbag. I truly believe that these drug addicts who contribute nothing to society don't deserve to live.

There are kids all over our province (through no fault of their own) who have life threatening diseases, who are born into poor families who can't even afford lunches for them at school.
Most of them rely a lot on donations; be it blood, time, food, money, presents during Christmas time.

With all that going on, why the fuck are we spending money giving crack pipes to homeless people.

It isn't always a choice. A high percentage of the marginalized population of the DTES have mental illness(es). Like I said, many suffered from family issues and abuse at a young age. You can't pull out a blanket statement and say that everyone has chosen drug addiction.

It's the same deal with prostitutes, for example. You should see the stats..it's alarming how the majority of them were sexually abused by family members as children, among other numbers. No one grows up wanting to be a drug addict or hooker.

[wstce92]

@dino

Research has also shown that InSite has increased client participation in detox programs and addiction counseling. Their budget has grown since '03, but InSite still continues to save taxpayer dollars. It seems logical that their budget would grow as studies prove the facility's effectiveness.

Drug use isn't a disease. Drug addiction is. It's a physiological addiction, their bodies depend on a substance or substances. Without it, they can't function or simply die, and we've seen this happen.

From my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, the Detox portion of Insite is Onsite.
IMO, Insite is a fucking waste of money and any proceeds towards Insite should be given to Onsite.

Ignoring the fact I want them to die, I'll accept your statement on the disease of Drug Addiction. You know what else is? As Dino mentioned earlier, Gambling Addiction. And whereas Gambling Addiction might not lead to death (even though suicides have been documented), Gambling Addiction, IMO leads to MUCH more serious issues. Do you know why? Because most people who have a gambling addiction are contributing members of society with families. Hence the debt incurred destroys not only themselves, but their families. These people have something to lose, and they lose it. Drug Addicts? They start and end on the street. So why don't we hand out free cheques to gamblers?

[wstce92]

It isn't always a choice. A high percentage of the marginalized population of the DTES have mental illness(es). Like I said, many suffered from family issues and abuse at a young age. You can't pull out a blanket statement and say that everyone has chosen drug addiction.

It's the same deal with prostitutes, for example. You should see the stats..it's alarming how the majority of them were sexually abused by family members as children, among other numbers. No one grows up wanting to be a drug addict or hooker.

No one said it's easy.
Are all kids who get sexually abused prostitutes?
Are all people with mental illnesses drug addicts?
No.
It's a choice, simple as that. There is no magical gun that follows certain people around forcing them into things.
Will sexual abuse make it easier for someone to go into prostitution?
Probably.
But at the end of the day, it's still a choice.
If mental illness is a big factor in drug use, then we should be putting money into mental illness. Not giving out free crack pipes and places to shoot up.

Will there ever be a perfect system for helping individuals with mental illness or for preventing young girls from being molested? No.
But that's life.
Shit sucks.
But at the end of the day, we all make decisions.
It doesn't matter if its an easy, unconscious decision, or a hard, concious one. It's still a decision.
Life isn't fair, and if you've been dealt the short end, then that's what you need to deal with.
The Government should NOT be condoning the breaking of laws. Period.

Edit: your same logic can be applied to Gamblers. Most gamblers also have a colored upbringing. So why aren't we giving them money?
Edit: victims are only victims because people around them paint them with that brush. Saying someone is unable to make a good choice because they're a victim to something is really knocking them down.

[Culture_Vulture]

I wish I knew my mom :alone:
sad story, bro
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSO7CmW438Z66JeeNt21-ezcsIAjvU73knstQlebIRhgSipAJjGznPqrhLG

[TheKingdom2000]

I support this.

- clean pipes = no unwanted diseases or infections = these junkies don't have to go through our messed up health care system costing us money

- junkies are gonna get high regardless

- "we should put more into anti addiction programs" - no we shouldn't. do you honestly think these programs help a significant portion of the people that attend them? I don't know about crack, but my friend went to a anti smoking one for a month.. guess what it didn't do anything
-- we have enough of these free programs, don't need anymore imo.

- "govt. is cutting back on public programs etc..." umm spending $10k on some needles isn't going to change that. The reason the govt is cutting back on shit is because we don't have money. It has nothing to do with this insignificant program (monetary wise) [this is a completely different issue]

as far as I see it everyone society has bums/mental illness/hookers/druggies. Sometimes you just gotta put money into them. You might not get a return of investment, but I see it as a charity expense. Sometimes you just gotta dump money into shit. And at least this is helping them.

[Death2Theft]

Still cheaper to give a crackpipe than crack.

[kwy]

Which, by the way, is something that has been considered. Actually, a bunch of older cops I've met support the idea as well. Not saying I support it, just putting it out there.

[unit]

gross,who want's their clean white bed sheets stained and someone with no sex experience? :suspicious:

my bed sheets are red i am prepared.

[Death2Theft]

Now that I think about it... wtf? I can see needle exchange to prevent sti's but.... wtf does a pipe help with aside from smoking a rock?

[Excelsis]

@dino
Drug use isn't a disease. Drug addiction is. It's a physiological addiction, their bodies depend on a substance or substances. Without it, they can't function or simply die, and we've seen this happen.

No one tells these people to go for drugs, hell i'm guessing eating healthier would be much cheaper than getting on crack/cocaine whatever the hell they're doing..


It isn't always a choice. A high percentage of the marginalized population of the DTES have mental illness(es). Like I said, many suffered from family issues and abuse at a young age. You can't pull out a blanket statement and say that everyone has chosen drug addiction.

It's the same deal with prostitutes, for example. You should see the stats..it's alarming how the majority of them were sexually abused by family members as children, among other numbers. No one grows up wanting to be a drug addict or hooker.

They become drug addicts to live in their own mental reality because life is scary. Well get used to it, if you don't do anything to save your own life then you will remain knocked down and life is going to keep trampling on you

[dinosaur]

Now that I think about it... wtf? I can see needle exchange to prevent sti's but.... wtf does a pipe help with aside from smoking a rock?

I think this is a major point to why I am so frustrated with this whole thing.

I am not a fan of InSite, BUT the argument can be made that it aids in the prevention of spreading diseases (like you pointed out)....but a crack pipe?! I don't get it.

[Gridlock]

OK...I feel that I can finally introduce the 'Gridlock Plan for the DTES' tm.

Fucking level it.

Stay tuned, cause it gets better.

We have ourselves a little auction. We take all these guys for a walk down Hastings and the side streets and just bid off the building rights, building by building. City doesn't own it to sell to you? No worries. No one in their right mind is going to deny the check that you are now entitled to write for the building of Vancouver's newest up and coming neighborhood.

Here's the best part. Twenty, thats 20% of every check goes into a big fucking hippie fund. We use that to build social housing. Anywhere but the DTES. Sprinkled like rain through the entire Lower Mainland is a little social housing project house. It's not Vancouver's problem alone to deal with. Never was.

Now that we've financed it-without a single taxpayer dollar I might add, oh and created the biggest boon in BC's economy in recent years...hey Christy, imagine what you could do with 1% unemployment for 3 years? We've gotten to the heart of the problem:

Misery begets misery.

How the royal fuck do you expect drug addicts and hookers and alcoholics to pull their shit together when they are surrounded by the waste of human civilization?

You can't! Sample dialogue: "I may use crack, but look at thaat guy! He's fucked up. I'm nowhere near as bad as him"

You are what you eat folks. If you hang around fucking trash all day, guess what...chances are you're trash. If you hang around with the business elite, chances are its gonna rub off as well.

The real estate possibilities in the DTES are endless. Any chance I get, I go down there to look at what could be built. That building a few weeks ago with the 850 sq.ft apartments? I stood in front of that 2 years ago for an hour dividing and sub-dividing it into condos. I never thought to just build them as closets, but whatevs..different visions, right?

The point is, it would make New York's SoHo look like SoWhat?

Once you break up that huge group of people, you can start to attack the problems. Why do we poor millions of dollars into that neighborhood? Because its an insurmountable fucking task, that's why. We have dickless politicians polish up a pipe for crack heads, and an indoor alley for heroine addicts and think they are done until the next election cycle. There is nothing you can do when its xx number of homeless, another xx living in poverty and another god knows how many drug addicts all piled up on top of each other.

No wonder! Ever tried to treat a patient that has cancer, and heart disease and lost kidney function, and has Aids and has no money so he can't even eat properly? Where do you start? You can't.

Get them into smaller groups. Now we can have services that can reach our problem people. We can house 30 people. We can feed 30 people.

Yeah. It gets ugly. The DTES is going to ignite in riots. Politicians may not win elections. But it solves the problem.

That word, is gentrify.

[adambomb]

I also support the gentrification of the Downtown Eastside.

:h5:

[Gridlock]

@dino

Research has also shown that InSite has increased client participation in detox programs and addiction counseling. Their budget has grown since '03, but InSite still continues to save taxpayer dollars. It seems logical that their budget would grow as studies prove the facility's effectiveness.

Drug use isn't a disease. Drug addiction is. It's a physiological addiction, their bodies depend on a substance or substances. Without it, they can't function or simply die, and we've seen this happen.

This, I agree with-but mostly out of default. I see my options are: drugs are a legal problem, or drug addiction is a disease. I'd rather see it dealt with as a disease than a legal matter. That said, I'm still not convinced on the kiddie gloves that get used as soon as we say, "disease".

And I don't want the rest of their issues to get "disease-washed" such as all the other legal issues that surround how to pay for the addiction. And any step down the legal ladder for drug addicts should be equally matched by stiffer penalties for drug dealing.

[stewie]

id rather see someone start mixing rat poison or some other powdered substance laced into cocaine or heroin and let these junkies shoot up and die, solves 2 problems in my mind....1 less junkie to suck up health care, and 1 less junkie to have to give a needle or a pipe to....and not to mention 1 less junkie to break into your car while your out for dinner downtown..

[1exotic]

Some people will disagree with me and think that I am a cruel and disgusting person, but can we just kill them all?

I agree sir.

[Ikkaku]

It's great that the city cares for these people, but when you're providing such services to them, eventually more and more of the users will head over here. What happens then? the amount of homeless and/or addicts will slowly decrease around the country and it will seemingly have less priority as a country wide issue.

This should be a country wide initiative as opposed to having it all solely in Vancouver.

Yes I know this won't have such a profound impact that the world will be beautiful once again, but I am just not a fan of Vancouver always being the one who tests these programs, while as the rest of the country sits back with no impact whether it succeeds or fails.

[Excelsis]

let's quit our jobs go on the street and let the government give us free crack pipes :drunk:
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[Shorn]

I think this is a major point to why I am so frustrated with this whole thing.

I am not a fan of InSite, BUT the argument can be made that it aids in the prevention of spreading diseases (like you pointed out)....but a crack pipe?! I don't get it.

what don't you get about clean crack pipes preventing disease? crackheads.. not sharing pipes? cause they're free?

i don't support crackheads just as much as you do, but fact is there will ALWAYS be drug users. fact two is that they cost a LOT more money to fix up if they contract diseases through the sharing of crack pipes, as opposed to the cost of giving out free pipes.

this is canada. those crackheads may be useless to society but they are still a citizen of our country and the government has a responsibility to help them AS WELL AS try and limit our expenditure on them. ie cutting down on their hospital visits through a cheaper harm reduction plan. this is what separates us from third world countries.

and for the people comparing this with gambling addicts - how does that even compare? gambling addicts don't pose nearly as large of an economical burden to SOCIETY, sure they may pose as one to themselves and their family when they gamble all their money away, but not nearly as much to taxpayers as crackheads going to the hospital. if anything they contribute to our economy by providing casinos with revenue. i'll have to look it up but i'm PRETTY sure some of that revenue goes back to the city as well.

[Gridlock]

I guess the idea makes sense...but here's why it annoys me.

It's not just free crack pipes. It's free patches for smokers. It's free housing for the poor, and the fact that people will continuously protest and yell and scream if you don't build more free housing. It's the fact that up until the last election, the Federal liberals were wanting free child care. I hope they learned their lesson on that one.

I get that we are more socialist than the US, but do we need to emulate europe? Because that seems to be working out wonderfully for them.

I want less people with their hands out to government, not more. I fully believe in universal health, as its something that everyone needs and everyone should have access to. I may pay for someone's cat scan, but eventually, I'll have a heart attack and it will even out. It will never even out for me here. I'm never going to go and claim my free crack pipe.

It is so frustrating to see us creating more people dependent on hand outs.

[dinosaur]

what don't you get about clean crack pipes preventing disease? crackheads.. not sharing pipes? cause they're free?


Crack isn't an intravenous drug and therefore, one would think the spread of disease is low. Do I care if they pass the herp around? :heckno:

Also, what about the side effects of crack? heart-attack, seizures, respiratory diseases, skin sores, etc...what is the cost of treating that? How is providing crack pipes helping that aspect?

You know what would save us money and not drain the health care system?! not having crack heads!

[Death2Theft]

Having personal experience with a building in that area right before the Olympics a real estate "insider" knew that alot of low income housing in that area would try to convert to serve a different client base for the olympics. However the city promptly stopped this by putting 50k per room permits to make it not feasible for people to kick all the bums out and clean up the buildings.
So a guy comes around and just starts buying them up left right and center he had at least 10+ buildings. He then applies for permits for all the buildings, the city shits itself at the possibility of 3000+ bums on the street for the olympics. Then he sells them back to the city and promptly doubles or triples his net worth.
OK...I feel that I can finally introduce the 'Gridlock Plan for the DTES' tm.

Fucking level it.

Stay tuned, cause it gets better.

We have ourselves a little auction. We take all these guys for a walk down Hastings and the side streets and just bid off the building rights, building by building. City doesn't own it to sell to you? No worries. No one in their right mind is going to deny the check that you are now entitled to write for the building of Vancouver's newest up and coming neighborhood.

Here's the best part. Twenty, thats 20% of every check goes into a big fucking hippie fund. We use that to build social housing. Anywhere but the DTES. Sprinkled like rain through the entire Lower Mainland is a little social housing project house. It's not Vancouver's problem alone to deal with. Never was.

Now that we've financed it-without a single taxpayer dollar I might add, oh and created the biggest boon in BC's economy in recent years...hey Christy, imagine what you could do with 1% unemployment for 3 years? We've gotten to the heart of the problem:

Misery begets misery.

How the royal fuck do you expect drug addicts and hookers and alcoholics to pull their shit together when they are surrounded by the waste of human civilization?

You can't! Sample dialogue: "I may use crack, but look at thaat guy! He's fucked up. I'm nowhere near as bad as him"

You are what you eat folks. If you hang around fucking trash all day, guess what...chances are you're trash. If you hang around with the business elite, chances are its gonna rub off as well.

The real estate possibilities in the DTES are endless. Any chance I get, I go down there to look at what could be built. That building a few weeks ago with the 850 sq.ft apartments? I stood in front of that 2 years ago for an hour dividing and sub-dividing it into condos. I never thought to just build them as closets, but whatevs..different visions, right?

The point is, it would make New York's SoHo look like SoWhat?

Once you break up that huge group of people, you can start to attack the problems. Why do we poor millions of dollars into that neighborhood? Because its an insurmountable fucking task, that's why. We have dickless politicians polish up a pipe for crack heads, and an indoor alley for heroine addicts and think they are done until the next election cycle. There is nothing you can do when its xx number of homeless, another xx living in poverty and another god knows how many drug addicts all piled up on top of each other.

No wonder! Ever tried to treat a patient that has cancer, and heart disease and lost kidney function, and has Aids and has no money so he can't even eat properly? Where do you start? You can't.

Get them into smaller groups. Now we can have services that can reach our problem people. We can house 30 people. We can feed 30 people.

Yeah. It gets ugly. The DTES is going to ignite in riots. Politicians may not win elections. But it solves the problem.

That word, is gentrify.

[grey ghost]

Apparently, the crack pipe/spreading disease thing works like this: Some of the crack smokers get open sores on their lips, which may allow contaminated blood as well as saliva to get on the pipe. Then when another user smokes crack from the same pipe, they can potentially get a disease from the first one who contaminated the pipe.

Yeah, people can say what they want about how free drugs and things are helping out addicts, but I don't agree. There are other places in the world that have other ways of dealing with these people in a much more effective manner, if you know what I'm saying...

[El Bastardo]

http://i.imgur.com/BTv0I.jpg

[DsZ24]

I say round em all up, throw em on a ferry and dump them on some little island where nobody lives. Give them all the free needles they want and they can fight over whatever crack or heroine they managed to bring over.

I'm all for giving people a 2nd chance if they want it. Some people in the downtown east side have just fallen on bad luck and it would be nice to give them a full time job and turn their live around so they'll never end up down there again.

But it's all the ones who have no intention of turning their life around or contributing to society. Why should they get free handouts when all they're doing is killing themselves, while the average joe hard working person has to pay for everything themselves and gets taxed up the ass. I dunno something doesn't seem right to me.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i think you guys are over looking the fact that the number of junkies isnt finite.

new junkies are created everyday. you could become a junkie. your kid could be a junkie. your uncle, your friend. your classmate. whoever.

u can ship em all of or kill em all or whatever, but a small % of the population will become junkies and then what... kill them all again? lol why don't we just kill all humans then we'll have no problems.

junkies were all once normal people, none of them just woke up one day and said to themselves... "hey i think im gonna be a junkie".

becoming a junkie is like farting in public or burping at the dinner table... it's rude, you never intended it, but for whatever reason, you're doing it and you don't even remember how you got there. it's a slow and progressive thing.

how many potheads do you guys know? how many of those potheads do u think woke up one day and said to themselves, "imma be a pothead!"

how many of you have been so sloshed at a gathering, and at the beginning of the night you didn't even plan to drink? imagine it like that, but way more progressive. you don't feel it, you don't notice it.

it's like that potbelly you've got growing in your midsection. or those thunder thighs.
you didn't choose for it to happen, nor did it happen over night. but it's there.

killing all the fat people in the world ain't gonna get rid of fat people forever, ya get what i mean?

[Gridlock]

Having personal experience with a building in that area right before the Olympics a real estate "insider" knew that alot of low income housing in that area would try to convert to serve a different client base for the olympics. However the city promptly stopped this by putting 50k per room permits to make it not feasible for people to kick all the bums out and clean up the buildings.
So a guy comes around and just starts buying them up left right and center he had at least 10+ buildings. He then applies for permits for all the buildings, the city shits itself at the possibility of 3000+ bums on the street for the olympics. Then he sells them back to the city and promptly doubles or triples his net worth.

As a TOTAL unrelated item in this thread...

The whole rentals for olympics thing was total crap. A friend was looking for an apartment in North Van a month before the olympics. She says, its $300 or whatever a week until february, then its $800 a week, and then we sign a normal lease.

Um...:heckno: Get fucked was his answer.

A building I worked in dt was already set up as a long-stay hotel, so it would be easier to clear out for olympics. Had all these plans to make all these changes to accomodate it and...nothing. It wasn't worth keeping half the building empty for months waiting for a couple of weeks of high rent.

At least this guy you were talking about had a plan to make some money off of it.

[Jermyzy]

Global BC | Pilot program gives free alcohol to alcoholics in hopes of turning their lives around (http://www.globaltvbc.com/pilot+program+gives+free+alcohol+to+alcoholics+in+ hopes+of+turning+their+lives+around/6442549976/story.html)

"
A pilot program in Vancouver is doing something that will probably raise eyebrows: giving free alcohol to alcoholics.

Eight clients are involved in the program, chronic alcoholics who would otherwise normally cycle through jails or hospitals many times throughout the year.

The program provides wine, vodka and beer to participants in varying doses, free of charge, every hour for twelve hours.

In addition to alcohol, they are provided with food, clothing, shelter and medical care.

The program is run by Vancouver Coastal Health at a social housing building on Station Street near the Downtown Eastside. The building is managed by the Portland Housing Society, who also operates the safe injection site on Hastings Street.

For the past 15 years, client 56-year-old Wesley Delorme has been battling alcohol addiction to mouthwash.

“I might have three or four bottles of mouthwash a day,” said Delorme.

He said he drank the mouthwash to combat feelings of loneliness, but he began to notice troubling physical symptoms including memory loss and skin problems.

Vancouver Coastal Health says the program saves money and helps addicts turn their lives around.

“We are already paying for the adverse consequences of this (alcoholism),” said Dr. Ronald Joe of Vancouver Coastal Health.

“Our worst client goes to emergency every three days,” he added.

“When the cost on the system is being straddled with clients in this situation, we need a different approach.”

Several other residents at the social housing building are not happy that the program is being administered in their building’s common room.

“It’s frustrating to come home and not be able to use the resources that are available, like our computer lab or laundry facilities,” said resident Brody Williams.

About 80 residents live at the Station Street building.

Williams and some other residents are asking for the program to be re-located.

Mark Townsend of the Portland Housing Society said the space where the program is administered is designed for a variety of uses.

Delorme said if it wasn’t for the program, he “would probably be downtown buying Listerine again.”



Read it on Global News: Global BC | Pilot program gives free alcohol to alcoholics in hopes of turning their lives around "

[Shorn]

You guys need to understand drugs isn't a fixable problem. Every city on earth has drug users. Rather than trying to fix the impossible, we should concentrate on cutting our losses as a society through programs like this, through saving money from health care with clean paraphernalia and using that money to educate kids, teenagers, and young adults about the dangers of crack.
Don't you think that's the better approach as opposed to some of your retarded "throw them all in jail" plans? Do you even know how expensive it is to put someone in jail?

[SpuGen]

So, how do I go about getting this free alcohol?
I mean shit, my taxes are going towards it, might as well get my own share.

[dinosaur]

Several other residents at the social housing building are not happy that the program is being administered in their building’s common room.

“It’s frustrating to come home and not be able to use the resources that are available, like our computer lab or laundry facilities,” said resident Brody Williams.

About 80 residents live at the Station Street building.

Williams and some other residents are asking for the program to be re-located.

Mark Townsend of the Portland Housing Society said the space where the program is administered is designed for a variety of uses


That would be super annoying and I do like the fact that it impacts others.

Believe it or not, I have fairly liberal views with is comes to social assistance. It is there for a reason and there are thousands of people who NEED it and use it appropriately. An old friend's mother was on social assistance for years after she escaped an abusive marriage. She was a single mother of 3 and going to school. As soon as she graduated and became a nurse, she was off it and is now very successful. I imagine that if it was her in the situation, she would not be impressed coming home with her small children after school to be surrounded by a bunch skiddy drunks waiting for their next free drink.

We have a system built to help people...and I am okay with it to a point. I don't like it when the pendulum swings so far in the other direction and I don't think we need to supply these people with their vices.

[Death2Theft]

Sure every city but when the whole country chooses you as the drug dumping grounds......
You guys need to understand drugs isn't a fixable problem. Every city on earth has drug users. Rather than trying to fix the impossible, we should concentrate on cutting our losses as a society through programs like this, through saving money from health care with clean paraphernalia and using that money to educate kids, teenagers, and young adults about the dangers of crack.
Don't you think that's the better approach as opposed to some of your retarded "throw them all in jail" plans? Do you even know how expensive it is to put someone in jail?

[Everymans]

This thread inspired me to write a short story. Thanks guys Here's the idea(super duper rough shortened draft)

so we have this older crackhead living in east vancouver. one day he goes to a safe injection site to get his pipe and he meets his daughter from when he was a legit dude... She is now a crackwhore and she utterly hates him. Feeling disgusted, he tries to clean his life up. But his addiction and his past demons keep him coming back to the drug. But his urge to clean up his life and eventually clean up his daughters life pulls him through. Eventually his daughter forgives him and he gets a job. But the addiction continues and he loses the job and his daughter gets brutally beaten. While in the hospital, the father tries to talk to his daughter but she is again mad at him and disowns him yet again. In a fit of rage he again destroys his life. Haven't really come up with an ending. It has a lot of different paths it can take. I'd probably throw in a positive role model to aid the father as well as some "Street friends" for both characters that would influence them both negatively and positively. Maybe have the father getting better and forgetting about his daughter? As she doesn't want to be saved just yet?

[threezero]

Addiction is something one would never understand unless they have been through it themselves.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Gridlock]

This thread inspired me to write a short story. Thanks guys Here's the idea(super duper rough shortened draft)

so we have this older crackhead living in east vancouver. one day he goes to a safe injection site to get his pipe and he meets his daughter from when he was a legit dude... She is now a crackwhore and she utterly hates him. Feeling disgusted, he tries to clean his life up. But his addiction and his past demons keep him coming back to the drug. But his urge to clean up his life and eventually clean up his daughters life pulls him through. Eventually his daughter forgives him and he gets a job. But the addiction continues and he loses the job and his daughter gets brutally beaten. While in the hospital, the father tries to talk to his daughter but she is again mad at him and disowns him yet again. In a fit of rage he again destroys his life. Haven't really come up with an ending. It has a lot of different paths it can take. I'd probably throw in a positive role model to aid the father as well as some "Street friends" for both characters that would influence them both negatively and positively. Maybe have the father getting better and forgetting about his daughter? As she doesn't want to be saved just yet?

Difficult to write about what you don't know. Not every story needs to be "true", but needs a basis in something that relates. You'll find it difficult to capture the emotion of being a father(if you aren't), or a drug addicted user if you've never been.

[bloodmack]

i think you guys are over looking the fact that the number of junkies isnt finite.

new junkies are created everyday. you could become a junkie. your kid could be a junkie. your uncle, your friend. your classmate. whoever.

u can ship em all of or kill em all or whatever, but a small % of the population will become junkies and then what... kill them all again? lol why don't we just kill all humans then we'll have no problems.

junkies were all once normal people, none of them just woke up one day and said to themselves... "hey i think im gonna be a junkie".

becoming a junkie is like farting in public or burping at the dinner table... it's rude, you never intended it, but for whatever reason, you're doing it and you don't even remember how you got there. it's a slow and progressive thing.

how many potheads do you guys know? how many of those potheads do u think woke up one day and said to themselves, "imma be a pothead!"

how many of you have been so sloshed at a gathering, and at the beginning of the night you didn't even plan to drink? imagine it like that, but way more progressive. you don't feel it, you don't notice it.

it's like that potbelly you've got growing in your midsection. or those thunder thighs.
you didn't choose for it to happen, nor did it happen over night. but it's there.

killing all the fat people in the world ain't gonna get rid of fat people forever, ya get what i mean?

pot and crack are 2 whole different levels man.. pot doesn't chemically make you addicted to it unlike crack and I always plan to get sloshed :lol

[El Bastardo]

http://i.imgur.com/IHeZD.jpg

[spyker]

So, how do I go about getting this free alcohol?
I mean shit, my taxes are going towards it, might as well get my own share.

I saw that shit on the news a few days ago about free alcohol,they showed some worn out bum staggering up to a counter and some lady pouring cranberry juice into a glass,then pouring a good dose of Smirnoff Vodka into the mix........the drink was a big one too.The news also mentioned this is a safer alternative from what they use to drink.....mouthwash and Lysol.

Man this country is starting to get fucked,I'm just waiting for the day they start giving out free gasoline to the people who can't afford it.

[Gridlock]

I saw that shit on the news a few days ago about free alcohol,they showed some worn out bum staggering up to a counter and some lady pouring cranberry juice into a glass,then pouring a good dose of Smirnoff Vodka into the mix........the drink was a big one too.The news also mentioned this is a safer alternative from what they use to drink.....mouthwash and Lysol.

Man this country is starting to get fucked,I'm just waiting for the day they start giving out free gasoline to the people who can't afford it.

Welcome to socialism. It doesn't work.

[see.lai]

It's funny.
I remember going to downtown Seattle and the homeless actually looked like bums, while the ones in Vancouver are just druggies.

Shit happens.

[spyker]

Welcome to socialism. It doesn't work.

The smart people already know it doesn't work,but for the rest of the dumbass population in this city that think it does,the government has succeeded.

The government would rather piss off 20% of the population,than 80% stupid ones.Sucks there are more stupid people in this city,than smart ones.

[Everymans]

Difficult to write about what you don't know. Not every story needs to be "true", but needs a basis in something that relates. You'll find it difficult to capture the emotion of being a father(if you aren't), or a drug addicted user if you've never been.

Well on a personal level I've lived with both a crack addict and my father has struggled with alcohol addiction. I understand to a certain point what these people go through and why they do it. If I ever took this short story a step further I'd definetly offer my time to the SIS if they would let me.

[impactX]

I am surprised there's no free bawdy house yet.

[Death2Theft]

Needs to be more rapists for that to happen. Want to volunteer?
I am surprised there's no free bawdy house yet.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

pot and crack are 2 whole different levels man.. pot doesn't chemically make you addicted to it unlike crack and I always plan to get sloshed :lol

you missed my point

i wasnt comparing the substance.

i was comparing the level of use turning you slowly progressively into an addict.

i only used those examples so people could relate. i don't think anyone can relate directly to being a crack addict, they wouldn't be on rs reading, they would have already sold their computers for cash.

[Excelsis]

i think you guys are over looking the fact that the number of junkies isnt finite.

new junkies are created everyday. you could become a junkie. your kid could be a junkie. your uncle, your friend. your classmate. whoever.

u can ship em all of or kill em all or whatever, but a small % of the population will become junkies and then what... kill them all again? lol why don't we just kill all humans then we'll have no problems.

junkies were all once normal people, none of them just woke up one day and said to themselves... "hey i think im gonna be a junkie".

becoming a junkie is like farting in public or burping at the dinner table... it's rude, you never intended it, but for whatever reason, you're doing it and you don't even remember how you got there. it's a slow and progressive thing.

how many potheads do you guys know? how many of those potheads do u think woke up one day and said to themselves, "imma be a pothead!"

how many of you have been so sloshed at a gathering, and at the beginning of the night you didn't even plan to drink? imagine it like that, but way more progressive. you don't feel it, you don't notice it.

it's like that potbelly you've got growing in your midsection. or those thunder thighs.
you didn't choose for it to happen, nor did it happen over night. but it's there.

killing all the fat people in the world ain't gonna get rid of fat people forever, ya get what i mean?

If we get rid of the idiot mentality then there wouldn't be any fat/lazy/crackheads/addicts in the world, too bad this mentality took over a lot of countries, but if you change the way of thinking then you'll get somewhere. I'm sure people make lame excuses for eating fast food and getting high and whatnot, life isn't easy it's hard. If you think turning towards the easy things will help you, well... you have a long way to learn


pot and crack are 2 whole different levels man.. pot doesn't chemically make you addicted to it unlike crack and I always plan to get sloshed :lol

:suspicious:





and inb4 thread turns into ulic explaining his drug problems :troll:

[jasonturbo]

It's shit like this that makes me think (for a second..) that those lunatic republicans south of the border might just be on to something.

I work, I pay taxes, a lot of fucking taxes.

To know that my money is being used to support welfare single mothers (who shouldn't have got pregnant being that they did not have the means to support a child), fund detox and rehab for people with addiction problems, pay police salarys for cops that spend all day babysitting these fucking junkies, pay to house prisoners that are in and out of jail their whole lives and likely never pay any taxes... and most of all that my tax dollars get lost in the bureaucracy behind all this shit.

Nevermind foreign aid... @&#^!!

I hope every last one of those junkies OD's, you might be worried about them dying, but thats a one way street, when they do drugs, they don't give a shit about themselves, you, and certainly not your tax dollars.

They don't care enough to stay off the dope, fuck em, I don't care enough to save them from themselves.

Losers.

Edit: It's not fair for me to rant like this.. I haven't paid my taxes in 2 years, :fuckthatshit: (But really, before that I paid a lot.. and I will be paying for those two years whenever my loser accountant actually does her job, she's probably too busy smoking federally supplied rock)

[Phil@rise]

Driving is a privilege, abuse it they take it away. Life is a privilege, abuse take it away. Why the fuck should we as society support the weak when so few of us can support ourselves.
Kill the leaches to end it fast or ignore them and let em die.

[KingCrimson]

Many of these people addicted to severe drugs never wanted to be in this spot in the first place. Nobody chooses to be in this situation, but obviously some unanticipated circumstances have put them in this position; which is why we cannot just “kill them all”.
The Government claims that this plan is acted out for cost savings in the long run, because of the amount of money required to have people infiltrate the health care system.
This is a proactive approach in terms of preventing the spreading of diseases.

However, people who actually pay money through taxes, work hard, and contribute to society should procure the benefits from it. At the same time, these people of the DTES shouldn’t be neglected, we are all human beings.

Also, if heroin and crack are allowed, shouldn’t every other drug be legal? People smoking weed do not pose any harm on society, and they’re not demanding for things to be free. It is now legal for people to do such hard drugs, but when we do something less we must take a negative repercussion...

[Excelsis]

smoking crack and heroin is legal? :suspicious: